Degree apprenticeships explained: work, study and uni life | Episode 54

[Music] UniTaste stays proudly presents the Uni Guide, supporting you with all things university. [Music] Hello, welcome to episode 54 of the UniGuy podcast. My name is John Sheik, I'm the founder of UniTaste stays. And today we're going to be talking about degree apprenticeships and the work, study and university life side of them, which follows really nicely because episode 52, so just a couple of episodes ago, we'll look at how to stand out when it comes to your degree apprenticeship application. It's going to be a brilliant episode, and here's a little teaser where you can expect. If you're watching this right now, you are already at an advantage. Yes, close miles don't get fed. Every single thing you could possibly need is all on here. So if you want to stand out, you need to take these bits of advice. Many people usually tend to look at the Uni root. I just knew that I wanted the tangible experience, I wanted to be able to work and earn. How does the university element of a degree apprenticeship actually work in practice? So I've got two fantastic special guests in the studio with me. I'm joined by Elizabeth. Who was actually on episode 52 is our special guest. And Amaya, a level six degree apprentice, currently on a five year programme towards a BSC in real estate management on the root to becoming a chartered surveyor. So Amaya and Elizabeth really want to welcome to you both. Elizabeth, you all know this from the podcast that you appeared on. But we always ask us, right at the start of the podcast, just to tell us a little bit more about themselves. So with that in mind, Amaya, can you just tell us what you do? And what you do? Thank you so, so much for having me. I am the CEO of the Harris State Network that I do alongside Elizabeth. We created the Harris State Network to basically be the bridge between aspiring female talent and the real working world. We know firsthand how difficult it was to get into the degree apprenticeship scheme but also the working world in general, just for young people. As we know, the skill gap is awful. And we basically want to close that gap and help as many women as we can in such a male dominated industry. However, I'm not here to talk about the Harris State Network today. I'm actually here to talk about my job. I am a level six degree apprentice for Collier's International, doing the commercial real estate degree apprenticeship route, which was one of my most like greatest achievements that I've ever done to even get into the history. And I'm really, really grateful to be able to talk about this and actually share my experience with aspiring apprentices. Am I all thank you and so excited to hear more? And I'm also really pleased that Elizabeth's back join us. So I mentioned right at the start, Elizabeth was with us for episode 52. And we looked at how you can really stand out when it comes to an application for a career apprenticeship. So please, if you've not listened as of yet, please do check it out. Because Elizabeth, I'm not just saying it because you're with us. You have been one of my favourite guests we've ever had. I learnt so much and you left inspiring me massively. So please do check that out. But if listeners haven't yet heard that episode, Elizabeth, do you mind just tell us a little bit more about yourself? As Amaya has just said, we are the founders of the Heros State Network, which is basically a community built to bridge this talent between young females and the work in world. So yeah, that's what I do. Fab, thank you, Elizabeth. Well, with that in mind, people have not tuned in here from me. They want to hear from you, babe. So Elizabeth, I'm going to pass things able to your very capable hands. You've lined a few questions up for Amaya. So Amaya, could you start by telling us a little bit more about your current apprenticeship and how your week is like structured between work and study? Perfect. Yes, I can. So before I actually go into my week and my role, I actually want to just go into the degree apprenticeship program because I know when I was an aspiring apprentice, I had no clue how it actually works. And it doesn't help that schools don't have the information or knowledge to actually share to students. So for real estate management, which is the course that I currently do, for a typical university student who just goes to university, it would take them three years to complete. However, while doing a degree apprenticeship, you're in the office four days a week and you have one day a week for your study day. So you're not expected to come in out all this your day just for you to focus on your university work. I'll talk a little bit more about that later on. But it's a five year course. Your first three years, you're studying with my company, we stay in one team for three years. However, other companies, they do it like rotations. Rotation means that you'll go to different teams within the built environment. So then after your three years, you'll have your last two years where you're basically preparing for your APC. The APC is the examination you take to become a chartered surveyor. And it's basically the graduate scheme is what you're kind of fast track to in those last two years. And then after that, you sit your APC and become a chartered surveyor. So it's five year process. But now I'm actually going to my role. So I sit in the business rates team at Collier's International. So business rates are a government tax or non domestic properties. So that would be basically hotels, office space, just anywhere that the like retail space, anywhere that people don't live. One of the best things about my apprenticeship is the fact that I'm not doing the same thing every day. I'm not just sitting in an office just working from a computer. I do a lot of inspections. So I'll make my way around London, and I will go around with my laser, with my graph, inspecting properties. So we basically will measure the area and compare it to the, the m against the BOAs measurements of the property. So if we find discrepancies, such as the property being smaller, or then recorded or a material change in circumstance, then we can challenge that assessment and basically potentially reduce our clients' business rates. Bill. So that's basically what I do. But obviously this is something that I would only do for a short amount of time, and then I'll rotate. So that's the best thing about a degree of apprenticeship that you're not just stuck in one place, you get to actually explore different opportunities. Yeah, especially if you're the young person in the industry, you're really not expected to know what you want to do from this point onwards. But I'm not inspecting, though, obviously, there is the, let's call it the boring part where you're sitting in the office. And you basically have to write up everything that you've learnt through your inspections. So where you'll calculate your floor area, because you'll write up summary valuations, you'll create in your submitting checks and challenges. The list goes on. Obviously, it's very, very different for every single person in reading, but that's just my experience being an apprentice. But yeah. Yeah, and I just love the fact that you talk about the flexibility as well, because I thought that people would already speak about being an apprentice and not doing the same thing every day. Like, you do do different things. And I think it's great that you've really emphasised on that. So even on to the next question. From your experience, how does the university element of a degree of apprenticeship actually work in practice? So this is actually something Elizabeth and I talk about quite a lot. And how a lot of apprentices, well, aspiring apprentices, would assume that you don't actually have enough social time because you're studying and you're working. It is a lot being honest with you, but it's not impossible and it really does depend on both your employer and it depends on the way that you manage stress as well. So my personal university experience, I go to the University of the built environment and I study every single Friday. Now, interestingly, my university is actually online. But when I got my degree of apprenticeship offer and I found it was online, my first thought was, oh no, it's going to be like COVID-19 learning online. So I was really scared because I'm not someone who learns like that. However, I can assure you it's not like that at all. It's actually so organised, you get tasks that you do for every single week and it will be like Mark has done for every single task, which makes it really easy to keep yourself organised with what you're doing but also make sure that you're on top of things. I also was a bit scared that there was going to be a lack of the community aspect, obviously, as these people are not there in real life. But there's so many opportunities for you to connect with people up from the university. For example, there's a women's network, there are different wellness groups. We have student voice panel padlets. I think that's what they're called, you know what I mean? Just like networking things. But we also have different sort of things on our VLE where we can talk to different students. So it's amazing. We all get to hear about our different university routes but also connect with each other on the task. So you mentioned a VLE earlier, would you like to tell us what that is? So the VLE is basically our virtual learning environment. So it just means it's basically our own website sort of thing. That's only for students to enter and it's got all the information that you need on them. So whether that's support that you need with your university assignments, whether that's where you find all your lectures, where you find all your assessment information, every single thing you could possibly need is all on here. That's really reassuring as well, especially when you know that you don't have that support in real life, knowing that whenever you do need help, there are real life lecturers who are here who will do online calls with you and really walk you for everything. So if you are also going to a remote university and you're scared that there's going to be that loss of like the human interaction and community, don't be because there is plenty of it. And another thing to note that I just want to add on to that is just the fact that being a degree apprentice, you get a line manager, so someone at your company, but you also get an apprentice officer. So someone from the university that will take care of all your university work with you. So you're not alone during this whole journey. I think that's really reassuring to hear. So you just previously mentioned the fact that your university is online with UBE. Is that correct? Yes, University of the built environment. Yes, so what would you say in terms of those who may not have a uni online? For example, as an ex-apprentice, I actually went into uni and person. So how was, like, do you know? anybody who's actually doing university in person and how would you compare it? So I've got two people in mind. Let's use Elizabeth as our first example. She worked four days a week and then she had university one time in real life. So that means that she was actually attending the lectures in real life. She was sitting there from like she did crazy hours like seven till like six or something. That's one example of degree apprenticeships. But then I have a friend who within a month will work three weeks and then one week his company will pay for his train up to Manchester pay for his accommodation and he will stay at the university for one week. So that's how it works for some companies. So it actually means he gets the university experience but just for a week, but he gets the accommodation. I have another apprentice friend, he actually lives at his university. So this company pay for his accommodation. So he lives away from home, but that was also because he had to relocate because of his apprenticeship. So it does depend on your situation. Also through talking to your employer, seeing what they can actually do for you because they are here to invest in you. They're looking to have you working for them at the end of it. It's all about organic growth. So yeah, there's lots of different types. Of course, I'm an example of remote. But yeah, there's definitely choices of going in real life. It just really depends on your employee and what your employer signed up to. Okay, so on the topic of that, what would your advice be to any people who want to do an apprenticeship, but they're only finding ones in London and maybe they live in the midlands or would you have any pieces of advice to give to them in terms of what they could do about it or questions they could ask. So my message actually goes out to the businesses like, please, we need more exposure for the people in places that are not London because it's not fair that we have such talented people who have been completely missed because of a messed up system. However, to all the Birmingham Manchester Yorkshire, wherever, please join networking groups, join support groups because there are events that do go on around where you are. It's just you need to have the song on pointing you in the right direction because if you don't have those people pointing you in the right direction, you're kind of just staring at a blank wall and that you're really lucky and you see something will linked in. And most of these events and things are promoted internally for the network or the support group, rather than just promoted on LinkedIn, just for anyone to sort of join. So yeah. And even on the topic of support, looking back to when you were in school, I believe you went sick form, didn't you? Yes. So looking back to sick form, in terms of support regarding going into a degree of apprenticeship, when many people usually tend to look at the uni route, would you say that you were supported and do think students should know to ask for support now, or what would your advice be to students who were also looking to go down that route in terms of support? I'm very local about the fact that my school was not encouraging of the fact that I wanted to do a degree apprenticeship at all. And you would think that the people who are in charge of like next step careers, they would provide you with lots of different opportunities. However, schools really just teach, not just my school, I know so many other girls are in similar situations, but they teach a very linear path, which is that you need to do your GCSEs, do A-levels or college, and then you'll go to university. Yeah, can reply exactly. And I guess when you try and stand out away from that route, people start questioning you, especially when it's something about degree apprenticeships, which is a very, it's new. It is still new, even though we have apprentices like older apprentices, it's just not spoken about enough. And I think a key thing here is that there's a lack of knowledge. And the dangerous thing about that is the fact that if teachers are not educated, then parents are not educated. And it means that parents are then left to think that degree apprenticeship is like a lesser route. When really, actually, you could argue that it's better than university, as you're getting tangible work experience, you're actually working in a role, but you're also getting your university pay for. So I mean, each to their own, but to me, that person, these sounds a lot better than being in student debt. So yeah, my school was not encouraging about it at all, which obviously meant that I was a bit nervous too. And it meant that my mum was super nervous too, because if she's constantly being told by the school, how, what am I is doing is just not the right path at all. Obviously, it's going to make her worry. Yeah. The second question was, what do you think she should know to ask for now? So like if I say, yeah, my biggest advice for students would be to join networks like Elizabeth and I'm a higher estate network, join other networks that are available, such as the land collective. There are all these initiatives out there that are willing to help young people for free. And they do work experience opportunities around London. And as you know, if you want to get into these top apprenticeships, you need to have work experience and you need to have that industry knowledge. So really getting yourself out there, that would be my biggest number one. And definitely get a LinkedIn account. There are so much support on LinkedIn. There are so many people that are willing to help you. All you have to do is just send them a message. I would recommend that all young people, but everyone in general should treat their LinkedIn as a digital CV, especially in a world where AI is taking over reading CVs. It's no longer being done by a human anymore unfortunately. So that would be my two bits of advice. That's really good. So in terms of support and a student being in school, do you think there's anything that a sick for more quality student could actually do in terms of academics or studies? What do you think students should know to ask for now? So I recommend that students go out of their way to ask for opportunities, utilizing your LinkedIn account, messaging people, and also utilizing the network and supporting groups that you're joining. Because these networking groups will allow you to get these work experience opportunities that will allow you to go to networking events. And at the end of the day, your network is your network. You're not going to grow if you're not meeting the right people. Elizabeth and I have always preached that there are only a reason we're in the positions we are now is because we've been networking from a very young age. And not only is it helping you grow and like meet new people and get invited to new events through like a chain of action, but it's also helping you with your vocabulary. It's also helping you learn how to talk a certain way that makes you seem like respectful and also more confident. Because a big thing in life is the way that you speak and your tonality of the way you speak. So yeah, going to these sort of events, you're going to start see how much you grow through being surrounded by a bunch of people that you are actually inspired by. So that would be one of my biggest tips of advice is to be around people that you are inspired by. Definitely. And your spits and facts when you said that your network is your network. So even on the topic of spitting facts, when it comes to the younger people, putting them sort of forward to actually apply for these roles, what are things that you think they should take into consideration while supplying or what they can do to help them? So one of the big things I did say before is the fact that AI has really taken over when it comes to recruiting unfortunately. And this is something that with the horse St. Netwell, we are pushing against because we know how awful it is. But that is why you should get a LinkedIn account. You should use your LinkedIn account as your digital CV, putting all your work experience on there, putting your opportunities on there because it's going to make you look so much better and stand out compared to the other competitors. What I'm saying is a tips of advice that school does not give you. Therefore, meaning that if you're watching this right now, you are already at an advantage. Another thing I would say is one key mistake people make when they're applying for degree apprenticeships that Elizabeth might see all the time is people are just applying for every single role they they see. And through applying to every single thing you see, it may seem great like saying it out loud. But when you actually look at the amount of quality and the passion that you've put into each one, it's not equal. And it can never be equal if you're just applying to every single one and not putting like max effort into every single one. For example, I'm not saying that you need a new CV for every single company, not at all. But I am saying that you should definitely have a cover letter for every single company that you're applying to. You should make it possible because they're wondering what makes you so different. Why should we have you in this room? Because you have to remember that the acceptance rates for these degree apprenticeships is only 0.7%. It's extremely low. So if you want to stand out, you need to take these bits of advice and not just with a pinch of salt, but you need to grab up it. However, I understand where they are coming from when I say that because like, as I said before, I literally only left six warm last year. So I was in one of those positions where I was getting a bit anxious and I was like, oh my gosh, because I'm not going to university. I guess I'm just going to have to just apply for any old role because I so badly wanted to agree with apprenticeships. So I do sympathise and I do understand. However, that's coming from a place of being impatient and also like worrying and anxiety. So it means you're not putting your full self into it. And that all comes back down to linking back to the government. The government needs to invest more into degree apprenticeships. There needs to be a more wider push through schools about what degree apprenticeships actually are. And then maybe it could stop people from just applying to any old role. We're not putting that. They're self a hundred percent into these roles because the outcome is that your morale is just completely on the floor. Like, no, I was, we, we were of no how like top horror stories is being rejected. From an apprenticeship, you were like one more until the last one. So we understand, however, we also are saying that if you want these roles, you need to put max effort into each one because they are. They are reading, they are seeing, but 100% they're also checking the LinkedIn. Yeah, definitely. And I think you've touched on this really briefly as well in terms of AI. So we're hearing a lot more about AI being used in these applications. So what role do you think AI is starting to play in terms of the degree of princesses story? Do you think AI, like what sort of influence do you think AI is having? An awful one, an awful one, because these companies are using AI to recruit, rather than putting their own staff and their own employees at the front line of this, I truly believe that if you are going to recruit young talent, you should be at the forefront of that. A lot of apprentices who like sign up to these things are what sign up to apprenticeships are 17, 18, so and they also do in their A levels at the same time. So it's insanely stressful that you have stress coming from both ways and then you have the stress coming from, oh my gosh, but you're also not going to universities. You're not going on the traditional route. So from my own personal experience, I went through eight stages without talking to a single person with some companies. That's really crazy. Everything about it is disgusting. So if you didn't know companies, some companies will have a black screen and they'll ask you a question and it will say you have two minutes to respond. Then you'll like to make up an answer. Then the two minute time will go off. It will come to like a picture screen of you again. And then all of a sudden, if you go over those two minutes, you're completely cut out and if you have, if you've just finished talking, you just sit there incredibly awkwardly. It's also incredibly awkward, but also it just doesn't take into consideration people who don't have the best living conditions to or the best technology. For example, I have a friend who shares a room with her two sisters. So she doesn't feel like her room is corporate. She feels like she'll get deep marks because of the way that her room looks. So there's those sort of things that's another reason why I believe that AI is just an awful way to recruit. But it's also the fact that you're not even talking to a single person and then getting rejected. How does that even make sense? Now proof that companies can do it without AI is colleagues in Nashville. So I had only three interview stages with colleagues. It started off with me just sending my CB and cover letter. Then I had a team's call a bit like this. And then straight after, I was invited into their London office. How simple. And instead of just getting recruiters, they were all getting different chartered surveyors, directors, people from all over the company to do the recruitment for the young talent. And I think that's a really incredible way of making more inter-person relationship. For example, right now, the person who actually interviewed me at my interview is now my corridor line manager now, which makes the whole experience a lot more nicer because it meant that we already had that relationship before I even started my degree of apprenticeship. Yeah, see that. So that answer was a rollercoaster of an answer. It was definitely highs and lows. But just around this arc, there's one question I think many young people would love to hear some sort of reassurance from. So there's a thing where many people believe that the group and ships are going to older people much more than the younger people and they believe there's a sort of imbalance. So what are your views on that and what would you tell a young person in terms of them having that firm and anxiety? One of the key things I would say is that I don't believe employers are actually looking at your age when they are reading your CB. I mean, a lot of the time people don't really include their age on their CB is literally just your experience. So I do believe that they are just hiring these people because they are more experienced. However, that doesn't mean as a young person, you can't not be passionate and you can't not have experience. Part-time jobs and actually going out there into the real world, getting that industry experience will set you apart, going to these networking events, getting all the work experience opportunities. So I don't really think it's a case of like the these companies like favoriting, but how some people may think the older sort of talent, if anything, it's like great for them because it means that they're getting a new chance at something. So I don't think we should look at it as a competition at all. I think it should be very much like they're looking at who best suits for their company, but also like who suits for an inexperienced wise. So that would be my answer to that. That's an absolutely amazing answer. And yeah, thank you so much for answering these questions. Shout out to Maya, follow her on LinkedIn, the Harris Day Network. Thank you, thank you thank you. Loved this conversation. Maya Elizabeth, thank you so much. I've had flashback Elizabeth to the very episode that we're recording with you and I wrote down so many of your little quotes in the comments you made. And I've done this again, the last one of Maya, if you're wondering that I wrote, is when you say said and hopefully I've raised down right, if you and give me a nod, if I have, if you want to recruit young talent, you need to be at the forefront of that when you say another AI and I've got a nod, so that's good for anyone that's listening. I completely completely, completely agree. And you see people like yourself are just incredible people that every organization company would would want working for them. You think it's such a risk when you're using things like AI and I completely 100% agree with you. Right then, our final question, we always close this podcast with this final question and it's basically giving advice for your young self. So Maya, I've got a question for you and Elizabeth, I've got a question on touch on with you as well. And that is, and Maya, if you could go back a few years and give some advice to your young self, knowing what you do now, and we'll stick to the subject which is all about degree apprenticeships. So maybe on the subject of degree apprenticeships, what advice would you give to younger Maya, now what you do? Okay, I have two bits of advice, then just two quotes, one that really, really stick with me and I always think that, so number one is if you don't ask, you don't get in this world, you need to just ask because the worst you're ever going to get is not even a note, it's just a blank because usually in this industry and in general, when you ask people on LinkedIn, even if they say no to you, they're going to offer you something else in return. So message and usual network, what wise the, and my second thing is that it's only delusional until it actually works out. That's something that me and Elizabeth, like we talk about all the time, like you've been never really expected, we started the the heristic network at 18 years old, like you, a lot of people, when we told them that we were 18, suddenly they didn't want to listen anymore, but if we were having that conversation before and people were like, really, really listening to us and they were like, wow, and suddenly they part our age and it's like, oh, so no, don't listen to any of these people, it's so agist. So yeah, I would just say if you don't ask, you don't get, because it's ties in really nicely, but yeah, love that and completely can relate to that. And I was actually an event recently and I was chatting about running businesses and the student was asking about starting your own business and he asked, he actually asked about advice and and the advice that I gave him was kind of not as good as your advice then, but it's don't be afraid of being ignored. The worst case scenario is you're going to get ignored and some people will ignore you, they might not even look at the messages and stuff and that's your advice I'd give because you know, if you're going into things and you're trying to like different fires and sometimes some of them will catch, but sometimes they won't and just get used to that. But on the positive side is you do reach out to people, most people will respond super positively and see your enthusiasm and you know, this podcast is testament to that. Like I reached out to Elizabeth, that is with them, put me in contact with you, Maya, reach out to you and and we're now here recording the podcast. So thank you so much for joining us and thank you so much for sharing so much brilliant advice, join it. So Elizabeth, having kind of listened in and and being a wonderful co-host on this episode, what would you say your biggest takeaway or takeaways have been? Definitely the last statement, Maya made, in terms of it's all delusional until it works out. There's been so many times where we've walked into rooms and people have obviously looked at us and thought, oh wow, like they must be in their 20s or even maybe just about 30 if they're rude enough. But if we let that kind of dim our light and make us believe, oh we're not old enough to do this. You wouldn't be where we are now. And also I realized that many young people, they like to look up people their age as role models. So if anything ages our biggest advantage because they're more likely to listen to us, then somebody else suited and breoted or somebody in hills like just talking about their experience because sometimes they may just feel like they don't resonate with it enough. And something else, Maya did say as well, was in terms of just asking, like that's something that you mentioned a lot throughout this whole podcast, I think is really important. Definitely if you don't ask, you don't get the worst you can get is genuinely actually a blank like me and my arm, even now, with her estate, sometimes we send emails, we don't hear back, but you just don't really let that get to you, just still keep on pushing. So basically everything on Maya said was excellent. So that's so that's what yeah, there's not there's a single statement quote. Yes, close miles don't get fed like genuinely like you can't sit there and just be like, hmm, because you're going to get, hmm, that's what you're going to get. So yeah, we even a new episode, we also got a new Elizabeth quotes that's fantastic and I've tried with Tim, the producer, just blind the scenes, just the way you answer in there and Tim remembers you saying, don't deny yourself for the room does to which kind of relates really well to this as well. Fantastic, what a brilliant conversation, just like episode 52 was. So the final thing for me to do is just say a massive thank you to Maya and also Elizabeth, really great episode. Cheers guys, you've been listening to the uni guy supporting you with all things university. Why are you here? Why not give us a rating? If you have any comments, suggestions or want to ask us any questions to all, please contact us using [email protected]. Stay tuned, like and share as always, take care.