(upbeat music) - Welcome back to "Dating Intentionally." I'm Talia. I'm sharing no nonsense advice for navigating dating and relationships with confidence and ease, whether you've been dating for a while or you're just starting out. I believe dating can be fun. And I am so excited about today's guest, Alora Dannon. One of my listeners sent me her profile and I knew immediately I had to have her on the show. Alora went viral on TikTok after sharing that at 32, she had never been on a date, never been kissed and never been asked out. She's become an accidental late bloomer spokesperson and spoiler alert. She is now engaged to someone she met on Bumble. So if you are somewhat of a late bloomer in any sense of the word, this episode is for you. You're gonna hear Alora talk about how and when to bring up your dating experience with someone new. What she wants people who aren't late bloomers to know about dating someone who started later in life and the hidden benefits of starting your dating journey when your brain is fully formed. She also shares her experience navigating physical intimacy for the first time, how to support late bloomer friends without making them feel like a project you're trying to fix and she's going to share how she worked through grief and shame that came with feeling like she was behind. We also answer a listener question about whether texting incompatibility is a deal breaker. As always, I'd love to hear from you if you have questions or thoughts on this episode. You can DM me on Instagram @theding.intentionally. Drop a comment on Spotify or shoot me an email at
[email protected]. Also, if you prefer to watch these conversations, you can find all dating intentionally episodes on YouTube. So see you there. All right, let's get to it. - Welcome, Alora, to the dating intentionally podcast. I'm so excited to have you here. - Thank you for having me, I'm excited to be here. - Yeah, one of my listeners sent me your profile and it was like one of those moments where I knew immediately on like I needed to have her on the podcast right now. (laughing) - I'm glad it was a good recommendation 'cause as soon as I found you, I was like, oh yes, oh yes, we love all this. - Oh, that's great, we love that. Well, okay, so we're here to talk about kind of the late bloomer vibe in dating and my observation and a question for you is, so many people think that they're alone in this. That was one thing that my listeners told me when I said you were coming on, they're like, oh my god, I thought I was the only one. I thought it was just me and we have so many, like I started late in life questions on the podcast, but can you speak about your journey online and how you found this whole community of people who relate to your story? - Absolutely, so I like to call myself like an accidental late bloomer spokesperson because none of this wasn't intractable (laughing) during the pandemic when everyone kind of, I feel like merged to like TikTok, I gravitated towards TikTok and I saw one person on there at that time I was 30, who talked about the fact that she was 23 and she had never been on a date. And I was like, and she was like, I'm a late bloomer, I was like, that's it, that's me, I literally, I was 30 years old and I'd never heard anyone ever speak to that experience outside of like, you know, in pop media you get a lot of the like cat lady spinster, the virgin jokes, I feel like the guys get the brunt of the virgin jokes. But if you haven't dated, like what's wrong with you? Like that kind of, that was the spectrum of what I saw when I was growing up. - Yeah. - Not even like amongst my family and friends, like anyone who ever met me was or like loved me, cherished me, was like, oh my gosh, like you're awesome. Like, you know, it'll happen when you used to expect it, that kind of thing, like nobody besides me was worried about this. - Yeah, right. The older I got, the more embarrassing it became. Like, it started off like when I was a teen in my early 20s, I was like, eh, I don't really know anyone, I want to date anyway, not a big deal, I've got other stuff going on. And then as you get older, and I'm the oldest of 10 kids, so I have seven sisters. - Yeah. - Oh my jaw just dropped. - I don't know how to stop them. - I actually know all of my sisters had had a first kiss, but most of them were married before I'd ever held hands with a partner on a date or had a kiss, like, so that's how you'd be like, whoa, everyone has figured this out. I have no idea what's going on or what I did wrong 'cause I think I'm awesome, but I don't know why this isn't happening for me. So two years go by on TikTok, I never think about it again, but then one day I was like, you know, this is something that I can't even say out loud. I can't even say that I've never been on a date out loud. It's so embarrassing to me. So I decided I was gonna film a video and post it on TikTok and just say, like, you know, I'm 32, I've never been asked out, never been on a date, never been kissed, and I chose TikTok 'cause no one was following me on there. So I thought it was just gonna-- - Oh, yes. - Post-neaky video, that kind of thing. And it's a big cosmic joke that those videos and the ones I posted in a very chaotic state afterwards were viral, like that blew up. - Yeah. - So like, no followers to all of a sudden, I realized not only was I not the only person, it was a very common issue, but the common thread is everyone's embarrassed about it. Everyone's ashamed so they just don't know that they're other people out there living totally normal lives, but this is just not happening for them organically. - Yeah. Isn't it funny how like TikTok chooses the topic you're gonna-- No, this is who you are now. Like this is the thing you're gonna talk about now. I'm glad that this happened for you this way, you know, because your voice is so needed and your content's amazing, like you have videos on everything from like just grieving, the grief you have to go through, being in your 30s or later and never going out of date, being asked out whatever, and you have like, how to kiss. - You have literally everything. - And I love that. - Yep, like I literally just tell people, I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I just, these are things I learned recently. - Yes, let me share them with you. - Yes, and you also recently got engaged. - That's true, that is very true. - Congratulations again. - Oh, it's for a surprise to me, it's all there. - Okay, hold up. I didn't need to say like five seconds ago that you're awesome, and it's like of course it was gonna happen. - It's true, I think it's the, you're not wrong, you're not wrong. I know two things can exist at once. This relief that you are an awesome, lovable worthy human being. But also that like little voice in your head that's like, "Well, no one's really seen that up until now." And like that balance has always been tricky. And even like as I started to date, I've lived the majority of my life by myself. So like, I've spent a long time telling me that I had a little voice to fuck off, but like, - Yeah, yeah, for sure. - It's still like, wow, you never thought, you never thought this was gonna happen and now it's happening. - It was wonderful. - But for sure. (laughing) - Okay, so we have a lot to get into. We have so many questions from listeners and the biggest number one question that I'm, tell me if you get this one too, is how and when did you bring up that you never were in a relationship or anything in your dating journey? - I could ask this question all the time, and I will speak to it endlessly because people, myself included, always thought of it as this like big hurdle someone needed to get past in order to love you. Like it's this big giant red flag. And so like when I was in my 20s, it's not that I wasn't attempting dating of some kind. Like I would download a dating app for like two weeks, get real overwhelmed or creeped out and then, and then delete it, try and get in like six months and I did that for like 10 years. (laughing) - It's so relatable. - It was like a cycle, I didn't mean it. - It's a cycle. - But like, you know, that two week mark, I was like, how about people are scary, but anyway, I used to lead with the fact that like, oh, by the way, I've never been on date, never been, like I would lead with it in my conversations. So I was like, I'm just gonna get this out of the way. Like, I just want someone to like, know this. - Okay. - You get all kinds of reactions and maybe 1% of them are chill when you lead with this. - So this was your like first strategy, like this is what you thought you should be doing because like so many people think this is a red flag, were you in this thinking as well? - 100% because I feel like the stigma is you have not been, especially like, I feel like it's much more common to believe as a woman that you need to be pursued. Like, I feel like guys already know that they're expected to initiate, but women are like, someone's gonna find me. I mean, yeah, it's like a little bit of adjustments. You're like, no, no, you can go forth and pursue as well. But so I would like, within a couple questions, like a few, maybe like a couple rounds, I would tell people straight out. And I feel like the reactions could be shock and awe and they want to know like your backstory or what trauma caused this. And it's a lot better. - Yeah, what's wrong with you? - For people that fetishize it or like, well, show you a whole new world baby, that kind of thing. But very few people were just like, it's chill. So that, I decided based on those experiences in my 20s, that by the time I took a big long break for like five or six years, late 20s. - Well, there was a pandemic in there. Let's be real. - I'll say it. So there was a big break and I was like, I'm not sure. So the time I passed, how am I turning 32? I was like, you know what? No one is actually owed this information. Any information really that I'm uncomfortable giving until I feel like they deserve it from me. So I never lied. I would just say I don't have a ton of dating experience. - Okay, but when did that come up? - Probably like, it's not like the, it's not in the like, hi, how are you? I feel like it's in like the second, like if, I feel like how it goes. And I've only dated people off of dating apps. So I don't even know how people meet other people in the wild, the all are amazing. But those, those meet cute moments did not find me. But on a dating app, I feel like when you actually start talking to people, there's like a few rounds of conversation. And I see initial rounds, it's just like, hey, how are you like kind of, if you were meeting someone in person, right, like, what brings you here? Like, just general. And I feel like it was in the second round or maybe like, there's a couple messages in. Like maybe. - Okay. - Like it was like, what are you looking for? What are you hoping to get? - Yeah, I was like, like that kind of, have you dated before? When was your last relationship with those? - They would ask you that on the apps? - They do. - I mean, I'm sure I got asked that on the apps too, but like that as a dating coach of sorts, I would never advise someone asked that on the apps. But okay. - No, I mean, I feel like that's the thing is, people are so hesitant to get off the apps and bring it to real life. Do you know what I mean? - Right, right, right. They're like finding every reason not to. - Yeah, like there's all this upfront work and I get it because there's also like a safety issue, right? Particularly for women or queer folk. Like there's also that you want to make sure as much as you can, but you're not having to be in dangerous waters. So I do understand the urge, but I also felt like, I very much had like a personal role of like, I want to meet somebody within like, like if we've talked for a week or two, that's two weeks has already feels like too long. Like, I want to know ASAP, like that. Like I want to know if there's anything here, but people could be so hesitant. I feel like about making that transition to the point where like I've technically still, never been asked out. Any day that I've ever been on, I asked them. - Yeah, I wish people would kind of like go of this idea that to be asked out is a big deal. It's about getting to the date. It's a collaborative thing. It doesn't matter who asks you, which is showing up to the date is really what matters. - It's so true. And I feel like, I mean, again, not an expert, but I feel like from just talking to the lay bloomer community, general, the gentlemen are a little bit worried about being seen as too pushy, right? Like they're like ready to make that. And for women, we're like, well, if you don't ask me, then you're not putting in effort. So like we're both coming at it with like, so I just kept it very much like after a week or two, I'd be like, you know, this has been great. I have a personal role, but I only talk to people for like two week stops. And neither we meet in person, or we go our separate ways. You want to go out and look? - Right, that's how you do it. That's how you do it. So was there ever a situation where you were viewing this information on a date and not on the apps? - So yes, because on the apps, I feel like that was like surface level conversation. And by the time we got in person, like my first ever first date, I had actually a fantastic time with my ex now, but we experienced a lot of really fun firsts together. And I felt so good about that date. Like it felt so fun. And like we had a very good energy. That by the end of the date, I was like, by the way, this was my first ever first date. And he was like, you know, I had a feeling, but it wasn't because you did anything wrong. It's just you were really excited and enthusiastic to be here. And that's not usually the first date to go. - Oh my God. I love that. I love that. - Okay, it didn't come out to me as a date, but it was very, and immediately, this was like literally maybe two weeks into my journey on TikTok coming out as a way bloomer. And I was like, well, he was like, you have nothing to be embarrassed about. I was like, well, I'm not embarrassed. Like as of two weeks. - Yeah, also that's a green flag, right? That's a green flag. So it's almost saying you nothing to be embarrassed about. - For sure. - He was like, it's not a big deal. Like I've met other people. I'm like, have you? I've never. You know, maybe you have, they just don't talk about it, right? So, how did they go with your fiance? - So we talked for a few weeks, which was against my rule on the dating apps, 'cause it took us a second to find to make our schedules mesh, 'cause we both work a lot. But he was just like, oh, not a big deal. And I feel like the difference that, at that point too, for me was like, at the time I met my fiance, I was like two years into quote unquote, again, coming out as a lay bloomer. So it was no longer embarrassing to me, and it was no longer something I felt like I needed to share. - Yeah. - Wasn't because I had been in a relationship and now was not. It's just like, I had a graced this part of my brain that was like, this is something you need to expect about me. It was sort of like the way we talked about it when I was talking about with my fiance, was in the same flavor as like, this is my favorite kind of food. Or, I've had a pixie cut before. Like, it was cute. Like, this is that flavor, that level, it wasn't like I was unburdened. It was honestly way more of a reveal to tell him, by the way, I'm sort of a dating content creator. - Yes, I can relate to that for sure. I can, oh my gosh. Yes, I really love that you said that because, and like, people listening, this is so important. When you have something to share that maybe you're insecure or feel sensitive about, it doesn't have to be this information bomb dropped in the middle of your date. It's going to do real the date. It can be like sharing your favorite flavor, a food of cuisine or whatever, like, or just some like your favorite type of movie. Like, it doesn't have to be this big dramatic thing. And that's so key. - Yep, like, you can kind of lead. And again, people might have questions like the same way. Like, when I, like, to me, it is not news that I'm the oldest of 10, right? But that's a shocking, it is a somewhat shocking, right? - It's so cool. - Yeah, not all mine. Talking about something that's unusual about me, it gives it so much fodder for conversation. Like, if you have something interesting, right? So like, I didn't even mind when people asked me about like, well, it can feel like a big deal. But if someone is worth having that conversation with if they're not making it feel like weird, do you know what I mean? 'Cause again, just 'cause someone asked a question doesn't mean you have to answer it. Like, you can sidestep. But like, to be able to just answer, like, and have a conversation about it without it feeling like, you're in confession or something. - Right, or like, you're being judged and, like, - Yep, I'm trial. - We're gonna get graded after the date. Like, no, no, no, no. - Okay, so what is your advice for the person listening who's like, I really appreciate a Laura talking about this, but I still have no idea what to say. Like, what do I say about my dating experience if I have none? What's the line? - I feel like, again, I stand by the, I just don't have much dating experience. If someone says, why? You can be like, I prioritize other things. And probably neither of those things are lies. Like, I feel like so many people because dating is intimidating and scary, especially, it's intimidating and scary for anybody with any experience level. But especially if you've never done it before. So I feel like just being forthright with the fact that, like, I just put my time and energy into other things. That's a totally realistic thing. Like, career, education, hobby, whatever your passion is or whatever you've been required by, like, the invested by. - That's such a, like, that's such a normal, like, I know so many people who have maybe dated when they were in their teens, when it was a little bit easier 'cause you're more in a more social setting, right? Like, school or whatever. And then they just didn't for years 'cause they were working with things. Like, it's just, like, so many people have different reasons and it's not a big deal. It doesn't have to be a big deal if you don't. - It doesn't have to be a big deal, for sure. So what made you decide to suddenly hot back on? Was it bumble that you were on? - So the first time around was hinged, the second time was bumble. - Okay, so at 30, what made you decide to hot back on the apps? - So I remember very clearly 'cause it was that weird week. I was 32 at this point and it was between Christmas and New Year's that, like, meaningless time is meaningless week. And I was, like, snuggled up with my dog in bed and it was snowing outside and I was like, man, my life is amazing. But if I don't change anything about it, I will wake up in 30 years and it will be exactly the same. And I wasn't okay for the first time with that thought. Like, that I just really want to be completely, like, having this life and I felt like, I could be sharing it with someone that was the change. Like, I was like, I don't wanna be alone in that. So I was like, you know, I'm gonna try again. But this time, I'm gonna give myself a finite amount of time to be brave for because you burn out on being brave constantly. - Oh, okay, so what was the timeframe? - So initially, I gave myself, so this was January, almost. I was said by Easter, which is, you know, April, March, whatever. I wanted to go on eight days by Easter. That was my initial challenge. I now think that's a little still a long time. I would shorten it to a month or two to be brave. But my goal was to just go pursue every conversation to open my mind up a little bit to what I thought was attractive or not. Like, just be willing to pursue conversations and with the goal. Like, I had this goal of like meeting people in person. Like that was-- - Right, that was it, just get to one date. That's the goal. It's not find a boyfriend, it's get to one date. - Just have this experience, like rip the band-aid off and whatever else follows, follows. But like, it was easier for me to like conceptualize 'cause anxious girly, right? Anyone who tells me they have social anxiety around dating, I get it. I've learned to do things terrifying. (laughs) Like, if I knew I could be brave for a little while and then just rest, like delete all the apps, go back to your hobbit hole and like just rest. That was motivational to me. - I love it, it's bite size, it's doable. Again, you're not making the stakes, you hire, you're not looking at the whole mountain, you're looking at the first step of just get to the date. - Yep, yeah, amazing. What were you looking for on the apps this time around? - This time, I was-- So, I say that I'm unfortunately straight. (laughs) Just because on the apps, men can look scary. Like, not everyone has like a problem. - Hey, can. - You know what I mean? So it's intimidating to go into this. And you're just like kind of shopping, right? Like you're just shopping and initially, I would discredit people for the stupidest shit. Like, I literally grew up on a farm, but if someone was wearing flannel, I was like, two country. It was stupid, stupid stuff I was discounting people for. So I was like, all right, if you just keep a broader mind and you're looking at actual people's profiles, they have a few things on there that you can make a conversation about. Like, do you have some straight out incompatibilities that you're like, no, this is, but like taking away the like snap decision, I feel like it was one, like linger. - That's key, yeah, linger. - Linger, like number one. Number two, I would never use more than two apps at a time. And I do say two apps because one algorithm can hate you and or they just might want you to upgrade for like, - Yeah. (laughs) - Did you pay for them? - I did the first time I use, like in, when I was actually successful on the apps, yeah. I did not the first time, the second time I did, but I wouldn't say that paying for them improves the quality of your matches. I, or even get to in front of more people. To me, it just makes the apps easier to use. - I agree, that fully. I don't think that paying makes your quote, algorithm better in any way. I think it just allows you to maximize, like send more outbound likes and, yeah, and just like, use the app better with filters that you might need. Other things, like, yeah. - For sure. - It's like if you only want to spend like 30 minutes a day, like doing this actively, right? Like sometimes it's helpful to just have tools, the best tools that you can. So like that is the great, you know, for like the paid, but not all of them, like, initially, like, when I paid for a hinge, I did appreciate those tools, but then I felt like there was just pressure to upgrade to like, they have like three tiers now. And they were like, oh, you're getting tier one? Dude, tier two. I'll just, like, put you down. - No, I never went past tier one. (laughs) - Never mind. And then, bumble with that more, like, yeah, here. Okay, you upgraded, here's some features that will help your searching more. And like that, I feel like, is what I'm looking for. - Yeah. Never more of a time, and you can pay, but you don't have to. (laughs) - Yeah, for sure. So you met your fiancee and Bumble, right? - Yeah. - Amazing, amazing. Okay, so someone wrote to me and they said, I feel like I missed out and I'm not good enough, you know, having no experience in their thirties. What do you say to that? - So I feel like there is an expectation that by the time you're in your thirties, right, you're supposed to be a whole grown adult and you're supposed to just know everything about being an adult and romance is supposed to be, like, an easy part. But in the same way that you have no freaking idea how to buy a house until you're actually doing it or like, raise a kid until you're actually doing it. Like, romance isn't the same category. So there is this big, like, again, because you're supposed to be pursued. So if you're not, if you don't receive that attention, there is that struggle of worthiness. But it's honestly just, everyone has to learn this at some point. Like, nobody is like, born, right, usanova or something. Like, everyone has to learn how to have a kiss, how to have sex, how to be a good partner. Like, those are things that are acquired. And it's honestly a social construct that it has to be done by a certain age. Like, that's totally made up. - Yeah, no, it's completely made up. So it's like, once you realize that, like, why am I holding myself to this standard? I wouldn't hold other people to this standard. - It's literally not a question of worth. It's just a question. Sometimes a block of, like, meeting someone at the same time that you're looking, sometimes it's a question of effort. Like, nobody was coming to find me on those five years. I took off from the dating apps because we're knocking on my door, like, find me on my couch. Like, there's so many other reasons that you might not have met someone. But none of them, to me, necessarily have to do with worth. Like, it's not that you are unworthy or not. So you're not, you're not grotesque. You're not unlovable. Like, there are external factors that make dating difficult and hard. And so it's annoying that it's easy for some people and not for everyone. - Yeah, I never wanted to tell you earlier. And that is like, I'm just love hearing your experiences. I had the opposite experience. I had my first kiss at an eighth grade. And I had my first boyfriend at tenth grade. And we dated for three years. And then I pretty much had, I was in relation to, like, back to back for a long time. And I'm like, thinking like, man, like, all right, like, you know, Louis, like, you get to date when you're, when your frontal lobe was fully formed. Like, that's a completely different experience. You know, like, you actually have a fully formed brain and way more life experience to put it to it than, you know, me running around to like high school. - But the thing is also like, to your point, no one was chasing me down. I was just very aggressive from a young age. Like, I had no problem flirting and like, this whole like, oh, they have to come to me. Like, I never had that mindset. I'm not saying it's wrong if you have that mindset or like, something's wrong with you if you do. But it's like, I wonder how my life would have gone if I didn't, you know? I guess I just want people to know it's not that the people around you who are in relationships have that, it's like they're a magnet. They might be going for it too. Like, even women. - That's true. - Yeah. - So true. So I want to take a quick break, but then I want to flip this around a little bit. - Dating and getting more nutrients in your diet have one thing in common. If the strategy requires you to become a completely different person, it's not gonna last. You need an approach that's sustainable and actually fits into your lifestyle. That's where AG1 comes in for me. When I'm traveling or in the middle of a launch week or just having one of those days where my nutrition falls apart, AG1 helps me stay on track. All it takes is one scoop, eight ounces of water, and you're done. Sustainable health is about consistency, not perfection. AG1 simplifies your nutrition with a multivitamin, pre- and probiotic, superfoods, and antioxidants in one scoop. And their new next gen formula has more vitamins and minerals than ever, clinically proven to fill most common nutrient gaps. I use this every day and you should check it out too. AG1 has four great flavors and I'm loving their original pineapple and vanilla flavor personally. AG1 has over 50,000 verified five star of use and comes with a 90 day money back guarantee. Go to drinkag1.com/dating to get their best offer. For a limited time, only get a free AG1 double bag and a free AG1 welcome kit with your first subscription order. Only while supplies last, that's drinkag1.com/dating. Drinkag1.com/dating. When I pictured living my best life in my 30s, I didn't think carrying a water bottle everywhere I go would be part of it, but here we are. Saying hydrated affects everything, my energy, my skin, and how I sleep. Lately, I've needed more of a boost and what's helped me the most is the hydration protocol from peak. Peak takes the most powerful botanicals, minerals, and vitamins from nature and elevates them with cutting edge extraction technology. And their data-night combo is a powerful two-part system that hydrates, energizes, and guarantees sleep restoration. The second I get up before I walk my dog or make breakfast, I use BT fountain. That keeps me hydrated and focused throughout the day. It also smooths your skin and gives you steady energy without the jitters. And while watching TV before bed, I switch to our E fountain. This is a magnesium complex that calms your nervous system and helps you sleep deeply, not just lie there for eight hours when we get exhausted. As someone who has trouble staying asleep, I swear by this. Together, they work as a 24-hour system. The morning formula hydrates and energizes, the night formula restores and repairs. I am loving this combo from peak. They taste great, they're easy to mix into water, and I've noticed less puffiness, better sleep, and I actually wake up feeling clear instead of groggy. Commits you intentional health, unlock 20% off and establish your powerful foundation for sustained well-being at peaklife.com/dating. That's p-i-q-u-e-life.com/dating. Have a confession. If my nails aren't well-maintained, I will pick at them and bite them. It's a really bad habit. And the only thing that works to stop it is consistently taking care of them. But as a solo entrepreneur who wears way too many hats at work, fine time to sit in a salon for an hour is just not happening. That's why I've been using all the June's many system for my nail routine at home every week. I love using it when relaxing and watching TV at the end of a long day with my husband. Most days, I'm rocking a clear polish, but when I want to switch it up with a fun color, I reach for all of the June's many system. It comes with everything you need for a salon quality manicure in one box. We're talking salon grade tools designed for doing your own nails and six polishes you get to pick out yourself. And the polish lasts for seven days or more, which I love. With all of the June's many system, you don't have to wonder if you're doing it right or if you don't have the right tools. It's all there, it's simple. And it breaks down to about $2 a manicure. $2, that's a steal. So if you want gorgeous nails so that worrying about squeezing in a salon appointment, try all of the June. Visit allofenjune.com/dating20 for 20% off your first system. That's ol-i-v-e-a-n-d-j-u-n-e.com/da-t-i-n-g-2-o for 20% off your first system. - Okay, Alora, I have this question because we have a lot of people listening who are not lay bloomers who have been dating for a while, are divorced, are widowed. There are some of the different stages of life. But what do you want people who aren't lay bloomers to know about dating someone who started dating later in life or haven't had a relationship? - There's nothing like wrong. I feel like people look for the answer. What's wrong with you? Why didn't you traumatize? Were you in a cult, where you abused? What is the reason? And sometimes there is a reason like that that prevents people from dating later in life, but oftentimes it's just like the human experience is vast and varied and it's not like a single timeline that everyone describes too. So just because someone hasn't dated it's not because of a fault of theirs. Like they might have just, again, prioritized different things. And so that's one. There's nothing wrong with anyone for a lack of experience. But two, if someone is a late bloomer or, again, chronically single coming out later in life, dating folks or any of those, any of those stipulations, I promise you, if someone has been desirous of a relationship that fits who they are as a person, they have been observing in media, in their botanic relationships and their familiar relationships, they are observing everybody else's relationships. They know what they do or do not want in a partner or what they themselves could offer to a partner. And they're so, we're so hungry to like learn. Like it's like an enthusiasm. So like, yes, there is going to be a learning curve for somebody with a lack of romantic experience. But we're all missing them. They will make up for it by learning quickly. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Like it's okay if things are awkward. Like literally if you're both the most experienced people in the world, first times, first kisses, first dates, can still be awkward. Like it doesn't matter. You're still learning a new person. But yeah, just because you haven't experienced something yet, doesn't mean you're going to suck at it. It just means you need to practice and practice can be. Yeah. Right, it's like you think about new things you've tried, new activities. Maybe you were bad at it first. Maybe you were fine at it first, you know? I always encourage on the show like a people are dating someone who they don't have experience. Which I have like a bone to pick with that phrase. Kind of for the reasons you were pointing out. It's like go for it. Like just let it play out and see what happens because just because someone's been in a relationship does not mean they're going to make a good partner. It does not mean they're good at relationships just because they've been in one. It's like why do we equate skill to like worthiness? Because it really, it really doesn't matter in that way. It's so true. And I also feel like people are afraid of like not being good at something like like looking a fool or something. Like whenever you try something new and like I do get it. But I also feel like some of the most real and authentic life experiences come from like leaning into the cringe and like doing it any way. So like spoken like a true tech talker. I know what I'm saying. Yeah. Like yeah, and if I thought about all the times I could have embarrassed myself and was just so cheerly enthusiastic for whatever it was I was experiencing. Like, I don't know, like the balance out. I agree. I think yeah, going in with that playful, enthusiastic mindset. I'm just like, maybe I'll suck at this. Maybe this would be the most awkward experience of my life. But you're going to get through it and you can laugh at it later. Absolutely. Yeah. So what are other hidden benefits of starting later in life? Well, I feel like as you get a little bit older, you might start to realize what is an important. And I lean into the dating with intention part of this conversation because I feel like when I was younger, I was looking for a lot of things. I wouldn't say that I was super, super official. But I definitely was like, well, is this person hot enough? Tall enough. Like, you know, into a plan I'll share? I won't date him. I was thinking it had to be. There was that element of superficiality. And when I started dating this time around, I feel like I was aware of how much someone's work ethic can be attractive. How one doesn't need to have the same educational background as me, but can we hold a conversation? And are we interested in growing our mindset? Like that kind of thing. Like, I used to think, oh, well, I went to college. I should date someone who went to college. That was just natural for me. But the degree wasn't what I was looking for. It was, can someone match me having an intellectual conversation? You don't need a college. Absolutely. You really don't. So like, being able to look a little bit more holistically at a person and also questioning the things that I thought for certain were so important about person. Another superficial one was, I grew up. My dad, I've never seen with facial hair. Like until, like, most recently, like, my dad was always clean cut. Yeah. A brother is always clean cut, short hair. So I was sort of raised with this expectation that nice young men were-- I grew up extremely, like, no fake hair, no long hair. And it is only the biggest joke now, because my fiance is a huge beard. He has hair longer than mine. I liked his nickname on social media. The bear. Yeah. Like, literally, this giant, lovable, hugable man. But, Alora and her 20s would have scrolled right past because long hair, I equated to not like laziness, but I was just like, nice young men don't have-- Don't they? Yeah. Well, I did it online with your idea. Like, I was a little bit more straight-laced about a few things like that. So just like, when it became much more important to me, like, how does someone treat another person? How would someone treat me? Like, I feel like you maybe are thinking, I don't want to discredit anybody younger, because honestly, I've met so many young people who make such great choices of relationships. It's really not like an age barrier. But I know for me, personally, what I was looking for, my 20s did change in my 30s and-- I feel like that goes on. And as you get older, you're looking for different-- like, my best friends in her 40s. What I'm looking for in a partner is different than what she's looking for in a partner. So there's definitely that element of evolution, like as people, like what our partner could look like. We got to embrace it, and I love everything you said. And then, another question, some more kind of flipping in script here, like, how can listeners support their lay bloomer friends? Because I know this is like, you want to help get them out there, you want to be there cheerleader, but sometimes you feel that resistance, or you don't want to overstep. What are your thoughts on that? I think the first thing is, if someone has confided in you that they don't have a lot of dating experience, treating that not as a problem to solve, but acknowledging that it is a pain point for them, and it can be hard to talk about, hard to live with. And when I was younger, I was literally surrounded by people who adored me and who were very much like, there's nothing wrong with you, don't worry about it. And I was like, well, I am worrying about it. I know I'm awesome. Thank you, I know I'm awesome, but I just wanted someone to acknowledge that this was a hard thing, that it was painful, and someone to validate the pain, because in just telling me, don't worry about it. They were trying to make me feel better. But instead, it felt like they were being like, you shouldn't, this shouldn't be bothering you. And I'm like, but it does. I grabbed myself just thinking about this. Yeah. So just the validation, I feel like, is so helpful. I think the other thing that is, again, if someone's open to this, we can feel like as light bloomers excluded from the conversation around dating and relationships. And if we're in a position where we want to be a part of it, like being inclusive, and just trying to make the conversation around dating fun, I remember my best friend, Alfred, she was like, oh, do you want me to help you make a dating profile or help you pick out pictures? And sometimes I was a hard now, I was like, no, thank you. But sometimes it was like, you know what? Yeah, because I feel like sometimes if I look at a selfie, and I'm like, yeah, look cute, but if she looks at a selfie, and she's like, girl, your jawline is popping, I'm like, is it? Oh, yeah, yeah, right, right, right. Can we not have friends? Yeah, who like a rally round that? You guys look incredible in this, do they? That's what I wish. Like being able to like make it like fun, or I remember her yelling at me for making those snap judgments. So I never was the kind of person who was like, yeah, you can pick out some people. That's another thing you can do, but I would never, I never did it. Like let your friend like pick out people. I do not think it's fun, no, but like I couldn't, way too much for control free to allow that. But literally just having like the conversation of like, oh, like, is there any, any promising batches? That was, that was a question people would ask me when I was on the dating apps and more vocal about it. And I could be like, yeah, here's my roster, or no, it's abysmal, and then the leads, it's a conversation of, you know, of, well, you know, there's someone out there for you, and it's fine, like I don't mind. It's not like they can't be supportive and positive. In other ways, just that first step of this is hard, this is painful. I'm sorry, you're going through this. I feel like it's critical before you can get to the, let's have a conversation around dating together. So on that note, I want to talk about the like, that part of the validation of the grief of like, you're going to have moments used to mention, used to cry yourself to sleep. That's, you know, so devastating to hear. And like my heart goes out to anyone who's going through that right now where you're like, what is wrong with me? Where is my person? What's going on? Even if you have dated and you've taken a long break and it's just been a decade since you've been in a relationship. So can you speak a little bit to that experience of like, how did you get through those moments? Not gracefully. Hey, that's honest. That's supposed to be graceful, maybe. I literally remember. I think the show is, it's a mini-caling. I'm sure I'm not saying her name right. Show called Never Have I Ever. And it follows like teenage drama, love story, anything. And I just remember crying over this, like, it was an episode of a, it was maybe a first date or a first kiss, but it was for 15 year olds. Like, they were 15 or 16 in the show. And I was like, ah, ah, like, why? And then this, that's TV, right? But like, sometimes it could be so painful to even just watch something like the mindset of Goddamn. Like, this happens for everyone and not for me. So I feel like you don't need to wish away your grief 'cause it is a hard thing to not have the life you thought you'd have by now. And I don't mean like you thought you were going to be a millionaire by now or like you thought you were going to, I don't know. Like, be a homeowner or like, yeah. Companion ship is like one of the oldest, most common universal human experiences. So it's very isolating being outside of it. And I feel like the first thing is to accept that you don't have anything to be embarrassed about. Like, you are not unworthy. Like, that's the first hurdle. And if that's something you talk about in therapy, if that's something you just like have a journal and you write about every day, I was given the suggestion one time to like write like 100 things you love about yourself. And if you can't come up with 100, try, but try for 10, like what's your stretch goal to like to remind yourself, and it's not just to boost your ego, it's to remind yourself why you are absolutely worthy of being a partner. Like what you have to offer another human being 'cause that's the other thing is I feel like the only attribute people can think of of why they would be worthy or unworthy is physical appearance. So like if you are in any way, not the mainstream. - If you're in a larger body, if you're, yeah, for sure. - That is definitely something I know so many people. Again, regardless of your experience, your dating experience, struggle with, but just being able to come up with that list of what makes me awesome. What do I have to contribute to a relationship, to a partnership? In the simplest forms, like being able to give somebody a great hug or being able to have a vulnerable conversation, like it doesn't need to be like, oh, I come with this salary range and I can do that. Because I need to be that kind of just like, what can you offer as a person? And then I do stand by the fact that, I mean, I'm an auditory processor for sure, which is why I made a TikTok in the first place. I know not everyone's gonna jump on TikTok and be like, yo, I never did all this stuff. That was my crazy thing. But even if you are filming yourself, saying, you know, I am a late bloomer, I don't have a lot of dating experience just to hear yourself say it out loud. Like I feel like the more you can say something less power it has over you. So like learning to like lessen that whole, there are things that I worked on. And again, you don't need to be a fully healed person to start dating. Like I was still battling embarrassment and shame and all those feelings going into dating. I just, the big thing I stopped doing was letting them hold me back from trying. Like you can still feel all those things and heal from all those things whilst in this process, I just didn't want it to hold me back anymore. - For sure. Thank you for sharing that. And I think what's so key is that you didn't wait for those feelings to go away. You decided you made a conscious decision to show up despite these feelings of shame and sadness and grief and be like, you know, but I can still change this story. I still have a chance. And that's true if you're 32, 42, 52, like love doesn't have an age limit. - Absolutely not. And I think it's a myth that you'll feel ready for like that big thing, that big decision. Like I don't think I feel ready for anything ever done in my life. - You just do it. - You just do it. - You get used to not feeling ready and doing things anyway. Speaking of that, I would love to hear a little bit about your initial experience with physical intimacy stuff because that is another hurdle that I think people are like, okay, maybe I can go on a date, but at kissing someone, being physically in someone's proximity, hugging and more, like what was that like for you? - So for me, again, I handle nothing gracefully, okay? I also discovered as I started dating that if I am super anxious, I will Trevor, like I will full on tremble like vibrate. - Truly. - Hands will shake. Sometimes my head will twitch. That's a great thing to find out. Like as you're giving kisses, going in for the kiss and having sex and giving head all those things for the first time, love this for me. But I like to lean with it because if people think I was just like faking it till I made it. - No, I couldn't even fake it. - Like, so I went into any of those experiences asking my partner to just be patient with me and to go slow because I have the courage of a deer or a rabbit. So like, if we could just-- - I think you need to give yourself more creditoral or come on. - I just like to acknowledge it because again, doing things scared, there's power in that. Like you can write your heart speeding, you might be shaking, you can shave rabbit. - I have a beautiful first kiss, fully shaking. And someone like rubbing my back and giving me a hug. First time having sex, same thing. Like I was vocal about the fact that this was a first time for me, can we go slow in anything? And I feel like if someone is willing to be patient and supportive and guide you through sometimes like those experiences, that is the biggest neon greenest flag for them. You being nervous is not the red flag. It's there being supportive of it. And if they cannot be, if someone makes you feel like crap about that, that's-- - And if they pressure you. And like I'm sure that's a whole like people. I mean, you know, and dating, early dating, timing of all this stuff comes up a lot. When do we have a first kiss? And that's from-- I got the question for people who have experience, don't have experience like when does this happen? And there is no right time or right pacing. It just what matters what you're comfortable with. And if the other person is also cool with that. - Yep. And I feel like there is something so special about being able to share what you are vulnerable or afraid of, like that is something that you can drop people together, like the putting on a brave face and faking it, I don't know, like that is totally a strategy. I don't want to knock it because yes, you can. You can, I just can't. - There are many options. - There are many options, but I feel like, you know, showing someone that you are vulnerable, that you are nervous, but like communicating, I'm nervous about this. Like, can you help me through this or be patient with me as we will like slowly figure this out? - Was so critical to me and I have had great experiences honestly with that communication style. I know not everybody has in this world said. - Unfortunately. - Great. But for me, that's very encouraging to know that, yeah, I'm not going to get this right, but then once you start to like practice more, okay? Once you get through those initial times, and I'm not saying those initial times weren't special, they were absolutely in their own ways, but like, I think people get so intimidated and nervous about physical intimacy that you forget that we're talking about like the strongest pleasure receptors like in our bodies. Like getting to that fun bar is so fun. And like the more you get, so I feel like there's something so encouraging and knowing that the more you practice, or you are supported, the closer you are bonding with someone potentially. - That just makes it so much more like it gets better as it goes, like each time. - It's only uphill and it's only, yeah, you're only getting better from there. I love it. I love that, that's very encouraging. And I think again, that that can apply to anyone listening no matter what your experience level is. Like even, it's normal to be nervous, even if you have experience with someone new. It's normal to start off kind of awkward and not graceful and you have to have a lot of communication up front even if you've had sex before. Like that's normal as well. It's not like once you've done it, you never have to have a conversation before sleeping with someone you ever again. (laughs) Nope, nope, you're gonna have to talk about it with everyone, do you choose something? - Feelings of nervousness, they were different when I met my fiance. And like we started having sex and all that, but like there was a different kind of nervousness, but it was a nervousness that I communicated. And it did make those all of our time so special together as you're relearning too. Like just because the second time around, yes, I technically wasn't like a virgin anymore. You still, everybody has different preferences, different bodies, so you're still relearning what each other like, all that stuff. - For sure, this is so great. So Alara, we're gonna take a quick break and come back with two listener questions. Are you ready? - I'm ready. - I can be pretty selective, selective about who I date and selective about my clothing. Before I put anything in my card, I'm looking at the fabric, I'm checking reviews, and really thinking about if a piece fits into my wardrobe. So when I finally buy something, I know it's worth it. And Quince has passed every test. I'm currently wearing their Mongolian casual hoodie. The quality is incredible, and it's one of the coziest things I own. I never wanna take it off. Quince has all the staples covered. From 100% select tops and skirts for easy dressing up to perfectly cut denim for everyday wear, their wardrobe essentials are crafted to last season after season. And the quality shows up in every detail, the stitching, the fit, the fabrics, and like everything from Quince, each piece is made with premium materials and ethical trusted factories, and priced far below what other luxury brands charge. I also got their Merino wool bomber jacket, which is perfect for California winders, which aren't freezing, but you still need a solid jacket. And Quince has been more than covered. There's really nothing like starting the new year with some fresh pieces in your wardrobe. Refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Don't wait, go to quince.com/talia for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's q-u-i-n-c-e.com/talia to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com/talia. - So I have two questions for you. I'm also a lead bloomer, and I'm in my first relationship of 14 months long, and I'm a 32. I feel like I have a lot of pressure from myself, but also my friends and family for it to work out. For things to happen on a quicker timeline because of my age, even though this is literally my first relationship. If I was 25 in my first relationship, I don't think I would have the same pressures. Is this something Alora experienced? - 100%. I don't think that people mean to be any kind of way. Like they're just happy for you, you know? And they want you to catch it. - Right, they're excited. - Definitely that life. I will say the pressure I felt the most was when I've asked someone in her mid-30s now, the pressure to not let my biological clock run out. I have gotten that from people so many times, but I just like to remind people that just because something is happening at an age that is older doesn't mean that I can't still take my time and enjoy it. It also doesn't mean that this person needs to be my forever person. I'm still figuring that out. Just because you're doing something later in life doesn't mean that you don't get that. Like, obviously nobody wants to have like sloppy chaotic journey through love, but also that's kind of a part of the journey. - It can be part of the journey, yeah. - Like I remember being frustrated with people because it's like you expect me to do this flawlessly because I'm older, but I should be able to make mistakes and figure it out as I go and decide what is right or not right for me on a time frame that I feel good about. Like yes, I do appreciate the advice of others, but also, you know, if you met your partner when you were a teenager and you're telling me now what my relationship should or shouldn't look like, but you've been with them for your whole adult life. You don't necessarily not that you can't empathize, but you just don't have the same background as I do. You don't necessarily know what this feels like. So just to understand that I'm gonna make different choices maybe that you have made, but it doesn't make them less valid. - Oh my God, that's such great advice. I love that answer. And it sounds like you had really good boundaries with like, you're like, it's like you can listen to what other people say, but you don't have to take that. You don't have to actually apply it to your life and internalize it and make it mean something. It's like, okay, my parents are excited for me. They just want to see me keep it moving, but I know where I'm at and what I want and what I'm doing. And they might not really fully get the picture because they met two decades ago, you know, and yeah, for sure. So that's wonderful. I have another question for you. This is just a dating dilemma that came in not relating to late bloomers of at all. Are you ready? - I'm ready. Let's do it. - Okay. - Hello, Talia. I've been in the dating trenches for about a year now and I'm finding myself having a hard time getting anywhere with anybody. It's starting to feel draining. Nothing has lasted longer than a month. It's always me ending it due to something not adding up for me, whether they're emotionally unavailable or just a bad communicator. I'm two years post of worse and was married to a very avoidant person. So I know these situations trigger me. I'm 35 and I've gone on a few dates with 33-year-old guy. And when we're together, it's great. However, his texting style does not match mine when we're apart. I brought the issue to his attention, mentioning that it's hard for me to say connected when it takes a day to receive a response. And I was curious if he preferred another way of communication. He said he was sorry and that that wasn't his attention, but he is bad at texting lately and has made plans to see me on Friday. But I don't know. I get so turned off by inconsistency that I'm not sure I want to see him anymore. I'm stuck on whether I actually have a good reason to move on or if I'm self-sabotaging and not giving people a fair chance. Help, do I say thank you next to soon? (laughing) Yeah, what are your thoughts? - So I totally understand the panic and anxiety around not getting a text. - Yeah? - How do you-- - Are you gonna get it? - Yeah. (laughing) - And like the joy, just like the sheer joy you get when that does come in because you think someone is thinking of you, right? Like they're putting in the upper. - Yeah, for sure. - I just want to say that, I mean, she acknowledges in this that they've already talked about communication styles. And I think I just feel like there's more than one way for someone to show that they are putting effort into you than just texting. And that can be unsettling for so many of us, especially like we're in the millennial range right now who have grown up with this like constant communication. But I'm coming from this as someone who also struggled with I want the text now and my fans, it's not great. At texting, he was not fantastic at it. So I don't even know that I have like a solution. I feel like raising the point that this is a struggle for you is so valid and so invalidating like that you had the conversation with the person that would have been my first method of attack. Like if anything is ever bothering me, I wanna talk about it. But I don't feel like it's worth cutting that opportunity off unless there's like other ways that this person is showing like they're not prioritizing you in some way. Like it's a new, like if they're not putting in any effort. Like if this is the only way they put an effort then yeah. But like if someone is still trying to go on dates with you spend time with you, like can you start like, I don't know, like a like a weekly call or something. Like there are other ways and maybe that other person doesn't even know what to suggest. Like if they're just not necessarily a frequent textor. Like they do. And I feel like the time and the time of like scheduled calls is like like passed, like it's not like a single thing. - I don't disagree. - I think you could schedule a call if people are like, oh yeah, the media offering alternatives to this situation and also seeing, you know, what other effort they put in. But yeah, too soon for this one stipulation. If there was others. - I mean, yeah, I agree. I think the, I've been bad at texting lately is kind of a like little orange flag to me. Being like, are you, is kind of sounds like an excuse? I don't know, is that of like a, I don't know. I don't love that. But I do agree with what you're saying. Like look for other signs of effort. He made plans to see you Friday. Did those plans actually happen? We don't know, but let's assume they did. Are they asking you questions? Are they are they like showing interest in you? Are they present with you on the dates? Like that really does matter. Texting once a day communication can feel really frustrating. So if it really, really gets you down, I think it's okay if you walk away. I don't think another thing I wanted to comment on is I think it's normal to have a period after something like a divorce or a relationship with someone who's really avoidant to have the pendulum swing the other way. We are not forgiving at all. And you're just like no, F this, F this. I was like, I don't want to do this. And I think that's okay. You can go through that path and wait for the pendulum to kind of swing back. As you create more safety within yourself, as you realize that not everyone is super avoidant. And some people are just bad at texting. And like, and I think, so I think it's okay. If you have this period of being a little bit too discerning to the point where you are just not letting anything go for a month, also that is normal. Like exploring something for a month and it not working out doesn't mean that you're doing anything wrong necessarily. You just might not have found your match. - You're one person closer to finding your person. - Yeah, exactly. So those are my thoughts. I think have a little bit more grace for yourself, but also remember like to look for interest in other ways and not zero in on the communication. Texting super so much to zoom out a little bit like you said, so great advice. Allura, is there anything else you want to share with the listeners, anything that would help them feel more positive in their dating journey? - Just that you cannot be late for your whole life. And literally our opportunities to try new experiences and meet new people only expire with our time and earth. So I don't care if you're freaking 95. (laughs) - Yeah, this game's not too late. Like it's just not too late. - Yeah, that's beautiful. Allura, where can we find more of you? - My author website is alluradannen.com but I am on YouTube, TikTok and Instagram as alluradannen as well. - Amazing. I'll link your book in the show notes. That's a great read. I highly recommend it to everyone. Thank you so much for being here, Allura. This is wonderful. - Thank you for having me. Love the chitchat, loved it. (upbeat music) - So what did you think? What are your biggest takeaways? Drop a comment below if you're listening on Spotify or shoot me a DM on Instagram at dating.intentionally. I loved Allura's reminder that no one is owed your personal information until you feel like they deserve it from you. Like they have to earn that. You don't have to lead with the thing you're most insecure about. You can simply say, I don't have a lot of dating experience and leave it at that until you're ready to share more. I also really appreciated her point about validation. If you have a friend who's a late bloomer, sometimes the most helpful thing is actually avoiding comments like, don't worry about it or it'll happen when you least expect it. Sometimes they just need you to acknowledge that. It's hard and painful and you don't have to, you know, do that before jumping into cheerleader mode. And finally, I'm holding on to her closing words. You cannot be late for your own life. Your opportunities to try new experiences and meet new people only expire with your time on this planet. So whether you're 25 or 55 and beyond, it's not too late. So I wanna thank you so much for listening. Thanks for trusting me. Don't forget you're doing great. If you know someone who is navigating dating and could use a confidence boost or fresh perspective, share this episode with them. And if this podcast has helped you, a five star of you on Apple or Spotify goes a long way. Once again, I'm Talia. This is dating intentionally and I'll catch you next time. [MUSIC]
PodcastTranscript AI