Demi Lovato on Healing, Marriage, & Life After Child Stardom

"Hey, baby, welcome back!" This season feels different. Not because the conversations are louder, but because they're deeper. This show has never been about gotcha moments. It's not about headlines. It's not about proving a point. It's about perspective. It's about sitting with people, not to agree, not to attack, but to understand. Pop culture moves fast. Opinions move faster, but nuance? Neuance takes time. And that's what we're making space for. This season we are choosing curiosity, over certainty, context, over chaos, conversation, over combat. I'm not here to speak for my guests, and I'm not here to speak over to me there. I'm here to ask the questions that let you see for yourself, because culture isn't a headline. It's a reflection. And this show, it's the mirror. So let's get into it. (upbeat music) ♪ No matter what we doing in the car ♪ ♪ Just chilling, couple MSI music ♪ ♪ Sit back and listen ♪ ♪ Life loves sex, science, hovering at all ♪ ♪ Especially the vagus money that we keep on ♪ ♪ No matter what it is, we can make it make sense ♪ ♪ It's nothing else to do but kick it with the homies and kids ♪ ♪ So grab you a drink and a snack you a joy ♪ ♪ Get into the vibe that only we do ♪ ♪ You know it's your business ♪ ♪ This is Kiki ♪ ♪ Baby, this is Kiki Paula, yeah ♪ - Hey y'all, welcome to the season premiere of Baby, This is Kiki Palmer. Our first guest is somebody who knows all too well what it means to grow up in this spotlight. She stepped into the industry as a child and evolved into a global superstar and best-selling author right before her eyes. With nine studio albums, Grammy nominations and a brand new tour and cookbook coming out, her resume speaks for itself. Whew, we have a lot to get into. And so please welcome the one and only, Demi Lovato. (upbeat music) Yeah! Where are you looking so good? - Thank you so much, you're loving this hair. - Thank you. - When we were at the TikTok fest together, oh my gosh, girl, the vocals were hydrated and fabulous. - Thank you. - Your voice is just too damn good. - Thank you so much! - Yes, that rain, it gives me all the life I need. Now before we get into everything, I have to get into this pre-show, pull-up question. - Yes. - Let me see what you were answering. Zodiac sign, I think I knew that you were Leo. - Emily, I got a lion on my hand to prove it. So this must mean you feel very Leo. - Yes. - Yes. - Are you August? - Yep, August 20th. - August 20th, my best friend's August 9th, so I definitely love me, Leo. - Oh. - Do you know your big three? Yes, so do you know your big three? - I don't know my big three, but I think my son is Leo. I know I'm a double Leo somehow. - Yes, double Leo, one of them. Okay, cool. Okay, I'm okay. I'm gonna have to get her a birth time and wish she was born to get into the baby. - 625. - Oh, so we can do it. - We can do it, I just, I know I did it before, but I forgot. You honestly, you have so many die-hard fans, I'm sure they know it. - Yes, I'm sure. - Yes, okay, what are you most grateful for today? My husband, girl, congratulations. You guys are coming up on a year? - Yeah, we're coming up on a year. - So insanely amazing to find your person, you know what I mean? It really, really is. A relationship or friendship non-negotiable for you has to be able to laugh at themselves, girls. That's one of my biggest pet peeves. When people talk about what kind of guy you like, what kind of person you wanna be with, I don't always know all the details, but I definitely could tell you they can't be super cool. - No, they can't take themselves too seriously. They have to be able to laugh. - Yes, I mean, because I'm also goofy as hell. - Yeah. - If you're not able to laugh with me, then I'm still crazy. - Okay, what's the question you wished you were asked more in interviews, the topic of mental health? - Yeah, yes. - I'm always talking about mental health too. - Good. - And I feel like we really, I feel like we've gotten better. Like, think about when we were kids. I don't think we were ever talking about it. - No, absolutely not. - You know what I mean in that generation, but I feel like now the conversation has come up a little bit more, but we need to get past the trigger words. - Yes. - And into what it means to maybe even sustain good mental health before we start tipping into the best point. - Yes, and I think also just checking in with one another, like how are you doing? Like how's your heart? That question always resonates with me. - Yeah. - Because it establishes a meaningful connection right then and there. - Mm-hmm. - And that I'm present with you. - Yes. - Not just, who was someone you've met that made you feel star-struck, Beyonce. - Would you help me? - When was it? - I met her at the, maybe not in set, maybe Elle, women in something. - Yeah, one of the women in the room. - One of the women in the room. - It was that. And I met her backstage and she was like, and first of all, I was so star-struck. But she was like, oh my God, I'm such a fan of your music. And I was like, thank you so much. Like, you know who I am. I had like a moment where I just was, I totally fell apart. And it was, it was amazing. One thing about Beyonce, she liked Cassanga. And she liked somebody. - Oh, my God. - That got talent. So I'm not surprised by any of that because you, you know, incredible voice. - I forget where I was with you when I had first heard you sing live. Because obviously we all knew that you could sing, but it was one of these, again, one of these events. And you didn't have nobody on stage. It was just, and you had this attitude to where it's like, (beep) 'em come out here and sing. You know when somebody has them vibe where they just like, yes. - La-la-la. And you feel like some crazy long, no. I mean, we all got started standing up and saying. - Thank you. - I don't get what it been, it was, but it was everything. Okay, what's a mantra you live by and why? Family and friends first, it's never too soon to laugh at yourself. - Yeah, yeah. You seem to have a good sense of humor. - I like to think so. It's like to have fun and get into it. I'm the same way. - I love to have fun. - Well, I'm glad you're here. We're definitely gonna have some fun and get into it. - Yes. By the way, I mean, my girl is a brand mogul 'cause this is your water? - Yes, Cali water is, I have my own flavor. It's called, it's blood orange. - Ooh, cheer water, cheer water. - It's cactus water, thank you. But it's super hydrating, rich in antioxidants, tons of electrolytes, and I personally just love this brand. I love the flavor. - This is the stamp kidding. (laughing) - Could you imagine, that would be crazy. - It's really good though, actually. - Thank you, I also brought you something else, which we'll get into in a second. - I mean, everybody to do this by the way, take note from Jimmy. - I baked you some cookies today. - Ooh. - They're chocolate chip cookies. - I don't know if you're evil or good. (laughing) - Because why would you do this? - I have my own cookbook. - Girl. - Called one plate at a time, and it comes out very soon. - They congratulation on the book. - Thank you so much, so I brought you the book too. - Oh my gosh, these cookies look so good. - But the cookies are-- - Guys, I actually want to show you the cookies because they actually look like fake cookies. Like, that's how good they look. They don't just look like they taste, like they look like they taste good. - Get into, oh my gosh, they smell good too. Can I keep the tupperware? - Oh yeah, you can keep it. (laughing) - Oh my gosh, thank you sister. - Of course. - This is fabulous. - I wish I would have brought you like a cute like basket or something to put them in. - But this is all authentic. - Yeah, I was like, what do I have in my kitchen? - Oh yeah. - You can keep it, so. - You're so happy, thanks. - Of course. - Yes. - Well, here's the cookbook. - Thank you so much. - Yeah. - Well speaking of how jahart, how you feel? I wanna ask you the question you'd like to be asked, how's the vibes feeling with you today? - The vibes? Okay, so I'm at a level 10 out of happiness. I like, that's the only way to describe it. I'm just, I am so fulfilled. My heart is so full. I'm so grateful for the relationships, the people in my life, my husband, what I'm getting to do this for a living. I'm just so grateful, I'm excited. I've got so much coming up. So, but my mental health, I feel serene. I feel peaceful. I feel excited and happy. - That is such a good feeling. And honestly, it's like, it's also one of those things where it's always ebbs and flows with life. So when we have these moments where everything is hitting on all cylinders, it's really important to hold on to and lean into. 'Cause we know it's gonna be a tough day. We're gonna have, you know, things gonna happen. But like that overall just kind of like balance vibes. It's so good, I'm so happy to hear that. 'Cause you know, I feel similarly. - Oh good. - Yeah, good. We gotta go back to the beginning because both of us started out as kids. - Yeah. - But you started out on Barney Girl. - I did. - Barney, I loved Barney. - I loved Barney. I did too, girl. When I was little, my mom used to make me and my sister's like, whenever we would argue, we would sing the Barney's sister song. It's like, sometimes we're real close friends. We stay up late and talk at night, like I was obsessed with Barney. - I never saw that song. - It was like a old one. - And I never performed it. - Yeah, I was like, oh, oh, oh, cause you know, it's when we think about it. - Barney been around for a long time. - A long time. - He was like, yeah. - I con it. - I con it. So what was that like for you working on that show and getting your start in that way? - It was so much fun. And I, if you remember anything, 'cause how old were you? - I do remember. I was eight years old when I filmed it. So I actually had auditioned when I was five. And they didn't book me because I didn't know how to read yet. And they were like, how are you gonna memorize your lines? My mom would, in the audition, she drew pictures next to each line. So I could remember what the line was about. Anyways, it didn't work out when I was five, but I auditioned a few years later and ended up booking it. And it changed the course of my life. And I give Barney the credit for like really starting my career and acting. It was my first film and television job. - And so where was this at? Was this from where you're from? - I'm from Dallas. - You're from Dallas? - Yeah. - Can you do this in Dallas? - I did, they filmed in Dallas. And it was a dream come true. I loved Barney as well and had toys, Barney toys, and everything growing up and so to be on the show was, it was so sick. - I love that. You mentioned being called an old soul at a very young age. How do you feel like that helped you in your era? of Disney. We're obviously like, I don't know how soon after that, that was maybe not, like, what four or five years on how old were you when you started working with Disney? Disney, I was 14. My first work with Disney for a while. Yes, yes. Well, I was auditioning for a while. I wasn't booking a lot of jobs. I would book commercials here and there and like, a guest role on this show, but like, it was not consistent work. Yeah. After Barney and to Disney Channel, and once I did end up working with Disney Channel, that's when my career really skyrocketed and just like took off for me and the rest of the history. And would you say that it was, were you immediately auditioning for "Sunny with the Chance" or did you kind of work? Because you know, working with Disney, sometimes they have you doing other stuff and then slowly you get your own show. But how did it happen for you? I booked a show called "As the Bell Rings," which was. Yes. Oh, you know it! "As the Bell Rings," yeah. Okay. Well, I did "As the Bell Rings," which for those who don't know is a like five-minute show that they would air on commercial breaks. And that was my shoe-in with Disney Channel. And then they brought me into audition for. They actually had me auditioned for "Jones," the TV show. Yes, I remember. That was "Quest." That show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I didn't book it. I got down to the wire on it and I was so devastated and they were like, you know what? We want to pull you into audition for two other projects if you're like, come on in and audition. And I was like, you just told me no, like I don't want to do this, but I'm gonna give it another shot. So I went in and I was so defeated, but I put my all into these two additions and it ended up being Camp Rock and "Sunny with the Chance." That's crazy. That's crazy. Yeah. I mean, I think it back on it. Was this Gary when Gary March was a part of this? Yes. Shout out to Gary March. Yes. I mean, it was us and the other guy too with them that I cannot. Adam Burrell. Oh my God. Adam Burrell, Gary March. That was their whole era where Disney Channel, I feel like it was really at what we considered the Disney Channel. Yes. So "Sunny with the Chance," you had your own show. What was that like? Because having your own show, it's very fun and cool, but it's also a lot of pressure. I'm curious how it was for you. I think for me, I had so much fun working on Disney Channel. I was thriving, but at the same time, it was coupled with a lot of struggles. I was struggling with my mental health at the time, so I really was kind of. I let the pressure get to me, and it was really challenging. It's hard to carry a show by yourself at 16 years old, and I ended up having a blast. I made incredible friends that, you know, I've stayed friends with, and it was a good experience, but it was a lot of pressure, and I did struggle on that show. What do you think was the hardest part for you? Because I know for me growing up, I don't know what your background was in Dallas, but I came from a very low-working class family. So getting into Disney, Nickelodeon, having my own show, I became the breadwinner of my family just by taxi. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's just what happened. They had to help with my career. We were seeing money that we never had seen. Oh, absolutely. That stress for me, especially not being able to process it, that was like a big triggering point, and then never wanting to, like, be sad or make anybody feel like bad about it, because I don't want them to be stressed, like, you know, and then not having a lot of time to, like, have fun and be a kid. Yeah, you know, for me, I actually was like, if you're gonna. I had this, like, mantra that was like, if you're gonna work me like an adult, I'm gonna party like an adult. Oh, and I got into some bad stuff at a young age, and that's when I started, like, self-medicating, and I wish that, you know, I had stayed more focused. Obviously, I think the course of my life would have gone in a different direction, meaning, like, I wouldn't have maybe struggled as much with substances later down the road. Sure. But, like, everything happens for a reason, and I'm sitting here in this state of mind today, like, grateful, and for everything that I've been through. Yeah. But, yeah, it was really challenging. There wasn't a lot of time for play, but when I did, I played pretty hard. I mean, that's very. I know we didn't want any drama. I know we didn't want any of the drama of it, but I feel like people don't understand, like, that that's what we was dealing with. Yeah. I found myself dating. I'm 15. Why is my boyfriend in 20? Why was my boyfriend 30? Go! You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not smiling at that, but that is real. We were trying to find outlets, though. I don't think, you know, just a way to process this and nobody our age. I mean, we could understand. Nobody our age could understand, but then you look back in hindsight. When I turned 30, I was like, that's not okay. Girl, the moment when you realize, and you get the age and a lot of people that were around you and doing stuff, though it's almost a mental break that can happen because you realize, yeah, you were taking advantage of it. Oh, I was being exploited. Yeah. Oh, this was, that was very difficult for me when I, because at 15, I'm thinking like my boyfriend's older because I'm doing an older job and I'm doing a bunch of things and this is the way that it is and it's seen normally in my mind, but then I get, especially if you're an older soul, too, especially if you're mature for your age. I love the Hillary Duff song. Oh, my God, me too. Yeah, because it's like, oh, you all have to say in damn life. Yes. You know what I mean? Where we keep people kept telling us you're so mature for your age. I also, I also wrote a song about that. It's called 29. Oh, and when you listen to it, you know, I think you'll be able to relate to it. Oh, my God. I was very excited to talk to you because I knew that we were going to be able to relate to so much of these things. But in speaking of that, like you, people might think, well, you're surrounded by other people, you know, there's Miley Cyrus and there's Selena Gomez and he's like, but there's a lot of competition that the industry put in those times in space when we were kids. I almost felt like a lot of times, me being black, I was kind of left out of the conversation. Like, you know, people weren't really involving me in it, you know, which, I mean, it was, it kind of was positive. And I feel like in a lot of ways because I felt like I would be watching on the outside a lot of those different mechanisms happening. And I would be kind of like, okay, that's interesting. How was it for you trying to make friendships when you have these corporations, you know, using us all as products and then always pitting like, who's the number one girl? Like that makes it hard to actually become friends with people that might relate to your experience. Well, what was beautiful is Selena and I had a friendship prior to Disney Channel because we actually were on Barney together. And so I felt this safety when I came into the Disney Channel having a built-in friendship there already. And I'm so grateful for that. We'll always be grateful for the friendship that I have and continue to have with her. But I, you know, it was, it was challenging when, you know, people are comparing you to one another and you naturally have insecurities at a young age. So you start comparing yourself to other people. But one thing my mom always instilled in me was like, there's room for everyone. It's not a competition. And even though there are, like, it can be competitive. And if you have that mindset, it definitely is competitive. My mom was just always like, there's room for everyone. And you have your own voice, your own lane. And that's what I really stuck by. And that's what kind of got me through that period. So like, I was always rooting for everybody. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's true. It is, it is true that everybody has their own lane. And it is difficult, though, sometimes in those spaces for that to be able to be made clear, you know. But I just think back and it's like I often wonder, what if I did share a little bit more about what I was experiencing instead of being so insulated and afraid? What more friendships I could have made with my peers? Because I'm not friends with a lot of people in our industry. Because I was always for me as a kid being on those sets and working. And like I said, being, you know, considered marginalised in a lot of ways, I was kind of like, let me just go to work, do my job, you know, whatever. But I think about it now, especially when so many of us have shared our stories or even the documentary you did where you were speaking to other people in our, in our career path, where it was like, damn, I wonder if we, you know, if we was able to really express ourselves more, how many more of us could have at least created a safe space with each other. So it's cool to be able to talk about it now. Yeah, definitely. Absolutely. You've been open about feeling like you've had to live up to this role model world, which again, yes, working with major corporations, especially ones like Disney or any of the kids stuff, that's kind of the whole vibe. It's very, it pushes that before you even know who you are to be a model of. Yes. How have you handled over the years processing that, not feeling guilty about that and kind of becoming, you know, your own person outside of that? Yeah, I don't look at myself as a role model because I have never made mistakes and I have followed the rules in this and that I have, I really haven't followed the rules and I've gotten into a lot of trouble and and, but I've learned from them and I haven't let those mistakes break me or change who I am. Like, I think I'm a person that believes that we are here to evolve and evolution is very important to me and so I continue to work on myself daily and and that's my way of being a role model for others is just being like, you know what? I'm going to learn from my mistakes and I'm going to teach you all what I've learned from them so that you don't have to go through it. Yeah, I feel that I feel like that's what I remember two pucks you Chikour used to say, like, I'm not a role model, I'm a real model, meaning if I can be anything is real, you know, and be own in my truth and if that can be of inspiration of just for you to walk your own path then cool, you know, but go like try to be like perfect. It was never me, never me, like I could never, I couldn't even fake it like seriously. I'm grateful for the way that my life has turned out and I feel like I'm better for it having learned from my mistakes and I do think that's why everybody is always rocked with you, you know, what you represented in those spaces, even when we was all kids and everybody was really trying to be even more perfect than the generation and culture were in. Now, you was always like, look, I'm demi guys. And people resonate with that. Let's talk about Camp Rock, though. I mean, like, obviously we know Sunny with a chance, but like Camp Rock, like it was really just a cultural classic hit. Thank you. When you were doing that show, did y'all know? Did you-- was there a moment in time where you were like, oh, my life's going to be changed forever? Like, you know what I mean? Or it wasn't unexpected? There was a pivotal moment when I realized my life was going to change. Baby, this is Kiki Poma, yeah. You know your girl loves to travel. Some of my favorite trips have been with my fam to far off places like Rome. But this spring, we're eyeing a more local spot like South Carolina, because our non-negotiables are delicious food and a beach where we can have fun, but also get some much-needed R&R. And when I'm planning where we're going to stay, I'm not only thinking about logistics, like where is everyone going to sleep, but also how can I really experience the place I'm visiting? That's why I book a stay on Airbnb for family trips. We get to stay in neighborhoods where locals actually live and really connect with the city through authentic experiences. Plus, everyone can spread out with separate bedrooms, like my son's bedtime, doesn't have to be my bedtime. And we've got a real kitchen to cook some meals together if we end up staying in. It's also way more cost effective than booking multiple hotel rooms. We all get our own space, but still come together to create those genuine memories. For that kind of trip, hotels just don't give us what we need. Find a home for your next family adventure on Airbnb. - First off, it was when I got the phone call that I had booked the gig. It was the hottest job in town. - Woo! - Come on! I got that coveted spot and my life changed from one phone call. But then there was another moment, which was when I heard this is me back for the first time with Joe's voice on it. And the Jonas Brothers were already making a name for themselves, already had a career. And I was like, holy (beep) like this is gonna change my life. - And this is me, this is where I'm supposed to be. - Yeah, and so I knew when I heard that song that my life was gonna be different and it was a moment I'll never forget. - Oh my God. And then you stepped back on the stage with the Jonas Brothers recently. What was they doing? - What is that like when y'all, 'cause it's almost like surreal, it's like we still up in this thing. We've been over 20 years, y'all. What's up? What does that feel like to have those moments? You guys created the moments that have really symbolized at least the beginning of you building your brands and your career and you're still here together. - Yeah, well I was 15 the first time that we ever performed together. So to be 15 and then last year when I performed with them, it had been 17, 18 years since the first time we had stopped on stage together. And it was so nostalgic. I like almost cried when I heard the intro to the song like about to go on stage. I was like, this is so magical and you know, it was great seeing them and it was really special. - It's very surreal. I remember when we and Nick did "Scream Queens" together and it was just like, last time I seeing you, we was doing a damn jingle jam tour. - Yes. - You didn't have a jingle jam tour back in the day. - Oh my God, yeah. - It was such a sub-culture when we look back. Like it's like radio shows. - All of them radio shows. - And you did the circuit, you did it. Yeah, you did them. You would say hi and meet new people, make friends. It was so fun. - It was so fun and it was really little kids with jobs. - Yeah. - Which is just so funny to me. When you look back on that era, whether it's sunny with a chance or camp rock, like what stands out to you, you know, or what might be surprising to fans about what you look back on that time and think? - Wow. I mean, there's so many emotions that come to mind when I think about that period of time in my life. I have a lot of compassion for my younger self because we were held to such high standards at such a young age that like I really have compassion for myself and an understanding of what I was going through. I think I was so hard on myself at the time that I wish I had had more grace for myself. And looking back, like, you know, I can have that grace and compassion for my inner child today. But I also have so much gratitude. I mean, those years, those were the years that started it all for me. And I have very fond memories. Some not so fond memories of the struggling that I had when filming those shows, you know, being having struggled with and eating disorder while in camera was really challenging. I struggled with my mental health very much so. But ultimately, like, very fond memories. I made friends that I will have for the rest of my life. - Oh my gosh, I love that. So when did you feel like this kind of zooming out started happening for you? Were you able to kind of separate from, you know, your childhood and see what you experienced with new set of eyes? When would you say that started happening for you? - You know, when I first, I had like this breakdown right after this Camp Rock II tour that I did, I had an incident where I basically had a breakdown and it caused me to do a lot of reflection. And so a couple of years after going through that and dealing and going through the program of alcoholics anonymous, there's a step in there. The ninth step is to make amends. So I had to make amends to a lot of people saying like, I'm sorry, I was so challenging to work with at the time. I was so miserable in my own skin and dealing with what I was going through that I wasn't the nicest person to work with at the time. And I think that chapter of my life where I was being really reflective of everything and I wanted to make sure, I wanted to write my wrongs. And so that was like a few years after Disney Channel. And then I've continued to reflect and over the years I've just gained more and more compassion especially after shooting child star. Just getting to have conversations with people that were in the same position as I was was really impactful and it made me really reflective on that as well. And so yeah, I've just continued to have grace and compassion for myself. - What I love so much as you said that I think is really important. I want to pull it out because I think it applies to anyone is that we get into these, we don't even know sometimes the decisions that we're making are because we're hating ourselves for things we did to survive. - Yes. - Oh my God. - You know what I mean? That's so important what you just said because a lot of times we don't know why we put ourselves in these situations but we're putting ourselves in situations that aren't really helping us. They're actually hurting us. And it's actually because we're mad at ourselves. - Yes. - And we're mad at ourselves about (beep) but we were just trying to do to move forward. Like whatever you, whatever mad attitude or whatever you were doing and we're making you difficult. It's like, that's what you had to do to get through. - And I mean I was 17, like 16, 17, like, I don't know. I just wasn't always the nicest because what happened was when people would come on set and they'd say, good morning Demi, how are you? In my head, I would literally think you don't care about me. You're just, you don't really care how I'm doing. - But it was true though, you weren't wrong. Not to say that, right? - No, but it's true. - But it's, you were dealing with, that's actually valid. - And I just wanted so badly for someone to see that I was struggling and when I ended up having my breakdown, like everyone did and I was able to explain to people afterwards, like it wasn't personal, like when I showed up and was bratty on set, like that was not my intention. I was just doing like exactly what you said, doing what I had to do to survive. - And I know exactly what you mean when you talk about. So what I did was this weird thing that I'm now trying to get myself out of where because everybody wanted me to be great all the time and I knew when they would ask that they really didn't think I was fine. I became like the satirical character that everybody knows me to be today, which is, yes, like I became, I would go overboard because I'd be so mad, like I would be inside actually kind of angry. And so instead I would just be like, yes. It was my version of trying to like fight back against that same feeling that you're talking about where you know that the adults around you just want you to do the (beep) job. They just want you to do the job. - So they're saying everything and doing everything, but it's fake. And so that was me being like fake bad. - Yes, you know. - So it's like I really do relate to what you're saying because it can kind of drive you crazy. And it's like there is no right or wrong way even as an adult to deal with that level of intensity. And so I just think it's great what you're saying because whether people was child entertainers or whatever, like we all have moments in our lives where we didn't give ourselves grace for what we were trying to do to move forward and to survive. And we can end up making choices in our lives because we forgot to forgive ourselves. - Oh God. - And it's like damn, that's so true and so powerful. But that's what you said. So I want to make sure that. - The folks I wrote it in out. - You know, you said something before too that I really relate to where you said, I wish somebody had told me I was beautiful because at the time you didn't believe it. When you, if somebody did tell you that, 'cause I think when we hear beautiful we just think like on the surface. But it's still, I imagine you mean something so much more deeper than just beautiful, but just like, I'm important beyond this. or what I'm servicing. Well, the reality was I had so many people telling me I was beautiful. I had millions of people online or in-person fans that I would meet. You're so beautiful or whatever it was. But I guess what I was saying with that sentiment was like, "I wanted someone to see me." I wanted someone to experience me. I think I wanted someone to see my soul, even though my soul was hurting, I wanted to be experienced as a human. Also, the fact of the matter was, I was really struggling with my body image and my self-worth. To be told, you're beautiful, I wouldn't have even been able to hear it because I was struggling so deeply. But what I wanted was to be seen on a spiritual level, on an emotional human level. Yeah, and I think that tracks. That's why so many times we do try to outsource our ideas of beauty or externalize it in being a size 2 or being these perfect eyes or lips or whatever, basically because we're trying to figure out how to be experienced and how to reach that feeling that we're trying to get. But so much of the world constantly keeps telling us that it's outside of ourselves that we reach for some of these things that lead us in this weird path of just like, now I've got to buy this new outfit. Well, there's billions of dollars in the beauty industry that constantly is telling us we need something new and something more to compete or to hold a candle to other people. It's just like, if we fall victim to that, we're just constantly going to compare ourselves to other people for the rest of our lives. And I fall victim to it too, you know, buy the skin care, I buy the products, I get a little Botox, or whatever it is, but I do have to check myself sometimes and be like, all of this is going to fade at some point. And what's left is going to be my soul. How I attract people is not going to come from the outside, it's going to come from within. And if I can start doing that now, like that's, I don't know, that's the type of person I want to be, I want to exude beauty from my heart and not just from my skin. What is being seen and experienced, because I really love how you put that, because I've really relate to it, what does it look like for you, for people to really, when people really are seeing you, the people in your life that get a chance to know you. What does it, what does it mean when you feel like they're seeing you and their experience in the real you? Yeah. I think last night I sent a picture to one of my best friends in the world, her name is Ali. I sent a picture with like my silk hair cap on my retainer and my glasses on right before bed. And it was like, you know, and it's like, she's seeing the real me. My husband sees the real me every time we go to bed and and and wake up in the morning. He sees the real me and it's just like, it's flaws and all and there's still acceptance and what's important is there's love there. And that connection is the most important thing to me in my life. My career is so important to me, but it could all go away as long as I have my friends and my family and my husband, like, that's what's so important to me. Oh, I feel the same as that. Because no job is going to be waiting with you when you're under your deathbed. No. No job is going to be there. It's going to be the human connections that you've made in this lifetime. And that's what I hold on to. That's what I cherish. I love that. I also love the idea of whenever I can be in complete silence with somebody. Yes. Oh, my God. Yes. But we feel so connected. Yes. That gives me life. Oh, my God. Yes. Come over. We'll watch a little TV. We'll set in silence. We'll, like, I just want to be with you. When did, and maybe it was like this from the beginning for you, but when did it go from just like, this is what I love to do, I'm a kid, and I'm having fun to, this is a business. This is my career, and I'm a business woman. When would you say that shift happened when I started making money, period, so immediately? I knew that immediately, exactly, exactly when I started getting the checks from Barney, which were not very much, I realized that this was a job, and I had a responsibility. And it was to show up on set, memorize my lines, and do the work, and so that I could granted the money that I was making it did go back into the family, but it also went into molding the rest of my career, which was it paid for voice lessons, it paid for guitar lessons, it paid for piano lessons, it paid for dance lessons. And all of that, I worked really, really very hard to get to where I am today. But it did, you know, I realized that it was a job, the very first paycheck I got. And when the kids made fun of me at school for being on Barney, I would say I'm laughing all the way to the bank. And yeah, they had nothing to say to that. Kids hating that young is crazy to me, because what kind of mom and daddy you got? Why you hating that young? I know. It's crazy. You speak so publicly, you're annoying, like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, you know, like, come on, boo. Yeah. You speak so publicly about everything you're going through, you know, you talk about identity, you've talked about medication, you've talked about everything. Yeah. Does it ever feel, do you ever be like, oh, maybe I should, you know, like, do you ever feel like, I always suppose, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's how I feel sometimes when I'm talking about that. I feel like I am, like, I'm a champion at oversharing period, but I feel like it's also created a space for my fans to share with me what they're going through or provide a sense of connection with them where they, you know, I have fans come up to me and tell me they're deepest, darkest secrets because they have no one else in their lives to tell that to. And when I'm able to, when I'm able to take a step back and, and think, like, wow, this is so important to them and they feel safe enough to tell me these things, like, that means so much to me to, I relate to my, the connection that I have with my fans is so special. Like, I feel like there's a lot of fan bases out there with their artists that, that don't have the connection that I have with my lovotics because I've, I've shared so much that they just feel, they feel safe enough to connect with me and it's really truly special. And that's why when I'm at my shows and they're crying in the front row, like, I don't just think, oh, they're excited to see me. It's like, what are we healing tonight at the show? What are we healing together? Because I know my fans, I've shared a lot of trauma, but my fans have shared a lot of trauma with me and there's a connection that we have that's unbreakable and is so special and like, I will be forever indebted to them for. I think that's so key what you're saying, too, because a lot of times people are looking on the outside looking in, meaning they don't understand the context of the relationship they're witnessing with someone in their fan base. So they may see something like, what they doing? And it's like, this is the A and B conversation. You got to see your way out of it. As it becomes, like you said, with your lovotics, what do you think about like, because we came up when the digital world started to really begin and blow up. How much do you think that has lent itself positively to you, you know, in this relationship and just the evolution of your career? Well, it's positive and negative. Like, I've, I've said things on the internet that I regret, but like, because I was 15 when I started out on social media and I had this giant platform that I didn't know was, I didn't understand the gravity of it or the responsibility of it. But there's been so many perks where like, I've been able to, like I said, have that line of connection with my fans and because I've shared so much, they just feel connected to me. I feel connected to them and it's a beautiful thing. I love that. Sorry, not sorry, it felt like a big pivotal moment for you. Yeah. You know, what shifted for you during that era? You know what I love? When people show up with genuine intentions, especially when it comes to dating. My girls and I were just talking about how the best connections happen when someone puts in real effort from the jump and Bumble is definitely on to something because they're making it easy to find people who really want to get to know and date the real you from the beginning through features like Bumble compliments. Someone can show genuine interest in something on your profile like your love of cooking or that cute hiking photo. I'll see you, boo. All before you even match that kind of meaningful connection changes the whole vibe. That's why it's the dating app my girlfriends use and trust. And let's talk about safety because that matters. Bumble has photo verification and ID verification built right in. You can be at ease knowing the person you're chatting with is actually who they say they are. That piece of mine, it's a non-negotiable. Ready to connect with people who bring the same energy as you? Download Bumble. Now. I have a problem and the problem is my brain will not let me rest. Like last week I was supposed to be going to sleep and instead I spent two hours trying to figure out why we cringe at our old photos. Like what is it with that? Is it psychological? Is it ego? I need to know. So I've been using Claude with me. which is an AI that actually thinks through stuff with you. It's not giving you some little surface level answer in Dippin. It asks questions back. It goes down the rabbit hole with you, which is dangerous for me personally. But I love it. And here's the thing. Enthropic, the company that makes claw it, committed to keeping it ad-free. (laughs) So when you're in the middle of your 1a and spiral, your conversation stays yours. No random sponsored ads, just you and your thoughts, which for me is a lot. If your brain never sheds up, claw gets it. Try clawed for free at claw.ai/kiki-pommer. And see why problem solvers choose clawed as their thinking partner. Sorry not sorry. Well, that day that I made that song, I knew it was gonna be a hit. And I was still-- I love a girl with a ear. (laughs) Another one. (laughs) Yeah, I was like, I walked away from that studio session being like, oh, we made something really great. And I was so excited about it. I think in that time of my life, I was also, I was in the process of healing from a lot that I had gone through, but I was still damaged and still struggling to a certain degree. I think for the first time in my life, I can say now, and especially with this last album that I made, it's so celebratory because I'm no longer in a place of needing to trauma dump on people or, you know, sing extremely emotional songs to heal parts of myself that I hadn't healed before. Now I feel like, I'm not completely healed. We obviously all have work to still do on ourselves, but I'm at a place in my life where I can sit back and enjoy the fruits of my, you know, emotional and therapeutic labor. And I can just have fun. And like, that's why I'm so excited to go on tours because every night I'm just gonna be having so much fun. And it's just gonna be like a giant dance party with my fans. I love what you're saying with that because I do think sometimes as artists, there's this idea that we gotta just, not only do we have to believe, but we gotta bleed on air body. - Yes, like we, you know, and you feel like you're, it's not real, you're not doing it. If you're not doing that, you know what I mean? But it actually is like, it's not sustainable. And it's like, your work can speak to your experiences, I think, in a way that doesn't mean that you have to like, keep reliving it. - Yes, I used to think, I glamorized the struggle in creative, you know, the, the artist that really struggled and was going through so much. I thought that I always had to be going through something in order to evolve. And it's like sometimes you can just evolve, do the work and then sit back and relax and enjoy the rest of the show. You know, it's like, I feel like that was a growing point for me was in the last few years where I was like, wait, there's nothing that's causing me pain right now and I'm okay, like I don't have to make an album out of, from pain, like I can make an album out of, you know, celebrating the love that came into my life when I met my husband and embracing, you know, my sexuality and writing about that. And, you know, it's just, yeah, it was very empowering, very fun for me and I'm excited to go on tour. - Yes, I'm excited for you too. Now one of your more recent past albums, Dancing with the Devil, the Art of Starting Over, it also felt very intentional. And, I mean, what makes starting over an art? - That's a good question. I think I've had to start over so many times that I feel like I became a pro at it. - Period. - I've gone through so many things that could have broken me and at times it did, but I picked up the pieces and was like, I'm a survivor, I'm gonna keep fighting. And I, there is an art to picking up the pieces and so that's why I wrote a song about it. - I love it. There is an art to picking up the pieces and we all have to. - We all have to. - That's what life is about, that's how you keep going. - You're never gonna stay completely, you know? - So I know your fans will love this. I wanna do a quick rapid fire of your music. - Okay. - So, song that was the hardest to write. - Maybe Dancing with the Devil. Or a song that I had from my catalog called Warrior. They were both about very emotional things that I've been through in my life. Warrior was about essay and, you know, also 29 was another song that was really, I wanted, it was really powerful for me to write because it was healing for me and like all of the songs that I just named, they were all healing for me, but because they were so healing, they were so important to me, I wanted to make sure that every lyric was perfect. - Yes. - And so I put, it was very, very intentional and I think those were the most challenging songs to write. - Imagine I said kiss. (laughing) - I kissed for fun. - I'm howling it. - Well, you know, sometimes simple is difficult, no. - A song that feels like therapy. I mean, all the ones I just named, but most recently I would say let you go. Let you go is a song off of my most recent album, it's not that deep and I think that song to me, I wrote, you know, from personal experience and I had to get it out. It felt so cathartic for me to put, you know, pen to paper and get these words out and so many people have related, so I'm so glad I did, but I think that's the one that felt the most therapeutic in most recent times. - Which song in your catalog do you think deserved way more love than it got? My last album. (laughing) No, my last album got a lot of love. I'm really grateful for it. But like, I feel like, you know, maybe let you go. Like, I'm really, really proud. I hit a really (beep) high note in that song that I'm really proud of and I would love for it to have gotten a little bit more love than it did, but that's okay. - Yeah. - Who's an artist you want to collab with, but haven't yet? - I mean, I have to say, Lady Gaga. Lady Gaga would be, you guys would be great together. - I would love to say. - I'm actually surprised that that never hasn't happened yet. - That's gonna be around the corner. - That's a dream of mine. That's a big dream of mine. - Don't eat a rep on the track now. (laughing) - Don't let her eat me up on the track. - I'm scandalous for that. - How do you choose? (laughing) - No, she could eat me up. She could eat me up. - I don't say that about a lot of people, but she could eat me up. - Period. - I'm howling. - What would you say? - Let you know that a song is good, that you could pick a good, 'cause I feel like you have a great ear. - Thank you. - How did you train it? Like, what makes you know, like, oh, this is a song I gotta do, or this is the one? - Well, you know, I've like, really started second guessing my ear over the years, because it's been a minute since I've had a radio single. And like, I don't, we live in like, such a different industry than we did 15 years ago, where you could test things at radio and see what was gonna work. And then, and now it's just like, you just put it out there and you just cross your fingers, pray to God and hope it does well. You know, there's no like rhyme or reason, some songs go viral, some songs don't. And it's just like, it's a totally different industry than with the world of streaming and TikTok and Instagram. Like, all these things coming into play, it's just totally different. So I feel like it's, I have got feelings about songs that I do trust, but sometimes I second guess myself too, 'cause I don't, nobody knows what works today, you know? - No, they don't. And what means a radio hit and all that kind of stuff is so technical and it's so, I feel like it's so involved. - Well, you also have to have people that are willing to put things at radio. - You knew what I'm saying? - Yeah. - So it's so that, it's so industry and institution, but you know, so it's kind of like, it's very difficult with a lot of that. And I really hope that artists today understand that and don't take it to heart, you know what I'm saying? Because, and it's so, by the way, when you do have a hit, they don't last like they used to. You know, used to, you'd have a hit on the radio for, you know, several years. And it's like, now it's, it's so fast. Everyone's attention span is so cooked that like we're onto the next song so fast. That like, it's just don't get discouraged about that because you have so many opportunities. Now, if you just keep plugging away, you just keep going. You can give yourself so many more opportunities to try and try again. And one will take and five might not. But like, you know, you'll, or maybe more. It doesn't, it doesn't matter. You just gotta keep going. - Yeah, and building your brand, what is your identity? 'Cause that's like, regardless of whether you're doing music or acting or dancing or all of the above, like people are gonna know that it's you. - Yeah. - You know what I'm saying? Your new album, it's not that deep. It's light, it's fun. I love the performance when we did the TikTok live fest. - Things too. - I mean, how are you feeling about this? I know we're just mentioning you going on tour, but what inspired the title in this chapter of your life? - The title came from a song called Kiss on the album. - Okay. And it's a lyric in there, it's not that deep unless you want it to be. And it's like a sexy fun lyric and a sexy fun song. What really inspired this album, I would say is my husband. My husband, he's getting a lot of love. He's getting so much love. But like, I just love him so much. And I would say like when I first started making this album, I was coming off of a rock album. My last album was before it's not that deep, it was called Holy ****, it was a rock album. And it was a vibe. Like, I still love that album so much. And that's where I actually met my husband. He was brought in as a songwriter on some of my songs. And I immediately had a crush on him. It was, yeah. So who asked out who first? Sorry. It was kind of like a mutual thing. We first started off as friends. And we were just friends for a few months. I was going through a lot at the time. And he was, he was there for me. Like, he was in the beginning of our friendship was really, truly there for me and was an ear for me to vent to about things that I was going through in my life. And then he, we started hanging out. And then eventually something just clicked and the rest was history. So like, it was a dream. And basically coming off of that album, I thought I wanted to do another rock album. OK. And so the difference was is when I made Holy **** I had so much healing to do still. I had recently come out of treatment. And I had so much healing that I wanted to do and topics that I wanted to talk about. I had a lot of anger, a lot of sadness that I needed to write about. So when I was like, I'm going to write another rock album. I got into the studio and was like, wait, I'm newly in love and so happy. And there's only so many like happy rock songs you can write. And I was like, I don't know where to find inspiration for this so much sonically, my album changed. And it turned into what it is today. It's not that deep. And it's just a fun celebratory pop album. And like, I love that. And I have so much fun singing and performing it. Yeah, I love that. I mean, we've got to have fun. There's enough struts. We rockin' it out in the real world. Yeah, it's good to turn on the album and take me to another stratosphere. Yeah, definitely. That's what I think it's important for right now. You do Jiu-Jitsu? I do. I haven't done it in a while. I injured my back and it kind of like scarred me. I didn't enter it during Jiu-Jitsu, but I had, I got a herniated desk and was like, I need to stay away from Jiu-Jitsu. So I took like a year and a half, two years of a break, but I am a purple belt. Damn, girl. Well, would you ever do Pilates with me and teach you? Oh my god, let's superl, I love Pilates. Pilates is different than Jiu-Jitsu, but we can do Pilates. I would definitely go with you. Girl, yes. I'm always looking for a Pilates buddy, too. Girl, it just makes your life good to just know that you're in there and you've killed every series that they layered upon you. Yes. Oh my gosh. Okay, we have to get into something that the world really wants to get into, which is the world of Jimmy Lovato memes. Oh, let's go. A favorite world, that to be up in, girl. We've got to talk about Poo Lovato. Oh my god, well Poo's still in the basement. Girl, Poo is everything. And the fact that she made it to Halloween costume. Yes. Oh my gosh. That was so much fun. Girl, what do you be thinking when the lore of the videos, like when you've seen your first, I mean, you're so memeable. What do you think of it? How do you feel about it? So at first, when Poo first came about, I was like, oh no, someone got a really unflattering angle of me and they put it on the internet. And now it's a meme and it's going viral and everyone laughing at me for my bad angle. And someone was like, no, it was Photoshopped. I was like, oh. And so I began to laugh at it too. And then even now I'm like, even if it is just a bad angle, it's not Photoshopped, I'll laugh at it 'cause it's never too soon to laugh for yourself. And I just like, in this era, was just like, I'm gonna take the power back and start having fun with some of the memes that, you know, the mug meme girl. And by the way, it was a really good response. I personally like, oh, like, I don't, the people don't understand. We're in these interviews and they're asking all this strange (beep) Okay, what did you talk about my favorite day? And let me tell you the story about that meme. I actually, I really was in on the joke. I had been asked so many questions that day, I was doing like a press tour and you know, you get bored doing press tours, you're like, I'm gonna start (beep) the interviewers. And so I was like, I'm just gonna like, I know the answer to this question. She was like, what's your favorite dish? And I was like, a mug, and like, I just ran with it. And in the long extended video, you see me look at my tour manager and like, smirk, like, did you catch that one? That is true. And then that went viral and everyone thought I was serious and I'm like, you know what? Believe it, serious, I don't care. I thought that was so freaking hilarious, girl. It was so funny 'cause why did she say it? Just ask me what I like to eat. Tell me how my favorite dish, girl. You feel like the internet gets your sense of humor now? Now, yes. Yes, definitely. Yeah. But I also think if I were to repeat that question and no one had seen it, like people would still probably think that I was being serious. Right. So I don't know. Hey, whatever works. Whatever works. Well, let's get into this cookbook. I wanna take a moment with this. One plate at a time. I mean, recipes for finding freedom with food. This seems like a probably a big turning point for you, especially considering everything you were talking to me about earlier with how you looked at food and body and image. So when it got to this point of you writing this book or even getting to this point of in relationship with food, like, I mean, this is awesome. Thank you. It's been quite the journey. From the first time that I stepped foot into treatment, we had an outing one time. And it was, the outing was to go to the grocery store by ingredients for a recipe we were gonna make. And I remember stepping foot into the grocery store and just sobbing because I was so overwhelmed by so much food. I didn't know where to start. And to cut forward to, you know, however many years later, I now have a cookbook. It was like, I'm so proud of myself. And I've come so far. And I wanted to share that with other people who may also be struggling with disordered eating in their past and are wanting to take the next step in the kitchen. But also when I started making the book, I was like, wow, this book could be for anybody who's wanting to step foot into the kitchen for the first time. These are simple recipes. I'm not an expert in the kitchen. I'm not claiming to be. But I've gotten better since, you know, the first time I've cooked. But I basically, I wanted to help other people find freedom with food, just like I did. And the joy of cooking. It's such a healing thing for me to do for myself. And I wanted to provide this tool for other people that might be looking to start their journey in the kitchen. Let me go ahead and try this damn cookie, then. (laughing) Yeah. You know, poor mom. Poor mom. (laughing) They might still be warm, too. Oh my gosh, let's get it to them. It's so good. Girl, the cookie is good. (laughing) Yes. I'm gonna have to hit my little pin tonight and eat the whole box. (laughing) You're pinching me. My little pinch me, okay? Fabulous cookie. Okay. Thank you. Do you have a favorite thing you'd like to cook for yourself? So when I'm reading this, which one is your favorite? I would say there's so many things that I love to cook for myself in this book. If you're talking breakfast, I love the chilaquilas. I love the avocado toast. You put a fried egg on it. It's delicious. There's like-- Dinner is just morning. So good. There's spaghetti bolognese in there that we call spag bowl. It's like a abbreviated version. There's chicken mayonnaise with arugula. There's honeymoon chicken, which is like a spin on the marimew chicken recipes. There's a chili that I cook for everybody. And it's like cooking is kind of like my love language. You know, if my mom is around, like I'll cook for her and my husband, I love cooking for him. I love cooking with friends. Dessert-wise, you've got the chocolate chip cookies. You've got-- - Oh, me and my son are amazing. - The cookies are amazing. - Up to night. - Oh, good. - These cookies are so good, babe. - Thank you. - Seriously, okay, I know that you guys probably, I probably gotta get ready to go. But I have to play a game with you because I play with the game with all my guests. We're gonna play Demi Decides Disney Edition because you know, that's what the kids want. Okay, I'm gonna give you two Disney options and you have to lock in. And this is just first instinct only. Don't overthink it. Just tell it. - Explanation or no explanation? - You can give me an explanation if you want. - Okay, okay. Cheetah girls or Wendy Wu Homecoming Warrior? - Cheetah girls. - Come on, 'cause-- - Love the cheetah girl. - You can't put a cheetah girl in it. - Come on. - ♪ Hold on ♪ - Okay, Halloween, this one's mean. Halloween town or twitches. - That's tough. - I love Halloween town. - I mean, it's a club. - Anything from the early Disney days, it's gonna, you know what I mean, it's just, you know. Okay, Camp Rock or Sunny with a chance. - Ooh, I have to love for both of them. I have so much love for both of them, but I do accredit so much of my career to Camp Rock. - Yeah. - So I'd have to go with Camp Rock. - By the way, the song is coming back. You're executive producing. - I am. character coming back as well. You'll just have to watch and I think what I'm excited about is to usher in the new generation of actors She's gonna be a cat muffler you heard I don't know We'll be staying tuned. Um Zina on girl of the 21st century or smart house. No Zina. I love Zina Okay, last true. I'll do um Lizzie McGuire movie or cowbells Lizzie McGuire movie because Lizzie McGuire Confederation every time yes last one got to kick it up or jump in Jump fan. Yeah Thank you so much. Oh good. I've had a blast hanging with you. I've had so much fun with you. I'm so glad you think This was a great one Demi. Thank you so much for coming through and being honest. Funny All of it. I love watching a woman grow in real time and still choosing herself every single era Y'all already know what to do go get our cookbook stream the album and catch my girl on this tour coming up in spring And we'll see you next time on baby. This is Kiki Palmer. Where are my cookies?