David Felix: How SolaREIT is Redefining Renewable Energy One Acre at a Time

(upbeat music) Welcome to Green Giants, Titans of Renewable Energy, the podcast where insights and innovation meet. Every episode we dive into conversations with industry leaders, experts and change makers, bringing you the stories and ideas in the renewable energy sector that shape our world. And now let's jump into today's episode with your host Wes Ashworth. Welcome back to Green Giants, Titans of Renewable Energy. Today we're excited to sit down with David Felix, Senior Vice President of Business Development at Solarreet, a company redefining land financing for solar and energy storage projects. David's career spans engineering, project development and renewable energy financing. In this episode, we'll explore David's unique career journey, Solarreet's innovative approach to land as a transformative asset and how they're enabling developers to navigate industry challenges like shifting policies and market dynamics. David, welcome to the show. Thanks Wes, happy to be here. Yeah, so I'd love to start out with a good origin story. So you share previously that your journey into the clean energy space was partly driven by personal health issue with air pollution. Could you share that story and explain how it shapes your perspective and passion just for clean energy as a whole? Yeah, I'm happy to. So actually, when I was in high school, I read a book called All Corvettes Are Red and it was basically a firsthand storytelling of the chief engineer for the Corvette at the time, which was obviously an important car for me as a car person at a young age. And that really peaked my interest. I decided to go into mechanical engineering in college and actually had an internship in Michigan for a big auto company. And while I was there, I actually ended up in the hospital because I couldn't breathe. Gosh. And I grew up in a place with relative to the clean air. So I had never experienced that before. It was really scary. And basically, it was told that it's because of air pollution. That's why I ended up like that. And it really opened my eyes to a major problem, globally, of air pollution, maybe something we don't talk about as much these days. It's all climate change, which of course is something I'm very focused on. And I think is the biggest issue are society faces. But also, don't forget about the daily impacts of air pollution. The stats, I think, are pretty crazy. It affects about 25 million Americans. About 6 million kids. It's the leading cause of miss school days in the country and it's estimated to cost the US $80 billion annually and cause about 3,500 deaths a year. So it's still a major issue. And that's just in the US, right? And like, as you are here, is relative to clean. Clean air has been around since the '70s. Developing parts of the world are much worse off. About 2,000 young kids die every day due to air pollution. So that's more than one a minute. So it's a major problem. Obviously, it got very focused on where air pollution comes from and low and behold, as we in the industry all know, it's from burning fossil fuels, right? So I really decided to dedicate my career to reducing fossil fuel usage as quickly as possible. Yeah, wow. I think we've learned about climate change since then. I've only gotten more intense and the challenges we face as a society in trying to phase down our primary source of fuel for our global economy. But thankfully now, there's a lot of great alternatives, which I look forward to talking to you about here. But that's where it all started for me. Wow, what a powerful story. And I love the fact of just taking your skill set, your end in engineering, pursuing that path. And then this happens. And a lot of people just wouldn't do anything with that. But instead, let me make a difference. Let me go forward into this industry and try to be a part of the solution. Yes, that's absolutely incredible. And just thinking more about your career and your career path. So it spans various areas. Use some time across project development, finance, technologies, like solar, battery storage, EV charging. What have been some pivotal moments or decisions in your journey that ultimately brought you to solar eat? Yeah, so like you said, I mean, I think it's just kind of maybe my personality. My wife would probably tell you this also. Then kind of a fix it kind of person. When I see a problem, I want to fix it. So for better or worse, sometimes. So ultimately, that what that has meant along my career journey has changed. And I've tried to go and see where there's the biggest opportunity for implementing real change, real projects, stealing the ground. And when I started my career in the industry about 20 years ago, I was shortly after the Energy Policy Act of 2005 passed, increased the tax credit from 10 to 30% combined that with the SGIP incentive back in the day in California. And solar went from being something that the green people were doing and maybe Jimmy Carter put on the White House. But it wasn't a mass adoption. And I think what was really missing at that time was third party finance. I mean, think about the common example of cell phones. Think about what cell phones would be like if we were all spending whatever it is now $600, $800,000 on a phone and not doing it financing. So it's a similar idea. That was a really important change that entered the market about when I was entering beginning my career. So that's where I started was financing, owning, and operating solar projects on people's rooftops, commercial, industrial, ground-mounted. It was kind of the beginning of that PPA market for distributed customers. And I think that really helped to unlock. That was kind of the missing piece, I would say, at that point is combination of policy. Obviously having technology there, panels were still very expensive at the time, but we'd combine all those incentives. And it actually started to pencil and make sense for large financial institutions to begin investing in projects like this, that it met their return requirements. So instead of investing in another commercial building, maybe they were willing to invest in large commercial solar project. And so that was really an inflection point and something that was really-- I didn't really have a finance background. But I saw that as something that was a missing piece to really unlock the potential of distributed solar at the time. Yeah, and digging more into that. So solar reads approach and market differentiation, sort of the business model, and focusing on financing real estate, specifically for solar and storage projects, rather than the traditional long-term debt and tax equity. How does this model benefit project developers? And what misunderstanding is about land financing? Do you wish more people understood? Yeah, it's a great question. Actually, if it's OK, maybe I'll kind of walk through a little bit more of getting to solar, because it's been a journey. Yeah, of course. So I started with behind the meter solar, eventually, the industry grew into utility scale, solar PV. But through that process, there was still kind of the big missing piece of what we were going to do with vehicle emissions. And at the time, this is a long time ago now, there was no clear solution. So is hybrids, fuel cells, the hydrogen highway. I don't really remember-- talk about that as much anymore. And then Tesla entered the scene. And I think as soon as they introduced the Model S-- so that was, for me, more of an obvious kind of engineering solution at the time that you combine-- which I think is maybe underappreciated at this point-- you combine the 18650 lithium ion cell, which is something that no one had attempted to build an EV using a commercially available, commoditized lithium ion cell. And I think the genius at the time, I think a lot of credit goes to JB Strawble, one of the founders in CTO of Tesla, for seeing the potential of that architecture, battery cell that had been commercialized by Sony more than 20 years before for camcorders. And then you have laptops and power tools that you could use this high-energy density, relatively low-cost cell, and then start asking questions. How many of these could you fit in a large vehicle? How much range could that vehicle have if you had so for 7,000 of those cells in it? And what happens if you take this DC fast-charging technology that Nissan had helped to pioneer in Japan and say, well, maybe we can do better than 50 KW. Maybe we can go up to 150. And I think those two engineering innovations are really, again, looking for what unlocks the market. I think that was it. Of course, you need to add fuel to that fire. You need the capital and the vision. I think Elon gets a lot of credit for that. But I think the technology and seeing the potential of thinking about what would a no-compromise electric vehicle look like. And obviously, people like to look at the screen and other things about the cars. But I think the reason why we're in this place we are now where EVs have really kind of taken over for new vehicles, and in most vehicle segments, is because of those innovations that Tesla pioneered 12 years ago when the Model S hit the work. And I don't know if that gets enough kind of attention. There's a lot of EVs now available. But I think those were kind of an inflection point in the industry. So that's really why, from a career standpoint, why went to be a part of that journey of building out the supercharger network for Tesla. Getting back to solar read, I think what I see is the potential for companies in the solar and battery storage industry right now are how do we move faster? What are the barriers that are still present in these markets? It's pretty clear now, I think that solar battery storage and EV charging is kind of the trifecta of the clean energy economy that kind of answers most of the major questions. Of course, it doesn't answer the tail scenarios. And yes, there's obviously still a role for geothermal, for wind, for other technologies. But I think the lion's share of where the solutions lie. And again, going back to what is the quickest way to reduce fossil fuel usage for air pollution, for climate change, for all these reasons, solar battery storage, EV charging, and electric vehicles. So getting back to solar read, the model that we have is really to unlock capital and to be able to help accelerate the deployment and development of solar and battery storage projects in the United States. And I think this is where getting back to my mindset of what are the barriers to more rapid cleaning up of our economy. I think that's the scale that we're at now. The technology is there. The policy has been there in the past. Obviously, we can talk about where the future of the policy may lie about the new administration. But I think at now, the point that we're at in the industry now is what do we need to do to really put the pedal to the metal, if you will, on accelerating the clean energy transition? Yeah. So can you compare and contrast a little bit the model that solar reuses in terms of financing these projects, how that compares to more traditional models, and just some of the differentiators there in what you're doing that's unique? Yeah, since we focus strictly on the real estate, just on the land under solar and battery storage projects, that really allows us to be laser focused on what is just critically important for ensuring that projects are going to get built and are operational. So it allows our process, our documentation, our underwriting due diligence to be extremely efficient and quick. And basically, what we're doing is confirming diligent items that developers would need to do anyway for their tax equity and debt, financing, and also if they're just going to be selling the project. The things that they're doing anyway for those processes, are we're going to be reviewing that same information and generally aren't asking developers to go kind of above and beyond what they'd be doing normally. So it really allows developers to monetize the land in a way that they wouldn't have otherwise been able to. And the fact that the land itself is not eligible for receiving the tax credit, it's not, you can't count in your ITC basis. It basically, it is a kind of a perfect match where there wasn't really a good source of capital for financing the land specifically. And that's really, our company was born out of realizing that need, seeing that need firsthand as project developers ourselves as the founders were. Yeah. So thinking about that with developers moving from leasing to outright land purchases, can you elaborate on the advantages on this approach and why you advocate for it and get into that a bit more? Yeah, that's a great question. Some of the developers that we've been working with for years, we've seen some of their strategies completely flip from originally leading with a preference for leasing, to now leading with offering to acquire land from landowners. And the reason is that they have more control. There's less risk. There's more capital in it for them. So I think in the past, purchase options have been maybe frowned upon because you're setting yourself up for this big capital infusion that you're going to need to just take down the land. So in working with us, developers know that they have a source of capital that will be there when they're ready to execute on purchase options. So if they have a landowner who's willing to sell their land, we've seen that that is becoming a preferred approach for various reasons. That's not always the case. A lot of landers don't want to sell. Can't sell. We have land financing options where the landowner can retain ownership of the land that I think are still very beneficial for the developer and for the landowner. But when there is an opportunity for acquiring the land, like I said, we're seeing developers that we've been working with for a long time who've completely done a 180 on their land acquisition strategy. Yeah. Any specific challenges you've seen when developers are making that shift from leasing to more focusing on that negoning and financing piece of that? It's a good question. I think the biggest challenge is still comes back to-- you're still beholden to what the landowners want to do, right? Yeah. Anybody's been developing for projects that's running to scenarios where you've got a bunch of siblings fighting over what's going to happen with the land. It's been in the family for many generations. We're not selling it. So I think it's still really at the whim of what the landowner ultimately wants to and is able to do. But what we do here at Solar Read is give project developers suite of options that they can put in front of landowners to give them maybe more scenarios that they can explore with landowners. So maybe they weren't initially excited about the idea of selling the land. But through time in seeing other options, it may become a more valuable option for the landowners. We also can buy out at least revenue stream. So if the landowner wants to retain ownership, basically we can write them a big check up front. We would then receive the ongoing lease payments over time. But that landowner can then have that big capital infusion early on, not wait around for their lease payments for a long period of time, and they still on the land. So it's kind of a win-win for landowners. So that's an example of something that we kind of have a product that will work regardless of what the landowner preferences are. There's value to be unlocked in the land and working with us regardless of what that landowner's preference may be. Yeah, no, super interesting. In switching over a little bit to battery storage projects, so financing for standalone battery storage is still somewhat unique in the market. Can you just guess how solar read is enabling this? And what potential you see for battery storage in the renewable energy landscape? Yeah, well, we see a lot of potential in battery storage. I mean, like I said, I think it's an important part of the trifecta of solar and EV. Obviously, the intermittency, there's a lot of things that solar as great as it is can't do when putting it ahead with firm fossil generation. So I think that's become obvious. In the last stat, I saw it was 80% of the new capacity and a last year's interconnection queue was solar and storage. And I think a large component of that is storage as far as the shape of that curve growing over time. But it still is relatively new still. I think there are some challenges, I think, that storage faces with some traditional financiers. And again, since we are able to just focus on the land, what we really care about is they're a constructible asset that is ready to build on top of the land. Since it's really just the land, we're really able to narrow in on just the most critical aspects of the due diligence process and to be able to say, this is a source of capital that storage developers can unlock when there may be more headwinds for some of the traditional sources of financing that they've used on solar projects in the past. So I think this has become a really key financing solution for some of the largest battery storage developers in the country is being able to unlock the capital that's sitting on the land under these projects. Yeah, and shifting gears a little bit just to just some industry insights and merging trends and thinking about market volatility and strategy is something that comes up all the time. So I think we've talked about the community solar other energy projects face constant market shifts. How do you stay adaptable to changes like policy fluctuations and what advice would you offer to developers in this rapidly evolving environment? Yeah, I mean, anyone who's been in this industry for a while will know that there's always ups and downs, right? There's always state markets that are really going well and then eventually they may get shut down. And then another market opens up. I kind of think of it as like the musical chairs of solar markets, right? So California community solar maybe is not going great, but New Mexico just opened a community solar program. So I think the important aspects I think for us, and this is why we work with really developers of all shapes and sizes and projects of all sizes as well. Really, the only thing we don't do is behind the meter, smaller residential type of projects, but we're very active in community solar all the way up to extremely large utility scale solar and storage projects. So I think it's important for project developers to really think about all the options that they have when it comes to markets that they're participating in and when it comes to how they are choosing to finance their companies and their projects. So working with partners that have experience, the individuals on the team that have worked in these markets and that have the track record and understanding of how these markets have developed over time. I think it's really important. It's just looking at it actually since the Energy Policy Act passed in 2005, the solar investment tax credit has needed to be extended six times. - Yeah. - I remember each of those six times where you've got to get the project commissioned before the end of the year ruining everyone in the industry's holiday breaks, right? So I think it wasn't until the IRA a couple of years ago when we got a 10-year extension where we maybe got to take a sigh of relief, a breath that we had that much runway on it. But yeah, I think now we're maybe back in the mode of seeing some uncertainty in the future as far as what's gonna happen with the IRA with the new administration. So I think again, it goes back to the basics of having some diversification in the markets that you're working in as a developer and also making sure that you are pulling every lever that you have available to you when it comes to financing your projects and that if you can monetize the land under either operating projects or projects you have in development, it's a good option. That really doesn't, it really doesn't take a lot of added time or complexity when compared to other sources of financing. - Yeah, great insight there. And you segue kind of perfectly into the next topic of thinking about just post-election incoming administration. It has the potential to ship policy priorities and renewable energy. I think overall the sentiment is still positive as a whole. And overall as I'm talking to the industry and thinking about that, but how do you see these changes just fostering or hindering innovation in the solar and energy storage sectors and specifically how might it influence solar eats future projects and partnerships? - No, I would agree with you. I mean, I think that's kind of the common feeling in the industry right now. I think the term of there might be some small changes, but it's not gonna get completely wiped out. I think probably resonates with most people right now. I think ultimately, at least how I feel is nobody really knows for sure. Still, only a few weeks after the election, a little bit until the new administration comes in. So I think there is a general optimism around, they're not being drastic, significant negative impacts to the industry. Definitely a big question mark around a definitely big question mark around terrorist and how that may impact project economics. I think it ultimately goes back to, I think what happened looking at prior precedent, I think some projects that may have been on the margin during the last administration, where there's some tariff impacts. Maybe some of those projects had to be canceled or delayed. Obviously, COVID could impact on project schedules and other shipping things across the border, lots of impacts. So I think there are some headwinds maybe, some uncertainty around it, but I think the developers who are well positioned have strong projects, have accounted for some tariff risk and kind of mitigated where they can. I think we'll do fine. I think there are going to be some negative impacts on the margins and projects that maybe were questionable anyway. Yes, I think that's probably a fair assessment, but I think the trajectory for the industry is still very positive. Maybe this is a little bit bend in the curve, but I think we're all still going in a really strong direction. I was just looking at it. I think we're going to install as an industry, 50 gigawatts of solar this year's what I was looking at. So I think we're every year continues to be a significant growth. So I think we're going to continue to grow as an industry and adapt to the changes that are coming. Yeah, no, I agree completely. In shifting over a little bit just to focus on decentralization, what role do you see decentralization playing in solar energy and storage, how solar repositioned within this broader trend? Yeah, I think that's a critical piece. One of the things we haven't talked about yet is just the significant impact and delays for transmission and interconnection for distributed projects, solar and battery storage. I think decentralization is a really important part of the solution there. Obviously, with the massive uptick and growth in data centers driven by AI, and I think it's the traditional timelines for transmission projects taking decades is not compatible with the time schedule that these data centers and other new load just brought our electrification. It's going to be critical to look at the full potential of solar and battery storage and you be charging to help to meet these future needs. When I say you be charging, I think about a vehicle to grid applications where you have these. Many gigawatts hours of batteries rolling around during the day that are going to be stationary at certain periods of time. Those could be important grid assets in the future. So I think it all needs to work together cohesively to help solve this growing energy demand that we're seeing and decentralization, I think, is an important part of that. I think solar read is really in a good position to support developers who are, again, developing any type of project. Again, commuting solar projects down to fairly small sizes, even small battery storage projects. These all serve an important role. We'll be continuing to serve an important role in the energy ecosystem. In the future, we can just be viewed as a partner for developers who are working in these markets to be able to monetize their land and to allow them to focus on financing the projects, bringing the projects online. We're kind of like, say, on a good day land is just boring. It's just something that developers need to deal with. It's about getting to get my site control, going to lock it up as long as I can, going to go finish developing the project and get it built. On a bad day land can be paying in the neck. So we're there to help really provide more optionality and solutions for developers so they can focus on, especially smaller shops, if they can really benefit in leveraging the land that can really impact and support their overall financing needs and ability to develop and continue focusing on developing new projects. We ask a lot of developers in this country, right? They wear a lot of the risk in this energy transition. Like, as you said, there's a lot of uncertainty in political landscape, markets coming and going, long time scale, interconnection cues. There's a lot of risk. And we offer a stabilizing force for developers to be able to leverage something that they may not be aware they are able to leverage the land under the feet and under their projects, right? That there's some solvency there and ability to be able to use that capital for other development needs as they're continuing to grow their companies and their projects. Yeah, sure. And thinking about just other pains in the necks for developers that you hit on there, and you've already touched on a couple. But what are some of the biggest challenges developers face today, especially concerning land acquisition and financing, and then, specifically, how does solar read help alleviate those pain points? Yeah, I mean, the first one that comes to mind for me, firsthand experience developing projects was always interconnection cues. I think that problem is only gotten worse. Unfortunately, cue reform, interconnection cue is getting totally jammed across the country. So I think that is definitely one of the biggest pain points. Obviously permitting can be a pain in certain areas, certain types of projects, selecting best sites. And I think it can also be challenging. Again, a lot of the good sites for these types of projects have been taken in a lot of the active markets. So I think what we're able to do, again, is, since we're able to work with all types of developers and all types of projects, being able to monetize those projects in a different way, being able to not focus on securing additional sources of capital, delutive capital, in some cases, this is going to be a really good option for developers to be able to continue diversifying into new markets, new types of projects. So it helps them to stretch their budgets further without having a huge lift. That was what would be necessary for some types of financing. Yeah, thinking about, too, just their pain points. I mean, there's any trends in how developer challenges have evolved over the past few years. Is it the same things five years ago as it is today that's keeping them up at night? Has it evolved dramatically? Like, what have you seen there? Yeah, I think some things have gotten better. Some things have gotten worse. It's kind of a mixed bag, I would say. I mean, interconnection, QC, and they're only getting worse. I'm sorry to say that. For sure. It seemed like it's gotten much better. It's all about getting to the best Q position in a certain market. But obviously, cost of modules, I think the availability of hardware, EPC contractors, level of experience, I think a lot of the elements of developing a project have improved over time. But again, there's always headwinds with interconnection, tariff risk, insurance costs after major hail events. There's definitely-- it is a mixed bag. But as I said, I think we ask a lot of the developer community in this country. And I think, again, there's going to be more headwinds in some areas, so I think it's really important that developers are able to access the resources of capital that they may not have thought of before to be able to continue fueling their growth. Yeah. When's the right time for a developer to bring in a solar read or start that conversation? Yeah, we actually-- we like to come in really early to start conversations to understand how developers are operating. Everyone's a little bit different as far as the types of projects where they're developing. So we like to be a partner from the beginning and to be able to help developers think through their land acquisition strategy and to be able to help them implement that. As far as when we're actually able to close, we do look for projects to be basically construction ready. So we don't want to end up in a scenario where we're owning land that does not have an energy project on it. That's not really part of our business model. So we want to make sure that they have the basic building blocks of having a constructible project. So that's having an interconnect agreement, having their discretionary permits, site control, obviously some basic information about the property to make sure they're able to build the project that they're intending to on that site. So we want to make sure there's basically no binary deal killer type risks still there before we close. As far as talking to developers, pricing out, looking at terms and conditions, we do that well in advance. But as far as actually closing, we want to make sure that it's not just going to be vacant land when we're done. Yeah. And thinking about the project development side a little bit, can you explain solar reads checklist for determining when to invest in a project and clean factors like discretionary permits, site control, and interconnect that you just mentioned as well? Yeah, it's really those things. I would say those are the biggest, I would say, interconnection discretionary permits, site control, other things like a clean phase one, ESA, title and survey, things like that. Again, things that the project developers are going to need to be getting anyway for their tax equity and debt, or if they're going to be selling the project, these are all standard things that developers are going to have available anyway. So we're really not asking developers to go above and beyond what they would be needing to do anyway for their overall project financing plans. Yeah. Any common red flags that would make you hesitant to invest in a project like things that come up pretty frequently or things that steer you guys away a little bit? I wouldn't say red flags, but things that we have a certain program for, brown field sites, sites that you have environmental contamination. We have financed property that fits into that category, but we have a special process that we need to go through. I wouldn't necessarily call those red flags, but it would be special circumstances. I'd say that the only reason we decline to move forward on projects maybe is if they're too small or are certain minimum-sized requirements that we have. We've secured about a billion dollars of capital to go and finance these investments, and in order to deploy a significant amount of capital into land investments, there has to be a certain volume and scale to the individual transactions, so that that can be a reason why we need to decline certain opportunities. Obviously, like I said, things behind the meter, residential, other things like that that may come up periodically, that's not something that we invest in. Otherwise, I'd say it's all fair game for solar and battery storage projects. Yeah. You mentioned the range from smaller to larger. Like, what's a typical range? The smallest you would probably come in, and maybe the largest, too. I'd say we try to keep our minimum check size to around a million dollars. There are exceptions to that. But again, it's kind of a constant battle of trying to keep the volume up. And I'd say our sweet spot is maybe in the $5 to $15 million range, we have done quite a few significantly higher than that. But if I were to draw a curve of our transactions over time, I'd say the peak of that the curve is probably in that $5 to $15 million range, but quite a bit on the tails on either side, also. Yeah, good to know. And transitioning a little bit to just some key industry changes and just looking forward. So in your opinion, what are the most critical industry changes or advancements needed to accelerate the clean energy adoption? I wish I had a crystal ball on that one. Again, getting back to interconnection cues, transmission, taking decades, in some cases. I think those are significant bottlenecks that seem to not have a clear path to the resolution right now, though in thinking about scenarios of where deregulation may be beneficial. And the future, I think maybe all parties would agree that finding ways to streamline interconnection and transmission build out in this country are very high in that list of how we accelerate moving to clean energy as quickly as possible. Beyond that, I think we're seeing state markets, again, opening, in some cases, beauty solar, I think, is still a very exciting growth area. It's actually not everywhere in the country, but I think that's still a great option. And we work with a lot of the community solar developers who are active in those different markets. And I think that's an important area of growth. Battery storage talked about, I think, we're still in the infancy of the battery storage market and seeing what the true potential is for that technology and how it can benefit the growth in this transition to more intermittent renewable sources. Those are the things I think about as far as issue changes. I mean, we've talked about tariffs a little bit. I think those are more like managing downside risk. But as far as growth opportunities, I think it's a question of how do we remove the barriers that we're all experiencing, transmission and interconnection being kind of top of that list? Yeah, I know without it now. And just thinking about a couple other things as we get closer to the end of the episode. But any major misconceptions about finance and clean energy projects that you'd like to clarify for our listeners, so you can debunk them right now. Any questions that come up commonly or if you hear some things where you're like, "That's not actually that accurate. It's more this. Give you free rein, go ahead and touch on some of those for us." Yeah, I know that's a great question. I think there's a few of them that come to mind for me. One of them that we run into is that financing challenges are only for larger projects, right? That if you're doing smaller projects, financing should be much easier. Not necessarily the case, right? Ultimately, you're still going to need to go through a lot of the same processes. The paperwork is generally similar. The legal fees, a lot of it is going to be not that much less painful, I would say, for smaller projects. Right. And again, this gets to the benefit of working with partners who are able to kind of grow with developers as they move into different markets. We've worked with a bunch. We've started with smaller projects and then moved into larger scale projects because they've realized that the pain points are going to be the similar and the upside is potentially much higher for larger projects. Obviously, there's delays and other issues with big projects, interconnection that we talked about. So there's their balance, I think, and I'd say that some of the best developers that we work with have a variety of projects that they have become experts in developing. And so I think that's probably an important one. But also, like I talked about at the beginning, the conception that leasing is better than purchasing I think has become pretty prevalent in the industry. It's kind of a traditional way of doing things. It's something everybody understands. You're not really taking on a risk of needing to come up with capital to purchase the site. And that all makes sense. I think in the context of not having a really strong partner who is able to be that financing partner for you for purchasing land and realizing that there is the added benefits, added return potential for developers to be able to pursue purchase options where the landowner is willing and interested in doing that. So I think that's probably the biggest one. That's kind of microcosm to the part of the market that we're in that we see every day. But I think it's an important one, especially when developers are out there thinking about how to manage risk, how to stabilize development, how to bring every dollar out of their projects is really making sure they're considering all the options they have available to themselves. And again, land is something that can be boring or not really a focal point. But I think making sure that folks are able to leverage all the options they have available to themselves I think is really important, especially when there's some uncertainty and risk that they're going to need to be managing. Yeah, I guess a surprising fact about clean energy financing that maybe even industry experts and insiders might not know any of those come to mind. I think a big one is that we see for the land that we're looking at under battery storage projects say in particular, because there can be a big difference in the numbers associated with land under battery storage versus solar. Some of the projects that we're financing the land under are very small footprint down to quarter acre in some cases. But you can fit quite a few megawatt hours of batteries on a quarter acre in an urban environment. And that's becoming increasingly important, I think. And what we really look at when we're looking at the numbers behind these opportunities, we focus on what is the potential for that project to what is its revenue assumptions over time? How much would we feel comfortable with that project paying for at least payments over time? So that ratio, I would say, of the land size to the revenue assumptions is drastically different for battery storage projects. Obviously, solar is a huge footprint. Battery storage is much more condensed on a megawatt hours per acre basis. So I would say that is maybe an interesting trend that we're seeing in the potential financing options for battery storage projects in particular. Yeah, that's a good one. Very insightful. So finally, you've made a big impact in your career. And you've made that very intentionally. And you continue to make that impact in the space. For those looking to make a meaningful impact, internoble energy, what advice would you offer them based on your experience? Yeah, I love this question. I think a lot about mentoring. I think it's an important part of growing in this industry is thinking about mentors that I've had that I'm very grateful for in my career and thinking about how I can try to be supportive of up and coming folks in the industry. A few things I think about. This is a very broad and long-term transition. We're talking about fundamentally changing how humans produce and use energy across our society, across everything that we do. And it's going to take as fast as I want it to go. I think it is a multi-generational project. Hopefully, we can make it go as quickly as possible. Every day that we move faster is a little bit less. Air pollution in the air, it's a little bit less. Carbon emissions is a little bit less impact. We talk a lot about specific targets for GHG reduction. And I guess I think about it in the terms of, we're already seeing impacts. And the carbon that's already up in the atmosphere is going to be causing issues for a long time. So every day that we save, every ton that we don't emit is a step in the right direction. And it's not like there's going to be a magic bullet that solves all this. It's a lot of hard work over decades. It's really implement these solutions that we all are seeing the potential of now. I'd say it's a really exciting time. Like I said, when I started, solar was $5 a watt for a solar panel. And now it's what, $0.30 a lot less than that. So the costs have come down, the commodification of solar panels, of lithium ion cells. We have all the technology. There's still a lot of potential for wind and geothermal. It's all here. Now it's a question of how fast we can go. So I would say the biggest thing is be excited about that. There's a lot of opportunity. Yeah. And then I think the question is, what part of it do you want to be in? So I started my career in engineering. I've moved into project development and finance. There's a whole universe of regulatory, of legal lobbying, turning the wrenches, maintaining the systems. There's all sorts of-- there's something for everybody. Even I think about like whoever drew up the climate stripes, like the magic of, you know, visualizing what is happening. Sure, yeah. Art and everything. There's something for everybody in this transition. And I think it's just a really exciting thing to be a part of. And it's something that you can devote your entire career to. Because like I said, as fast as I think we all want it to move, unfortunately, I think it's going to be around for everyone who's alive today is all of their life and probably future generations as well. So there's no shortage of opportunity, I would say. I would say shout to people in the industry, networking. I think it's important, you know, getting to know different opportunities that are out there. And keeping an open mind with, you know, kind of as much as you can, keeping a pulse on the industry and what's happening and trying to see these changes as they're evolving over time. Because there's always something new. But yeah, I think it's a very exciting time for young folks in the industry. I agree. I agree, wholeheartedly. As we wrap up, any final pieces, words of wisdom, insights, things you didn't get to touch on that you would like to add, the floor is yours. I think I just said it all in the last one. Yeah, you did. No, I guess, you know, the biggest thing is I think there can be kind of discouraging moments, right? There can be setbacks, there can be kind of, wow, we wish we that would have gone a different way. We really wish that, you know, this utility commission would, you know, make better decisions. You know, there's always setbacks. We call it, I think, the solar coaster in the industry. Maybe we need a new name because it doesn't include battery storage. There's always ups and downs. But the general trajectory is very encouraging. And I don't think there's any stopping it, right? The general baseline, kind of fundamentals, cost of the technology, even if other breakthroughs happen. I think there is just significant, you know, momentum that is unstoppable at this point. So I always go back to that when I may be discouraged about whatever the latest that back might be, that the overall trend is really positive and to just keep trucking ahead and making progress because every little bit counts. Yeah, I love that sort of great way to wrap it up. And thank you so much for David for coming on the show. Thank you as always for our listeners out there for tuning into this episode of Green Giants. We hope you enjoyed the conversation with David Felix and gain valuable insights into the future of clean energy and innovation at SolarEat. If you love this episode, just I'm sure you did. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast, share it with your friends, your colleagues, or anyone passionate about renewable energy. And with that, we will see you next time. This episode of Green Giants, high ins of renewable energy, was brought to you by League Group Search. If you enjoyed today's discussion and are looking to recruit top talent for your company or find your next career opportunity in the renewable energy sector, visit leaguegroupsarch.com. Let's continue driving the future of clean energy together. Until next time, keep pushing toward a greener future.