Debating Dynasty QB Tiers for 2026 - Dynasty Fantasy Football

[music] Welcome to the Fantasy Footmoller's Dynasty Podcast with Borg Bets in a Baller. [music] Welcome in, boys and girls. Fantasy Footmoller's Dynasty Podcast, he got Borg, Bets and Mike. Welcome in everybody. How are you doing, boys? Talking quarterbacks. A lot of good quarterbacks, man, I felt these days. Is there? That's what we say every July and August. And then it's week 13. We'll find out by the end of this show. It's week 13. And here comes Max Brozmer, Carson Beck, and who's your boy in New York, Kate Clubnick. Maybe we'll see some Drew Allerly in the year. The stars of Dynasty Leagues, they said. I want my name attached to Kate Clubnick. I'm very happy. Are you sure about that? Yes, I'm very happy to -- Okay, so just real quick. Fourth round, Kate Clubnick of the show. Clubnick? Yeah. I feel like I've never heard it pronounce that way until this moment of my life. So, it's not Clubnick? I've always done Clubnick. That's God. Oh, man. I thought you were going to tell us like definitive answer. Oh, it's definitely this. You just said this is what I do. Well, here's what I want. We need to get our top man on this. Here's what I want to be able to throw it out there. Also, I mean, the English language. Let's just have fun with it. Well, you can do it. Bro, we're dealing with all of the ramifications of trying to lead the charge on the Travis H.A. and Jr. I'm happy to switch from ETN. I'm happy to do that. But what I'm -- Well, don't give me another one where it's like, I -- Is it Clubnick? There's a Clemson fan out there who is just screaming right now. They're like, "How do you not know this?" Well, here's what I want to say. Here's the best part of the game that we play. Is that it is a very low risk. And probably very low upside mark for me to just even say that I like this player and I like his opportunity with the Jets. When maybe they have a different play collar, week 12. It's not Frank Reich. It's things have changed. Oh, Frank will be there, buddy. Frank is here for the long haul. You think so? Let's see you in the future. I feel so bad for Frank Reichman. I believe on one of our shows I said he's an old white man with no motion. You did say that. You did say that. I think I was on DFS in bedding. Yeah, what Kyle is referencing is the fact that he does not use motion in the year 2026, which the NFL passes these guys by. You know, we saw with Doug Peterson. It kind of happened. It got stale. It was like, all right, it's time. But, you know, Frank, he's back with the Stanford for a year. Had some fun in college. Now he's back. So we'll see. All right, Mike, go for it. So pro football reference, which is kind of our go to, it's a great site. There's a free shout out for them. And they often have pronunciations. They have club Nick. Like five million club all caps CLUB for pronunciation. Club Nick. Club Nick. This is not. So you've been out here proliferating club Nick. You got bets all screwed up. I feel fine. I trust Kyle. He's down on the south. He's supposedly. I would have trusted him immediately. He supposedly knows what's happening in ACC and SEC country. This is the problem though. And how we function that you've gotten the point, Mike, where you trust me. Yeah. A little too much. No, we have, we are fully Ron Burgundy. I wrote it in the doc. I'm gonna read it. I definitely, I definitely have it. And we'll see if this happens. I plan to in the doc a place where Andy's listening off a bunch of wider sewers for the giants because there's like a hundred of them. Uh-huh. One of them and says Kathy Bates in there. I just want to see if he reads it off. Oh, that's going to be amazing. So we'll find out later on this week if one of those podcasts. All right. Yeah. That's a fun game. Yeah. That was one of my favorite mistakes I've ever made at work is when I put in the show doc last year for Rashad White. I messed it up and that's where Dick White came from. When you called him Richard. I put Richard in the doc facts and it and Andy just read it. Just read it right off the screen. I listened back and I was like, oh no. We're back into the show doc and I saw it. I was like, geez, I'm an idiot. But now we have a brand new nickname on the show and you're welcome. He will read anything. And I mean any thing on that teleprompter. So it is, it is a really fun part of our show that there's trust. There's years of trust built and we could tear it all down. It would die me. It's a little bit. It's lowered. Okay. With this clubnic. Probably in the right spot. We will talk quarterbacks. We'll talk Dynasty tears. It'll be interesting too because we know the 2027 class of quarterbacks is supposedly very, very strong right now. I am seeing six in the top 14 right now and current mock drafts. It's very early. But that is a healthy number that we get to add in the mix. We're not going to really speculate about those guys. But in diet like quarterbacks hold their value because they're pretty stable year to year. But we can project for certain players. The mobile guys, guess what? They run and there are the news at score points. So we can kind of figure out like at the quarterback position, not a ton changes year to year, you can't have players that tear jump. We'll talk about Drake May who's kind of in this spot now. It's like, if you want to take him after Josh Allen in a super flex. Yeah. That thing shift. But then there's other guys in this middleing area that I think we don't really know what to do with. I think that'll be some of the more interesting conversations when we get to like QB 10, QB15. That's like, okay, how do I, you know, how do I value these guys in a super flex? Is this guy really a quarterback one? Like, he doesn't feel like it week to week. But you have cheaper guys like Dac who is a quarterback one and nobody respects him in dynasty at all. You know who respects him now? Jim Bros. Have you seen all the guns? Dac? Holy crap. I haven't seen this. I'm locked off. So I'm not helpful. You thought it's in your white head, sweet biceps? You did. Take a look at that. Dax offseason program has consisted of curls, hammer curls, preacher curls, isolated curl hold. Dude, the man is yoked out of his mind right now. At least the way that these couple pictures have looked. Did you adjust the ranks? No, because I don't have to move deck up because I love deck forever. You have been, you've held strong for a long time and I feel like maybe we said the same thing on this podcast every single year when we do this quarterback tears episode of like, well, nobody really wants him and he's a really strong. It's back in QB1, but nobody ranks him there. It's wild of the cowboys and their fandom. I mean, I got the zoom out is yeah, you have one, like you haven't made any noise in the playoffs in what's like 30 years or something. I mean, it's been like the 90s. It's been a rough run there, but it's not the quarterbacks fault other than the one, the rumble batch or botched up a hold. I get it. But rumble right into deck press got like these and these are two guys who just seem to be undervalued constantly by by fandom by fantasy footballs. I'll stand up for them. And now he's got the biceps to go with it. So I mean, yeah, it does. Come on. Dude, deck is the perfect quarterback to and super flex. Oh, yeah. Won't cost quarterback home prices. He's air quotes old, but I mean, he's going to keep doing this for another few years and he just keeps producing. So I love it, especially with George Pickens there and we think, I mean, we'll see. We think George is hopefully sticking around beyond this year. So it would be amazing. I think he's a perfect quarterback to this year for your super flex team. If you want to find all of projections that we have for players like deck press got, you can find them in the ultimate draft kit ultimate draft kit.com. We just added a brand new feature over the last couple of weeks, the mock draft tool. If you want to mock draft against your league mates, you want to kind of see where players go and redraft. You can do that. You also can get the dynasty past as part of that where you can see all of Mike's startup rankings, which we will refer to on this episode. The ultimate draft kit.com, but let's talk quarterback. Dynasty rankings. So this is the sound like you said, let's talk quarterback. Let's talk. Is there an ass on? Was there an ass on there? I think I threw that out, but you know what? Who knows? You're all your super flustered now. Let's just talk about one quarterback and that is correct. Let's talk about this guy who's on your taxi squad. I realize this is the third episode we've done about tears. And at quarterback, I felt the most comfortable putting our rankings into tears, especially if you're in a super flex draft where we kind of constantly preach like everybody else reaches for this position. And you can kind of see the way that our rankings work that everybody is to your diet. No, Mike, you've had this approach in your rankings for a long time for super flex. Like, hey, I'm not just going to take this quarterback because I'm supposed to. And so players are kind of pushed out in the rankings. We're like, hey, this guy's more like a round two pick as opposed to early round one. And I feel like in dynasty, that's really needed or else people just end up taking the position because they're supposed to. Yep. I think you can build a stronger. team focusing on some other guys and finding these quarterbacks who just aren't as appreciated, but I will let you begin, Kyle. Yeah. Before we get into the first year, which spoil alert, there's only one dude in that first year. And I feel really good about calling it the Josh freaking Alan tier. I lead the there's honestly there's one conversation about Josh Allen for me is how long is it last? That's I literally said a day is coming, but it's not today. Nope. And so that's the only the only bets are hedging you have to make on Josh Allen or how long do you think it will last? And you know, they've done some study stuff of guys who run and like who are real prolific mobile quarterbacks. And at what point those numbers fall off and like Josh Allen is what year are we in Josh Allen? He can't believe he's 30 years old. So what season are we in? So he was drafted in 18. Yes. So he's going into season nine. And this is like when I was looking at it because of the whole reason I did it in the first place was because I wanted to look at Cam Newton of like this Cam Newton's a freaking super hero. But it would the end will come and like when did it come for his predecessors and it's it's right about this time. Now Josh Allen seems different to me than than like Cam Newton. I know Cam had really prolific passing years, especially earlier on in his career where like the numbers for Alan passing wise have been way down. We haven't seen him throw for goodness over the last two years. It's 3700 and then 3600 essentially. So we haven't seen a big boy passing year since 2023. But I think for Josh Allen, even when the when the rushing subsides a little bit number one, the rushing touchdown upside will always be there for Josh Allen. Maybe your total yardage comes down to a place where we want more. But then when he had one once he has to switch to being a just a quarterback who can move around and break tackles and then get it done through the air, I think he'll be more than capable. Yeah. I'm Cam Newton too. Real quick. The thing that I think also really kind of made his decline happen a lot faster. That shoulder injury a little bit later in his career. And then also had a foot injury that I'm not sure how much of that played into his decline. But yeah, I mean, it's interesting. A Buffalo like with the skill group that he's had, it's truly remarkable how good Josh Allen is like since that since Steph digs left. They've taken a quantity of equality approach at pass catcher and are just rotating guys in there and Tyrell Schaibers. Why not Brandon Cooks? Come on down. They're competing to the wider and playoff games with this crew, which is perhaps just so agree just that maybe I mean, I hope we do. But there's a world that exists for Josh Allen. Everyone's super well and it's so sad to think about that. But as far as fantasy and dynasty outlook, I agree. I mean, the only question is like, do you ever get to a point in the next two, maybe three years where you say like, okay, I want to cash in. But if you don't like doing that, you just want to ride it out with one of the best players of the last decade. That's cool too. So it's just a matter of personal preference on risk there. Yeah. And to put the cherry on top, like the greatest fantasy quarterback of all time. That's what that's why I think we're headed. Like that's where you can say he has the most rushing touchdowns ever for quarterback. And then you think about the run that he's been on in the last six years. It's truly remarkable. And the biggest change last year was a lot of short stuff. 21% of his attempts were behind the line of scrimmage. That was the highest of his career. And this team is just so good at running the ball that you kind of just understand why they do what they do. My last question is just like, is Joe Brady a good play collar? Does he elevate anything? That's like what we'd hope this offense does passing wise. But I just feel like we're staying status quo because we know it's the same play collar. And then other than DJ Moore, we can't really get excited about like the passing options taking a step forward. So like, I look at his eight on, I'm like, is this really going to change this year? I hope it does. I hope we get more big plays. But I'm like pretty lukewarm on Joe Brady. Joe Brady has been in charge of calling his place for how many years? Let's see. Ken Dorsey left. So 23. 23 is when Joe Brady showed up. Yes. So in 4,300 yards that year, still 500 on the ground. I think I think he's probably like a neutral. You could definitely have someone better, but you could also have someone worse. His their password definitely worse gone down every single year in Joe Brady system. Their pass rate of expectation, their no huddle rate. It's like all the stuff that we would normally say like, I don't like that for a play collar. And yet, Josh Allen kind of just overcomes it. You put, you mentioned it, but it doesn't really matter. He can continue to have Tyrell Shavers or the ghost of Joshua Palmer, Keon Coleman, it doesn't really matter. Yeah. I think Joe Brady's scheme ironically kind of like happened with Josh Allen at like a perfect time where defense has started to just to this like cover to take away the deep ball type stuff. And Joe Brady was like, sweet. That's what I do anyway. So let's just keep doing that. So I'm interested to see like if the NFL defensive kind of norm switches because NFL is stickable right? It'll change. If that starts to change in the next like two years, how does he adjust to that? But that's obviously a conversation for another day. All right. Let's take a quick break and then we're going to get to tier two. All right. Tier two, I'm calling them the super duper's. I didn't really know a better word, but the super duper's is Drake May, Jane Daniels, Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson. Do you guys feel comfortable of this four pack being together? Oh, yeah. I feel comfortable. I feel comfortable because of just where the entirety of the landscape is I have Joe Burrow the highest of that group. I have Joe Burrow as my number two fantasy quarterback as I believe that what he does with what he's surrounded with, you know, for the foreseeable future in his past catchers keeps him up there. You know, like Drake, Drake's the hardest one of what do you do with a guy who's not even 24 yet and then was in the MVP conversation in year two, just up until the very end when Stafford stole it away. And Drake May didn't have a true number one. Drake May wasn't in the position of, oh, I'm going to a team that's loaded. We already have our past catchers. They have very replaceable players that they played with last year. And now you have the addition of AJ Brown, like where is this true ceiling, the true passing ceiling for Drake May? That's, I mean, it's, you could put him at like a year from now. It wouldn't shock me if May. He might. Could be at one. However, people will bring up the schedule and we'll just bring up the variables of how hot he was on deep passes, which I always know a little research for this of like which stats just aren't sticky and deep throws success rate year to year is like super volatile. In the same way we would say 50, 50 balls for a wide receiver, like one year at hits, one year doesn't. I feel like he's do for some regression there. But the way that he runs, you're just going to continue to get a high floor. I don't think you're going to be able to repeat last year. But at 23 year old quarterback is easily top five in a year from now on to start up. It wouldn't shock me if you went ahead of Alan. Yeah, that wouldn't shock me either. I will say on on Drake made the only thing that I'll kind of context this around is like this year outlook versus over the next five years kind of thing. I think we should all expect some level of regression. How much is that hard to say? Like the schedule is obviously going to be a lot more difficult. You mentioned the deep ball numbers like he was off the chart. Tim and Sam Dornell were just obliterating the league every week in those metrics that will come down. And so just if you have some of these kind of variants, you know, pieces that kind of fall back a little bit, you might be like, Oh, you know, I took Drake man redraft as the quarterback to he finishes the quarterback six like what a bummer. But obviously in dynasty, like I feel so good about Drake may be locked in for the next couple of years with Josh McAnnell's another year in the system, obviously getting AJ Brown. The line is still a working progress, but in theory, should be better than it was last year. So I think a good things ahead for Drake may even if it is a quote unquote regression year. I like your aggressive rank on burrow. I know you've always been pro burrow. But for 2026, like we've talked about their schedule at length that they're favored in 15 of 17. Like this could set up for one of those burrow years where he throws for 45 and, you know, 5,000 yards where like it blows everybody else out of the water in a six point league. That's 100% how I feel about him and the potential this year of it. It's been a frustrating career with Joe burrow because of injuries. It's like, do you say Joe burrow is injury prone? I don't, I don't know. Like guys get hurt in the NFL and his seem to be kind of fluky, you know, or just like really unfortunate of, yeah, that's just kind of it happens in the game and then this, it happened to Joe burrow. it's that you know it's the Christian McCaffrey bet over last year. If Joe Burrow stays healthy, when he's healthy in those 16 or 17 game seasons, the dude is, he's 4,530 plus. That's what will happen. And then room for magic, like if, you know, like, I don't know the numbers off the time I had it, like how much have we seen Joe Burrow with Jamar and T Higgins? Like in a totality of a season, you know what I mean? If, what if, that's yourself, what if, what if T Higgins stays healthy the whole year, which Jamar and it's like, 5,000's not impossible, 40 is not impossible. And there's, I don't think there's any other quarterback that could come close to those types of numbers. - Yeah, I'm with you. I think Burrow set up for an unbelievable season. He's kind of one of those guys that I think, we look up in, you know, eight weeks in, like he's gonna be in the MVP conversation, the conversation to lead the league in passing, like that type of stuff. And not to get too narrow to be, but like doesn't it kind of feel like his patience with the Bengals is starting to wane and there was kind of some weird interviews last year and stuff like that? - Yes. - I think, and we haven't heard a thing from Joe Burrow for months now. Like he's kind of just been in the shadow. Like he kind of feels like he's gonna come out and remind us of who he is this year. That's how I'm approaching it. In Super Flex leagues, it's obviously very tough to acquire Joe Burrow. People have had him, they know the highs, they know Jamar Chase and T Higgins. And obviously you're not getting Jamar Chase from anybody. But as we were talking through this, like the way that I was kind of thinking through this is like, man, if I want to piece this offense, the guy that I feel like nobody's talking about right now is T Higgins. And like you mentioned, Mike, it's kind of some of this, yeah, he's in, is he quote unquote, injury prone, he's been frustrating guy. Like he's gonna play, he has a hamstring, he's gonna play and then he's out there for like 30% of the snaps. Like we've all been there with T Higgins, but man, the upside this year with this offense, I think it's through the roof. So I'm with you in the burrow love. - It's shocking to me that Zack Taylor is about to enter your eight and-- - It's crazy. - And seven of those years. So I mean, all seven, he has been on the hot seat. - I feel like it, like he's not really a coach. Like he's just kind of puppeted in front of the team because-- - That's the meanest thing that we have said about any coach on any of our shows Kyle. - He's not really a coach. - He's not. - He's just more of a player than me. - Man, he's kind of there. - Let me just say that, okay. - Do you remember when we were farting around the first couple of years with the Bengals and their rush rate was like at the top of the league and it's like, this is just-- - Yes. - Yes, and we were like-- - Onleast burrow, what are you doing? - Like I wonder if he had his Rodgers moment where he's just like, hey, can I just call the place? Can I just be the dude to do it? And I'll give Dan Pitcher, I'll give their offense coordinator more credit than Zack Taylor, which is bad. Because I just feel like he's getting to unleash and do what he's good at and rip it. I will find out what stat later though, Michael, like what percentage of burrow games have both those players been on the field? - Of the three. - Yeah, of the three, all three of them and then what was the production kind of rated out. But-- - All right, do you find that? I'll move the conversation to Jayden while you're-- - Jayden and Lamar are just crazy 'cause they both have new play callers. - And what we, here's the hard part. It's gonna, guys, it's gonna sound sacrilege. I understand that. Are we 100% sure that Jayden Daniels is that guy? Because we don't, I'm saying we don't have a lot of evidence of him yet. - And by that guy, you mean-- - I mean, like in elite fantasy football court of course. - Yes, I'm convinced. - He's got, okay, 'cause it's like everything is there for what we want in terms of his archetype. And obviously the rookie year was sensational. Let me go grab that. So, you know, 36, almost 3600 yards, 25 touchdowns and then the almost 900 rushing yards. He was not nearly as good last year. Like, all numbers were down. And I know it's a shortened year. It's only a seven game sample. And his number one weapon, Terry McLean, was really not there, but yards per attempt went from six to 4.8. Maybe over the course of a season that balances out. But I don't know, his yards per attempt went from 7.46.7. Touchdown rate was down almost a full point. Completion was down 8%. And now he's going into a brand new offensive scheme. These things get talked about a lot. We're gonna play under center more, but they are. You know, Jane Daniels, it was, was playing in the, in the Cliff Kingsbury. This is a college offense that generally works in the NFL. But that's not what Quinn is going to be running now. So I just bring it up of, he's ranked aggressively. I have him, you know, as number four, but are we, are we 100% sure? Because part of finishing this side, like the mobile quarterback, it's the cheat code. Yes, we need a baseline of rushing. And 900 yards is insane. But to go along with the rushing, you still need a healthy dose of passing to get the guys who jump into the top three. You know, our numbers of, when we're talking about mobile quarterbacks, we're saying, I'm getting a floor. I'm getting a top 12 guys for sure. But you still have to have really good passing numbers to make the leap to top three. So Kyle, you're saying no, no worries for you at all. The year, the rookie, we said it. Yeah, well, you just said it for Drake May. Oh, the schedule's going to get harder. That's what happened to Jay Daniels and Washington last year. This scramble rate is just over the top cheat code of what Pandas football is. I just, like until he just one day just nerfs that and ends up running at like 6% of his dropbacks, like then I'll figure it out. But man, he's going to be continue to be 12%, which breaks fantasy. I mean, you can throw for 200 yards. And if you're running like that, like you, you're going to be a top five quarterback. I will say though, the thing on Daniels that I at least, I don't want to say doubt, but like something to consider with him for his outlook is like, yes, they have Terry. But Terry is not exactly in his prime anymore. And behind Terry, they basically have nothing. You know, so like if Terry goes down this year, maybe they sign, they bring back D-Bot, they sign Stefan Diggs or something over the next two or three weeks, but like as it stands behind Terry, it is probably the worst wide receiver room in the NFL. If you take away Terry. So it's like, if something happens there and David Blow as a first time play caller, I mean, we all think it's going to be great. We've seen this before, the story before where it's like, oh, it actually wasn't great. Like there are variables here to consider from a, you know, downside case. But at the same time, you know, with Jayden, I do think he is that talented. And like Kyle said, the rushing obviously is going to be there. So to me, it is just that extra piece. Can we get him as a top tier passer as well with this skill group and with the new OC? That's a question mark. But the floor is intact because the rushing, I just think the ceiling, we need to make sure it's still intact with the skill group that is currently there, which is not the deepest. - We basically, I did the numbers of Burrow, like you were talking about Burrow. - Okay. - Basically, since Chase came to the league 2021, almost a quarter of the games, one of them is missed. And Burrow has been on the field. So it's like, you have. - So it's about 75% of the time there together? - Yeah, it's like, and you know Burrow's kind of like hitter miss too. So when you start to look at the splits, it's like, okay, well, you're throwing out a quarter of like elite production. And Burrow does have, you know, very clear splits when Higgins is out and Yardish goes down. The wide receivers can still eat, but for Burrow, that's the bigger thing is like, the production does go down when you're throwing to Yoshivas and whoever else, the Titans. So, yeah, I'm just, I'm bullish on him on J. Daniels. I'm bullish on Lamar with Declan Doyle. Like I like both of these play collars that are being added in. Do you guys feel the same with Declan Doyle? - Yes, I do. Yeah, I'm very excited for that. Lamar is, it's the same question as Josh Allen. Lamar is gonna be turning 30 this year. Like his injuries have been adding up over the course of his career. How long do we have Lamar? Hey, and this isn't the, I'm not trying to lead into, well, the end is real real real soon for Lamar. It's a genuine question of he gets beat up more than someone like Josh Allen. - Yeah, just for context on that. I mean, last year we saw him come back from injury and he had a career low in Rush Times per game, 5.1, which for him, normally he's at 9, 10, 11 Rush Times per game, had the hamstring injury at ankle toe, a back issue, it was a rough season for him. So hopefully he's healthy and can get going here again. I will say the thing on Lamar that is interesting is he kind of feels similar to Jane Daniels in some ways from a surrounding environment. At the same point, we do have a first time play collar. We think it's gonna go great. I hope it does. But again, behind Zae Flowers, you have major question marks. Mark Andrews is another year older. He's coming off back to back career lows in Yars Pyrout Run over the last two years. And then I mean, Rashad Bateman is what he is. And then Devon says Walker has done nothing in the NFL to this point and you're counting on, I would say some volatile rookies in Elijah Sarat and Jacobi Lane. So like if Zae goes down, question marks everywhere and Derek Henry is yet another year older. So I think the right til I come straight on this team and for Lamar are massive, but I think the floor is probably lower than maybe we realize. That's scary to me because they've been such a consistent team. First so long, you just count on Baltimore, the organization. But even like the offensive line and the bit part players that like are annoying to us in fantasy, but like matter like likely and collar on the field matter for them and what they've done for 12 personnel for so many years or Patrick or card as a fullback like that's part of the identity of the team. Tyler the bomb - he's gone Yeah, there's variables with this team which I've never really thought about it because he's Lamar But I still am putting him among this group like I can't fathom because he does what's most valuable he runs And then the type of attempts 9% of his attempts last year were in zone attempts So he's throwing to guys literally standing in the in the in zone 10% of the time That's like a crazy high rate to get an outlier touchdown season which we know Lamar can do it right? Lamar can hit 8 9% and He's one of the few guys that you woke up and you're like that wouldn't shock me if Lamar jacks was at 8% His career is a six and a half percentile touchdown that way and and year his rookie year was horrifically bad. He was down at three and a half percent He's a video game character, right? Like this is the guy that you would take control and run around in the backfield and throw a deep so I still have him here Is there any worry that he could drop from this group a year from now? Yes, I? Think it's possible another and if he gets beat up again This year the questions will start to get loud. Okay. Yeah, it's just it's a variable like if you're creating if you're looking at a rankings Those are one of the things that like you could put next to them like I have a little spreadsheet It's like okay a year from now like this this could be dicey and I don't want to shock us because he's Lamar Jackson And he's one of the greatest ever but things could change Tier three is fun because I'm calling it the knife fight fellows because all the dudes in this list You're coming to a knife fight and you're ready to fight anybody especially on the internet about these dudes Oh, okay, I didn't I had no read on where that was gonna Okay, so you're talking about the the Twitter warriors. Yeah, we've all been in a knife. I mean all of us obviously right? Yes Okay, real and online. Yes, here are the quarterbacks that I mean you talk about these guys and they will ignite some fires online Patrick my homes just in Herbert Caleb Williams dear Lord if I ever post anything about Caleb Williams I get destroyed Jackson Dart Jalen Hertz and Trevor Lawrence was actually a pretty big tear and all of these guys we have ranked as Late first to second round picks in a superflex startup. So we're kind of have them all teared there but man Like I know that I'm a Justin Herbert lifer and us her bro's got to stick together But sure there's also a lot of people that the production doesn't that's a saying a lot of people just a group lack of playoff wins Caleb Williams Is a polarizing dude? Yes, and for for good reason of not not 25 years old yet going we got year three and everything is Everything is there like the the Chicago Bears nucleus You up front like we say on this show all the time bets. It's so easy It's so easy to win in the NFL Fix your lines Fix your offensive line fixed your defensive line win Super bowls the off at the the bears Heard my advice and they're like oh, it's that easy. Well, let's pour a bunch of money into their offensive line My mean look look who could have possibly see this coming. Who could have seen it come. Yeah, it's it's so easy Then surround your quarterback with like upside skill position players Check I mean here you're starting It's like okay for top 10 pick Rome top 10 pick lovelin Early second round Luther Burton like this is that's your nucleus and I mean who could forget second round deandre swift of of course, but it's like and Caleb runs He runs and he's willing to chuck the ball down the field. It's everything is there except Caleb has to get better Which that's one of those things over the course the NFL. What's your bet? Do you think Caleb Williams is going to keep on improving? I Of the three of us. I'm the most bullish. I would talk of the of the footballers rankings I Caleb you want to talk about who who can easily jump If something happens to Lamar Caleb could jump into that tier two Halfway through this year. I'm with that take. I think that's a good way to look at the Upside case outcome here for Caleb. I mean, it's not hard to paint the picture right you just you just did at Mike It's like you get another year with Ben Johnson and there was growing pains like I think that was expected in the early part of the season like you're going from you know completely different play collar to a new innovative mind You have new weapons. It's going to take some time and you saw the frustrations early on not a ton of completions You know a lot of highs, but a lot of those But overall like if you just kind of zoom out It's like this guy has the weapons the play collar the talent the line and I mean the like futures markets all expect the bearish to be great this year So what's not to love? So yeah, I think that completion percentage does go up this year I'm buying Caleb Williams stock and I think he will be one of those guys that we look back in two or three years and we're like man He really was that talented and he is this good and he has everything around him to succeed So I think he is probably the most likely on this list from this tier To jump up a tier this time next year I'm looking at some of the other names like Depending on who you talk to jalen hurts is a good elite quarterback Depending on which Philly fan you talk to he's either a good elite quarterback or like get him out of town He's I've um he's somewhere in between at all times what have you done for us lately, you know Superlul MVP did you want to do this year all the sudden we're running four birds and Burn the city to the ground That's exactly when you burn the city to the ground either way that's true It's a really great policy, you know, just just the infrastructure just gone either way destroyed every year Yeah, just just do it I want to have a conversation about one of these names so My homes Herbert Caleb Williams Jackson Dart Jalen Hurts Trevor Lawrence I feel like Jackson Dart is the one of this group. They were like okay, we are still projecting that this is what this player will be Over the coming years and fantasy is the youngest of this group only 23 years old Mike you had a chance to Hang out with him this past weekend to the man before we move to dart I do I want to just quickly touch on my homes. I don't want a deep dive. Okay Of just the difficulty that Patrick my homes presents because like I think everything is still there You know, I've I've should a should the situation arise where my homes gets to do the undertaker gif and return to fantasy football glory. It's all there but Is it Will will that be Asked of him, you know what I mean they They're kind of going that yes, I got they they got Rashid rice, but you know the chiefs and the bills both have been going with this Our quarterback is so good. We don't really have to have an elite playmaker at the wide receiver position And I think it has really hurt them that they that they decided to not be aggressive in that but of Like we he's my homes is that six for me Because honestly, I just I don't know I don't know where which direction on the the sea saw he's gonna fall He's tricky. This is because you know he's I mean an alien like he's so he's so good From an NFL talent perspective and last year for fantasy he was awesome because of the rushing and so The way that I'm kind of looking at this is like what do I think the chiefs offense will look like this year And then what do I think think like what's gonna look like next year And he read is almost seven years old like at some point He's probably moving on soon in the later who knows but he's almost seven I think he's 68 and like he'll be 69 next spring I believe it is like he's almost 70 So it's happening quicker than we'd like And then you look at their moves like they clearly Signed Ken Walker to making I think the fifth highest paid running back on average in salary So clearly that is a huge piece of the puzzle here. He's coming off multi-legament surgery Like I think you're gonna protect him early on and so if you don't get the rushing and you have trevice Kelsey another year older When we still have no clue if Xavier worthy is even good or not and Rishi Rice can't stop doing stupid stuff It's like this chiefs offense could look so different in a year So he's I think he's highly evolved how and I feel like his name carries a lot of weight in dynasty Yes, which is just what I mean because he is that good but To the fantasy points follow in the next couple of years. Yeah It's like he's ranked six should he be ranked six or should he be ranked 16? I I don't know. I don't feel comfortable if I was in a superflex startup to take him I'm looking at our rankings 10th overall. I don't feel comfortable there. I probably wouldn't oh man What a sad world we live in well, I just I think of the Look what they've done to our boy Our top five quarterbacks that we have before him and then I think of the young wider receivers Like I want to take all of those guys ahead of my homes and because he carries the name value I'll let somebody else think that they're getting a value Even in the early second. It's just not how I want to build my team on the wrong side of 30 Yeah, there's more variables at play. Do I want them on my team? Sure, but I don't want to pay the cost to acquire Gotcha. All right, you can move to dark now. All right, let's talk about dark because It was fun. It was really fun last year. It felt like we had we were playing with house money last year Yeah, that's that is a very eloquent way to put it Because I mean there was the highs and lows. Overall, if you would start a dark weekend and week out for fantasy, you're happy more than you're not. But that's the top level is it was fun. The Giants team last year was fun. And now they're a very different team. Are they still fun? - So we started poking holes in the off season, just looking at the Giants, looking at the wind totals, bets, you brought it up to us earlier today, but they're the most bet team for the over on their wind totals of any team in the NFL, which smells a little fishy. The thing about-- - 'Cause they're fun. - Yes, they're super fun. And with John Harball, you think, "Okay, here's an adult in the room." - That's not who I think of when I think of fun. - I think of an adult in the room. He can direct the fun. But the other person they added in the room was Matt Nagy, and that's a conversation. - And that's a fun. - No. He needed to bounce it out. - It's two unfun guys. - No, I mean, that's not a detachment. - But Harball's likeable. - But he's no nonsense. - Harball feels like a dad. - Yeah, that's how he will be-- - They'll be trenches. - We're gonna run the football. We're gonna stay ahead of the chains, keep us on schedule. And if we get to the 48, we'll punt and get field position. That's the vibes that I'm getting from the offense right now. - I don't know if it's that severe, but you think about Uncle Matt, Uncle Matt Nagy. - Oh man. - And it's like, I don't really want him to come over to the family event. I just-- - No. - It stagnates all of the stuff that Dart is best at as a passer and a runner, and they literally give a play car 'cause he's calling the plays, right? It's not Harball. - Yeah. - That's exactly, it's, here comes coach's brother to the picnic, Matt Nagy, about to ruin everything. - Yeah, Mike was doing a little deep dive about Jackson Dart, and we were talking about how good he was when he just got to create last year, when they did no huddle. The giants actually used no huddle a lot. Fourth most in the NFL last year, 20% of the dropbacks. And when Dart used no huddle, it just skyrocketed his yards per attempt. Well, Inter Matt Nagy, who basically doesn't give too far, it's about no huddle, and doesn't really want to throw the ball. And it's scary to me because this was like, Justin Fields, offensive coordinator, his first year. And I think that, he had some fun fantasy moments, right, with Fields, but as an NFL quarterback, it's stunted his growth and really messed long-term. So I wonder with Nagy and Dart as a combination, like, yeah, you're gonna get some rushing upside, but like, is he gonna be capped, where he feels like a player like, oh, he could be quarterback three. I just don't have those feelings. You're doing the space all vibes? No, I, I gave you some numbers, but I've kind of been against Dart this whole season, which last year was all about it. All right, let me give you a vibe check, okay? So we know who the play collar is in Matt Nagy. Do you know the past game coordinator is? Slash quarterbacks coach. Is it someone we don't want, right? It's Brian Kelly. No. G-R-O. G-R-O, Greg Roman. He's on the staff as a senior offensive assistant. So from a surround Jackson Dart with high up, you know, high pace, up 10 points. Wait, wait, did Jim, did Jim negotiate? I'm sure he did. Jim said my buddy Greg, my drinking buddy Greg. He went to his brother. He's like, he's like, someone's gonna take the fall. John, John, you gotta help me out. I gotta fire my guy, G-R-O. And I, we gotta give him a cushy landing. So from that vibe perspective, it's not ideal. And then you throw in the Mleek neighbors recovery for the short term outlook in the first four to eight weeks. Like, you know, it's tough to see it on a, we mentioned that with like Jane Dano's if Terry goes down or with Lamar if they goes down. Like they have Darnamuni, Darius Slay and Calvin Austin, Odebeck and Jalen Hyatt, Braxton Barrios, Judas Miss Shoosters on this team. Like they do not have wider seer talent outside of Mleek neighbors. And sure, Isaiah, luckily, is a fun tight end sleeper this year. But it's like, man, to have that top five type of ceiling outcome happen for you, you need that passing. Like Mike said, I just don't think we're gonna see that this year. So I love Darts profile for fantasy in the game that we play. But like Kyle said, I think there are gonna be some growing pains this year. If you want, I would say you, if you can put stock into it, you can bypass it. I will just present it when we were talking to Skataboo and Dart. You know, we're trying to do the fantasy football questions, which they then they get the PR answer. But we were talking about pass catchers. And the only name that came up was Isaiah, likely. You know, like he could, Dart could have gone to bat for this. He like, Hey, while we wait for neighbors, you know, we got Slayton, we got to, no one got mentioned, except for Isaiah, like, he doesn't know of any of these wide receivers are going to make their roster. And on top of that, he said, he's like, you know, we got Isaiah. And it was, oh, I need to go back. It's almost like he forgot his last name. He did pause. I did see right now. I saw it. I think maybe him bringing him up was a bad thing. I don't know. Just we got. I'm gonna spend that. What's the last name? Yeah, what H.R. They introduced him to me. Yeah. No, I say it likely. Yeah. What a, what a bunch of random pass catchers that have them do the same thing. Calvin Austin, Darnell Mooney are the exact same player, by the way. They're the same dude. Jalen Hyatt poor guy, poor one out. Um, so last little valuation question on Jackson, because we have him ranked as a quarterback one. Barrios. Yeah, they're Braxton, Barrios. We have him ranked as a quarterback one. Would you feel comfortable in a super flex with Jackson, Dart being your quarterback? One. No. Close. Close and it could, we can flip real easy to that's a 100% yes. But at this moment of time of the market based game, I would say no. Yeah. I'm there with you. And it's also, you know, we have startup rankings. If you're doing a startup draft tomorrow, this is what our start rankings say. There's also the difference of if you drafted Jackson, Dart last year, you were not drafting him likely to be your quarterback one for your team. Oh, if you've gone as your quarterback to, you were simply at that. I mean, that is, yeah, you know, now we're feeling it. Yeah, that's, that's a good way to like phrase it for people's like, Hey, just like realize what he is. We're not telling you to trade him away. We're not saying he's bad. We're just bringing up some red flags about this year and red flags about Matt Nagy, because we've had them for almost a decade. If we're honest, these dudes just keep getting jobs. They know people. That's what G. Road is. And I know people Greg Roman. I hate it. Greg Roman's there. All right. Let's hit quick break. Talk about a couple more tears. All right. On to tier four, which is quarterback 12 and 13. It's a pretty small tier. I'm calling it the tiny tier of 26 year old quarterbacks. It's just bone X and Brock party. Okay. Who I like both of these quarterbacks. I like where we have them ranked. I would be very happy to have them as my quarterback too, because they're at the age. They're part of winning teams. They just feel like good safe quarterbacks. Like I don't have a ton to say about their skills. I don't know what their ceiling outcome actually is. Like I don't know if either of these guys could be top five in a season. But I like their situations. I like actually the upgrade for bone X that Sean Payton's out of the way. And hopefully Davis Webb calls some stuff. But both of these quarterbacks, if you have them in a super flex, like you should feel very strong about them bets. And he thoughts on Boer Brock. I think Brock is one of my favorite undervalued QB1 candidates. You're in and you're out. I mean, I'm with you. I'm sure I think he was, I have to go back and double check this. But I'm pretty sure he was top five in fantasy points for dropback, even though it was a frustrating season where he had all the injuries and stuff. Like on a per dropback basis, he's always up there with the best in the league, which is, you know, for him, we don't picture him as like a prolific rush. But he will run at the goal line too. So you're getting kind of an underrated Russian profile here with Brock. Hurdy, we know the efficiency in the scheme will be there as long as Kyle Shanahan is a play collar. So I love Brock. Pretty like when you can go, you know, elite skill position player in round one of a startup, and then maybe get like two of these guys in kind of this, this year and the next year, like the next couple rounds, like that feels like an awesome start to lay the foundation for a team. So I of course would love all the quarterbacks ahead of these guys. But if you're talking about like, give me a guy that's a quarterback to start up ADP, that will finish inside the top 12. I think Brock. Hurdy has to get the top of the list. Yeah. I'm in complete agreement. The way I look at it is like I want. I mean, you always want pieces of Kyle Shanahan's offense. Like it's historically that has been a very strong bet. And then when he finds the right match, and then that player has been given some experience for it, you get, you absolutely get production. You know, never forget I just lost the the stat mark. But there's a one Matt Ryan Kyle. You may be aware of who Matt Ryan is. 4,944 yards, 38 touchdowns. Like now that team had a Julio there. I don't think the 49ers have a Julio on the roster. But you have a I think an interesting conglomeration of you know the the end near near is end. Wait, end is near. There we go. Head a little backwards of Mike Evans. Same is said for for George Kittle. And then does one of pier saw or struggling. Work out because if one of those two players works out. I think the Brock Purtie has a ceiling season in there somewhere. It's kind of like he can be the sum of all the parts of the offense. And at the end of the day you look up and it's like this guy. I mean he was in the MVP conversation two years ago. Right at the very end and the Lamar took it from him. But yeah, he just feels solid and. And Bonix was in the third tier last year. So he actually dropped down a little bit, but I still feel fine about his overall outlook and adding Jalen Waldo helps me. Like feel so much better about his outlook and and where he's going. So stable guys there. The next tier is tier five and I'm just calling him undervalued because Dak Prescott and Jordan love. Are two really good quarterbacks. I think that's like the main thing that I want to say is I actually think they're good at the game. Love's issue is he just doesn't have the same volume that Dak has. He's just hyper efficient. And that's kind of the question. I know Betts you've been doing a deep dive on every single team. You just put it out of training camp article monster one. Is Matt a floor going to actually let this guy throw because they were 28th and past rate last year. And that just continues to like kill let love cook baby for real. Yeah, I think that's the thing you need you need him to be pushed. You know, and like when he is dropping back to pass. He's one of the most efficient in the league. You have Tucker craft you have Christian Watson to guys that have been so efficient on a parrots basis. You have that the only variable that I'll say that I could see La Flora being like no, no, no, we're not going to leash him is if golden flops and read can't play into it or to your presets. Then you almost have to be a conservative run first efficiency type offense. But at the same time, I think the Packers defense could have some struggles this year like the loser defense coordinator Michael Parsons is coming off a late season ACL injury. I think there's an outcome here where Jordan loves surprise a lot of people. I know a couple years ago. You had that really prolific fantasy season. I think another one of those is coming in the somewhat near future. But it's just hard to predict. So this is kind of why these guys fall into this tier for us where it's like. You know, there are top 12 outcomes that will will happen. They're hard to predict. And so you feel so much better about these guys is your quarterback two or three if you're your top heavy there that you can plug them in the right matchup and you'll get numbers. But yeah, we do need Matt will Florida kind of unleash him here to have that that true ceiling. I kind of like builds. If you're doing a startup. Let's say you get one of the elites. Then you can get to the third round and find one of these guys your QB two and just and just crush it. So I think Dac and love are going to end up staying here though. That's like the problem is like I have a hard time elevating them. Dac because of his age love because like I feel like the offense is. Doesn't want to be high flying like I will it will it ever be he will he see 600 pass attempts. Probably not that sucks. That sucks because he could crush I think it's it's a good place to have love because there's the there is a chance that. The offense shifts these things do happen and then Dac you just you can't rank him higher and when you're talking start up because he's 33 years old. You know I mean. Dac I bet I bet Dac can play at a high level for at least four more years if he wants to and that's the direction that the cowboys choose to go so he is. Super undervalued for what he could what he could actually represent to you to yeah if you're a contender and you want to get a QB two to take you over the top Dac to me is that guy this year that won't cost you an arm and a leg and like like if you have my homes you can get Dac plus plus if you trade away my homes and if as a contender like I would be really interested in doing that. So yeah I think we all agree Dac is one of those undervalued guys even though he is 33 years old and when you see it and I start up you don't love that but if you are competing this year he's a target for me. All right let's do one more tier I'm calling this one shot calling play callers. Okay because you kind of have to shoot your shot on what you think is going to happen with these teams is Fernando Mendoza with the Raiders and Kubiac his Tyler Shuck the science and Kellan more. And then Baker may field with Zach Robinson and I don't and it doesn't feel great when I say Kellan more in Kubiac and then I throw in Robinson. He just feels like a step down but I think we all think Baker can be better than what he was last year. Yeah well the injuries being released by Baker may field source source the source was a really good reliable one. It's funny we have him here I think you know fantasy players and NFL players and like NFL teams are just not 100% sure what to do with Baker like the fact that we are where we are today of this recording where an extension has not been given and it seemed like that was in and that was just inevitable you know before the beginning of last year is I. So man I wonder what the Baker contract extension is going to look like and now you're you're one more year if you get beat up again and plays bad. Tampa could easily just say no we don't want to keep doing this we're going to do a full reset you know and thank you for your service and then Baker has to go find another starting opportunity which he may or not be able to do. Yeah that's fair and until you get that contract I think you're going to have those question marks so he is tough but I think we all agree the outlook for the bucks this year from a health perspective will be way better like Baker was hurt the offensive line with shuffling all season you had Mike Evans miss a huge chunk of the season obviously he's gone but Chris gobbin was injured the entire season last year. Jellemick million miss half the year like the list goes on on bucket year being like their offense wasn't shambles all year and they're just trying to piece it together and we saw them kind of faults are done a stretch they're one of those teams that I think could. Remind us about good they are but I know Kyle puts some you know negative connotation on Zach Robinson I don't know I'm I don't know how to think about him like I was encouraged by some of the stuff he did with like Drake London in the red zone with the movement of the slot and just kind of creates a mismatches but. Yeah I think the book is still out on him so we'll see yeah I think when I look at this tier Mendoza Shuck may feel. It's hard for me to paint a picture that Baker like. Recaptures the same magic that he had before and and so he feels you know stable to we'll see what he is a year from now I look at Mendoza and Shuck oh man those guys could like jump to tears a year from now like it's yes and with Shuck I think we're all. In on how he plays the game and Kellin more as the play collar the pace of play like that I love that style play I was going to the exercise in the dose of like okay I don't know how many starts he's going to get. Number one picks usually get starts by week four that's like the you know the going rate. But like what I need him to do to jump it here is like this team to win seven games or let's say Mendoza jumps in the end of the season he wins. Four of his final seven starts something like that and this team is exciting and we love Clint Kubiak. Is he going to run the way that Shuck's going to run though and I would say probably not as a rookie they're probably just going to protect him give him some easy stuff but like Shuck could continue to run at a rate where he's like 400 yards a year 500 yards a year and that's like wild. High end outcomes Reca end up being more than just a cubie one. Shuck is. Shucks an offensive line away from I would I was everything I have I would just shove it in the middle of the table if you put Shuck on the box instead of Baker. Because they bucks have a good offense line. Right. Yeah but I like like the way I like Olava and Tyson more okay and I like Olava is going to get an extension he's going to be on the Saints for the duration of the Jordan Tyson. And he's going to be on the next one years on the rookie contract. So yeah you see few I Tampa does have a very strong offensive line and it's not that the Saints is is bad but it's just more in the middle where if it wasn't a lead offensive line. He would be ranked so high for me. Yeah I'm not sure if you saw Mike Brandon Thorn he does a lot of offensive line work he's one of the best in the business he just came out with his rankings. He's higher than consensus on the Saints offensive line he had him in the top 10 this year so okay. You're talking about pushing the chips all in. Let me get the chips ready. It's it's a fun place to be in when you add a top 10 pick a wider seabour. It's one thing when we're talking about Olava and he has this monster into the year run we get finally gets the long touchdowns. It's like okay fine this is the Olava we all thought. Then you add in somebody that I think Tyson is like and I've always been a lot of you I think Tyson is more talented than a lobby and has a higher ceiling long term in the NFL like. I want this defense to be bad I want this team to just have to chuck it you know him to throw it 35 40 times a game that's probably not going to happen. They're they're a solid defense is how I see it going into this year. the running back position. It's never been higher than like 22nd league and target share. So like, if they get a condensed target share of just Tyson, a love a Tyson, a love a, then you transform, you transform into an offense that can just roll like the bingles or like the cowboys. You have two elite white receivers and you just see what can happen. So if, if Shuck is the engine of that, what's his ceiling this year? Put a number on it. 26, Tyler Shuck, what's the highest outcome for him? I won't go super hot. Take you so I'll say top seven. I was going to say it. I was going to say six. All right. There you go. Six, eight. It's top five. It's you. We're back. Yeah. It's basically going to see which of us actually was more bullish on the player. It's the, it's top five. Yeah. One, one, one on one on startups. Right. That's clear. We heard you heard you. Mike. All right. That's going to do it for our quarterback rankings. Make sure you head on to ultimate draft kid.com. And you can see all of those rankings before you. We'll see you again next week. Goodbye, everybody. Thanks for listening to the fantasy footmuller's dynasty podcast. If you want to take your dynasty skills to the next level, check out the fantasy footballers.com.