Demons in the Pentagon: The Collins Elite & The British Witch | 483

The following is the 4th hand production. What if the biggest secret in UFO history isn't alien? It's angelic. Or demonic. Or somewhere in that awkward in-between where rockets in ritual candles share shelf space. This week, we plunge headfirst into one of the strangest rabbit holes in modern conspiracy lore. The alleged "Collins Elite", a rumored faction inside the US government that supposedly concluded UFOs aren't extraterrestrials at all, but deceptive spiritual entities. We unpack where the story comes from, what believers claim insiders discovered, and why some say disclosure could be less about little green men, and more about theological shockwaves. But that's just the warm-up. Did Allied intelligence really brush shoulders with a British occultist during World War II? Was Alistair Crowley pitching magical countermeasures against Nazi symbolism? And how does rocket pioneer Jack Parsons' sex magic rituals tie into the birth of the modern UFO era? We explore the full-fringed narrative, demons disguised as aliens, ritual doorways, cold war psychic programs, and spiritual warfare in the Pentagon. While also laying out the documented history, the skepticism, and the very human tendency to mythologize the unknown. Is this a hidden chapter of national security history, or a masterclass in how conspiracies evolve when secrecy meets symbolism? Strap in. Its rocket's rituals, remote viewing, and revelation this week on hysteria 51. They say, "I'm disturbed." From city to setting an incredible hysterical panic spread. I think we're getting into a weird area here. "Will you please hold on not traiting!" "This is hysteria." "You can't handle the truth!" "Through, through, through." "Frame has gone." This is his Stereo 51. The truth is out there. "There's a lie!" But you won't find it here. "They're coming for you. Look, that comes one of them now." "Fuck them in hysteria, they should do another worldly episode of hysteria 51." Keep it down. I am trying to work on my sex magic. I have told you repeatedly, sex magic is not you drawing dicks on all my magic-thegathering cards. Some of these worth money you ask, hat? And now I touch them so they are worth more. You're welcome. "I don't think that's how that works." No one asked you to think. "Hey, you made him so you get what you get." And you made conspiracy, but so shut up. From the mouthful babes. On that note, we are broadcasting from the lower, lower fourth dimension, also known as Nash Ville. With some non-sex magic, I pray reaching out to parts unknown Colorado. Good prayer for this weekend. I'm too. "Good, Laura. He's Brent Hanley." "Boy, he is, brats." And, well, they're here. That's about all I can say, which makes this hysteria 51. "Yes, thank you. Welcome. We got an interesting one, a different one. People probably haven't heard of this one. The Collins one." I don't know if I have. Yeah, before when I brought it up to you and we started doing this, you're like, "I don't know what you're talking about." I'm like, "Well, we've touched on this before. Crowley and all that jazz and then rockets and symbolism and devil and jackparsons. You know, it's your normal afternoon, David. You know how good? The devil and jackpars? The devil behind the green door. That's some 70s porn analogy, is there? Anyway, we got some work to do. We need your, you got work to do. I got a little deer listener. We need your voicemail, 77369, 77277 again. 77369, 77277, get them in. And while you're getting stuff in, we're at hysteria51.com, W-I-R-D, and hysteria51.com. Weird news for our Weird Wednesday episodes. Get them in. We got some, I got to know in this week. I don't think former president, but it is James Polk, so we're working. We got some new stuff coming out. Are you ready to tackle the aliens in a metaphysical way? Are you ready, Kurtz? This isn't, yeah. Who lives in a spaceship above the sea? We're under the sea, really. You know, you're so, "extra-terristic." Yeah. There are nights in the UFO topics, feels like the normal amount of science fiction, you know. And then there's the normal, you know, the normal, not so normal, I might call it. You know, lights in the sky, advanced propulsion, secret aerospace breakthroughs. You know, especially in today's world, that's becoming our norm. But there's nights like this this week's episode. Nice where you look at the same phenomenon and someone brings across the table and they whisper, "They're not aliens, they're demons." And somewhere in the mouth of the Pentagon, someone allegedly agreed. And that's the story this week of the Collins Elite. We got the British witch, you know, we're fired on all cylinders. Alicircrali's wartime whispers. Jack Parsons said sex magic rocket rituals, which just rolls off the tongue. That might as well be a magic gathering card. The possibility, sir, that disclosure isn't extraterrestrial. It's the logical. You know, that's an interesting take when you know, it's not a far reach, I guess. And it's an interesting time in the UFO world because shit seems to be coming at us left and right. Don't you feel like even if you're not in this world, everyone's talking about it. The news is no longer snickering. People are talking about it. You know, the word disclosures being thrown around a lot. And I think we should do our due diligence. Don't forget the word disinformation. All these whistleblowers are coming out of the blue. You know, Lou Elizando, even in David Groschen, people like that, all these people, I don't see that much difference between them and a Richard Doatty. They all worked for the machine. They're all telling us what they say they've been allowed to tell us. You know, so I just pray that we keep that in mind. Don't you? If they come out and say right now, yep, they're all real. Don't you just then go, nope, that's not right because that's what we've been fucking and grain to feel. It might be getting more, yeah, more skeptical in terms of just believing anything. Every time something comes out, it is measured. The people, the whistleblowers are saying, well, I've been approved to say this. Or are you really whistle blowing? Or are you just telling what they're telling you to tell? That's a hard fucking pillow swallow. When is that? You know, and how do we tell? That's the point. I guess it's hard. It's a T-shirt and a venture on this. Anyway, that's something to think about as we're talking about this and as the world is turning out there and churning up all this information. But back to the Collins Elite. We're going to start at the core of this monster and what it all means. We're going to go to break. Let's take a break. Let's rinse this disinformation out of our palette. And when we come back, we're going to talk about this on a stereo 51. All right, sir. Break it down if you will. The Collins Elite. Well, first of all, the name sounds like a private club where the dress code is robes and the drink minimum is holy water. Right. Gross. Of course, he doesn't like holy water. He doesn't have the bot booze in it. Collins Elite, didn't you see them open for, who was it, the Alan Parsons project? Back in '85. Yeah. It was an ice quake. I hope that's right. Them and they both were opening with mastodon. I knew that's how it works. This concept comes primarily from Nick Redfern's book Final Events, where he claimed that inside the US government existed a small, deeply religious faction of intelligence and defense officials who came to a very specific conclusion. That being UFOs are not extra terrestrial spacecraft. Oh. They are. What, Brent? What are they? Well, they're just, you know, you're normal demonic manifestations. Right? Not metaphorical demons. No. Not symbolic demons. Actual, pretter-natural intelligences engaged in deception. Yeah. Yeah. Nick Redfern, like you said, that a lot of this comes from him. You know, he's that British author he talks about, you know, I'm not going to find out if I had playing object, cryptosology, bloodline of the gods, the real men in black, the big-foot book. Around since before we've been yeah, podcasting. He's the name of us needs in the world. Yeah. Yeah. This is an interesting one. Like you said, you know, they're not metaphorical demons. They're actual pre, they're demons. They're demons and it's the type of thing that really strikes a nerve with people. Yeah, you know, it's something, you know, it gives you, you know, a lot of people, you know, are religious, some aren't, some are, but no matter what, it gives you this whole feeling of, I knew at their evil, you know, it's, it's a ruse kind of thing, doesn't it, in that make you feel that way at least? Yeah, it gives a, some kind of substance a reason for all the bullshit, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. You're on it on and you go, yeah, that just fucking feels true and tracks, you know, of course it is, you know. Yeah, it, it feels true or to people of faith, especially, you know, and there's billions of people that that applies to. So yeah, of course, you know, you know, you can gain some traction. Well, absolutely. And according to this narrative, this group of people, they, they, they studied the abduction phenomenon and they saw parallels to possession. They saw trickster behavior, shape shifting entities, sleep paralysis overlap. Poltergeist like activity following encounters and messages that undermine Christianity. You know, that's, that's all over this. From that data set, they reached a theological conclusion. If that conclusion had been worshiped the robot, you all wouldn't be in this mess right now. Right. We'd all be in such a better place. See, you get it right. The theological conclusion wasn't the worship the robot. I was that this phenomenon is literal spiritual warfare. Um, let's pause. Let's think about what that means. If you're inside of national souls, what's that? Means they're souls or it's a war for our souls, you know, yeah. If you're inside of national security apparatus and you believe you're not dealing with extracural visitors, but with fallen angels, masquerading as aliens, I think the strategy shifts dramatically. Hopefully it does. You don't reverse engineer a demon. Hopefully you try to fucking contain it. You know, damn right. That should is easy. I taught them how easy it is and they ran with it. Right. It's so easy. And he's either way, uh, check the stock investments on salt. Yeah. Chalk. Yeah. Yeah. He's guiding us with his pencil is pincer throughout history. You know, but the difference is you're not opening communication channels. You avoid invitation. You know, if these are demons, smart and believe or say this is playing something. The why disclosure always stalls. Why investigations seem fractured? Why they they stop you? They get in your way. You know, they don't want you learning the truth because the truth is is is terrifying. It's terrible and something they probably can't control. And I would. I think that why do you think they'd want to stop people from, you know, being terrified? It seems to be very more because because people fall for the act. You know, they they believe that it is aliens when it really isn't. It really is is, you know, it's it's a ruse. It's, uh, yeah, it's a facade. So why, um, some of the insiders, they oppose it deeper engagement because that just deepens the hooks into us because we think the phenomena of spiritual deception that probing it further would be dangerous. You know, whether you know or not, whether you know that it is evil or you think it's, it's aliens and it is this evil entity. There's not a real good fucking outcome of that, right? You probe it so deep. But that's just sleep. That's right. What's the other side of this though? There is another side. Yeah, but there's no official declassified entity called Collins elite. No declassified. That's right. Yeah. That's true. Uh, there is no Pentagon charter for the Department of Demon affairs. Yeah. The, uh, D O D A. Yeah. At least allegedly, you know, until they decide, uh, you know what, no longer the Department of Defense, no longer the Department of War. Now it's the Department of Demon of Department of Homeland insecurity. This term originates in reporting based on anonymous source. Yeah, you don't say that's our, that's our fucking bread butter. Yeah. It's been repeated in modern UIP discussions, including references in testimony and leaked style documents. But repetition does not equal confirmation. That's true. Yeah. Skeptics argue this is what happens when anonymous intelligence and anecdotes grow legs. Yeah. Yeah. But believers counter with something uncomfortable. Yeah. And that, that being governments have studied weird shit before. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you know, right off a few, a few things. This project stargate remote viewing MK Ultra, you know, the behavior manipulation, LSD experiments on willing and unwilling, you know, participants, um, MK often, chemical and biological research on our own fucking people. Yeah. Weird probably isn't what the word we should have used for quasi evil. I don't know if quasi is the prime. My phone date, it gets my phone. New I was on to something. You got them right. Well, you hit it. That's great. Message. These are not. You're see, sorry. Want to try again. Uh, they're not conspiracy myths. These are declassified history. Those things really fucking happened. And we're only speaking on those parts that have been declassified came to the, the light because of FOIA requests and, and, and, uh, paper dumps, so to speak, you know, um, it, it's, it's disgusting. The amount of people that have been harmed by, look, look at Plum Island, Lyme disease, fucking the Nazis that we brought here for, for warfare research rockets, Verna van Braun. How many fucking Jewish people died so that we could go to the moon? It was spoils of war. You know, this is, this is evil incarnate that we, we made excuses for for the military industrial complex. So the CIA was filling, willing to fund psychic spies and, uh, poisoning our own people. Um, you know, but psychic spies staring at coordinates to view Soviet installations isn't really absurd that some officials entertain spiritual interpretations of UFO encounters. I don't think so. No, not at all. You don't you think that they're going to be looking at every, every possible outcome? You know, that's what we pay them for with our taxes. These days, I would have to think it's more prevalent too. And that they would probably kind of fit fit whatever they find into their narrative. That's, that's the thing people do these days is they find evidence and then they fit that into their narrative as opposed to the other way around calling this these things gray zones is probably, you know, a little light, but, uh, you know, the Collins lead hypothesis, this lives, you know, right nicely in that gray zone. But let's, let's widen that lens. Yep. You got World War II. Um, outside of your normal shit, you know, the not season, the occult symbolism was something that went hand in hand. Runes, mythic area and mysticism, esoteric aesthetics. This is shit that like, I think it kind of gets overlooked. They were looking into weird shit. They were throwing anything at the wall and seeing what's stuck. And look, you know, they, you know, oh, what you got over there, Nazi. Oh, it's the fucking spear of destiny that pierced Christ side. Why do you have that? I don't know. We're just crazy. This is the shit that they were doing in the names of war. It's fucking, it's, it's wild. And while Hollywood inflates Nazi cultism into this Indiana Jones level, you know, artifact hunts. There's this documented evidence of certain Nazi figures romanticize mythic symbolism. It was a way for them to be like, Oh, we're the chosen people. And we need to figure these things out. They're, they're rallying points. Yeah. They're, they're objects that you can have a goal towards and, and it's a standard, it's like the golden eagle with row. Right. It's a standard they could follow and rally behind. Right. And into that landscape, except some important and out their individuals, these, these Nazis and others that they were allowed to look into really whatever the fuck they wanted. You know, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the Glocka. Yeah. Yeah. I'm traveling things like that. And guess what? Life, human life was a commodity that they could just deal with. You know, it didn't matter. It, you know, it was, um, it was a mean, that's changed. They, they did pressure chamber tests and things that we go, well, now we knew about, you know, you know, getting the bins and, and, and, and, you know, using outtuned sicknesses and things like that. How do they get to these things? They tested on human beings. Mm hmm. You know, we're talking about some, of these things are demonic. Me and a lot of that demonic was right there in our fucking out, you know, in our face in anyway. Um, we're gonna talk about real demonic stuff though possibly and, and a lot of other out there. Shit, let's go to break. Let's get to Palli Clinsor because I'm going on a fucking limb here. We come back. We're gonna enter into some weird characters that's after the break on a stereo 51. All right. So here is the point in everybody's favorite occult timeline. You got your bingo card. Yeah, break it out because here he comes the one the only Alistair Crowley or you can ask you the music Kyle. No, no, no, we can't afford that shit. He might be dead, but his, his, his estate is not exactly sorry. Go ahead. Fucking Sony or whoever probably owns it. The double we're we're getting there. Give it time. So Crowley was an English occultist ceremonial magician founder of Thalema and a man who treated scandal as a competitive sport. I miss him dearly. He practiced ritual magic roadie. Just skim over the roadie. Road extensively about sex magic and believed in contacting higher intelligences through ceremonial practice. Yes, sex magic. Fuck yeah. So let's, let's talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In Crowley system, ritualized sexual acts were not just indulgence. Oh, no. They they fulfilled a manage of to of different capabilities. They were metaphysical tools. Yeah. Energy manipulation, intent projection and cosmic signalling. Yeah. And he believed that orgasm directed properly could serve as a quote magical catalyst to influence spiritual realm. That's interesting because that's yeah, I just used it as a catalyst to bring on shame. You know, post that clarity and all, but you know, fire me for me to fucking tell what to do anyway. My mom taught me to shame hate myself shame. For you through the street naked shame, shame, shame. It's like manifestation culture, but with more incense and less Pinterest, incest incense. Thanks for the clarification. Fuck me. Like what I am right now. Insexual. Oh, incensed. I get. Yes. Yeah. Sorry. Now here's where it intersects with intelligence. Yeah. Crowley had documented interactions with British intelligence figures. Yep. You know, James Bond would bone anything. Why not? All right. Right. So many lived in in some weird buildings that maybe people played the elevator game and got killed and lost in the fucking water tank and scuff. Sorry. That's a cheese. Oh, remember that. You know, anyway, he lived in the fucking he lived in the what was it? What's the name of that? The on skid row, the sea soul host. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, sorry. Geez. Some historians believe he may have provided informal assistance during wartime propaganda efforts. Yeah. He certainly claimed to have influenced the V for victory sign suggesting it had a cult power to counteract a swastika symbolism. Yeah. Yeah. When he puts it on his lips and sticks his tongue out of. And that that is documented as a claim. Yeah. I dig it. I dig that. Yeah. But US intelligence formally did did US intelligence formally consult him as a magical strategist. You know, when the powers of the probably it's not a far cry. You know, the British was no. What, you know, he was here. I don't think it would be far. You know, he was he was piling around with, you know, Parsons and stuff like that. I don't think that that's far far stretch to make. There's a there's no declassified document proving that. But, you know, the rumor persists. Yeah. The British witch story emerges from this haze. So the idea that allied intelligence facing Nazi occult symbolism might have consulted British occult practitioners for countermeasures. Why not? You might as well fight all fronts. Skeptics say Crowley loved mythologizing hints. That's what he called it. What is the best of twice daily? Sorry. Now, believers say that intelligence agencies sometimes explore unorthodox ideas quietly. Yeah. And spoiler alert, they do. Yeah. And not always quietly. Yeah. We'll get into my thoughts on that. But yes, they do. Yeah. Now we bring in the rocket man. Yeah. Mr. Jack Boom Boom Parsons. Boom Boom might not have been the best name considering. Anyway, co founder of JPL, the job, propulsion laboratory. This dude was a pioneer of solid fuel rocketry. A devoted telemight, telemight, I've heard it pronounced many limits. Telemight. Meaning he participated in ritual magic. He fucked things and dotted open doorways. Um, he conducted the infamous Babylon working rituals in the mid 1940s, along, sorry, alongside one cat named L Ron Hubbard. That L Ron Hubbard, not all the other L Ron Hubbard's. The L Ron Hubbard. Um, the Babylon working and we've done an episode of Jack Parsons. If you want to know more, you can, you can listen to that. But you know, some of its things, um, he, the Babylon working was intended to invoke a divine feminine archetype into physical manifestation. He believed Parsons believe that these rituals were spiritually significant and cosmically consequential. So that's what was known that he was doing now under the French hypothesis. He did conduct sex magic rituals intended to open a door. Within a few years, the modern UFO way begins in Ernst, you know, Kenneth Arnold's 1947 signing, Roswell, post-war flaps. The whole late 40s, early 50s, everyone's seeing shit, you know, Kenneth, I saw it was skipping like a, like a saucer on water and there we have it, you know, raise all that, the usual suspects. There were some theorists argue ritual plus rocket science plus Cold War secrecy equals interdimensional breach. Um, did Parsons literally open a portal like he was trying to? Well, there's no scientific evidence of that that we're privy to. But here's why the theory sticks. Parsons worked on cutting edge aerospace. He practiced ceremonial magic. He associated with individuals who would go on to found new religious systems. Scientology anyone, please don't sue us. And the timing overlaps with the birth of modern UFO era. The narrative gravity is strong there, you know, it's he was firing on all soldiers, so to speak. He had his, his hooks in all of that. Now let's, let's saying that let's return to the Collins lead a little bit. So if insiders believe the cold experimentation had inadvertently engaged something spiritual. And if they believe that something was masquerading as alien, then their caution makes sense within that worldview. You know, we don't know what this fucking is. Be careful. Believers argue that the phenomenon behaves less like a species from another star and more like folklore. The old, you know, the normal stuff, trickster archetypes, symbolic communication, parasocheological manipulation, moral inversion, those, all those themes. And that mirrors spiritual deception narratives more than it mirrors astrophysics when you when you think about it. Skeptics respond with, you know, cognitive science, human perceptions flawed. See paralysis explains some abduction motifs, cultural imagery influences, uh, encounter reports, you know, what's going on? Well, that's what we see. Everyone starts seeing something all of the sudden, it's all over the place and myth evolves with technology. You know, I mean, evil times people saw fairies in the 50s. They, they saw spacemen, little green men, little gray men, you know, the, the, the, the, the graves with the big eyes. Cultural zikai determines what we see so to speak. Don't you think? Yeah. Yeah. So now we see demons, we see, you know, reptilian shapes through things like that. Same-brown different cultural costume. You know, it's, it's, it's, what it's wearing. You know, that's the razor's edge, you know, so to speak. Are you full entities adapting their appearance across air? Is that, no, that's that kind of the question. Are humans adapting their interpretation. Well, you can say either or because, you know, that's kind of a double edged sort of its own because our people saying that they saw the same things because they heard it. So that was what was in their brain or is that what's really coming here? And so that's what they saw. And that's why we have flaps of things that are similar. I would have to think we should err on the side of sociologically people coming up with this and interpreting it. Right. Assuming that it's not real. Now with disclosure, who knows, you know, but you're right. And that makes sense. Or at least to allow you to, if you did see something, what is in the cultural zeitgeist, so to speak, helps you put words to it. You know, a lot of times when you talk about these people, how do you describe something you've never seen? You know, we have, you go back on the time people say, oh, it's a fire because they don't understand what a spaceship was. Well, go get a, you know, a bushman person and put them inside of a fucking airplane and tell them to describe the buttons. How the fuck did they do it? You know? Yeah. Yeah. Now you take us and put us if it's true in a ship that might be alive that runs off of thought and traverses space using mercury drives and and shit like that. How the fuck do you even know what you're looking at? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we, we're at a point where we have grown our imaginations so much that we could try to put stuff like that into words. But of course, you could probably say that at any point in history, you know, like, we are the most advanced, we've been to this point. So therefore, and so yeah, it has to do, which is why I think there's why we use it. You're in exactly. I think that's why the similar things come in and we were, we, we described things the way we do. You said, imagine, well, now imagine, just imagine that the Collins elite hypothesis is correct. The thought process here, you know, or experiment. Imagine a small faction inside the defense community, concluded the phenomenon is actually preternatural, you know, out there beyond, you know, even our wildest dreams. Imagine they advised against certain research. Imagine disclosure is restrained, not because of reverse engineered craft and we're hiding that, but because public theological collapse would follow. If you go down that pathway of thinking, implications are staggering. You know, it wouldn't mean that the greatest, greatest deception in history is not technological, but spiritual. It means governments quietly recognize metaphysical reality, you quietly, you know, it would mean that science and theology collided between or behind classified doors. And here's the thing. I said I wanted to read references. If I was in power and I was setting up, you know, the, you know, the checks and balances, I wouldn't make sure no matter how unlikely this subject, we had people looking at every possibility for everything. Think tanks, people paid just to disagree with me and everyone else so that all avenues are covered. If you say that this is science, I'm going to tell you it's a fucking demon. And if you tell me it's a demon, I'm telling you it's science. And if it was explained, well, no, it wasn't because isn't that how you, you know, you, you, it's far fetched to believe the government powers to be don't do that. You know, I would think that they would. And you know, I would hope that they do that. So they cross all the teeth and not all the lowercase J's. I fucking would want that. You know, if I was in power, don't you feel like that is the way that you, you cover yourself? Yeah. Yes. I do. But the, the problem you run into in my opinion, this would be speculation, of course. But I would think that you get pushback for a number of different ways, not least of all would be the limits of imagination of politicians and people in charge of defense, period. Well, maybe, but like if you and I could sit here and come up with like, Oh, it's this or this or this or this. Let's try to, you know, they don't think that way. Well, that's why I said, think, so I think you have to bring in other people. You have to have people pushing back. You also have to like know what you're looking for in that I, these people are so out of touch with reality that politicians, I'm talking about people in charge of shit. I, they would just be like, Oh, I've got a, a step brother who's cousin, a dabble's in this shit. Let's bring him in. And it's like, yeah, that's not a, that's just somehow. Well, but then the other thing is that they run into who's going to pay for it. Right. Well, and then they're like, money, it's not going in my pocket. So we can't put a God. I hate these fucking. I give you that. But then you know, I had Max Brooks on and Max Brooks works in think tanks for the government where all they do is come up with why the government is wrong and what other things could be. You know, okay, Max books, Brooks is great. What qualifications does he have besides being an author? So well, in the son of Mel. Well, he's so he's not, everyone thinks, oh, he's a comedian, but he's highly educated. And he, and he is a researcher of ancient weaponry and things like that. And he did a huge study on the way that the government handles things like what do you do in times of, of, you know, civil unrest or, or, or, or think, when he wrote his book on the, the, the, guide to the zombie apocalypse, you know, that was he was, it was written exactly how the US government writes like how they would done it. And it got their attention of like holy shit. And they realized this take zombies out and enter. And it works for some of the other things. And so, you know, he, and he was on those shows like, ancient weaponry and things like that because he, he just, he studied history. So, okay, but he talked about there are people. There are accountants and plumbers and rocket scientists and theologians and stuff that are in these, these tanks that have shown aptitudes and things that will cover all bases of thinking kind of thing. I, I'm not trying to be a dick about it. I, it's a legit question like, because you, you would guess maybe it's a, a product of today's administration, but just having like, you know, you or me, a, a podcaster on to be the thing. Well, I don't think they do that. They're looking for people with education and things like that, you know. Well, when, when, yeah, what we're talking about with this, probably maybe I, I don't know, but today's administration would definitely not. I'm just saying that it's nice to hear that he has some kind of, well, he's got a, he's got a bachelor's degree in history. I studied, he said history warfare, things like that, you know, so it's not, I'm not trying to be a dick to, no, I don't think that there's any difference. If someone is a fucking, you know, a shit shoveler and they come up with a great idea, I think that's invaluable. You know, and hopefully the government is, you know, they certainly spend the money. So they might as well be looking into things like that. Yeah, it is. It's, I just have to think the process is very hard to vet over who's just, well, that's because it's not always the government. These things take, say, well, you know, it's like the Stanford Institute technology and Yale and things like that. They're probably not just with the government, you know, but they're with all sorts of sheep, looking companies and things like that. You know, take out the government. Don't you think that they're probably used in other, another, you know, avenues in education and in, in, you know, the finance and things like that, they, they probably dabble in things like this. So you're telling me there's a chance. You got them right. David, we're getting off in tangents here. Once you break down, imagine the opposite. Give us the other one. I break down. Stop crying for a minute and, uh, god damn it. You went into your, I don't believe it because they're all evil and fuck them. Which I can't, it's hard to argue with that. It's hard to argue with that the way I think you, David. We want the opposite of this, right? We know it's hard to imagine it. Let's, let's do a thought. We can, we can imagine reality. Uh, so if we imagine the Collins Elite story is folklore, born from, like we said, anonymous sources, Cold War secrecy, the human tendency to mythologize power structures and the intoxicating appeal of cosmic. Yeah. In that version, this is a case study in conspiracy evolution. Yeah. We have four stages, stage one ambiguity. I don't could be maybe not. Stage two anonymous insider claim. Yeah. actor Elisando. Hello, stage three. Sorry, it's Luis. - Luis, I know. - A zon. - Hector is his name. - Is that the guy that was in Pretty Woman? - I don't know, though. - Some of the cop movies. - I don't know. - Stage three, repetition in alternative media. - Yeah. - Yeah. - This would be what, like Twitter retweets and stuff. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Stage for us. - Yeah, right. Yes. - Stage four, structured mythology with main factions. Then we start getting into the, quote unquote, details of everything, right? And somebody knows all the power structure and what all the factions are fighting about and how they're doing it. - See, the thing David is, here's where this whole land. There is document evidence that intelligence agencies explored and explore strange research they have to. There's document evidence that Crowley interacted with influential figures. There's document evidence that Parsons blended rockets and ritual. There's no document evidence that we've been privy to of a formal demon hunting pendant on Kabul. But here's the truth that matters. To me, when humans encounter the unknown, they interpret it through belief and governments are made of humans. - Mostly. (laughing) - We hope. - I'm with him. - Yeah. - So whether the consulate existed as a named faction or simply as a cluster of like-minded individuals, the possibility that that worldview influence policy is not absurd when you think about it. The link from religious official to secret demon council is where evidence thins. But the UFO, the story persists because it fuses everything we love. Like UFOs, cult sex magic, we all love that. (laughing) - More time espionage, Pentagon secrecy, apocalyptic stakes, which are always high, it seems like. - Delicious. - Marricate and Ashley Olsen direct to video movies of the 90s. - What? - No, for my money, their guest spot on Hanging with Mr. Cooper is the pinnacle of human possibility. - What the fuck is wrong with you? - Word of advice. Just let it go. The episode was called Hanging with Michelle and he will die on this hill. - I hope he dies on some hill soon, but that's- (laughing) - Yeah, I don't even have to be a hill by climb. - Anyway, I mean, he kinda, he's kinda onto something though. I mean, the world as we're learning is run by pedophiles. - That's right. - So that makes sense. - Hey, all right, back to the UFO and sex cult rumors. Just me to pedophiles, pedophiles, there are- - Rumors. - This whole world of this, the rumors are irresistible. And until the phenomenon is fully understood, if it ever is, stories like this will continue to bloom in the classified dark. We're bearing a lot of, are there demons in the Pentagon? Maybe not the literal horned boardroom since maybe, but there are competing worldviews shaping how the unknown is handled. There absolutely is. And sometimes the most revealing part of the mystery isn't what is in the sky. It's once in the mind of people watching it. You know, why does this persist? Because it is something that we don't understand. And when you don't understand it, you fill the gaps. - Right. Could it be that these things are from another universe if they're real or another planet or galaxy or time or a different dimension? Sure. - Could it be us from a very distant future coming back? - Sure. - Could it be the devil? Well, if you believe that all that is real, absolutely. If you believe that. So what's the difference to someone than saying that they're from another planet? A lot of people don't believe that there's any life out there, not a fucking microbe outside of us in this entire vast universe. And they will die on that hill. And if you come forward and they land, it's easier for them to believe and feel that it is demons than it is for it to be aliens. - They fit the evidence to their narrative. That's what would happen. And what is it? - God created these two. - What's a demon? Could demons just be from another dimension? You know, and how can we believe anything that they say if they are from another dimension? - That's true. - See, like what we behooves them to help us if they are aliens or demons or anything. That's the grand equalizer there. What the fuck is in it for them? When have we ever found another peoples and went, we're gonna help them? You guys are, do you wanna blanket? How about some religion, you know? - Geez, yeah. - And it is terrifying to think that, you know, if these things were and they opened a door and what came through is a demon and he goes, you know, these guys think that these things come from the sky. Well, let's just say that we are. - Oh yeah, they can take that and run with it like crazy. - Yeah. - Because we would, that's why it's so hard to easy for us to fucking believe that, right? - Yeah, they're playing on fears, they're playing on emotions. And that is so easy to manipulate, especially with, you know, people who are not critical thinkers, people who are easily manipulated, even though they don't think they are. - But even sometimes critical thinkers can't get out of their own way. That's why the established science, pseudo science, every science is pseudo science until it's proven. Why do so many scientists just allow anything that doesn't fall into their narrative? Science, you know, scientific method be damned. - Right. - Yeah, that's one thing I never- - Hey, we're learning that we can use sound to levitate items and they said that they used that and they ancient fucking blasts from her. No, they didn't go to hell and die. Hey, conspiracy theorist. - They said, and it has written in every known fucking land that there are structures underneath the pyramids this huge labyrinth, bullshit. Well, then that we use science and lidar and all the shit and we see it, bullshit, you liin' sacks. I fuck, we've already figured it out. It's a goddamn fucking, you know, burial chamber. Now, of course there's no fucking bodies in it, you know, and it's all a fucking, works like a giant fucking tuned to 440 hurt fucking energy pump. But don't let that, it's for dead bodies. You know, it's hard to believe that people have the best interest for us in thought when they won't allow any critical thinking to take place if it doesn't fall within their own preconceived notions. - I think we also have to take into consideration that- - Talk a lot about the point. - This is what pyramids there, sorry. - This is what we are being told as well. - Right. - And a good point. - In reality, right? How many people in the world actually hold this view? I would say short of a handful. - Yeah. - But this is what the media grabs and then uses to rile us up. That's what we see. So it might be much less of an issue than we're being told it is. And that's something that- - Look at the things that DARPA we have to deal with. - Just look at the things that we have on our own world. You know what they had the first fucking driving, self-driving car, 1984. They created the internet in the 1960s. You know, GPS had Einstein driving the car. - There you go, you know. - Remote control. - They only say they're 20 years ahead of us minimum. And that's what we're allowed to know. - Yeah, I've heard that. Yeah. - I mean, you know, who knows exactly, but I'm sure it's gotta be a little bit at least. - Well, I mean, some more than, I mean, literally those are things that they literally, 1984 we know and we've just done getting driving cars. Gee, I mean, it goes on and on and on and on and on. And weapons that see through, they had that see through, look at that. What's the most advanced plane we have? You know, the Nighthawk and shit like that. You know, that's probably why fucking Paul Benowitz was driven insane because they were working on that. And they was easier for them to say aliens than it was to say we're working on stealth technology. Let's kill a man. Let him fucking not kill, but you know, drive himself insane. The things that the government hides, think about the little bit that we know that comes out, you know, what are they hiding that we don't know? It is staggering and it's sickening. - And it could play into the sightings people have. You know, like triangles and stuff. Could be just-- - Oh, absolutely. - I bet you fucking, Lockheed Skunk works created a fucking tick-tax-based ship 30 fucking years ago that we're seeing. - It's all art. - It's probably art. They're not saying that they're not those from other places, but for fuck's sake. Or maybe they can hear and they said, "Wow, these people, we're not gonna give them all our technology, but we're gonna allow them to, these fucking, you know, monkeys here that, you know, they can make okay ships. Let's have them fucking work and do some things. Who knows? Who knows? I'm fucking cleaning. Crazy shit here. I'm just, because we don't fucking know. And the money is in secrets. - So maybe it's manipulating idiots, i.e. the general public. - Yeah, you and I, including us. - Yes, exactly. - Now, I did wanna also point out one more thing that the label of demon carries a lot of connotations with it, mostly theological. in order for, if you ticket with a theological sense in mind, you're gonna have to square that God and the devil and angels and demons exist at all before you should believe that. Right. To me, I don't. I think it's all man-made, it's all come up with. And- But what if they have what if these things came and they go, holy shit, I don't have to believe. And you know, faith, because it's true because they're there. You know, who knows? Maybe the government knows they're there. I don't know, you know. Meaning, what I'm saying is that- Yeah, you have to- People hear demon and they think, you know, something with religion. This, no, I think this is meaning demons of the religious variety. Not demons is in. It's somewhere from this is literal satanic fallen angel demons is what this is about. Right. Which, which to me just completely shuts the door on it right there because I don't think that shit exists. And that's exactly- I could believe that- Exactly what they want. No, I would be more willing to believe that these are extra-dimensional or interdimensional beings that saw our mythology and took that as an opportunity to manipulate people into thinking that's what's doing this. That's what's good. It's a great smokescreen for that. Yeah. It would be very easy to manipulate people taking that. That's what I would be more willing to believe in this scenario. Like otherwise there's tons of fucking hoops you have to jump through in order to believe that or with the demons and all that or very few. That makes sense. They just come- yes, or very few. They just come and you learn that that's the truth. You know, who know? I understand. I see what you're saying. It could be either way. You know demons, aliens, you know, little green men, little blue men, little fucking, you know, quasars, you know, sentient farts from the nomad constellation. I don't fucking know, you know. Welcome to the archive in between. What you've learned this week is we have no fucking clue in the world is. Well, I love this kind of- No, I love this kind of- I love this kind of stuff where mythology and aliens meet and conspiracy. Like this is one of those real ripe fruits in the world that we deal with here. But the nice thing is- It's got a lot of fun stuff to do. Because you can speculate to no end. That's basically all you can do, you know. But just remember, David, you don't have to believe in the devil. He believes in you. I hope he does. Thank you, John. John Constantine. All right. Well, that's enough for this week. We're going down some avenues that we don't even understand what she was wanting to say. Hello. Welcome to the stereotype. We want to- So yeah, nation, let us know. I'd love to hear. Jump on History Nation. Go to Facebook. History Nation or go to Reddit. Join the subreddit. History 51 on there. Discord. Let us know. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Where you fall? Could you see this going either way? We'd love to have some fun civilized discussions on this. And don't forget, you call them in 7, 7, 7, 3, 6, 9, 7, 2, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, get us your voice mails. And if you are a demon call, let us know. Tell us the truth. Let us know your plans, your thoughts, your, your wants and desires. We're listening. The lines were so much. From East of the Rockies. It comes. Be awesome. So there you go. Hello, you're on the air. Yeah. Yeah, you're on the air. You're on the air with two guys. You don't know shit. That's it. I've been Brent. I've been David. He's been conspiracy by. Goodbye. Stay stupid meat sex. It was terrible. It is terrible. I'll never get over it as long as I live. That's it for another edition of History 51. We'll be back next week with yet more of the unexplained, the unexplored and the unheard of. Oh, if it's unheard of, how are they now about it? Anyway, if you want to suggest a topic, give us your thoughts or just make fun of conspiracy bot. That's my favourite. Join us in our Facebook discussion group, History a Nation. Just log on to Facebook and search History a Nation. Or you can always tweet us at History 51 pod. You've been listening to a fourth hand joint.