2. De Museumclaim

You're going to listen to The Master For Falser, a story about the famous artist for falser of the Netherlands, Geer Jan Jansen. This podcast appears on Podomo earlier, and to let you know about the series, the first two episodes are also here to be listened to. If you want to listen to everything in one go, or after these two episodes know how the story goes, go to www.podomo.nl/masterforfalser. Okay, Ike, we're in the studio. I was on vacation for a couple of days. I thought, well, as it goes on vacation, you sometimes go to your mailbox. And suddenly I had a huge mail from you, titled "Bewindings". And you sent it. I didn't want to bother you, but I found some things. And then this whole mail was actually a exciting book, and I thought, only them? What? So tell me, please, what exactly did you find? I went to that segment from the World Record Store, where Geer Jan can tell you that there is still a fallout of him in the museum. And then he does the four museums, the Van Gogh, the Van Abbe, the Cobra and the Groninger Museum. And then Matthijs van Nieuwkerk goes to him and asks him, what painting would it be? I say Paul Zajak. Would you be happy to hear that? - Paul Zajak? - Matthijs. - Piet Mondrian. - Piet, even more. - Johan Dijstra. - Yes, but now he's doing it again. Paul Zajak, Henri Matthijs, Piet Mondrian and Johan Dijstra. And then I thought, I'm just going to put those four paintings next to the four museums, and then we'll see what comes out. - Just in their methodology? - Yes, except for the Cobra, you can't see what's there. But in other four museums, you can just look online for what they have in the fixed collection. I think most of the fallout is in the Groninger Museum. Well, there are a number of Johan Dijstra's, you could sit in between. There is one Mondrian, it could be. But if you look for Matthijs, you'll find something very interesting. And then you'll find two pictures. And then there's the author, there's Henri. So, the fallout of Matthijs. You hear it right. We're going to find a fallout of Geer de Ann Jantse. A find where two pieces of puzzle around a work of Matthijs fall together. But through the fallout, we actually come to find a story that we find even more interesting. A story with which other logics of Geer de Ann come up. But first we have to tell you how we got to the fallout of Matthijs in the museum. [Music] Welcome to The Master of Fallster. A podcast series of day and night media for Podemo. My name is Lieke Malkorps. And I'm Lieke Schout. We're going to look for a fallout. But we land on the edges of the art world. On a place where the border between real and fake has been misguided. And where one man knows all the clues. Episode 2. The Museum Claim. Geer de Ann could go for years. On a large scale, he worked in the style of famous artists. No one had it in the hole. Until he made a small play in a real certificate. He took care of his disguise. So if we want to do a demand for the museum, which Geer de Ann has named, we know that we have to look at the smallest details. Hi, good afternoon, I'm Lieke Malkorps. Journalist, podcast maker. Already we have no idea what we're looking for here. I was just asking a question. I'm with my colleague, I'm working on a podcast series about fake art. And I was curious, it's about Geer de Ann Jansen. The so-called master falser, I think he heard of it. We're in touch with the four museums. The word "foeders" all find our research interesting. Would there be a fallout in the museum? Of which you don't know that he's from Geer de Ann. That's an interesting claim he makes. But they also say that they can't answer right away. They're going to discuss it, come back to it, or see what they can do for us. We'll keep it short, the best time to send an email. Then we'll look at it in a month. But it's super fun. Good luck, thank you. And that means for us, wait. Meanwhile, it's decided to look at Geer de Ann's work again. Because as the old master falser from the work told us, to understand an artist really well, you have to look and read as much as possible through the ground. Next to Castile Bevereert, there is another place in the Netherlands, where we know that there are countless works of art of Geer de Ann hanging on the wall. Okay, flutter, two kilometers. Flutter. Where are we going? You might already know it from holidays. A small village museum, where you walk around on a rainy day. This is also such a museum. It's in the old town hall of Flutter, a small village in Drenthe. Only is there no local costume exhibition or the history of the line told. Here is hanging fake art. I think that's always very funny. I'm always fascinated by those small private museums. People start that as a hobby. So this is a museum for fake art. Ms. Naplenter and her husband hang up the museum together with her husband. After that, yes, a fake art had been created. It might have been the first victim of Geer de Ann Swendl. No, maybe not the first victim, but one of the first public. Someone who came out of it. He said, "I have an accident." That's not so often that you have an accident and that you go outside with it. Yes, you are a bit hit there. Hello, sorry. Yes, my phone. Come on in. Good morning. Hello. Hello. Ms. Na is waiting for us at the entrance of her museum. Erna. Erna. It's a fleet of 70. Long, dark brown hair, put on in a knot. Glass with a red monture on. She walks through the museum. On the wall, there are ten fake works, from Appel to Matisse. And there is even a chair from Rietveld. From a number of works of art, Erna knows for sure that they are from Geer de Ann. Look, this is where it all started. Here she tells every roundabout the story behind her own judgment error. In 1984, we lived together. We had a holiday in France. We saw a lot of coincidence from Matisse. Later on, we went to Amsterdam. And then we saw one of those beautiful art handles. A Matisse hanger. And we found it so nice as a reminder of our first romantic holiday. That we went to Aarzelen, because it was quite a expensive thing, but we bought it. In a very chic art handle in Amsterdam, yes? Okay. And can you describe the work, what do we see? We say "your" in the picture. Well, it's a formal cut of Matisse. And Matisse was sick at the end of his life. He was able to paint from his bed, or from our chair. But the craftsmen assumed that it was not so expensive, because of olive paint in the lake and such. And then they gave me a cardboard, they gave me a scarf. I'm going to do it in a different way. And these are figures, and they are cut out of paper. This is a part of one of those short cuts, like a sitting woman with her knees up. The arms on her and with some apples. And that, just as big as it was originally, has never made a lot of pressure. A beautiful work by Henri Matisse. Erna and her husband hang the prominent on in the living room. And watch for years with the only association that has a beautiful holiday in France. Until her husband suddenly wants to look for the painting in the Eugre Catholic of Matisse. And there he is not in. Crazy, because that's where all the work of the artist should be. There are doubts. Matisse is carefully hung on a slightly less striking place, on the first floor. 13 years later we knew where he came from. Because then, the false Geert Jan Jansen was arrested at a castle in France. And then they have 1600 false works. They assume that they were all false. In France they were slaughtered. The German magazine Weldkunst then has a whole bunch of these evidences in various episodes of that magazine. It was printed as a warning for everyone. And one of those pages is this, and there you can see our Matisse. And then we knew where our Matisse came from. The painting remains the same. A sitting woman, kneeling up, Appeltjes around. Not only is not Henri Matisse, but Geert Jan Jansen the maker. From that moment on, Erna sees the work of the artist with other eyes. It is taken from the wall, and no longer hung up in the house. You don't want to look at something while you think it's from the artist, and know that it probably isn't from the artist. What changes then? Can you tell that? Well, we get this kind of question very often. And then people say, well, it remains the same thing. And I once said to a real couple, you give your wife a ring. Gold, with a beautiful ring. Your wife is very happy with it. She carries it every day. And at a certain point, the stone freezes. The diamond wheel freezes. So you go to a jeweler and ask if it can be fixed. And then the jeweler calls you back and says, "My wife, this is doublet with a piece of glass." So I don't know if it makes sense to fix this. But then they say to you, it looks the same thing. You've been carrying it for years and you're happy with it. But they never do it anymore. Erna Plenter is the school example of thinking. The wrong purchase of art costs a lot of money. And leaves a empty wall behind. But now she has a museum, where she gives her own fault every week with a lot of pleasure. Also, if there is a famous figure walking in on a day. Well, we recognize him immediately. Because you recognize him everywhere. And he had been in all the talks on television. So we saw him walking in. He said, "Mr. Jansen, wait in the hall of the lion." Well, then he was with my tour guide. And then I told the whole story of Matisse. And at the end of the story, I said, "Well, Mr. Jansen, you're being friendly." "Because that's your work." It was very... You saw him thinking. And I think that he thought of something like, "If I say here, yes, that's my work, then that's the knowledge." So he looked for a description. "This is work that I recognize." And then I started the story about the Carol Appels, of which we knew that he was false. And then he said, "Yes, I recognize that first person too." I think he turned it around, he made it. The print of 'The Woman with the Apples' received a better taste for Erna. But it doesn't seem to be a statement from Vrock, the maker. In terms of the criminal aspect, I don't think it's a statement from Jansen. But I do have respect for... Or maybe respect is a different word, but I can do something. Of course he can do something. And he did all those styles. And when you see how he put the hand drawings of artists... Well, yes, I think it's a graze, to be honest. So, yes, a kind of admiration may also be there. What made you think of 'The Woman with the Apples'? And what I thought about later, when we were in Fledder in the museum, we only saw Prince of Geerjan. So lithography, printing, but no single oil painting difference. And from that Prince, of course, it's much easier to fall, because you make a composition and then you just print it very often. And then I thought, yes, what is that? I thought that was pretty crazy. Yes, that's also striking. That there are only prints and no painting with oil paint. But what could that mean? That there are only prints in Fledder? Yes, I thought there were two things, I think. So on the one hand it could mean that it was Geerjan's specialty. So that he made seven print lithographies. On the other hand, it could also mean that the oil painting differences are so good that it is still discovered in a museum. Yes, that it still goes through for real. Yes, of course we will come back to that. But we at least know that it is not just from Gochmuseum. Oh, we have an answer. Yes, we got an answer from that. Well, of course, we already had a bit of skepticism. Of course, we were a bit curious if we could do that, because that is of course one of the top museums in the world. Yes, it seems to me very strong that you come in between. That is also because they mail, and then I take the mail with me, of the four artists who Mr. Jansen in the world is called. We only have a few of them in our collection. The lithographies we have from these artists are well documented. Some are already published before the career of Geerjan, and in the other works he is known as the background. Okay, clear. Yes, we will not find any confusion about that. No, you are going to sit between them. Well, then it goes straight through to the Gochmuseum. The lithographies. And then I also get an answer from the Cobra Museum in Amstelveen. They also looked into their collection and they let know that there are no works by Syngjak, Mathis, Mondrian or Dijkstra. Okay, they are called painters. Yes, so the four painters have not been there. Okay. So that's not going to happen to them. But yes, then there remains something to complain about, because the whole museum is full of works by Karol Appel. And that is indeed the specialty of Geerjan. So could that be possible? Yes, of course, I also asked her what we could do with it. And yes, it is just very difficult to do research there. It is not so good with the Cobra Museum. No. So we have some other things in mind. Yes, and their collection is not digitized. So we can not actually search for anything. And go to the depot, that is also no option, because they do not have people who can help us with that. Yes, so that is actually also missing. Okay. Then we suddenly have only two. Yes, then it is only waiting for us now on the Van Abbenmuseum and the Groningen Museum. It also feels a bit weird, because it is a kind of subtraction, what we received from Geerjan. Four museums, four artists, just go ask her. And then I also think, yes, is he not much more hidden than that? Yes, that it is actually so weird that he has reached us with a presentation sheet. Yes. So is this just going to find out? Yes, exactly. And then I also think, what is this about him? And how he works, and how he thinks. We have to know more about the motive and the psyche of a suspect. Well, oh no, you are going to me. Yes, well, yes. And later someone will be there. Everything will know. They are very dangerous people. They know all the tricks and to mask them, to get them on the track, that is cleaning, cleaning. This is Artiour Brandt, the art detective. He supports art, and the unmasking of typists like Geerjan, as a suspect, is called his true passion. If someone can give us a look at the head of a suspect, then it is Artiour. I always look at things as very dangerous opponents, which are actually too smart for me. But where I sometimes just look at it, they have to have looked at it a thousand times, and I have to look at it once. They are smart. And what Artiour is so smart about, Geerjan, is not that he can paint, but that he can paint in the style of Van. A rembrandt after painting. We always thought it was difficult, but in China it happens daily. There are maybe 10,000 Chinese at the moment, Picasso, rembrandt after painting. If you are going to fail an artist, a known person, a famous painter, then you have to know his style. We have to explain that in the style of Van. Geerjan doesn't take enough from the rembrandt after painting. Rembrandt, that can be done by everyone. What Geerjan does is create a new work, that fits a great painter. So you don't make a reproduction of a existing painting, but you dig into the head of, for example, Carol Appel, to get to a work that he could have made. And that is only laid out for a real artist. And then you also have to know how to bring such work to the market. You have to speak the language, because you come from art dealers in Kringentrecht, you come from experts in Kringentrecht, who also go painting, they touch the paint. Some paint, for example, was still not available 100 years ago. So if you think you are painting now, then you know that a painting cannot be made by Van Gogh. So you have to know a lot about chemical combinations. You also have to have a certain limit, because you're going to kill people. Look, I think that Julia and I, even if I find a pottermane on the street, I bring him back. That's a certain type of people. There are also people who say, "Oh, I like my business." There are just two different types of people. Because what do you think of him as a robber? A prototype of a robber, of course. Of course, he is a kind of capable, intelligent man. If he wants to, he will take the last 50 euros. He is such a type. And yes, it's one of those men who, even when you're exposed to them, I have made more of them, that the victims later say, "Yes, and yet we have laughed terribly with that man." And that's what you often see, and yet, there are people who can't bear it. Yes, I'm always on my toes when I'm with him, because with this kind of figure, because I respect him more than I am myself, so it's always like that. You get peeped, they send you the wrong path, so you always have to be very careful. Artur studies robbers with pleasure. He finds their tricks fascinating. But there are also dangerous people. That danger is one of the ways for us to see something difficult. We see a man who appears everywhere on TV to tell his story. And with that, the editorial art world takes on the hake. What the big public often says, "Yes, there will be a white cloth with a black ribbon on it for 10 million euros." And everyone is like, "Oh, fantastic, this and that." And a lot of people think, "What is this actually?" "This is not 10 million dollars." There comes a robber who takes just such a black ribbon on a white cloth, and sells it for 10 million euros. Well, the big public is in a hole, of course. But you say, "Of course." Where does that come from? Look, I also come to the exhibition, and then I hang a plastic bag in Weizelspreik, and it's just sold for 2 tons. And if you say, "I think it's a bit like the clothes of the Kaiser," then you don't even listen to me anymore. "Oh, what do you know about it?" You don't see that. There is a kind of atmosphere where if you don't like all of that, then you hear it a little bit at the plebs. And people feel that way. So there is a kind of snobbish in the art world. And on the one hand, I understand that they get a lot of value, and on the other hand, I find it unfair. Because yes, the auction is an auction. And if you sell something, if there is a cowlapel, and it is not a cowlapel, then you are just criminal. Artists are Robin Hoods, the wildest art world. A foreigner, you with the pet, enjoys it here. It's also funny with artists, because they are friendly and charming, but they never underestimate their actions. Are there any more negative consequences for selling such a cowlapel? Certainly. Art is of course important. Art, in our way of thinking, is literature. The fashion that influences all art, or at least by art. Millions of people in the world study art. They want to see how it has developed, where it has changed. Andy Warhol, for example, has changed the whole pop culture. If there are scabs between them, 30% is false. That is a more visible estimate. And you don't know what those scabs are. Then you really get a wrong image of the development of art. What is an essential part of our society. So it is a financial load of people who buy such works. But it also makes the view on our history, on the development of people, a bit disturbing. The consequences of Geert-Jan's violations are greater than only due to the purchase of art. And in their own crazy experts. A violation that is in the museum collection, changes our view on history. We didn't realize that yet. Do we have Geert-Jan, but also the effect of his acts of underestimation? In the meantime, we are even further away. After we made the first contact with the four museums that Geert-Jan had talked about in the world tour. And to be very honest, I am very proud of him. I didn't really believe that we were going to find anything. But Ike had asked for it. And she looked out at a reaction from the two museums that had not yet reacted. The Van Abben and the Groninger Museum. In the first instance, I did not receive a reaction from the Van Abben Museum. But I do know that there are at least two works of Mondrian in the collection. So I also try it with the old conservator. She worked in the Van Abben Museum, but I don't know if it works. She reacted that after her speech at the TV programme, she did an extra research in the museum. But the Mondrian can't be rummaged. They were bought in 1950 and 1955. So in a time that Geert-Jan was 7 and 12 years old. Not the real age to fail such successful art. After the collection of the museum, Ike and I had a conversation with Geert-Jan. After the collections of Van Gogh, the Cobra and the Van Abben did nothing, there was only the Groninger Museum left. And then I came back from the holiday. And Ike talks to me in the podcast studio about her, well, even more confusing invention. So tell me, please, what exactly did you find? Yes, I went to hear that fragment from the World War II, where Geert-Jan can tell that there is still a connection with the museum. Ike had a solid collection of the Groninger Museum all the way through. There is one Mondrian. It could be. But if you look for Matisse, you'll find something very interesting. And then you'll find two images. And then there is the author. It says "Handrie". So Hake is a successor to Matisse. And one of those works is exactly the same work as that in the museum of false art. But this is very strange. That it is on their website, and that they have it, and that there is also "Horrie" and then "Vervolzer van". I don't know what it is either. I only know that it says "Vervolzer van Matisse". And it is exactly the same work as that we have seen in the museum of false art. Ike found two prints of Matisse in the collection of the Groninger Museum. On the first one, there is a sitting woman. Arm behind the head, blue. The second one is also a sitting woman. This time with the knees raised, arm behind the head. And around her, apples. We know this one. This is exactly the same print as Erna and Henkplenter in 1984 have acquired in the chic art trade in Amsterdam. This work forms the starting point for their museum of false art in Fledder. And the Groninger Museum also has this one in the collection. We look at the available items in the online catalogs of the Groninger Museum. At the maker is Henry Matisse. But between Henry and Matisse are two hooks. And there is "Vervolzer van". So there must have been someone who discovered that these are false art. I think this work was once acquired by the Groningers. And that it was a real Matisse. And at some point it came to an end, this is false. And now it's called "Henry Vervolzer van Matisse". Yes, but it's very funny that we have contacted the Groninger Museum. That's still going on, but they don't say much yet. They don't say at the same time, oh yes, we indeed have some false art in our collection. We know that. Because this is just online. So until now, we haven't found anything to find that there has ever been an accident in the museum in the Netherlands. Exactly, but this seems to be a false work. And a work by Gerrit Janssen. Yes? This must be Gerrit Janssen. This is exactly the same print. At the moment that we discovered these two Matisse prints, we also had contact with the director of the Groninger Museum. We were busy planning an interview with him. But our curiosity was too large to wait for that interview. And so we also decided to mail the manager of the online collection. In the hope that there was more information in the system. And that was it. Yes, he could tell us a little more. Because the 275 are acquired in 1982. Oh, the high time days of Gerrit Janssen. Exactly. And they cost €500 per piece. Okay, that's not a lot. No, a small amount. And they were bought at the Vendu House of the Hende in Groningen. And that's a small house in the city. Ah, I also recognize that. That is also a slave route of Gerrit Janssen. Yes, and that makes me think that I just don't doubt it. So all those elements. Yes, Gerrit Janssen is the maker of these 27 prints. And so they are in the collection of the Groningen Museum. But if this is Gerrit Janssen's weaponry, the artwork he wanted to name in the world tour in Hinten. Why is it so nonchalant on the website of the Groningen Museum? In the next episode we will go to Groningen to get answers here. And we will talk to journalist Bert Voskijl, who asks us to look critically at Gerrit Janssen. Because why would we actually believe in his instructions one by one? Gerrit Janssen's side as Robin Hood gradually falls to the background. And his side as a slave collector is moved forward. I could have known it, maybe I should have known it. But that's not the case. Oh, the stories he told, they were always a bit... If you are not bound to the truth, then it is easy to tell. You have all the freedom. Yes, and apparently no one ever really asks questions about it. No, but why would we do that? This was episode 2 of The Master Vervalser. Did you enjoy these first two episodes? Then also tip our podcast to your friends, family or colleagues. If you want to know more about the Groningen Museum, then go to poddemo.nl/meestervervalser and try Poddemo for 30 days.