David Parker Ray - The ToyBox Killer

[Music] Welcome everyone to episode 16 of True Crime All the Time. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime, my Gibson, Gibby, what's the word? What's happening man? Not much. Ready to do this great story we've got picked out for everybody. It's a great story but it's a sick one. It is sick. It really is. I mean we come up with some of the sicker and this is one of the sickest ones. We say that a lot but it's like we keep topping. It's pretty sick. In the sickness level. Yeah. Somehow. You know got to give a shout out to a couple new supporters of the show. Marcy is our newest Patreon supporter so big thanks goes out to Marcy and also a thank you to Samantha. She actually made a contribution through PayPal. Oh cool. Well thank you both. Yeah thanks to both of you very much. As always visit our website at TrueCrimAllTheTime.com. You'll find all of our contact information, social media, email, voicemail. We haven't had a voicemail in a while. Yeah it's been a while. So if anybody wants to throw one out there. Lindsay. We'll play it. It probably was. Lindsay. Yeah. You can support the show at patreon.com/TrueCrimAllTheTime or through PayPal like Samantha did. And definitely don't forget about our new podcast TrueCrimAllTheTime Unsolved. If you haven't checked it out. If you haven't subscribed. Definitely do that. You know it's the same format as this one as TrueCrimAllTheTime. The only difference is we pick unsolved cases. That's the only difference. All right Gibby. So today we are talking about David Parker Ray. Yeah. What's his nickname Mike? The toy box killer. I wouldn't kind of jumped out at me. Yeah. You know this guy's was a serial rapist and suspected serial killer. And there again we'll cover why we're using the word suspected as we go along. But you know his crimes probably spanned 40 years. Yeah. Went undetected for 40 years. Because estimate what? How many? As many as 60 I've seen. Suspected. We're saying suspected because technically they never found any bodies. Right. Which you know it's kind of hard to you know we know it's hard to convict murder. Right. Without the body. Without a body. It can be done but it becomes harder. It's a pretty strong evidence. Oh there's a yeah there was a lot of evidence and you know we'll go through that. You know and also he was accused by his accomplices of killing people and suspected by police. Like as we said to have murdered as many as 60 people in both Arizona and New Mexico. Yeah. So as we start you know I want to play this clip of David Parker Ray. I get my excitement from making a moment happy. My trailer had numerous sex toys in it. Of different types. All different finishes. I got pleasure out of the woman getting pleasure. I did what they wanted me to do. So yeah. Creepy. Creepy. So that's not sure they were that willing. No I I I'm calling BS on some of the stuff he's saying there. Absolutely. You know he made it sound like he was doing him a favor. Yeah doing these these women a favor and as we go along everybody will see that definitely wasn't the case. You know he mentions in there his trailer and and as we'll talk about his trailer is is what he called his toy box. Yeah. And that's how you got the the nickname the toy box killer. The $100,000 toy box or the somebody else describes it as the $100,000 torture dungeon. Just the pictures I saw alone freaked me out man. Oh my gosh yeah if you go online and look at there is a lot of pictures of the trailer. So let's talk about David Parker Ray's early life. There's not a ton that's known you know a lot a lot of times on these episodes we have a lot of information but there wasn't a whole lot. We do know he was born in November of 1939 in a place called the I'm gonna call it Berlin New Mexico or Bailyn. Somebody's gonna correct me but that's okay. You know as a child he lived with his grandfather but he still saw his father. I don't know where his mother was in this whole picture but he had contact with his father but apparently his father was was a mean guy and beating so his grandfather. Yeah and his grandfather wasn't the best guy. So yeah he grew up with with that. He had a younger sister but they were split up pretty early I think when his grandmother died. You know we talk about how people did in school a lot and rated he did very poorly by all accounts. Yeah and he was bullied. I'll say he was picked on wasn't he? Yeah he's picked on a lot in school. Talked about because he was shy around girls. Not sure why that's a reason to be picked on but you know kids back then especially you know bullying is a big deal today. Back then it wasn't there was a lot of bullying that went un. Report it. Yes unreported thank you. So you know when we get into his teenage years Gibbs you know this is where he starts abusing alcohol and drugs. Yeah and this is cycle before. Do what? I've seen this cycle before. Yeah I mean we see this a lot right bad childhood mixed with abuse of alcohol and drugs. Abuse of family. Abuse of family. It's a you know like we said he it's around this time that his sister discovered some drawings. That ray had done and these were not drawings that you would normally see it associate with the teenager. Right you know we're talking about sadomasochism erotic bondage so at this point in an early age he's into some freaky stuff. Not what you would have thought you would have fine back and gosh it would have been what early 50s because he was born in 39 so you know think about that. Yeah so as a teenager that would have been the 50s. Yeah even even more strange back then. Absolutely. Then it would be it wouldn't be great today but in the 50s it would have been for sure something more rare. Yeah that's definitely not leave it to be ver. So as ray gets into adulthood he gets a job as a mechanic and he does some time in the military and again like you said right see we've seen this before now there there was a lot of guys in the military back then this is kind of paralleling laken in a little and this story is is very laken English. Yeah it is. That's that's a word I can not work. Go ahead and we'll go we'll go with it anyway. Ferguson word. Yeah if you if you remember back to laken ang or if you haven't heard it you know they were both in the in the military. Now he apparently didn't I not that I read he didn't have any problems while he was in the military. You know he got an honorable discharge. After the military he was married four times. Four times. Yeah. Each one ending in divorce you know out of those four marriages he had two daughters. Yeah. One of the daughters he lived with for a period of time. So it's at some point after this that that David Ray moves to elephant but new Mexico which is pretty close to the town of truth or consequences which I love that name. Yeah. Have you been there? I have it. I'm shocked. I know. Every episode you say you've been to the place that we're talking about. So what about truth or consequences do you know anything about the name? I don't. Because obviously it's a weird name. That is a weird name. So apparently and I'm sure I'm going to get some of these details wrong and somebody will correct me but back in the 50s there was a radio show called Truth or Consequences. They ran some kind of deal on the show that basically said the first town that would rename itself to be called Truth or Consequences they would air the radio show on its 10th anniversary from this town. Oh. So I don't know how big of a deal it was but this town called Hot Springs, right, which was its original name. I guess got together and said, hey, we'll do it. - Let's do it. - And they officially changed their name to Truth or Consequences. And so they did that 10th anniversary show, I think, from Truth or Consequences. But also after that, the guy that did this show, apparently he would go there every year for like the next 50 years. - Out of guilt. - I don't know, out of something. - I'm gonna change your name. - That he made them change your name. - So is it still the same? - Yeah, it's still Truth or Consequences, really. I always just get a kick out of it 'cause I like the name. So let's get into a little bit of the Toybox nickname, right? 'Cause every time you see David Parker Ray, you will see the Toybox killer, right? So that was his nickname. - Right. - And I think you mentioned the fact that he had spent $100,000 to basically transform some type of, I don't know if it was a motor home or it was a truck with a camper on it, but it was something like that. - It was an old mobile home. - Yeah. - And he spent all of this money to transform the inside of this into a torture den. And apparently it had whips, chains, cattle prods, a gynecology chair, - Spreader bars. - Spreader bars, whatever the hell that is. And just all kinds of other devices. And most of them were for inducing some type of pain on his eventual victims. - Surgical steel tables. - Yeah, just all kinds of weird stuff. I mean, well, think about it. I don't know when he spent this $100,000, but depending on what year it was, I mean, $100,000 is a lot of money today. - Oh, yeah, it'd be like spending $250 today. - Right, so whenever he did this, if it was 30, 40 years ago, - Yeah. - First of all, where the hell did he get $100,000? - Yeah, where did he get all this equipment? But not somebody who asked him questions. I mean, he had a lot of medical stuff in there. He even had a lower grade generator that he used to do a little shock treatment on his victims. - So Ray Kiddnapp's his first victim by drugging her, gets her back to this motor home, or the toy box, as we'll call it. And basically proceeds to sexually assault her for a number of days without mercy. And he ultimately kills her. Now we find this out much later, right? At the time, nobody knows any of this is going on. So he continues doing this for a while. Like we said, it's impossible to nail down the total number of victims. Because number one, they haven't found the bodies. But eventually he brings in his girlfriend. - He does. - Cynthia Hindi, and he's Cindy Hindi, which is kind of hard to say. But, and she starts to help him in this crazy sexual fetish that he has. - Yeah, starts helping what? She finds it helps finds the victims. - Yeah, she participates in a lot of the facets of these crimes. - Right. - And the two of them, along with some other accomplices that get brought in later, probably tortured at least 40 women. Over some period of time. - A lot of victims. - And by all accounts, they made a number of snuff films to document what they were doing. And again, I mean, to me, that goes back to Lincoln. - Lincoln England, right? - There are a lot of similarities between this story and the Lincoln England that we did. So, one thing that Parker does is he makes a tape and it's kind of a famous tape. It's really hard to find. I couldn't find the whole thing on the internet. What you can find is the transcripts. And there's a whole bunch of people that will read it, but it's not his voice. But what I was able to find are a bunch of different snippets of him reading parts of it. So I want to play this because it's very important and then we'll talk about it. - Your wrists and ankles are changed and you're gagged because you're not going to like the way I do it. You're going to be kept here, naked, and shamed out. I say that I'm cold and bad and mis- and I treat people like I do objects as a means to mouth pleasure. And I suppose you're right to certain extent. - You are expendable. It may sound harsh and cold, but I won't have any qualms at all about slicing your throat. You are obviously here against your will. You'll be raped thoroughly and repeatedly in every hole you've got. You're going to be kept like an animal. As far as I'm concerned, you're a pretty piece of meat. You're not going to remember a fucking thing about this little adventure. - Be smart and be a survivor. Have a nice day. - All right, so. - Wow. - I mean, imagine that you wake up after being drugged probably, you're in this, you're chained up in this toy box and you have to listen. - For one, I understand this was a pretty long tape. - Oh, yeah, I mean, I read the transcript of the one and I mean, it's very detailed. - It could have been 20, 30 minutes for all I know. - Oh, I think probably it was. - And so my understanding is he would play this tape when the person that he had kidnapped would come around. They would have to listen to this. I mean, just imagine the fear that that person had to be experiencing at that point. - Sure. - Not knowing where you're at on a cold table chained, looking around seeing all the different objects around, wondering what's this about. And then hear that, this is voice alone, creepywood. But then hear what he says. - He said, "Necad," which always freaks me out. - And that was some of the clean stuff that you could do. - Yeah, so that, I mean, that's just a small snippet of it, but you can imagine that most of the descriptions on the tape is much worse than what you just heard there. Most of the people that David Parker Ray and ultimately Cindy Hindi would help him out with, the most of the people that they would kidnap, they were sex workers, a lot of them. - Yeah. - And he had one of the ruses that he used was to pretend to be a police officer. And I think he even had like a badge that they would find later. But he would kind of play like an undercover cop. - Right. - And would act like he was busting them for prostitution. And then he would take them back to the toy box and that's when the bad stuff would start, they would hear the tape, they would be tortured. You know, again, we talked about, I mean, this thing's filled with sex toys, surgical instruments, chains, pulleys. - Solls. - Solls. You mentioned spreader bars, which I'm still not even sure what that is. - Like spreader bars. - Yeah, probably that's what it is. You know, we talked about a gynecology table. And then, so to go with that, he mounted this big mirror on the top. - So they can watch. - Right, he wanted these victims to see everything that was being done to them. - Unless he decided he didn't want, 'cause sometimes he did this thing, he had this black box that he inserted their head in so that they could hear, but they couldn't see what was gonna happen next. So again, he just did that to mess with them. So just, I mean, just, you know, a sick individual. - Yeah. - There's no doubt about it. But, you know, like Lakinin, he recorded a lot of this torture. - Yeah, that's why, you know, you kind of wonder if the Lakinin, you know, find him fascinating or vice versa, you know? - Well, I think that's a good point, because you see maybe not so much copycat, but you see serial killers either learning from other, you know, people that came before them, or, you know, maybe he always had, you know, we know he had these fascinations or these fetishes from an early age. And it could be that that sparked something in it if they came before him. Like we said, he would record the torture. sometimes with just audio, sometimes with with a video camera. And like many serial killers, because again, we're assuming and by all accounts, people believe that he not only tortured these women, but he ultimately killed them. And I don't think that's much of a stretch to get to that conclusion because if he was torturing and letting them all go, they would have spoken up. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so where are all these women? I mean, we know a few come out of the work, right? But the majority don't. Yeah. So why is that? Most likely because they were killed and dumped somewhere because he says in a bit in his own tape, I will not hesitate to slit your throat. Yeah. And I think he carried through with that on a lot of cases. But like I was going to say, like a lot of serial killers, he took trophies. And that is a hallmark that we see a lot. It is. You know, serial killers like to take trophies, so they can either relive the experiences, you know, whatever that trophy is, that brings back the sexual memory and the sexual aspect of it later on. But he took clothing and jewelry and, you know, a lot of different things like that. Now, it did say, Gibby in there that there were a couple of victims that were let go. Yeah. And some of them were going to talk about, but I think there were, I don't think he killed everybody. Well, we know he didn't kill a couple because they come forward. Right. I think there were some others because he did drug all these women. And from what I read, his, he had a cocktail that he thought was designed to basically cause amnesia. And so, you know, two or three days, he's keeping this cocktail going. And then he let some of these people go. And apparently they don't come forward or they come forward and people don't believe him. Yeah. You're going to probably talk about one down the note here. One for sure. We know. Now, we're going to, you know, like we talked about Cindy Hindi is kind of a central figure in this case because she was Parker's girlfriend. And she also participated in a lot of these crimes. All right, Gibb. So we know what Parker's doing. Right. And he's been at this for some time. We don't really know all the victims because police don't know all the victims. No. So we can't, you know, go through them and do some of that that we would normally do. We just, we just know he, what he likes. Yes. He talks about in his tapes when he goes on the search, he starts out on the high level trying to find attractive, well built, uh, women first, he has a type. Yep. He has a type. And then he's willing to, as the night goes on, he's willing to drop his type down a little bit, but not too much. He'll come down a little bit. And then after that, if he can't get that, he won't just settle. So he talks about in his tape. This is what I want. But I'll be willing to go to this. And then that's it. So if he doesn't, if he doesn't find what he's looking for, he'll wait till wait. But now we get to another central figure in the case because this is the point where everything crumbles for David Parker Ray. Right. So he goes out and like we talked about, he uses this, this ruse of posing as an undercover police officer and he approaches a woman named Cynthia V Hill. He told her she was under arrest for prostitution. I think he did this quite a bit. Yeah. And he handcuffs her. He does. So that's again, I think he used that a lot. And that's how he was able to number one, once you handcuff somebody makes it a hell of a lot easier to get them in whatever vehicle you have and get them back to where you want to get them. And this is March 22nd of 1999 when Cynthia escapes from the toy box. So he had picked her up. He had held her for what two or three days, I don't know about three days, about three days. On the 22nd, she's able to escape. And the way she did it was, was fascinating to me. Yeah. Because she'd been tortured for probably three days. And what she did is she waited for Ray to go to work. And when Ray was at work, it was Cindy that was in charge of looking after or making sure Cindy, Cindy, Cindy, yeah, it was her job to make sure that the victims stayed put, I guess, for a lack of a better word. Cynthia, who's the victim here, is able to overpower Cindy, drags her on the head with a lamp, tries to knock her out. First, she was able, she did what happened was that Cindy, Cindy left the keys to the locks on the table. Because that's because she had to get out of that first. Right. Cindy, Cindy made a mistake of leaving those out and visual and Cynthia sees it. And she's able to undo the hand restraints. Yeah. Thanks for correcting me because you're absolutely right because he kept them collar shackled. They got a collar. They're shackled. Yeah. I mean, this was not a comfortable situation despite, I mean, naked naked. Right. Even on top of all the torture in between the torture, they were kept in, you know, all these shackles. It couldn't, it had to just been miserable. Every part of it, you know how to be. I mean, I can't even imagine. Okay. So you're right. She gets the keys because Cindy's left them out. She's able to undo her restraints or shackles or whatever we call them. Yeah. And then that's when she strikes Cindy on the head with a lamp, tries to knock her out. She also stabs her in the neck at one point with an ice pick. Not sure why there's a nice pick laying around, but that could have been part of the torture for for all we know. Yeah. So Cynthia stabs Cindy Hendy and in the neck with the ice pick. Yes. To try to just to like, you can just see the frustration. I'm like, yeah, it's my one chance to get out of here. I'm going to do it all right. Whatever I can. Yeah. I'm sure she was in complete panic. Get away at all cost mode. But how weird is that ice pick was hanging around? Well, that's what I'm saying. Was it part of of the sick mobile of all the weird shit that he had in that toy box or was something that they used to serve Tom Collins. I don't know. I'm going to go with the first. I'm going to yeah, me too. So Cynthia, because it's weird because they're both named. Right. So Cynthia and Cindy, Cynthia is the victim. She's able to get away. But like you said, she's naked. She's got this iron collar around her neck and chains probably hanging off of her. She's unlocked the locks, but she the chains are probably still on her. Right. And she's able to get away and she makes it to a nearby mobile home. Knocks on the door. The owner lets her in. That must have been a sight. Yeah. Can you imagine that? No. I mean, you'd be like, a lady shows up naked in a collar. Yeah. Screaming. I'm sure. Yeah. I'm sure she was. What would you think? So the lady lets her in and calls 911. I want to play that right now. And I'm calling for a young lady to bring the reaction. She's been right. She's got a chain on her and everything. Cynthia won right away. This lady's naked and everything else. She said they didn't hold enough for three days. So that lady said naked too. But that's how you say naked down there. Must be. So. But you know, again, like you said, what I mean, what a shock. Oh, yeah. That must have been for this lady three days. But the strange thing about this is that police officers were already en route to David Parker Ray's house. Really? Yeah. Because I think what it happened was Cynthia had tried to call 911, but wasn't able to do anything with it. Okay. But it must have connected. Enough to generate them having to go out and see what it was about. Yeah. So they were already on their way to his place. And when they get the call over the radio to go here, which I'm sure this mobile home wasn't that far from from Ray's place. Yeah. And you know, so they're They get Cynthia and she tells them everything and they're able to go and question both David Parker Ray and Cindy Hendy. Ultimately, they arrest them on some kidnapping charge. But while they're being questioned, they're trying to get out of it, right? Ray and Hendy and their claim is that they, yeah, they abducted Cynthia Veehill, but the reason that they did it is because they were trying to get help her get off of her heroin addiction. - So he was being a good guy? - Yeah, he's a good Samaritan, right? - Yeah, doing you all favor. - It's like a forced rehab. - Yeah. - But that didn't last too long because it didn't take the police officers very long to find the toy box. - Right. And once they did, they discovered all the crazy stuff that we've already talked about, the sex toys, the, and this is where they find the fake police badge. I guess he's keeping it in the toy box. - So they find that and the tapes in the videos? - Yeah. - They find all of that. And so at that point, they're able to charge both Parker and Hendy with 12 different charges ranging from kidnapping to assault and probably a few other things. - Right. - And in between. - Yeah. - Yeah. - So I've got a couple of clips here that I want to play in a row 'cause they all kind of go together. - Okay. - The first two are the actual Cynthia, the real Cynthia Veehill. So let me play that. - Scared me to death. What I went through. One morning I was walking to a restaurant and the sky came up to me and told me that he had asked for me. So I went over there and he acted like a cop and told me I was under arrest. And he put his handcuffs on me and he had me in his trailer and he drove me to Elk and Beauty. And he did a lot of sick stuff. At the time, I was scared that they were gonna catch me. I didn't know where I was gonna go. I didn't know where I was at. It was relief. He discussed me. He was a very sick man and just the way he talked. It wasn't like he, this was the first, it didn't feel like this was the first time. It looked like, just felt like he knew what he was doing and I was never gonna be able to see my family again. If I didn't get away, I wouldn't have my three wonderful boys to have today. I would be here right now asking for a route for these women. Because what I went through and these served to have these people to know what happened and these people need to be returned to their families, whether they're gone or not. They didn't have to go through what I went through, but they did. They didn't probably make it like I did. Just to help these families. 'Cause my family would have probably been going to the same thing and probably didn't get away. - So, give me obviously this oppressed conference. You can hear all the pictures. You're snapping of the pictures. Also, what you can hear is a lot of rustling of paper and that is Cynthia, basically what she has is a lot of pictures of missing women. - Oh, okay. - And the other thing is that you could tell is this press conference occurred much later because she's talking about the fact that she's got three kids now and she wouldn't have had those. - But even though it was three years late, you know, about three years later, but after three kids, substantial amount of time. - Yeah, I don't know what year it happened. - Yeah, but still so vivid. - Oh, you can tell that just for her, the courage it must have taken for her to even talk about it. - Yeah. - You can tell that it haunts her. - Absolutely. - Today, so she's still living it. - Yeah, so one thing I took from it was the fact that she said, she knew in her heart that David Parker Ray knew what he was doing. - This wasn't a first time thing. She even knew that and that he had done it many, many times before. Now, I want to play a second clip 'cause it kind of delves into that as well. - One time she said that she would kill me like others had been if he got off on me. And at one time he said that Daisy was okay, so I would. So just a small clip, but the reason why I wanted to play that is because, and when she said she's talking about Cindy, Cindy Hindi, and basically talking about how others had been killed before her, but that she would be all right if she did this, this, and this. - Yeah, as long as you played along. - Yeah. - You're gonna be okay. - So I think, like I said, very small clip, but I liked it because it's basically her saying or her knowing that other people had been killed before her. Not just kidnapped and tortured, but killed as well. And then the third one I'm gonna play is from the police. - Cynthia said that she was on a bed in a kind of expanded trailer house. She was naked. She was handcuffed and she had a collar around her neck, which was attached to a pole. She was given a bucket for a toilet. She was sexually assaulted. She repeatedly sexually assaulted. She was under the impression she was gonna be killed, so she was desperate to get out. - Once they go inside the house, they find where Cynthia had been held in the Sunkin Living Room area. They see the bed, they see the pole, there's some chains and manacles there. There's a bucket with her waist on the floor. There was obvious signs of a struggle and disarray in the room. Obviously what they saw did not look like the area of somebody who had been kept there voluntarily. Everything that they were seeing did nothing for them, except to add evidence and corroboration to what Cynthia, their victim, was telling them. There was medical equipment in and everywhere. Drills, modified drills, was sexual devices on them and cages. I mean, it was just this unbelievable looking den. This was a torture chamber. - So that's obviously after the police get in, they're into the toy box, and they're, you know, he's describing what they saw. Some of the same things that we said, it just, you know, sounds so much better coming from the police, I guess. - Yeah, still disturbing. - Yeah, very disturbing. So this is not the end of the investigation though. That part continues and evidence of more victims starts to come out. - Sure, is this makes the headlines? - Yes, that causes some people to come forward, whether it was they were afraid before, or whether it was they were drugged, and this coming out in the news kind of sparked, or that's not the right word, but. - Generated. - Generated memories. I don't know the answer to which one that is, but a woman named Angelica comes forward, and she's telling the cops that she had been abducted by Ray about a month before Cynthia. And this one was a little strange because apparently she knew David Parker Ray and she knew Cindy Hendy. - Okay. - New 'em both. - All right. - And was going over to their place to get some cake mix. - Okay. - So they, she knew them, they knew her, and they're sitting there talking in whatever place Ray has. I don't know if it's a house or whatever, but they're sitting there talking and Ray leaves for a minute, and he comes back, and he has a knife. And straight away he tells Angelica that she's gonna be kidnapped. And at the same time, he looks over and Hendy's holding a gun aimed at her. They grab her, they strip her naked, and they harness her to the table. - Yeah. - So basically the same thing. - Same thing. - I think their-- - That's their M.O. - That's their M.O. was pretty much the same as I understand it. They put the M.O. collar on her. And now on this one, and I think you mentioned this early on, but they had a generator. - They did. - In the toy box. And with Angelica, they used the generator to attach electrodes to her breasts. And they were doing some kind of sick game or whatever you wanna call it of sending electrical. charges right to different parts of her body and They abused her for the same about three days that seemed to be their yeah, they're part of what their mo was - right is about three days Now what happens with Angelica though is you know again like I said she knew these people Yeah, and somehow she's able to talk them into letting her go on day four And so they put her in the car They drive her however many miles away and they dump her on the side of the highway police officer comes by picks her up and This is where I start to get really pissed off because Angelica reports to the police and very very detailed way Everything that's happened to her she knows David Parker raised name She knows Cindy Hendy's name. Yeah, she knows where they live and She's telling them that these two people kidnapped me and Tortured and abused me for three days So the police take her statement and they follow report But apparently they never followed up on it. They didn't at all and that just Pisses me off because I think they didn't believe her story right But they didn't find it believable But they can't take the time to send one guy out you would think to raise house and at least say yeah Hey, you know, what's going on? Can I check this? Trailer yeah, just take it half an hour to drive out her check it out make sure and then you know or just ask them some quiet I don't know. Yeah, just I don't know. Yeah, just to see if he acts strange Yeah, obviously He could have said no you can't see the trailer. There's all kinds of different things But the fact that they did nothing that just really rubs me the wrong way right because Basically if they would have followed up on this it couldn't have saved anybody before Angelica, but we know for a fact it could have saved what Cynthia went through yeah, and I don't know if there was anybody between in that month between Angelica and Cynthia or not, but bottom line is Cynthia would possibly not have had to go through What she went through yeah, but I think you find that it's You're gonna find the theme a little bit, you know that it happens to a couple women that the police just don't believe their story Right we are gonna talk about I mean if someone told you this you would be like I mean maybe not today, but back then oh, yeah, I mean it'd be tough to swallow They'd understand what they're trying to say happen to them. It's just so bizarre how Believable could it be it would be but as a a Police agency. Oh you would you not have the Responsibility to at least check it out. I would think you would I would hope I just I see and we're gonna see it probably later on but to just dismiss these people's claims because of And I don't know anything about Angelica. I don't know what say maybe she had a background Right, I don't know what her past was yeah that that made them say here comes this crazy person or whatever Yeah, I definitely don't want to say that because I don't know, but you're right Maybe there was something there that caused them to dismiss it But the bottom line is that they they possibly could have stopped him a little earlier now one thing that they find in Ray's possessions is a video of Another victim named Kelly Garrett or Kelly van Cleve. I you know want to I saw it a couple different ways one of them's probably her Made in name and married name, but this video dated dated back to 1996 so they ultimately find Garrett or Kelly and And she's in Colorado alive and police were able to identify her through some tattoo I think that she had on her ankle Kelly would later testify that she'd gotten in a fight with her husband and she was playing Pool at a bar with friends and this was July 24th, 1996 And it was David Parker raised daughter Jesse who we haven't talked about we did say he had a couple of daughters, but one of his daughters name is Jesse was there and They were friends Jesse and Kelly were friends and So they're they're drinking beer and playing pool at this bar The bar was called the blue water saloon the daughter puts a roofie and Garrett's beer that she was drinking so then they walk outside and Rays out there he comes up from behind and hits her in the head and knocks her out All right, so Ray hits Kelly right Kelly Garrett from behind knocks her out you got it But we know Jesse was the one that Learned it all happened. Yeah, so Gibby Ray takes Kelly back to his trailer first toy box And again goes through this whole put in the collar on a leash or chains and basically his whole mo and Kelly wakes up and but she blacks out a bunch of times Over what I think's a couple of days. Yeah of torture from the roofies Yeah, and I think he he did this a lie. I don't know if it was always roofie But like like I said he had a what I read was he had a cocktail. Yeah, and this cocktail was designed to keep the victims Kind of semi-conscious like a cloudy. Yeah mind said He thought it would also like I said cause amnesia. Yeah, and he was hoping that that would be beneficial You know for him I bet in the long run so Kelly's drug and for whatever reason and I don't know if you have this but Ray decides to slash her throat and I don't know What the reason was if she made him mad or You know well and his tape he tells him That he won't hesitate at all just To slash your throat so clearly she did something that he made got upset with and he slashed her throat Yeah, you're right. He did say that so if she did something that was against the rules That's possibly what could have precipitated it so he slashes her throat and he thinks she's dead And he takes her and dumps her on the side of the road. Yeah But she's not dead somebody finds her they take her to the hospital And she's treated and survives The problem is She tells the story just like Angelica right and nobody believes her. No, not even her husband Right, it's not only the police didn't believe her her own husband didn't believe her Not only does she go through this two three days of pure torture and someone slices her neck and throws her out for dead Her own husband doesn't believe her it actually divorces her over it because he thinks she's been cheating on yeah And this is when she after he divorces her this is when she relocates to Colorado right so let's let's listen to Kelly We'd always ended up here No matter where we started. This is where we quit There used to be a little mini bar sitting here Pull tables right there and we were playing pool and I had ordered a beer And I left to take one of my drunk friends home And came back and some of my other friends left And at the end of the evening it was just me and Jesse Jesse Ray David's daughter. I just remember being on her couch Her dad's couch That's when they held the knife to my throat and put the dog collar on The duct tape and cuffs And I ended up tied to a table You know she survives and is able to tell her story yeah, but again like we talked about with some others I mean that that's got to be haunting sure for her I don't know how often she relives that You know she went through a serious serious ordeal She probably relives it every day I wouldn't doubted at all. I don't know how you'd get that out of your head Besides Kelly and that's horrible what happened to her The cra- one of the crazy things about this is so we know Parker's been doing this And we know Cindy Hindi his girlfriend has been helping him And now he's got his own daughter. Yeah somehow To help him in his little fantasy world? - Yeah, in his sick fetish. - Yeah. - Whatever you want to call it, I just can't believe that. - What is true? - It is true. We know it's true, and we'll find out even more about why we know it's true. - Right. - So we've talked, I've talked a couple times about this drug cocktail, and I think it was on one of the tapes, and I don't know if you remember this or not, Gaby, I didn't listen. I listened to all the tapes, but I did have this written down that on one of the tapes, he described the drugs as a combination of sodium pentathol and phenobarbital. - That's it. - Is one of those, I thought sodium pentathol was true serum. - It is. - Huh, okay. - So it must have a mixture. - So putting the two together. But like we said, he thought it would cause amnesia, and one of the fascinating parts about that is there was a woman, unnamed, they didn't give her a name, but she was uncertain of whether or not she was abused. - She thought was bad dreams, right? - Yeah, she thought she was having these really weird nightmares, and it wasn't until the FBI came knocking on her door and started telling her what they were there to talk about. - Oh, did they see her in one of the tapes? - No, no. I think they were, I don't know what caused them to question her. - But somehow they got her information. - But once they start talking about this, she realizes, hey, these are not nightmares. I actually went through this, and she's able to, after talking with the FBI, to actually give them a bunch of details. - Yeah. - So hopefully we didn't just give out some crazy recipe for a budding serial killer, but apparently, I mean, this is all over the internet. It's not like we're saying stuff that people can't look up, but apparently this did work at least in, - For him. - This instance, because she was not sure whether she had really gone through something, and actually I think she was leaning towards the fact that she hadn't, and was just having some bad dreams. But of course we know, it wasn't. - No, wasn't a bad dream. She was kidnapped and tortured like the others. - Yeah, she lived through it. - So Gibbs, I think we're probably close to getting into the trial, but we've got to talk a little bit more about Cindy Hendy, because I think she's a fascinating part of this whole case. - Yeah. - And I know we've just kind of touched on the fact that she participated in some of the crimes, and helped out David Parker Ray. - Yeah. - So Cindy was from Seattle, and what I have is that she moved to New Mexico because she was wanted for a forgery theft and drug possession. So she was trying to avoid arrest by, you know, getting out of the Seattle area. It came to light later that Cindy had told one of her friends that she had participated in these attacks that Ray committed in the torture and all of that. And what she said was that there were also four to six people that were killed. So she had the same friend she told that to. Not only killed, but dismembered and tossed into elephant butelake. - Okay. - Now I don't think it's any big shock that when it came time getting close to the trial, she wanted to cut a deal. - Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. - So she was willing to, you know, roll over against Ray and others for a reduced sentence. So she provided details of Ray's alleged murders, right? A alleged because they never actually convicted him, but you got a lot of people talking about it. And she said it was probably 14. - It was enough to have the FBI search his property. - Yes. - Right? - Yeah. - And the lake, I think they tried to do some stuff at the lake as well. - I mean, they have like 80 to 100 FBI agents out in that area of searchin. So she says 14, but I'm thinking that's probably only the ones that she knew about. You know, how much activity did David Parker Ray do before he even met her? - Yeah. - Well, I don't know the answer to that. - What do you do on his own? What do you do with other people's system, Kim? - Right. - By all accounts, he started at a pretty young age. - Yeah. - Because he was 59 years old when they caught him. And there were some accounts that he'd been doing this for maybe 30 to 40 years. You know, he could have started his young as 1920 years old. So she told police that Ray had killed a business partner named Billy Bowers, whose murder up to that point had been completely unsolved. Nobody knew had any information on it. So Cindy was the one that was able to link Ray with that. And what she had said was that Ray dumped the body in this lake, but it'd come back up to the surface. And Cindy said it was at this point that Ray learned that he had to open up the stomachs of his future victims so that when he dumped them in the lake, they wouldn't come back up. They'd stay submerged. She wouldn't blow it up and float. - Right. So that's pretty detailed information. - It is really detailed information. - To make up. And yeah, I don't think she was making this up. - No, I don't think so either. - I think she was trying to cut a deal. Don't get me wrong. But I think she had some pertinent information and was able to give that to police. But like you said, they sent hundreds of agents out to his property. I think to the lake even, they searched all, this area around his property, they never found one human remain. - Yeah. - And I think that to me is like a huge mystery in this case. - It is because you think they'd be able to find something, right? I mean, I'm surely sent divers into the lake. - Yeah, I don't know how dragged it or something. - I don't know how big elephant butelake is. I mean, it could be one of those very deep lakes. - Yeah, I don't know either, yeah, exactly. - But for him to kill whatever the number is, whether it's 14 or 40 or 60, to be able to do it in a way where nobody has ever been found. He knew what he was doing. I guess, I'll say it that way. - 'Cause I believe there's victims, that's for sure. - Oh, definitely. So I've got a little audio bite from a detective I wanna play. - He was a predator and he was a very good one, a very intelligent one. It's where convinced that there are remains, that's just a matter of locating them. David was very familiar with that lake and he worked as a mechanic for the state parks. He also had made comments in the past that we know about the best way to dispose of a human body in a body of water such as elephant butelake. Cover them with wire, fish wire, or I'm sorry, chicken wire or barbed wire, wait them with cinder blocks or other heavy weights and sink them to the bottom in the deepest part of the lake. - So there again, he's talking about the lake. I wish he just said how deep the lake was. I know somebody's gonna look it up and say it's, - Yeah, somebody will let you know. - It's X, but you know, can't research everything. I guess. But like we said, Hindi is such a central figure in this case and she would go on to tell the police everything she knew about Ray's daughter, Jesse as well. And that whole episode that we talked about. And also another accomplice that I don't think we've mentioned yet by the name of Roy Yancey and both Jesse and Roy were implicated in the murder of a woman named Marie Parker. And I think Marie was Roy's ex girlfriend or ex-wife. And it was a similar situation to the Kelly Garrett incident that we talked about. You know, it happened in a bar, Jesse and Roy somehow got Marie out of the bar. - Yes, so for the listeners, he goes by Roy, but his real name was Dennis. - Yeah, Dennis Roy Yancey. - Yeah, but Roy's what he went for. - Yeah. - So they get, you know, much like Kelly, they get Marie and handcuffs and they get her in the car and they get her back to the toy box. - Right. - You know, we keep saying this, but Marie was tortured for three days. I don't know why this three days pops up a lot. - Yeah. - I don't know if David Parker Ray, you know, got tired of these victims after three days. - Maybe that's where it's just, you know, He did everything he wanted to do and he's done. - Maybe. Yeah, I mean, I don't even want to think about it. It's too sick, but obviously there's something about three days because it can't be a coincidence that it keeps coming up over and over. So she's tortured for three days and then Ray and Jesse come to Royancy and they say they're done with her. So again, Jesse's pretty involved in this one. - Mm-hmm. - And they give Roy a rope and they tell him to strangle Marie and he ultimately admits that that's what he did. - Yeah. - So let me play a little clip on that. This is, it starts out with police questioning David Parker Ray and then it morphs into Royancy. - Do you ever remember if your woman named Marie Parker? - Not really, no. She's a woman that disappeared about two years ago. And I just thought I'd ask, you know, I said, have you asked, CPI information? Is it good to be able to do with that? - Yes. - And she's one that disappeared from one of the bars? - Yes, sir. - And everyone that underlined the incident, that's a, you were part of that by chance. - No, certainly not. - From what I understand is that he's had many years of been having torture and you killing women. - How did you come up with the idea to kill Marie? Was David Parker's idea? And then they ended up giving me a rope and telling me to just strangle her. And she wasn't dying fast enough. Okay, but she said she wasn't dying fast enough was she struggling or? - Yes, she's strong. I was told not to tell anybody anything or if I was gonna be killed and thrown into the kitchen. Who told you that? Happy, David. So David Parker Ray is basically telling the police, he doesn't know anything about it. - Right. - And then Royancy admits to the murder and says that he was told to do it by Ray. So all of this happens and Jesse Ray is arrested and charged with kidnapping on April 26, 1999. Royancy was arrested a little bit earlier and charged on suspicion of murder. April 10, 1999. All right, Gaby, I think we have to start talking about the trials now. And Ray has a couple of trials. And his first trial begins on March 28, 2000. Something happens right after jury selection of this first trial and it's that Ray suffers a heart attack. And so the trial has to be postponed. - Okay. - Now one thing that happens between this time and I believe the time that they start the new trial is one of the key witnesses dies and Jessica dies of a drug overdose. So that really only leaves a belief Cynthia, V Hill and Kelly Garrett as the main surviving witnesses for the prosecution. The new trial starts on May 23rd. They finally start, they've completed jury selection. And at this point, Ray is charged with 12 counts of kidnapping, sexual abuse and conspiracy. But the trial doesn't really last very long because in July, the judge declares a mistrial because at this point, the jury cannot agree on a verdict. And this is where, I guess for me, Gibby, it gets very strange and I don't understand what's going on because what it said is that not all of the jurors were persuaded that the testifying victims, so to me, that means Cynthia and Kelly had been held against their will. I don't know what the hell they thought. Did they think that they willingly went to the toy box and put a collar on? Yeah, put the collar on themselves and said, hey, please torture me for three days. I don't get that. I don't either. But of course, we weren't in the courtroom. We didn't hear all the evidence, but that stood out to me as strange. But either way, there's a retrial and this happens in November. But again, there's a lot of crazy stuff happening with these trials because it's really just a couple of days into this new trial that the judge dies. Yeah. So they have to postpone the new trial. And so that's November, they don't start up again until April of the next year, but this time, I think they get it right. Yeah. And they convict Ray on all 12 charges. Again, I go back to that first one. I don't understand it. I don't know what they thought. I mean, we heard both victims, right? I had sound bites of both victims. Right. I don't know what their pasts are. I don't know what the defense brought up and to try to discredit them, which we know happens a lot. Right. It's kind of sad, but the defense always has to try to discredit the victims. But I can't imagine that they were able to do so in a way that people thought these girls got what they deserved. Yeah. I mean, that's, I don't get it. So they asked for it as the way a couple of those jurors made it sound. Yeah. I won't, I won't belabor the point, but it does strike me as very strange. But anyway, you know, another jury convict scene, but he's still got to go through a second trial. And that starts up in June. Now, in this one, he makes a plea bargain before the second trial. Right. And the reason that he does is for his daughter, Jesse, because she's implicated, she's charged. So he makes a plea bargain, basically saying that he'll plead guilty, which I don't know why he wouldn't. He's already been convicted. But he'll plead guilty in this trial in exchange for a lighter sentence for his daughter, Jesse. And Ray was convicted, or what, he pled guilty. So ultimately, he gets like 224 years in prison. Yeah. I don't know how much of that was from the first one and how much of that was from the second one. But, you know, he was convicted of a bunch of different offenses, all revolving around abduction and sexual torture of, you know, these young women. So again, we talk about craziness, right, in these trials. The trials are over. And it's May 28th of 2002. David Parker Ray is getting ready to be transferred to prison. So I assume up until this point, he's been in some kind of either county jail or something like that. Yeah, that makes sense. But he's getting ready to go to big boy prison. Yeah. And he suffers another heart attack and he dies. So he never even makes it to prison. Never gets to taste the medicine. No. Now that he's dead, it almost makes the case dead. Nobody's found he can't divulge any other information, right? Right. He'll never be able to. No other victims were identified. And they were never able to put any of the other suspicious deaths that they thought maybe were related to him. They could never officially link those to David Parker Ray. Right. I mean, it didn't, it doesn't matter. I don't want to say it doesn't matter because it does. Because if there are other victims out there, you know, their families maybe could get some closure. Yeah. By by linking and and being able to officially say that they something happened to them at the hands of David Parker Ray. So I shouldn't say that it doesn't matter at all because it does. Now, something happens in November of 2002 that I thought was really interesting. And this was that they actually, the police actually opened the toy box to the public. That's weird. They allowed the public to tour David Parker Ray's toy box. Really? And the thought was is that it was believed that it may lead to more surviving victims coming forward. Hmm. But that's strange. That is strange. That me or you or Joe public could go, I don't know if there was a limit to who could it says the public. Yeah. I don't know about that move there. But but I don't know what if anything came out of it. I don't just far to my knowledge, nothing came out of that. Right. So we jump forward to October of 2011. And the FBI, I don't know on some type of tip, they performed a search of a place called McClure. Craig Canyon, which was near this elephant butelake, which from everything I read, people think that's where he disposed of bodies. And they're looking for potential victims. They don't find anything. In February of 2012, the Australian Federal Police contacted the FBI about a potential victim known only by the first name Connie. And apparently Connie had been mentioned in a letter from a man named Mark that was postmarked from Sydney, but it was found in David Parker Ray's residence after his arrest. I don't know whatever became of it, but it was interesting. So I don't know if he was corresponding with other people that had similar interests. Right. You know, we've heard about that before with, you know, the internet and some of these different crazy fetish forums, but I don't know if he was doing some correspondence through mail or what. As far as I know, they were never able to get any more information on this woman that was named in the letter. So let's wrap it up by talking about some of the other people involved and what happened to them. So he had Roy Yancey. He was convicted in the strangulation murder of Marie Parker. And he received two 15-year sentences to run consecutively. He didn't serve all that. He didn't. Which I thought was a little strange. He was proled in 2010 and he only served 11 years. That seems pretty light to me. I mean, I think there are people in prison on drug-related charges that have done more time than that. And here's a confess killer that strangled a woman. But he didn't stay out very long. No. He's only out for a few months. Yeah. It was what? Three months. Yeah. He got charged with some type of violation of his probation. Yeah. And hit it. And so he's back in custody and now he has to serve the full sentence. I think it's 2021. Yeah, 2021. Yeah. So he'll be out in-- which is actually only four years away to think about it. Pretty soon. So when he listens to this, he can shoot you an email and give you a hint. Any important details we missed? Yeah, I really hope some of these people don't have podcasts in jail. So that's what happened to Roy. OK. So then we have Cindy Hendy. She got a reduced sentence for her role. But it was 36 years. So 36 years with a potential parole, I'm guessing? Yeah. Obviously, what that tells me, Gibbs, is that they had a shitload of evidence on her. Because she rolled on all these people-- And still had 36. It's still got 36 years. Yeah. So she participated in a lot of the bad stuff that happened. That's what that tells me. You want to talk about Jesse? Yeah. Yeah, his daughter, Jesse, she got-- because he pleaded, Bargain, right? Right. So he did the pleaded, Bargain. So because that, she got nine years leaving five to be served on a probation basis. She definitely got off on the light and compared to the rest of them. Yeah, definitely. I mean, obviously, she's out. Yeah, oh, yeah. Yeah. She has to be out now. Yeah. She's listened to this and should we send in you an email? Correcting. Yes. I can live with an email as long as that's all it is. Yeah. All right, Gibby. So to wrap up this story of David Parker Ray, aka the toy box killer, I mean, obviously, one of the sicker individuals that we've covered. Stirring. I mean, I don't think, you know, if you-- you can trial, you want, but you never be able to get into this guy's head. No. And figure out what made him tick. I'm telling you, if you want to freak yourself out, go out there and read the transcript. Try to sleep after that. Yeah, not only can you read it yourself, but there are some people on YouTube that have read the whole transcript in either their normal voice or some freaky voice. Yes, some creepy. And that'll creep you out even more. But the-- and obviously, what we're talking about is the transcript of the tape that David Parker Ray made and basically played for every victim. And it is what you heard times a hundred. Yeah. I mean, I cut out-- Just listen to it. Yeah, play on your couch. Close your eyes. Listen to it. And tell me if it doesn't freak you out. Yeah, it freaked me out. And that's why I kind of cut it down a little bit. I didn't want to play the full-bore nasty, nasty version. We figure we'll leave that up to people if they-- Disturbing, anyway. If they want to get that. So that's it for episode 16 in the bag. Yeah. Make sure you jump over and listen to her own solved. Yeah, definitely. You know, unsolves cranking up. We've got episode 6 would be coming out at the exact same time as this. So make sure you-- if you haven't given it a listen, give it a try, subscribe, rate us on iTunes. Like we said, it's basically the same format. We just pick unsolved cases and talk about the case. We talk about all the different suspects. You know, sometimes we go down a bunch of different rabbit holes. Yeah, can't help that. Because there's a lot more rabbit holes in these unsolved cases. Sure. Yeah, give it a try. All right. So for Mike Ferguson and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking. [MUSIC PLAYING]