Dean and Family

Hello and welcome to It's a Dean thing, the podcast that deeply delves into the fictional character Dean Winchester from Supernatural. Where your hosts are in? Paula. And Susie, we will be going season by season to discuss all aspects of Dean's psychology and relationships and how that changes or stays the same throughout the seasons. Now a disclaimer. First and foremost, we are Dean fans and as such, we will defend him above all others. We are also highly critical of other characters that you may love like Saint-Am, John and Mary. But we promise to provide an engaging and fun podcast, inviting thoughtful and interesting discussions. So put on your favorite plan, cut a slice of pie, and join us for this fun ride. Hello, welcome to another episode, edition, episode, whatever it is. Of It's a Dean thing. Off to a great start. I'm Paula. Join by my lovely co-host, Erin and Susie. This week we're going to be talking about Dean and family. But before we get into that, we've got a little bit of fandom news that we can talk about. First up, San Diego Comic Con just happened as of this recording a couple of weeks ago. And the biggest news out of that for Jensen was he's going to play a bigger part on the boys season five, which hasn't started filming yet. I don't think that's coming out until is it 2026? That's coming out. Yeah, they haven't even. They're just starting to write it. So it's not even close. Yeah, it's going to be a while. But he's going to be very busy anyway because he's doing that. I think we've already talked about he's doing tracker for Amazon. And then he's also doing a prequel for the boys called Vat Rising with I don't remember the actress's name, but I know she was also in he was. Joshua been scared me. And yes, remember her name right now is really annoying. I a cash. I a cash. Yes, thank you. So they will be they will be doing a prequel set in the 1950s. The rise of the Vat Corporation and the super the soups. So that'll be interesting. Do either of you have any any other news? Well, just my thoughts on that just I'm not a fan of this past season of the boys. So I'm kind of like it's kind of annoying that they're doing this at the same time. I'm excited about it. But yes, it's annoying only because I because I like like okay, the boys will be done after season five supposedly. Hopefully. Hopefully. We'll see. I mean, who knows, you know, but but I'm excited for Jensen to be so busy. You know, I know I know there's certain parts of the fandom that we're saying he was never he was just going to spend his whole life doing convention and nothing wrong with that. But I think it's funny because now they are incredible now he is incredibly busy and like really busy. So yeah, I just I want to see him do movies though. I will be quite frank. I am I'm excited for all the Jensen content. But I would like him to get into something a little bit away from genre work. Yeah, to be frank. To be frank, I'm a tight cast at this point in yes, I kind of want him out of that, but that's just me that's because I'm a I'm a film geek and I just would like to see him do some films. Yeah, because I know he's got he's got a really good range. He's an excellent actor and anything you put him in, he will do really well in. Yeah, like I love to see him in a rom call. Yes, like yes, absolutely. Let's make a movie where and this is my own silly little fantasy, but let's make him a baker with a heart of gold or something. You know, him in a funnel apron, pulling like muffins out of an oven, making sure that they think that they baked right or something. He's piping like decorations on a cake or I don't know. Then he has to like, thought the heart of love a business person or something. Just give me something like Kitchie and cute and fun. They it would be great. You would them over with like his treats. Like yeah, I'm here for it. Or like we keep saying like one thing that I would be excited about for the granted I'm not. I think I'm the only person here that doesn't watch the boys. I think I saw the first season. I got like halfway through the first season and then just that, you know, it's not for me, but I'm very happy that a lot of other people like it, like good for y'all. It is definitely not for everybody for sure. Yeah. So like one thing that I would be excited to see like maybe I won't watch it, but I will look at the stills and stuff will be what they dress him in. Listen, it's going to be like 50s. I'm like, ooh, Jensen and see. Yes, please. Didn't you say that Paula the other day you were telling me that? I think you said that the other day. I think when we might have been recording the season four episode for the It's a Fan of Thing Patreon, where we are talking about how much we didn't like season four. I think we talked a little bit. Yeah, but we didn't know about the spin off at that time. No, we didn't. No, we didn't. So I don't know when it was, but I know we were talking about that. You mentioned the suits thing. So that's why I just thought of that because I remember mentioning it, but I don't remember where we were or what we were when we I don't remember when we were talking about it, but I do remember. We were talking about it. But yes, Jensen and a good suit is always a win for everybody. Oh, it is. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Good stuff. But yes, let this man branch out to other things that would be amazing. Yes. Please. You know, we could mention, and my and without dragging anybody without like insulting the person who ended up doing this because accidents can happen. But at the creation, Austin convention, when they had the additional Jensen 30 minute meet and greet and there was a bidding war that happened for just this one ticket that ended up selling for $6,650. This is usually it's like a thousand on average or something like that. And this is like, wow. I love Jensen, but never in a million years. I mean, I'd have to be spending a whole day weekend alone. Yeah, exactly. That would be that's like dinner and lunch. You know, it's like, you know, at least that's a. And like, hey, that's like, that's you. It was like, you win that and you just come up and go, right, Jensen, your mind for the day. And then we're going to get breakey together and then we're going to go do some spooky shopping because it's the season. And then we're going to go get lunch and then we're going to have to a fun dinner and then we're going to do karaoke and then we're going to have a sleepover. Yeah. I was going to say that's at least a day if not a whole weekend. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think what happened was the original auction, one of the seats wasn't they weren't able to pay for it or whatever. So they had to re sell that seat and then the bidding were happened and we're just like, that had to have been a mistake. Apparently not. I'm sorry, but I don't know if anybody is worth that much money. One a lot of people were thinking they might have gotten confused and thought it was a private 30 minute meet and greet. Oh, we still possibly a lot of money. And I mean, I'm not. No, these are private. These are which we're going to see is it was so part of like the group ones that they do. Yeah. Yeah. They don't do private. I didn't. Great. But pay a grand for like if you're with a ton of other people. Grenadier, I don't know how much to go for because I refuse to pay creation price. I'm up. And it's also not because I broke. Well, like I'm going to the well by the time this dropped the in Annapolis one will just wrapped up kind of thing. But I want I was trying to get the meet and greet for that. And because it's so close to Austin, the prices were kept so low. It was such a bummer though because it was at 300 is what it starts out at and it stayed at 300 until the last two hours. And then a couple people in there, but it only went to like 501, which is low. And everybody was like everybody in the Facebook group is like, I want to just applaud this group for keeping this auction so low because you could keep these low people. And I and the way it missed out is I kept upping the bid when I'd be out bid. And then like it was like two seconds that I didn't have a chance to put in the bid. And now there are two tickets available in comparison. There are two tickets now that were up for grabs now because somebody didn't make a payment is really how that works. And there's 17 hours left and there are 10 bids and it's at $700 right now. I decided not to do that. I'm like, I'm not paying that much for I had a cap and it was below this. So I'm like, no, it's not worth it to me. Maybe someday I'll do that. But you compare that 700. $100 and granted it could go up more. But compare that to this, but I doubt it's gonna go to the 6000. I just want to know who out here has 6000 to throw. Credit cards, probably credit cards. And I want to say I don't think, because I know a lot of us talk about how, who has this money to pay? I have heard stories of people mortgaging their houses, taking out loans to go to conventions. So it's actually kind of a bigger issue, I think, that people just get so wrapped up in it that they don't have the money. But they put themselves in debt in order to go. You know, I'm just like, well, I'll just, and everybody's gonna end up calling me hypocrite. I understand. But I want to get a picture with baby. So I do think I'm going instead of doing that. I'm gonna do the picture with Jensen and Jared and baby. I know. Call me hypocrite, I understand. I already have that picture. I had it done and I don't regret it. I mean, it was a fun picture and it happens with ads. And I mean, it's kind of, because I mean, you had Sam Andean in the show. So, you know, having Sam Andean with the car is not, you know, it's fine. And I'm not going to do anything rude with Jared. I wouldn't do that. No, I'm not going to do anything rude with Jared. That would be absolutely horrible to do, honestly. And I don't, that would be wrong. Frankly, I don't think you should buy a photo op and do something rude to the celebrity. No. Why would you spend your money on something? You don't like to do something like that anyway? I mean, that just doesn't make sense to me. But I mean, I've done photo ops with Jared before. He is fun at cons, you know, as much as I don't necessarily like to care that much and all that. And that's the thing. People can spend their money the way they work. Like, I don't know if we mentioned this here before. If we've talked about the salesman of the people that get kind of like photo ops with like a big group of the cast and then they explicitly tell members that they don't really care for their like, oh, I didn't get this for you. I want to just with them, but you just happen to be here. So I guess you're in the picture now. And it's like, you don't tell someone that that is so rude. Like, it doesn't look like a telling for them. That's fine. Like, you don't need to just go around and kind of be in a jerk. Just like, oh, I don't necessarily care for this person, but you're going to be in this picture. So you know what? We're going to make the best of it. But you don't really like exactly. Exactly. Like, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. That's just rude. I never did understand that. Right. Yeah, because my idea for the photo, it will have already happened. But it's not this drop. So I'm feel fine saying this. But my idea for the photo is just having Jensen's arm around me, my hand out and him dropping the keys to the Impala to the Impala quote unquote, I use some keys and a look of like total annoyance on Jared's face. And I think that's a fun picture. And that to me is not anything against Jared or Sam. It's just more like seriously, you don't let me drive the car, but you're going to let this person drive the car. Exactly. It's that. Yeah, it's that exact. It's that thing. And that would be what I would say. I'd say you just get aggravated because how could he let me drive the car. Yeah. And I've seen I've seen a couple other people do that up. And it's it's a fun, cute, up. I think that's a great idea. That's fun. Thank you. Yeah. So I have one other thing that I just found before we started recording. So there's an article on collider about the 10 most written about characters and fan fiction. Surprisingly, the supernatural characters are not the number one. That would be Harry Potter. But you know, Dean Winchester is the third most written about character and fan fiction with 242,531 fan fictions. It's shipped with Castiel, obviously, with 166,672 shipping fan fictions. Sam's also on this list at number five with 190,396 fan fictions. And Castiel is on the list as well at number eight with 166,900. So all three of those guys are in the top 10 of the most written fan fiction characters or characters in fan fictions. I thought that was kind of fun. Yeah. So we said, like, would you say to like Harry Potter was number one? Harry Potter was number one and Tony Stark was number two. Stark? Yeah, that doesn't surprise me actually. There's a lot of Tony Stark out there. I did see some. I remember when the Avengers came out, it was kind of like the first, it was the first way of first gen, whatever before they got into the rest of the Avengers. Yeah. I'm not in the fandom anymore. So I don't know. But when the first Avengers movie came out, there was a lot. I saw a lot of Tony Stark, Captain America fan fiction. That's a, that's a, he's the, yeah, Tony and Steve are the most shipped of those characters with like a hundred dollars. Yeah. And then later I saw him get shipped with Dr. Strange after Civil War. Interesting. Happened. And yeah, it was, it was funny. Because I remember being in this one, in this one group chat for something rather, I think it was Marvel related. And someone shared a fan fiction where it was a divorce Tony Stark and Captain America who had adopted slash raised, but Peter Parker together. And then Tony Stark got remarried to Dr. Strange. And so they all three co-parented this baby. Three minutes. Yeah, we pretty much. I don't remember the name of the fan fiction though, but I do. It's funny because I don't remember the names of the fan fictions, but I remember the way they're like, plot points like really well. So sometimes it's just, okay, I'm going to write this description and then maybe the fan fiction I'm looking for will pop up. So that's, that's what I had for fandom use if there's anything else you'll had. Yeah. Well, the only thing that I haven't read, we shared it in our group chat was that there was creation and an announcement where they had like a moose holding lobster. And we were all wondering what it was. Yeah. The announcement was Jared for Boston, I think, creation. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I got excited for a second because I was like, well, maybe they're announcing more locations and I was like, yeah, every time you see the moose, it's just an announcing, that's what happened with Indianapolis as he was an orange thing. I know. And then they had a picture of the moose. And I guess it was the skyline for Indianapolis. I've never been to Indianapolis. Well, by the time you hear this, I will have been. And so everyone's like, oh, that's Indianapolis. So then he got announced for that. I think he's going to end up being on probably. Probably. Yeah. It's probably like, that's what's kind of happening is that it's just probably like last minute, like, oh, I can do this now and then get announced for the thing. But I really hope that when they announce, if they ever do a Denver one again, and if they announced it again, I would love it if they did it where it's the moose and the squirrel, but they're writing Lucifer, that would be fun. So any creation artist, if you want to use that for your little announcement poster, feel free. That's a freebie. I start using artists too. It's all by the way. Start using artists. Yes. Start using artists. Artists are artists. She's got some great artists in the fandom. Or how about her? How about her amazing fandom artists? Draw that for us. And one of us will get it signed. Oh, yeah. Someone could do that. That would be great. I like that. I would totally get that signed. That would be amazing. I would love to get like Lucifer, Lucifer and Lucifer and squirrel. That would be so great. Yeah. Right. Anyway, so I guess we're going to talk about Dean and family now. So I want to know what do you think family means to Dean? Nothing. And we're done. We'll be back next time. No, back next week for other things. No. I mean, of course, family is everything to Dean. Family is the only thing that matters to Dean. Everything he does is for family. His whole life has revolved around his family. Family is like above everything. But there's also, and I'm sure we'll get into this. But season two, it's not so much there yet, as far as like his high standards for his family. I don't think are there necessarily. But family is family means home. Family means life. Family means love. Family means God almost, you know? Family is just like Dean's universe. So yeah, I put it very simply. That's kind of what I think. Yeah, I think it is pretty simple for Dean. Excuse me, what do you think? Yeah, I think family for Dean is everything. Because as we've seen it time and time again and in the past and like during season two and then even going forward, it means a great deal to him. And especially if it's also his chosen family too, which means a lot because there's even stuff he says later on where I forget which season it was where he says like family doesn't end in blood, but it doesn't start there either. And we've all. We've all said this before and again, we'll say it again. He is a very empathetic person. And when you become gains family, when he considers you family, I think that something very important because that means that he will love you and he will try to protect you and be there for you as best as he can. And I think that's just, it's just really sweet of him to do. Yeah, definitely. I agree. I think for Dean family is home. I also think it's trust and loyalty. I think it's a big part of that for him as well. And again, I don't think it is as prevalent in the first couple of seasons. And I know we'll talk about this a lot more in depth later when some more characters come in. But he's even said later on in the series. I think when he was talking in Crowley is, family is the people that are there that have your back no matter what, they don't try to get anything from you, they're there to help you. And yeah, I think mostly family just is what is home for Dean. Moving on from that, do you think the people that he considers family, do you think that's something that he like constantly chooses as he's selective about that or is that just something that kind of happens organically for him? Or do you think, is there anything specifically that kind of like ties all those people together for him as family? I think he is picky about it because I think as far as letting new people in to his circle, I mean, that's why like they didn't really ever hang out with other hunters until like this season really, until season two. I mean, there were certain stories that you learn later on. But for the most part, it was like pretty much, he was insulated in this bubble of his brother and his father. And so that was his family. And of course, the ever present ghost of his mom. And so I think for Dean to let anybody else into that fold, like meeting Ellen and Joe this season and then Bobby being a little bit more involved in the season two, I think is a very big test for Dean and trust because Dean, once he trusts you, he trusts you and he has your back and once you're part of that fold and part of the family that he will do anything in the world for you. He will kill for you. He will throw himself in front of a bullet for you. He will do anything for you. But it takes you, except for he would not choose you over his brother to be honest. I mean, we just have to face that no matter what. It's the truth. That's a universal constant for Dean. Exactly, yeah. There's no denying that. And it's just it's part of his DNA. And so I think because of that, because of how sacred family is to Dean and how much it means to him, I think that's why he's pickier about it. He's pickier about who he's gonna open up to. Like when they're trying to find the L.O.I. Dean in throughout season two, he wants the help of Ellen and Joe and Ash and everything. But he's a little bit hesitant to do that because Bobby is fine because they've known Bobby for a long time. But even though Ellen knew John, you know, Dean and Sam didn't know Ellen. And of course originally it was gonna be Joe was actually going to be their sister was the original plan, which would have been, you know, on one of our what-ifs we should. (laughs) We should talk about that. But I so I think he does choose who he considers. And I think what makes someone become family for Dean is, well, number one, if they do anything that helps his brother in any way, if they treat his brother like family, I think Dean will usually be more apt to trust them. I think also if it feels like they have the same love for family. And that's why I think, honestly, I think that's why Ellen becomes almost like a surrogate mom. Just like Bobby is a surrogate dad. And I think that's because Ellen has the same kind of feeling on family I think that Dean does with Joe. And a lot of that is because her husband died and all of that. It's the same kind of thing, you know, except for she's trying to keep Joe out of hunting instead of pushing her into hunting. So if that makes sense, I think it's just, I think Dean chooses people that he feels share the same kind of values as him. Now through the seasons, this changes. I'm going off of season two because I think this changes because they let people into the fold that they wouldn't have led into the fold at this point in time. There's no way he would have ever sat there with Crowley in season 10. And when he had that conversation that wouldn't happen in season two, that just wouldn't happen. But I think that's because Dean changes what he learns about family because I think actually in season two, I think family to Dean at this point is actually just blood. And then I think he learns through season two and through Bobby is the first inkling of that. And also Ellen, he learns that family doesn't, isn't just blood. He learns that saying through Bobby. Bobby is, I mean, Bobby's one of her says that to him. And Bobby is the one I think that really is like the gateway to Dean realizing that family doesn't have to just be your brother and your dad and your mom. And then he also learns the hard way going on, that family, when it's blood, doesn't always mean they're going to be there for you, like the Campbell's. So it's this whole ongoing thing with Dean where he learns that family is what you make of it. Family is chosen. And while Sam will always, Sam, John and Mary will always be family no matter what. The other people that he lets in, he's selective about because he wants to make sure they hold that same value that you treat family fairly, that you put their needs above your own, that you have an equal, that you're both there for each other, that you both help each other, that you both can give each other a hard time, but no one in the day that you love each other kind of things. So yeah, Seizzy. Like in this season, I think he is very, he is true to you about who you consider family because as a hunter, you kind of just have to, you have to be careful who you can trust because you don't know if they're going to, if they're going to be a civilian that's maybe not going to be around for a long time, or if they're someone who's going to do you harm in any way, or if they even might be one of the creatures that they're hunting that's just really what disguise, so you have to be really careful. And even when he meets Ellen, Joe and Ash, he is very, he's like, he's kind of standoffish towards him because he's just fresh off the loss of his father. So the only family that he sees that he has at that moment is Sam because to him, that's his only blood relative that's left for him. That's his only concrete family. And so throughout this season, we see him kind of grow a little bit more and more and more to Ellen and Joe and Ash and start seeing that kind of, like Aaron said that family doesn't just have to be biological. You can extend that to people outside of that and you can extend kind of that trust and that love to others and kind of welcome them kind of into your full, so to speak. And the thing that I think ties kind of all of them together mostly is the fact that they're all hunters. They all know what they're doing and they have this understanding of the quote-unquote profession that we're in isn't one that's necessarily made for retirement and we have to either for each other when we can and help each other when we can. 'Cause if we don't, one of those creepy crawlies is gonna get us and then we're just gone. So there has to be also, I think, an extension of trust that knowing that whoever you invite into the fold is also gonna have your back against whatever you guys are gonna be up against too. So I think is something that he probably has to consider like anytime he's like, okay, I'm gonna trust you. But also, do I trust that you will have not only my back but also my little brothers who we've all said before, it's like he's the world to Dean. Like there is no world where Dean picks someone else over Sam. Like that's always gonna be like, Sammy is number one because that's someone that he spent most of his life taking care of and caring for. So of course, in being a certain parent for. And so of course, it's gonna take like a higher degree of importance but it's still, it's interesting to see this season how he just kind of starts to open up a little bit more to other people and like, okay, you could also be family. And yes, he mainly sticks to humans and then it expands to other possibly nonhuman entities that also become family as well. - Yeah, it's interesting because we're, We're so used to, you know, we've got 15 seasons as a show and later on, you know, it's easy to be like, oh yeah, these people are all considered family to them. But in the first couple of season, well, in the first season, it's just John and Sam. And in the second season, you know, John's gone. He still has Sam. And we're still used to bobby being such an integral part of their lives. But at this point, they hadn't seen bobby for years. So he wasn't that established father figure that we think of him as for them. And this is where he's, like you said, Aaron, this is where that's kind of all being established where, you know, bobby's kind of teaching them, you know, that family is more than just the people that you were born to. It's the people around you that care about you and that love you and that are there for you no matter what. And I don't think this early, I don't think necessarily that Dean's viewing even bobby, you know, and Ellen and Joe and Ash as family yet. And unfortunately, you know, we lose Ash at the end of the season. So I don't ever think he really kind of gets elevated to that point. To that point. But you kind of see the beginnings of it. I think kind of another, the fighting factor for Dean and family is there's kind of a commonality between all of them. They're either, they've either suffered loss like he has, you know, bobby suffered the same kind of loss, you know, Ellen and Joe, they lost, they lost Bill, Bobby lost his wife. So they understand that loss. And then, you know, later on you get characters like Claire and Charlie where they either have also lost somebody or they've been kind of pulled into hunting along with them. And I think those kind of characteristics are also something that kind of bind them all together as family as well because they all understand the loss, they understand the hunting. So I think all those kind of characteristics. But it's just, it's interesting as we're going back and watching this from the beginning and really kind of analyzing it to see how these relationships are starting to form because again, we're so used to them just being there. Now going back and looking at it, it's like, oh yeah, this is, this is where it's starting and this is, you know, we're kind of seeing all that form and it's, it's interesting to, to see all of that. I, because they never really paid attention to it before, which is something I'm really liking about doing this podcast is because it's giving me a reason to really kind of analyze things and look at it more and understand it a little better. So going out from that, do you think, see how do I want to say this? You think the Dean feels kind of more responsibility for those people than he does for, for anybody else? I'm sure that's the best way to put that, but yeah. No, yeah, that makes sense. Like, because I think for Dean, it's like family, everyday people to say from the monsters and then everybody else is below that. Yeah, family is number one in everything because everything, the reason Dean does anything he does is for family. I mean, that's the main reason. There's also, I think, and maybe some people talk about this, there is also, I think, the hero complex in there too. And I think Dean does have that. So I think there's part of that too. But for Dean, you know, it is, it's family above everything. Everything he does is linked back to that. It's linked, it's also, of course, eventually when he's eventually told this in season 15, all of it also is for love. But I think that for him, love is family. And so everything he does is for family. Like every monster he kills is so that there'll be one less one out there so that someone else won't lose a mother because family won't lose a brother, won't lose a father. That kind of thing. And everything is rooted in family elements and like community and like I said, family is love for him. But I do want to say, I do think Dean still like wants to save people. He wants to still save strangers and everything. And he, I think that's where a little bit of the hero complex comes in. But I also think a lot of that is family. Like I said, because I think he would not be in hunting if it wasn't for family. He would not be doing this if it wasn't for the loss of his mother. And then of course, what his father got them into. But I think that's a lot of what it, why Dean still wants to do it because he knows what it's like to be that little boy who loses your part of your family at such a young age because of what's hiding underneath your bed kind of thing. And so I think for Dean, everything he does is motivated by family and he'll do more for his family. People sacrifice everything for his family. I mean, there is a hierarchy to that. Of course, like we've said, Sam above everybody. And I do, I do want to say really quickly because I do think Sam and Dean's relationship is unhealthy. And I think there's no denying even people that love their relationship will tell you that it is their set toxic codispendency. And it's not as bad in season two still. I mean, it's kind of getting there and it's not as bad. But I do want to say. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the fact that Dean loves his brother and wants to protect his brother and wants to save his brother. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I think it's actually really beautiful. And I want to say, I may give Sam a hard time, but Sam is exactly the same way. Sam, Dean is above everything for Sam too. It's not just a one way street when it comes to this, honestly. I'm not saying there aren't times when Sam is a little more selfish because he's the younger brother or when Sam doesn't do things that are like really annoying to me, especially later seasons. But still, it's, you know, it's their each other's weakness. So it's like, you know, like how Sam says to Dean at the very end of season two, because, you know, Sam's upset that Dean made that deal with the demon. And Dean's like, well, it's you. Of course, I made that deal. You know, I have to have my brother survive. That's his whole thing. That right there puts it out, you know, flashing red, flashing neon sign that family, especially Sam is number one in Dean's life. And then Sam basically saying to Dean, well, well, now I've got to do the same thing. You know, what do you mean? Well, of course, I've got to do the same thing. You're always saving me. I've got to help save you. And for Dean, that's a shock because to Dean, he thinks it's just his job to save everybody and it doesn't have to be Sam's, especially to save himself. In fact, he doesn't think anyone should have that job. And so to hear it back from Sam, I think it's one of the first times from, I'm talking blood family here because of course, Bobby, blood family though. I think that's one of the first times Dean has ever heard that. And really, because you see the look on his face of shock. And that's why I say Sam feels the same way. Yes, it's expressed in different ways, but I honestly think they are each other's weakness. They are each other's, you know, great loves. And I don't mean this in a romantic way. Everybody, they are each other's great loves. It's, it's, it is a love story about Sam and Dean. It is. And I'm not saying that in the romantic sense, but there is the love there, the deep family familiar love. And I feel like I got off track there, but I think that that's why for Dean, he will do anything for family because that to him is the purest form of love is actually being family and actually having each other's back and doing things for each other. That is the purest form of love. And it's something he's always sought out because I think for Dean, he had that pure form of love with his mom, the mythical sense of his mom, not the real mom, not the real Mary, but in his mind, the four year old brain mind of his mom who could do no wrong and was a perfect, perfect being. And so that to him encompasses what family is is that beautiful light that will do anything for you and that's pure and all good and nothing, yucky and nothing made of all these horrible things. And then of course, that changes. So I think that's why Dean puts family above everything because if you fit into that for him, which Sam does and John does at this point and then Bobby ends up doing that and then Ellen and Joe are on the edges of that at this point. Do you do anything for that to to to salvage that and to protect that? So yeah. I'm not a Winceshit for it, promise. No, no, no, it makes perfect sense. It's not a romantic love. It's a familial love and that that type of love can be there's different types of love and that can be just as strong of a love without the icky component. Yes, we don't know. We don't do that. Folks, no, no, this is a non-fish ship ship. Exactly. You got to go somewhere else. We don't serve that sauce here. For places you can yeah, there's plenty of places you can go find that that's that's not no, but anyway, Susie, what are your thoughts? But yeah, no, I think he feels such a big response. to family and those that he considers family because growing up all he had was his brother and family was kind of in short supply for this kid, for the support of human. And now these older and he's able to see that it doesn't just have to be blood related, it can also be chosen family, there's this need and this want to protect that because that is also deserving of protection as much as the blood family is because as much as he cares for family, see him that he also grows to love and care for like Bobby, Ellen and Joe. And I think that if Ash hadn't had died when he did, that he would have also become like a good, another kind of like surrogate younger sibling that Dean would have had a lot of fun kind of like riffing with and building a relationship with. And we see him do that with Joe a bit as well, but I think it's just this want to be able to protect them as much as he can. And especially I think as the being who he is as a hunter because as we've mentioned before like as a hunter, he wants to be able to protect everyone and he wants to be able to make sure that it wouldn't make it out okay. And even anything more so that's let me see these world's more makes sense. And more so with his chosen kind of like hunter family because he knows what they're going up against, he knows if they're going to go on a hunt, there's a very big possibility that they may not come back or if they're going to join him on a hunt, he knows that there's a very big chance that they could get hurt. That's something could go wrong because he's seen stuff go wrong in the past and he knows what threats there are against. He knows what those creatures with those threats can do. And so for him, I think it's very important to like no, I need to do what I can to keep my family safe because it's a very unsafe world and I need to show up for them and be there for them in kind of like the best way I know how, which is killing some monsters and making sure this world is safe for them. So I think it's really out of control but also in a way kind of sad because then it also leans into the thing of like if I have to sacrifice myself to keep you safe, I will. And we see him do it. We see him do it. And the six of us say oh, and you just watch all of this mainly very questionable decision making and you go no stop it. To do this. Like I'm sure there are other ways. There are other ways. But yeah, it's, oh, he's such a silaguse sometimes. I've said it before. I think if Dean wasn't a hunter, he would still, I still see him as being some kind of a caretaker in some way, something that would, you know, in some way he would be taking care of people because I think that's just part of his nature. And it's just heightened for those that he considers his family. But I do agree that there's definitely that hierarchy of Sam above all others. I mean, that's just, that's a constant for Dean. That's an absolute truth. That's never going to change. But the people that he considers family, I think he's also just like Sam, he's willing to sacrifice everything for them. I like what you said too, or he's just everything he does is for love. Everything. And he, he, he doesn't express it in words. That's not something he's comfortable doing. But you see it in his actions. Everything he does is in service to somebody else, whether that's just taking care of a monster that's, that could be hurting somebody or if he's trying to save his family in one way or another, everything he does is for other people. And I don't think, I don't think he would be able to just function as a person without being in some kind of service to others. I think that's just such a core part of who he is that you just, you can't separate that from him. And I do think, you know, there's, there's a difference in the way that Sam and Dean look at family. And I think that's just because of Dean was a little bit older when he lost his family and so family has a different meaning to him than does the Sam because Sam never had that. And while I think he's willing to sacrifice everything for Dean, I don't know that he's willing to sacrifice everything for any of their other chosen family. Not to say that, you know, he wouldn't do everything he could for people, but I don't think he's willing to go that extra step like Dean is, which on Dean's part, I don't think is exactly healthy. I mean, it's good to be able to, you know, it's a good thing to be able to be willing to help people, but to be that completely self-sacrificing, I think is more harmful to him than it is helpful to other people because I don't think he realizes that by him being willing to, to sacrifice himself and die for other people that, you know, kind of need you here, kind of need you alive more than we need you to give that ultimate sacrifice. But that goes back to all of his issues with, you know, self-worth and all of that. But is there anything else that wanted to point out or any scenes in particular episodes? You know, I do want to point to Dean's like bedside confession, almost to Sam's body. What's interesting about that scene is that because Dean puts family above everybody, especially Sam, and you've got Sam, you've got the rest of his family, and then other people, that's kind of how that works, that pyramid kind of works, the hierarchy kind of works. And in that scene, Dean says, I let you down, I let dad down, I let everybody down, and I guess that's what I just do. And so to Dean's mind, even though he puts family above everything else and everybody else, and even though that's the number one priority for him, he does everything for family and everything for love. In his mind, he fails his family. Like Dean never sees how well he does or how much he does for his family because all he sees is the failures or the mistakes. And this wasn't a failure. Honestly, this Sam dying is not on Dean's head. But in his mind, anything that happens, like I know I mentioned a couple episodes ago, Dean can get someone getting a paper cut miles away and Dean could easily find a way to blame himself for that paper cut. That's just the way his mind thinks is everything is his fault. It's his responsibility to save the world, not just Sam, but the world. And then when he can't even save Sam, which is his number one priority, he's failed. No matter what. Like he should have somehow been there, somehow known exactly where he was, been 10 steps ahead and been able to step in front of that knife. That's the way he views it. And so I think that's the other thing I wanted to point to you is that even though Dean does everything for his family, everything revolves around his family. When you're in with him as family, that's huge. That means he will die for you unless it means Sam dies, but it was huge. It means that he loves you and he trusts you and that's a big thing. But he does not feel like he is worthy of that family. He does not feel like he's worthy of your love or your thinking of him as family. He does not think he's worthy of that unless he's doing something for you, but even then he still doesn't think he's worthy of that. So that's the thing I think that you learn in that confession is Dean doesn't think he's good enough for anybody, which is so heartbreaking and sad. And he wants so badly to be good enough. And so because he doesn't feel he is, then the way that he can quote unquote make up for that shortcoming, which of course is not true, but the way he can his mind is to sacrifice himself or to save you or to save the world or to be that hero. So yeah, that's all I had. Susie, did you have anything else? No, I just want to say, like always, I really like Aaron's takes and points of view on stuff. I think they're they're very cool. Thank you. Thank you. I'm like Dean, I can't take that. I'm so I'm taking. Thank you. It's like, have you seen that video where it's someone with their friend and they're being very introspective with their friend and then their friend tells them like, Oh, thank you for helping me see things differently. And the person goes, and their friend looks at them and says, Yeah, so next time we're going to learn how to accept compliments. I think you learn how to do it. The Dean went just the way we'll brush it off with a self deprecating joke. Yeah, exactly. No, I don't have anything else. Thank you, though, Susie. No, that's. I think that's why it's so important. And I've mentioned it before that scene with Bobby, after when Bobby figured out that Dean made that deal, and it why it was so important for Dean to hear that from someone other than Sam Rajan of how important he was, because like you said, family, his blood family, or the people that he's chosen, they are so important to him, but he does not think he's as important to them as they are to him. - Exactly. - And as he kind of picks up these strays along the way and counts them as family, I think that's really important for them, for both of them really, because they've been so isolated up to this point, because John kept them away from a lot of people. Yeah, there was hunters that he trusted that they probably worked with occasionally, but for the most part, they were isolated from a lot of people. So for them to be kind of finding this family along the way, and I don't think he ever really completely understood maybe until the finale when he heard it from Cass, but I don't think he really understood how important he was to other people, and he really, really needed that. And I'm not saying that they didn't show him that, or they didn't try to portray that to him, but I don't think he ever really took it to heart and really believed it. And that's one of the tragic qualities about him, because he had so much love to give to other people, but he was loved and he never saw that really, or accepted it. I think more importantly, I don't think he ever really accepted it, except for Sam, because he expects that from Sam. - I don't even know if he accepted it from Sam to be quite cranked. - Probably not. - And that's not a diss on Sam. - No, no, no, no. - It's because I don't think Dean, Dean doesn't believe anybody loves him. And it's not because, I think what it is is that Dean honestly doesn't believe anybody could love him because he doesn't think he's worthy of love. He doesn't think he deserves love. He thinks of himself as a piece of shit, which is horrible, horrible, and it does not deserve that at all, and it's not true, but he thinks that. So I think even when he heard Cass, say what Cass said, the reason, 'cause people will say, well, you were just standing there, and he wouldn't say anything, you should have said anything. He's Dean Winchester. He, first of all, he's hearing somebody say all of these words about him, and basically calling this beautiful human being who's just pure love. And he's never really heard that before. Number one, number two, this person is about to die, and he was already blaming himself for that. And number three, Dean is afraid of saying how much he loves people because he doesn't wanna lose them, and he doesn't feel he deserves that love. And so I don't even think he necessarily maybe at the end with Sam. I will amend that. I think at the end he did, but I think for the most part, I don't know if Sam completely believed that his brother truly, truly loved him, mainly because he didn't feel like he deserved to be loved. So sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt there. I just, no, no, no, I agree, 'cause I agree. I don't think, I don't think Dean thinks he's as important to the people he loves, or that they need him as much as he needs them. And we see that all the time with him, and he said, that's just part of, that's the tragic part of, or one of the tragic things about his character is that he, he's never able to accept that from other people. I guess if we don't have anything else to add, we are done for this episode. So we'll go around and close out and tell everybody where we are on the social media, I'm Paula. You can find me on, no, why? My brain is just all over the place today, sorry. You can find me on all the social media so that it's my sandbox. You can also find me on Twitch at my gamertag, Artemis75's, ARTEMIS, Z75. We are also all over on the It's a Phantom Thing discord server, along with a lot of the other panelists from Aaron's podcast, It's a Phantom Thing. - Aaron. (laughing) - It's fighting for more. (laughing) I was dreaming. (laughing) - I'm sorry. - The noise is going on. I don't know if they're doing yard work or what they're doing, but it's completely distracting and I can't keep fatter. - I'm sorry. - Oh no, I don't know how your door opens, but if it's one of those ones that slide open, you push it up, you push it up and go, "I'm recording here!" And then just shut it. I know. That's what I wanted to do. - That's what I wanted to do, the scooter. - It's like, I'm just gonna storm out there and be like, "Shut up!" - I know. - Trying to do things here, but anyway. (laughing) Well, you can find my main podcast, it's a fandom thing. You can find it basically anywhere. Sorry. (laughing) Basically anywhere. We're really listening to this. You can listen to it's a fandom thing. We cover pop culture. - We cover pop culture. - But cover everything in pop culture and fandom primarily from the female perspective, but from other perspectives as well. And then you can also, the best way actually to find us on it's a fandom thing is to go to our website. It's a fandom thing pod.com. And then I co-host another monthly podcast called "Twinnit to Win It" with my podcast brain twin Jenn from my streaming bubble. And new episodes on that every once a month. And I did wanna just say, and this episode had already been out, but I did a guest spot on this podcast called "Doing the Thing" which is through Wizard Radio, which is the hosting platform for my podcast. It's a fandom thing. And one of the things we talked about was what would our Olympics sport be that we could get a golden? And I said mine would be Dean Winchester. (laughing) - Knowing about Dean Winchester. - 100%. - I think all of us could get a gold medal in that. So yeah, we would be all up there tied for the gold medals. If that was an Olympic sport knowing Dean Winchester. - I love it. - I think love it. So yeah, Suzy. - Yeah. - I can be found on the, on the Instagrams at the underscore crafting underscore cryptid, where I post all my fun silly cryptid adventures. And in my bio, I have linked by Dog's Instagram, Benny underscore a pelucita, my little flute ball. And yeah, he's adorable, he's cute. Follow him, he is precious. And now I'm also blanking on the things. (laughing) - I can also be found at the it's a fandom thing discord, as well, and on some occasional episodes of it's a fandom thing. As well, keep an eye out for Halloween guys. I'm coming back. - Yes. - But like Dracula from the coffin, I too shall rise. But I can be found on the discord, and with long without the other panelists, along with Erin Paula, we are in the, it's a Dean thing channel, share stuff with us, send us things. If anyone makes the blue surfer, Sam, Lucis Girlfanart, please send it to us there, or. - Yes. - And we will share it, we will love it. We will make Prince of it with permission, of course, and get them signed, because that would be just so much fun. - Amazing. - Yeah. But yeah, I don't, I mean, if I remember anything later, I'll just say it in another episode. (laughing) - That was amazing. - What is our next episode topic going to be, Susie, that is your choice for the next episode? - I was supposed to pick the topic. - Not to say. I didn't know. Like, what? No, I'm so unprepared. - No, but I thought it would be fun to talk about Dean and the law next time. So I think that would be interesting. - Yeah, cool. ♪ About the law and the law and the law ♪ - Sorry, sorry everybody. (laughing) - I like that all the reprains went there, really. (laughing) - Awesome. - All right, oh, that's it. - Bye. - Bye. - Bye. (upbeat music) - Thank you for listening to It's a Dean thing. - Make sure to follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Threads, Blue Sky, and TikTok at It's a Dean thing pod. And be sure to follow us on your favorite podcast platform and leave us a five star review. Until next time, remember, driver picks the music, shotgun shuts his cake hole. (upbeat music)