Dem Candidate's WILD Texts Exposed, Lesbian Bar Drama, and Kamala's New Accent, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 1405

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show and happy Thursday. We've got a lot to get to today, including the full trailer for that documentary about Elizabeth Holmes that everyone is talking about. I cannot wait to go see this. Plus, we've got a Katie Porter out in Alaska. Yes, a brand new Katie Porter. That's not her name, but she's another Katie Porter. She's a Democrat and she is in contention to win this Republican seat as young, woke staffers for her are now leaking texts to The New York Times to try to make her look bad. Why are they doing that? I'm not going to lie, like part of this woman, I'm like, is this my spirit animal? She might secretly be a Republican. I'll tell you why. I think. Joining me now to react to this and so much more is the very first guest in the history of the MK show, our podfather, Glenn Greenwald. He is a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and host of System Update on Substack. For many people starting a fitness routine, going to the gym without a clear goal or structure often leads to random exercises and minimal progress. While traditional personal training offers structured strength training, it can often be cost prohibitive. And difficult to fit into your busy schedule. This is where the Ladder app comes in. Ladder, like a ladder that you climb. It will transform your daily routine. It acts like an elite personal trainer right in your headphones. Instead of random online workouts, members receive structured workout plans built by expert coaches with new programming updated weekly. The app automatically tracks reps and weights and features built-in AI nutrition tracking, all for less than $1 a day. How about that? It can eliminate all the guesswork from your daily fitness journey. Remove the guesswork with Ladder and get a real coach in your ear telling you exactly what to do for every workout. If you have an iPhone, head to ladder.fit and take a quick quiz to find your perfect ladder plan. Use my link and get a free 7-day trial with no credit card and $10 off your first month if you join. Check it out. I'll see you next time. Besides Dan Sullivan on the ballot, and one of them is also named Dan Sullivan. So this actually could flip and be part of the Democrats' scheme to take over control of the Senate. Democrats, according to the New York Times, are bullish about her chances. She's a former House representative to flip this seat. She's running on fish, family, and freedom. And she also seems to be a fan of a fourth F word. That is spelled F-A-G-G-O-T, according to the staffers, though she denies that one, Glenn. She admits apparently using retard, but she denies, forgive me, faggot. Interesting where the lines get drawn. But okay. So here's the story. A New York Times investigative report finds that she has a history of angry outbursts, high staff turnover, and alleged mistreatment of aides dating back to her time in Congress, and continuing into her current campaign. They deny a pattern of abuse, the campaign did when asked, and attribute some incidents to grief after the deaths of her mother and husband in 2023. Multiple former staffers describe frequent angry, sometimes profane blowups. One incident involved Peltola allegedly shoving an aide in the chest. What I love the most is the campaign's responses to the allegations. Okay, there's a bunch of them. I'll give you the first one here. Frustrated that she could not find a memo for a meeting, Ms. Peltola shoved a male employee in the chest with one hand, causing him to stumble backward, according to a person who was there, and two others who heard about the incident soon after. The aide departed her team not too long after the alleged incident. How does the campaign respond? They deny that it was a shove. They say that Ms. Peltola had bumped the aide accidentally, and it was her husband's first birthday after his death, saying she was unfocused, Glenn. She was unfocused and riddled with grief, and it was a bump, not a shove, and this just, you know, thin-skinned employee departed, I guess, for no reason, and he didn't understand her immense grief. Then she disparaged Planned Parenthood. This is where she and I are aligned. She was frustrated about the organization's scrutiny of her deliberations on how to vote on a defense bill that included anti-abortion policies, she writes, quote, I hope Planned Parenthood knows that if we don't win, it's more their loss than ours. Fuck those bitches! She wrote a text message in January of 2024. Later that year, appearing to refer to a woman on the board of the local Planned Parenthood chapter, she wrote in another text, I hope she dies of a botched abortion. She's got an anger problem, this lady. Planned Parenthood, whose political arm had endorsed Ms. Peltola's previous campaigns, did not endorse her this year. So, what a shock. Sometimes she jumped up and down and stomped her feet, three of her former aides said. Two of the aides described one instance in 2024 when she was so frustrated that she swept stacks of papers on her desk into the air in a way, two people said, looked like a scene out of Veep. Now, here's the campaign's denial there. Here. They dispute the description. They said she had shuffled papers off her desk in frustration. She did not sweep stacks into the air. She shuffled in frustration, Glenn. So, it was not, let's see if I, can we zoom out here? Let me, let's, we can do, we can try a demonstration. Hello? Let's zoom out. Can we? Okay, here we go. You can see me. So, this is the closest thing I have to a stack. It was not a, it was not a sweeping. It was just a shuffling. It was a shuffling and one of the papers inadvertently fell down off the desk. It's a totally different situation, Glenn. Hello? Just like it was a bump. It wasn't a shove. I don't know what's wrong with these thin-skinned staffers who are trying to make her into our old pal, Sot 30. That we're going to lose more than half a million Californians dying? Prematurely? To air pollution and other problems? And the state could lose four- Get out of my fucking shot! I wanted to tell you that that's actually incorrect. It's not that it's electric vehicles. It's that if we don't meet the commitments under the Paris Climate Accord. Okay, it does, okay. You also were in my shot before that. Stay out of my shot. Okay, I'm going to start again with electric vehicles saving us money. Perfect. Okay. Okay. Katie Porter. But this is not Katie Porter. This is a different gal named Mary Peltola. Remember the name because I have a feeling we're going to get a lot more about this lady in the coming month. Your thoughts? Well, first of all, it's not just Katie Porter who had this kind of discussion around her, but also before that in 2020, Amy Klobuchar and a lot of her stories were actually the worst among the three. She was like throwing statements. I don't know what's going on with these white liberal Democratic women in politics, but it seems to be a trend now. I want to separate these two things out because one is what a lot of people are reacting to, which are the use of naughty words in private. The word faggot, the word retard. In general, it's not great to use these words in public. She didn't really use them in public. Let's face it. We all say things in private with our friends, with our colleagues that we wouldn't say in public. And I think that's how it should be. Those don't really bother me at all. But, you know, then there's things like, hey, I hope she dies of a botched abortion. That's a little harsh, even in private. But, you know, this kind of like, yeah, that's pretty good. I don't know where that comes from, but that's some dark, dark place that produces a thought like that. But, you know, so you have the kind of like private comment. I do think that. You know, as a matter of fact, this is what I teach my kids, like almost more than anything else. It's like the measure of your character is how you treat not people who can do things for you, because everybody treats people well, who can do things for them, like bosses or people with money or power or whatever. But how you treat people who don't have any power over you and not just how you treat them in public, like everybody goes and does charity in public, but how you treat them when nobody's looking. And so if you're abusing your staffers and look, I know losing your husband or your spouse or whatever, or kinds of. things in your family can affect your behavior. I don't think that's an excuse, however, for like abusing other people. It's an excuse for like missing work. I've had massive loss in the past few years in my family. It didn't cause me to abuse my staff. Exactly. Or start maltreating people. Like, I'm sorry that I understand that can affect behavior, but you're an adult. You still have a responsibility to treat others respectfully. And I do think that is a major character flaw. If you are treating people over whom you have power in these very abusive ways, especially if it turns physical, like even you can't go around just pushing people because they're dependent on you or they work for you. It was a bump. No, I do want to congratulate you on your reenaction skills. However, the difference between throwing papers off the table and just that little shuffle that causes one accidentally, gently to fall on the floor. It's a shuffle. Exactly. Shuffle. But yeah, the staff keeps getting things confused. You know, I do want to say one interesting thing, though, is Mary, Mary Patrola is she ran for state wide house seat in Alaska, which has always been a red state in the last few decades, but it's becoming less and less so. And, you know, even when they have Republicans like Lisa Murkowski, they tend to be the more like Susan Collins type Republicans that they like to enact elect. But this woman, when she was running for the Democratic House, he was running against Sarah Palin. And even during the election, Sarah Palin was like, this is a great woman. I've known her forever. She's a wonderful character. You know, typically she's been these people who have been a person who gets very praised. But again, I do think a lot of people treat like peers and people in power differently than they treat people who don't have power or a similar position. And this I find to be an extremely sinister character trait, like really reflects poorly on. Yes. She has an anger management problem. And you're exactly right. Why? Why is this such a trend with these liberal Democratic women? Like, what are they so angry about? Calm down on like, I got my theory. I really think they need to get some and then they'd be happier. That's my back of the envelope take on it, especially Katie Porter. I need to know Mary Peltola better. But OK, there's more. So she, let's see. Yeah, shuffle. It was a shuffle. It was not a sweep. OK. She also sometimes cut people out. Now, this is ridiculous. She cut people out altogether if she concluded they had wronged her. Now, I like this. I like this piece. I have to say, this is something I've always admired about Scientology. I've told the audiences before that if you are determined by one of these Scientologists to be what they considered a suppressive person, you're out. They will make sure no one around them even ever mentions your name. And like, I've had this done to me by a Scientologist and I actually kind of thought it's kind of a good idea. Like, I don't have an issue. You know who's also good about Scientology? You know who's also good at that? Is Trump. Trump is, Trump likes to get vengeance against somebody, but in general, one wrong act against Trump, disloyal act, and you are gone. As you know. Yeah. Yeah. But with the Scientologists, and I guess maybe with Mary, it's not just that you're gone, like they won't take your calls or call you. No one can mention your name to them. Yeah, you're a non-person. So like it, yes, so this person might be like, the mm show at 9 p.m. ran a science show. It might be a soundbite from Anna Nicole Smith. Do we want that? But the answer would be no, we don't want that because nothing having to do with the person who shall not be named shall come anywhere near, right? So it's like, it's just, I think it's a good idea. I'm not criticizing it. But this woman's not a Scientologist as far as I know, but she's got a similar policy, which the New York Times is, painting as bad. Now, she cut people out altogether if she concluded they had wronged her. They said, she would quote nothing them according to three former staff members and a text message viewed by the Times using a phrase of dismissal popularized on the TV show Scrubs, where she would say about somebody, I don't like them. Honestly, I nothing him. Okay, this is a ridiculous avenue of attack. But then here in here, they say that she's, she doesn't like you. She might also say of you, fuck that retard. And that she also, use the F word, a derogatory term against gays. I have to say, it's not a nice, neither of those is nice, but I do make a bit of a distinction between the two. Because I think that the R word is like when we grew up, it actually was totally fine. You were not trying to disparage actually mentally slow people. It was kind of accepted as a word that just generally meant you were slow. It wasn't like meant to make fun of people who were genuinely slow. And then of course, we got really like picky about people's language. And then the word retard went, you know, suddenly you were, you hate the disabled. The F word I think has been sufficiently tied to like disdain for gay people that I see that as like particularly nasty, but those are my standards, Glenn. I don't behind closed doors. Are we really not supposed to vote for her because she talks like a gen X person around 1988? - Exactly. You know, by the way, Louis CK has a very hilarious little take on this where he talks about how he doesn't understand why the word retarded has become like a prohibited taboo word because when he said when he was growing up in the seventies, this was definitely the case for me too. You know, teachers would just be like, ah, stop it, he's retarded. And he says like, do you know why they called him retarded? Because he was retarded. Like it was just, it was never really like a word that was intended to offend. It was like a descriptive word of an actual, cognitive disability, like an impairment. And it is strange, but yeah, you know, I think, I don't think there's anything wrong with like having language evolve and certain words just becoming like rude. You know, like, it's not like you should go to jail for using them. It's kind of like a question of etiquette and it's fine. But I really would like to know like who among us doesn't use words in private that we wouldn't use in public. I certainly do, especially in the context, like you're talking to a good friend, you know, sometimes you use it ironically as a joke. They understand your intention, you know, who among us could survive like having all our private - And I think that the R word, the R word is becoming a more subversive thing to say now. Anyway, it's kind of back in vogue as like, F you, I'm not abiding by your woke language police. I'm going to call you a retard. And it doesn't mean I don't like disabled people, or I think they're disgusting or I want them to be put down. It's like, by the way, it's weird because if memory serves, there's like three categories. Categorization, categories of people who have issues when it comes to like how, how well their brain works. There's retarded, there's a moron. You can be like, literally there, this used to be a term used in psychiatry. I think retard, moron, and imbecile. I think these are like gradations that used to be totally accepted within like the medical community. I'll check on this, but I'm pretty sure I was told this by a psychiatrist once. You can still call someone a moron. You can still call somebody a moron. You can call them an imbecile. Like I'm not sure what happened to that, to the word retard, whatever. It's not something that's important to me. I'm just saying like, they're making it sound like she used the N word in private. And like, come on, she didn't not, not that we know of anyway. Yeah. And also, I, again, like I do, I do think context and intent matter so much in terms of how you're using this word. Like I see people online all the time using the word faggot, not even to refer to people who are gay. And it's kind of like, I understand the intent of it. It doesn't even bother me because it's not intended to be like this malicious attack on a certain group of people. It's just a word that got prohibited. And now it's back in vogue because we refuse to prohibit it. Even when I was growing up, that was a word that was used. Obviously it had these anti-gay connotations, but it was much, it was used much more broadly. I think it was unfortunate that New York Times totally mixes these two things together. You know, these two, like one, which is a real character issue and the other, which is like kind of just woke PC language patrolling. But you know, this is one of the problems. Yes. And being in democratic party politics is that you subject yourself and she, I'm sure if you look, you can find her enforcing a lot of these kind of woke laws on other people. And eventually it comes for you as well. That's a big problem in, in left liberal politics. I want to ask you just one quick thing. Like I'm the last person to be, to find like gendered, you know, kind of analysis or apply it where it doesn't belong. But you know, high stress workplaces often have like pretty aggressive, abusive bosses who like may react in a stressful situation in a very aggressive way. And then outside of that stressful situation, they're just, you know, they're kind of normal. They're perfectly polite, but with stress, they just get, you know, throw things, demand things like in Wall Street, Hollywood politics, you hear this all the time. And I do wonder, especially in liberal politics, whether people take that for men, whereas with women, there's an expectation that they're supposed to be kind of more demure and it just comes off as more, more alienating somehow. I do think there's a component of that. I just wonder what you think about that. - 100%. Well, I'm sure. I mean, like if we really scoured our minds, I'm sure we could come up with an example of some male bully who'd been outed like this in a race. Nothing's coming to mind off the top of my head. - Well, like Rahm Emanuel's brother has like, is now has this new book out, Ari Emanuel, who's the big super agent in Hollywood. And he's notorious for the most vile, foul, vulgar attacks on employees he has engaged in physical. And everyone's kind of treating it as like a funny character flaw, like a little quirk that's key to his success. And that's what I'm saying. Yeah. And well, I think it also depends how powerful you are. I mean, Ari Emanuel has power, a lot of it. And so people might kind of respect it and admire it. You know, it's like, how did he do it? Oh, this volatile combination. And maybe if these women were higher up the food chain, I don't know. I mean, Senator didn't do it for Amy Klobuchar, but she doesn't project powerful either. You know, I don't know. I think maybe you could get away with it if you if you did. Well, I mean, she's probably going to be elected mayor, governor of Minnesota. So it doesn't really seem to have had like she's almost certain to be elected. It doesn't seem to have really harmed her in the long run. I mean, I think most of us forgotten the stuff about Amy Klobuchar. The one I remember was she was she was eating her salad on a plane with a with a comb, a hair pick, like a comb. Yeah, a comb. And then and then didn't she like whip it at somebody? I can't remember. She had a stapler and an AIDS head and a male AIDS head, like an actual stapler, like which is pretty heavy. She like just chucked it in anger. Physical abuse. We all need to be clear that the line is definitely on the on this side of physical abuse. It's a no. That's why it's it wasn't a shove. It was a bump. But wait, there's more. There's more. I haven't even gotten my favorite part now. Oh, by the way, she regrets using the R word, but denies the F word. OK. During her brief house tenure. Peltola had one of the just I just need to hear from this woman before we go further. We played in Katie Porter bite. Well, we didn't play a Mary Peltola bite. Nobody knows who she is. Here she is denying. Well, at least responding to The New York Times report via Fox News. Watch this. Mary, give a response to The New York Times. Hey, guys, we can get you a statement. We're happy to chat. OK. Any response to the allegations that she called multiple staffers? Homophobic slurs. We can get you a statement on this later. I have a statement that's in The Times. OK. I haven't read the piece myself. OK. But appreciate you guys coming out. Thank you. We'll get you something. You have my number. We'll be in touch. I mean, is there any credence to the claims that she pushed Stafford hearing? There's a statement in The Times. It was a bump. OK, that was a staffer. That wasn't her. But here's her. Here she is. In all of her public appearances, so far as we can find, she's extremely boring, extremely boring. So there is. It is like, oh, who is she? Who is this person for real? Here, watch. Alaska really is at the end of the supply chain, the logistics supply chain. And we are often paying much more than Hawaii is for their commodities. As another good example, and this is a price from two years ago, so I'll be interested to see how the price has gone up. But in Kaktovik, a community outside of Utqiagvik in the North Slope, a 60-tablet container of Advil. It was $68. So every single thing that we buy is impacted by the price of fuel. So it is kind of hard to picture. All right, wait, let me get to the next thing about her. I have got to get to your reaction to this. It's the best part of the piece. They point out during her house tenure, she had one of the highest staff turnover rates on Capitol Hill. What a shock. Aides cite her volatility as a major factor. Staff were required to feed live crickets. Glenn, to her family's pet chameleon, Meatball, both at her apartment and then later at the congressional office. Meatball was hungry, Glenn. His preferred diet consisted of live crickets, according to three staff members. I love that the New York Times is calling multiple staff members like, can we talk about Meatball? Confirm or deny the diet was live crickets. His preferred diet was live crickets. His preferred diet was live crickets, said three, including two who fed the chameleon. Peltola instructed aides to purchase the insects at a pet store and then feed them to Meatball. Abigail Finan, see how lucky you are. How could you possibly leave me? She's going home to be with her new baby. Anywho, aides initially went to Ms. Peltola's apartment in Washington to feed Meatball, but the congresswoman later brought the reptile into her office on Capitol Hill. Probably because her staff were complaining they didn't want to go to her house. On at least one occasion, the crickets escaped, Glenn, in the office and had to be recaptured, according to two former aides who witnessed it, as well as a photo viewed by the Times that showed aides in the office trying to trap the crickets using manila folders and small paper cups. Okay, there's more, but that's really, these are the best highlights. Yeah, you know, it's funny. First of all, when I was watching that, I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to die. And then when I was watching that interview she did with Lawrence O'Donnell, I honestly was thinking, you can earn not only my vote, I can't vote in Alaska, I guess, but you can earn my campaign contribution if you just do one thing, like let Lawrence O'Donnell ask you a question and look at him with like disdain and be like, what are you, retarded? I would like max out to her campaign immediately. I was hoping that was going to happen in that clip. Then the other thing is, I'm so angry that the New York Times has a photo. I wish they had video, which I would also pay to see, but how do they not show us the photo? I wish they had a photo of her aides being forced to like crawl around on the ground with manila folders and plastic cups trying to capture the live crickets that she made them buy to feed to her daughter's pet chameleon, Meatball. If they have that, that is something we have the right to see. I agree. It's a dereliction of journalistic duty. Totally. This is very, very wrong. How did they miss that opportunity? And I'm not sure about the manila folder to get the cricket. Paper cup, I can see. Yeah. And, you know, in their defense, it would be very annoying to have live crickets loose. Also, not everybody loves to like take live animals and just feed them into the mouth of some other animal. That's like a thing that I know a lot of people do, but not everybody's well equipped or wanting to do that. But it sounds like they were petrified of saying, look, I'd prefer not to do this because they would get pushed or like provoke some kind of like dangerous temper tantrum. Exactly. They could be the next one assaulted by Mary. Well, here's my question for you. Why is it? Why is the New York Times? Why is the New York Times doing this story? Because Mary Peltola is doing well now. She was not always before she won the primary, which was just in August. She wasn't doing as well in a hypothetical matchup against Sullivan. It was back in June, according to New York Times, the Annapole Sullivan up by 47. She had 45, not a huge lead on his part, but it was up. He was up over her now. Um, now she's leading him. And the race is narrowed quite a bit since, since she won the primary with her. I'm trying to find the exact percentage she's up, but it's not huge. Oh yeah. Oh, call she, by the way, which is not a betting site or which is not a polling site, but a betting site. They currently give the Democrat 72% to 28% for the Republican chance to win. That's and, and by the way, back in December of 2024, it was exactly the opposite. He had 72%, uh, to win. So why would the. New York times be doing this to her? You know, I mean, first of all, everyone knows the New York times institutionally is more aligned with the democratic party. They hate Trump. That's obvious and everything they've done in set over the last decade. But at the same time, like they, you know, you will get reporters in there who aren't so much motivated by ideology, but by careerism and they want, you know, scoops, they want stories. They want to get invited on cable news. And if they get handed to them, which they probably did, you know, disgruntled. A's probably came to the New York times reporters and started saying this stuff. They smell a story that helps their career. I think they're going to publish it, especially if they know that if they don't political will, or, you know, Axios or the Washington post or whatever. So a lot of it is just more like careerism over, over ideology. But the other thing is like the New York times does have reporters who are decent reporters, even though the institution is so biased. I mean, I think it's important to remember that basically the entire Hunter Biden story of what he did in, in Ukraine with Burisma, all of the stuff in China that was done by principally by a New York times reporter, Ken Vogel, who, who was great, you know, so you kind of like get, even in these institutions that are very politically biased and, and motivated, you do sometimes slip through good journalism because whether it's because people have a conscience about their, their work or because they just have a career interest in, in, in breaking stories. They don't care which, you know, we'll get through occasionally. It's not like it's absolute. So I think that's probably what happened here is once you get through. You get these kinds of people spreading this story around. If the New York times doesn't publish it, someone else is going to. Hmm. Well, uh, good luck to her. I actually look forward to covering her. If she winds up winning this Senate seat, she sounds like she's going to be a real laugh riot. She and meatball may be ascending to higher office. Okay. Um, let's keep going. A couple of other stories that have been in the news. We've been covering a lot here, like the holdout Clancy juror. Um, the holdout Clancy juror is now fighting back because Kevin. Reddington, the lawyer for Lindsay Clancy has, as I've been saying on the show this week, tried to give this guy a legal colonoscopy. He wants the holdout jurors cell phone, the actual physical cell phone. He wants all of his cell phone records to see exactly who he was texting and when and calling and when in the course of deliberations, he wants surveillance tape from the courthouse hallways around the deliberation room. So he can see whether this guy was on his phone, etc. and he's accusing him of lying under oath to the judge when he said that he could be fair and follow the law because he didn't vote not guilty by reason of mental insanity. I mean, this is like the craziest harassment of a juror I've ever seen. And now the attorney for the Clancy holdout juror, Michael, has come out and spoken to this. He spoke with our pal over at Fugitive TV, who came on this program to update us. He's been in touch with the holdout juror, Michael. So now this Michael's attorney goes on with Fugitive TV and says the following in SOT 12. Very disturbed by what I've seen from Kevin Reddington this week. Obviously, he filed a motion to investigate Michael. This is setting a horrible precedent. It's an attack on the Sixth Amendment. It's attack on the right to trial by jury. And if we follow. Kevin Reddington's proposal to its logical conclusion, pretty soon we're not going to have a justice system anymore because our right to trial by jury is the foundation of our criminal justice system. I mean, where is he wrong? That's attorney Andrew Polsik. He's the attorney for Michael Desronville, the holdout juror, again, on Fugitive TV's podcast. Fugitive TV is hosted by Ray Marcel, who was on the program, this program, not just a few days ago. So just one follow up for you, Glenn, because I'm sure you agree with what he's saying, just how dangerous this is. But now there is a new twist because Ray Marcel, Fugitive TV, who's again in touch with Michael, had a little update on what the other jurors were doing when he spoke with Brian Enten, SOT 15. He thinks that it's in his favor because once again, Kevin is singling out Michael. As in his filing, he's only asking for Michael's cell phone records. But what about that? I mean, what do you think will end up happening? Do you think they'll end up asking for all of them? Well, that's probably going to be the fight is either ask for all of them. If you want to ask for one, then ask for all of them, because my impression or what Michael told me is almost I think he said everybody had their phone on them. It wasn't like they took their phones away and locked them away. I mean, there were juror members, which I'm not going to say names, that were posting on social media, allegedly, you know, wild deliberations, going on. So either take everybody's phone or no phones at all. Right on. So where is this going? I'm actually I'm actually shocked and horrified that this is being done. I mean, there is no requirement when you're a juror other than just to do what you think is the best. There's no proving that somebody refused to follow the judge's instructions. And like from the beginning of the republic, the idea of a jury trial. The idea of a jury trial is we used to have jury nullification all the time and it was considered to be a good thing. But here it's just like just two quick things. I have a lot to say on this, but just two quick things that are about what you just showed me. One is like before the identity of this holdout juror was known, I found it so interesting because they were interviewing mostly the women on the on the on the on the jury who were demanding an acquittal or not guilty by reason of insanity verdict. And I did notice that they were speaking about the holdout, juror in a very peculiar way, like they were describing him as like arrogant and aggressive and threatening, almost like uppity. And then suddenly, like the identity of this holdout juror is known and he's this black man. And it was like so obvious in retrospect that the adjectives they were using and the way they were speaking about him. But then also, I. This is what I'm perplexed by. Like, I'm a believer in the insanity defense. It's been, you know, foundational, to our to Western justice and the Enlightenment and Anglo-Saxon law. So I understand. I really do believe in that. But what I don't get is that if there were one holdout juror who refused to find her guilty, I could understand the public hating this holdout juror because the insanity defense is not is kind of counterintuitive. And if you see a crime as primarily horrific as suffocating three young children, most of society is going to be like, we demand the person's head on a pike here. It's reversed. Like, people were craving that she get acquitted, or that she get found non guilty. And somehow the villain is the one who wanted to hold responsible a woman who suffocated her kids. That's the thing that's most mystifying to me, like, where did this inversion of value usually, you have to fight against society saying no, the the insanity defense actually matters. Having a criminal intent is crucial. But here it's like you don't have to do that people are angry that he he wanted to convict a woman who strangled her three young children. How did that become aberrational or worthy of abuse, let alone investigation of a juror, which is something that is so taboo. It's so wrong. Exactly right. If this is like, deeply, deeply wrong what they're doing to this man. And it's very obvious. I mean, even Joy Reid, and Sonny Hostin are defending this man. You can guess why I don't think they would be if this were all a white conservative woman. But whatever, they see it, they see what we see, which is this is abuse and harassment. Yes, of a of a man who happens to be black, and was the holdout juror. And then there's the famous, infamous Gayle King, like, I've just got to sit with that, that the holdout juror is a black man, I've got to sit with that. Here's what he said, Michael does Ronville, the holdout juror, in a written statement. I didn't have any doubts. I didn't have any, he's saying, as I tried to explain different possible theories during deliberation, I kept getting cut off, as if I had doubts, based on the evidence evidence present, based on all the physical evidence, key witnesses, and what the prosecution presents. I thought it was enough proof that she, Clancy, knew exactly what she was doing, and planned. Okay, that's his take. How, we're both lawyers, how on earth does Kevin Reddington prove otherwise to a judge? And, and then, let's say he does. Somehow, you know, Michael takes the stand and says, "Judge, I had no doubts." But other jurors say, "He had doubts. He said them. Here's what he said." And then the judge says, "He had doubts." And somehow gets to the, "And didn't apply the reasonable doubt stand." Because you're allowed to have doubts. The question is, is it a reasonable doubt? You know, beyond, whatever. And so, in this hypothetical, the judge says, "He had doubts. I disagree with what he's saying now. I disavow it. I don't, I reject it. And also, I, I am finding that the doubts were great enough to rise to reasonable. And then I'm finding that he perjured himself to me under oath when I asked him if he could follow the law and be fair. And as a result, I'm finding her not guilty by reason." No, the jury never got there. There was never a verdict. They never actually voted, Glenn. And, and as you know, when a jury is still compiled, it's still deliberating. They're having troubles, but they have not yet been dismissed. If a juror gets bounced, the remedy is you get a new juror. One of the alternates gets called up, placed as the 12th man or woman, and they start all over again. So what is this even about? Yeah, honestly, I'm, I'm a little bit mystified. And because also, you know, you saw the public reaction was incredibly paralyzed, you know, polarized. I mean, there were sectors of society that were like, this is not even a question. She needs to be found guilty and go to jail for the rest of her life. If not executed, the crime she committed was the worst and most horrible thing you can do. And then you had a huge sector of society that was like, no, we need to understand that people have mental health problems and they lack requisite criminal guilt. So that is a debate that is like a real debate that has polarized people a long time. Why wouldn't you expect that same polarization and, and different way of looking at things to be present in a jury of 12 people reflective of the community? And yet they're treating him like he's some kind of criminal because he didn't see it the way the other 11 have seen it. This is not unusual in a, in a justice system where you have one or two holdouts who speak things differently from the majority, but that's why you need unanimity in most jurisdictions to convict somebody of a, of a, of a very, uh, serious crime. And yet this, that's what I'm saying. I could understand it. If the holdout was the person who, uh, didn't want to convict and, and a lot of people like you prevented this woman, this murderer of her own babies from going to prison and this anger toward him, he was the one who was saying, no, I think this person actually deserves to be in prison. I'm not buying the, the, the, the, the mental illness. This happens all the time. There's just a trial. This guy walked up to three, uh, young Palestinian students of Vermont and he shot all three of them, you know, 21, 21 year old kids who went to college. And one of them is paralyzed in the, the, the chest down. And he tried the, the, the, the incentive defense and the jury. After two hours rejected it and said, we don't believe he's insane. We believe the actor with criminal intent. It's not like what he did is so aberrational. There's something about her and the story that has resonated so deeply in almost a disturbing way with a large part of the population, like an identification with her, that anybody who questions her or your Jack's her defense is seen as like an evil villain. And I'm finding this extremely disturbing. Me too. Same. And it's, it's going to go on and on. We're not, we're nowhere near done with this. Listen to this. So The women of The View took a shot at this case. And, you know, this guy, Patrick Clancy, who was married to Lindsay Clancy, who is her victim as well. I mean, he's the father of the three children who were murdered. And he goes on 60 Minutes with his new wife on Sunday. I found the whole thing bizarre. I mean, I've said to the audience, like, I don't, Patrick Clancy didn't kill these children, but I just, I don't understand a father who is told by the spouse, I'm thinking about hurting our children. Who then leaves that spouse alone with the children. I just, she was having a good day. Well, that's terrific. But that's not reason to risk your children's lives. It's a very strange decision, I think, on his part. Again, it's not his fault, but I also just, I'm kind of done hearing from him. I'm like, whatever. I don't want to be thinking about the Clancy's much anymore. So that's, that wasn't the take of Sarah Haynes. Again, this is supposed to be the resident conservative over there. Listen. Listen to what she had to say. And in response to the 60 interview, Saddle Evan. What bothers me is he talks about forgiving her, which I love, but he focuses on that and never jumps to what so many people struggle with. How did the marital love end so quickly? When you admit openly your, your wife got sick, she got sick. It doesn't mean you can be with him and it doesn't mean it doesn't remind you of the worst day of your life. But I would hope and like in sickness and in healthy, I would hope that my husband wouldn't sit there and just move on. Move right along. Oh my God. After you murdered your three children, what, what kind of a person would stay with the spouse after that? I, I mean, there aren't many things that shocked me, but I actually saw that yesterday. I think I, I'm a big believer in like loyalty to your spouse, to like marital vows, you know, to like death do us part in sickness and health. But like, you have to put that into a human context. And if anybody, including your spouse murders, your three young children, it was like eight months, three years old and five years old. Imagine if he had stayed with her and been like, yeah, I forgive her. I understand she was sick. I would think he would be looked at as some kind of like freak. He would be like vilified. Like who would stay with the woman who just murdered your three young children? And that's her take. Like he has a. Responsibility to, to stay with her. And she's disappointed because he like the love broke. And probably the love didn't even break, you know, but like who could wake up every day and look at somebody who murdered your three children. That is monstrous to judge him that way. Even if you want to judge him in other ways, like what you said, like not that. What like, it's so weird. It's, it's, it's from the same field of thought is like, well, he's, he's beating the shit out of me every night. But I said in sickness and in health and good times and in bad. So I've got to stay. This is not, this is not the covenant at all. You are allowed to leave your spouse. If your spouse murders anyone, nevermind your three children. This is an absurd. That seems fair. That seems fair. We, we, we've been talking about this case of this woman in Maine years ago, back in the 1950s or sixties, who she murdered her three kill her through kids. She killed her three kids. She drowned them. She was sent away. She was found not guilty by. Reason of mental defect. And she went back to the same husband. That husband did take her back. They had another three children and she drowned them too. Like note to Sarah Haynes. That's why he has no desire to be with this woman again. He realizes she is a danger to yes. Anybody around her and why, and he probably wants to have children. His new wife is pregnant and he certainly doesn't want to. Endanger his future children to this woman. Also, you know, I, I just have a strong objection to like judging people who you don't know, who have gone through something you can't possibly understand. You know, like, again, we've all gone through things that are very difficult. We lose people. That's part of life, but something like this, where your own wife and the mother of your three young babies suffocates them. I don't think you can even remotely understand what that must be like to go through. You're probably different people. Like the fact that he got away from her remarried, wanted to start a new family. Like, I don't judge, begrudge him any of that. You know, like who would, who would sit in judgment of him and how he moves on from this incomprehensibly horrific experience? Like where I make it, where do you, I don't even know where that comes from in a person's brain. Like he had the responsibility to forgive her and stay with her. Well, what that's like, that's, that is, I don't, I don't even, I don't. I can't begin to comprehend that. This is the wisdom that the viewers of ABC are getting in the mornings. You go on The View and your IQ shrinks to like seven. I'm telling you, I have more in common with that fuck Planned Parenthood lady than I do with this so-called conservative sitting on The View wondering why Patrick Clancy did not stay with Lindsay. Okay. Elizabeth Holmes. I'm so into this. There's going to be this amazing documentary. It's coming out, I think, October 15th, only in theaters. Now they've released the, everybody's talking about this movie and no one's seen it except for at its premiere at like whatever, some festival. Here's the full trailer. Watch. You really feel you did nothing wrong. I did not. So where did things get lost? Like, how are you where you are right now? I, I wish I knew. I don't know. I don't. I don't. I don't feel like I understand that. So I know you guys invited me to, to stay here. Does any part of you worry about me being here 24-7? I don't think so. I fell in love in that first conversation. Before or after that she revealed she was the founder of Theranos? Probably before. I mean, weren't you worried she was sort of scamming you? Yeah. Yeah. 100%. But what did she have to gain for me? Well, isn't your family rich? Yeah. I think that there's like a lot of different levels of wealth. You've never been suspicious that she's ever lied to you? No. Ever. I still have this weird feeling that there's some things that I'm not seeing. It's because I don't have anything to hide. Okay. It was not the full trailer. It was most of the full trailer. They have little captions on the screen. Like, If you think you know everything, think again. And quotes from people who have seen it, like, My mind is blown. I've never seen anything like this. There's supposedly some massive twist that comes in the middle of this film involving some celebrity, some female celebrity not named Elizabeth Holmes. And nobody has revealed the secret, which is good. It's hard to keep things a secret. I want it revealed to me in the course of watching the movie. But we get this news about, you know, her, some shocking documentary about her before she went. Just as we get the news, she's being moved out of prison. She was sentenced to 11 years. Well, before the 11 years are up, they're now moving her to a halfway house, which is, it's not really jail. It's like, I don't know, like a camp that you're not allowed to leave. And, you know, she's a nonviolent offender, Glenn. But, like, that's a pretty sweet move for somebody who, by my count, is, I think, five years into her sentence, if that. Yeah, I mean, it's nonviolent, but it's not victimless. Like, you do a massive fraud like this, and you ruin people's lives. You destroy their financial security for themselves and their family. It's, like, not a joke to perpetrate a fraud on this kind of a level. You know, I do, I do think, but, like, in general, I think our system of justice doesn't treat what we call white-collar crimes with the gravity that they deserve for a lot of different reasons. But, you know, I don't think it's a joke. You know, I think Elizabeth Holmes is, like, an interesting person only because of what it reveals about the people who she actually deceived. I mean, she deceived not just, like, the market at large, but, like, George Shultz and, like, huge numbers of, like, very respected names, supposedly, like, the wisest people. Henry Kissinger. Yeah, Henry Kissinger. They were all on the board. They were all big boosters of her. Mattis. General Mattis. Exactly. Former defense secretary under Trump I. Right. I think it is interesting. I think it is interesting about how con men or con women, like, what they tap into and what people respond to, how Silicon Valley, just, like, the things they think are interesting. But I do think, at least speaking for myself, and I think speaking for a lot of people, the reason there's so much interest in this film is because the director and the person who's in the film, Nathan Fielder, is an absolute, like, I don't use this word lightly, genius. Like, the stuff he's done. Yeah, he seems it. Yeah, I mean, the rehearsal, which is on HBO and HBO Max, is one of the most complex. I've ever seen one of the most genius works of art. He did a thing with Emma Stone called The Curse, which, like, really viciously satirized, like, woke, kind of white, upper-middle-class suburban couples. So he, and he just, like, he just mind-ups you. And I think that's why this is not going to be just an ordinary documentary about somebody we already know a lot about. I'm sure it's going to be something that is genuinely mind-blowing and a documentary unlike what you've seen. I can't, I really can't wait to see it. - I can't wait to see it. correct myself, she's been in prison for three years. She was sentenced to 11, not five. So after three, she's getting moved to the camp, the prison camp, the halfway house situation. No, he looks like a genius. And I await one word of negativity from people who have seen it. Everybody seems floored. So I'm dying to watch this because I did cover this case very carefully. I know a fair amount about Elizabeth Holmes. I've met Elizabeth Holmes. I actually really liked her and found her kind of charming. I guess I'm just like George Shultz. I didn't give her any money. And I certainly didn't vouch for her with other people. But by the way, that guy who she married is worth hundreds of millions. So it wasn't a small amount. Okay. Well, there's much more to discuss. We'll do it on the back end of this break. Glenn Greenwald is my guest for the full program today. Don't go away. We'll be right back. You might already own a firearm, but what if you could start with less lethal methods or just have them as part of your arsenal to avoid the financial and mental repercussions of actually pulling the trigger of a gun? This is where Berna comes in. I love Berna. It's B-Y-R-N-A, FYI. Berna's less lethal launchers are equipped with tear gas and kinetic ammunition and designed to incapacitate an attacker for up to 40 minutes. And with Berna, you don't actually have to hit the perpetrator. If you get like the wall right next to him or the door behind him, it still works. And they are very excited at Berna to be introducing the new compact launcher, sleek, slim, and hits like a sledgehammer. The same size as a smartphone, which allows women in particular to conceal carry everywhere comfortably and with confidence. This thing fires at 400 feet per second. That's a lot of power to stop aggressors in their tracks. Their pistols are American-made and hand-assembled in Fort Wayne, Indiana, with over 80% of the components in the compact launcher being sourced in the USA. Berna's legal in all 50 states, no background checks required, and it can be shipped directly to your door. Berna is also trusted by hundreds of police departments, too. It's part of your self-defense plan. Try before you buy by visiting Berna.com to find a Berna dealer partner near you. That's B-Y-R-N-A dot com. Back with our pal Glenn Greenwald. He is the host of System Update on Substack. We've been doing a lot of work during the break, Glenn. We have found out that it goes idiot, imbecile, moron. Moron's the worst thing you could be. But then, according to the New York Times, was it the New York Times, Steve? A psychology website. According to a psychology website, eventually the psychiatric world exchanged all of those for the nicer term, retard. Like they decided retarded would include all those terms. But why is it absolutely fine to say he's an idiot? He's an imbecile. He's a moron. But she can't say the allegedly nicer retard. Then the New York Times in 2016 had a whole article on how the scale is idiot, imbecile, cretin, feeble-minded, moron. And I guess retard was at the top of that scale. The point is, there's a double standard going on here. Yeah, I personally, in case anyone's listening and cares about my preferences, would prefer to be called retard than idiot, moron, or imbecile. I just think it's like a little less harsh. You know, by the way, it just means a little slow. Sometimes you wake up and you are a little slow. But you know, actually, we're seeing this now with the word autism, too. Like very shortly, that word is going to be prohibited as being too derogatory somehow, even though it's always been very descriptive and objective and neutral. Because now, you know, the left has created this nicer term. And I think it's going to be a little slower. I think it's going to be a little slower. She's telling me an update on something she was getting from me. And then I said, great. I said, now go buy me a chameleon named Meatball and please feed it live crickets. And she writes back, the closest I've gotten is maybe my role as animal control when the studio was in the other house and we had a crow in the studio. Still makes me LOL. And she writes, I'm not even impressed by feeding crickets to a chameleon. That takes just two seconds. Just simply do it. That's why you can tell she's a valuable person to your team. So yeah, I'm sorry that she's going. That's what you need. I'm freaked out. Watch this. And we heard something. And we're like, she's making the big eyes at me and I'm making the big eyes at her. And she went down to investigate and there's a bird. It's in this situation. A crow? I believe that's usually a crow. Holy. As long as it's not like a raven. I mean, bring her death. Go get Doug. This is his job. But we've had situations like that. Oh my God, Jason, what should we do? Well, hopefully catch it. But I mean, we've had. We've had situations where owls have been in buildings with us and bats landed on our hats. I mean, yeah, right now I just say duck. He's going, what do I do? What do I do? I don't know. Oh, God. No, you can't close the door. What? It's caught in what thing? Wait, wait, wait, wait. Let me take a picture of you. Hold on. I want the audience to be able to see. It's like in that white panel thing. What panel thing? The door? It wants to come into that window. It's in the side. You know how you can sit over there? Oh my God. Oh my God. I'm so positive. Here it comes. It's coming. It's coming. What do you mean? It's coming. I love how Jason kept trying to do the interview. We were like, wait a minute. No. And it was, it was an actual crow. It was a, right? Wasn't it a crow? It was a, it was a crow. It was a large, large bird. We did catch it and it lived. It was set free, but it was in the studio. Was that a, like a hamper cover that she had picked up? No, it was like a, one of those trays you put on a coffee table, you know, to like. But she was using it as like a shield just in case the crow attacked her. She had like a shield. I think it was her weapon. I don't know if it was a sword or a shield in her mind, but she got it done, Glenn, as she always does. That's the kind of gal she is. Okay. So anyway, back to the news. We've got to talk about the lesbian bar. Do we not? I would be super angry if we left without that. Yeah, we got, I mean, there's left. I'm putting the actually hard. News behind the lesbian bar. We actually do have some politics to get to, but it can wait. The lesbian bar is the best story of the week, bar none. It's very clear. And here's the story. So our friends over at the Blocked and Reported podcast are the ones who broke this story. Then the Boston Globe caught onto it and wrote it up. And everybody's giving the Boston Globe credit, but that's bullshit because they are not actually the ones who broke the story. It's Jesse Signal and Katie Herzog over at Blocked and Reported who broke it. And here is the story. A small lesbian bar, this is from the Boston Globe I'm reading, a lesbian bar in Greenfield, Massachusetts called Last Ditch sparked intense controversy within parts of the local queer community after announcing it would make Saturday nights mask optional. This is current. This is not from 2020. This is current, almost 2027 America. Opened last year as a bar for quote dykes, transsexuals, gender freaks, workers, and their friends is you'll be shocked to hear struggling and was hoping a policy change might help revive foot traffic. The three housemates in their mid twenties opened it together, hoping to fill the void left by two similar bars that had shuttered. One of the founders, Asa Rosario, a drag performer who uses it. It's pronouns envisioned a venue where it and its friends could perform. No one would be turned away from the space for lack of funds. Poor and unhoused people are welcome in the space. The police were not shocked. This didn't do well. Our mission is to create systems of care and action and aid, says Jackie Mattelian, one of the founders. Last Ditch, which had required well fitted KN95 masks or better. I don't know. don't even know what that means, like a full hazmat suit, at all times announced the change to their mask policy on Instagram. It is with love that we inform our immunocompromised disabled divas that we will be opening Saturday nights as mask optional, wrote Last Ditch. The post was definitely not received with love, writes the Boston Globe. The post triggered hundreds of angry comments accusing the bar of being ableist, eugenicist, and endangering immunocompromised people. Quote, just say you're being complicit in a mass disabling event and get it over with, wrote one. Quote, people like you kill disabled people in the name of your own leisure and convenience, posted another. Here was the third. I hope your venue gets firebombed for robbing my fellow immunocompromised people of their Saturday plans just to escape, just to scrape extra revenue from ableists. The thread grew to 442 comments, some supportive, but many furious. Then the comments were turned off. The people running the bar were accused of being ableist, as you heard, eugenicist, et cetera. Commenters consider, oh, in the face of what commentators consider an ongoing pandemic. Then came the apology. Posted by the bar on Instagram, it seemed to just add fuel to the fire, to no one's surprise. They write, accessibility update. We are sorry to disappoint valued community members with access, changes by casual announcement. Our diverse, disabled, immunocompromised team make decisions by multiple open community meetings, feedback, forum review, et cetera. Vast feedback over almost two years pushed for varied accessibility, not one size fits all. People consent to varying risks every day to be in community, though we generally try to follow universal design. All 99% of us marginalized deserve to be welcome. Accessibility is a pillar of our mission. We prioritize solidarity amongst groups with different needs, connecting us all in this revolution. The rainbow behind it. I don't even know what that means. I don't know what any word of that means other than they're sorry, but it doesn't seem like anything is changing. We are passive, they write in an accompanying post. We are sorry for our passive and dismissive tone of our change to the norms and schedule impacting the most intersectional of us. Keep an eye on this Instagram for an update. The apology set off a fresh round of accusations of ableism. This is not an accessible post, wrote one user. Indicates the lack of care or interest in disability intersectionality. That's a thing. In the same post, the bar announced a community feedback and volunteer meetup. That's not a good idea. By the time of last ditch monthly community meeting on September 11th of this month, only one of the original founders, Matillion, is still involved. The two others stepped back from the daily operations months beforehand, one citing pressures and health issues. The other had enrolled in clown school. The meeting was something. It began with a calming breathing exercise before devolving into chaos. There are some 10 people seated in a circle on the dance floor, all wearing masks. Another 10 to 15 people joined via Zoom. Matillion, a handful of volunteers, some bar regulars and two designated mediators are there to facilitate conversations between parties who disagree. One of last ditch's most vocal critics, the head of another queer COVID conscious collective in Western Mass, a performer and artist who goes by Zoe Noir, joins via Zoom. He and other critics begin to flood the Zoom chat with irate messages, which are dutifully read aloud to the group. When it is Matillion's turn, she says she had never envisioned running last ditch alone. It was not my passion project, she says. Matillion tells the group her credit score is trashed. For six months, she lived in her truck because she was pouring money into the bar, which of course nobody wanted to go to for all the obvious reasons. She is working four different jobs. She is responsible for paying off the $50,000 loan the three took out to launch the business. The online critics, unmoved, you chose to use your time to spill tears and center your feelings. Noir posts in the chat, this is incredibly racist and deflecting behavior. Of course we had to get to the racist accusation. After the meeting, Noir spends the hours posting furious Instagram stories about Matillion and last ditch. According to Noir, Matillion, who uses she, they pronouns, had been shedding white, they, them tears. He writes, the bar was not a safe environment, nor interested in revolutionary praxis, P-R-A-X-S-X-I-S. When asked if he had any sympathy for the bar, given the financial strain, he said, I'm not going to give grace when someone is quote, spreading rhetoric that can and will get people hurt in reference to the mask optional policy on Saturdays only. Noir went on, these ableist ideas that disabled people, immunocompromised people should either risk their health, or just be pushed out of spaces. The Globe recalls a comment on last ditch's original announcement after the pylon had begun at scream guy was up asked, I'm sorry, all 400 of these crazy people live in Greenfield, Massachusetts. I ask whether the people behind the angriest posts have genuine connections to the bar. Are they real customers? Volunteer, Melody Young and owner Jackie Matillion say, yes, they know many of the detractors. Connecticut representative Rosa DeLarge, on X posted Wednesday, getting a group together to visit the weird lesbian bar in Western Mass. DM, if interested, can't talk here. About three hours later, she followed up, trip canceled. No one wanted to mask. That's even with a rainbow Democrat from Connecticut. So that's where things stand, Glenn. They are the most vicious against their own, the super woke, immunocompromised, intersectional, non ableist, whatever that you one toe out of line and they will crucify you. Yeah, I mean, I have so many reactions to this. Like, of course, it's super fun and easy to just mock this in the funniest way for all of eternity. And I'm sure I'll do that at some point. But honestly, like my overriding reaction, the more I listen, of course, I've read this before. It's like, anger and sadness. It's funny, every time I've ever talked about trans issues and the whole trans movement and gotten in trouble for it, it's almost always because of the corrupting influence of Katie Herzog, who's a lesbian. She's a friend of mine. She's a little younger than me, but she grew up in the kind of generation where lesbian culture was very important to her. And she's written before about, starting years ago and before she had this podcast when she was just at an independent left wing newspaper in Seattle. Called The Stranger. She was starting to write about how trans issues were starting to kind of change and even degrade like what had been gay and lesbian culture. And she got viciously ostracized. I mean, all over Seattle, you would see stickers saying Katie Herzog is a Nazi. She was physically threatened all the time. This is like a very left wing lesbian who became like this symbol of Nazism and fascism because it was just the slightest like analytical curiosity about how these cultures were mixing. And so the fact that she broke the story is no surprise, because I'm probably going to get in trouble again for what I'm about to say. But like, first of all, it's what you said, like, just take out the lesbian part of it for a second. Everybody knows that the hardest thing that you can do in the American economy is be a small business owner. And being a bar owner is like even harder. The chances that you're going to succeed is quite small. You work day and night. You're constantly struggling over profit margins and how to keep the bar. Right. open and running every bar owner you've ever known will tell you this. And here's a woman whose bar is failing. Who knows why? I'm sure it does have to do with the fact that in 2026, you can't go in without a mask, just like for that reason alone. So they're like, this woman is in debt. She's in debt. The other owners have left. One decided, you know what? I think it's better to go to clown school and become a clown and continue with this. She lived in her car for six months. She can't pay her employees. And so she just tried. She's like, I just need one night to try and get people who will only come if they don't have one mask, which is like the vast majority of people in 2026. And that's what led to this vicious attempt to destroy her. And they and these supposed to be people on the left who like identify with working people who identify with people being crushed by capitalism. And they're like, we don't give the site. Also, we we believe in love and tolerance, right? That with the lawn sign. Yeah. And like, here's the thing, like, when I went to college, actually, when I went to law school, it was like the early 90s. I went to NYU. And this was at a time when like that group act up the activist group act up was was really starting to become powerful. And these are like very serious activists, you know, like gay and lesbian activism was very serious. They weren't just screaming and yelling. They had like learned the science. A lot of the lesbians who led it were like nurses and scientists. And they developed this expertise. And at the time, the villain was Anthony Fauci. He was the head of infectious diseases. And they felt like they weren't doing enough to push big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big pharma to get, you know, so I was so impressed with like, like gay and lesbian politics. It was serious. It was confronting power centers for like noble causes. They played a big role in getting experimental. This is like good politics. Now, like, LGBT politics is about attacking, like the most marginalized powerless people like impoverished bar owners over this and like calling them right, Janice and this relates to the story we're talking about with those Democratic women who end up getting like, you know, attack for using retard or faggot or whatever. This bar, you could tell, like, in fact, the owner is like a day that that's why that guy was like, she's crying white, they them and the other one's an it yeah exactly these are not like you know this is not like the wall street barons or like silicon valley oh like the tucker carlson saloon no exactly these are like as woke and left-wing as it gets which is why they had the mass mandate into 2026 why it's like gender queer and all those other things that don't even make sense but eventually that's what i hate most about left-wing politics is they never direct themselves or really direct themselves to anything that actually matters to anything powerful they'll always pick the person right next to them and you i can list almost every left-wing organization that over the past 10 years has basically imploded starting from like me too and woke and george floyd and black lives matter and all the new jargon they only just like wage war on themselves it's the most miserable place to be even if you have like ideological alignment with them on certain issues all you want to do is run in the opposite direction because they're the most miserable sadistic people imagine saying i don't have any concern it's sick it's like sadism is where they get the word from you nailed it this is reminding me of noah rothman's great book new puritans which is so excellent i urge everybody to read it it's just he's very smart and he turned his powers on the woke who he called new puritans and that's that's exactly the right term for them like the puritans who are so scolding and unforgiving and hated joy of any kind or laughter or dancing or god forbid a drink everything was absolutely not and one step out of line and you would be made an example of and that's how the woke are in his book had all these examples of left-on-left violence you know like the two ladies who tried to do like a taco truck to bring other cultures to a neighborhood so they could experience something beyond meatloaf and were killed for it because they weren't actually mexican and they were you know culturally appropriating and then ruined them example after example of how the left ruined a fellow leftist for not being appropriately intersectional or self-flagellating over the fact that they were white you name it like there's a long list um there is we have a little sound here which we should play here is from blocked and reported um mediators attempting attempting to end the meeting and we get a look at this person noir the one who is calling everybody racist now and who would not give forgiveness let's watch some of this top three as a trans person i'm not i'm there's a lot of emotion there's a lot of emotional and physical labor that goes into this so for you as a white person that asked me to stay another meeting for free to to vomit the same harm that jackie that jackie has asked everyone has access to see is incredibly disingenuous and racist i'm not doing that okay so yeah he's got to play the the race card i guess that's why he goes by noir i don't know what that's about here's thought for another another sneak peek via blocked and reported of what happened at the meeting this is community talking to community that's number one it's going to be uncomfortable that's number two nobody is old and they're not going to be comfortable with comfort on land in which rape and pillage has happened we all know what's happening on a societal level we all have shit that is happening on a personal level nobody is owed and prioritized people are prioritized comfort we walk that back it's people who are prioritized comfort but nobody is above discomfort okay so we're on indigenous land and therefore nobody has the right to object to anything there'll be no sympathy extended to any you can never be comfortable because right 400 years ago this land had rape and pillage so who are you to comply also it's a very white group by the way which is just ironic because they found a way to squeeze in the racism thing and by the way the the racism claim was like you may come to a meeting for free and now want me to come to another one i don't do unpaid labor and as a white person it's race okay but let me just say too can we just stop and pause for one second megan please like having heard that let's remind ourselves that all of this happened because this bar in 2026 which has a mask requirement to enter said we're just gonna have one night just to try and save ourselves economically we're just one night out of the seven we're gonna let people in and it's mask optional you can still wear a mask you're totally free we just we it's one night when we don't have a mask to see if we can attract other people and save ourselves look at all that it led to like the grimness the dreariness the anger the like and and the other thing that i hate and i'm sure noah rothman wrote about this in his book i remember that book that the other big part of it that's so repellent is that there's no redemption possible there's no like christianity all forms of christianity like judaism islam like repentance is critical like that's the human redemption possible and without that there's nothing to the human condition you err once and you're forever destroyed the bar owner went and profusely apologized for nothing and that just made them angrier because there is no such thing as apology once you've committed some kind of crime that you're done for white yeah yeah or especially if you're white right or if she were like only a lesbian but like latina she would still be lower on the oppression level than like the the trans people who were like white or whatever so you're you're a lesbian you have lesbian privilege you don't know what it's like to be non-binary trans like everything is just like a prussian ladder that determines everything i unfortunately know this world too well here's this noah who is coming after this jackie the owner the last woman standing um and listen to your point what noah is mad about in this particular exchange sought to via blocked and reported you want to name that um since that we are now apparently only doing one round um that the one round that i do think it's interesting that now that there's only one round i publicly asked jackie to respond to what i said and the harm that they did and they chose to use their time to not acknowledge what i said and instead go over time and cry for three minutes jackie went over jackie's time and cried for three minutes it's a no i will be acknowledged or you're a racist ableist whore that's really where it ended but it it does remind me like just whenever anybody would whenever anybody attempts to give these people one inch the flagellation like they smell blood in the water it will only increase it never decreases they they you know you show them your belly they will cut it open or rip your intestines out and enjoy dancing on them publicly yeah you know i i do blame these people more than anybody for the like backlash and the backsliding on these issues that has happened we were talking before about like people using the word faggot just because they can't because it's a taboo term they use it for all kinds of things they just use it to use it like not because they're told that you can't this is very human like someone tells you that you can't do something you're gonna be like i'm gonna do it and the and what happened was these are the people who taught everybody that if you feel like okay you did something that you can't do you can't do something you're gonna be like i'm gonna do it even though you don't think it's wrong you can understand how other people might be offended just trying to be like typically considerate to other people it doesn't do you any good because if you ever apologize if you ever like take one step back just out of like kind of deference to other people's sensibilities that's when they will destroy you even further because they take that not as an attempt to like diffuse the situation but as an attempt to it basically as an admission of wrongdoing and then they'll condemn you even further and so they have trained people never back down never do anything out of consideration or out of thought for other people because it doesn't work with these people they get more vicious and they train people almost they enjoy it yeah they they're the ones who have like degraded and made much more crude our public discourse through this like constant attack and constant effort to shame and destroy people simply so that they can get some sort of like satisfaction in their miserable lives that's really what it's about it's just like they want power and this is how they exert power it's it makes me sick to my core you could be on the floor writhing in pain and they would take off their fake stiletto and shove it into your eye that's who we're dealing with here here is an example from noah's book new puritans it's about uh some restaurant called fat rice the controversy happened in 2018 in chicago the chef and owner was abe conyon the restaurant had been a local favorite since it opened its doors in 2012 in the summer of 2020 which was a tumultuous time the restaurant's proprietors sought to convey their support for the anti-police protests that had erupted across the country with some instagram activism what could possibly go wrong the restaurant posted a few anodyne images of protests and a message quote we remain dedicated to our values we oppose all forms of racism and we stand with those fighting for justice and equality in our communities in chicago and across the world it's a no a former employee savaged the restaurant for what he deemed its insufficient gesture of support for racial justice you're not gonna say hashtag black lives matter even though you take from black culture all the time, he wrote. With that, the dam burst. A handful of former restaurant employees took to social media to allege that Conlon was abusive and his business practice were racist. What did he do? Quote, they don't give any cultural context to the origins of their ingredients, wrote the former employee. That's the level of absurdity. Like it's back to the war games. The only winning move is not to play. No, exactly. And that's the problem. It's like, you know, if you want to say, hey, like there are cultural origins to different foods and it's good to like, I don't know, for whatever reason, like you can just acknowledge it to show like the diversity of food, like your restaurant owner. Yeah, that's kind of interesting. Maybe get more information. OK, so like that's a reasonable conversation, but they don't do that. They instantly turn it into like a moral crime if not even if you are asked to do it and don't. But like if you've never done it before, suddenly you're like the KKK lynching black people because you didn't point out like the specific region of Mexico from which you're like sauce comes from. And again, this is the menu is going to be 200 pages. Yeah. But like think of how many things in the world there are to focus on. And this is the thing that they think needs to be attacked. It's like popular lefty restaurant. And that is what 2020. And like I said, I think most people are decent people. Most people don't like to offend others. They don't like to gratuitously anger others. So it's like someone comes to you and says, hey, like this word, this practice kind of offends me. You're like open to like saying, oh, well, I don't want to offend anybody. I'm not here like make anybody angry. But they don't do that to be. Yeah. But I but that's what I'm saying. They have taught people don't do that because there's no benefit. These people don't deserve that kind of consideration because they're not actually trying to find common ground. They're just not going to do that. They're just not going to trying to to prosecute you and condemn you and destroy you for their own cheap and trivial enjoyment. And once you understand that, why would you ever think twice about how these people react? Who cares? In fact, you'd go out of your way to do the things they don't want you to do. And I think that's what they've trained people to do. That's the only proper response. I mean, it was like it reminds me of the time Bernie Goldberg was on my show at Fox News and he he used the word midget. And I said, oh, I don't think you're allowed to say that anymore. It's now little people. And he goes, what? I'm like, you're not allowed to say midget anymore. And he goes, midget, midget, midget, midget. That's it. Like every time you tell me I can't, I'm going to double, triple, quadruple down on saying and I'm going to make it my mission to say it as much as possible just to send you a message that you don't control me or my speech. And I'm not playing your very twisted games. Maybe now they them and it it's which, by the way, in in the post, I saw online two of the original owners, the two who fled the coup have facial hair now have full male facial hair. They're women, I think, who now have full male facial. OK, good luck with that in clown school that after that, maybe they will have. I think it's a benefit in clown school. Isn't it? Like, don't you have to wear? I can take a red McDonald beer or something. What do you mean? In clown school, you should be clean shaven so that you can put, you know, all the makeup on your face. That's true. Yeah, it's weird to have a beard mustache. We we have other stories we're going to get to. First, we're going to take a break and we will be back with the podfather of the MK show, Glenn Greenwald. Right after this, we need to talk about cozy Earth's bamboo stretch knit pajamas. These things are silky, smooth and buttery soft at the same time. You can feel it the second you put them on. They are naturally temperature regulating and breathable, too. So they keep you completely cool without ever waking up hot or clammy. But this goes from bamboo with just the right amount of easy stretch. The fit is relaxed, so you look completely put together even while sipping morning coffee or answering the front door. Plus, there is no real risk in trying them out at all. They offer an easy return and exchange window if the fit is not right. And everything is backed by a warranty to head to cozy Earth dot com. Use my promo code Megan for up to 20 percent off home and sleepwear. That's code Megan for up to 20 percent off home and sleepwear. 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And they've got a special deal going for you right now. Just go to Armra dot com slash Megan or enter Megan to get 30 percent off your first subscription order. That's Armra dot com slash Megan. Politics and many more. It's bold. No BS news only on the Megan Kelly channel. Sirius XM 111 and on the Sirius XM app. Glenn, there's an update today in the death of Presley Gerber, which we've been covering. Just so awful. Twenty seven years old. And now the Daily Mail is reporting that in the weeks prior to his death, he was, quote, slowly losing his grip. As he fell further into a spiral these past three months, actually, before his sudden death on Sunday, the Daily Mail has learned, said to be, quote, really thin, gaunt, did not even like the sound, did not even sound like his normal self, according to a source close to his mother, Cindy Crawford, who added that Presley sometimes failed to make complete sense. He was getting high before he went to rehab. That's why he went, because he could not kick the habit. He looked terrible before he checked in. That's why he went, because he could not he was really thin and really pale. His face was gaunt. He was depressed in the weeks before his death, also jittery, and again, did not make sense. He looked, says the source, like he was on meth. He had that meth look. He was far from the cover boy he used to be. He had been in rehab many times. He did not like it. He said rehab does not work. Rehab had a 98% failure rate, he said, so he was not a fan. Both Crawford and her husband, Randy Gerber, were desperate for their son to get help. They made him go to rehab because they knew he was using. They were not going to give up on him. They tried another rehab center. They had so much hope, but in the end, he was in and out of rehab all the time. They spent a fortune, and it just didn't work. We've reported yesterday, citing sources, that there's not going to be an investigation. into who was giving him ketamine, because there's a report that he was taking ketamine regularly, allegedly prescribed by a doctor. This was something that he was having an addiction problem with, so there will be questions. We understand LA police are investigating it right now. Who gave it to him, and did that drug play any role in his premature death? What do you make of this case and the awful death of Cindy Crawford Gerbers? Son. I think that it's so important to remember that nothing in this world is free, and so here you have somebody who's born into a situation that most people who aren't born into that situation would think is so perfect that nothing possibly could go wrong, right? You're born to parents who are extremely wealthy. I mean, Cindy Crawford obviously is. Her husband even more so. Because of her fame, every door open. You have access to everything from the time you're born. You have every privilege, every single conceivable thing that you want. It ends up opening the door for your own modeling career. You have a sister who's very successful in her own right, doing modeling and acting. And yet, obviously, there's something extremely dark and sad and missing in his soul, like in his psyche and his mental life that led him to need drugs as a substitute for whatever he was missing, and then that developed into an addiction. And so that's what we're trying to do here, is we're trying to figure out what's going on in his life, what's going on in his life, what's going on in his addiction. Who knows? Sometimes mental health precedes addiction. Sometimes addiction causes mental health. And not only that, he, of course, has access to every single conceivable treatment. And yet, it's not enough to save him. And he tragically dies at the age of 27. I know you've been covering a lot of similar cases of hate and penitent here. I think there was another case very recently of suicide by somebody. These are people who had all kinds of wealth and fame, basically from the beginning of their lives. And how many times have we seen that they end up on an extremely dark road? And I think, obviously, it's very sad. But I think it's something that's very sad. But I also think it's a kind of lesson to Think about what actually matters in life and what makes you happy and what doesn't make you happy in life. It's, I was looking around online just for information about them. And there was Cindy Crawford sat down with Vogue, didn't sit down, but walked around her Malibu home with Vogue and answered their 73 questions where it's, it's so awkward. Do not say yes to this. If they ever ask you, it's like very bad acting. They've clearly both rehearsed the question and the answer, but they try to make it look organic. It doesn't. But here's a bit of that. She featured both children and a lot of her Malibu oceanfront home in the piece. Watch. You want to see a wrap? Let's do it. Now you're stuck on a deserted island and you only have one book. What are you reading? Anything by Jodi Picoult. You're trapped in a movie theater and can only see one movie for the rest of your life. What are you watching? Anything with Meryl Streep. This is a little self-portrait by Kaya and this is Presley's surf photography, shaka. So Cindy, do you have any nicknames for your kids? She calls me Kiki and my brother P. Do your kids have any nicknames for you? Not that we can say in front of her. What's your favorite thing about your kids? That we're amazing. Uh, Kaya, whose interview is this anyway? Sorry. Ask her about her sense of humor. So, so Cindy, what's up with your sense of humor? Um, well, I mean, everyone in my family, they think I have a very inappropriate sense of humor at times. What's your spirit animal? Oh, mama bear. You are valedictorian of your class. That wasn't a question either. I just think that's great. Excuse me. Hi, Pres. Hey, mom. I'm here for my cameo. Wait, what was I supposed to do again? Um, ask me a question. All right. What's your favorite part about being a mom? Oh, unconditional love. Well, I hope that was seamless and organic. I gotta run. Bye. You know, Glenn, I watched this and I can't help but think of her. Her. Family. Dear friend. He was said to be like an uncle to her children. George Clooney, who I really can't stand. He and I have attacked each other publicly many times. However, I do respect that he and his wife, Amal Clooney, have kept their children out of the public eye. They, they don't want people swarming them because they're Clooney's or because of who their parents are. And I do think these celebrities who continuously put their kids. On camera, whether it's to model or to act or to sing or whatever, when they're, you know, because these kids have been on camera since they were little, are taking a very serious risk. Well, I mean, we all know the history of what happens to child actors who become very famous. I actually think like probably the most tragic is Michael Jackson, who, you know, despite his unparalleled success and talent, you know, ended up dead at 50 kind of predictably and had a lot of obvious like roadblocks. Along the way, despite, you know, or because of the fact that he missed his childhood and was exposed to the public, which is hard in every case, let alone when you're a child and you're defenseless, you know, just on those lines, like there was a lot of, I presume you covered it. Like a lot of that, the controversy over that article by Nicole Hannah Jones, the New York Times reporter about her decision to send her kid to a public school as kind of a sociological experiment. And of course, there's a lot of things to say possible. Yeah. Yeah. Just to like prove her ideology and risk her own kid's future, but which ended up being really bad for her. Her child. Her child. Her child. Surprise. But one of the things that really bothered me about it that didn't get a lot of attention was, okay, she wrote about this whole thing. Her kid is now 16. So maybe you can say she's kind of at the age where maybe she can participate in that decision. But 10 years earlier, when she first announced her noble decision, she did it as part of a cover story for the New York Times Magazine and put her six-year-old daughter, a photograph of her on the cover of the New York Times Magazine and spilled in this like 10,000 word article, all of the internal deliberation. And so, you know, I don't want to be too didactic, but there's enough of a pattern of seeing the very poor outcomes for kids. And I don't want to be too didactic. I don't want to be too didactic. kids who are subjected to two-month wealth and celebrity and fame and public exposure from the time they're basically young. It is not how kids are supposed to be raised. And as parents, you're supposed to want to protect your kids. I mean, I can just tell you, you know, in Brazil, because my husband was a member of Congress and I did a lot of like very polarizing reporting, you know, we had to really protect our kids all the time from any kind of public scrutiny because we wanted them to just be kids and have like a normal, you know, life and not be attacked or talked about or known for anything that we were doing. And I just that was such an easy decision for me. I don't like if you're Cindy Crawford, you already have an uphill battle in keeping your kids private. And she's just dragging them as teenagers onto a screen with with Vogue or whatever it is at that age. And of course, they ended up in Hollywood. They ended up with the same career she had. And it just obviously is not a healthy way to be raised as kids. Yeah, it's really not like this article I was reading from points out, oh, they were helicopter parents. They were very involved. I'm sure they were. I'm sure they loved their children. I just you have to question. The decision to thrust a 14 year old, in his case, into the modeling world and repeatedly, even when he was much younger than that, put him on camera publicly, take him to the events, make sure he gets photographed on the red rope line. It's just this is a very dangerous thing to do. You are playing with fire. This is not a harmless act. This, you know, maybe you have a kid who takes to it. From what I know, both kids wound up in therapy and in Presley's case. It didn't work. It was too late for him. So it's very sad. OK, we've got to end on something not sad, which is Kamala Harris. She's back and she has tried out a new accent or it might be the revival of one of her old. It's kind of like a black scent. I mean, you tell me, but she is out there making the rounds and she has decided to drop the following little bit. Do we have it? Hold on. Yeah, I'll let you. Yeah, yeah. Let's listen to it. Sixteen. Talked about it. If you're not at the table, bring a folding chair. Otherwise, it might be on the menu. I'm conflating two people. I think she's drunk again. It's OK to not be in love with a candidate. It's OK to vote and ask everybody else to vote because this choice is better than that one. It's OK. Because this choice is better than that one. It's OK. OK. This is so fake and affected. It's cringy, Glenn Greenwald. But she's the gift that keeps on giving. Unfortunately, the latest news this week is that it looks like she might not be running, at least if you believe the five out of eight campaign aides that I think it was Politico tracked down and asked who don't believe she's getting ready to run. They don't see the outward signs of somebody building a campaign. I'm holding. On hope. But what do you make of her new? It's OK. Accent. You know, what is amazing about Kamala Harris, given how far she rose, is she is probably the least politically talented person I've ever seen. In fact, she has like negative political talent. There's nothing that she does that doesn't you don't find repellent. It's like always just like nails on a chalkboard. Everything she tries, everything she says, everything she does. And the amazing thing is she disappeared for 18 months. So, you know, just like doing speeches or like real estate corporations in Australia for cash. So you would think when she comes back after that, I'm people like, OK, we haven't seen her in a while. I'm willing to give her another. But for me, at least it was like barely gone. Like I found her as repellent as as I ever have. And, you know, this kind of like ability to use different forms of speaking to different audiences. She was speaking to the NAACP. She was obviously trying to be as black as possible with a black accent as possible. It's something that like some people can do, you know, like some southern politicians. Politicians can like speak in a more southern accent when they're speaking to some audiences, modulate a little bit when they're speaking to, you know, like national media or people in the northeast or whatever, the banking centers and some like Obama was good at it. He kind of put on a credible like, but it was very subtle, like his black accent versus like the Harvard East Coast accent that he also had. Subtlety is good. Yeah. Bill Clinton did it. Hillary, I don't know if you remember, but Hillary Clinton in like the 90s, the first time she did that 60 interview, 60 minutes interview about Paula Jones, she was like, I'm not just someone standing by my man. It's like, Hillary, you grew up in. You went to Yale Law School. What is this? But come on. It's so everything she does is so poorly executed that I. Yes. When you said like, hey, let's start talking about something that's not sad. Kamala Harris. My first reaction was, what do you mean? She's that's a very sad topic. But you're right. It's actually funnier than anything else, because because of how untalented she is, she's so unthreatening. So you can really just laugh at her. Yes. And this will end with this clip where she's next to Al-Said in Michigan, the Senate candidate. And he looks like. He would rather be anywhere on Earth than next to her. Watch. Here's another fact. The attack on D.I. is an attack on maternal care. An attack on D.I. to recognize diversity, equity and inclusion is an attack by definition on maternal care, including the need to protect black women, in connection with their pregnancy, childbirth, birth and postpartum care. If he had an eject button, he would have pressed it. Well, it's so ironic because he's supposed to be the left wing candidate, but he's trying to like be a normie Democrat. And she's like the establishment Democrat, but she floats in sounding like she just got out of a Black Lives Matter George Floyd march from like 2020. She sounds like the people in that lesbian bar and always off the drift bar. Yeah. Like she's just always off note, you know, and you're right. He's just like, he's trying so hard to just be like, you know, he had her there because she supposedly is going to help him with black voters. Even though I don't remember that CNN segment, they went into a black barbershop in Philadelphia and they're like, do you think Kamala Harris is black? And all the black guys that were like, not really. And CNN was so embarrassed. She's a mess. She has no political value at all. I can't, I can't wait to find out what she actually decides to do one way or the other. We're either getting Kamala or we're getting Gavin Newsom because he says he's not going to run if she runs. And so, well, I mean, either way, we're going to have a good, good time. Glenn, things are about to heat up in the political lane. Look forward to many episodes with you discussing it all. Great to see you, my friend. Always good to see you. Thanks, Megan. Ah, the one and only Glenn Greenwald. We will see you guys all tomorrow. It'll be Friday. Here's to that. See you then. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.