Deborah Ann Woll's Tales From Woodcreek is Like a TTRPG Escape Room

Greetings adventurers and welcome back to Quest and Answers the show where we talk to all manner of awesome people from around the gaming world I'm Dan Casey and today we have a very special guest joining us You may have seen her on such shows as Daredevil born again heard her molif Lewis tones and games like God of War Ragnarok And even seen her right here on this channel on relics and rarities her innovative actual play series tales from Wood Creek Is available now to back on Kickstarter for season two. Please welcome Debra and wall Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much for being here. We're stoked to have you back So thank you. Debra, we talk a lot about tabletop role-playing games in particular on this show And I'll always like my history major. I like to go back to the beginning So I'm curious for you. What is your earliest memory of either a tabletop or board game that made you maybe Think about that in a different way. Think about the act of playing a different way. Wow I think You know what the the very first game I played because I came to it as an adult I wanted to play as a kid, but I never had an opportunity and so my Manager at the time had been playing his entire life and he offered to run a game for me and my friends And that was really my first experience with the game So a few sessions in I think we had like baby dragons that were stolen or something like that So we were going on a quest to try to like get back our baby dragons and we were in an arena and clearly They were going to be trained to do some sort of like gladdied or fighting with each other So we were like, oh my god, we have to save them and we came up with this elaborate plan of a heist of how we were Gonna sneak in and get them and bring them back out and we started it and My friend Mary just like jumped into the arena was like no And like the plan was totally out the window and we had to just like Improvise and figure out how we were gonna go forward and I think that was the first time I realized like Oh, right like this is completely unpredictable and at any time If your character would do a thing legitimately and you're not just trying to like mess with the game like do that and I yeah, so at that time like we weren't mad at her at all. We were just like that's crazy and like you just like dive into that being the story now You know, uh, yeah, that really opened it up for me Exactly that feeling of no longer being on rails of just like hey We're raptors testing the fences and oh, I guess we could let your kid ourselves and we touched this one That's incredibly liberating and cool. Yeah, I love about ttrbg's last time you were you were here really at the center of something You were behind the DM screen for relics and rarities. So I'm curious for you Just coming back here to talk about this next evolution of what you're doing in tabletop feel like full circle in any way or did Did relics inform how you approached? Tales from wood creek a hundred percent and informed right? I think relics was like that was the very first actual play that I ever made and You know my thinking was always you know, there's so many great actual place out there right like You know, what do I bring to the table that is unique or different or evolves the actual play in some way and to me That's always been puzzles and props and locations right like wanting this to feel immersive I love theater of the mind. I'm a big supporter of that. I very rarely use like big terrain settings or things But I do like to say like what are the things that bring us into the present that make us feel like We're in the jungle and it's all around us, right rather than we're looking down on it or looking at it from afar And so for me that's tactile stuff that is like holding something in my hand makes me feel like I am my character You know looking over there and seeing a tree either in my imagination or for real makes me feel like I'm in this place And so relics was kind of my first try at that so we were gonna have real physical puzzles Real physical props that people could put their hands on we were gonna create a set that was very immersive and very Inspiring of the the location we were in and I think when I met my my writing partner at Gastonnelly And we were thinking about doing a D&D show. He was like, well, what can we do? How do we? push that like if we had every You know resource and all the money in the world like what would we make and we were basically like we would play D&D in an Extraordinary place and have everything be physical and basically have it be a big larp and So Wood Creek was our first stab at that so it was like then evolution from relics to like, you know, if we really Made our dreams come true. What could we do with our resources and now we're hoping to do a season two in which case We'd like to evolve that even further and therefore we need some help and support to do that That's awesome It to me this feels like the natural evolution of like okay You don't necessarily play with big terrain until you make the terrain literally all around Right entire immersive set. Well, it was funny. I was talking with some friends We had some epic battle at a home game or something like that We were like, oh my god. Could we like get like like Barbie dolls and like dress them up and then like Maybe we could do like a stop motion animation thing We're like, oh, but that's really hard and time consuming and I was like or we could just get pressed up and go to the park and hit each other with Boom source, and I was like that's how close we all are to larping right like yeah, because you you want to Relive these experiences and so I was like well, what if the first time around was that big and that immersive and that involved and say I think we're we're kind of Trying trying to make it feel like a giant spontaneous improvised larping That's that's awesome Was there as you're heading into season two? Is there anything you wanted to do either maybe back with either relics or season one of wood Creek either physically or theatrical or mechanically that maybe wasn't possible or just format or budget didn't allow for? So special effects, right? I think the idea of smoke or lighting or Using projection techniques or things like that that kind of allow us to create a spooky immersive atmosphere Is really like one of the next steps up that I think we really are excited about is so much of the inspiration for season two is coming off of the old say ounces from the 20s and 30s and some of the tricks the parlor tricks that those Con-artist really would use to fool people and they're they're ingenious. They are practical They are tactile these things and yet they are absolute magic and so you know We're looking at some close-up magic. We're looking at some of those kinds of practical effects as a way to level up a little bit What's something that I guess either as a designer or sort of GM running the game what's something you learn from actually putting players sort of inside this world inside this physical space that you Probably could not have anticipated on paper. This is a little a little taboo to say about RPGs But I've said it many times before I Love players just as much if not more than their characters and I get it characters are amazing and so much of this game is about receding and syncing into that character, but I think as an actor One of the things that's important to me is that you should never erase yourself, right? Debra is always present in a character that I'm playing because I'm the artist, right? I'm the point of view. I'm the perspective and I think I bring that same idea to D&D characters, which is that this is just more this is just added on top of who you are Bringing yourself to this game and this table is part of why I love art and storytelling and so When I have players literally in and like a Two like a 250-year-old building and there's real noises going off and real puzzles and you see the light in their eyes like there's 12 years old again and and playing with their friends and that delight Sometimes character receives a little bit, but I don't mind because they get it back You know, it comes right back in it becomes this seamless flow and I think I think I really learned by doing Relics and then would creak how much I love players and how much I love human beings and watching people be delighted That's really what we're chasing. Yeah. I mean for me It's always like the joy I get from playing RPG is sitting down to the table and just surprising each other with the story You're telling together in real time and I imagine that's magnified like tenfold when you're walking into that physical space And you're like what do you mean this entire mansion is the world we're gonna be in? We get to play. Yeah, what's on the twos like if you've ever DMed you know that delight of like I made something for you guys You know with a surprise party right like sometimes planning the surprise party and then watching people experience it is As much fun as being the person who was surprised and and so I think Ed and I are just of really We're just really leaning into the joy of like we made so much stuff for you. We hope you find 50% I was gonna ask about that because as anyone as GM knows so much of what you do Never escapes the fog of war because a player maybe doesn't go in there They blow up the building anything can happen. Yeah, so how do you account for that in terms of Repping and planning when you're designing something like this so so much of it is just being flexible as a DM Right like I'm a big believer in like Clues and items and things like that being like location agnostic that like I might say I want it in that treasure chest But if they're not interested in the treasure chest or they can't get into the treasure chest or for whatever reason like They can find it in the cabinet in the kitchen instead that like whatever their choices to explore and that they put their effort and their excitement and enthusiasm in, that is what should be rewarded. So I just have stuff that you need to find, and you can find it anywhere you would like to look. That's cool. Yeah. Because I was in my head, I was imagining like a home-alone style mansion full of just various booby traps that are like, well, we're done shooting. We have to take these down now because you know we've triggered this particular moment. Well, that too. I mean, we have plenty of things like that. But I think in terms of those big set pieces, we try to be pretty clear about, you know, like the thing that tells you, you know, go to the basement where we have a budget stuff platform for you, that could be found anywhere. But you will go to the basement. You know, I'm another saying that I've kind of leaned into is that like every adventure is a sandbox. It just depends how big your sandbox is, right? Like, we say open-world sandbox, meaning like a whole continent, but like a house can be a sandbox. The idea is you have freedom within whatever boundaries the DM has given you. So if our sandbox is this 1920s mansion for season two, you can explore the whole mansion. But you know, you have complete freedom even though the like edge of the mansion is as far as you can go. So I am curious, what about the 1920s in particular spoke to you folks as the setting that you wanted to pursue for the second season? I think that innovation of technology, that kind of like beginning, you've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue. You're not just watching True Crime. You're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder, she watched the podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest True Crime documentaries on our favorite streamers. Did the spouse do it? Why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July? Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary? We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV. So every week we break down the twists, red herrings, and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night, it's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy. Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe, search Murder, she watched wherever you listen to podcast, and let's solve this thing together. It's quite possible that the peripheral vision loss is permanent, but we may be able to slow or even reverse your central vision damage. Get scared, with how I died of the Carrington event, how I died of the Carrington event is available now on all podcast apps. I think film is magic on some level. Those kinds of early technology was magic. You hear the account of the first time, I'm going to forget his name, but the French photographer that did that film reel of the train and it's coming towards camera. And he played it and the whole, everyone in the building got up and ran because they thought there was a train and they were like, that is magic and can you like wanting to recapture a little bit of that and like, how can I take my players and my characters and put them in a position where they see a moving image of a train and it delights them and astounds them to that level. So I think yeah, we're excited about taking some of those old tricks and making them new again and allowing people to experience them potentially the way a contemporary would have. With something that I love about this obviously is the physical location. When you're pursuing a project like this, developing it, obviously location scouting is super important. Are you writing the adventure with the hope that you'll find the perfect place in mind or are you then seeing the space and then molding the adventure or the overarching story to fit the confines of what you have? Mostly the latter. So we know vibe wise what we want, like we knew we wanted to do 1920s, say aunts, you know, art deco, like we knew that that was the vibe, we knew that it was going to be, you know, our pitch was clue with the overlook hotel. We had that figured out and we knew maybe some of the like general technologies and special effects that we wanted to play with. That gave us enough to then go location scout and look at a bunch of different places. But we really like to then tailor the adventure to that location and it's funny because as a GM prior to this that was always how I worked. I would go, okay, I want to do a haunted mansion and I would look up floor plans of Victorian mansions and then I would just populate those rooms and like why the big bad was there might have to do with the layout of the house and I go, okay, why are they there? Okay, I want this door to be locked, well why did they lock that door? What are they hiding there? You know, what are they keeping? So the story would kind of evolve out of the location. And so this we have an actual literal 1920s mansion that we're very excited about. This seems to have already been designed with some secrets and little buttons you can push that do fun things already. So I would say 10% of our work is done for us there. So yeah, we just want to be inspired by what is already there, what we can make with that space and make it feel like the story and this place are inextricable that they are connected. We interrupt this life-changing episode to bring you a word from today's sponsor Fabletics. Folks, let me ask you something, what kind of shopper are you? If you're anything like me, you're the kind of person who obsessively researches what you want, adds it to your cart and then for some reason waits like a year before buying it. I don't know why I do it, I just do. Except when I see a deal, I just know I can't pass up. And that's why I love Fabletics. The savings are eye-poppingly good and so is the quality. I can get premium feeling active wear and everyday essentials without paying premium prices, let me talk about a bang for your buck. Case in point, despite what I'm wearing right now, it's been insanely hot here in Los Angeles. I've been basically turning into a human cranberry bog, a melting candle of a man, except when I wear the one short from Fabletics, they keep me looking and feeling quite cool. But here in the office, we have an air conditioner, so I can lay her up, nice denim jacket, nice flannel shirt, I feel great. And listen, at Fabletics, when I signed up as a new VIP, I got 70 to 80% off my first order. It instantly made shopping easier because I knew I could get pieces that work well together. Being able to get everything in one place, active wear, golf apparel, lounge pieces, everyday essentials, that has made my life immeasurably easier. That was my number one problem in life right after spiders. Under the assembling random pieces of clothing like some kind of wardrobe vultron, I can put together outfits that make sense for anything I want to do. And the best part for someone like me is you can skip or cancel anytime. They offer flexible memberships with no long term commitment. So skip the months you know you won't shop, but enjoy the VIP perks with exclusive pricing the entire time. So if you're ready to take your wardrobe to the next level this fall, shop Fabletics.com/Sundry you get 70 to 80% off everything when you sign up as a new VIP. Take a quick style quiz and be sure to select sundry when prompted to unlock this offer. This is a limited time offer so don't wait again. That is fabletics.com/Sundry for 70 to 80% off everything as a new VIP. And now back to the show. Now one thing that I'm thinking about as well is I really admire people that are able to design clever puzzles. It is such a unique skill set and it it my brain does not necessarily tick in that way. I think in different ways, but when I see a clever puzzle deployed like that, I'm always it that to me is like witnessing close up magic. But from like a GM and designing perspective, what's the challenge of building a mystery or a puzzle that remains solvable to the players and feels challenging without making without feeling like you're railroading people towards an inevitable conclusion? Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, kind of what I just said before that as long as there's a why, right? People lock stuff up for all kinds of reasons. And these are just more elaborate ways that they're locking stuff up. They don't want you to go into the, you know, the beast doesn't want bells to go into the west wing, you know, like I would just put a puzzle on that door because that would be, make it harder for her to go there, you know? And I think, yeah, puzzles don't necessarily have to be railroads. They're just more atmosphere, they're more treasure, they're, they're another thing that exists within this space as long as you give it a reason, as long as there's a reason someone made it, how that they made it, whether that's magic or practical, then I think you're set. - I guess maybe railroad wasn't the right word. I'm Orman. How do you prevent your players from looking at it like maybe the chandelier for 45 minutes when really you want them to look at the bookcase? I mean, I have two answers to that. One I do think that there's a pact that a DM makes with their players, which is like, "Hey, follow my threads," right, like on a certain level if I say that there is a well in the center of town that has a ghostly howling coming out of it, please just look into it, right? Like, don't follow the bunny rabbit into the woods. But if you do, I will figure something out with the bunny rabbit. Maybe the bunny rabbit will run back towards the well, you know? At a certain level, we are telling a story and good characters and good players know that you, I think that's, you know, you are there to play with them. You're not there to trick them. You're not there to just murder them. You're there to create something exciting. And I think the handshake at the beginning of a D&D game is like, "Hey, trust me, right, come with me on this adventure. I promise it will be exciting and delightful and you will feel smart and brave." And I think that's usually enough. I don't usually have to push players too much as long as we have that understanding that like, "I have something fun. Play the fun thing." I think is easy. And then sometimes if they are, if they seem really interested in something like a chandelier and I don't particularly have anything planned with that, like, "I'll come up with it on the fly," you know? Like, "Oh, you want to look at the ship. There are five candles and eight spaces for candles." And I just make a little note and I go, "Now they're going to be interested in chandeliers and there's going to be different numbers and I'll figure out a puzzle down the road that will incorporate that because they just gave me a great idea." So yeah, being inspired by each other. That's awesome. I definitely appreciate that, especially when you're like, "You don't want to punish them for being curious about the wrong thing." Yeah. But as long as they're not punishing you by intentionally not being curious about your things, then you're good enough. Yes, yes. That's one of a well-timed trapdoor opens beneath them. Speaking of "Threads the DM" lays out, you folks have laid a little trail of breadcrumbs within the campaign itself. So talk to us a little bit about "Input Disposal." There are no puzzles and no secrets in this campaign. Okay. No further questions. No, I mean, honestly, all credit goes to my writing partner, Ed Gastonoli, for that. I am working three jobs and moving and got my kid and all the dogs and all this stuff. I have not been able to put the same kind of creative energy towards this that I would want to. But he has just taken it and run with it and just created an entire ARG that you can play along whether you back us or not. You can play this game. You can get to the mystery at the end. I think he's just done an extraordinary job as well as bringing in some other just incredibly talented people. Many of the people you know from other D&D YouTube channels and collaborators like that, but also like artists and, you know, computer programmers and things like that who just know how to make amazing things. Yeah, it's really, it's a treat. And I know creatively what we're doing, but I also don't, you know, I get kind of get to be surprised and delighted with the rest of you every time he shows me something. I go, "Oh, my God. I can't believe that person made that." It's awesome. Yeah. That's the best feeling, especially when you see other creative people building something that you can then use with other creative people you're going to be telling this story with. And that sounds like you'll be able to do a lot more because the campaign blew through its initial targets. Yeah. Congratulations on that. Thank you so much. Yeah. And it's been very cool to see how things are expanding, but obviously we talked a bit about special effects, but beyond simply making season two possible, increasing special effects, what does this sort of additional funding and especially independent funding allow you to do? Yeah. So much of season one was made on Ed and my blood, sweat, and tears and sleepless nights and, you know, it was basically self-funded through energy. And I think it also meant that, you know, we didn't have a ton of time. Really what this Kickstarter gives us is time, so that we can do vote specifically time to this project, not have to share it with a bunch of other projects that we're going to take precedents. And so when we would come up with a puzzle, we worked with the New York prop shop, which is an incredible group of people who are engineers and prop makers and they made, you know, our talking, or our, you know, moving eye book from the last season. We really would have loved to have given them really full free reign. So weeks of lead time and to really figure things out and make something extraordinary and they, they, because they're amazing, were able to make incredible things in a very short amount of time. But I think we'd like to give ourselves time, we'd like to give other creators time that we hire to really do what they do to the best of their ability so that they can be really proud and we can really amaze some people. That's fantastic. I think time, whether you're playing a game of D&D or making something is the most valuable resource you can have. So being able to have more of it truly illustrious, that's fantastic. So something I really appreciate that you've talked about over the years is trying to reduce the, I guess, barriers to enter your intimidation factor around sitting down and playing a game like D&D. And I'm curious, how do you sort of keep that ethos in mind when you approach project like Tales from Wood Creek? Well, one is we always like to have new players. So season one of Tales from Wood Creek, three of our guest players had never played D&D before. Literally, you watch the first time they've ever played on the show. And most of them, we didn't even really have a discussion about rules. We talked a little bit about character and who they wanted to play. And I gave them a very basic overview of like, high good, low-bad, you know. But I love showing audiences who are watching that this is an imagination game, first and foremost. This is a collaborative game. And I would rather that you play from your heart and your imagination. And then we'll use your sheet and your mechanics and statistics to figure out how to do what you want to do. Rather than looking at your sheet and going, well, I can only do that. That feels limiting. And I also feel like sometimes when we go by the sheet, we then only do things we're good at. Quote unquote, which is not as interesting as someone who's like, I jump over the lava and you're like, but you're not good at jumping and they're like too late, you know. And then you have to see if it will succeed, right? And that there's this instinct that can come from newer players that more seasoned players I think can forget sometimes how to do. And so I want new players to feel like you are welcome, jump in, you can't play this game wrong. And I want more seasoned players to be reminded of what it's like to be a new player and bring a little bit of that, you know, double-made care kind of spontaneity back to the game. Yeah, I mean, that also just sort of creates some of the most exciting moments, especially if it works. Or if it does. But I agree. I feel like so often, not even people that like to min-max their character, you've just sort of, you've been playing for a certain amount of time, you just feel beholden to the rules when it really is just suggestions to help you tell the story you want to tell. Yeah, yeah. And Wizards would say the same thing, you know, which is, which makes such a great publishing company. Yeah. When you were describing that, I was immediately imagining a similar role I've made in the past where my character just completely ate shit and just fell over. And I'm thinking about how you apply that to something like designing a puzzle. How do you build in the possibility of failure when solving a physical puzzle? So, one, I always have a role for hints. So, at any time, if you're just stumped, I want you to succeed at this puzzle. And the main thing for me with puzzles, they should make people feel smart. Puzzles are not about making people feel stupid, that's the opposite. You want them to feel like, oh, I thought about it, and I got it, right? That's the excitement, the experience of a puzzle. So one, if people have creative ideas that are different than the solution to my puzzle, but they're still awesome, I will throw out my puzzle and you will win. You can ask for hints if there's trouble getting there, and I will find an atmospheric way to say that. So again, it feels like you are figuring it out rather than just being told how to get it. I also think that there are layers of complexity to puzzles. Most writers have written really terrible stories. The only thing different about me is that I kept them all. Now my brand new show, Character Development, I'm going to force my very talented actor friends to read them with me. There are teen slashers where every character sounds edgy as hell. There's sci-fi giants that read just a little bit too much like giant penises, and there's a murderer who enjoys musical theater for some reason. Listen to Character Development, a comedy podcast, on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Steve Cubine and Mad McNamara's podcast from Beneath the Hollywood Sun. keeping a diary. This torrid affair with Georgia's Kaufman is chronicled on a daily basis. "We're talking about the actors and actresses who won an Oscar on their very first film. Get your fix of old Hollywood on the podcast from beneath the Hollywood sign." So maybe there's a code on a door. Okay, it's in regular, you know, English alphabet, easy. Okay, now let's put it in rooms. Now you have to decipher a room before you can do the puzzle. Now let's hide the room, you know, the rosetta stone of the rooms in another room past a swamp. All right, now there's another layer, right? Like you can add these layers on top of things. And I have found sometimes that if I have a puzzle with several layers, I can just take a couple of the middle ones out if I feel like people are not into it or they're struggling or I've learned my table and I know that they're not going to be interested in certain ones. So I've done that a ton and that's that's a pretty easy way to just be like I made a I made a five room dungeon. These two are gone. It's no three rooms. So yeah, you know, you can kind of adjust in the moment to that. But that takes some learning and some instinct. So I always say start with simple puzzles when you're a DM and learning how to run them and start to slowly add complexity. Because really puzzles are hard for the DM more than they are. You have to learn how to run them. Way more time thinking about it than the players will. Absolutely. Like I mean, for example, just because this came to mind, I had this I had this bookshelf puzzle. Like your classic like pull the right books to like let the door swing open thing. And I spent hours. I drew the bookshelf out. I had titles on all of the books. I did it in color and calligraphy on this big board that I put out in front of them. And it was a puzzle that had to do with like repeating letters and things like that. And they looked at it for a while. I gave them some hints. They still weren't getting it. And our rope was like is there flour in the kitchen? And I was like fascinating. Sure. And she went and she got flour and she dusted the books for fingerprints. And I was thinking what? I think that's genius. And I'm going to give you the five books. Now they still had to puzzle out what order to do them. I was like go ahead and bypass. They didn't there was nothing about like the the double letters or anything like that. They completely skipped my puzzle. But I was so impressed with that move that I wanted that to win. I wanted that to be the solution. And because in the end she felt smart. And that's of course the ultimate goal of the puzzle. Yeah. I mean, that's a to me. It's the perfect example of why inspiration exists as a mechanic. And just like when your player does something that just delights you to no end. Yes. That's the coolest thing you could have done. Wakeland, what I had, let's go with it. You win. Absolutely. At GameCon Canada, something you said, you encouraged creators not to feel like you need to emulate other games like Critical Role or Dimension 20 or even Wood Creek. And the goal should be more to create the version of the game that reflects your own sensibilities and perspective, which I really appreciate that really resonated with me. What's something that you hope that someone who watches Wood Creek would realize that maybe they're now allowed to try, but in their own style. Yeah. I think, you know, one of the things that so many actual play shows are really great at are, you know, so many of them are voice actors. And they come from people that can do these really amazing shifts in their voices. And that's something I am not good at. And so sometimes when I would watch something like Critical Role and see the proficiency that they have at that. And I would go, Oh God, I'm terrible at NPCs because I can't do that. I can't shift that way the way that Mercer can or any of them can. And I must be a bad DM. And then I realized, Oh, no way. I might not be good at accents or things like that, but I can do voices and I can like hunch my back and I can get physical. And that's more my strength. And so I think the idea is not necessarily to then go, well, everybody else then should be more physical or then, you know, or do voices instead of accents. But it's what are you good at? And what inspires you? And I, you know, I've always said whether when it comes to writing, dubbs and dragons, whatever it is, the best story you can tell is the one that excite that you want to tell that you think is a great story. You shouldn't try to tell a story that you think is important or that you think is good. You should just tell the story that you are excited about because if you're the only one who can tell that story and you will do it better than anyone. And I look at something like Wood Creek and it's just my little love letter to that idea, which is saying don't you don't you're not worse because you're not the famous popular ones. You are unique to you and your players will love what you uniquely bring because you'll do it excellent. The nice thing is that with the proliferation of actual players, there's so many incredible niches now where people can really spread their wings, tell the stories that they want to tell that people want to hear because they might not know that there's other stories out there. So very excited for people to check out Tales from Wood Creek season 1 to get involved with season 2. It's incredibly exciting. Yeah come to Tales from Wood Creek.com. We'll take you right to our Kickstarter page for season 2. We've got seven days or I guess from where this is airing but we've got a few days left and you know we we've so many things in store. There's some incredible rewards out there. Lots of merchandise, lots of opportunities. You can play test with me if you would like to for the show. There are yeah all kinds you can come to the premiere here in Toronto. You know lots of things offered. We announced Felicia Day is going to be a guest next season. So please come back. Spread the word. Help us get season 2 made as spookily as we can. That's awesome. I want to wrap things up with a question we like to ask everyone who comes on the show and that is it's game night. You can bring any game you want and people are legally, morally, and spiritually obliged to play it. No matter what, what are you bringing in why? So I'm a kinesia fan. So I probably am bringing either role for adventure or siege of Runadar. I would have some troubles. I'm really into siege of Runadar right now. I have almost no one to play with. Now that I'm here I maybe I will play siege of Runadar with me. But I love that game and it's so complex and so interesting and I've like never won it. I really would like to win once. So that's a great game I might bring. I like Fowers brothers as well. I might bring now boarding is a great one or Virgo Brothers. So I have too many answers to that question. Too many answers is the best kind of answers, especially for a game night. So fantastic. Well, Deborah, thank you again for joining us. I really appreciate it. Tales from Wood Creek is available to back now on Kickstarter. Check out season one on the Dungeon dudes YouTube channel. I said you tales from Wood Creek dot com to find out you can get involved. And if you want even more amazing conversations like this, you can find even more questions and answers on Geek and Centres YouTube channel or ever find podcasters served. So thank you again to everyone listening and for now folks. Tell us what are you playing this week? What are you most excited to bring to your table? Let us know in the comments below and we'll see you folks next time. Bye bye. Bye. Now before you go hunting for something else to listen to, let me make it easy. I'm Mike Carothers host of a podcast called Something You Should Know. And I speak with experts about fascinating things that affect your life from human behavior, relationships, health, science, and everyday mysteries. We've been downloaded millions of times because every episode teaches you something you'll be talking about later. Open up Something You Should Know and give it one episode. You might just find your new favorite podcast. The tutors were probably the most scandalous dynasty in British history. The season on vulgar history were spilling the tea on this messy, messed up family and the people who had to live through it all. And Berlin and the other wives of Henry VIII are known today from the musical six, but who were they really? Did any of them actually want to marry him? Henry VIII, the man who is literally the worst? How did two of them manage to escape with their heads intact? We'll also get into historical mysteries, like who really wrote Shakespeare's plays? Who was the real bloody Mary? What was happening elsewhere in the world while the tutors are trampling all over England? Like the mysterious disappearance of the ro-no colony and the true story of the girl known as Pocahontas? I'll be joined by tutor historians, experts, and a few of my friends who really hate Henry VIII to learn all about the tutors this season on vulgar history. Because it's f***ing Henry VIII all day, every day. Listen to vulgar history wherever you get podcasts. The world of Sonic the Hedgehog has been thrust into a not-so-dark, not-so-stormy hard-boiled detective story that probably nobody saw coming. Follow Sonic and the intrepid chaotics detective agency as they take on their biggest case yet. This high-flying action-packed venture will take them across the world, fighting for every clue they can find. It's one heck of a tale, which is good because this story might be the only thing that can save their lives. Well, if that's all I can just dispose of you. Wait, what? All will be revealed in Sonic the Hedgehog presents the Chaotic's Case Files. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.