Debunking the Myths of the Data Center Water Footprint

10 inches, that is 10 inches of snow, is what it takes to make one inch of water. And this year, Colorado snowpack is sitting at roughly 52% of the normal. That's not just a ski season problem, it's a structural shortfall. Crossing American West, snowpack is the first reservoir and the first signal of what's to come later in the year. A week winner becomes summer drought, wildfire risk, and tighter allocations on water supplies months later. This deficit doesn't stay in the mountains, moves downstream through the water markets, power grids, and ultimately municipal budgets. Snow is infrastructure and this year it's underfilled. I'm Ristinthal. This is Future Water, which we talk about all the ways which companies, utilities, and people are addressing the challenges and opportunities in water. This is episode 137 and I have a pretty good feeling it's going to be a good one. That's because I'm going to speak with Bluefield Research Director Amber Walsh about the broader water footprint of data centers, not just on site but also off site, including the power grid or the power network as well as we'll talk a little bit about semiconductors too. Essentially the question is why is everybody so concerned or should they be? But before we get to Amber you're going to have to bear with me just a little bit longer. Something caught my eye this past week. Well, what caught my eye this past week is the continued rise of bottled water and what it signals for the water sector. The bottled water sector or industry has become a significant economic force. Globally the market is valued at about $340 billion in 2026 and is projected to surpass 500 billion by the 2030s. In the US alone retail sales hit about 50 billion in 2024 with a water now firmly established as the top packaged beverage by volume. That shift was in why I'm talking about it because it was on full display during the Super Bowl when liquid death made its national big game debut. Bottled in canned water is no longer just what seems like a utility product. It's a lifestyle brand and you know what that means. It's competing for the same cultural headspace and consumer dollars as soda energy drinks. And what seems like if you talk to beer distributors and distilleries, even alcohol, which has another water impact as well. But why do I think about this? First, it's the bigger question is it's a question of public trust and that's really the first concern that I would have when anybody asked me about bottled water. Bottled water marketing frequently means or what is it? It leans into themes of purity, clean and safe. Even when it's subtle that messaging can reinforce a perception that tap water is somehow inferior and even crazier. It's been reported that approximately 64% of bottled water in the US comes from municipal sources. Hmm, go figure. It's smart here. Second, infrastructure financing risk. If higher income households, why I'm picking on higher income households because I can because if they increasingly opt out of drinking tap water, they may feel less invested in the public system, particularly when rate increases or bond measures come up for vote, they're going to be the ones who are raising cane. And that creates a potential despot or dynamic. So declining political support from those most able to pay while fixed infrastructure costs continue to rise. We talked a lot about that at Bluefield. And then third, resource sustainability tensions. In some regions, large-scale groundwater extraction for bottling operations competes directly with municipal supplies. Go talk to Perry A, which I don't know if they're still in business. They were having troubles for a number of different reasons. And I would also add bottled water, those suppliers, they're not immune from PFAS and other contaminants that people say are just in tap water. That being said, for utilities to take ways clear, they are competing on trust transparency and performance and against marketing machines that quite honestly, I'm not sure they should, they're able to or even they should compete against. This is something to think about. So next time, next super bowl when you're watching, and liquid death comes up again, who's raised hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars. I think about what it means for the broader water sector. So with that being said, let's get to Amber Walsh and talk a little bit about data centers and power and what all of that means and what the footprint is. All right, so I'm joined here by Amber Walsh. Amber, it's been a minute. So I guess for everybody who they've heard you on the podcast before. We've in fact talked about data centers before the hottest topic in the world. It seems like whether it's data centers, whether it's AI or all of the above. So what's going on? How you been? I've been good. Just coming back from the Patriots. Super bowl appearance. Appearance is a nice way to put it, but a little bit painful. But I was boastful, I think, on my last podcast episode and now pay the price and eat the crow. But all right, so let's talk a little bit about data centers now that I've got you pinned down for a minute. So we've just released a report. I think it actually just posted yesterday. And it's looking at the impact of data centers on the power sector, but more specific to Bluefield and what we do is what does that mean for the water footprint or impact of data centers off site. So let's just talk about this. I guess if it is there been a fundamental shift in where water risk is actually sits for data centers. So is the AI data driven data center boom? Is it redefining water risk? What's the from menace pooling to power generation? Where is that risk? And what does it look like if you map it out? Definitely. That's a great question. So we see a lot in the news that these big AI data centers are coming and taking all the community water. What we're actually seeing is these large scale AI data centers. They have advanced cooling systems. So they're they're using liquid cooling. It's more efficient than your traditional cooling methods. The heat rejection systems at these facilities, they can use dry cooling, some use a hybrid approach so they're still water going on there. But the key takeaway really is that at many of these new sites, the water intensities actually shrinking. But something that now we're we're definitely paying much more attention to is that the power demand to not only power the cooling systems, but also the crazy compute demands that these facilities are requiring. That power generation is what the water risk really stands at. And just to kind of put in perspective, how much this data center boom is really impacting the power gen market, the data center industry accounted for approximately four to five percent of electricity demand in 2023, 2024. This was even up from one to two percent of a decade ago. And that's projected to jump to nearly nine percent just by the end of the decade. So we're really seeing significant growth there. So all right. So fundamentally data centers are becoming more the new build or more water efficient, right? And so that's what we're seeing there. That's where a lot of the pushback is fairly or unfairly. It sounds like it might be a little bit unfair because really the water demand from what you're telling me is elsewhere. So what does this mean for water when you look at it as far as total volume? So the power sectors by far the largest withdrawal of water when we look at industrial. So the water needed to generate the electricity it's significant and it definitely can't be overlooked. So in 2024, the power sector withdrew 45, 46 trillion gallons of water. So that's a lot of water, especially compared to other industries. They consume approximately two to three percent of that. And then just to put this in context of why it matters for data centers. So our exercise that we did was look at the water footprint. So how does on-site water consumption at the data center compared to the offsite. And if you look at the upstream, so the power, that's required to power these facilities, that adds 72 percent on the water footprint. So that's the water just consumed by the power plants needed for for data center operation. So the, I mean, that and that's your last word or last comment about consume. There's a big difference between consumed and withdrawals, right? I think that's the issue when we talk about the power sector. That's a key differentiator, correct? Definitely. So we looked at consumption in relation to data centers because we didn't feel it was fair. Some of these open cooling systems at the power plants, they take that water once through and then they discharge it. And that doesn't have a huge impact because yes, they're putting it it back up potentially like a higher temperature, but it's still going great. back to the watershed. So we look specifically at the water consumption piece of it, which if you look at the withdrawals, it definitely boosts that piece significantly. All right. So data center water demand is going down over it will go down over time because of just efficiencies and switching to different solutions and technology. So in all fairness to big tech, these data center companies and all the, you know, the REITs, the real estate investment trust that own a lot of these facilities. They're focused on it. They're working towards it. Changing over the existing fleet is a little bit tougher, right? And I think they're being the industry in some respects is being held accountable for past inefficiencies. Am I correct in saying that? Yes. So a metric that's thrown around a lot at the data center is WUE. So that's the water intensity essentially of the cooling. And that has dramatically decreased over the past couple years. And when we put in perspective of growth, so we are still seeing on site consumption expected to increase through the end of the decade slower than it did in the past 10 years because of those efficiency gains, but just because of all the new builds coming online, there still is an uptick. But the really interesting point is the power piece. So that indirect water consumption is going to grow a lot faster attributed to data centers. All right. So that makes sense. So and that's probably where the industry is being held somewhat accountable. Just the volume of water being used is increasing. But I'll know if you want to put it on a per unit basis, it's becoming more efficient at the data center. Sorry. So let's change gears to the power sector, right? Or switch. The power sector in and of itself has become more efficient over time, right? I think we've got the data we've looked whether it be through EIA and other sources. And we're seeing just water demand, water withdrawals going down or in the power sector. But that trend now looks to be changing which I think we would argue is partly attributed to data centers and AI. So our data centers actually triggering this reversal or is it something else? Yeah. So data centers are definitely a large part of this. There's a couple other factors that are going into play on boosting power demand. But data centers AI, it's a huge piece of it. And we actually as part of this research forecasted water, the power water demand, what it would look like if historical trends continued versus what that data center disruption would be. And it's really interesting. So our finding show that coal power plants, they're being delayed, that has a water related impact. There's new natural gas plants coming online. That has a big water impact. And then we're also seeing the recommissioning of large scale nuclear, one of the most water intensive power generation types. So we actually are expected to see a boost of about 1.5% of the power sector water withdrawal through the end of the decade. Put that in compound annual growth rate. It's about half a percent. So it's still not a lot of growth. But if you look at historic, the compound annual growth rate, I believe for the past 10 years was like negative 3%. So it's definitely a reversal of this trend. And so we're expected to see an actual uptick in that water, water demand as it has been going down for quite some time now. Yeah, I think, and I think the other part to consider is just the volumes of water, as you mentioned, is already so high. It swits from negative 0.3 or negative 3% to 1.5 positive. It's pretty significant. It's a big shift in a large industry or a large heavily intensive water industry. So that's right way to put it. All right. So meeting this AI demand, it's forcing at the same time utilities rethink the power utilities rethink their generation mix. So which fuel pathway, natural gas, nuclear or continuing coal without deferments creates the most material water exposure? I think you may have already dressed that somewhat. Is there anything else to add there? Yeah, that's a great question. So I feel like you could argue that each of the three pose its own water exposures and risks. So keeping these coal power plants online, you have significant water quality risks that come up. It's expensive. You're nuclear power plants. You have risks with reactors, but then like I mentioned, it is one of the largest water users on a gallons per kilowatt hour basis. So that's something that you definitely need to take into account as well. But then I think if I were to answer this with my opinion, it would be the new natural gas power plants. So it's just the sheer volume of new announcements in relation to data centers. It is quite staggering. So there's about 250 natural gas power plants in the pipeline according to government sources, but nine or 10 of those are specifically tied to data centers. And this isn't just a gigawatt or whatnot there. The total of it is very significant. And with that, it's a significant water requirement. So it's set to require these new, just these nine to 10 data center related natural gas power plants are set to require over 80 billion gallons of water a year. So it's a really significant footprint. We're seeing them deployed in in key states like Texas, Virginia, in Pennsylvania. Yeah. So and I know there have been announcements. I mean, do any example companies come into mind on the power side just to give the listener some perspective about, you know, what power utilities are thinking for sure. So Duke Energy comes to mind late last year, they announced more coal power plant delays. So that has its own water quality risks to keep their the plants online. They've already had significant water related violations in places like North Carolina in the past and they're spending millions of dollars at cleanup efforts. But then they also announced recently that they're upping their capital investments 18% since just last November. So for their next five years, they're going to spend over a hundred billion dollars. So that's that significant and a big chunk of that is for natural gas. Yeah, it'll be interesting. I mean, there's that's the 64 million dollar question. As far as, you know, because I think they're playing a little bit of a game too, right? They're trying to figure out how much of this data center build out is real. They're obviously getting their requests for the power demand. And how much of it is driven by pure, you know, developers or development versus actuality. And then there are arguments on the other side of the equation and say, actually the power sector, you know, with transmission investments and such, there can be, it can be more efficient in how it is used. And, you know, deferring coal plants, I don't necessarily is also arguable. It's has been argued that it's also not the cheapest power out there at this point. They're better alternatives. So I don't know, a lot of people are going a lot of different ways and it's not entirely clear. And it feels like there's a bit of a game of chicken happening when you look at the big tech versus power. Then you roll in the transmission. And I think to your point about all of the demand for the backlog for or natural gas. And I brought this up. I think even with you on this podcast and that is if you don't have your turbines ordered, you're still looking at six to seven years until they're ready. So, you know, it's a long, it's a long horizon or it's pretty far out there as far as anything that's announced today. So well, what's the difference? We look at this because one of the, and I was actually looking at it just yesterday for something else. And we do look at different geographies and how data centers and the power mix, how they're different by geography or are we concentrating data center expansion in certain regions? Is it really, are they going where the power is cheap? But are they thinking, what do they think about when it comes to the water footprint? What does that mean long term? Great question. And in just a plug the report a bit, we did rank all 50 states looking at what's their power and water attractiveness and we profiled the top 10. So when this question, what immediately came to mind was Texas and Arizona. So, powers relatively cheap. There's land availability, but there's also serious concerns and growing concerns about water stress. And we're seeing innovative strategies of how policy makers and local utilities are looking at this. And something we've looked at on the refinery side of it recently is Corpus Christi. So, stage 3 drought, it's their dates in in the next year where they're thinking their water supply or part of their water supply is going to run down below threshold levels. So this is pushing to look at alternative water supplies. So they looked at a large scale diesel plant, which the cost ballooned like crazy. So they decided that wasn't feasible. And now they're looking to long-term water reuse contracts to supply these refineries. Turning back to data centers on the onsite point of it, they're using closed loop systems increasingly. They're using non-potable reclaimed water. So that's how they're addressing that. But then we're also seeing innovation happen on the power front. They're also an uptick in closed loop cooling system. So instead of just out once through cooling, more efficient systems, different water reuse onsite. But then also there's some examples like Arizona has a nuclear power plant that uses muni wastewater for cooling. So yes, they are, the bottom line is they're going where power is cheap and available and reliable. And then water is kind of the second concern. They're looking how can they supply their water onsite that they need? They're not even really thinking I would think that much about the power water question. And then another question that comes to mind is, is the build out of the data centers and the new power sources happening too quick for the water infrastructure to keep pace? So expanding reuse pipelines takes time. So is that able to keep up with the pace of the new builds of power and data centers? Yeah, I think so it's really interesting you say this because if they're going where the power is cheap, right? So I think, you know, place like Tennessee, whose in Tennessee is that XAI or whatever they call it? That they're going to Tennessee, Tennessee Valley Authority, going to Texas, there's plenty of natural gas. And, you know, and I know our colleague Ethan Edwards who was at, was at Nehruk this earlier this week and with utility commissioners and such. And they were talking about what is the, where's the pushback on data centers or what is being used if that's the right way to put it? And, you know, if you had to rank them, the number one thing that the utility commissioners are bringing up was water, was water use, right? That was the lever that the public is using, fair or not fair, right? Whereas that's not even, that's for the, for the data center developers, that's, I don't want to say an afterthought, that's not necessarily entirely fair. But it's, it's a lower priority than, than the power side of the equation. So I thought that was interesting. I'm going to kind of throw one out to you and see what you think, because you're talking a little bit about Texas and we're hearing about some big data center buildouts. Texas, particularly West Texas, in our colleagues, Sophie Washington is big into, produced water fraudraulic fracturing. How real is it? Is, is, is there potential for using produced water or other, say, water byproducts from other industries reclaimed, produced or processed water for data centers? Is that, how real is that? I feel like it's still early stages looking at feasibility. Something that we have seen with data center companies is they have a lot of capital. So they are investing in different startups and in different companies. Like we've talked on this podcast a couple of times about FITO, tech and like leak detection. And so they're investing in different, different softwares and hardwares to improve water efficiency. So if it makes sense, it is a bit more risky because of just the quality level of that water. And you still, if you're going to run up through your cooling system, you don't want it to corrode your pipes and have scaling happen and not these things. So I think time will tell on this one, there is some interest in some early adoption, but definitely some hesitancy on that one. Yeah, I guess my, and I'm just curious to see what you think, because my thoughts are, is a very site specific, right? And that being said, there's plenty of produced water that comes out of the Marcellus shale or the Appalachia base and then West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio region. And it's close, that's close to the epicenter of it all, loud and county, if that is, in fact, the epicenter of data center build on West Texas feels a bit more remote, maybe easier to build transmission out there, just because Texas is open for business as they say. I don't know. I'm trying to kind of get, you know, I think on paper, it makes sense, right? We should be doing things like that, leveraging byproducts and being just as we started off, being more efficient in our water usage, water supplies. But I'm not sure how long term that plays. So as you said, early stages. All right, well, for client sake, you know, we've been talking about the market more broadly and what's happening, what's driving it, what's shaping it. When we look at the market opportunities, how should we think about these opportunities going forward? You know, on site, the data center, off site at the power plant, should they be talking to the municipalities, or there are other things, which are position on that. So there's multiple different touch points where the its opportunities are occurring. So you mentioned at the data center, there's definitely a hardware play there with pipes, pumps, valves that you need for the cooling system. There's also a treatment that's needed, whether it's an RO system, UV disinfection, filtration. So there's opportunities at the data center. Big opportunity. And I would say one of the biggest is at the utility. So a data center comes to town, and there's a lot of money being invested in the utility to upgrade its treatment system, expand capacities, build out its reuse system, deploy leak detections, like I've mentioned, to meet some of their sustainability efforts with water use offsets. So we see millions and millions of dollars going to the utility. And that's definitely an opportunity that water solution provider could capitalize on. Engineering firms are definitely capitalizing on. And then much to this report, it touches on the power plant. And an opportunity we see is on the water supply side. So these plants require a lot of water, especially if they're building in areas that don't have a large water body or have water supply concerns, are they going to go to reuse? I know essential utilities they invested over 20 million in a water treatment plant. And that's to supply the data center and the power gen facility. So there is also that treatment play because especially for doing these closed loop systems, you need improved water quality. Coal power plants being kept online. You have remediation opportunities that exist. And you have to keep these plants in compliance. And then one last point, there's a-- I think the key takeaways, there's a lot of opportunities. But also we're seeing at the semiconductor level. So the US had this big boost in domestic manufacturing, part of the CHIP sac. And now we're having this increased demand for advanced CHIPs as part of data centers. There's a big opportunity there for ultra-peer water, your supply and treatment, and also water recovery facilities. So there's that hardware play, equipment play, and also a service play. Yeah, it's like a daisy chain. It's all connected in one way or another. And so I'm going to see if I can sort of summarize this. So at the municipality, I think utilities, they need help from more likely engineering firms that they're already working with, in some cases, to figure out, do they need more capacity? Do they need to build that out? Should they implement reuse? What else can they do? So I think the other thing you mentioned, phyto-tech. And there are other companies that do it too. But I think more broadly speaking, in the US, leakage rates are what, 50%, 16%, 17%. I don't remember what our latest number was from our report. But you get non-revenue water levels or water losses at about 17%. And I think the total of that is about $6.2 billion that will go down the drain or lost every year in the US based on our market sizing. So those are real dollars, right? And if you go down to the low utility, if they can address leakage, that may help solve part of the problem for adding data center capacity or demand to their network. So that's the muni side. Like you said, there's cooling, there's monitoring, and so forth. And the chemical treatment, RO systems. And some of this is being deployed by companies like Ecolab, for instance. I think we brought them up before. They're a good example of a company that is really targeting this market. And I think their public violence, their 10Ks, 10Qs, showed that they're actually doing really well in this. Then the power of the system. And I think it's interesting because it wasn't that long ago where we were-- were looking at the power sector and saying, wow, all right, water demand is going down. There is this transition towards renewables, which doesn't use a lot of water. I think that's pretty obvious. We're seeing that in Europe significantly. I think there's a real transition there for a number of reasons. But the power sector was becoming, I don't want to say less attractive to the water sector. You know, I think the players that are in it, they know what they're doing. They have their relationships. But now it's almost been upended to some extent, right? Now it's, you know, power demand is climbing. There's new fossil fuel capacity going online or being planned for. So that's changing. And then I appreciate your last point, sort of the supply chain, right? I feel like the data center boom over the past, let's say 12, 18 months. It's almost superseded the ramp up or the interest in semiconductors, right? And I think that's because I feel like that is a bit less frenetic. These are large, you know, gold-plated facilities that are happening, you know, multi-billion-dollar facilities, men, wastewater treatment plants. So these facilities are a billion dollars. So like I said, they've been overshadowed by what's happening there. But nonetheless, an opportunity. So super interesting. One last question for you. And this is the 64, this is the real 64-million dollar question for those who are old enough to know what a 64-million dollar question is. Did data centers use a lot of water? That is a great question. And I, every time I get asked this, I'm like, it depends. But so if you talk about the, only the on-site water use, the short answer is no. Like in comparison with other industries like power gin, oil and gas, extraction, food manufacturing, even paper mills, like no as a whole, it doesn't use as much water as they do. However, you can build out their water footprint a bit. So if you take into account the indirect water use, you boost it by 72% of their water footprint. So that grows significantly. But something, and I think this is why I get so much media attention, is a single data center can use a lot of water in a community. So compared to other facilities, like just a regular commercial building. So some data centers use a lot of water, some don't. We have our zero water consumption data centers. Data centers can rely on outside air for most of their cooling. But then you do have these larger scale cloud hyperscalers. And they use evaporative cooling and they burn through water. So one of Google's data centers out in Iowa, they use like 1.4 billion gallons of water in 2024. So that's really significant. Digital reality in Arizona, they have a big data center. They're a top water user. I believe they spend a quarter of a million dollars last year on their water supply bill. But then you put this into account in Chandler on what's Intel spending on their water bill. It's like 6.4 million. So they're definitely using a lot less water than Intel. But it's still a top water user and insignificant for the community and for planning purposes. All right. So it depends, it depends on the community. What share of the water pie does it take? Because I think the flip side of this, and this is what could be argued is, this is great for municipal utilities. It gives them a long term supply contract to one good question. But I'll just say it, a reliable demand for their product, which is treated water. So it could be good for a community, right? I've talked to a number of different people who are arguing, yeah, this is great. Water is being held up as the boogie man. But it's actually not, in fact, the case. And I'm not here to advocate one way or the other. I think what we're trying to do is kind of tell the full story about, all right. On site, no, not really you can account for power. And if you're in the middle of Utah or Nevada, and there's not a lot of water available or their questions about the long term availability of water. Because I think that this is number put my cynical hat on. Is these data centers or just industry as a whole, their life cycle or their, their planning for planning purposes is not as long as that of the community itself. So let's talk about Arizona, right? You mentioned them earlier. And so Arizona now, if you're putting in a facility or a community, you've got to have 100 year water supply. One, I would argue 100 years is not that long. I mean, I've lived more than half of that in my lifetime. So it's not that long. That's one aspect of it. The other is the industry or the data center. I think they're, they're only planning 10 to 20 years, let's say. And so they're going to do whatever they want for 20 years. They don't care about the remaining 80, right? I think that's not in their best interest. Their best interest is in that of the shareholders and whoever their investors are, not the community. And I think this is happening so fast that I don't think the communities know what to do. And I think that's the resistance. It's probably less about, they're not kind of sticking their, you know, nose up at a revenue opportunity. I think they're thinking long term because there are concerns not just about the Colorado River. I think there are concerns about groundwater availability, depending on where you are as well. And off base here. No, not at all. I've even as part of this report and just ongoing research. We talk to data center companies a lot. And one of the, the questions I had is cooling tech is evolving so quickly. Like just a couple of years ago, liquid cooling really wasn't that high adopted. And now it's like going to be the go to for these AI applications. So I was, I asked like, is it worth it for a big tech company to deploy these millions of dollars to upgrade the municipal water system to meet capacity if maybe in five, 10 years, they upgrade their cooling system and they no longer need this water supply. They'll need it for fire suppression and stuff like that. But they said, yeah, it makes sense financially for now. So it's, it's worth it for these utilities to capitalize on this, this money that's coming there with. Yeah, I know because it's a race, right? I mean, that's, it's an arms race. And that's where we are. So I think it's super interesting and that's why I think everybody on all fronts is nervous and, you know, kind of walking on eggshells because they don't know and they don't want to make the wrong decision. And honestly, that's why I mean, as you mentioned, you know, one opportunity is at the municipal utility. I think what are our numbers showed that is a 95% of data center water supply comes from municipal utilities? Yeah, 95 to 97%. Yeah. So it's pretty significant. So that's why there is an opportunity there. There are 50,000 drinking water systems in the US. And so that's an opportunity. And I would say for, for program managers and engineering from should I say, because these utilities are under resource. They're still trying to figure out their basic business. Like I mentioned, non-revenue water, let alone, you know, a new, you know, giant data center, hyper scale data center, come to their community. They want to provide some near term jobs. So all right. Anything else to add before I say for you for the long weekend? I think that's all I appreciate you having me on. All right. Well, thanks, Amber. Thanks, Amin for this. Lots of really interesting research. I know this is off your plate. We went through a planning discussion at Air too. Your plate is fully loaded. So I'm not going to ask you, but you're working on good. It seems like a bottomless pit of research that you have to do. But thanks for taking the time. Thanks for coming in early and have a great president's day weekend. Thank you. Cheers. All right. That's a conversation I've had with Amber and feels like a million times over the past couple of months, maybe even over the past couple of years because we talk a lot about data centers. It is the topic to your in the US. I think it actually comes up in Europe as well. Although the energy and power discussion is definitely different in Europe partly because energy prices are so much higher. They're five times higher than what they are in the US. They don't have the supplies. They are transitioning towards renewables, the significant share of the power footprint being renewables. So it's a different equation there. And there is more top down policy influencing development as happens in Europe. In the US, it's Katie Bar the door, whatever happens happens. And that's where it goes. So thanks to Amber for jumping on. I think it's an interesting topic. And if anybody has any questions about it, she is a good two person, a blue field research when it comes to data centers. For a sign off, I want to recognize a team that makes these conversations possible. Mike Gailer, Ryan Sullivan, Kelly Talbot, Steph Aldock, without them, this podcast. and all the others, 136 more of them wouldn't happen. They wouldn't even get off my desk. If you're in Boston, Barcelona, and New York, Chicago, San Francisco, or Paris, reach out. We love to connect in person. It makes life easy for us and hopefully interesting for you. If you have ideas for topics, you want us to tackle, be on the lookout for some messages from me. I've got a couple ideas that I'm cooking up that is going to get right at your question. So, but in the near term, reach out to us at WaterExpress at BlueFieldResearch.com, because this podcast is for you. This podcast, these water industry insights, brought to you by BlueField Research, learn more about us. We are at BlueFieldResearch.com. That's where you can also learn more about Amber's recent research on data centers and the power sector. Till next time, be well, be safe, and take care. [MUSIC PLAYING]