Day Five From the Combine: Kenyon Sadiq, Eli Stowers, Dillon Thieneman, and more

[MUSIC] Either the electronic timers and measurement sticks are broken or we've got a better NFL draft class on our hands than anyone seems to think. Day two of workouts at the NFL Scouting Combine with the defense of backs and tight ends are in the books and we're going to review all of it. And just 55 days until the NFL draft. I hesitate to ask. [LAUGH] Men, are you good? I'm a mess, but I'm stoked. All right, Tucker roll that beat, please. [MUSIC] What is going on, man? This is kind of the sandwich class, right? Between last year's good one and the 2024 great one and next year's all time class. It's supposed to be just okay. We'll get a few players get out of here and get ready for 27. >> Right. >> So why are we breaking records every single time I turn around? >> Man, we're excited about this new partnership. This episode is presented by Scout Motors. Every new year we do a lot of forward thinking and planning for what's to come. Just like the all new Scout Terra and Scout Traveler, they're being revamped for what comes next. Taking that classic '70s design and improving it with modern engineering, including plans for advanced four wheel drive. So look ahead, join the wait list at scoutmotors.com, just like I just did. Concept vehicles not available for sale, features and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the wait list does not guarantee purchase. Visit scoutmotors.com for details. >> I don't know what to tell you, man. I really don't know what to tell you. >> It's the fastest defensive line class, the fastest defensive back group, the fastest, most explosive line backer class. And now we've got a tight end group that we're breaking records, vertical jumps, broad jumps, 40 times. It's been awesome to watch. >> Yeah. >> I mean, Stanford, Steve Texas last night was like, he was the over under on stowers, was 40 inches. I mean, I thought I was like 40 inches, man, that'd be a great number to hit. Let's get into it because there were some, the cornerback class was pretty good. A lot of the top guys did not run, but we had some good results and I thought some really cool on the field stuff. It's been a fun week, man. I mean, McKay Lemon is get going viral, he's an interesting cat. What do we got there? >> [LAUGH] >> Yeah, the shrimp cocktail, which fooled me once. Blime in and Joe Douglas and Elio and Bernone and those guys. I didn't know the whole deal. >> Stain Elmo's. >> Stain Elmo's and they say here, you got to take a scoop, the best cocktail sauce we've ever had. I did it and it wrecked me for like 30 years. >> I know it's coming now and it still gets me. It's still that, there's a second of, just breath away, yeah. >> What also took my breath away was watching Ken Yon's to Deak run a 439-40 yard dash. >> [LAUGH] >> And watching, you know the coolest part was watching Ken Yon's to Deak break the record for the vertical jump with 43 and a half inches. And then a couple guys later, it's Eli Stowers, the Vanderbilt Titan, breaks the record, breaks his record with a 45 and a half. >> 45 and a half inches man, that's insane. >> When Sonny Stiles yesterday jumped a 43 and a half, I said, I knew this guy was free-kissing. I knew he was going to do something special. To see Eli Stowers, who I knew was going to have a great workout. I even ran into his agent group today in the hotel lobby. And there he's going to do some special stuff. I'm like, I know. >> We've heard. >> Like everyone's telling me this. >> Yeah. >> But I didn't know to this level, truly. So let's break it down. Let's start at the top of this Titan group, which is just okay. I mean, last year we had two first rounders, right? We had Tyler Warren surprisingly was the second off the board. After Colston, Lovelin was selected a few picks earlier by the Chicago Bears. >> Yep. >> And then all of a sudden, the first 15 picks, we got two Titans off the board. And we saw a bunch of Titans go. This year's group, it's like Ken Yen-Sidit, no question about it. Oregon Titan is a first rounder. Eli Stowers is kind of next up, he and Max Claire, different cats, right? Stowers is talked about by the way, by NFL people that have been talking to this week. And a little whispers about it, Senior Bowl, and maybe like a slot receiver who you flex around, like legitimately a slot receiver, like in the receiver room, okay? Where Max Claire is your prototypical Purdue Ohio State, you know, six, four, and change. 200 and what did he check in at it, whatever it is. You know, 250 pounds right around that range and can block in line, but also has some athletic traits and can catch the ball. And I don't think anyone was prepared for was to see these two guys, Sadeek and Stowers work out as well. We knew they would work out well, not as well. I want to give some perspective, okay? Stowers comes in, so just some people understand, they do the jumping first, the vertical jump and the broad jump before they do the 40-yard dashes, okay? So Stowers comes in, as I mentioned, after Sadeek has his great, his great 43 1/2-inch vertical jump, which was the tight end record at the combine when he did it. Then their names are right back, you know, it's very Sadeek with an A, Stowers with a T after the S's. I think Bowers Sharp had a go in between. Bowers sharp that poor son of a gun, man. Imagine being, oh man. But anyway, so Stowers comes up and he jumps a 45 1/2 and if you get to watch the video of it, it's almost like he does this Jordan thing at the very top of his jump. Or it's like, I need one more, you know? And so he hits that. For the brand man, Morgan. That is a combine record for tight ends and it is the highest vertical jump of any player at the combine since 2006. It's 20 years, bro. That's two decades and it's a tight end. Yeah. You know what I mean? I mean 240 pound man getting up like that. I told you I was there for the Vernon Davis workout and I thought I'd never see anything like it. And I don't know that I've ever seen a physique. I don't like talking about men's bodies and sometimes in this like it becomes the underwear Olympics and it's like, oh, he's so body beautiful and it's like, it kind of crosses the line sometimes. I'm not going there. But I think we all can recognize when you see a Greek God and Vernon Davis was a great guy. He was like 250 plus to. Yeah, it was weird to watch what he was able to do, right? But he comes out today. Who's this like F tight end and was really productive and by the way, let's talk to you about stowers, okay? Stowers is a former quarterback who is an unbelievable sense of like getting open forwards quarterback, finding soft spots in zones, all right? He's also a the academic hysm and the Campbell award winner, one of the smartest cats in the world. And I bring on Scott Goldman from AIQ, which is does the intelligence testing, the only NFL registered and approved NFL testing group for the for intelligence. And it's beyond just like, yeah, he's wicked smart, man. No, it's like, it's reaction skills and they do kind of explain it as a candy crush and all that. And so when I met with Scott Goldman and Eli is one of his kind of partners who co-workers there and we had this long conversation, I said, give me some guys that really stand out that will approve, their agents will approve you using it on our show. And so he came on with four names and our Val Reese was one of them and the next guy up was stowers. Yep. So this guy is unbelievable spatial awareness and so now we're talking about a brain kind of the character, the leadership, former quarterback. Production. I mean, he's a very productive. Highly productive player in the SEC and then he goes out and works out. And listen, he's under size, but it's not like grossly under size. He's 6036, which means he's almost six foot four. He's just about 240 pounds. He's got 32 and 5/8 inch arm length, which just to give perspective on that 33 inch arm is the average for NFL tight ends. So like, he's in the range and then he goes and has the 45 and a half inch vertical jump. And you see the frame. Some guys looks like they're maxed out. He doesn't look like he's maxed out. I mean, 245, he don't think is out of the question for him. People were saying, you know, he could be this year's Harold Fannon. It's interesting. I see Evan Ingram and I know he didn't run as well as I think. He's just so much more explosive than Fannon. Yeah. And I love Harold Fannon. Yeah. Well, like, he had a great rookie year. Well, a rookie year. And it's funny because the time was I think Ingram ran a 442 and stowers ran a 451 and I think that's right. So the times don't match up. But man, when I watch him on tape, that's I see Evan Ingram when I watch tape. Yeah, but this guy to me is a little bit like the space. I see the spatial awareness and like the getting open. I think it's not just like the traits in the in the mood. So anyway, no, everything was a great receiver man. That's what I'm seeing. But go ahead. So then Kenyansse Deek from Oregon, who's the number one tight end in the class projected top 20 pick, right? He goes and like, all right, fine. You got me in the vertical by two inches. Let's go to the broad jump. I'm going to do an 11, 11 foot, which is sensational. The average five years on the the broad jumps is just so people get some context here is nine feet, nine inches. He rips off 11 feet. Got to feel pretty safe about that one, right? Two players later, stowers pops up. He goes 11, three. Anything you can do, I can do better, right? Like insane. Yeah. So finally, Sedique gets his moment. We go around the 40. And Sedique runs a four, four flat unofficial. Stowers runs a four, five, one, which is still absurd, right? The average for a 40 yard dash is a four, seven, four by tight ends. So a four, five, one is sensational, but it's finally like there's no catching me. And they both basically run identical times the next time up unofficial. And then it comes out that similar to last night with sunny styles and our Valries running the four, what was it? I think it was a four four seven. They got to a four four six. Yeah. His number one from a four four, oh, to a four three nine. And just so people understand that and get some perspective. That is the fastest 40 time at the combine ever run by a tight end. And what's interesting, I wanted to give one more thing. I just read this. This is insane. Remember Jameer Gibbs? Yeah. Oh, no. I remember going in to Nick Sabin's office and then talking to me about like, you know, the miles per hour on this guy's unbelievable. Jameer Gibbs is like, you have no idea how fast he can, he hits it up and like what top speed he can get to in practice. He's hitting numbers and we've had all these unbelievable wide receivers, you know, the radio Jones is like all this like the Jerry Judy's and the and the rugs in the and the Devante Smith and all those guys. Gibbs hit 23.2 miles per hour running his 40 yard dash at the combine, right? Kenyan Sedic hit 23.2 miles per hour at the combine. You know the difference? Gibbs was 199 pounds. It's a deep 241. It's not normal what we're seeing. And I and I choked about the fact that maybe like the electronic times are off. Maybe maybe the measurement sticks are broken. But we all know that's not the case. Like this is the most tightly run ship you've ever seen. And then maybe we'll go, they'll come back later and someone will start a rumor that some I'm sure. It's you know that's coming. But the bottom line is these guys are doing and we haven't even gotten to what the safety is did off of the night we had today was like a hangover. I got mentioned bed half the day. The poor guy shouldn't have done this show last night. Everyone's yelling. Everyone on social media is yelling at me because I you better take care of lunch. There was a fair which did Steve Cochland's giving you motivational speeches this morning. I mean, it takes back. I've been so I got a text back. But I think though you haven't had me in bed for half the day. I've been in bed half the day. Huh? Worried? What? Worting. You said that you had me in bed for half the day. What? What? Yeah. Bad wording. If that's what came out of my mouth, it was terrible. Terror warning. But I'll talk about Steve for a second. Go. Alright, thank you. First side enough of the board if he works out here. If he doesn't work out here, is he the first side enough of the board? Yes. Comes out and still puts on a show. And it's interesting to me that he's probably helped himself. There's probably more teams earlier in the draft now saying, "Mmm, I know he's a tight in. I know. I think he helped himself a lot. But I love the competitiveness. I love that this dude was going to be the first." And we've seen it again. Arvel Reese. Sonny Stiles. Those guys are going early, man. Didn't he have to come out here and do that? Let me tell you a story about Cedic that I mentioned earlier in this season. People don't want to admit it. And they were scouts that kind of came out of that building. We're kind of shaking their head like this guy is so talented what's going on. It seems like even the people in the building are getting frustrated with Ken Young. And I've talked to people who were friends of mine who were on the scouting trail. And they're like, "Yeah, I don't know. It just seems like they're frustrated." And the general sense I got, and there were quotes in there, and I'm not going to give away the exact quotes because it might give away the person who said it, was that, "Man, we love the guy when he was the number two tight end. We love the way he worked. He showed up." But now he's the number one guy. It's not the same. We're trying to kind of push that, right? And that got to me and I made a comment. And then literally there was a letter sent out to all scouts, I guess, in the league. There would come through Oregon and people were pissed off. But I noticed within the next two weeks, this spark was lit, right? And it seems like sometimes in life it takes motivation. It takes maybe like, "Hey, words getting out that I'm not doing what I need to do. It takes something smacking you in the face to realize, "Man, I've got so much going for me, I better not blow this, right?" And I got to refocus and you could see in the second half of the season the fire in his game and finding ways to get down the field, the extended catches, some of the blocks. And from that point on, somewhere in mid-October I want to say, he became the threat and the weapon and he's never turned back. And now as you're saying, he comes here and he competes his tail off in the combine, he doesn't need to. There were like nine cornerbacks that needed to work out. A hell of a lot more than Ken Yonsek Deak's. Titans, but yeah. No, no, I'm saying the cornerbacks earlier in the night. Oh, I got to get you to do that. There were a couple of Titans that were like really wide, but they're probably protecting their number and trying to get it right for their pro day. But I mean, there were high ranked guys in the first second round at cornerback and at safety, but more so at cornerback that needed to work out a lot more than Ken Yonsek Deak did. And he came out and he worked out the way he did. And competed like toe for toe with this Eli Stauer's guy that turns out to be even more of a physical phenom than we ever thought. So it was a special night for those two guys. Yeah, you know what's interesting about that? And again, I'm going to go back to the decision maker series really quickly is that we talked to Dan Morgan about finding out whether or guys the right kind of guy and the right kind of fit. And I was looking for an interview question. I was looking like, how do you find that? And an interview was like, no, it's it's if everything matches up, is he the dog and everything that he does when you throw on the tape as he a dog when he shows up at the combine? Is he a dog? And it's that kind of a thing that you can say whatever you want about you're going to be this great. You'd love football. You'd love the game. I would love to play, but you show up and compete when it matters. And I mean, it's not just fascinating. It's not dissimilar from life. Like, someone walks in the room and you've gotten a lot of information on that person. You're looking to either stamp it. You have a preconceived notion of what the guy is and it's not like, it's not, oh, I heard it through my friends or someone or a coworker worked with him somewhere else. That tape don't lie, right? And so Dan Morgan's right. So when he walks in the room, he's looking like, is there something he's going to say that it's going to solidify the fact that I think he's kind of kind of dogs that he's not, you know, or is he going to have the behavior of what I see on tape? So let's stick with the tight ends for a minute. Honestly, the rest of the group was, it got so overshadowed by these numbers. I thought it was pretty good. It's worth noting that Max Claire from Ohio State widely regarded as the third tight end in this class did not work out. But he checked in, I mentioned his numbers, four, six, four and three, eights, two hundred and forty six pounds. But didn't work out here. Michael Triggs, another one of those guys, might be the most talented cat in this draft of the tight end position. But there's some stuff that is preventing teams from going all in. His length, 84 and three, eights, wing span is wild. It's almost six, four, two hundred and forty pounds. But he'll have to work out a bailer. He chose not to work out here. Kind of, you know, yeah, right, right? Dan Morgan, what were you just talking about? Yeah, if you're that good, just go on. Like, dude, your number's going to be somewhere there as it is here. Like, just going to beat. Two other new guys that I wanted to note. I'm going to, Jaron Canack, we were first to market on and I feel really good about that. The Oklahoma tight end, we were telling the story back in September about, this is a young man who played linebacker for three years at Oklahoma, desperately. A team guy wanted to find a way to contribute, right? I called my guy Nagy after I saw him kind of flash a couple times on tape. And Jim Nagy, who is the former executive director of the senior ball, I worked with him my very first job out of college. We were in the same tiny office with Gary Horton, who's not the smallest man in the world. There's a one man office and three of us were squished in there. So I got to know Jim really well early on. But Jim tells me, man, you love this guy. Metallica, like ripped shirt every day. First guy in loves the game. Like we'll do anything, special teams, all the little things. He's like, he's undersized, but he works. And I think he's going to work out pretty well, but like we just love him. And he came into the coach's office and asked the coach, he's like, how can I contribute? Do you mind if I move over to tight end? I'll play special teams, but I'm just not getting up good to think about the linebackers they have there, right? Yeah. And so they're like, okay, we'll give you a shot and if it works out in fall camp, we'll let you stick with it. And all of a sudden, he becomes a real productive part of their office. And so, canek shows up here today and there's kind of some buzz on the internet and all that. And I thought he worked out really well. He is small by tight end standards. Six two, he's 234. He's got short arms, all that stuff. And he ran a four five two. There's a fourth fastest and they take those two superhuman out of this thing. And it would have been the second fastest in the kind of a normal year, second and third fastest, right? And the 36 inch vertical 9/11 broad, both very good results. So I was excited to see that from Canek, who's going to be a day three pick, but I think it's one of the most interesting fun stories in this year's draft class. Yeah. And I think that looked, I have this theory that we know that NFL head coaches are getting younger and I think that coaches are adapting their offices and defenses to player skill sets. And when you have a guy like this, who's played linebacker before and he's got these traits and he's productive and that people love him in the locker room, I think that you find a way to use him. I don't think it's the old days where we're like, we're looking for a number two tight end who's going to be a blocking guy. He's going to compliment our number one tight end. It's not like that anymore. People are looking for guys that love football. We hear that over and over again and guys that have traits that can help you. Where's this guy named Sam Rao, right? No, here we go. From Stanford. I just like what I see from him. He's six foot six, he's 267 pounds. He's got ten inch hands. Very short arms of shocking by the way. I once called him oatmeal, you know? Just like think about it a cold winter's day, you come down, you need some nutrients and you're like going out as a lumberjack to cut down wood. Sam Rao's is that guy, right? And at the senior ball he catches everything with those big mitts and he's running the routes properly and he's tough and he's the best blocking tight end in this entire class. Well guess what? He's kind of explosive too. Showed out today 38 and a half inch vertical. Third best behind Stowers and Sedeek, who are wide receivers. Let's call it what it is. Stowers and Sedeek. Sedeek is 241. Stowers is 239. Rao's is 267. Had 38 and a half inch vertical. Third best, okay? Broad jump, 9/11. Tied for 9. They say well that's not that great. But look at every single other wide receivers slash tight end before him. It's a really good, then he runs a 4/7. You're like oh, well, guys are running 4/39. It's average for the tight ends. It's actually slightly above average for the tight ends in the last five years. When you do the weighted just it at 6267, it's pretty damn good. Yeah. Just. I mean, I'm calling on the motel. I mean, it might be better than the motel. He might be. He might be. Maybe like a hungry man's breakfast or something like that. I want to go over to safety now because the safety, like honestly, I was going to start to show with the with the safeties. And then the tight ends did what they did. I had, I've had some good conversations here. And another really good one in this room with an executive today, one on one, actually Nick asked the very smart question, our cameraman super super, supreme that maybe should we take the cameras out. And I was like, no, no, we're fine. And he's like, these are these on because there's like mics and cameras everywhere. No, no, no, I probably. All right. The reason I'm bringing all this up is because we're in Caleb Downs territory. And I'll give you just a quick little glance into some of the conversations I've had and kind of culminated today with a really unique one. Teams are really grappling with, man, we got these edge rushers, right? And our Val Reese is one of them, by the way. And it's Bailey and it's Reese and it's and it's Bane and it's some other guys. But those guys are the three best in a lot of teams minds. But then we've got these other players and other positions. Caleb Downs, Jeremiah Love, and interestingly enough, Sonny Styles, right? Yeah. In this guy's mind, those are the three best players. And I've heard a version of this with some different, so I'm encouraging you to go read the McShay report, right? Because we have a full breakdown of everything I heard with that conversation. It kind of follows into the offensive tackles. I don't say right now. On sale. It's on sale. That's 20% for the next two weeks. I thought Dan was going to look for the promo to hand to you to read. I like come on. Instead, he's reaching for the cra- the cra- the craved cookies. And honestly, I can't- I don't blame him. I think it's 20% for the next two months. And then 30% for the next year. Just Google it, subscribe. Absolutely. There's a percentage off. And if like, there's no better time in the year to get it. But I laid out a bunch of good stuff there. Offensive tackles, cornerbacks, some interesting wide receiver stuff. First time I've been- I now, after several days, I've been able like multiple sources, so anything I say, it won't be directly linked to one. So trust me, there's some good stuff in there. And a combine review of all this. But I say that because Downs is obviously one of those three guys, right? Downs does not work out here. There is a length deficiency issue that we'll have to get to at some point with Caleb Downs. You can't check it in at 5.11.5, 206 pounds, 9.5 in chance, all good. Then a 30 and a quarter inch arm length, and a 73 and a quarter wing span, you say, "Totally, what does that mean?" Well, the average wing span for safety is 75. It's almost 76. And the average arm is 31 and a half. And so he's below both of those numbers as the number one safety, and we're talking about a leap. But I promise you, everyone in the league is like, "I don't care. I don't care." But that's there. Jacobi Thomas is another one who didn't work out. EMW, Emmanuel McNeil Warren, the Toledo Safety that I love on tape, playmaker, kind of that versatile chest piece, checked in great size, 6.5, 200 pounds, long arms, long wing span, all of it. I thought he'd just had an average workout across the board. He ran a 4.5, 2. He was 10th best in the vertical jump, but it was solid. He'd brought a jump with solid. Didn't do anything to stand out. That's the end of the negativity in the average, right? From this point on, it's. Dylan Thineman may have helped himself as much or more than any other prospect that it was already considered a first rounder. The Oregon Safety. Because what he's done this week is beyond what the numbers were, and talking to people in the league, GMs, personnel directors, decision makers. This guy's in that top-top tier of the interview stuff, and it's beyond the interview. It's like what they already knew about him, but now they're putting him on the board, and they're showing clips. His recall, his recognition, his regurgitation of plays, what he saw, calling it out, they're blown away. There's asked to do a lot of different things in college, yeah. It doesn't surprise me. You're the one. I just finished up as a value-weight. You're the one who said, "Go back and watch the freshman tape." Yeah. He's probably better in the role that he played in Oregon. I agree with you. I think that. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but that's what you were saying. He's a little bit better close to the line of the scrimmage. The fact is he had to do that, too. The fact is that because he has this experience, the couple of different schemes and playing different roles in different alignments and all of that stuff, it helps you along. That experience, there's nowhere placing it. And so he shows up here. The Purdue transfer, eight career interceptions, goes to Oregon, star in that defense, Tosh LaPoi, the defensive coordinator who's coached a lot of good ones, says the best slot cover corner I've ever had. And also says he's one of the smartest DB's I've ever been around. So he comes into this week at the combine with that as his backdrop. Show's up and it's just crushing interviews. Teams are like, "Oh man, I'd love to have this kind of room." And then he gets to the field. And Dylan Thiniman ran at six foot, 201 pounds, with good arm length, 31, 3, 8, 78, and 8, wingspan, everything you look for. And the fourth fastest 40 of everyone there. And you say, "Oh, that's good." It was a 435, folks. These safeties were absolutely cooking all night. It was wild to watch. It was like one after another. The third fastest was a 433. Okay? But he runs a 435, the fourth fastest. It's elite elite. He is a 41-inch vertical, which is elite elite as well. Back and best of this group. His 10-5 broad jump, which is seventh in this group, and still really, really good. Then he gets to the, on the field. You know the gauntlet drills, one of my favorite things. It's like a guilty pleasure. I can watch it as a reality TV. Because the guys just, I mean, you're running straight line. They've gotten to where you have to run full speed. You're going to cross the field, 50 plus yards. You catch one, you catch one, and then it's like all hell breaks loose. Because you've got these quarterbacks that think they're, you know, trying to be the next, like, Joe Montana, Johnny Unites, and they're ripping it, right? And sometimes they're behind you, and they're over there. And so you've got to go full speed running on the line, kind of like a DUI test. You're sober, but it's harder, right? Yep. Thanks. And we're going full speed down the line. And this guy, he's just like, just under control. There's a band of lessons. There were some bad balls behind him. And he's plucking everything, right? Oh, man, did he have a night and a week here? Yeah. So you just watch. You know someone's going to get tagged every year. Someone gets tagged in the face with the, because they chair in the role. That's why I'm watching. Yeah, I know. You're sick. You're sick, kid. Yeah. So, Theeneman was the story, but there are a couple other guys that like, I've been, that are my guys. Trade on dukes. Yep. I knew you were going to get to this one, yep. Look at this list. I'm going to work out a manual McNeil does, McNeil Warren does EMW. I'm tired of saying that entire name. And EMW is going to ring to it. EMW has a solid, solid just average workout, but Theeneman blows the doors off the place. Then it's, it's trade-and-stukes from, from Arizona. By the way, Jed Fish, you look at the Arizona and Washington D.B.'s there in this, in the combine. They put on a show. All six two pluss and can work out. So, dukes, if you look here, almost six one, 190, runs a 433, third fastest. Who in what world is the third fastest 40 for a safety equate to 433? It's unbelievable. Vertical jump, 38. He had an awesome week, right? But Clark, next one on my list, had a really nice day. Very happy for Blood Clark. He ran a 441. Blood Clark, remember, if you were with us at the senior ball, he and Kyle Lewis, the, the linebacker. Linebacker, who some people want to say safety, he's an off-ball linebacker from Pitt. We're the two most instinctive players, guys making the most plays all week long. And I saw it from the very beginning with him in his position, coach at senior ball. And so I was like, I hope he comes out and works out as well because you take those instincts with that 6188 pound frame, the length, like this guy's got a chance to be really, really good. Yeah. So now I'm looking at stukes and saying, I don't, that doesn't get out of the second round. No. You see those interceptions, those three interceptions, or the last shift? So those stukes are Clark's. I'm talking stukes first. Okay. And then Clark with those instincts that you see in the play making ability and the versatility. These guys, I don't know that they get out of the second if they do like early third and you're getting a steal. Clark's jumps 38 inch vertical, 10, 7 broad. Yeah. He's a nice day. So all that happened then, Jaylen Kilgore runs a 4-4, 37 inch vertical, 10-10 broad, which was the best of, tied for the best of everyone there. He's a 61210 pound safety out of South Carolina. So this safety class is now starting to shape up, right? It downs being a top five pick potentially. EMW and Dylan Thineman. That's a war now. Yeah. Fights on. I, yeah, I actually had Thineman higher. I don't, I thought that was the minority in that, but yeah. Well, if you did, then you can extend it. And then stukes and Clark, and by the way, is a key Wheatley who didn't work out, really good player, AJ Halsey didn't work out, really good player. Jaylen Kilgore, I just talked about from South Carolina. That's a good group. But then there's the story of the styles family. Well, I'm really quickly Halsey ran a 4-5-2, which I think was a good time for him. He didn't do any of the other stuff, but a 2-15, he ran a 4-5-2. I like his tape. The LSU safety. This, this, yeah, I do too. He's a really good player. But Lorenzo Styles Jr. comes up, right? And if anyone watched the combine yesterday, he's interested in this stuff. And you probably are, if you're watching the show, he's the brother of Alex Styles. Who? Well, mom told us tonight. Mrs Styles is the winner. Forget them in and forget her son. Mrs Styles was the best interview of the entire week. They go to Mrs Styles and she's tweeting away. She's ex-posting away on her, you know, thumbs and she's proud, proud mama, right? She tells the story. That should be. They're asking her, you know, tell us about the boys going. It must have been a wildhouse, right? He's like, yeah, well, you know, thank goodness Lorenzo had speed because he was always running away from the trouble. And Alex was always starting the trouble. And they were like, Alex, do you mean Alex, your son's sonny? Like, yeah, well, how do you become a sonny? He's like, oh, like he caused so many problems. We named after Sonny from the God, or from a goodfellas. Oh, no way. Yeah. Oh, I mean, it's a great story. Yeah. Can you imagine having those two kids? And by the way, Lorenzo Styles shows up at six foot and a half, 194 pounds, 30 with a great all the measurables you want. He's the Combine's fastest defender. Can you imagine going to bed last night? Sonny Styles is the Michael Jordan of the Combine. Sonny Styles took what Nick Emanwari did last year and kind of like scoffed at it. Sonny Styles is the story here. All of a sudden Arville Reese's pedestrian, right? Yeah. Follow me here. So you go to bed and now you're like, my brother is the end of your competitive. But he knew. He went to bed last night. You're like, watch this. Like, he was the only one probably knew. I'll show them. Right? I'll show you a little bit. I wrote the safety class. The safety class. Right? 40 in vertical jumper. The two with safety. The two of the top measurements. The correlates to success in the NFL. I remember when I called nagging and said, "I text nagg." I said, "I'm thinking of Grayson Haltton and the Spears' Geng is to under the radar guys." But I went with Haltton. He's like, "Yeah, great." Spears' Geng would have been a really good one too. Well, he ran of 4/4? No, he didn't run. What did he run? He ran 4/3/3. So sub-4/4 were styles-- 4/3/2, so at 4/2/7, a 4/3/2, and Stukes, as I mentioned before, he ran the third fastest. He was just grinding it out with a 4/3/3. Just kidding, by. And Thiniman comes in with the fourth fastest at 4/3/5. And then there were also-- I mentioned eight guys. There were four more guys that ran a 4/4/1 or faster. Jalen Kilgore, we talked about VJ Payne from Kansas State, my guy Bud Clark from TCU, and Dalton Johnson from Arizona, another Jed Fish guy. Then we go to the vertical jump. What's considered elite? 39 inches for a tight end is considered elite. Like, you know, lower body explosion. That guy's got something. Genesis Smith with a 42 1/2 inch was the best. Then Thiniman with his 41 to Sean Singleton 39 1/2. Lorenzo Styles, the Styles family, has some genetics. With 39 inches, mom said that dad used to trick him. They made football fun. They didn't know they were doing football drills as a kid, but they were doing football drills since they were like three years old in that house. They all hit or exceeded that mark. And there were three more guys that had 38 inch vertical. Bud Clark, Fredanne Stukes, and Ahmad Moses. So that class-- it's one of the best tight end classes, depth wise and talent we've seen in a while. I really believe it. Safety or tight end? I say tight end safety. Yeah. Yeah. So many numbers. Just so much stuff flying around. Yeah. Safety class. I was talking obviously about the safeties there. Corners. Anything jump out to you? De-de-de-de-angel-a-pons 43 1/2 inch vertical is pretty impressive. Um, Dailin Everett. Yes. Did you see a 4-3-8 on tape? No. I didn't think it was speed deficient. No, but 4-3-8, that's a really good number for him. Oh, but the guy I'm obviously going to want to talk about is it going into the senior ball. All I could talk about was Chris Johnson from St. Diego State. How much I love to stay. And I felt like you just had kind of a down week. It wasn't like the bottom fell out. But you know, I just wanted more for him that week and ever since that, he's been-- I feel like he's been climbing back up. Oh, wait, I don't know how fast he is. He runs a 4-4 today. That's a really good number for him. I don't think there's a player in this in the cornerback group that-- that I-- Ticario Davis, Davis from Arizona, you could argue. You see. Had the best workout and all that. But for a player whose tape is that good, the solidifying of that with numbers that were actually-- Yeah. All of it was better for Chris Johnson. Chris Johnson's been one of men's favorite players in this draft going back to like November, okay? Remember Chris Johnson's the one he was like, I yell at my daughter Stella about Chris Johnson. I talked to my wife about Chris Johnson. I was like, Chris Johnson all-- and we were talking to Drew Fabian. It's the senior ball. And he's like, the name Chris Johnson came up and he almost jumped through the screen. He loves Chris Johnson. I like him too, but I'm not allowed to talk to the AIQ conversation too. AIQ, yes. So he's got all the things. But I didn't-- I was hopeful I thought maybe a 445, you know, I was hopeful. I would have loved the 445. He six foot, 193 corner shows up and runs a 4-4 flat tied for third in an excellent time for his size. He's not one of the undersized guys, right? 10-6, very good broad jump, 38-inch vertical. The thing that stood out to me the most man, outside of the 4-4. He was damn near flawless in the position. That's his thing, man. Smooth. You know, honestly, everyone says, smooth, he was fluid, he looked sudden, he was, you know what stood out if you really go back and watch him care about this stuff? Watch his body control. Because at the end of the day, if you don't have body control at corner, you can't be sticky. You can't stick to a fast, shifty receiver when he comes out of the top of his tree and just like the break and accelerate, you've got to have body control. You got to be able to be going fast, you know, you got to be reverting, you got to be, and you stick with it. To be sticky, you got to have control and he's got it for days. Now what was interesting is top corners, a lot of them didn't run. Right. And by the way, shame on you. Because maybe the electronic tape is messed up. Maybe the track is fast because these guys are running like record breaking times. And so you had an opportunity, like man, man, it's sort of delaying and we'll read the McShay report. And it's sort of the lens going to be the first corner back taken, right? But Jermad McCoy, where have you been, bro? What's going on there? I don't know. And I've talked to a lot of people in the league who are like, yeah, I don't know. And you know what I, you know what you want the honest? Yeah, I do. Every single one I said, we'll check out his agent. All right, moving on. Avion Tarell. The best just the honest conversation. Yeah. I hear you. This is the same conversation you had with with when you're talking to Drew with certain players at the senior bowl. And it was the same conversation we're having nagging at the senior bowl. And so, unless you know your client is not going to run at time, and maybe they come out and they run faster here because everyone seems to be running fast here this week. Yeah. And he hasn't, we haven't seen him do anything athletically competitive in over a year. It's been like 14 months now. But Jermad McCoy doesn't work out. Avion Tarell doesn't, he did the drills. But he positioned drills and looked really good. Looked actually really, really good. Now, sorry, there's a lot that took in today. He looked great in the position drills, but didn't run. DeAngelo Ponds didn't run, but he looked great in his drills and he had that vertical that was sensational. Brandon Cise, Cise, didn't run, which is surprising to me. Yeah. He don't be surprised if he's the third corner back here called. And honestly, like if he runs really well in South Carolina, don't be shocked if he's the second. Keith Abney from Arizona State and can't take Scott from Miami. They all did not run. So that opened the door for Chris Johnson. Who you see here on the list is my seventh corner. Mentor probably have him higher. I'm sure. DeAngelo Ponds, my eighth corner and honestly, I just keep waiting to kind of push him up, but that is the list. All those guys that you see there outside of maybe the first eight guys you see there, I think are legit top 50 options. I'm not saying stamp it, but they're options to get off the board in the top 50. Yeah. Eggman Ose, by the way, your tenth corner there just jumped out to me. The split's on the two. I really want to get him to the pro day. Like he's one of those guys. There's there's a handful players coming out of this that you get a weird kind of a time that doesn't match up in he ran and I think a four four something and then a four five something. So we'll be interested to see what he does at the pro day. Ticario Davis, you'll notice was not on there, but might be trying to work his way into that tenth spot, maybe ahead of Eggman Ose. Because what the good Lord only makes a few of these, we talk about this at every position, right? You don't find, tell me this, if arm length and 40 are the two most important traits that I tell you about it corner back every year, okay? You just don't find many six foot four corners with 81 inch wing spans with 33 and three eighths inch arm length that run a four four one. So you know what I do if I'm the general manager and I take it and I use a late second round pick on Ticario Davis whose tape has been up and down through his career. He started it at Arizona, transferred to Washington and went with Jed. I kind of look at my defensive coordinator and say you know what, but you figure it out. Because like if you can't do something with six four one ninety four eighty one inch wing and four four one forty and assuming we're running the right scheme, like he screams Seattle of course, right? Any variation thereof. Correct. Yeah, he's got to be in the right place, but it is interesting because I always think about Teterua Mcmillan in that Arizona, like they had that really just bad 2024 Arizona did and then these guys follow in an obviously 10 road didn't follow, but like I just feel like that was in 2023 Ticario Davis had 15 passes defended. I mean he had a year and then the wheels kind of came off on 2024 and then he was banged up last year. I always like I love these players that you could like look at something their situations. What's the story? Is there an injury? Is there a coaching change? Is something else going on? And when they were right, what do they look like? Now again, this is two years ago and you got to keep that in mind or three years ago, whatever you want to say. But in 2023 Ticario Davis was like he was going to be one of the better quarters coming out. I mean, he had a year. I think the trend we're seeing with all of these positions is and we're going to continue to drill into it and again read the McShay report, Google it like that. I feel like it's a foundation piece and it'll be interesting to see when you read it, what you think of like this is actually what's going on in NFL Rooms. And this is the conversation that's happening and it presents a scenario in which a lot of teams in the top 10 would like to move back. But a lot of teams that are sitting there in 15 to 32 and have early picks in the second round are kind of thrilled about where they are. And because we're starting to see there's more players. There's more players in that like mid first to late first, second and third. Now I think you've watched if you've watched our GM series, it's not run in fifth, sixth and seventh as deep as it normally does. So we're going to have a deficiency there with the NIL and everything going on. But I think the strength of this draft is when we get whether it's picked 15 or it's 20 somewhere in that range. Now all of a sudden everyone so it's like Eli Stowers is good. Max Claire is good at tight end. And it's safety. We just talked about we got three guys in the first, right? But what about the Stukes cat and what about you know and there's all these guys in this we just listed all those guys are like I don't think they get out of the second. So now I'm going to talk to you about this cornerback position and we know man's where Delaney's in your first and then you're going to have a variation of Jermad McCoy and avian Torella Brennan C.C. from from South Carolina, Kianta Scott and Colton Hood is another one who comes out and works out here the other tight end of the other Tennessee cornerback. And I thought he had a great day. He's he looks the part of a first round corner. Yeah. And on tape he looks the part of like yeah, the later first round corner. But now he runs almost six foot, 193 pounds, checks the boxes with his measurables, runs a 444 and he has a 40 and a half inch vertical and a 10 5 broad jump and it's worked like he just looks the part of a first round. So there's I feel like we're starting to stack guys. Every time we're done with a position here at the combine, we're stacking these guys. Yep. We're like yeah, they belong or like we didn't have them there, but he's moving up. I think the second round like pick 20 to 70. I think teams are going to be like hold hold. I don't want to pick in the top 15 necessarily. I'm sure is how not moving up and I told you it's a fireable offense. And I actually said this to a GM I was talking to today. It is a fireable offense if someone in this draft. So if you're a fan of a team and your general manager and I was and I hope to God it doesn't happen. But it's a fireable offense if you if you move into the top 15 and give away a pick for 20, 27 to 2. So okay, let's get that on the table. But I think we're going to get back to that like late first second round range. I think teams are going to be like you know what? I don't need my fifth or sixth as much as I want to get that guy in a second. You know and I think it you know it matches up with what we're seeing that there's there's some good players in that range. There's some players are going to be starters in the league. Because DeAngelo Ponds has a 43 and a half inch vertical. Avean Torella has as looks really good in his drills. Chris Johnson you just mentioned Ticario Davis. Daylan Everett we should finish with Daylan Everett. Oh Charles Demings. Big physical nasty corner from Steve and F Austin at the senior bowl. We talked in like a lot of good week there. Yeah runs a 4 4 1. I know what's his do you have a size. He's a big physical corner. He was like getting receivers faces. 4 4 1 on official 42 it might have been official 6 1 193 pounds 32 inch arms 10 and an eighth in chance. And he runs a 4 4 1 has a 42 inch vertical second best of the corner backs and 11 foot paratroche. But then there's Daylan Everett and I know you loved what you saw from him. Yeah. And he's another guy who's 6 1 in change almost 200 pounds long arms and he Toreano pride was the fastest guy of the corners we should mention. He ripped off the fastest at the time it was the fastest 40 yard dash until the safety started to run and it was a 4 3 6. The second fastest was Daylan Everett who if you if you remember if you watch Georgia right Daylan Everett was this long physical corner really good tackler kind of a Kirby smart guy. Unlike Kirby smart former DB and like coaches he got like the tape was up and down there was inconsistency it was it was a lot of big plays in the biggest moments. And then there were some plays where it's like man it's really a scene. Yeah you know and there's like given it. But but the traits are all there. He runs a second fastest 40 as I said 4 3 8 37 1/2 inch vertical 10 4 brought like he just had he had a good workout as well. A lot of guys help themselves here man it's been a really good couple days it's been fun. And apparently these receivers are running tomorrow. I heard Tate's not doing anything else but he's running. Yes. What do I'm a kind of limit set. I honestly have not I'm dead to the world the last 24 hours. Why is he why is he viral. If I could explain something. Oh okay you can. I think it's probably taken a little out like if you I would like to see the whole thing before but it's just an interesting cast. Oh I had no idea there's something going on here okay. I did ask a GM. We were talking about the top three receivers including lemon Tate and Tyson. He was talking about the interviews I was like well right because he's he was being coy like he's kind of and I'm like well rank of he's like well he's like Tate and he's like Tate and Tyson were they were great. And I was like okay so that means and he's like he's like a Denzel Boston was you know I'm like so okay so and then I see this viral thing so I don't I haven't heard anything bad about him but I think that he might just be a little bit but you know I don't know we'll see interesting but I but to my point Denzel Boston's running Malachi I feel running a lot of these guys are running and I think it's gonna be a wild day. Get better. I'm certain it's in a corner here I feel like today was better than yesterday. Well today was horrible for you but right now you show I mean that I feel like oh yeah I was way buildingless then. But we're thrilled to share this interview too. Joe RT's has been a friend of ours for 25 years as he referenced in this video when he says yeah we were on the bus together. He literally jumped on the bus with us going from like mobile to somewhere right back in the day. We've known Joe through Joe RT's the second year now general manager or third this will be year. This is the third draft for the for the the chargers with Harbott and honestly the stories here the harbott stuff that it's it's fun it's really cool to see it's as a friend of his for 25 years Joe's one of those guys where I don't know that he has an enemy but he's not going to back down to anything. He's the most respected person across the board of all the people that I love in this industry. Okay and he's a guy that did it from the ground up like if you were to write a book about like the process of going from like in turn to grinding out is a like almost like a grad assistant if you will to scouting and paying your dues and on the road and doing all the things the right way and getting better at your craft every year so that when you get your shot what do you say 20 something years later yeah and you'll see in this interview you're ready for it and you give Jim Harbaugh a call during his national championship run and you say hey man you ready to go do this and Jim's answer is with you yeah let's go do it this interview is awesome I hope you enjoy it to Joe Ortiz from the Chargers man we've been looking forward to this one huh Joe Ortiz Chargers GM knowing you for 20 plus years but I don't want to date ourselves but going back to the Ravens obviously Joe Douglas and the Whiteles and I feel like kind of extended extended football family so that's it's great to have you here Fred Beer your path is like the traditional right way and when I think about like what you've done and how hard you worked and I can't think of many guys in your position who like really truly did it the right way you came in under a Hall of Famer and Ozzin Newsome right you earned your stripes like grinding it out and even towards like your last couple years a couple few years with the Ravens and kind of knowing people there and behind the scenes and in the league that you had different opportunities right and then you wind up taking the Chargers job let's start here and then I want to kind of go back to what got you to where you are but I want to start with I know you had some opportunities over time but this is the one you kind of chose why was this the right fit for you oh well I mean I had a pre-existing relationship with Jim and it was it was actually fun like when I interviewed with the with the giants my it was my first GM interview he was one of the top two guys along my list you know and I called him at time and obviously working with John you know the relationship grew with Jim and so he was the guy one of the guys I wanted to partner up with and that I went in there selling hey I think he'd work with me and then had a couple other opportunities and but this one the quarterback I knew they they they wanted Jim and it was fun because I got reached out to and knew I was going to have an opportunity interview and I called him and you know he was in the middle of a national championship run yeah Michigan and I just asked him I said hey you know I know I know I'm getting an interview and I know they really are interested in you would you would you do it he's like with you yeah let's do it and and so just say absolutely you'd be like it'd be like the way you guys do things in Baltimore you know that was like 100% you're actually doing a good impersonation yeah so like a sass up person so but like I'm just like I'm thinking about the conversation we had in that this summer night when I was driving home and it was just like man this would be awesome if it works out you know and so you know he they hired him on I think Tuesday and I came in on a Friday before the ABC title game and interview a Thursday and just felt great and I just you know hope man hope they offer me the job and just you know you got their ownership the organization new facility they were building obviously Justin Herbert and just really felt like family it was you know when I interviewed with them the initial zoom I hung up the zoom call and he called my wife right away I was like this is it like this is the place like it's it feels like Baltimore it feels like people have been there for a long time they appreciate the organization and you know that that type of stability really appealed to me so you know hoping that you know I get a shot at I've spent a little bit of time around Jim you know covering Michigan games did some stuff with with them they're Michigan and he's like almost a crazy like a fox and like you know but I know some of the stories of like the you know just like you kind of right but there's a genius behind all the right yeah 100 percent peel back the curtain for us a little bit like give us an example or a day to day like what's it like because you just you kind of never know what's happening but that's also what makes him so unique and special yeah he what he just he loves everyone and that's genuine that's really like he's such an energy giver like the first you my first day working with him which is you just felt the the energy walking in the room the excitement the desire to win you know let's do everything we can but the mind is like it did it's so creative and he hears everything and he processes much faster than the normal person and but just you know he's always thinking how can we do things you know how do we get better are we doing enough but the whole time are we are we doing it and having fun doing it right I think that's what you know him and I get along so well about because like yeah let's go work hard but let's go have fun while we're doing it and and every day man it's it's a joy to go into work you know so how many years were you with us 26 years in Baltimore and and so you've got you've learned from one of the great and like the tree that's kind of gone on and blossomed from from that scouting department and so you're and then how many 26 year by god so you were as a young scout and as you're growing and college director moving up you're always formulating in the back of your mind like one day when it's mine yeah I'm going to take all these things and like even Elliott Wolf talking about Ron Wolf like you know one day if I can get my shot I'm going to take all these things from from my old man but also like I want to what was that process like when you finally become the head head guy and you've got all these principles you learn from one of the great places in the NFL and but you know you want to kind of put your little spin and whatever it is on it and you're dealing with Jim right right so what what was that like in terms of meshing all those things yeah you know I think you know obviously in Baltimore we believed in the process and it was proven and we were consistent with it so first and foremost that's what I was bringing you know that Ozzy and still that we all learned that Eric when he became Jim he tweaked and he put his little spin on it and and would you just wash the whole time you know a 22 year old personnel assistant yeah all the way up to director a player personnel you you're getting more opportunities getting more you know responsibilities thrown on you but you're the whole time you're learning and it's after my first year on the job someone asked me like you know what what did you learn the most and your first year as a GM and I learned how much I learned you know like I didn't realize how much I was absorbing because you don't feel like you're in school you don't feel like you're in class you're just doing your job and as involved as an Ozzy and Eric had us you know you don't realize how much you're pulling down from them and so then when you get a chance to operate it's like second nature like this is what this is what you do here and you don't realize how much they're preparing and that's cool it was really cool so yeah you take the processes that you believe in and then you throw your little spin on it you know and but you stay true to the process definitely yeah but she's gonna kill me yes me before these things one of them I ask and then I always switch it up so I'm gonna switch it up again well the other day we're talking to Ellie wolf right and we're not going in this direction but yeah we're talking to Ellie right when we're just kind of talking about background yeah watch your 10 years old watch your tape and right about with your old man and then he pops in with his first question he's like will Campbell's arm like that always so I'm sure you actually have been doing this all like I just had you know I know I had some thoughts we're positive all right go ahead we're on to Gatson the tight end yeah I watched him in Syracuse and I just couldn't I just didn't see it I didn't see the projection I mean if I like Syracuse ran the ball what five ten times a game that year yeah yeah five yeah five ten times a game that year they were just airing it out he's running these hits routes and I'm like he's a talented kid obviously he comes in it makes you know carves out a role for you guys immediately I want to know what you were seeing in that player and then you guys have had some success with these mid-round guys already yeah what are you looking for a mid-round pick obviously you're not saying yourself I'm gonna get a probe over here what are you looking for in the middle yeah I think you know with all players you look for that competitiveness and you can see it in different ways you know like you talk about OG okay yeah he didn't he wasn't an attached why right but when he was in the slot how did he block what type of effort did he get on the safety on the backers you know like you saw move his stick his hands and face in there and move his feet now okay yeah we got to work on technique we got to work on strength and development and those are the things when you take a tight end in the six round or fifth round that we took around a like those are the things they're gonna come but the talent was there and the competitor was there so that goes with a lot of the guys that we've had success with on day three you know uh Tarheed stills another one you know yeah you could shoot holes and if you watch a POA team like oh he gave up some touchdowns but yeah look how competitive he is how fast the athletic he is and look at the way he processes and closes on the football and so you it's easy to poke holes in guys and uh this is something you learn from Ozzy and Eric what can they do you know and what where can they help and I think if you look at it from that lens then you develop their their areas where they need improvement I just had a flashback right sitting in like the conrad hotel yeah and having like adjacent rooms with the Joe Douglas and Andy would come in and yeah and we were with Kevin Whitele and um and knowing knowing part of the process knowing how hard the scouts grinded right probably one of the hardest places to work I would say it but all in a positive way in the NFL is a young scout but also pays really well we can care of family going to be developed right yeah I also could remember them coming in after a long day of meetings and all that and like throwing bags on the ground and like I'm effing this because like because the the passion and some of the debates and the discussions on players you know yeah um and you would mention the process like sticking with the process what is it about the Baltimore process and I like the grading scale and all this but what is it specifically about that process that has been so successful yeah I think it's it's the way we scout you know it's the way we evaluated players there but there's also a competitive environment in that it's part of it right yeah it is part of it then you mentioned Joe and you mentioned Andy and Kevin myself and Chad Alexander like you know Daniel Jeremiah was and yeah yeah Jeremiah Washburn you know go back before that when I first started Terry McDonough was there Ron Marston act the legend like the legend he'll fill Savage was the director of college scouting and obviously Eric was in there and you you look at the guy across from you or next to you and like I got to be as good as him I got to be better than him yeah so like you know so you just you're so he's pretty good yeah he's really so what do I got to do to get better well I got to be more detailed in my reports I got to know everything about the player because you know you're getting challenged you're gonna be challenged right and you don't you know we we'd sit there and say hey you know if you're looking around trying to figure out who the worst scouting the room is and you can't find them you got a problem yeah right so like but it was that type of competitiveness in there but it was also fun and it's just sticking to the the script the calendar you know like hey this is how we're gonna do it and there's just a way you know we're gonna look for high character guys obviously big fast explosives smart and instinctive players but you know they got to be wired the right way fit the raven culture and and that's one of the things I carried forward to Los Angeles is like we're looking for a specific type of player and they have to be wired right and fit our culture and and you just trust it you evaluate it you go through the the college as in terms of the value and in college you go through the college season you know you have your draft board you set it in February come to the combine and follow the coaches after that and but you just trust the grades and trust the evaluations and don't hear the noise you know yeah trust your eyes or sand yeah that's cool you've had I mean you guys you're close it feels like you're close yeah and when you watch that team the way you watch your team the way it ended the year it just felt like the injuries caught up right you don't you only have a limited number of resources like it'd be great if you can go out and sign all these guys to make sure you're good how do you address that with the injuries and addressing depth and making sure that you're you're good all around but make sure you're you're good in those spots that maybe you've had some injuries in the past yeah yeah it's funny because our first year I think we played nine different safeties and or and and every corner that was on the roster and then we were signing like we got decimated in the second year right and and so this year it's like okay let's throw a little more into the secondary and then it gets the online you know and we but what you when we first got there you know depth building depth was you know one we were 50 million over the cap so we had no money to spend we had to make hard decisions on some which was difficult and we made them and we just were literally just shopping at low budget you know for agency and the goal was just to get as many quality vets in there that we believed in certainly maybe a lot of them were undervalued and they produced force but get numbers get build the depth of the team up and then can you know hit the draft has some success in the draft and then do it again next year and and so our goal was to really build up the depth and I think we did a good job of that each year the roster got better positionally and that's the goal every year you know right and so that doesn't stop you know I think that's one thing I learned you're always it's like a house that you're renovating always you know like you know good foundation you got everything's there the supports to that you know and then just you keep changing the rooms you know but you're always trying to upgrade each room and maybe working on two rooms at once you know but you know you can't ignore any position yeah you want to you know certainly we were beat up on the old line this year right and running back well you know some of our linemen are coming back healthy they could be healthier in the backfield this year but you don't want to focus all your attention there and let something else fall right me the organizations are I mean offense attack with the organizations are invested a lot share so if you're throwing more and more resources like that I just think it's interesting yeah how much time do you just got me thinking because honestly like some of the injury stuff way predated you with the Chargers and like you know here's nonsense about the 49ers and some of that's been but how much time is spent like do you exhaust all these things to try to figure out like are the things that we can do to try to prevent like what what goes into the medical the yeah all that stuff well we got a great medical team in in Los Angeles and the route of it is sometimes injuries can be okay we have a rash of soft tissue injuries are what are we doing is our nutrition yeah we're not hydrating enough or are we on our our feet too much are we running too much you know you look at the GPS yep we got to may yards and you know in over the week of practice people think you just draft right so you don't think you look at you look at that you can assess that but the route of it is issue they were like injuries they were they wasn't soft it's soft tissue stuff if you got guys with you know injure in their legs be whether they're being fallen on or kicked right you know that's it's kind of like flukeish you know and so it just you chalk that up to bad luck you know and unfortunately but you know more structures yeah yeah yeah so but I think you pay attention you know for rash of injuries come up what are we doing are we are we do we need to scale back some a little bit you know or is the diet the intake what the players are taking in are they getting enough nutrition you know yeah and certainly hydration well for we're on the time good yeah so you're at the combine you get a medical report on every player these guys go through a oh yeah very intense physical for better way saying it do you when you have a certain number of players that you go back with your do you have your medical staff will get specifically or do you just trust what you give from the combine well there's some our staff is here everyone staff is here yeah so doctor the you know I don't know the exact way it's done now it's a little it's changed a little bit but they'll have the doctor look at basically each body part and this you know and then our doctors will look at the imaging and they're here and okay and they'll bring the players in and talk about some of the injuries and but or to present it but our doctors look at the imaging as well and they'll put a medical grade on that player and so it's our grade and you know if there's some questions afterwards we may bring that player back to Los Angeles to see you know get another look at it we want to take another look at it was every team have the medical staff here so there's if there's just imagining a room full of 30 doctors there's a bunch of different rooms and you you actually put like yeah there's like a I don't you know there's a certain body part in each room yeah they cover gen med here they cover lower body here you know and so you have your doctors you know no mess around there yeah I feel like men should go through that medical you know just for like the show yeah right you know they'd be like we have bad news yeah it's not looking good yeah I don't care about the results I just kind of wanted I didn't want a camera to follow you have like how much do you need to do you know how invasive that must be um I think you're like I don't know maybe seventh eighth ninth general manager we we've sat down and done this with I just kind of counting through my I think just about every one of them had drafted and relatively recently their quarterback yeah you obviously walk into a situation which is rare where you have a superstar quarter yeah right yeah um and and now you have come off this year with the injuries you feel like you've got a roster they can legitimately like you can make a run just keep to keep with the process right is there any pressure you start to feel and I'm just like being on like this guy is so good and we're like we've got to make sure or he had just I'm just curious like personally like how you know I win Jim yeah I wouldn't call it pressure it's just desire competitiveness like I I want it we want to win yeah you know and we will obviously we all have the same goal when the Superbowl and yes it's unique coming in and having Justin Herbert as your starting point like not having to fix that right like you know and that that I I don't overlook that you know yeah it it like came into a unique opportunity and one that's not afforded to a lot of new GMs and uh but I look at it's my responsibility it's our responsibility to make the team as good as we can to support Justin and and give him the chance because there's no doubt and he's a playoff quarterback every year he steps on the field and so our goal is yeah get there every year but get provide him with the team that can really make the run and win it all yeah I mean I think he's an MVP guy like I think he's that isn't yeah really I'm biased but yeah what he what he did for us last year you know it just it is such a rare competitor such a inspiring competitor in leader like just he's out there you know I feel like he's grown into that too like it was always there but I think he's like from because I met with him and did a couple games in college it cut not introverted at all but like wasn't a tack dog you know and I feel like I'm I've seen in the last couple years is really like blossoming in that yeah maybe it's so competitive and uh he has such a desire to succeed for the organization yeah for everyone around him and he's so appreciative of everyone around him and says like he doesn't want to fail you we can't fail him you know it's so like it's it's a circle of everyone trying to yeah help each other and he and he kind of leads that and him guys like him and Derwin and Khalil it's just like you just watch those guys and they're the hardest workers every day like in practice when we're in special teams Justin's over there and the side field running gasters like 50 hard gasters just for 15 minutes you know just because he's going to outwork everyone so it's he's that's awesome how do you not yeah just do everything you can to yeah support those guys you know it's what's interesting about that there's I'm thinking this tonight and I hear you both right but at the same time you got to play this guy called Patrick Mahomes twice a year every year and you got to win your division first so it's that balance right you're gonna have to build them around her but do you better have a defense that you compete with with that guy too right and that's that's how you help your quarterback too right is it okay give them a bunch of weapons well defense is a weapon because they're getting them ball back yeah you're speaking to chase lane I've done so many studies on this man like he thinks that's the way you get a quarterback you better you better find a defense yeah gets him that he can make up for a couple sins on the offensive side but yeah we get to work back to win the game on the last drive make sure you win the game on the last drive right yeah yeah so um but yeah no like it's it's it's a great division you kidding me yeah yeah within uh the cool thing is coming from Baltimore well we got Pittsburgh you know we got Cincinnati you know Cleveland had some good years like murderers right yeah he had to work to win the division that's how you want to get there you want to yeah you want to earn it and uh that's so that's what we're trying to do you got to go win in Denver you got to go in case that's that's no joke man yeah and the Raiders they're coming back you know so yeah it's it's going to be a fun division uh I've got five questions I ask everybody but I I want to I want to I've got to ask like I actually spent I probably did like 20 games from Michigan for some reason on the sideline watching Jim with his quarterback like punching him before playing K like all the crazy and I'll never forget watching him like one of the first times they caught like he went to like go do the armor thing on Justin he like kind of didn't know what was going on you know um there's got to be give us one story or just something between those two interacting because Jim is like he he unless you've been around him there's nobody like him and you can you know anything between those two that you've seen it's just yes so like again like Jim he's he's super competitive right yeah and uh the one that stands out my head with with with them is Jim likes to play catch like catch the ball every pregame it's just on there's video out there yeah yeah it's just it was just so the the day it happened was just so funny because like Jim was having a bad not a bad day but he just wasn't having a perfect day catching the ball and he was just getting Justin was like piping him and yeah and Jim like you know it I think he started taking some off because I was struggling you know but he's like you know that like Jim's like you know come on you know don't light up yeah it's like really important to him it's not some people think it's like an act they got actually levels different yeah it's really important that he goes out there and catches the ball well and put you know that my first year in the league Jim was our starting quarterback in Baltimore my very first year in Baltimore I didn't know that yeah and I had like you know back then you didn't have a lot of assistance and managers like assistant managers so him he'd warm up practice and like pepper my hands with they can give us gloves to catch the ball then so my hands would be all red and like I feel like swallowing but but there was like he broke his hand in a game and just you know kept on playing yeah he's not right there's no like he's not coming out of the game yeah unless the bone is sticking unless they take you off the carry off the field that's just that's his mindset man it's just kind of just trickles down through the whole organization all right let's run through these questions right I think we have a sense because we know kind of the the Ravenway and what you grew up in but how big is your final board you get to draft weekend and that's it right in front of you typically on average give us a ballpark um I'd say it's gotten bigger over the years you know it just I think just you pour more time into more players but you're probably talking about truly draftable candidates probably 180 to around 180 190 somewhere in there and you know you want to shoot for like you shoot for 150 yeah that's your goal your top 150 it's hard to say um but but then you get to 150 you're like okay yeah you know this guy would be worth taking in the sixth round yeah right so it probably gets it goes from 150 to about 170 180 you know just depending on the year you finally get to this this position 2024 um so far being the head guy one of 32 in the league the country's most like popular sport what's your favorite part still about this job for you it's just being part of a team like just the relationships and the building like yeah and it's the job the title change responsibility has changed but when I got the job everyone said don't change who you are yeah I'm not I they hired me so what I love is relationships and the competitive you know the the competitiveness is what you love but like the job itself is just the ability to just lead people lead the process but just develop relationships and and help other she don't yeah so we got a good gig but the the winning and like that team part is this a little different it's a hard part stay on the outside looking in no like no I'm not here again sitting in the hotel and the guys coming in from scouting meeting like I know what it's what I don't have to do which I don't begrudge but that that parts hard yeah all right so now you get the hedge I mean you kind of touched on it but before but of all the things you have to do now as a general manager what's the least favorite or the part that you just would rather be spending your time on something else besides what well I'll you know cutting guys is never fun yeah you know that's that and I've done that in the past but I still like to do it as a general manager I like to talk to them but that's that's not that's my least favorite part yeah you know moving on from a player whether it's cutting them trading them you know we traded it lowe this year yeah and that was truly the hardest conversations I've conversation I've ever had with a player because why that one he's because he's such a fantastic player it was a fantastic teammate person just did everything everything and so but you know it was an opportunity for us to add a doffe and where we needed past fresh and we had depth at safety but you're telling a guy that hey you know it's not that I don't want you it's just I need somebody more than you and that was and you're talking about a great teammate and member of the organization yeah those those things aren't fun but it's part of the business yeah so all right tell me about a time that you failed at something important and what you learned from that geez I kind of throw that on people I feel like I should be talking that's the head I know it is the heaviest one yeah I don't want to like for warn I'm just gonna talk now so you can kind of think through it yeah but I do feel like I drop it and then there's this weird silence and there should be and I appreciate people every single person is like set their thoughts and so we're buying you some more time yeah you know I'd say honestly it fails as an scout as an evaluator it's important for you to know everything about the players and not just the e-vow right but just the person and there's been time where I didn't know the guy well enough and and there's been times where we've taken that player and they just you know a lack of knowing everything affected you know the decision we took him and and he the works came through so it's I think that's part of it and that's how the process in Baltimore has grown so well it's just like know everything about the guy yeah and so we you know in Baltimore and Eric put us into a a bunch of committees and and we kind of evolved and now we look at players makeup and and background and and just football character and their fit and you know I think I'd say that's one of the areas that really helped me like hey let's let's not we can miss on the player we can miss on the thing right we let's not miss on the person yeah and so that's probably an area that you know where I where I've failed I've missed on on some playing there's been playing the players in in 28 years you know that's happened on players like we didn't pick you know but you saw well gosh you know I didn't realize that about him or I didn't I didn't know it was that much of a concern and so I just always keep asking always keep probably guys you know as a gym like we are human yeah and one scout can miss something maybe doesn't have the right the relationship with the right person sure and so like a checks and balances to make sure yeah and that's that's the hard part like you talk about the relationships like you know scouts it's a relationship business because we're going into colleges and we're asking them about players well what are the colleges one they want their players to go as high as possible because it reflects well on them and but you got to know you got to get to the bottom of those guys and it's about building relationships and you know that's that's something they did very well in Baltimore and so we're doing well in Los Angeles. It's made me think one of the first things a Kevin White was because Kevin worked with us for 10 years right yeah one of the first things he said when I checked in with him after he was with the Ravens for a full you know full fall and all that it was he looked at me like almost like a deer in head like he's like it is a relationship based business man like you gotta get he's like I learned early got to get to know these people and actually care yeah don't ask them how they're doing and just keep walking on like actually sit down maybe bringing some like coffee and donuts or something or whatever it is like you got to get to know and that takes time but without that those relationships I've nothing you know and I mean that's what football is that's what all sports are yeah you know it's like listen you know people move around you know people people get fired they get hired like you know you build relationships with with other people in the profession and and where we know we care about each other you know I've been on the bus with you guys yeah it's like you know it's just yeah you know we know what you're doing you know what we're doing like there's a trust yeah there's a trust and there was back then yep an appreciation for what we're all trying to accomplish in this job and you know you show that towards someone and you know it's a two way street absolutely so all right last one and definitely the most important one yeah I kind of I broke bread with you I'm hopeful that you're gonna come through in this one talk to me about draft weekend spread how much emphasis goes into it from you now that you're the captain of the ship are you making sure the food is right do you like to eat during the draft after the like talk me through the whole thing and please don't tell me that you just go down to the what was the one answer we're gonsy was a grab and go guy yeah Borgonsy right poor guy awesome dude we asked him what he does he goes on kind of a grab and go guy I was like I don't even know what that means yeah I can raise you know yeah but like what are we doing you know we have a good me we're one way of wolf gang puck that does the catering at our facility and that we're talking yeah like I mean like try tips or lines with drizzle it's all I mean it's great this is just that's the catering all the time all the time like so that's like a jumping off I it's really hard for me to say our draft night raid spread is any better than you know a Monday you know Monday or Tuesday yeah during the season it's a little better but our victory nights for the best you know we get the time off stakes out but so I'm from the east coast yeah I born and a Philly raisin Delaware been eating blue crabs my whole life nice and love Maryland crab soup and I don't know what year it was but at some point in Baltimore we had Maryland crab soup on Thursday night first night of the draft so then I they allowed me to start you know they check the menu of me I'm like well just make sure Steve has his fry shrimp Steve a shot yeah Steve has his fry shrimp and make sure we have Maryland crab soup and so my first year in Los Angeles I'm like that there anything you want for draft night yeah I'm sure it's going to be great but can we get Maryland crab soup and sure enough they got a well tenel tenel with Baltimore yeah runs the calf you know the catering yep she her and Casey who's the chef they made a batch of Maryland crab soup frozen up send it out there to me and then the people Wolfgang got the right you know they made they got their own right yeah so I know the food's going to be good and that's really all eat I'll eat a bowl of mayor I'll just make sure before we pick I eat a bowl of Maryland crab soup and then and then I probably like Mike and I'll just graze and yeah yeah pick here pick there you know so that's great that that's what I'm looking yeah I love that yeah I love that that's a much that's a much I really appreciate it I appreciate you guys yeah absolutely okay let's be 21 plus in present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 plus in present in DC gambling problem call 1 800 gambler or visit rg-help.com call 1 8 8 8 7 8 9 7 7 7 7 7 or visit cc pg.org/chat in Connecticut or visit md gambling help.org in Maryland hope is here visit gambling help line ma.org or call 1 800 3 2 7 5 0 5 0 for 24 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1 8 7 7 8 hope and why or text hope and why in New York for Louisiana call 1 8 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 8 6 7 [BLANK_AUDIO]