Define Your Own Reality with Trevor Noah

You had me dying talking about your grandmother and visiting the village and, you know, just describing her because she couldn't see. My great-grandmother, yeah. Your great-grandmother, right. I would say she's like our adopted great-grandmother because technically she wasn't blood relative. But that's how that all happens, right. She was our great-grandmother. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you deciding that you were going to try to poop inside. Yes, that's a true story. I love that story. Again, now, here I will blame apartheid. Before you blame me, let it be clear what you see what racism does. If we had an indoor toilet, if the apartheid government had given ablution facilities to all people, I wouldn't have had an outdoor toilet. There wouldn't have been a rainstorm that stopped me from going outside. I, as a child who was afraid, wouldn't have had to resort to relieving myself. And by the way, not on the floor, on a piece of newspaper. You got newspaper. But she's like… Who's there? Who's there? That's so, that's horrible. Hey, how you doing? I am good. How about you? I'm great. A busy time for you? You know, yes. Coaching in full swing? Not in full swing. But school is in full swing. So we just had homecoming weekend and it was a success. Were there dates? There was one date for the junior and a group for the freshman. So was it a one-on-one date? Did you drive them? No, I did not. How did they get there? Kelly drove. Okay. You said that like no parent drove. No, I said it like I didn't drive. I didn't drive. But it was a group of them. So what happens these days is a group gets together. They go take pictures. They go get dinner and then they go to the dance. Homecoming is like prom. No, because the dinner isn't like a sit-down dinner like prom would be. What, they go to Chuck E. Cheese? Yeah, they go just, we had dinner at our house and we had a local chicken's place. Okay, all right. Well, it sounds fun. The pictures, their pictures, they both look so handsome. Oh, thank you. Yeah, yeah. So fun to be had by all. But we've got. How about this? Yeah, we feel pretty honored to have Trevor Noah with us today. I mean, I can tell you when I've told friends, family, it's almost like, you know, everybody, there's a hush. They're like, no. You kidding? He's an enigma. And we have to admit, when we were first starting this out now, you know, we're into our, almost into our third season now. But he was one of the first guys on the list. He was. He was one of our top. Top. Try to get him. We got to get him. So we feel like we're really growing up in the podcast space. I know. And let me tell you, Kelly is so upset she's not here. Kelly's my wife, as you all know. And she is, she is a big Daily Show fan. Yeah, yeah. So. All the things. But why don't we do a proper introduction and get this party started. As you all know, we're talking about Trevor Noah, a two-time Emmy Award winning comedian, writer, and producer. He is a former host of the Daily Show. He is the author of the number one New York Times bestselling books, plural, Born a Crime and Into the Uncut Grass. Additionally, he hosts the weekly Sirius XM podcast, What Now? with Trevor Noah. He is also the founder of Day Zero Productions and the Trevor Noah Foundation. So, the guest, Trevor Noah, please. What are you doing? Oh, Trevor's like. Step in. Are you talking to me? Trevor's like, now, now. Trevor Noah, please, it's hilarious. Thank you very much. How are you? Welcome, welcome. Thank you very much. Thank you for this. Are you kidding me? Thank you. I don't understand. I was on the list and then how did I not get told about the list? I don't think we could get you. We couldn't get you. That doesn't sound right. We couldn't get you. You were too busy. Too busy. That does not sound right. And that can't be. At all. There is no way. There was no world where I was un-gettable. To die. I don't know. Michelle and Craig couldn't get me. No. Let these rumors not persist, please. Let the truth be told. I was very gettable. Oh, man. Well, it's exciting that, you know, you're celebrating 10 years of Born a Crime. 10th edition. 10 wild. 10 years. It's really wild. You have more hair there, but it's the same thing. It's like, oh, my God. 10 years. I'm genuinely shocked. Shocked. Genuinely, genuinely shocked. You are shocked. You know, it was. I read the book when it first came out. Thank you. And I listened to it on audio. Thank you. That's my favorite because that took me almost longer to do. Oh, my. You put more in it than I put into my audio books. I mean, you had accents. And I was feeling kind of like, I should do more. I was like, he's really good. It's like he's a comedian or something. But it is. I mean, it's just amazing how. And it's wonderfully amazing how relevant and impactful it has been and continues to be. Yeah, thank you. You know, it is beautifully written. It is hilarious, too. But it's also, you know, quite telling how far we have to go and how far we've come. And we want to talk a little bit about it for because 10 years, you don't know. There's a whole new generation out there of people who have not interacted with the book. And so much of Born a Crime is like a true tribute bow down to Patricia. Oh, it is. Yeah. Yeah. Well done. Well done. How's your mom doing? Oh, blessed. What's she up to? Blessed. Yeah. No, she's. My mom lives a very, very disconnected life. I would say disconnected in terms of how we would think of living life and then really spiritually connected. You know, so my mom grounds herself. She's. She's always in the garden. She's cutting the grass. She's taking, pulling out the weeds. She's doing all the things that we talked about hating as kids. Yes. But she's always been somebody who feels like she's living in the universe, if that makes sense. You know? So, yeah, she's doing wonderfully. She's healthy. She's strong. That's so good. Yeah. I can see she's getting a little bit older now. Yeah. Yeah. So now she'll be a little bit softer, which is something I noticed. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you said in the book that. She's never scared even when she should be. Yeah. That reminds me of our mom. Oh, yeah? But I was wondering how that sort of life edict represents itself in you. Well, it depends on the scenario. You know, I think one of the things that fascinates me about parents is they spend their whole lives teaching their kids things, but they don't realize that kids are just learning what the parents do. You know, so what you teach is just words written out. What you do is essentially what the kids mimic. And so I think of that with my mom as well. She taught me so many wonderful lessons that I still try and process today. Sometimes I'll only understand them when I'm older. I'll be like, oh, that's what she meant. She wasn't crazy. Okay. Okay. You know, but there are things that she did. So in terms of what she did, my mother's actions were fearless. My mother's actions were. Adventurous. My mother's actions were novel. My mother's actions. These are things that I saw her doing. And I think without realizing it, it became a part of who I am as a person. So I saw her learn multiple languages and speak to different people and try their language even when she was terrible. And so I think I learned that. I went, oh, it's fun to learn other people's languages. It's fun to try and be something in a different world. It's fun to go somewhere new, to meet new people, to try a whole new way of existing. A new profession. Something you don't feel like you're qualified for. All of these things stayed with me. In terms of fearlessness in life, I actually think many kids, not all, but I think many kids will. They sort of counterbalance their parents. So I think because my mom was so outgoing, I was a little bit more shy. Because she was fearless, I learned to be fearful on her behalf. And so a lot of the time, a lot of the fights my mom and I would have would be around. I would go, you're not being fearful enough. And she'd be like, no, we'll be fine. I was like, no, no, no, no, no. You're not being fearful enough. And so I over-indexed for fear in life. She under-indexed and that would sort of be our balance. And then now, as time has gone, I've sort of like tried to work on lowering my fear. And then I think she's sort of gotten back to a healthier place of fear. Yeah, yeah. Setting the context for her life, which you do so well in the book. She had a hard way to go. Everyone did, yeah, but my mom. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yes. And we talked about setting the stage for people new to the book. Yeah, people who don't know. Because we can't assume in this day and age that people are being educated and they're aware of what apartheid was like. You were born before it was dismantled and lived after. So you came into being in a really unique time where you have a full understanding of both ways of living. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. It would be great to help set the context for what politically and. you know what apartheid was how you know how it all sort of set the stage for your life in so many ways yeah whenever i speak to somebody who has never heard of it or doesn't understand it i would say apartheid was the simplest way i can put it is it was racism perfected yeah fundamentally the south african government needed to find a way to oppress every person of color regardless of their race but they needed to do it in such a way that they wouldn't expose the fact that they were a minority right so in many places in the world people were subjugated and oppressed but this was by a majority and and and in south africa it was the opposite you had a small population of white settlers who had come into the country and they wanted to run a country that was predominantly black had an an indian population that had also been shipped in for labor and had a number that far uh you know far outnumbered them in terms of people so they developed a system which is crazy they they went they looked at australia they looked at um the netherlands they looked at america's laws you know in and around jim crow they they they looked everywhere and tried to create the perfect system of racism that they could and they named it apartheid um which is from the dutch word apartheid you know and the system defined everybody's life based on the color of their skin and if you were a black person you were at the bottom of the totem if you're a white person then the world was designed for you you got assistance from the government you couldn't be homeless you couldn't be unemployed you couldn't like they really really the government did its best funny enough the government did a great job and did what a government should do but only for one group of people not for everyone and everyone else's lives was defined by the color of their skin so for me i mean my existence it was strange you know the title of the book came from a joke that i used to tell people which was true my mother's a black woman casa woman born in south africa father swiss from switzerland a white man they got together when it was illegal these were called the laws of miscegenation which i think you had in the u.s as well yeah barack was born a crime too there you go yeah and so completely completely against the law they did it my mom had me and that's where my journey begins in this world where for six years i lived as this sort of persona non grata fugitive but i but i didn't know people sometimes feel bad for me and they go what was it like trevor oh my god you grew up in this it must have been so hard i go guys i was oppressed by my mother in my opinion the apartheid government was second on my list when i look at systems that needed to be dismantled apartheid was number two for me um and i think that's that's the hallmark of good family a good community is that i genuinely thought our lives were normal yeah it's only when i grew older and it's only in hindsight that i went wait what was happening here yeah and that's what it was so my mom would get arrested regularly for being with my father or even just being in um town like downtown yeah you couldn't be there if you're a black person past a certain time without a certain permit your movements were restricted the areas you could live in was restricted and so yeah this it's a crazy way to begin a story and a life incredible but that's the only life i've lived yeah yeah and you talk about her being not fearful enough there is a crime example completely well i like how you talk about when you grew up and you realize there were other kids like you their parents just moved out of the country they ran yeah they fled they fled and you were sort of like uh mom we you mean we could have gone to another country and lived a semi-normal life yeah and her reply was oh her reply was very simple she was like but this is my country she still says that which i which i love you know yeah i i remember when i first started traveling this was now in my mid-20s i would say okay i would be in another country i'd bump into a person who looks exactly like me and they would go hey i was born in south africa or my parents are south african same as you one parent white one parent black because of that we had to flee the country because otherwise for again for those who don't know what the government would do is they were so entrenched in this idea that they would split families up so my dad would be superior to me my mom would be inferior to me i was in this middle band what they termed colored which was now a skin tone but what's crazy about this is like white people could get demoted to my skin tone like to my skin you know what i mean like your classification yeah you tanned too much as a white person in south africa you were because you were on the edge for real because it was all subjective too it was like some dude at the dmv is like colored exactly literally exactly that that's how they did they did they have you heard of the pencil test oh we have the paper bag tests here what was the paper bag test the same as the pencil test but if you're darker than the color of a paper bag then you you know how old is the paper bag it's like it's like a new paper bag that would just be how you think about it trevor no i'm just trying to figure out like what my leeway is is it jewel is it from a grocery store yeah i'm trying to understand how strict your system was you know it's pretty loose it's pretty loose you know um and black people were using it to you know test and divide amongst us i did not know that yeah yeah so skin color colorism as you hear it yes colorism of course i mean it's and that was during the time of segregation slavery separating house negroes from field negroes and oftentimes there was intermarriage and children of masters and you know all the president's men blah blah right so it's you know it's just that um you know what like you say in the book in america you know you have an ounce of a black right it was the one drop rule right the one drop rule um and your classifications were much more subjective yeah in south africa they couldn't afford that because they were already struggling with the numbers that's right so that's that's what's always fascinating me about race is how it is very real but at the same time completely subjective as a reality yeah so you see in one part of the world people said one drop of black makes you black because we need more black people and we're not trying to allow people into the club and on the other side of the world they went no no no no one drop doesn't make you black that's right we've got enough black people we need to create something new and it's it's amazing how that like defines our entire existences yeah when it starts to get cold all i really want to do is escape to somewhere warm somewhere like south florida where you can spend the morning by the water wander through 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I don't understand the lightning bolt that was my mom. Because if anyone asks me where I got me from, it's easy for me. You go like, oh, Trevor, you're this and you're that. I go like, oh, yeah, a lot of it. My mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom. But then with her, I go, where? Where did you get that idea from? Where did you get that intuition from? Where did you get that? That whatever it may be, where did you get it? She's such an outlier that I'm still constantly fascinated by her. And I'm blessed that we've lived a long, fruitful life together where we've seen these ebbs and flows. And the one day, you know, she called me. I wrote about, so in the epilogue for the book, I decided to write answers to questions people have had. Because everyone asks me questions all the time about the book. And so I said, you know what, for the 10th anniversary, instead of just doing a reprint, I'm going to do a reprint. And she said, you know what, I will write more book. Yeah. You know, full of questions. And one of the big ones is people, how's your mom? And how's this? And the biggest thing I've noticed is I'm always fascinated by how much she changes. Still. Still. Yeah. She still changes. She still changes. The most recent one for me, when AI was first becoming, like when ChatGPT was first a thing, I remember showing it to her. And her going, I don't need this. I don't want this. There's no reason. There's no reason there's no world. And then now she'll be like, oh yes, I was using AI to figure out in the garden. I'm looking, I'm trying to see why these plants are dying. And you know, and with AI, what I'm trying to do. And I'm like, oh, okay. And I said to her like, what changed? What changed? And then she said to me, she said, well, I think when you introduced it to me, I didn't like the idea of learning something new. And sometimes I'm a little resistant. She said, yes, honey, I'm a little resistant. I don't want you to teach me. I'm his mother. How can he, how can he teach me about things? I taught him. But then after you leave, I pause and I say, no, no, don't be a bitch. You can also learn. And I'm like, mom, don't call yourself that. She's like, it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. My child. And, and really the last thing she left me with, you know, like, like on one of our most recent, I'll take her out to like lunch on Sundays and we just, we just hang. Cause that's what she used to do for me as a kid. Sundays was my day. She'd take me wherever I wanted to go. Eat and play, throw Frisbee or whatever. So now I do that for her. And the one day I was just sitting there watching her walk around a garden I had taken her to. And the thought that just came to my head was for everyone in the world, I went, may your parents live long enough to heal the wounds that they inflicted upon you. That's really sweet, but it's funny. You know what I'm saying? Oh man, yes. Yes, that's why I'm laughing. It's perfect. I don't care who you are. Your parents have inflicted wounds upon you. I do believe with enough time, they will heal those wounds. And you will be part of that healing, but you need the time. And if you have it, it's amazing. You sort of start to meet in the middle. You get closer to them and they get closer to you. And then you go, oh. But it requires, as your mother's showing, the curiosity to continue to grow. And that's not always true with elders. But I want to get back to a couple of things. First of all, tell me about your relationship with your younger brothers. So it's been an interesting one because we're separated. My middle brother's 10 years younger than me and the youngest is 20 years younger than me. And so our lives have been parallel, but completely different. I always joke with them and I say, don't forget, I changed both of your diapers. For real. We didn't have babysitters. I was the babysitter. So I was changing diapers. I was feeling them. I was rocking them to sleep. I was, like the joke I always say to them is, you can't beat me in a fight based just purely on principle. You're stronger than me. You're more athletic than me. You're everything. They're taller than me. They're everything. But I go, you will never beat me in a fight because I will visualize you in your diapers and that will give me everything I need. But what's been beautiful about it is it is not a fixed relationship in that if you ask me this question five years ago, you ask me today, ask me in five years, it'll constantly be changing because we are constantly learning each other. You know, my youngest brother, Isaac, is probably one of the wisest people I know on this planet. He teaches me things every day, but he's also a goofball, you know, and we still have fun and we still like, and there's many things that he's blessed me with in life because he goes, you were like this older figure in my life. You're sort of like a cool uncle, but also a brother. And so I got to experience life through him and with him in a different way. And then with my brother, Andrew, that's all, it's a different dynamic as well, where he's growing. And now because of age, we're closer together and we're finding new ways to connect. So it's been an interesting journey. The one thing I do love is we share the one common track. And so mom is like our, we all grew up in the same house with the same rules, experiencing the same thing. And she didn't ease up on them when they, as you got older and she got older, did she you find she eased up a bit? I believe that she eased up on the youngest, but I also think it wasn't necessarily that she eased up on the youngest. I think the youngest was smart enough to articulate things to her that we necessarily weren't. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I do. And so he credits me with it, but I credit him with it. He says, because of me, he felt like he could see a different reality and he could express that to my mom. For me, my mom was my mom. There was no older person who I could say, no, you're wrong. You're wrong. And, you know, because of this. With him, he goes, no, I spoke to Trevor and actually this, my opinion holds. I still think this is valid. But you did your fair share of debating with your mother. I love the. Too fair share. You're trying to call it fair. But I love the, you started airing your grievances in letters. We could. You know, it's like. My mom is a writer. That's the only way you could win. No, my mom is a writer. I'm a speaker. I hear almost everything a person says and I listen to it. I can process it. The argument I would have with my mom, I think would be something that many people will experience, whether it's in romantic relationships or otherwise. Someone says something to you, but somewhere in communication, pieces get lost. They think they told you something. They don't realize you heard something completely different. And that leads to a clash. With me and my mom, it was something as simple as her saying, hey, when you have a chance, please clean the passage, you know, passage that connects the house. Clean the passage. I would clean the passage. She would come home and then go, come to my room and be like, why didn't you clean? Then I'm like, what do you mean the passage? And then she'd be like, no, look at the toilet. Then I go, that's not part of the passage. If you look, the passage leads to the toilet. And then at some point becomes the toilet. I'm not, by your logic, every room is now the passage. She's like, but it goes to the toilet. Then I'm like, yes, yes. All roads lead to Rome. However, I was not tasked with cleaning Rome. So do not punish me for cleaning. And we would go back and forth on this so much that at some point we said, listen, this is unsustainable. I would say to her, this is what I said. And this is what you said. She'd say, no, that's not what I said. Well, that's not what I meant. And so at some point we went, let's write it all down. Write it like a contract. Trevor, this is what I expect of you. These are your chores. She would write them down word for word. I would look at them. I'd go, okay, we agree. And then when I'd go and do them, I would have that. If we have an argument, I would then write letters back to her. So she would say, I don't, I don't think you did a good job with this. And then I would write back. And then my favorite, cause when I was young, I didn't really understand these things, but I would write like, dear sirs slash madam, to whom it may concern, dear mom. I love, I love to whom it may concern. Dear mom. It's one of my favorite phrases in the English language. To whom it may concern. If it concern you, then it be to you. If it do not, then not. If you accidentally read this letter. I love it. Does it concern you? Then no. So I would write that. To whom it may concern, dear mom. And I would write out my grievance. And I would slip it under her door. And then she would read it. And then she would respond to me. And sometimes that's the only way we could communicate without conflict. Wow. Because, look, it taught me a valuable lesson genuinely for life. And that is, we sometimes take for granted how many of our fights are just… They're amplified by the micro-expressions and moments that we get. So I'm looking at you going like, Craig, are you disrespecting me while I'm telling you this? Are you doubting me right now? Why are you looking at me like that? And you go, why am I looking at you like that? Do you know how you're looking at me, Craig? I'm not looking at you anyway. Why are you doing that with your arm? Why are you shrugging me? You see this all of a sudden? Words have this powerful thing with… The interpreter can… The interpreter can sort of like take it for themselves the way they want to. So, yeah, it was fun. It was conflict. But you look back and you go like, what a hilarious time. And your mom had a wicked sense of humor. So here we go. She still does. I mean, half the book is just cracking up about, you know, the way she'd fix you. Especially whining in the store. Pretending not to be your mom. Let me tell you something. Still does. Still… I grew up with comedy. I grew up with comedy. I grew up with humor. Comedy is almost the professional application of humor. That's what it really is. But I grew up with… I have yet to come across an oppressed people who doesn't have the best sense of humor. Yeah. You know? It is both the gift and the curse of suffering. Is that you have to define a reality and you have to create a release and a relief for yourself. Because what's happening doesn't make sense. And that's what humor does for us. You know? So, yeah, she… I mean, there were things that she would do where I'd go like, you cannot do this because you're a mother. Mothers are not allowed to do this. And she would go, but it's funny. And I was like, it is, but you're a mother. You're not allowed to do this. There were just so many things that she would do. But I like that she taught me about that. I like that I got to see her find something funny. I like that I got to see her break the rules. That's what I think humor is. It's also like the breaking of a societal rule or construct. I enjoyed that. Was your home funny? Oh, my God. Yeah. Mom used to… Just out of the blue, decide to mess with us. And remember the year… We had this crazy Halloween mask that was a voodoo doll. It was neon colored and teeth and hair. And I don't even know where it came from, but it was around the house. And we're just sitting around, living our lives. And then mom walks in quietly into my room with the mask on. And it glows in the dark. And just stands quietly. There's hair on it. It's an old mask. And she doesn't say a word. And I'm like, mom. And then she laughs and she goes, I'm going to get your brother. Shh. Don't say anything. So they both walk in to me. And then she… Remember the time she… So let me set it up. We were a family of whoever was home first would go in the house, get upstairs, turn all the lights out, and then try and scare the people who came in. Oh, my goodness. I mean, it was a cottage industry for us. And my dad, who was disabled, would be hobbling to get in the house first so he could scare us. So one day, my mom is in her bedroom. And we had a very small house. It is not bigger than this room. Yeah. So her bedroom was off to the side. And I had the ability to walk and step on the floor where I wouldn't make any sound. I love this. And I just love to do that. It was like… It was like, you know, I thought I'd be… So it was like wooden floor. Wooden floor. And we're on the second floor. So you could hear. You knew where it off. Yeah, okay, yeah. So I just did that normally. And I walked into her room. And she was in the drawer looking for something. And I was like, hey, mom. And startled her. She swore I scared her on purpose. So to get me back, I am in the shower. And you're like 10, 12. I'm 10 years old. She did this to me. And somehow, she sneaks in there and lays down. And she's down on the bathroom floor. My goodness. Like she's dead. And I'm just showering. And then I turn the shower off. Open the shower curtain. I scream at the top of my lungs because I thought she was dead. She's laid out like this. It's like, how did you think of that? And then she heard me scream. And she looked up and went like this. And starts laughing. And I am shaking. I am literally shaking. And she's laughing so hard. And then she realized I'm really scared. Oh, no. And from that point on, no one ever got scared in our house again. You ruined it for everyone? I ruined it. My mom ruined it. I didn't ruin it. No, I'm pretty certain you ruined it. She ruined it. I'm pretty certain you ruined it. You started it. But my dad was funny. Yeah. My mom was funny. But Mish was really the funniest. Really? He's never said this before. I've talked about you writing those funny stories. She would write funny stories as a six-year-old kid. And would read them. To the three of us. And we'd all three be laughing. Out loud. Hard. Whatever. This is about you, Trevor. No, this is about us. What do you mean? This is about us. If I came here and only talked about me, we'd be like, oh, so how was your time with Michelle and Craig? We'd be like, I don't know. I just talked about me. Yeah, it was just pretty much me. And what did you learn? Nothing. I don't know anything about them. Yeah, I just went and I spoke about myself. No, we're here about us. We didn't go on to be comedic and funny. And famously funny like you did. That's probably because you did well in school. Yeah, that's true. That might be true. Yes, it was. There you go. Trevor, your uncle called you terror. I mean, I was like, you know, and when you start the epilogue, the news section, I love that you talk about the fact that as an adult, you realize you had ADHD. Yeah. And as a mother reading who you were, that's all. I'm like, oh, he's undiagnosed. When you were reading that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, just all the descriptions of you. You were kind of a troublemaker. Kind of, again, an understatement. Very kind. Super fast. You played tricks on your classmates. Learned to run because you were always in trouble. And couldn't really focus, but it was so smart. Smarter than the teachers could understand. Focused on the wrong things. It was like, ah. So it was interesting getting to the end where, because it's so interesting in these interviews, especially with creatives. There are more and more people who are learning that they're either on the spectrum, have ADHD at an adult life. Yeah. They're just learning about it. Although the signs were always there. So I think this is just my opinion anecdotally. You know, so based on what I've read, based on the research I've seen, talking to experts, I believe, the hypothesis is, you know, sometimes people will draw the incorrect correlation. They'll be like, I think, I feel like everyone sort of all of a sudden has ADHD. I'm like, no, no, no. I think what you may be noticing is certain spheres and certain areas that people go into will over-index for ADHD because those are areas that cater to ADHD. So athletes, for instance, generally over-index for ADHD, which makes a lot of sense when you think of what it takes to be a high-level athlete. Your brain has to be paying attention to things. Things that are happening, going to happen and have just happened. You need to be paying attention to the moment, but also not at the same time. You need to be hyper-aware. You need to be. All these things are present in ADHD. You look at it for a creator, for a musician. The art of creating is distraction. You know, it's this weird balance of being hyper-focused on one idea and being so distracted that you can be creatively inspired. That's it. Comedians, we're on stage. Yeah. We're looking at an audience. We're telling you a joke. But at the same time, we're thinking, who wore that top? Who is this person? Who did you come with? Look at their face. All of this is happening in our heads at the same time. So it is. I believe it's more likely you will find yourself succeeding in an area that plays to those strengths and you will most likely find yourself failing in places that don't. So in school, a lot of people with ADHD do really badly. In office environments, in, you know, one of the ones that's really fascinated me is reading the percentage of the prison population that they've sampled that is over-indexed for ADHD. And I think to myself, imagine how crazy it is if we are living in a world where we think people are criminals, but we're just living in a world with people whose brain chemistry means that they are under-stimulated or over-stimulated. They do naughty things as a child. They then get incarcerated as a child. That leads to a spiraling. Yeah. And then they're like, their lives end up in criminality when in fact, it was just, if you just caught them at that right moment. That's right. Like for me, if I went to jail every time I was caught shoplifting, if I was prosecuted, I wouldn't be here with you today. Simple as that. But because the local grocery store guy knew me and we grew up in a community, it was more like, you know, why are you shoplifting, Trevor? What are you, I'm going to call your parents. Yeah. Jail wasn't seen as a concept. When I broke windows as a little kid, if I got arrested, I wouldn't be here with you. When you burned the white people's house down. I didn't do that. No, no, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let's go back. Please, please. Please, Mrs. Obama, please. When the White People's House burned down because of me. Okay. I think it's very important. It's true. It's true. They might still put you in jail for that version. Yeah, but that story still till this day, I stand by it. I was playing with flammable materials, trying to see different ways that you could like set things on fire. Magnifying glasses, straw, I was trying all of that. My actions, without me being there, led to the burning of a house. I did not wish to burn a house. I'm not one of those, I don't like burning things. You're not an arsonist. No, no, no. You had your issues, but arson wasn't one of them. You know, there's that thing. Have you ever seen that thing in stories where sometimes people go, all the crimes I committed, I got away with. And then the one time I didn't do it, I got caught. That's what happened to me. I didn't do that thing. It's really, really wild. But that was young Trevor. My great-grandmother. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that story. Now, here I will blame apartheid. On a newspaper. But she's like. Who's there? Who's there? That's so horrible. I can still. There's things in life that you'll never forget. I promise you, I can still see it. So, Koko, Koko used to sit like this. She'd sit right next to the. We had the. The stove is still in the house, by the way, in my grandmother's home. My grandmother's passed away. The house is still there. The stove is there. It's a coal stove. And my great-grandmother would sit there and just stay warm. And she couldn't see. And so she'd just sit there and talk to everyone. But in the rest of the day, she'd just be quiet. Quiet by herself. And then sometimes there'd be a radio or something. And then I will never forget this. Because I'm like here next to her doing. And she's there. And I'm busy plopping away on this little newspaper. I'm a little kid. Tiny little kid doing this. And then she stops and she's like. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. I'm sitting there going. And she's like, I swear somebody's here. And the whole time I'm like, I can't. I can't. I can't reveal myself. But then your mother finds the poop and you got it. So what happened was I didn't want to go outside. It was raining. It was a thunderstorm. I was scared. My great-grandmother's in the house. I think I didn't really fully acknowledge that she was there. So I decided. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to poop on a piece of newspaper. Take the newspaper and then go throw this away later. My grandmother's there. Unfortunately experiencing this without realizing what's happening. I do my business. You can imagine little Trevor. I know. Fold the newspaper up. I know. Go and throw it in the trash. The inside trash. Yeah, in the trash. Because my brain doesn't. You know what I mean? Just throw it away. Plop it away and I'm done. Everyone starts to come home. You know, it's 4 p.m., 5 p.m. People come. They come back from work. My great-grandmother says to my gran and to everyone goes like. She's like, oh, yes. She's like, there was something here today. She's like, oh, hey, yes, I heard something. Hi, yes, yes. She's like, I could feel there was something off. And she's very spiritual. She's like, it felt like there was like an evil spirit or something. And she's like, and there's been a smell that's been since the thing. And everyone starts going like, yes, I can actually, I can smell it. I can smell it. There's something. And now everyone's searching. And now because, you know, the people are like, it must be witchcraft. Somebody's bewitched the family. Where's this thing coming from? And now my mom's like the most like forward and just like she's smart. And she's super spiritual. And they go, what is it? And they ask my mom. And my mom goes, I'm going to find this smell. I'm going to find this smell. And she goes and then she opens the trash can, digs a little bit and finds this little package that I've left. Opens it. And then she goes, this is it. Demons. This is it. Witchcraft and demons. She's like, I know what's happened here. Somebody's trying to bewitch us. And then they were like, we're going to burn this and we're going to pray all of us here. We're going to pray against this thing that has come into our family. We're going to pray every single one of us. They were like, we're going to. And it became this huge gathering now. And they are praying. And I mean, and when people are praying against like Satan and the devil, they don't hold back. There's no like, you know, nuance and compassion. No, it's just like we rebuke this and Lord, and we ask that you kill this spirit behind this and I'm there. And I've never anti-prayed before in my life because I'm part of the prayer, but silently I'm going, God, don't punish me. This is a misunderstanding. Please, Lord. It wasn't. And they're going like, kill these demons, Lord. And then whoever brought this, let them be struck down. I'm like, don't strike me down, Lord. I'm sorry. Don't strike me down. Didn't tell anyone in the family. Till the book. Till I wrote the book. Nobody. Nobody knew. That's great. Nobody knew. That's how young Trevor's mind worked. I feel like every year I tell myself I'll get ahead of the holidays. I'm going to have the gifts figured out, the decorations up, everything handled nice and early. And then somehow the holidays still sneak up on me. So this year I'm starting early and it's so, so easy to do it with Amazon. All year I've been making little notes for myself about what I think each of my friends and family might want. And that's tricky. It's trickier for some than others. Like, I have maybe 10 ideas written down for Kelly, but only one or two for my sister. I think she'd like a Kindle, but I might want to do a bit more research before I lock it in. 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It's the best way to support the show. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Quince. It's brought to you by our sponsor, Midi Health. I remember it was first term in the White House. And they just would come on. And I talked to my doctor about it. It's like, oh, you're in. That's what's going on. And I wasn't sure. I didn't feel like I needed to start taking hormones. I wanted to feel it out and see what it felt like. But these hot flashes were happening every 15 minutes. You know, and it's this rush of a feeling. Now, porn therapy is safe for most women, actually. But I want to be clear that hormone therapy is not for all women. And it's also not the only answer. Like menopause care is a much bigger thing. It's about supporting women in a multitude of ways. And that's really why I helped found Midi and why we treat all these women at Midi Health. Midi Health is a telehealth clinic made for women. And we really were founded to really meet the huge care gap for women in perimenopause and menopause, which means we can help guide women through the hormone conversation. So you can go to our website, which is joinmiddy.com. dot com. That's join M-I-D-I dot com. And really, the website helps you navigate. You can book an appointment right there and you start your journey there. So this brings me to the fact that you got into comedy, not humor. You got into comedy unintentionally. Yes. Yeah. Because you're so naturally funny. Thank you. I mean, even when you're getting interviewed on a non-funny interview, you're funny. Can you talk about getting involved, getting into comedy? So comedy was a, again, my life is a series of fortunate and unfortunate events where luck has, you know, connected with my journey at the right time. Just for perspective, stand-up comedy wasn't a thing that was widely accessible in South Africa because free speech was illegal, you know, for most, so for my beginning of my life, my parents' life. So you couldn't grow this art form when the very nature of speech was against the law. There were a few white comedians who tried, you know, like legendary Peter Dirk Ace and he would cross-dress and he would criticize the government and he would get arrested time and time again. Black comedian wasn't even, that doesn't even exist as a phrase. One, because as a second, black people weren't allowed to congregate in numbers larger than I think was 304. That was immediately considered a political gathering of some sort, right? So this didn't exist. So I didn't grow up with this. We didn't get comedy from the outside because again, the government restricted what we could see, how we could see it. Even after apartheid, the broadcasting corporation was very conservative in what they would show us on TV, what we would be given access to. So humor was only what I saw with my people, which is great. But comedy comes in purely by luck. A few comedians in the country, like just this amazing group of comedians decided, all of them, like basically comedians of color decided to do this thing that never existed. You know, David Gao, Riyad Moussa, like all of these guys came together, Joey Razdeen, Ronnie Mudimula. And I remember being this kid watching this going, who are these people? You know, Chris Forrest and David Kibuka and all these names. And we're like, I've never seen anything like this on South African television. Because not only did they tell jokes, they told jokes about subjects that had always been taboo, race and politics and then society and culture. And I remember watching this going, what is this? And it wasn't even stand-up, by the way. It was like a sketch show. It was huge. It was called the Pure Munati show. It was huge. I remember thinking, this is, what is this? It's amazing. You fast forward many years. I'm working at a radio station where I just got a job by chance. So I'm working from 3 a.m. to 6 a.m. on the weekends at this time. It's a little regional station. It pays the bills and that's all I need. Still back home? Yeah, in South Africa. Okay. At this time, I was 21 years old, turning 22, somewhere there. And I was just so happy to have a job. I'm so happy that I can pay the bills. This is it. Because before this, I would just hustle. I didn't have qualifications. I couldn't go work. You know, this is the first time where I'm getting a check at the end of every month. I'm in heaven. Genuinely in heaven. It was, today's money is like $200 a month in heaven. Bliss. And I'm living with my cousin and my best friend at the time. And every Tuesday, they leave the house in the evening. They say, we're going to go watch comedy. What are you talking about? How are we going to go watch comedy? I'm like, goodbye. And every week, they go, we're going to go watch comedy. And then one week, they say, come with us. And I said, why? What is this comedy thing? They said, oh, we think you'll like it. It's really funny. And I was like, I don't know. So I go with them. So I'm with Nico and Lou. We go to this comedy club. But it wasn't even a club. It was a restaurant. It was called Horror Cafe. And it was just a motley crew of people who got to take over the worst performing night at a bar slash restaurant and put on a show. And there were 20 odd people there. And I remember comedians would get on stage. All black audience. The completely mixed audience. That's what made it so magical. It was the first time when Indian people are sitting with white people, are sitting with black people, are sitting with colored people, are sitting with Chinese people. People are rubbing shoulders with people who they've existed adjacent to, but never melded with. And now comedians are getting on stage and telling stories and all these things. And this night, and I always tell the comedians, we laugh about this. This night, the comedians were having a terrible night. It was just not going well. The only comedian was doing well was a guy named Trevor Goomby. Very funny, crazy guy. And my cousin and my friend, because they were regulars, they sort of like heckled the comedians. And they were like, this sucks. This sucks. You suck. But they're friends. The guy running it, Gidibonim Laudzi, wonderful guy. He comes up to the table. He goes, hey, guys, guys, guys, you're killing me, man. He says, you know how hard comedy is, man. Don't do this, man. Don't do this. You guys are killing me, eh? Then my cousin's like, yeah, but you guys are terrible. He's like, okay, if it's so easy, why don't you do it? So my cousin goes, well, I'm not funny. But Trevor is. I'm quiet. I'm sober. I go, guys, I have nothing to do with this. Gidibonim looks at me. He's like, oh, you think you're funny, dog? I'm like, I never said anything. He's like, why don't you get on stage and show us? I don't know what's happening right now. I don't want to be part of this. I have no beef with you. I don't even know what's going on. He's like, no, come, let's do it. Get on stage and do the thing. And he's like, what are you doing? And he's like, oh, you're scared. He's like, oh, you're chicken. I knew you're chicken. Now it's I go. He's like, just get on stage and tell a few knock-knock jokes or whatever it is. I get on stage. I remember our friend Mayani was there. And he was high as hell. He used to smoke so much weed, Mayani. And I got on stage. And I was like, I don't know why I'm here. These guys fought with these guys. And now I'm standing on stage. I don't even know what to say. And Mayani shouts from the back of the room. He's like, dog, tell them about you getting your VCR fixed at the Nigerian shop. And I was like, okay. And I just told the story. Well, tell us the story. Do you remember the story? Now all the details, I mean, it was so long ago. But essentially, I would always try and get old electronics fixed and sell them at a profit. And I'd found a store in Hillborough, which is in Johannesburg, where there were Nigerians who would fix things for really cheap. But it was cheap in a suspicious way. I became friends with these guys. Over time, I learned what they were doing was they had created a pyramid scheme of electronics. So what they would do is if Craig brings in a TV, where, you know, like those old TVs, so like the tube, something on the back is blown. That part needs to be replaced. But the rest of the TV is fine. Then Michelle brings in a TV. Everything is fine, except the tube. They go, okay, give Craig that part from Michelle's TV, charge him for the repair. Now we just need to wait for another TV to come in, so we can repair Michelle's TV. And they just shuffled. It's a payday loan. Yeah, they shuffled this thing around constantly. But nobody knew this was happening. So I would be in the shop with them. And it would just be person after person coming in, being like, you said it would be finished last week. And then like a guy, there was this one guy, like one of the brothers, Abedi. And then he's like, he's like, my brother, my brother. He's like, can I ask you something, my brother? He's like, my brother, my brother, do you know how to fix this thing? Do you know how to fix it? And he'd be like, no, I don't know how to fix it. He's like, then how can you tell me how long it is supposed to take? Ah, just ask yourself this question. How can you tell me how long it is supposed to take? Then he's like, no, but you said one week. He's like, ah, the government has also said many things they have not delivered. I'm only a human being. When I opened it, I found it was more damaged than I thought. And because I don't want to charge you more money, I thought I can wait for you to make it cheap. But if you want to take it, you can take it back now. And it's worse now. You can't take it. And the people are like, no, because everyone's there because they can't afford to go get it fixed at a reputable dealer, like a Best Buy type place. No, so it was this world where you were seeing people from all over the continent interacting. And I'm laughing. And these guys are telling me about Nigeria, teaching me the food and the culture. I'm telling them about South Africa. I literally just told these stories. Everyone was dying laughing. Yes, of course. And then at the end of it, I walked off and Kiriboni just said, he's like, I think you're a comedian. He says, just keep coming back. And that was it. That's literally how I got into it. And I just did that every week. I went back. Did you like go and think about stories you wanted to tell? No, I just, I lived life. You just showed up. I lived life. And then my aunt would sit in the back and he'd shout. He'd be like, tell them about it. That's how I'd say the first year and a half of my comedy career was me going to a place with my friends. And they would shout out requests from the back of the room. They were heckling you into your career. Yes. Well, I feel that way sitting here talking to you. Tell the one. What was your response to being arrested, by the way? What? When you were driving Abel's car without. Oh, yeah. And you were, you almost really went to jail. Yes. You were in jail. I wasn't. Yeah. I wasn't. Is it jail? Not prison. Yes. Jail. Yeah. And you thought you could figure that one out. That's some backwards logic there. Well, I mean, my brain would get me into trouble, but then that same brain will be like, all right, how do you, that, that's the problem with an ADHD brain that is undiagnosed and then unstimulated. Is people don't realize And I That's why I love Talking about this Especially to parents Learn that your kid Is not against you That's right Learn that your kid Is not doing this to you Even though it feels Like they are Yeah Understand That their brain In the same way You would treat a child Who needs reading glasses They're not messing with you When they say They can't see the words Yeah You get what I'm saying? Oh yeah So you wouldn't go like Why are you being like this? I cannot see the words I literally don't see them You give them glasses ADHD is so hard To explain to people Because they go It feels like You're just making this up Yeah I get it I completely get it Because your brain Doesn't work this way There you go So you have no idea How it feels To be in this brain Completely And so When I would talk to parents With young kids I go listen Just understand the value Of stimulation Exercise Just getting them up Because the brain Is just doing this thing And then someone will say Why did you do it? And honestly I couldn't answer the question I don't know Why I did it But it was exciting Yeah You know Still when I talk to Extreme athletes You know the guys who do That like Where they fly like a bat I forget what it's called They're They're gliding Yeah something gliding That It's terrifying Those suits Yes I know what you're talking about Those normal suits Yes Almost all of them have ADHD Their brains are calm Yeah When they're flying down A mountain at that speed Because the brain Is so stimulated And so Learning that now I'm grateful that I'm Around And I feel like I have An opportunity And a responsibility To save every other little Trevor And every other Patricia Yeah From worlds that They just don't need To happen I love this time of year But hosting during the holidays Can be a bit of a challenge So Kelly and I Have collected a few hacks To make it a little bit easier One of our favorite moves Is an extension Of an extendable Dining room table It's this great walnut color And it's mid-century modern So it looks awesome In our space And it even has Extra storage in the legs When we don't need The middle panels We just slide them out And our space is back To how it was before For all things hosting Wayfair delivers High quality Customer trusted products For your home So you can host And celebrate Without distress Use filters Customer photos And more than 20 million verified Five star reviews To confidently find The right fit For your home When refreshing your home This holiday season Wayfair delivers Exactly what you need Head to wayfair.com To shop all things home That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com Wayfair Every style Every home I love the way You talked about Your That period of time After college When you and your buddy Had your hustle In Alexandra Which reminds me Of Kibera In Nairobi That same The way you described That area The same vibe The same That was one of the first places When I went back to Kenya To visit Brock's family For the first time Right The The The mechanic For his sister's car That was always broken down Was in Kibera And the way you described All the scents And the sounds And the shanties Just on top of each other And poverty But You know Deep hustle And Talking about What How crime It means something different Definitely In those circumstances But that time in your life Sounded like It stimulated Your ADHD brain A thousand percent You know Because it was something Happening all the time Yeah Can you talk a little bit About that I mean First of all I love I love that I love that these experiences Are universal When they feel so unique I don't know if you've had Like I grew up Genuinely believing That every township I lived in in South Africa Was completely unique And then I would meet Somebody from Like Alabama Or somebody from Compton Or somebody And they would tell me About the hood And I go like Wait That's my house Yeah That's where my grandma lives Right You also had that dude On the corner? That same guy Was at every corner Everywhere in the world Everywhere in the world Was this a franchise? What is going on here? It's like It's amazing how The same sort of ingredients Will create similar outcomes And for me The township As it was called for us The hood in some places The ghetto in some places The slum in some places The favela in some places The Whatever we want to call it It is It's the exact same thing Yeah It's what happens When you put a collection Of people together You Underrepresent them You underprovide for them And Despite everything They create An order from the chaos I even think Often times It undermines A lot of the narratives Around these places Because People will say like Oh the people who live there Are lazy And the people who live there This and the people who live there That And I go And yet They're the people who create Housing out of nothing They will build structures That shouldn't exist They will create roads That don't exist They'll create stores That don't exist People are selling food Out of places That aren't restaurants They are becoming The local Costco For their own community That world was The most stimulating thing Any human could experience Because everything was happening All the time And you were brokering A lot of it Oh I loved it You know I loved it I mean it's just like Finding Solving problems Just like the Nigerian Repairman Everyone needs something You were doing that I loved it More than anything In this world What does Craig need? Craig goes Oh man I'm trying to buy this I don't know where to Alright Craig hold on Hold on I think we know Someone's trying to sell it Someone's trying to get it Someone's trying Someone's trying Someone's trying Someone's trying Someone's trying It's like we It's hustling You're making things Come together That don't necessarily fit But they will And it made you feel Like you had a purpose You know And how did you take Those skills And turn them into A profession? I think some of the skills Transferred But I don't really think I ever turned any of those Into a profession Because I don't get to hustle As much anymore In my life Which I sometimes miss It was I think It was A long and beautiful process Which I enjoyed I just did comedy As many days a week As I could Completely a hobby Didn't know you could Earn any money from it And didn't earn any money from it And then one day There was a gig Where you did earn a little bit money And this is all in South Africa And then one day There's another one And there's another one And then you started working Doing like corporate gigs And you It would just grow over time And then I was really lucky I I decided to record my show And put it out on DVD Which was actually quite rare At the time Comedians used to think It's better to keep All of your material Instead of putting it out Because then it's gone forever And I thought I'll do it I'll put it out And see what happens And then it really blew up It became the top selling DVD In the country And then on the continent Even in countries Where it wasn't for sale Which was always weird for me Like I remember I met A man He was from Pakistan And he told me That he had sold A million and a half copies Of my DVD Wow On the African continent And then I was like I haven't sold A million and a half copies Right And he's like No, no I said I have sold A million and a half copies Of I was like I earned None of this money He's like Yeah, yeah He's like But they love you They love you Trevor Love you everywhere Love you I was like Well Okay, thank you And in a weird way He You know people like that Spread my comedy One thing led to another South Africa Then I go to Namibia Then I go to Zambia Then I go to Not Zimbabwe Went to Botswana Then I went to Zimbabwe I couldn't go Because Robert Mugabe Was present And they said If you go and make jokes You'll get arrested So Zimbabwe was no But it was All the neighboring countries And then one day It was like an email From England Someone said Do you want to come Do comedy in England I was like England, England? Yeah Because in South Africa We also have places Named after England Right So you got to make sure You know Like in America You have New England Right, right That doesn't mean There has nothing to do With England Like we have a place We have a place With Port Elizabeth Yes And England has Like no It's not the same at all Right It was real England Yeah Get on a plane People fly me And Telling jokes there And then it's another place And then it's Australia And at first It was all the enclaves Where South Africans Had Relocated And over time It expanded And it grew It expanded And it grew It expanded And it grew And then one day It was Again Luck I attribute so much Of it to luck There was a comedy festival In South Africa Few American comedians Australian comedians Had come to be On the festival And one of these Comedians Was a lovely Crazy man By the name of Bobby Lee Still in LA actually And Bobby Lee Was on the show And we were doing the show I'd never met him He'd never met me And after A series of shows together He phoned his agent Here in America And he said I just bumped into this kid Named Trevor Noah In South Africa And if you don't sign him You guys are idiots And how old were you At this point in time? At that point I was probably 25 26 maybe Somewhere there Yeah 26 Yeah Somewhere there. - Wow. - And they were like, Like, well, we're going to come see you anyway. We'll see what this is all about. And that literally was how I got connected to an American agent. And then they said, do you want to come to America and do comedy? And then I had met an American guy named David Meyer. And he was doing a thesis on American, it was on South African comedy post-apartheid. I was a comedian doing comedy post-apartheid. We got to know each other. He brought me here, like literally down the road here in LA to the Improv Olympic West. He sent an invite to Complete Strangers on Facebook. He said, I'm putting a show on for a South African comedian who would like to come. It sold out. It was 150 people, but still it sold out. No one knew me. No one knew him. We don't even know how it happened. And then as fate would have it, Mario Joyner, an amazing comedian who was opening for Chris Rock at the time. I'd bumped into him randomly in a club. He saw this and then he said, he was like, would you like me to come and open for you? I was like, you're Mario Joyner. How can you open? And he's like, yeah, but I love you, kid. And Mario came and he opened. And it just became this beautiful collection of magical moments. And I did the show. And then David said to me, man, the people laughed. Americans laughed. Because before that, I was like, I just tell jokes in Africa. He said, no, no, I think you can tell jokes in the world. And he said, just keep coming back. And that's all I did. I just kept coming back, kept coming back. And I'll go on the road, went on the road. And then another piece of luck. I was lucky enough to be doing comedy clubs now. So this is around like 2010 to 2012. I'd be going to every… In comedy, they call them like B clubs. So it's not like the premium club in the town. So in the town, you're like the improv, the laugh factory, the whatever. I was doing like the knickknacks, whatever that's called. Craig's laugh shack. No offense. I get it. It's always like a Craig's laugh shack. It would have been funny, but I get it. And that's where… That's where I would be playing. Yeah, yeah. And it was free. No one paid for those tickets. It was about drinks. Okay. And it was just like, we got this guy from South Africa, y'all. And I'd come on stage. And one day I was doing a show in Irvine. And after the show, one of the managers from the club comes to me. Before I'm about to leave. And he says, hey, Gabriel Iglesias wants to meet you. And I was like, a singer? You talking about the Latin star? He wants to see me? What? And he's like, no, Gabriel Iglesias. The comedian. The comedian, yeah. I was like, he has a son? He's like, no, you think of Enrique. I was like, oh, Enrique. Sorry. Wait, which Iglesias is this? He's like, Gabriel Iglesias, you don't know him? He's a huge comedian in America. He's like, oh. Then I saw his picture. I was like, I know that guy. I've seen him on TV. He's like, yeah, he's here. He wants to see you. I'm like, cool. Gabriel, if you know anything about this guy, people affectionately call him Fluffy. If you've never met him, he's one of the nicest, most professional, successful comedians in the world. Tours everywhere. Does arena. He did Dodger Stadium. He's massive. This man waits for me like I'm somebody and he's nobody. Waits for me to be done. The room's completely empty. Just wanted to meet you. And he goes, hey. He says, I saw you on Leno. I then researched you. He says, I think you're amazing. And I want you to come on the road with me. He says, but. I don't think you're an opening act. I know that where you're from, you're something. So don't be offended. But he said, but I just feel like I could share you with my audience and you would love them and they would love you. Biggest challenge when you were coming up. Like, the story is wonderful, beautiful. And it sounds like a rocket ship straight up. But what was one of, can you talk about a challenge that you dealt with? So I always felt like for me, the biggest challenge was actually, you're in a hotel room. You're by yourself. You go from one place to the next. Nobody knows your name. You go out there. You go out and entertain when people are going out to be entertained. You sleep in a different bed every single night of the week. You spend most of your money traveling and trying to feed yourself and not using all the money that you've got feeding and traveling yourself. So you travel the cheapest way, which is often the longest way. So you spend very little time in the same place, making friends, building community. All you do is rest in between. And then you're back out on the road. When you're out on the road, you're trying to convince people to come to a show. They come to a show. Maybe they do. Maybe they don't. You're at the mercy of the whims, the weather, the people that come out there. And in that, you realize, if you're lucky, how much of life you're missing. It's a lonely experience. It's a lonely, lonely experience. And you're also sort of dining on your pain. Completely. Because we have talked to Cat Williams and so much of what makes comedy, is understanding how to turn your pain and your struggle into something like your mother. Yeah. You know? It's like, let's find the humor in it. And so I would imagine a lot of comics that are good, they've really tapped into the pain. And so now your job is to relive that pain all alone, on the road, with a level of uncertainty, laughing, trying not to cry. Yeah. I think that now, about like the streaming kids, I worry about them a lot. Oh gosh, yeah. Because I love what they're doing. But I see again, a mirror of it. I think to myself, I see somebody like an Aisho Speed, who's done phenomenal things. And I go, I can't imagine what it's like to be somebody like that. With that many followers, those many people screaming your name, that level of non-normal. Yes. It's just abnormal. Everything you do is abnormal. And then when you go home, it is eerily quiet. I mean, eerily quiet. To oscillate between screams and pandemonium and silence. And you don't know anyone. You don't know if you can trust anybody. You don't know who's out to get you, who's not out to get you. To experience that at that age. And you haven't been old enough to even be able to dissect real friendship, real anything, you know. I mean, we're sane after our experience because we were in our 40s and 50s going through it. We had had an opportunity to establish normalcy and to learn how to make friends and to distinguish people and to make some mistakes that had nothing to do with your name, to be anonymous. I mean, my husband says this all the time. You know, the thing he misses most is anonymity. Yeah. Because you can't tell a kid, like, the anonymity, the ability to just sit in the world unobserved is a beautiful, powerful thing. And it's really where life is. Because, you know, how much of a conversation is, we were just sitting in the park and we saw this couple and we started talking about the couple, you know, and we, we, people watched. And our whole interaction came from watching other people. But when you're now the people that are being watched. Always. Yeah. You lose the ability to even have that connection with the world, to see it as a bystander. And young kids, it's like you can't tell them that that's, you don't want to rush to that. Yeah. If you can. I remember talking to your husband about it and it's so funny because I'm fascinated by like him and his life just as a person, you know. And so I asked him once, I go, what do you miss? And he told me the same thing. You know, he goes, Trevor, I'll tell you what I miss. I'll tell you what I miss. Sitting on a bench, you know, just hanging out. You're talking too fast for him. You got to have way more positive. Can I tell you, that was the biggest fight I had with him. Every time he'd come on for an interview, I would say, what speed are you going to speak at? Because I'm going to ask you one question and our time will be up. So I do him at 1.5 speeds to save everybody from the thing he never saved me from. Because if I did it for real, I'd be like, Trevor, what do I miss? That's it. Well, you know. Sometimes I lose track of the answer. I was like, are you still making that point? I thought she'd stop. I wish you were there for the interviews. It would have been amazing. But yeah, the thing we spoke about stuck with me. And then I remember, this was just one of those beautiful, beautiful moments in life. When I was getting my diagnosis for ADHD. Because I didn't want to just do it like on TikTok. Which I think a lot of people do. I'm not knocking it, but be careful. You know, if you go online and be like, do I have this? You do. You basically just do. Be very careful. You may have symptoms. You may just experience things in life that feel like it. It doesn't mean you have ADHD. It doesn't mean you're on the spectrum in the way. And everyone's on the spectrum in some way. So I wanted to make sure that I was getting diagnosed. So I went to a psychiatrist. You, when you go for these psychiatric evaluations, they don't just test you on what you think you have, because that's up to you. So what they try and give you is a broad, broad battery of tests to ascertain what you actually may have. Right? So that you're not just coming in and self-diagnosing. So it's a wild range of tests. There's one section that stuck with me because you get there and it goes, it says, it's like questions about yourself, you know, most likely, least likely, blah, blah, blah. You know, there's multiple choice and it goes, when I walk into a room, I feel like everybody is staring at me. I was like, yeah, I guess, yeah, very likely. And it's like, I feel like people start whispering whenever I'm nearby. I'm like, yeah, very, very likely. I think people talk about me when I'm not in the room anymore. Yeah, very, very likely. And then when I'm reading down, I was like, wait, wait, wait, what is this section? And you go down that list and it's people talk about you. People say things behind your back. People are talking about you when you're not there. People whisper. People look at you. And then when you're not there, you look at them, they look away, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I finally get to the end of it When I'm talking to the psychiatrist I say hey What was that section for? And he says Oh that's where we're testing for psychosis Because one of the things When you're schizophrenic Is you think all of these things You think people are looking at you When they're not And you think when you look at them They look away And it's not everyone Please I'm being broad here But like There can be cases where people think People are whispering about them And people talk about them when they leave And that's where the schizophrenia The paranoia comes in And I said Wait what are you telling me? And he goes Oh yeah that was that section And I said I hope you know It's just Everything you've said here Is what people experience with fame Yes Yeah Yes And he said I've never been told that Yeah Fame is not the best environment For people's sanity Yeah And so to your point I wish success Upon anyone I think it's wonderful And there's many things that come I'll never lie to people And be like Oh no it's been a terrible Hard work That's right It's not a complaint It's just the truth There are many pros Yeah But don't take for granted The opposite side of every mountain Is a valley Please don't Yeah That's right And so that would be The biggest challenge Is I just went Man Trevor just Remember your friends Connect with them Stay with people Even when you're in a room By yourself Just Don't let the loneliness Yeah Consume you Because it can't Can Do you feel like You've been successful At that Yeah I'm really lucky Yeah I'm truly truly lucky How are you feeling About our world Our country These days I'll say something That might be a little bit Controversial Yes No I think your answer Is directly proportional To how much melanin You have in your skin Yeah Yeah So I find generally With my With my white friends They They swing more With the whims Of the country I find Like they I've watched them go from It's the great We're in the best place ever To like I can't believe this Should I move to Canada Should I It's I'm just like What are you doing This is not Do you get what I'm saying Every single one Of my black friends American or otherwise They just have like a Because Whether you grew up In South Africa Whether you grew up In America There is no denying That the place The world And the country You're in Is now Is far further Than it was When you were young Yeah That doesn't mean That everything Has gotten better For everyone And that doesn't mean That new problems Haven't developed Again the nuance But I remember saying To my grandmother I asked her I said hey gran A lot of people Are complaining Saying in South Africa Things were better In the old days People Things were better And she said Which days Kids please Enlighten me She said I can She said I'm talking to my grandson now She says If we were here 30 years ago The police could come In this house right now And take you What was better What was better Yeah She said She said Can I tell you something The problem with freedom Is that you don't appreciate it When you have it She said What was better She said Now the electricity Can cut every now and then But you know what It's my electricity When it comes back It's mine My TV is mine She said Oh people who say It was better Oh they don't remember it And that That thing stuck with me Where we are right now Is For me It's It's really complex Because In many ways The world is better Than it's ever been I mean like Poverty rates You know Infant mortality Medicinal advancements Etc You wouldn't want You wouldn't want to be sick At any other time in history Doesn't matter what the sickness is But If I was drawing it on a chart I feel like As the world got better In many ways We got access to more information Than we've ever had And so it also feels like The world got worse Because now You know And in a good way as well You know about so many more conflicts You know them on a deep level Before it was just the news That told you what was happening And that was that Now you are subject And privy to everything The reason I say it's controversial is I think People take for granted That The moment that you are in Can often seem Like it is the worst moment Because you have just come From a better moment And because you weren't in A moment that was worse Yes It doesn't mean that the moment That you're in is not bad Yeah And that cognitive dissonance Is something that I Constantly play with in my life And I struggle with it And I enjoy it It's the complex nature of life Yeah So I think You know The reason I'm optimistic All the time Even when things are bad I'm skeptical But I'm optimistic Is I go That is when When things like this happen I feel like the younger generation Steps up And they start shaking things In a way that you can't imagine That's right That's when you end up with The Mamdani's In cities where people go But how did Trump voters Vote for Mamdani That's right And it's like Oh if you don't understand Then you don't understand What young people are experiencing Regardless of the politics They've been given Yes I think we're seeing A younger generation Question The legacy that they've been Left with in this moment And I think They're not going to stop shaking But we have to get to Our listener question From Debra in Detroit Hi Michelle and Craig I'm 63 this year I've seen a lot I've done a lot And in my youth I was the kind of person To be in the streets And on the front lines For causes I cared about I've changed my methods In my age But it's disheartening To see my babies And grandchildren Coming up against The same issues I fought back then I can see how much This world gets to them At times As someone who cares About our collective liberation And as an elder Trying to support them I want to know How do we reinforce Hope, joy, and persistence In our youth As they face The harsh realities Of what this world can be And as they continue To fight for a better future And this is Debra Who's 63 in Detroit Well it gets to what you said Do we want to promise them Hope and joy And hope and joy And freedom You know because Sometimes you can get it And sometimes you have to Work for it Sometimes it's not Just handed to you And I think as an elder You do want your kids Not to have to go through What you went through You wish that Like I worked so hard To make sure that it was Better for you Right So I'm learning to be like It's okay if young people Feel discouraged Sometimes It's okay if young people Don't see the trajectory Because that's where The shaking happens So I want to stop Selling our kids on Somebody's got to make you Feel hopeful Because that means you wait For somebody to fix it And I'd rather say While I don't want you To be discouraged and depressed Because you can't stay Stuck in your head So for that reason I try publicly To always be optimistic And I think that's Because you got to set The tone Right I'm with you For them to understand And the context In order to do that You have to have some optimism And I appreciate that About my husband I mean sometimes I tease him It's like oh Mr. Hopeful Enough, enough You know But it's important To be reminded But I also want the elders To stop thinking How can I get my kids here You know I'm 62 My kids are 62 My kids are adults I want them to have their This is your life It's your future I shouldn't be fighting For your hope to the bitter end You got to You got to grab the baton It's your turn now I think to that question The main thing I think of Is perspective Perspective gives you The ability To look at your situation From a different vantage point And it's just the ability To say Where am I Where am I Where are we Where were we And where could we have been And what I mean by that Is like One of the things That always gets stuck In my head is The people who first fought In slavery When they were enslaved They didn't know That slavery would end Like we think of slavery As a foregone conclusion It's like it ran For this amount of time And then it ended Yeah but there were people Who were born into it And died into it And it never ended So in their world It actually ended It actually never got better And someone was like Fight, fight And they're like What is the point I lived my whole life And it never ended Were they wrong to hope Were they right to hope Were they I don't have the answer to that But for me The perspective is Yeah but Thankfully they That class of people That's not being done To people like that anymore It doesn't lessen What happened to them It doesn't But it's like Yeah Hopefully because of them It'll never happen again The perspective is Then we moved Then you move to something else And you're like This is terrible Now people are Marching through the streets Of Selma And you know But that's You go What's the next thing And then you go like Okay It's George Floyd And you're marching again And suffragettes move And you're marching And it's anti-apartheid protests And you're marching And it's All these things You're marching But the perspective I think is one Where you go How are we marching How is our marching Being responded to What Sometimes that That gives me A reason to smile It's because I go like When When When my grandfather was at a protest, what could they do to him? when I go to a protest today what can they do to me right so for me the one side is perspective because without perspective you can constantly feel like you're not moving and then there's no there's no reason to hope the second one to what you're saying sort of putting it in the hands of the right people and actually telling them it's in their hands and then the last one is remembering where the fight lies and what I mean by that is I just think sometimes we're all thinking too big it's cliche but if you look at a mountain it's impossible it's like you forget that it's all just these little steps and pebbles combined you know and that's what I think of for myself in life for any issue for any ideas like where's the small part of it just that just start with the small part of it change your school change the world I love that it's a great question thank you well we've only scratched the surface here my friend we'd love to have you back I would be honored anytime I'm very gettable as I said now we know very very good it's just timing it's just timing this has been a blessing thank you both yeah and you're going on tour you're getting you're hitting the road though or are you? I like it no the latter I like more I'm on the road but I'm not on tour okay so tour for me is a a show that I've designed that's going to go from one place to the next but on the road is me traveling learning places so now I'm going to go to I'll be in Hong Kong I'll be back in the Middle East I'll be in parts of Asia yeah Kuala Lumpur for the first time Hong Kong for the first time is that your are you working workshop and stuff for a tour or this is just I'm going to get to learn just go to learn I want to go to a place meet new people eat new food learn new things and then what I love is I create comedy in every place that I'm in so one of the things I've always wanted to do which finally now I can is I'll take people on like a world tour of how I do it and show you how I make a show everywhere in the world I'll probably just put it on YouTube oh that'll work it's fun it's fun that you can just yeah it's like a really cool the world has given me so much yeah you know so it's like let me show you why I love the Netherlands so much let me show you why I love Singapore so much let me show you what I learned in Dubai and Australia and let me show you what I do you get what I'm saying yeah yeah so I'm really enjoying this who gets to go with you on this all the friends I want to come all the friends that's so cool group chat poll you vote who's coming with what are we doing where are we going oh that's so good yeah I don't have an entourage I have friends yeah yeah well that's clear by the way you showed up here just walking in on your own I wish you luck thank you very much give your your mother a big hug oh I will do thank you so much thank you everyone thanks for having me I'll see you guys next time bye bye bye bye and at average risk it's time to screen for colon cancer even if you feel perfectly healthy and Cologuard Plus gives you an option you can use right at home talk to your health care provider about screening for colon cancer with Cologuard or request it online today at Cologuard.com where they have an easy telehealth option don't wait Cologuard products are intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer do not use if you have had a personal history of colorectal cancer or polyps have inflammatory bowel disease a family history of colorectal cancer or certain hereditary syndromes or a positive result from another colon cancer screening method within that test recommended screening interval Cologuard results should be interpreted with caution as false positives and false negatives do occur available by prescription only