Democrat Who Flipped a Red Seat Reveals the Shocking Question Voters Kept Asking (w/ Zack Mullock)

Hey, everybody. It's Tim Miller from The Bulwark. We are continuing our series of inspiring and surprising Democratic winners from Tuesday. We could be more excited to introduce to you the mayor of Cape May and now Congressman elect from New Jersey too. It's Zach Mullick. What's up, man? Tim, thank you so much for having me. I am a huge fan. So it's an honor to be on here. I mean, how are you feeling? Like what? You told me in the green room, we haven't had a chance to process this. Let's process it together. I mean, the cook ratings had you had this seat as a safe Republican seat up until Halloween when they're like, oh, maybe it's a likely Republican seat. Well, it's a Democratic seat now. What's that feel like, man? Actually, Tim, you were one of the only publications that gave me a shot, which was really awesome. You said that you should support these folks who have a chance to flip a red seat. And I can't thank you enough for that because truly that was during a time when no one else was giving me that shot. And so it's been incredible. And in all seriousness, I jumped in this race more out of principle than thinking that I could win. And here we are. I mean, I do have a softest for mayors and you know, you went to the mount. So there were things I liked about your bio, but it was if I'm just being frank, it was really more about like, I want anybody to beat the son of a bitch, Jeff Vandrill. And anybody that was a Democrat could look at what Trump was doing to the country and say, I'm going to change, I'm going to change sides and join them. And not only am I going to join them, I'm going to become a cult member who goes along with everything that Donald Trump wants. Like I screw that guy. And so I was thrilled to, you know, try to give a little way I could, like a little boost to whoever was challenging him. And I was glad you're out there doing it. Like, why did you decide to do it? It also is this I and I have actually known Jeff Vandrill for decades. You know, he has served in other capacities, not just as congressman, but as in the New Jersey legislator as a senator and such, etc. But I just felt like come that January is when I jumped in and I, I felt like the direction of our country was just so wrong. And I do, I have three kids 12, 10, and eight. My oldest 12 year old is a young man. And you know, his president has been Donald Trump. You know, that is the leadership that he's looked up to. And I see it in his buddies and things like that. And that I'm speaking of podcasts. This whole kind of manosphere, macho attitude that I just feel like is so different than how I was taught to be growing up. And what laid you sitting as buddies? What do you mean by that? Just this idea of like one-uping everybody and feeling like you're out on your own. Nobody's there to help. And I just that, you know, to be tough, you need to be mean and cruel. And you know, what you see happening with ICE and, and, and frankly, the president, you know, selling Bitcoins and Bibles, you know, I just feel like that is the leadership that this generation is looking up to right now. And, and I just want to make sure that those, especially younger men saw that there is a different way. You know, I grew up learning to turn the other cheek and to care for the, you know, the least among us. So are you with your kids on election night? What was the like when your phone and the numbers come in? You sent me an Instagram message on Election Day, and I noticed, I was like going through the Instagram messages. I don't, I guess I forget what, what I was doing. I was like multitasking. And I was like, wait a minute, this is Actuals Act, you're just like a guy messaging me. And he messaged me on Election Day and said you thought that you had a chance. So like, take me through that. Like, you're on Election Day, you felt like the numbers look good. Then Election Nighty with your family. What was it like? Well, the early returns, we were really building up a pretty strong, you know, we were ahead significantly. You mean just another Democratic ballot, so we're coming in, you mean? Right. The Democratic ballots were looking really strong. But as Election Day went, we were seeing those that lead go down and down and down to the point where we're down some 6,000 votes. And the history in CD2 here is in New Jersey, CD2 is the independence, the unaffiliated vote with the Republicans. So at that point, I was like, Oh, I don't think we're going to be able to pull this out. And then shortly after 8 p.m., they started seeing what, you know, who people actually voted for. And obviously a lot of independence and even Republicans voted with us. I mean, I guess you're the mayor. So your kids kind of already see you as a politician, but I don't know what's everybody thinking about moving to DC. Well, I'm there not moving, but I mean about you moving, but being in DC, you know what I mean? They're all excited. They're excited. I mean, we got the late notice after learning that we were leading that the governor was going to be flying the helicopter to come to our, our little neck of the woods. And so the kids were all ecstatic. You know, I mean, they were thrilled. Mikey Sheryl Chopper to your victory party. Yes, she did. That's pretty cool. She's the helicopter pilot, Tim, you know? Yeah, look at Frank, excuse to get in the chopper. All right, let's tell you a little bit about you. So before you got into all this for you, the mayor, you're a golfer. I understand you're a golfer. One of the push poles that my opponent put out there with kind of like the negatives, you know, will you vote for Zach? Will you vote for Jeff? If you say Zach, then you get all the negatives. One of them was, did you know he was a failed professional golfer? And my buddy has said, you know, it is true. I mean, did you make the PGA? The Philly section, you know, it was a long time ago right out of college, you know, but I enjoyed it while it lasted. But it's been a long time. Any big tournaments? No, no, just just many, it's like a mini tour kind of stuff, but he's always enjoyed it. And, you know, you never got to meet Phil Mikkelsen. You never considered going to live. No, that is definitely that would have been a definite now. You did some like management of hotels. So you've done some hotel restoration. And in Cape May, you built a new firehouse, a new library. So maybe your beat can be kind of some oversight over what the president's doing. I know what you think about his work on the golf course in the ballroom. Yeah, right. I am a licensed general contractor. So, you know, we could maybe do a cheesecake factory or something would be fun. But yeah, no, I, we actually, some of the stuff I'm really proud of, we own the oldest hotel in Cape May. Cape May is the oldest seaside town on the East Coast. So it's got a really cool history. Historic preservation has been a big thing. But, you know, we started the Harriet Tubman Museum here in Cape May and the Cape May Arts and Science Center in Cape May point, which has been a really cool success. Actually converting the Sisters of the St. Joseph Nunnery into like an environmental and scientific research center, which has been really, really cool. Is Harriet Tubman going to have a connection to Cape May? Yeah, Harriet Tubman worked in Cape May for several summers, saving up money to, you know, go and free and slave people in Maryland. Wow. Yeah, really, really cool history. Yeah. What can I check that out? I spent time in Rahobath because I was the gay beach town where DC games went to. I never made it across the the bay or whatever over to Cape May. So next time through with my daughter, the fairies of, the fairies are really cool Tim. You love it. Hang out the Gays and Rahobath and Ferry over, did the Harriet Tubman Museum. That's a full day. It's nice. So you're going to DC. Let's talk about your politics. Like, where do you think, where do you fit in? Are there who, who in Congress? Are you trying to model yourself after? Are there big issues you're thinking about? What's interesting about CD2 is, you know, it was kind of gerrymandered in 2018 or 2020 to kind of help the Republicans in this area. But for years, it was, you had Frank Lobiondo, kind of a moderate Republican. And before that was Bill Hughes, who was a Democrat and a real statesman. But I think what CD2 has produced is, I would call them bridge type statesmen who do work with everybody, you know. And I think that's exactly, as you know, what we need in Congress right now is people who are willing to cross the aisle a little bit. But on the principled stuff and the big, big stuff right now, I know Democrats, including myself, are not really in the mood to talk about compromise because there's so many things that we have to get the work right away. I mean, I obviously campaigned on doing everything we can to end the war. And I ran to end the tariffs, which by the way, Tim, the tariffs have a unique issue here in CD2 and affecting tourism of Canadian tourism, which for a lot of us made up 10% of our, you know, of our profit was Canadian tourism. And that was basically 0% this year, which obviously that hurts a lot of small businesses in this area. So ending those things immediately and then getting on to tackling the healthcare issue. And I consider the housing issue a crisis, you know, the average first time home buyer being 40 years old. That is something that we have to change immediately. I noticed the Tel Rico was talking about that too. And I don't, you know, I don't think there's going to be a ton of opportunity for bipartisan deals with Donald Trump. So the next two years, that's nice aspiration for you for the future. But housing could be one. I mean, Trump likes to build stuff, considers himself a builder. You know, Democrats know that there's a problem. And, you know, maybe there is something that can be done there the next two years to at least start down the path because we're way behind on that front. You're talking about ICE. And you said this, what's happening right now with mass agents in our streets with no accountability with no recording devices. It's insanity and it's wrong. long. We need to do immigration enforcement with decency and dignity. And I think this is one of the big questions when you guys get in there. There's just a ton of funding for ICE right now with J.B. Pretzger on earlier this week who is saying I give necessary maybe even there should be a government shutdown to try to take away some of the funding from ICE that has been going to these assaults on people in our communities and just wondering where you're at on that. Honestly, I think a fiscally conservative thought is how much money is being spent for getting for a moment the lack of dignity and decency, but the amount of money is absolutely insane. And you know, I got to tell you being in a purple area as we are here, people were upset with the immigration policy of this. I mean, I think it was at one point of advantage to the president and right now, I think it's a major disadvantage because they thought what people were doing was absolutely cruel and frankly a waste of money. So I would certainly support the amount of money being spent right now is just absolutely insane. And then the cruelty is again, you know, in South Jersey, we have a lot of farm country. Who's out in the fields? You know, I mean, it's as if we don't want to recognize that, but that that's who's in our food system. Dana Prino is on Fox, you're the night talking about how the Democrats say they want to end the Iran war, but what are they going to do, defund the troops? I'd like to see them try that. I don't know. I mean, what do you think about, you know, how you can put pressure on the administration to bring that craziness to a tonight? I mean, the voters couldn't have been more loud and clear in regards to the war in Iran. I mean, I had a lot of Republicans telling me it was time to wrap up the war in Iran. And frankly, by the end of the campaign, even my opponent was talking about wrapping up the war that he had just voted for. But, you know, so I 100% I will do everything to wrap up the war in Iran. I think it's it was a war of stupidity from the beginning and we should not waste any more time. And as I've heard you talk about many times on the show, I mean, we were told that the nuclear capabilities were obliterated, you know, months before we got into involved in Iran. So I think wrap it up as quickly and as safely as possible. Well, you had another foreign policy stuff and kind of what you think would be, you know, smart priorities for the country as we start to reassess all that. Well, I think one of the things we're going to have to look at, what is going on with Russia and Ukraine and the deals that have been happening with this, you know, the President's son-in-law. I think, you know, a strong message that I received from the voters is they want a sense of justice in all of this. And Melania had a child thief at the White House this week. I don't know if you saw that. The like one of the Russian, you know, Carol Davintrovs and people they're stealing Ukrainian children, they're at the White House giving Melania like a present. And she's thanking the Russian Human Rights Federation. There has to be oversight and accountability and all of that. Tim, the number one question I received on this campaign, which still surprises me, was in some format, will you be a decent human being? Not a policy question, not, you know, will you be a decent human being? I don't think in any other election would that have been the number one question by far that I received. And I think it has it to do exactly with things like that. It's just like, will you do what's right for humanity? And I just think we, as a country, need to be that shining city on a hill. And we should strive to be that. And I think that resonated with a lot of Republicans here in South Jersey. We can be decent in like tease for opponent a little bit. Can we be decent? I mean, what did you think about his outfits? It's an interesting outfit that you like to wear. I said to some of my supporters, some tailors losing a lot of money, especially with me, because I'm almost the complete opposite. So I've been told I need to up my game a little bit to be honest with you. A lot of time and effort to like look like a little Marionette doll and like a fancy little three-piece suit. I don't know. It's tough. I hope we can take some time to reflect on the Sartorial choices with his free time next year. All right, what else haven't I asked you about? What, you know, what, what else are you kind of thinking about as you make this transit? That's pretty unexpected transition. Yeah, I just think, I mean, obviously the Democrats have such an opportunity here. And, but I will tell you, we're not going to have any honey moon. I'm aware of that. We've got a, we've made promises on the affordability aspect, certainly. And we're going to have to deliver. And we're going to have to deliver quickly, I think. And I do think some of those are easier in regards to some of the things that we just try to wrapping up the warner ran and trying to end the tariffs as quickly as possible. But I think after that is when we really have to work together to solve the healthcare crisis, you know, and again, for me, housing in South Jersey is a really big deal. It's like so many people can't afford to live in the communities that they grew up in, especially along the shore. We have a problem with the brain drain and even, you know, our one university, Stockton University is having some real difficulties right now. So those are some big issues that we're going to have to work on right away. There are any tears in the mullet household over the last week. Tim, I'll tell you one little embarrassing one. First off, I apparently didn't have Mr. Vandrew's private cell phone in my number. So I just saw his name kind of come up as a text message. I answered it and he called very early in the evening and I didn't expect it. And he was crying? No, not him. That's going to be the story I tell people. You know, you can't ever let the facts get away with good stuff. So I go finish up. Everyone kind of looked at me like, what was that phone call? And I said it was Congressman Vandrew conceding and the whole place erupted. But I got to tell you also just I was interviewing in a copy shop with the Philadelphia inquiry yesterday. And it's just been meeting, meeting, meeting phone call, phone call. And then I had this reporter and she's, we had a 20 minute conversation. Everything was normal. Had a good, you know, conversation. And then she said, how do your parents feel? And I just in that moment realized I haven't processed my emotions. And I just started tearing up in the middle of a coffee shop with this reporter. I said, I'm sorry. I have to compose myself for a moment here. But yeah, so all exciting stuff. That's sweet, though. You know, I think my win was so unexpected for so many people that people are just blown away and to tell you, we had thousands of volunteers. I mean, Tim, I had three staff members. That was it. That we had three paid staff members. Everything else was volunteer because that's all the fundraising that we could afford. And so it just was, you know, an incredible moment. Man, well, I'm really proud of you. It was very moving to get to get your message on election day. And I started to get nervous for you a little bit after the first batch came in. And then I had a big wave of happiness and relief come in. So I'm happy to get to meet you now. And I guess now we can have a beer and DC. How about that? I literally, I listen every day. So I appreciate you and and I probably stole a few of your things along the way for the campaign trail. So thank you. I hope so. What else am I doing out here? If you didn't stay, you can steal anything you want, man. No need to credit. All right. All right. Thank you, man. That's Zach Mulligan, New Jersey too. Mayor of Cape May. Got to find a replacement for that job because now he's Congressman Elect. Thanks so much, everybody. Subscribe to the feed. We got more of these coming. We got a bunch of feel good wind. So stick around, subscribe to the feed.