Demond Williams Jr. vs. Drew Mestemaker: Who’s the Better NFL Prospect?

[MUSIC] >> Part seven of our seven part series is here. It's building the board, the 2027 quarterback class. And today we got an interesting one. Demand Williams, Jr. from Washington versus Drew Mestemaker, transfer from North Texas to Oklahoma State. And there's just 287 days. I had to look down on my notes to make sure 287 days until the NFL draft you good match. >> I'm Gray Man, all my favorite beat tuck. This episode is presented by EA Sports College Football 27, where you can engineer your team the way you want. And if you want the full football experience, try the MVP bundle. I'm already getting pressured from the boys in this house. We gotta get it, we gotta get it, right? Well, I'm gonna cave. You get College Football 27, Madden NFL 27 plus Deluxe Edition rewards in both games to help you go from campus legend to NFL superstar. Make your rise with the MVP bundle available now. Conditions and restrictions apply. C-E-A.com/games/e-a-sports-college-football/college-football-27/game-disclaimers for details. We tried to pair up all these quarterbacks and have some kind of length, right? It was like arch versus Dante, QB1, QB2, who's gonna be QB1 in the very beginning. It was saying versus car, the blue blood programs, red shirt sophomores last year, second year starters. We did seller sores, be very similar type of quarterback prospect in terms of the mobility, still raw, developing. Throughout it, there's been kind of a tie that binds. I can't find one with Mestermaker and Demon Williams. I was like, how did you do it this time? How do you link these two? I mean, Mestermaker is transferring from North Texas to Oklahoma State, was a red shirt sophomore last year, similar to car and sayon. But it's a transfer opportunity that he earned through a sensational season at North Texas. He's a bigger pocket passer. We'll get into all the nuances of his game. And then you got Demon Williams, who's been in Washington for a few years and has continued to develop and he's mobile and he's undersized and he's all the things that you would expect from an explosive dual threat quarterback, right? But they happen to be their last two remaining in terms of quarterbacks. This makes 14 now, Metsch. And we'll get into the grades at the end, see if we have any surprises, where these two will wind up on our board of 14 quarterbacks that we're doing in this building, the board. This series has been awesome, man. It's been fun. So let's just dive right in, right? Yeah, let's go. I ask you this question every time we start and I'm going to do it again for the seventh straight time. You got done with Mestermaker, you got done with Williams. What was your biggest takeaway? It is, it were this deep in the series and they are very different players. So I had a hard time coming up with a big picture one. I'm going to focus on Demon Williams Jr. and kind of give away some stuff here, but this is what I'm going to go with. Demon Williams Jr. to me is a class example of a quarterback who I love watching play at the college level, but I'm not sure how this translates to the NFL. I'm different than you, man. Really? Good. That's great. My biggest takeaway is if there's a heat map, if there's a heat map for all these quarterbacks, it's a lot more red and it's hotter than I thought. I had an expectation that I was going to be similar to you when I went and popped in the tape. We've both watched him on TV. We've both prepared for different games. We've studied enough to understand who he is, but when I sat down and watched his tape after watching 12 other quarterbacks, I've got him in a different place than I expected. So let's just dive in. Wow. Let's go. I do, man. I do. I can't wait. Strengths. Take it wherever you want. I mean, he's an unbelievable runner. I think he's electric with, I mean, with his ability to extend plays. He's twitchy. He's a former championship four by 100 high school sprinter. You see that on tape. He can. He's not only has he had a naturally talented runner in terms of the quickness speed, ability to make people miss. He's instinctive. I like how he hugs his blocks on design quarterback runs. And then again, extends plays really well and makes some highlight real type plays when he has to go off schedule and make an off platform throw. So it's the mobility to me. Yeah. For demand, let's just give, let's give a little background, right? Five, five, 10 and a half is what was measured by scouts in the spring, 195 pounds. Looking at him. Manning passing Academy. I would say probably he's over 200, but we'll, we'll see. But he's in that range. Right? I've got him listed at four six, like, get out of here. He's conservative 40 times. No. Yeah. I mean, he's evolving conservative, huh? Yeah. Oh my gosh. He's a flat out burner and compared to Mestemaker. He's a four eight. Like, just, no, he's, he's in the, I'll be surprised. If he ever runs a 40 that if he's not in the four four range of things, I said a few years for Williams, Jr. at Washington, this would be his third year making it a few years. Shows up in 2024 is a true freshman. He runs up playing in a few games, he's a four star, we're coming out of Arizona, played and he actually played it in all 13 games in 2024 is a true freshman. Started two of them completed 78% showed a lot of promise, 944 passing yards. Just one interception compared to eight touchdowns and then took over as the full time starter this past season, right? Started all 13 games over 3,000 passing yards, 25 touchdowns, just eight picks. So ran for 611 and 6 scores. So that's kind of the backdrop on, on Williams, okay? Here's what, here, like the mobility is obvious. I, I equated it to, I'm equating as we're in the process of building. I'm equating his athletic traits as essentials, focus it and I, everyone gets so pissed off when you say, oh, he's a wide receiver, he's, I'm not sit, he's a guy. He's a quarterback and if you hear me out on all of this, like I'm hiring. I will say the same thing, by the way, I'm not, let's not get this twisted. Oh, by, like there, he is an absolute, I'm saying when he takes off running or he's scrambling, I view him almost as like a slot receiver that, that caught the ball in, in a little bit of space. I agree. I agree. I think we're running back with same thing. Not like this four, three guy on the outside, but he's a four, four speed runner, electrifying it. You know, like the elusiveness, the sharp cuts, just a feel as an open field runner. He has a great feel. Okay. There were a couple of times where you, I thought to myself, is he going to be able to turn the corner here in the next thing you know, he's sprinting down his side. He's got this gear, man. Yeah. So there's that. But here's as a passer, why I was like, huh, there's a little more here than I expected. Big trigger, lot of energy on the intermediate throws. Yes, there are, there are throws that he makes that are off target and, and they're not where they need to be. But then I kind of studied, and it's, there's, sometimes it's on the run and I think things are happening too fast, feet are here, aren't like, and I think that's a byproduct of some of the throws. And, and, um, the Maryland tape was his worst tape that I watched, surprisingly. I actually liked his Ohio State tape, even though they scored, um, they, they, it was twenty four, six of the final, they, he drove them down the field. He did some really impressive things against it. Better than I expected. Yeah. Way better than I expected. They just, they didn't convert drives, okay. Um, the, the Washington State tape for me was like, if I, if I'm, if I'm a scout and I'm walking in the GM's office, and he's like, give me one tape because you're, you're pounding the table for this guy, give me the one tape. That's his, that's his, like, best of tape is Washington State. I, like, just the running abilities on full display, I thought his ball placement was impressive, intermediate, over the middle, some outside the number of stuff. Um, but I, I think he's a little bit late sometimes in the timing with the deep ball, but he actually throws a really good deep ball from the, I mean, I just, like, I appreciate it where some of the placement was on, on the deep ball, like, I think is a first year starter last year. And a guy who's five, 10 and a half, who's known for his mobility and it's featured heavily, I saw a lot of promise in the way he throws the football. And I want to remind people, here we go. I want to remind people of like what Jalen Hertz was as a passer in his first year as a starter. I want to remind people of Lamar Jackson was in his first year as a starter throwing the football. So I'm not saying he's going to be one of those. guys. But I saw more strengths in his game as a passer. Compact balls out, hitting some spots and then the escape ability extending plays. I don't know. Here's my thing with some of these quarterbacks. And this is the tricky part, Mitch, because we lived in a society, a scouting society for so long. We both graduated University of Richmond in 1999. Don't tell people that did fine. We both got into this thing in the early 2000s, right? I jumped right in. I was actually starting with Gary Horton and 98 going into 99 and a, and you were like, I don't know. People don't know this. McShay was like Harry Potter. There are these, these stairs at University of Richmond and these apartments that have a closet underneath the stairs. And people would be parting and McShay would be in the closet watching tape like just the maniac. I seen your year. I told, I told Matt Davis and Baker and, and I forget who the other, my other roommate wasn't that year. When did you ever? No, no, no, no, no, no. Wilmo, Adam William Askey was just up here his son is looking at Ivy League schools. I don't know how that man, man could produce an Ivy League, but I'm here for it. Most of a brilliant wife. Anyway, long short, yes, I used to be my senior year. I got this opportunity to help write some articles of sporting news and I was watching tape in a closet in the University of apartments at Richmond. But my point in all of this is it was all pocket passing. It was, yeah, the mobility wasn't a factor. It was about mechanics, reads, progressions, all those things, right? And now I'm watching these quarterbacks in such a different light. And I told you, my homes was the first guy where it's like, give me the results. Give me the special traits. And we can develop that because Josh Allen wasn't Josh Allen at Wyoming. He had the best arm. Maybe that I've ever seen. Marcus Russell was up there and we saw that, but you combine his mobility and his arm, but he was like broadside of the barn missing sometimes, you know, throwing, trying to hit water off the boat sometimes, but developed. And I'm obviously exaggerating, but there were some, there were, there was a real of really bad. It was a concern. It was a legitimate, it was a, it was a concern. But still loved his traits, but it was still kind of stuck in the accuracy and, and progressions and mental makeup make the quarterback. And if you don't excel in those two areas, you're not going to be Brady. You're not going to be Manning. You're not going to be Breeze, you know? And so, and so the transition started with like my homes and Josh Allen. And I always mentioned Jalen hurts because I didn't, I didn't see it with Jalen at Alabama. And I saw a little bit more at Oklahoma and to see where he is. But it also takes good circumstances. The homes had him, had the year with Alex Smith had had, had, had, had Andy Reed was the different human being and especially different quarter, not human being. He was a different quarterback mentally than he was as his second year in the NFL. Then he was coming out of Texas Tech. Josh Allen and Brian Dable and they kind of the mobility early on and had some struggles, but worked through it. Jalen hurts grinding, like notorious for it. And yeah, everyone wants to point to all the things with the Eagles and there's frustration every year and all that. But Jalen hurts was like showing up with the briefcase every morning. Like there's legendary stories about when he's getting the facility, when he's leaving. So like, it takes circumstances and it takes special work ethic. Let's just like, like a commitment to this game that is like beyond OCD. It's obsessive. Yes. And so we've got a bunch of months now to drill into who's demand Williams. That's going to be a big part of this. A big part. I swear. I, we had more to come around here than you think. Yeah. And I want to get shed fish on. And I want to get some of these coaches on to talk about the human being and what they say. And yes, I know they're all going to be, well, he's the best. He's first in last out all that. But you can tell sometimes the difference in some of the specific things they say. And it's like the BS reader and all that. So I'm not rolling this cat out because I saw more in his passing skills. And I, and we've talked about some of these mobile quarterbacks from sellers. Lenore sellers is South Carolina archmaning Texas Niko Yamaliava UCLA. Soresby call it Texas tech call it Cincinnati. They can't play the season. Who am I missing? I feel like I'm missing one more. But, but there's a bunch of, there's a bunch of mobile quarterbacks that we've discussed. And you can make an argument. He's the most explosive dynamic runner of all of them. You can't coach that. You could make the argument. I wouldn't, I wouldn't be, I would be on the other side of that argument for you. All right, rank him for me. Mobility. I think the guy you're most afraid of. Sellers is by far the scariest guy. I think that arch isn't as twitchy, but the straight line speed Abby. Yeah, I'm a man's mobility when you combine all those traits is ahead of arch for me. Okay, that's, I can, that argument I'm more comfortable with. I just sellers. I can't, I can't get there with you. Okay, so he's the second. Even if we get, he, he is definitely up there. He is definitely up. The reason I ask you this is because I think this comes into when you have a quarterback this size, you're going to compare him to other quarterbacks that are similar, similar frames, right? Do you think let's go here? Do you think he's as dangerous a runner as athletic, as explosive, as Kyler Murray was at Oklahoma? He's twitch here. I think he's twitch here. Kyler or side to side. Jews kind of a deal as we said. Yep, yep, yep. I think, I think Kyler is faster on a straight line. I agree. And quicker, but yes. All right, so let's get to Drew Mastemaker who's kind of been lost in the shuffle. What are your strengths for him? Former, you know, walk on, gets a starting job in North Texas. I really thought this kid showed a great grasp of the offense and was more, more developed as a quarterback and understanding concepts and how to attack coverage. The night expected. Now, look, the inexperienced still shows at times. There's certain rotations he didn't read. Well, he, he threw in a coverage a couple of times. I'm not saying it was perfect, but he could get to his backside read. He knew where he wanted to go with the ball. There were times it certainly looked like to me. He was setting protections and making changes at the line. This guy's brain is pretty developed, I think, for a first year starter. And I think if I wanted to be obvious, I could talk about the arm strength. I think he's got a live arm, but I think to me what really stood out that I wasn't really expecting was how smart he is. Yeah, he has a really good control. And he, I was just looking up the name. Yeah, he was, he was stuck behind other talented quarterbacks apparently. Backed up Braden Buchanan and Deuce Adams at the position at Austin's Vandergrift High School. Yeah. And so he kind of like barely played quarterback before the Texas. It's a wild story. It's a great story. It's a great story. He made one start. This is messed to make a one start. Five appearances in 2024 as a red shirt year. And then he started all 14 this past year. He completed 69% of his passes, almost 4,400 yards, 34 touchdowns, nine picks. Yeah, he won the Bullsworth Trophy AAC offensive player the year and then goes and transfers to Oklahoma State, right, with coach. So yeah, that's a big deal, by the way. We do. Do you want to get into the head coach at this point or should we wait a sec? Sure. Sure. Head coach, head coach Eric Morris, who comes over with him from North Texas, has been at Texas Tech. He's been at Washington. So he's worked with Mathieu and Camorta Washington. He worked with the Homes and Mayfield, Baker Mayfield at Texas Tech. This guy has been with, but he had, I see an SM H2. I will check. I did not. Okay. I don't think he was that SMU. He was not. Okay. All right. He was not. So he was incarnate, we're incarnate ward with, with ward, went to Washington with ward. Mathieu was, did not play that year, but he recruited him and add him on that roster for a year. And then at Texas Tech, he was, you know, you've got to work with the Homes and Mayfield. So this is a dude that knows how to identify talent in quarterback, how to develop talent in quarterback. So, you know, that's, it'll be interesting to see what kind of progress he can get in year two out of this kid. Going against better talent, but I would argue it's not, this is not the big 10 of the SEC and he's going to have better talent at receivers. Some of the receivers at North Texas, I was, you know, they weren't the, this wasn't the best roster. Let's just say that. Yeah, agreed. I mean, it's a shotgun based offense. A lot of, a lot of, you know, after the snap, a lot of four receiver, whether it's four receivers look, but a lot of four routes going out. He, his strength is sitting back in the pocket as a tall six three, two, six three and a quarter, 215 pound quarterback is pre snap reads, kind of figuring out the leverage of defensive backs, reading the coverage, pre post, finding the right receiver, seeing the whole field, all of it, progression and then hitting and, and making the right decision, ball out pretty accurate pass it, right? lead the FBS and passing here, it's per game and passing here, it's per attempt, by the way. They relied on him. And like you said, like for a guy who didn't play a ton in high school and played limited as a as a red shirt freshman to come in and have that command. And he can kind of snap, he doesn't have an elite arm. I like his arm, but it's not a lead, yeah. It's a two, you know, one is exceptional on our grading scale, five is marginal, three is right in the middle. It's a two. It's good, right? And I like it. I like the way he can kind of like sometimes a defender's hanging on him or he doesn't have his feet probably, he can kind of just flick it and get the ball there. Yes. So so that those those things are all good. I'm really excited to see him like you said in a similar system, new weapons, but also new level of competition, it's not like we're not saying big 10 or SEC, but definitely a step up, right? Yeah, I that taller pocket passer, not a statue. We'll get into some of the weakness and not a statue, competitive mobility. Think about all the things we said about Drew Aller and his mobility, he kind of not the fastest, not the twitchiest, all those things. But like there were times where you need a first down and he kind of felt it and he's got good like coordination about, but I think he's a little, he's got a little bit more juice than Aller. I mean, I know he's oh, I yeah, he's a straight line guy, but every time he rent, I was like, where did that come from? Right? Right. Yeah. Like why are we not doing that occasionally? Not, I'm not saying that's going to be the strength of this game. It's never going to be the strength. But when he, I and my notes, this guy is, he's, I thought he was a statue. I thought he's a pocket passer, just strictly a pocket passer. And then he would, there, then all of a sudden out of nowhere, he takes off and I'm like, oh, he moves way better than I anticipated. Yeah. Great. But way better than I thought. Same. In writing the, the preseason report that we were basically our foundation that will continue to build on the preseason, preseason report. I was explaining to people all the things he wasn't from a mobility standpoint. And then he kept making me go back to my notes and kind of, and that's why I started with the, he's not a statue because if you read my notes in kind of the early parts of it, I was like pocket passer, not the most agile, you know, but then I started seeing more and more on tape where he, he was effective when the opportunity presented itself, right? So again, very different quarterbacks, you got to mom couldn't be more different. And everything's like, and mess to makers back there like for receiver sets back in the back field, pre snap decisions, ball snap shotgun, let's make a good read, come to one to two, maybe three balls out, occasionally takes off and runs and gets a first down because he's kind of competitive, coordinated, he's athletic, but he's not this burner and he's not the things that make them on so intriguing, right? Right. Right weaknesses, whether it's demand or, or a mess to maker, take it wherever you want. Let's go with mess to maker because I'm just, I'm just thinking about it now and you kind of hinted at already, he's not an escape artist, I do think he does a decent job of navigating the pocket. I think he can move around a little bit and buy some time. The problem is there's that aspect of it and then what happens next, I think his decision-making and his accuracy really start to erode when you get him to move his feet a little bit. I think that's a, that's a problem for him. So that would be the number one thing that stuck out to me and also even though he doesn't have an elite arm, we do have a little bit of another power picture who needs to develop a change-up situation here where some of the, the trajectory in the arc on some of these passes, I want to see, I want to see get a little better. Yeah, and I second everything you're saying. In addition to, if he's going to be this guy, I got to see a big step and I want to remind people, he's just a red shirt junior. My guess is he's got two years at Oklahoma State and I think that that will be best for me. I agree with that. Considering how little, he, like I talked about the national list, the Bresto list, the preseason rankings, this year they were much more aggressive in terms of including guys like a Jeremiah Smith or a quarterbacks it, but it would be third year playing, right? Third year, like after two years of eligibility, they're willing to kind of expand the field, which in my, I don't know, 26 years of getting my hands on national list, Bresto list, it was always like, these are guys are the true seniors, the ones who grow the senior bowl, well, the whole things change. The senior bowl takes underclassments, so, and we're an IL and transfer portal and all those things. So they've wisely expanded the field, but Julian Sain as a red shirt sophomore last year and first year starter, CJ Carr is a red shirt sophomore, first year starter and messed to maker, same deal, red shirt sophomore first year starter last year. None of those, those three names appear on, on those lists, okay? And I think rightfully so, so, so I say all that because if he's going to be this guy, which he is, I want to see, I want to see the advancement, because now he's going into a second years of starter, right? Didn't play a lot of ball in the past, but now it's time to the, the old rinse, refine, repeat. I, they're, he's so good at making reads and so good at controlling the offense and doing those things. Now he's got to take it to a graduate level, because I can't have those two interceptions, what was the South Florida game, 501, First Quarters, an example, didn't see the linebacker. Yeah. And I got, I got to believe with a little bit of a spirit, you know, a bad one. Yeah. And then there was another one late, there's second interception in that game. Wasn't this, it was a little bit about, he was kind of throat pressure coming, trying to remember it back pressure coming, a little bit more of a placement issue than a decision issue as we're getting to, I think. Yeah, but there also was a robber, like a safety right behind, trying to fit it between two defenders, the ball placement was a little off, probably didn't see that, that safety behind as well. So just, let's advance, let's be great, not good, let's be great with reads, decisions, although I agree, because he's going to have to be, to be, yes. If this skill set's going to work in the NFL as a starter or a capable backup that can come in and win some games, right? We've been doing like, how does it translate? I think we kind of covered that, well, no, sorry, we didn't, weaknesses, give me your weaknesses a little bit. Come on, Williams, yeah. So what am I doing? I want to say this, I want to, because he has no weaknesses in my eyes, he's perfect. A liar. And you've never, you, you have to pick apart anything you've ever evaluated. There's always a flaw, man. I want to echo some of the things you said really quickly. I think what demon Williams Jr. hits his back foot and he throws over the middle and the ball is out on time and rhythm. I saw some really nice stuff on throwing over the middle of the field. I also thought on some of these throws where you're anticipating some of these deep crossings to clear zone looks and the receivers running away from him, he made a couple of nice touch throws within the pocket that we're really encouraging. And I thought that was the most fascinating thing you said, is that you saw some things in the pocket that we're encouraging. And maybe this is just a different kind of, I mean, this is popped up before with some of these, these quarterbacks, most obviously Sam Levitt. I, I'm encouraged by that stuff. I don't see enough of it. I don't, and I feel like I've seen this movie before where we have a dynamic, smaller quarterback who you just love what he does at the college level and makes some of these, these throws that you just are like, well, here's five throws, man, here's five throws. Look what he can do. And it's not really about what you can do. It's about what you do consistently. Now, if he's able to do that and take the next step, I'm going to be excited about anyone else is demon about demon Williams, junior. But at this point, I'm seeing there's too much of the, of the, I need to, I need chaos. I need to extend plays. I am going to take off and run with my first readers in there. All of those things jump out to me as, as concerning of this hasn't actually translated that well as the NFL. I mean, Johnny Mansell was awesome to watch at Texas A&M. Kyler Murray was awesome to watch at Oklahoma. And the very key thing about both those guys that I think is interesting again about what you brought up is we do have some time to get into demon Williams, junior's character because I think both of those players, I mean, one more than the other obviously, but have had questions about whether or not they were willing to put it in the time to what it takes to be truly great. And maybe that's what demon Williams, junior has. They will get him over the hump and get him there because he does do some really nice things with the pocket. I understand that. It's not consistent enough for me. There's too many misses. There's too many times where he wants to take off and run. I don't, that's my biggest concern is like, how does this, how does it translate? He saw it so differently, man. I know. Maybe I had a lower bar coming, like, I'm watching that Washington State game and he's like, yeah, he'll run if he needs to, but he's hanging in there and he's going through his reads. He's doing it quickly. There's like, there's a tempo to what he's doing and he's hitting spots. And then Ohio State, I'm expecting this is going to be a disaster. This defense, yeah, I have a crystal ball, right? I have hindsight in my favor and I know 24 to 6 is the final. And he's hanging in there and he's making throws and the protection's not great. And I don't like, there's, there's like, there's a lot of things that I can't do. the deep out throw that he's making. There's crossers. There's down the middle of the field. There's left rail shots. I just, I saw it different. I was so encouraged. I hear you. Now the Maryland tape was like, the Oregon tape wasn't great either. I mean, right tape was. Yeah. But, but he hung and I watched that and it was like, but he hung in there and he did some things in that. Oh, he's so tough, dude. I don't know what's about. Yeah. And Mansell had substance abuse issues and was disappearing at the Manning Passing Academy wasn't showing up to meetings. I hear NFL all this stuff. Yeah. That's yeah. And powder with the video games and the commitment and the contract. But like, but that's why it's interesting that we we got time to get into this kid and there's no reason to believe he won't be an absolute workaholic. I'm not commenting in all about it. What it is. Like until we have that full picture until I see him do some things more consistently. And again, this is you are, I'm surprised because if you would ask us before this process where each one of us did, I would be more of a guy who would be more of a not benefit of the doubt. I guess that's not the right way of saying it projecting. You're seeing where this player's gone and you and I feel like you're making expectations about where they're going to go next. Whereas I'm more of a guy of like, I haven't seen it yet. I need to see more. Maybe it's a fair. I think the thing that I keep, I'm not beating around the bush to keep the thing I keep starting to reference or I keep referencing. And let's just let's let's drill into it for a second. For so long, I was so obsessed with the mechanics of and all the things that the NFL films guy would come up guys would come up to Bristol and I can tell the where the ball is going to go by where his foot where his footwork is and all that stuff, right? I used to call him the NFL films Biker gang and like and it was proven and it was and it was effective. And then I talked about my homes and Josh Allen and Hertz and Lamar and all those guys, right? The thing that's different now and I don't think I finished and I want to make sure the thing that's different now is I'm obsessed with I can't coach that. It's a fucking unique trait. It is something I can't coach. It is something special. It is dynamic. It scares me on defense. It breaks down my coverages. It breaks down my past rush. I've got to have lanes. I've got to now rush properly. I've got to do it with discipline. I've got to have eyes forward. I can't turn in man to man. This quarterback that keeps coming out of these kinds of quarterbacks and we were talking about like five of them potentially in this class with the Amaliava and Sellers and Soros B and Arch. All these guys we keep talking about and demand. I'm looking and we just said he's second most in terms. He may be a second best, most dynamic athlete. And yes, he's 5, 10 and a half. I get it. I don't know. So you've got that and then I see someone who's with Jed Fish. I know Jed. I've hung out a lot with Jed. I've talked to, he's been around a lot of really good quarterbacks and has developed them and I'm watching what he's learning from Jed and just a short, probably year and a half. It'll be two plus years by the time he takes the field. I see advancement in his game and I see a skill set that right now in the NFL, it seems like it can work. And so I just don't want to try this cat out. You think he has, you think he's elite. You think there's things that you have that I don't I don't know man. Like I get that he's really athletic. I don't think he's he's historically an elite guy and I would, I just think it's a danger, dangerous game you're playing. I really do. And I think who are the successful quarterbacks in this league? I mean, you right now, there are guys like, you know, Lamar Jackson, which is funny because the ESPN rankings of Lamar Jackson. By the way, he's now the 39th best player in the league. I think that's crazy. But we'll get into that another time. That being said, there are guys that are elite that, you know, I would love to have a quarterback, but Sam Darnell just won the Super Bowl. I mean, the best quarterback in history in he wasn't that long ago was Tom Brady. And there are guys like Jalen Hertz, who's won a Super Bowl. Patrick Mahomes, what is Patrick Mahomes? You can't coach, he's magic. You can't coach magic, but there's no like, it's not mobility. It's his, it's his instinct and ability to throw that's not a physical trait though. That's not a physical trait. His arm is is exceptional. And the way he can throw from different angles, yes, exceptional. But I watched him throw, I watched him throw a ball submarine, 60 yards in the air and hit a perfect spot at Texas. I don't really. I'm not under. I'm not going to. I'm not. He's so fucking gifted. It's like absurd. And it's just, and even though he's not fast and twitchy, is there more instinctive, effective? Like they're, all right, we put it this way. Who is more talent? Who has more natural talent in terms of being an athletic, strong, all of those things? Anthony Richardson or Patrick Mahomes? Of course, Anthony Richardson. What are we doing? If you want, like true serum, what scares me the most is the size. Cause for, for every Russell Wilson, there's a bunch of these cats that don't work. And yes, I, like, I'm going to give him a grade in a minute. And you're going to see, like, oh, he, he's still reasonable. Like, I'm not, I'm not elevating. Yeah. That's like the funny sort of thing. He's going to be sellers too. Right. Hey, Ma'am, Williams three. Yeah. I'm reasonable. But I want the audience to understand he's not just this running dual threat guy who's really cute in college. See, we're not that far off on him and NFL teams. And like the, like, the, like, you look at these preseason grades that I'm referencing and talking to different scouts and GMs and asking them for what their rankings are with positions. We try to do the way too early, mock and try to kind of get more of a feel of what NFL teams before they get ahead of you in their process this fall, how they view them. Like, demand's names on all those lists. Demons name is higher. Like, let's look at, like, we got, we got, we got more and arch. We got sellers. Levit, Soresby, Eamalliava and Williams ahead of champion. I'm not saying these are right. Right. Yeah. And I, and I, I was glad you said that. No, you don't think they're all right. Yes. I'm just saying, like, I'm not alone in thinking. Oh, you're not a different from, from the other guys. I do want to say that like the mechanics. I like, I see, like, I've talked about everyone now. It's, it's, it's think about the golf swing versus the baseball swing, right? The golf swing is compact. You're all here. It's there. It's down. And you're not bringing, like, when you go back with the club, you're not, you're not bringing that knee in like a baseball where you're, like, sliding back. But at the end of the day, the whole, the whole power base element is become the same. We've talked, I've talked a lot about it this, this off season. I think it's important to talk about these things now before we get in the season. Like, I'm going to the M2 QB camp. I'm going to arch to the Manning Passing Academy. I'm talking to all like the, the, the QB country coaches and Moby, like, I'm, I'm, I'm getting access to on purpose because the quarterback position is being coached the same almost everywhere, which is so different than what it used to be. And so I'm watching demand. And I'm, then I'm watching a thought of 1,400 campers being coached the same thing at Manning Passing Academy from all over the country. And I'm watching M2 QB when I go on Saturdays. And by the way, they've got, they've got like Bork and Vargas guys were going D1 like Virginia Tech and, wherever, wherever Vargas is going to be the, the, the, the best player of any position ever to come out of the state of Massachusetts, got offers everywhere. He's that good St. John's prep, okay? We're working there. They're all doing the same stuff, right? And it's, it's like this balance and it's, it's shooting the hip. And the release looks more three quarters than ever before it used to be. Yes. You know, and now it's, it's here because the, the hip is driving it. The arm is just an extension of it and it's right. Yep. And you're finishing here like, and then almost pulling the string back. I'm watching him. And I'm, and I'm seeing like when he's missing sometimes it's, it's the lean, right? Instead of here, it's the lean left longer stride, and I should mention the stride is as barely a stride, right? It's kind of the short power based arm. And, and now I'm watching him. He's kind of long striding on some of his misses and leaning. And what does that do to your arm? Balls, balls going to go high, right? Right. So it's correctable stuff is my, and I know that's a long winded and explanation, but I think it's important to kind of fill people in on where the quarterback position is. And for demand, I think like some of the misses are just correctable things. And then the other misses a lot of them are, he's going 100 miles an hour. He's avoiding pressure. His offensive line isn't great. He's running and he's like, literally sprinting north and just throwing and he rushes himself. So I'm fired up to see after another off season. And he's been through his first years of starter is their advancement in those areas. And if there are, I'm kind of, I'm, I'm, I'm going to be a backer. Let's put it that way. What you give him for a great, I want to know now. Now I need to know like, you say you're going to be a backer. Where, where did you put, just give me his grade 89. >> Wow, this is the biggest, this is by far the biggest cap we're going to have. >> I give him an 89 and I want to remind people, let's just go through it real quick. I got these notes somewhere. Dante is about a 94, 95, he's number one, sellers is a 93, 94, he's number two. I've got 11 is a 93, there's a number three quarterback, you've got him about four spots down. We have Car and Arch, like the 92 range, Mences and 91. We both have Niko and Chamblis and right around the 90 range. That gives us seven quarterbacks. Then I've got this pocket or cluster or grouping bunch, whatever you want to call it. Tear of 88, 89s with Sain from Ohio State, Julian Sain, Brennan Soresby and Demon Williams in there. And I would go saying Soresby Williams, if you're asking me to rank him, which I knew you're going to do, so I'll just get out ahead of it. And that's ahead of currently my Ava, but I told you, I think my Ava can make a huge leap this year, but I've got my Ava, like an 87 right behind him, material, like call it a 79, call it an 80, but again, I don't know where we are with him, I'm encouraged by the mechanics I'm seeing, he's restructured his throwing, he's doing a lot more of the stuff I just explained and the arm angle is kind of is changed to relieve some of the stress that he was an armthrower that somehow found a way, like up in the air, twisting all the stuff to generate torque, but he was putting a lot of pressure on his body and it was leading to inconsistency with placement. If those mechanics that we saw at the Manning Passing Academy play out and he's the best version of himself, I think his grade could absolutely rise, but that would be ahead of my Ava, Mateer, Mestemaker, we'll get to Hoover on Monday, Josh Hoover, where do you have him? I gave him a 70, oh God, I think he's, I just don't think, I don't see a leap in anything. I think he's a really good athlete. I don't think he's as good as Kyle Murray was as an athlete. Now remember Johnny Mansell, we felt the same way about Johnny Mansell. We just talk about that, like we felt like he was, the idea that he was gonna go that early was Manessos. I don't think the NFL is really gonna look at a 510, 195 pound quarterback who isn't polished enough at this point as a part. I actually think 70 is, is fair and I understand what the National Scout, that's an eye opening grade for me for the National Scout to give him that high of a grade. I don't care about that, I'm just saying, it's just something that popped out to me when you look at the list. I just don't, I don't know what the, what's the pathway here? Who are the 510, 195 pound quarterbacks in the NFL have done really well. And again, we could talk about the traits and about how things that can't coach, but I would go back to, okay, we've seen players with traits that are elite. And why did they fail and why did they succeed? Who were the guys succeeded, who were the guys that failed? And to my Williams, like, do we think he's that good of a pocket passer that he's gonna be able to overcome his lack of size? I don't know man, like I just don't, I just, I'm not comfortable with the path, I'm not comfortable with the frame. >> How big is Bryce Young, Bryce, I'll pull it up right now. >> And I'm, I'm not comparing their pack, their passing ability with demands currently to Bryce Young's. But I am saying, part of what made Bryce Young so intriguing with some of the magic and his ability to create, obviously, I'm not comparing these two because people are gonna go crazy on that. I'm just saying 510 and an eighth, 204 pounds. >> Right. And so roughly the same size and little, I think, one is more dynamic, athletically. I think, Timon, maybe has a little more, I know, Timon has a little bit more juice in his arm. >> He's nowhere near the pass or the, right. >> No, I understand, I'm just saying it, like, it can work and it typically can work with guys who are more explosive as a runner. Kyler, like, I get that Kyler's career as the number one overall pick is not what you want. But Kyler also, like, there was always something with the video games, commitment, working. >> Yeah. >> Contract. >> Uh-huh. >> An Arizona news flash for you. They're picking in the top five every fucking year, man. It feels like it, or top 10, or, like, they haven't exactly supported him brilliantly. Okay? >> I'm not really, I'm not really ready to call Bryce Young the success story that maybe you are either, just to say that too. >> No, but the 89 grade is just, yeah, but what number pick was he for Carolina? I'm just saying in 89 grade, I'm giving him some, maybe he's a late first, but I'm giving him a grade that's equivalent to a second round much more importantly with our grading. It's about a backup quarterback that you think you can develop because there's some stuff there that is highly intriguing, that if we can get the best version of him and he keeps developing, maybe he could be a starter in the league. That's what you drafted in 89 grade four. I gave 89 grades to, like, Drew Breeze would have been the equivalent. Drew Breeze was, like, our first year, I don't know what grade it was higher than where he was taken. Derek Carr was in that range, like, you know what I mean? Jackson Tarr was one of 91, so, like, I don't know, I'm just saying, I'm giving him 89 knowing full well, there has to be improvement, and I want to see the progression here, but he's more gifted and has more to offer the NFL than I even was close to expecting when I really dug into his tape. What about Matt Phil? Go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah, we'll move on. We'll move on. We're in for the cake because I love watching the play, but I just can't go there in terms of a grade. I didn't think there was a world in which we would spend a summer where you where I was kinder and saw more. This is so off script for me. I'm out of hard drive. Go off script. Your grades are sweetheart grades in the summer, and then you become usually a whole mansion, get depressed with somebody's grades, they're all going to be, all the guards are top 50 picks. Just say no. Oh, all right. Quickly. What a messed-and-maker grade. I gave him an 82. I really like him, man. I know. But I'm really, I'm really high on his ability to, I think he's got a strong arm and good 82 is, I mean, middle of day two. But there are things that I'm really excited about watching him do. I think he's got a quarterback coach is going to develop him. So, like, I have him in the back, he's not on the top 10 of these quarterbacks. I mean, he's, he didn't crack the top 10, so let's not get carried away. But in the middle of the second round, you're taking a kid who's, you know, 6, 3, 2, 15. He's got a strong arm who makes good decisions. That's what I'm looking for there. I'm looking for a guy who I think could come in and be a great backup. And like you said, maybe start. I feel more comfortable about that. I'm not taking a flyer. I just, I don't know. I'm very careful with taking that kid in the middle of day two. I appreciate everyone who's watching on Netflix, both men's and I do appreciate it. Thank you so much for watching on Spotify. Thanks for listening on Apple. If that's where you're doing it or anywhere else you get your podcasts. We will be back on Monday, okay? We're going to do a special EA sports driven dynasty show on Josh Hoover and Indiana. And it's going to be fascinating. I'm fired up for it. Then we're going to take a little bit of a break because I need some time away from Steve. And I think Steve could use some time away from me. I don't know what you mean. We're going on a retreat together. It sounds like I think our wives are working on that. We might meet up in Montana for a couple of days. And then I'm going to be out in LA for a couple days for some meetings. I may be looking for a new co-host. And that's tough. That's green. No, it's absolutely. It's the opposite of that. But then we're going to be back. We're going to be back after, like, I don't know, it's probably like 12 days or so. We're not going to have a show. We're back on Monday and then it's like, you know, after that, it's like two weeks combined. And then we've got a lot of exciting stuff coming up. We might have some exciting stuff to talk about for this fall. We might have all that. So I just wanted to prep everyone before I tell men's migrate on Mestermaker and say five stars and just get out of here. I gave him a 60, a 60 to the kid who let, okay, you know what? All right. The kid who led the FPS and passing yards for a 10 passing yards per game. Okay. Five stars. See him Monday. Thanks, man. Must be 21 plus in present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 plus in present in D.C. Kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem call 1 800 gambler or 1 800 my reset call 1 8 8 8 7 8 9 7 7 7 7 7 or visit cc pg.org/chat in Connecticut or visit md gambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. The gambling help line ma dot org or call 1 800 327 5050 for 24 seven support in Massachusetts or call 1 8 7 7 8 hope and why or text hope and why in New York for Louisiana call 1 8 7 7 7 7 7 0 7 8 6 7. (upbeat music)