Dating (LGBTQIA+ Edition)

Hello there friend! If you're hearing this, it's MaxFundrive 2026. What an exciting time! This isn't the newest episode, so you might not know that it's MaxFundrive, so this is your chance to support the show you love. MaxFund shows are artist-owned and audience-supported, and this is the time of year we'll re-ask you to consider supporting the show. For just five bucks a month, you can support this show, and you'll get access to hundreds of hours of bonus content, and there's so much other good stuff there. It's all the bonus content from all the past MaxFundrive Trust me, it's more than worth it. So find out more, join, boost, upgrade, all of those things, at maxwemfund.org/join, and if you're already a member, thank you so much! [Music] Hello Internet, I'm your husband host Travis Mackle Roy. And I'm your wife host, Theresa Mackle Roy. And you're listening to Schmanes. It's extraordinary etiquette. For ordinary occasions, hello, my dove. Hello dear. I am so very excited for people to hear this episode we recorded yesterday, all of our guests are amazing. We're going to introduce them in a second on the show, but it was just such a pleasant, just a pleasant conversation, and it was just so nice. It really was. I love hanging out with people. Thank you for getting such marvelous guests. Yes, they're well don't thank me. Thank them for being incredible, but also do thank me, because I'm great. Before we get into the episode, we wanted to go ahead and knock out our thank you notes to our sponsor. So that we don't have to cut it up in. Wait, we don't want to throw off the flow, because the conversation was just great. So Theresa, who was our first sponsor this week? Well, Schmanes is sponsored in part by Sun Basket, and they deliver delicious meal kits right to your door. It makes healthy cooking easy and convenient for any busy lifestyle. They provide tons of organic produce and clean ingredients and seasonal vegetables and such. There's 18 healthy options to choose from, which include paleo and gluten-free, lean and clean and vegan. I think that it's a great thing to have, especially during the summer, where we're all trying to get those activities in, get them in there. I will say here in the TNT McRoy household, any kind of meal subscription, it's just so nice to like, you know, because we have that, especially now with BB around, we'll have this conversation all the time like, so what do you want for dinner? What do you want to make? What should we make? What are we going to have? Right? And knowing like, we don't have to like, generate up a brand new plan every time. Right. We can just go look at the sun baskets we have and say like, oh, cool, this sounds great. Let's make this. And it's all right there. It's all right there. And you can go to sunbasket.com/shmanners today and get $35 off your first order. Again, paleo, gluten-free, lean and clean, vegan, Mediterranean, family options. There's just something for everyone. So go today to sunbasket.com/shmanners for your $35 off. One more time, sunbasket.com/mshmanne.com/mnshmanne.com. I want to tell you about quip. We're also sponsored by quip. Now here's the thing. Not too long ago. This was maybe two or three or four dentist appointments ago. The person cleaning my teeth was like, do you use an electric toothbrush? And I was like, no. And they were like, you should. And I was like, oh, cool. And I don't think they were throwing shade directly upon me. But rather, they're just like, maybe you could get up in there a little better. Yeah. I think I don't know if electric toothbrushes are for my gums, but probably for my gums because I used to have bad gums problems. And so I went and I did some pricing out and I looked at them and listened. I was at first very daunted, right? Because looking into store, elected toothbrushes seemed very pricey. But I would like to tell you now about quip because quip is an electric toothbrush that is a fraction of the cost of bulkier brushes and packs premium vibrations for a perfect two minute clean because they don't worry about making it look, you know, super flashy. They just focus on a good quality electric toothbrush. And I love that two minute business. Oh yeah. It is, it makes it so easy to be able to just switch sides, switch front, switch back, all that stuff when you feel that that little reminder pulse. And I don't know about you, but with a manual toothbrush, I have a hard time getting all the way to two minutes. Well, and that's the thing is so like the really nice thing about quip is especially for us, we travel a lot. Like an electric toothbrush is so, like this feels so weird because it's not like giant giant, but you know what I mean compared to like a regular toothbrush. And a quip is closer to the size of a regular toothbrush than an electric toothbrush. So it doesn't take up a lot more space in your pack and it doesn't feel weird packing it in your suitcase. And there's another thing I love, they deliver new brush heads on a dentist recommended schedule every three months for just five dollars and that includes free shipping worldwide. So you never end up with like old gross brush heads, it's great. So quip starts at just $25 and if you go to get quip.com slash shmanners right now, you'll get your first refill pack free with a quip electric toothbrush. That's G-E-T-Q-U-I-P.com/shmanners, check it out. Teresa, we also have a jumbo tron this week. I would like you to read it because there is a part in it I believe is addressed to me. Okay, check out our show. Is this adulting at isthisadultingpod.com or wherever you get your podcasts, be happy, stay healthy and go hug someone. Please join Chris and Steven each week as they try to break down the stigma on mental illness through comedy, games and genuine discussion. They prove that we own our illnesses, not the other way around. Teresa, can we borrow Travis for a sec? Travis. Yes. We've been together a long time. You and Magnus have helped inspire us to rush in even when it's scary. Okay. We couldn't afford a ring, but would you do us the honor of joining us on our show as our guest? Check yes or no or email us dealer's choice. Very well. Tweet it me when this comes out. We'll see if we can figure something out. So thank you. Thank you for asking. Lovely. If you would like to get a jumbo tron on there, you can what it maximumfund.org/jumbotron. We're going to hop into the episode now. And you know what? We'll go ahead and do our wrap up too so that we don't, you know, so we'll just end the episode on a very pleasant note with all of our guests. But you can follow us on Twitter @Schmanerscast. You can email us. [email protected], especially if you have ideas for episodes. We're always looking for suggestions. Check out all the other amazing shows on maximumfund.org. What else Teresa? Go on Facebook and join the fan run Facebook group Schmaners Faners. We also like to thank Brent Brent, Brentlethos Black for our theme music. And that's available as a ringtone where there's our sold. Thank you to Kayla and Wassel for our Twitter thumbnail art and to Keeley Weiss photography for that banner for the Facebook group. Okay. Without any further ado, please enjoy our conversation with Mikey Newman, Taipei Diskin, Riley Silverman and James Arthur. Enjoy. This week we're so excited. We're joined by just a whole panel of people joining us for this episode. First, when I introduce James Arthur, James is a co-host of Minority Corner as well as a correspondent from Marvel and like a bunch of other things. Hi, James. Hi. Good to be here. I wear many hats. I also start doing stand-up comedy. So here comes the jokes. Yeah. Too much, James. Leave some for the rest of us. No, I know. I'm just a greedy, greedy man. You only got one life to live. So you got to live it to the fullest. I guess that is true. James, is there anything that you want the people listening to know about you? I am an out-and-proud gay man. I just had a great pride festival. My birthday was pride this weekend. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. That's why I have Tara Reed, party girl voice right now. So excuse that. You sound great. Thank you. Next I want to introduce Riley Silverman. Riley is a writer for International Waters on Maximum Fund 2. A comedian and writer. Hello, Riley. Hello. Thank you for having me. I don't know. I didn't have anything to follow. Yeah, I'm a writer, comedian. I write for sci-fi wires, fan girls, page as well. And I am an out-and-proud transgender and lesbian woman. There we go. We're also standing up. Don't come from me because I'll come for you. We're also joined by Mikey Newman. Mikey is the host of movies with Mikey on YouTube and is great. I didn't write down a second. I have two credits for everyone else. And from Mikey, I just have host my movies with Mikey. Hi Mikey. Hello, Tristan. Travis, I did work at Gearbox software on games like Borderlands for 16 years, so that's a good, I think, number two. I host a show on the internet called Movies of Mikey. It's about finding the positivity and film and what we can learn and just trying to put joy and care out into the world and kindness. And I, for a couple years, have been openly asexual. It was an identity I struggled with for a long time and now I'm happy. Great. And our fourth co-host is, well, one of my best friends, but also co-hosts of Run, a doctor who fancast with me and also works as a writer and producer. Yes, for an app called Yarn, it's tiny diskin. Yeah, yeah, that's kind of, that's close. I'm a producer and kind of a typical creative. They say creative executive, that sounds like nothing to me, but I guess that's what I am. And I am also a bisexual woman. That's it. Well, we've got like six pages of questions, so let us. Wait, so we actually have managed to get the LGBTQ in this, yeah, is anyone plus impressive? We did. Plus size, so I'm the plus. Wonderful. I think that you want to say, so let me make clear, before we get into questions, I want to make this clear to the people at home. No one here today is meant to represent everyone, right? This is not like, we're not answering, we're not going to answer anything with like authority or definitive statements. This is all about like personal experience and personal opinions and advice, you know, and advice is inherently from your own point of view. We just want to have a lot of people on the panel so that we can get a lot of different point of view. So first question, this is from Kay. How do you ask out someone of the same gender in a way that they won't freak out if they're straight? I mean, the thing is when you ask anybody out, there's like a degree of people freaking out, or like being unsettled or being a little, not even a bad way, but it kind of puts you on your haunches a bit when you're being asked out. So I think that like the trick, my thought when I read this is like, you should probably know a little bit about somebody before you ask them out. And I think like have a conversation with them first and like talk them about their interests, like find like probe them a little bit with questions to like find out what their interests are. And a lot of times they'll be able to kind of like reveal to you if they're straight or not. And then, and then you know a little bit more if it's comfortable to ask them out anyway. And if you're looking for a great way about how to even like start a conversation with someone that you think is cute, as my therapist told me, just say hi. I as a great opener with all these apps and things like that, people have forgotten like how to talk to each other. And I started just saying hi and I was getting laid left and right. So just put that out there. And it works in different languages. Ola, Bonjour, like it's a great opener. I had a girl walk by me once and go, wow, are you and a girls? And that like flattered me because she like seemed off put by me, which like boosted my ego enough to be like, uh, maybe, maybe yeah, what? And so that worked on me. That she asked me out like a week later. Yeah, that would work on me for sure. Right? If someone's like, Hey, hi, wow, are you, do you like people as my gender? Because I would like to be because I'm part of my gender. Yeah. And we've been done. That's nice to know. Do you like girls? I know. It's nice to know. Me. It's hard. That's a really, really hard one. Because I don't know. There's, there's a wake of broken relationships in my, in my, in my past. It's, it's tough. You got to find the right people. You got to build trust. I generally start with friendship and see where it goes from there. Sometimes, you know, relationships are about sharing. So you might do things that, that you, you elect to go a little further than you normally comfortably would. I don't know. It's, it's, it's something that I've only been really dealing with for a, for a few years, whereas all the years before that I was just uncomfortable all the time. So really, it's about finding your own comfort and, and for me being as honest as possible with anyone you're with and, and, and hopefully they will, will find comfort with you as well. Honesty really is, this is Teresa. Hi. Hello. Honesty really is something that we talk to our, our listeners about all the time where being honest is probably the most polite thing that you can do for another person and it's not impolite to state your needs and talk about what you want. What I would consider is, is not manorally is to allow yourself to build up animosity because you're not getting what you want and it would be, it's more polite to ask for what you want before all that happens. So I really, I think it's a, a great thing that you mentioned about, you know, communicating and being open and honest about. Agreed. I actually feel like that's a good answer for a lot of the questions that you sent me. I sent us because I'm looking at a lot of last night and I'm going a lot of this is just about communication and openness. So that, that's actually really valid. Yeah, I was going to say, like we got another question from Hank that I think kind of dovetails a little bit into this, which is at what point should you reveal that your trans to a potential partner? I feel like that is, that is such a like hot button issue and it, I actually literally just sat yesterday on Facebook and watched a bunch of cisgender people have a disc argument about it as if I wasn't sitting right there. And I think that it's really, this is very much your mileage may vary kind of situation because like it's such a tough thing because a lot of times this concept of revealing our identity like is also kind of like implying that we're not who we say we are because like if Hank is a trans man, I'm guessing or from the email possibly I could be getting it wrong, it could be so I could, but like, so I'll say I'll use my own example instead. So I'm a trans woman for the fact that matter is my honesty, most people know that I'm trans, like it's very surprising when someone doesn't know that I'm trans, but like it's weird because if someone is attracted to me as a woman, then like I don't, it's weird that I feel like I have to go, oh by the way, you might debate my womanhood at some point. Like it's a weird argument. So I don't, I never want to tell someone exactly when to do it because there's such arguments about it and there's such like there can be like even violence about it at times. So I think it's just, it's one of these ones where it's just going to be like when you are comfortable and when you feel like you can have that honest conversation with your partner, like if it's something that you need to talk about. I mean, obviously if you have a physical situation, like if you haven't had a, like if you have had surgery or if you have had surgery and it might affect you some way like where it's going to come up naturally in the course of events, it might be good to like give the person a heads up like, hey, this is, you're going to know, this is going to be a thing. I'd rather tell you now before we have our pants off, you know, so that might be a way to do it. Like it's so tough. This is a really tough one. This is an anonymous question from Gmail. I haven't felt completely comfortable coming out as a lesbian in my hometown/high school. So I spent most of my time between teen years as a closet a gay and thus I have never kissed anyone or dated or done anything romantly, romantly romantic-ish. Now I'm headed off to college in the fall and I'm planning on being out and proud while there. So I'm excited to finally be able to be in relationships, but is it going to be weird having no experience? Or is that a normal thing for gays that are finally comfortable being out? It seems like most queer people I know were either out in high school or dated people of the opposite gender while in high school. Also, if I get in a situation where I'm going to kiss someone, what's the least awkward way to say, I've never done this before or do I just go for it? I'm very excited about this question. So you go first. I talk a lot. Okay, cool. Thank you. I didn't come out or if I didn't figure out that I was by until I was 27, so I spent so much of my life operating as a straight person. I wasn't even closeted. I just didn't know that I liked women. And having to have those conversations as an adult can be sort of weird and feels like going through puberty again, because even in my most recent relationship with women, I was like, "Hey, I still feel very vulnerable and sensitive about this because I'm still fairly new to it. I haven't dated that many women. I'm still always a little hesitant to make moves. It's a little bit difficult." And I also think that there's an inherent kind of push and pull with same-sex relationships because there's not a prescribed who does the stuff step-by-step manual. There is, with heterosexual relationships a lot of the time. So I do think that works both in your favor and against you because it's like, "Well, who does it?" But also, they might do it. So you might be off the hook. It might be like, "Hey, they're going to kiss you and you don't have to worry about being like, I've never done this before. You could just let somebody take you out and kiss you and it'll be really cool." But I also think like, I don't think that there's anything inherently awkward about being like, "Hey, I really like you and I really want to kiss you, but I have never done this before." So like, sorry. I think that's cute. It's an honesty thing that we're talking about as well. Being honest and vulnerable, there's something that is, when you put yourself out there, I think it will create more of an intimate interaction as well. And also, like, people who have started kissing, there may be like one or two years ahead of you. Like, you know, you're not that far apart. Right. school and I just recently got good at it. Yeah, that's a lifelong learning practice. And I'm on the same way. I wasn't out back in high school. I don't even think there was a GSA. I went to a military town. And I was just watching Love Simon. And I thought, I'm kind of glad personally that I did not actually come out in high school because being a teen is hard enough. And I felt like for myself, when I came out in college, it was a huge supportive atmosphere. When I was like, oh, I think I'm by, and the people were so supportive of like, oh, yeah, that's so cool. Go for it. Yeah. And next thing I know, I'm like choreographing the closing finale for the queer fashion show that we did at UC Santa Cruz. Like, I'm such a supportive atmosphere that I would not have had that same experience in high school. So like, I think you're going in with like, I'm going to be me in college as I think it's a beautiful attitude. And you'll hopefully be very supported. I want to add that too. Just like to feel a little more like relief to yourself, a female person, I can guarantee you that you will not be the only out freshly out queer kid at college. Like, you were going to find a sportist board of different types of queer people. And you're going to find lots of girls who have not been with women yet or anyone yet either. And like, if you join like any sort of like campus queer organization, you're probably going to find people who are somewhat on your wavelength or understand what it was like. The nice thing about dating in the queer community is that most of us have been through the process of coming out and finding ourselves. And a lot of us did. Like, myself came, I was 27 when I came out as well. And so I came out way later in life. And as a result, that I was super closed off and closet and like, like, did not date a lot when I was younger, because I was like afraid of people finding out who I was. But the last thing that I want to add to this is that going back to our whole honesty thing, like, you know, you're making this big bold declaration that I'm going to be out in prowl when I go to college. And so I would add, on top of that, make this the time where you start off with just being this honest, open person about who you are with dating relationships, just build open and honest communication with your partners into the very core of your dating DNA from the beginning. And that way it's like a good attitude that you'll have moving forward. And there's also nothing that says, like, out and proud, you don't have to like run down the street, trailing a rainbow flag, being like, I never kissed a girl. Like, there's no. Yeah. But if you want to, that's totally encourage you. That's awesome. And I will get you don't have to. You don't have to. If you do that, girls will kiss you. Like if you run around, you run around, having no problem with a rainbow flag yelling, I've never kissed a girl. I guarantee you you will get kissed at some point in that run. I've never kissed a girl yet. Right. I leave that window open there at the end of like, oh, I see. Just set up a little like lemonade stand. But instead of lemonade, just be like, oh, I've never kissed a girl. I wrote a college make out list of people like, who do you want to make out with? On my instant messenger, this is all I am. We had instant away messenger and like the away message. It was just a list of like, everyone I wanted to make out with. And that quarter alone, I made up with like, 48 people. So just be open and honest about your intentions. This next question, this is from Emily. How do you make it clear your ace without them thinking you're a romantic? What's the difference between too much and too little info in regards to that? That was a really hard thing to like figure out. Because like for a while, like I was going to people in Amy Falcone was a friend who really helped me understand who I was. Because when I was exploring my sexuality, I didn't even know that was a thing. I just knew that I destroyed relationships left and right. And then I was finding about, you know, arrows and aces. And as someone who is not a romantic, that is something you need to talk about. It's always going to come down to communication. You got to be honest. But it is an uphill battle. Like I'll be honest that being the A at the end of LGBTQIA, like representation is an issue. So I think all the open aces out there, we need to get a little louder. We need to kind of fight for ours. I think the I and the A get left off the end a lot. And that can be tough. Sometimes we're just a plus. Well, have a plus. So I'm hoping that we can all help each other in this community to be proud and out and accept the fact that we have a queer identity and we deserve to be here. And I think that's those are the steps to getting there. Here's a-- this is kind of a universal question for everyone. This is from Josh. How do I ask a friend out on the date, but still say friends if it goes poorly? Good luck, Godspeed. Yeah, that's true of anybody. Good luck. You know what? I managed to do it. Just don't be a jerk. Right. It's awkward asking somebody out, but it's almost always flattering to be asked out. And just have a date. And then if you actually have a date and it doesn't go well, or if you ask someone out and they reject you, just be cool about it. Don't be mean to them if they return you down. If they say, hey, I like you, but I just don't think we had that kind of chemistry. Just be with it. And I actually think it's good too. If you are friends with someone and you do have romantic feelings for them and they reject you, I do think it is smart to give yourself a little bit of space from them for like a week or two or whatever. I'm going to go close you are. Just to like give yourself time to get over your feelings for them so you can see them as your friend again. Don't try to rush right back into being besties or whatever if they've rejected you. Like take time to feel your feelings because your feelings are valid, but they're also not responsible for them. So I also think we talk about honesty. And I think it's not just honesty with the other person, but also with yourself. I went on a date with a friend in college. And like the date went fine because we're friends. And so we talked about, but at the end of the night, we kissed and literally both of us felt nothing. And like the kiss and like then like she kind of looked at me and she was like, that was weird, right? Like that was, and I was like, yeah, you know what? I felt nothing too. Let's be friends. Like that was, we both kind of like we're honest in that moment of like, okay, cool. Instead of trying to pretend like it was weird or trying to pretend like, yeah, this could be something like we're both like, no, no, this is fine. And the thing about this situation in particular is that the person who kind of goes out on a limb and tries to initiate maybe a more relationship than just friends. You can often feel hurt, right? But the way that I think is a good mindset to get out of that is to be like, you deserve a romantic relationship with someone who wants to be in a romantic relationship with you. And there's, I really just don't, I don't subscribe to the idea of unrequited love because you deserve better than that. You can still be friends with this person, but you deserve a good romantic relationship with someone who wants to be with you. - Yeah, if someone does not want to be with you, then why would you want to be with them? - And I think there's also something about, I've been really trying to be a champion of being brave and having courage. It can seem a little terrifying to do this. But sometimes we gotta put on our brave pants and just go for it. And like I think what we've been saying is respect that the other person has the, they also can say no and that's also okay. But to heal yourself, like whatever your healing practice is and then get back on the horse, I think sometimes we get hurt by these things and that creates bitterness to us as we start and we start getting jaded in the whole entire dating scene or whatnot. So it's important to like, all right, they said no, you move on, you're still beautiful and amazing person and get your affirmations on. - And a lot of times we even build up this idealized version of the person that we have feelings for in our hands that they're not actually gonna live up to. So it's easy to also be like, oh yeah, I guess, like it'd be cool if we were together, but at the same time, like it'll never be as good as what I think it is in my head anyway. And so like learn, like that's, they're not into me the same way. So we're never gonna have this earth shadow in romance. So we're just gonna get along and it'll be fine. - And instead of expectation, have appreciation, that's what I'm doing. - Yeah, very nice. - And also, yeah, yeah. - Do like, that's a good, teachered idea. - I was just gonna say, I think it's okay to have that conversation at the beginning and be mindful of each other's feelings and basically give yourself parachute to say, you know what, we're hurting each other. Let's not do this because you should value the friendship more than just tanking all things. So I think if you both believe that, be mindful of both sets of feelings the entire time and be honest when you wanna just go back to me and friends. That's also okay. - And I will say some of my best friendships are people that I either dated or tried to date and didn't work out and I'm still friends with to this day. So I mean, it's very, very possible to stay friends with somebody you didn't date. - This is another anonymous question from Gmail. As the parent of one child that identifies as non-binary, non-straight, what the heck can we do as parents to offer advice or even just be there for them in this arena? We have dating experience, sure, but this is a very different situation in a very different world and we want to be there and help in as many ways as we can. - See, yeah, it is a different situation in a different world but I feel like that's gonna be the case of every generation and every type of thing, even like straight courtships are different now than they were when we were children and when our parents were children. So I think the trick is to stop thinking of it in those terms and think of it in the first part. If you just wanna be there for your kids, then be there for your kids and if you don't understand something, that's okay, just listen to them and give them the agency to express how they feel about stuff. And if you will find stuff that you relate to, I do so much stand up comments about my dating life where I talk about being a transgender lesbian. And yet I managed to perform and get laughs from straight people who you know might have walked in going like I never relate to this person, but at the end of the day, our dating experiences are all more similar than they are different. It's just a matter of who our choice of partners are. So I also, I think that that I know that with my parents, I wished that they had asked me more questions and I don't mean specific questions, but I think like just if one of them had been like, "Hey, how are you feeling about this? How does this feel? How what is difficult? What's new? How do you like listening is important, but I also think that like my family kind of waited for me to talk and what I really needed was for someone to be like, "Hey, are you okay? Is this difficult?" And I would have been like, "Yeah, isn't having a hard time?" And I think just like checking in with like really simple questions, like how do you feel? How are you feeling about this part of you? Is really kind of open up the door for them to be like, "Actually, I'm kind of feeling nervous, or actually I'm really excited," or whatever it is. And then you can start to relate a little more easily. And I think you're right, right? Like it's, we are so much more similar than we are different. Yeah. And I think it's also getting comfortable with the uncomfortable, because it can, especially this initial conversations, and there's no road map for even if it's for any sort of a situation. There's no direct road map. And like you're saying, you kind of have to like listen and kind of just take it step by step. You might say the wrong thing, and it's the recovery of that. And anything so nice, we get so afraid to not, we're going to say the wrong thing that we don't say anything, and it just leaves this sort of silence. So the more that we get comfortable with the uncomfortableness, we're able to sort to navigate and build our own sort of road map through it. Yeah. The fact that you're there and you're trying and you're coming at it from a position of love and compassion is what matters more than the idea of you needing to be an expert on all things gender and sexuality, because the fact of the matter is most of us who live in this world don't understand it either. Like we're constantly like surprised by things and constantly like judging ourselves. And so and questioning like like, oh, I never thought of it that way. Like we didn't have road map either, and we found our way. So just like, yeah, like she said, just ask questions, listen, and just be there. And I will say as a as a parent, one of the best pieces of advice I ever got from my friend was you're not going to 100% this. You're just not like, yeah, you're not going to be you're going to like because that's the thing is like I wanted to be the perfect parent, right? And that's just not how you learn to do it. You learn by checking in like Tybue was saying, like checking in saying, how are you doing? How is this? You know, and that's where you figure out what you're doing wrong. Yeah. And your kids, not an alien, you know, you've known your kids their whole life. So you might not understand this particular part of them, but it's just a part of the overall person they are. And you can still talk to them and like understand them. And yeah, get them. This question is from them. How do you figure out if you're interested in pursuing someone when you're kind of a slow burner, it takes you while the figure out if you like them like them? How do you figure out if there's potential or if you're just feeling friendship feelings? Oh, y'all I got no idea. I'm the fat guy all time. Yeah, I was going to say I was like, I had to check out from this question. Like I end like hot and heavy fast. Like this explosion burn. So who wants to take this one? I don't know what a slow burn is. Like there's no surprise. I secretly like my best friend. I think that a lot of times we have a heart. We as people especially tend to think of everything as like one big scary thing that has to be dealt with in one fell swoop. And I don't think you have to do that. I think that it's okay to take a while to figure it out. And it's okay to parse out your feelings. Like don't leave a person dangling if they're asking you about like how do you feel about me? Like be honest. Like it goes back to that thing about being honest yourself. Being honest with your feelings. Like I tend to be fast too. And I like it when things are quick. Because I like to do not to meet ambiguity. And I hate like questioning like, wait, she's sporting with me. She's not sporting with me. I know what's happening. But I think as long as you're talking about it and communicating like, hey, I'm not sure how I feel about you. But I think there might be something more here. And would you be willing to kind of explore that with me or how do you? And like, and just go step by step. Like you don't have to be like, are we going to be best friends or are we going to be a couple? You can be like, hey, can I go on one date with this person and see how it feels? Can I go on a second date with this person? Can I hold this person's hand? Or whatever, whatever things you want to be doing, you can do it step by step. You don't have to do it as everything all at once. And then the end of the day, if you're on the other side of that. And one of your friends is like, hey, I want to go on a date. I mean, regardless who they are, like, what's the worst thing that's going to happen if you go on a date and have a good time? And there's, I mean, to me, it's like, we should all be more understanding and lean a little more into that if we want to support our friends and whatever else. Like, there's, we're all figuring ourselves out like day by day. And I think that's cool. Like the adventurous. Why not? Yeah. And honestly, I think like the slow burn, like I wish I had more of that patience for that slow burn, we're such the microwave generation, where it's like, we want something now. And it has that opportunity to sort of develop. There's many people that I have dated where it's like, oh, no, we should have just been friends. Like, and sometimes like, you know, I, like, I don't well, in my world, sometimes in the gay world, sometimes we, you have that initial attraction where you just kind of want to explore each other's bodies like once or twice. And then that's it. Like, it doesn't mean that we need to like, continue to date forever. And I think there's a fluidity in friendships and relationships that can sort of be there where we don't necessarily have to define everything as this is what it is. Some more, more fluidity perhaps. Yeah. Yeah. Slow fluidity. A slow flow. Yeah. Ever to get to be able to tell the difference between, especially like in high school and college, where like I'd meet a woman and be like, oh, I'm into them. And now, now 34 year old Travis is like, no, you thought they were funny and you appreciated them as friends. Like, I couldn't tell the difference between like, I enjoy spending time with this person. And I think that they're incredibly interesting and cool versus a crush on them. Like, I just couldn't separate those two things until I was like 25. Like, I started dating Teresa and stopped being interested in other women. And I was like, oh, wait, these are great friends. Yeah. I think for me, what's interesting from the ACE perspective was sort of finding out what that means. Like, at first, you know, I was ACE and I talked to women and go to that road. And then I found actually kissing boys is pretty good as well. And then I was like, actually kissing everyone is really good. And I was like, am I panace? Is that a thing? And it is. So kissing is great. Kissing all people is great. I agree. I think that when I figured out that I was bisexual, it actually helped me understand what friendship was better because it was like, well, now if everyone, if everyone is a possibility, how do I know the difference? And I found that I treasure friendship in a different way than I used to that I find it equally important to a romantic relationship, just a different kind of relationship. And it helped me like, even my friends that I was like a little bit attracted to, I was like, but I don't want to be romantic with them. Like, I just like admire them and respect them. I'm like, they're kind of sexy. You know, my friends are cute. And like, I was, I've been able to to compartmentalize those two things a little better. Like, that line is clearer to me because it had to be because otherwise it was like, well, how do I? Yeah, literally everyone. So now it's like, oh no, but I can I treasure friendship so much. And it also makes it easier regarding like other questions about like, if you try and date your friend and it turns out you're just friends, it doesn't have to be disappointing because then it's like, oh, but you're so important to me in a different way. And I don't want you to think that this is a step back or you're less than or like, you're not good enough to be my boyfriend or girlfriend. It's like, you are wonderful. And I need you to be my friend because you're so wonderful. And also like, sometimes it's okay and fine to just have a crush on someone and not pursue it. Like, crushes can just be fun. And I've had definitely have had women that I've had crushes on that when I thought about it, I don't think that we probably would click as a as a couple, but it's kind of just fun to have that week or so. We're like, oh, I'm thinking about her and like, it's kind of cute. And then, you know, you can move on and get over that and then preserve your friendship instead of like thinking like, well, I have a crush. So now I must possess this person like. This question is from Paula. How do you prepare for that first dinner with the family of your significant other? Meditation, center yourself, a lot of Oprah. I don't know. I just love that really great universal reaction. I think we all just out of like, I don't know. I've actually never been introduced to a partner's parents before and I'm like dreading and happening. Like, yeah, you're not missing out on anything. Like, I don't know. It's, they're rare. I don't know. My experience, they've rarely been pleasant. Someone's mom or dad has always got some sort of cray. And I think also especially because I think like because we're LGBTQIA plus that, you know, there's though their parents are also possibly dealing with other issues. And so instead, there's that layered onto it as well. And so for me as well too, like, because I'm black and I'm dating like when I'm dating like a white guy or something, there's just a lot of layers and issues. And so I think the best thing that you can do is self care for yourself. Love yourself. Know that you are a date. You were trying to date your partner that you are dating your partner. Your partner loves you. You don't have to put on a show for anybody, be your honest and truthful self. And it's them. It's them not you. So you just do you, you do you bow, do you. And put on a little bit of charm, but don't like overdo it because they'll see through it. - I agree. - I definitely, I'm currently dating someone who's from sort of a conservative family. And I have like the tiniest bit of anxiety, but I also, I grew up in the South as a Jewish woman and like, even though I didn't know I was queer, I've been queer, I stay queer. So like, I've had that my whole life. So that's kind of the devil I know, you know? And so like, I don't feel that much fear going into a conservative family, but I can see how somebody who is not white or not cisgender would, or like is more visibly queer than I am, even though I have a kind of a shaved head, I feel like that probably is a lot, there's a lot more anxiety there that I wouldn't know what to do with. So like, yeah, I think that seems like self-care for sure. - Yeah, it seems to be a real, it's pointed red for me sometimes. So it seems like you have kind of an end there because something you just popped into my head, finding those connecting dots, 'cause like you said, there's a lot of university alities between us as human beings because we are. So you can just sort of find those sort of commonalities and 'cause they're also probably going through their crazy things in their head too. 'Cause parents are also, they're humans, going through crazy things as well. And so they're also trying to adjust of like trying to love their child and then this person, but they want what's best for them. So they're going through their own things as well. So if you can find those sort of commonalities, doing simple things, oh, polite kindness and decency will get you so far. Please, and thank you. Help out with the dishes. Show up with a little gift, like those little things. Like you can kill them with kindness, wind them over with kindness, you know? - Yeah, yeah. - And this is something that also you can really talk to your partner about and have a game plan. Have something in mind so that they can maybe run interference if needed or do more, a little more work on their part is really going to help everybody have a better time. - I mean, this is a thing. It is one of the wonderful things about having a partner, not to brag about the fact that I'm married to Teresa, but going into-- - It's brag-worthy. - Every social situation, like we talk about it in the car before we get out of the car of like, okay, if this starts to happen, I'm gonna say, oh, I forgot the dishes or whatever, and then we're gonna leave. Like, having that kind of coded discussion is one of the things that puts me at ease in social situations now, all the time, going to parties or whatever. - We had that conversation just recently about meeting my current partner's family is, I'm pretty like outspoken about feminism and intersectional feminism specifically, and like, I don't always, I'm not always the best at it, but I am always talking about it and trying to do my best. And he was a little worried that like, his brother and I might butt heads. And I was like, okay, how would you like me to handle it if he says something that is off-putting to me? Do you feel comfortable with me talking to him about it? Would you rather handle it yourself and me back off? Like, what feels right to you? Because if this is the, like, down the road, I'm happy to speak for myself and happy to speak up or stand up for something that I believe in. But in these situations, like, I've grown up around conservative people and I know that sometimes it's easier hearing it from somebody who you view as on your team than to just butt heads and it gets more done that way. So I didn't feel weird about him being like, I don't know how to deal with this, this might go poorly. And I was just like, you just tell me what makes you comfortable because I'm not gonna ignore it, but I do wanna know what the best way you think is, Dan, because you know I'm better than I do. So I think, yeah, I think talking about stuff beforehand is such a solid way to do it 'cause you're supposed to be a team. It's your teammate. - This question is from Cookie Cat, where I live most queer communities, most queer communities, at least the ones of people around my age, 20, are usually very centered around parties, alcohol and dancing. How can I get to know more queer people if I'm not really into partying hard as often? - Oh boy. I was actually on that Hannah Gadz be special, it's all on Netflix, she has a comment about, where did the quiet gays go? And I'm like, oh my god, it's so weird. - Dude, I'm still trying to find them. - Oh, I know where they go. You're jumping in there. 'Cause I was in this experience before, 'cause I was like, I'm tired of just going to the bars to meet people within my community and going out. Hopefully your town has a local center. Going to the local LGBTQIA center, it's people, you'll get being involved in the community, people who wanna do things, there's so many youth outreach programs. I volunteer right now in New York at LGBT, youth homeless shelter, we serve dinner on Sunday nights. LGBT, we make up 40% of the youth population, 40% of the youth homeless population. And so you start connecting with other people outside of the bars as well, that's what I would say. - Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing. I was gonna say volunteering seems to be a really good way to meet more casual, like quiet queers. And also, I think that even looking on meetup and stuff like that, there's a lot of, depending on where you are in the country, there are a lot of meetup groups that are specifically for a thing. I know that in LA, there was the cultured, femme society, and it was a way of like, okay, so here's people who are like me, and they're gonna be meeting at this event, a movie night or something as opposed to, we're all gonna go to this dance club bar. 'Cause I'm 36, I ain't got energy if that kind of stuff anymore. I spend my time in clubs already doing comedy. I don't wanna be hanging out in bars all the time, so. Yeah. I also find that I don't always feel comfortable in like dedicated queer spaces. I think I won't speak for like, other bisexual people, but I know that I sometimes don't feel super welcome because I'm like straight passing and I currently have an opposite sex partner, so it's like, it can be a little daunting 'cause it's sort of like, what are you doing here? But one place I do feel welcome is, for instance, LA, at the Moonlight Roller Way, they have rainbow nights on Wednesday night. So they go roller skating and it's super loud, it's not wild, it's like, everyone comes out and like, cute outfits with great hair and skates for a while. And they don't even serve alcohol, so it's like, you're not gonna have a bunch of drunk people. Exactly. That sounds divine. It's great. Yes, I would like to go please. I've only been once, it was fantastic. It's fun, there's some real good outfits. I will be sure to keep you from frowning as well as out there. Let me know when I'll take you on a Wednesday night to the rollerway. I'm in. They have the Church of Eight Wheels in San Francisco, which is something kind of similar. Oh my god. Roller skating. And it's actually an abandoned church, which is kind of cool. Yeah, I know, Church of Eight Wheels. I have to go to that. [LAUGHS] Well, we learned this roller skating. Like, so go roller skates. Roller skates for this. That's where we are. We're at the roller skating rings. Oh, and also, if there's not a community or a space, create it. Because there's probably people who are out there looking for it. And sometimes it's like, if you want it and it's not there, there's other people who are also just waiting for someone to start it. This question is from Ebony. How do you go about dating someone who is not out of the closet? You don't. [LAUGHS] I don't recommend it. It will mess up your self-esteem. Like, I mean, there's a level of compassion, and it's tough because we've all been there. But it ends up being something where you get pulled into the closet with them again, and it can be really tough. And I'd done it a couple of times in an ethical overdue again, because it was-- I end up being just-- it was so painful after a while. I think that's one of those things where you have to-- you're in charge of you. Yeah. And if it's something that you think that you can handle, because that person is like, I am in the closet, but I am working towards being comfortable, and I think this would help me. And like, you believe them and you trust that, and you want to try that. That is up to you. But I say, you're ready to pull your shoe. Yeah. I think it's-- It's hard to kind of-- sorry, go ahead. No, no, you go. You go, you're in it. You're in it. I always say it's-- I agree with you on that, because it can be-- you might think ahead of time, like, oh, I would like this person, and then it may feel good about myself. But there is over time that sense of them being ashamed of what you have together can really eat away at you. So I was just adding to her point about, like, yeah, be very aware of your feelings. And it kind of depends where they are, too, if they're in the space of, like, oh, I'm never going to come out to my parents. And that's definitely to me, like, a huge red flag of, like, this is probably not the best, obvious relationship for you. But it also, like, if you're in college or something, I can also understand I didn't come out to, like, I was in graduate school. So there's a little bit of leeway, depending on, like, how old you are, too. But I think once you start getting into, like, you're an adult, and you're out, and you have a job, and a life, like, you know, it's time to, again, be brave and have that courage. Because it's one of those things that, like-- and it's hard, because, like, when you're in that new relationship energy, your brain tells you, like, oh, no, it's OK. I love them, and it's going to be fine. And you're kind of, like, on drugs. You're on this love drug that does not have you thinking properly. It's almost like people who are, like, oh, I can fix them, or I can change them. No, like, that's-- it's a danger zone. If someone gives you a clear indication that they have no intention of changing, believe them. Yeah, for sure. Like, stay away from that. Yeah, but if someone's like-- Yeah, a general. Yeah. Yeah. But if someone is, like, I am trying this, and I'm just, like, I'm just working through it a little slowly, please be patient with me, like-- Yes. I think that that's a fair time to be like, OK. And if you can sense them, like, it's starting to hurt you at the first sign of it starting in Caugie pain, both. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard for them to compassion for yourself. Because it's hard enough for us to go through our own journey and have the bravery to come out and not to-- because it's almost-- they'll pull you back into that closet. You're like, I came out. I'm not going back there. Hey, yeah, it's not worth it. Yeah, that's true. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you should just stay away from me. [LAUGHTER] I think your point is valid. If someone is actively trying to get themselves out, then yeah, but yeah, just be very aware of how you feel about the entire time and check in with yourself constantly. Any relationship that starts with holding onto a secret is essentially turning on a time bomb that I had having been in many situations where that time bomb explodes. It's not a very healthy way, I think, to start a relationship when it's so corduary to your identity like that. That's all I was missing. I want to add one more thing on this too that I feel like a lot of times when you're dating someone who is working through an issue, whether it's being in the closet or something else, I just feel like for me in my experience, a lot of things that happen psychologically are that once they've worked through that issue, you kind of get pushed aside with that issue. So if you're dating someone who's deeply in the closet and then you help them come out of the closet, a lot of times once they're out, they're kind of dumb. Come with you, which is unfortunate. So that's again, be very careful of how you don't get hurt in this situation. This question is from Terran. When you take someone of the same gender on a date, should you pay for their meal like a man would on a hetero date? I think that's outdated, Terran, but I understand the question. Or should you split the check because F hetero-enormative dating traditions? I think you should be ready if you ask someone out to pay for dinner. Yes. If you are the person who asked them out, you should be ready to pay. And if they ask to split it, that's fine. If you don't, like if you want to go full tilt and you're like, I asked you out, this is the experience I wanted to provide for you, then be ready to pay. And that's who should pay for dinner. That's the exact advice that we gave on a different dating episode. We talked about unfurthed dates who should pay for dinner. And I mean, it seems that there's a lot of kind of anxiety that goes on over the money, especially if one person asks another person and that's the thing, just like Tybie said, if you ask, you should be prepared to take care of all the details of that experience. That's true. I was just having this conversation with my dad, actually, of friends too. Of like, I like to pay for dinner. But I think that that's a lot less surprising to a friend if you say, I would like to take you to dinner as opposed to just going to dinner with someone at the end. That's good, yeah. You should only like my treat. It's on me. And then they're like, what? Oh. If you just say, like, yeah, my treat. Let me take you to dinner. Something like that that makes it clear what's going on. Yeah. It comes back to the whole thing about honesty and openness. Like, instead of waiting until the check comes and glaring at each other, just like have a conversation about it. My answers might be way different in controversial. So I'm just going to throw it out here. I like, this is one of my favorite questions. I like, for me, it's like, I'm embarrassed. I'm just going to be honest here and you can edit this out. But I like, for me, it's like, what if it's a guy and he's older and he makes more money? I'm like, I think you should pay for the dinner here. Because he's older and he makes more money. Do you like to be a kept man? Is that what's happening? Oh, yes. Let me be the arm candy. I'm just waiting to be a trophy husband, second, the real husband, house husbands of New York. It also, there's other things too, is that what I also like that happens. It's sort of like, I kind of like it when, either if I do pay, if I pay, then it's sort, oh, here's what happens what I usually do. And this is like my trick. If I really enter them and I want there to be a second day, I'll say, maybe this is a manipulative, but this is how I roll. I'll be like, I'll get this one and you get the next one. You know, so it's like inferring that there's going to be another one. And that's also like, if they do that, then I know like, oh, there's got to be a second day or I'll get the movie because I kind of like that sort of, that's for me that I really know that I like the person when this is sort of shared economy sort of thing that's happening. I like that too. Yeah. Yeah. You know, this is the, okay, thank you, James for saying that. The whole thing because the thing about this question and I think in general, when you discuss any kind of dating and you talk about like traditionally or like normally or anything like that, I actually think that that is what creates a lot of tension. This idea of this is what the normal thing is or this is what's supposed to happen because without actually discussing it and without actually knowing yourself, what you want, like, then you're worried about perceived expectation versus actual expectation. And that can really mess with you. You know what I mean? As opposed to just saying, what's going to happen? What's the plan? So if we go out to eat, do you want me to play a movie? Like, that feels so forward, but it's so much more relaxing to just know what's going to happen. Yeah. I also think it's interesting if you are a person who is maybe less traditional. I'm doing air quotes, audience. And if you're dating someone who is more traditional because I, like, for instance, we have the conversation all the time where I'll go, you want to get this, don't you? And he's like, yeah. He likes to, like, likes to provide that because especially someone's like love language is service, providing a service. Sure. Then that may be something that is really important to them to get to do that. And it might like mess with your pride too if you're somebody who, like, I just started making a little more money. And like, I kind of am excited about taking someone to dinner for the first time ever. Like I've been, I was struggling for so long that it excites me to be like, I'm going to take us out. Yeah. And so if he's like, I want to pay, it's sort of like, well, I want to pay, damn it. But I know that it's more important to him than it is to me. So I will, I'll let him. And then like every once in a while, I'll go, I would like to get this. And he's like, okay, and he backs off. So like, I think one thing that helps me a lot, and this maybe not isn't helpful so much for the situation. If you're starting something, but as you get into something is using a one to 10 scale. And saying, like, how important is this to you on the scale from one to 10? And then someone says, like, it's an eight. And you're like, oh, it's only a six for me. So you do it. Or you can do it. Those are dying, yeah. Oh, it's best. And then there's no later on, like, this was really important to me. And I needed you to be at this event, or I needed you to let me do this. And you didn't. And it's like, why didn't know that it was that important to you? It eliminates that down the road problem and just addresses the problem right there. Which is brilliant. How can I just discover that scale? I mean, that's so helpful. Whoa. It's the first time you've heard of a one to 10 scale. Well, use in that sort of a scenario. Like, I've used it for silly things. Like, how could I look at this outfit on a scale of one to 10? But not like a real thing. Yeah, I think most of us don't think about blessing out statistics on our dating life to be fair. Which we should be surprised at like how often you run into like, I really want like, we have this meeting or this dinner scheduled with my best friend. And this thing popped up. Yes. And then like, you have this chance to go do this thing. And I'm like, it's, and it's like a nine important that we go to this dinner. I understand that this thing is important to you, but like, this is a big deal to me. And that's like, okay, well, then, then you win this time. Or if they're like, I love you. I know that you need me to meet this person, but like, I, this chance, this opportunity will not come around again. It's a 10. Then it's like, okay. One of the most ridiculous things I think that is kind of drilled into people's heads, both about dating but like relationships in general is like, if it's meant to be, they'll know. And one, that's really bad for consent. That idea of like, you'll just know when to kiss them. You'll just know when and no. But secondly, like, that's not actually how it works in real life because like, people don't like wear everything necessarily on their, on, like, on their sleeve that, you know, that much. And so that idea of like, no, you know what, actually rules is like, actually knowing by asking. Like, that's when it's really great. Because if anything, most people are probably the opposite. Most people actually are really guarded because they've had trauma and they've been hurt. So they kind of keep their cards closer to their chest. So while that does this, like, by asking me sort of questions, what I like is it's creating, it's getting vulnerable. It's seeing what's important and it's getting you to be honest. What's, what's important to you and your partner being able to understand that as well. So you can have that shared understanding. So we're going to do one more question, but Tybie's got to go. Yeah, I got to go. So Tybie's so much. Tybie's so much. Tybie's nice. Tybie, plug away. So before you go, plug, plug, plug. I don't have, we, we do a show. It's called Run, a Doctor Who fan cast. And also I developed content for an app called Yarn, which is why I'm in a conference room that's very echoey, where I am actually trying to get more LGBT plus stories into the app. So including the people here and the audience, please reach out to me because I want to get more varying voices, diverse voices, including disabled voices. That's something that we don't really have. So if you want to write and haven't gotten the chance and you're new to it or you just like want a new platform, you want to test something out. We have kind of an interesting mobile platform and I want new writers. So please reach out to me. You can tweet me @hellotiebierin. You can DM me. You can email me. I'm @hellotiebierin. It was so lovely meeting all of you. Thank you so much. Travis and Teresa, I love you very much. Love you too. Talk to you later. I'll drop box my audio. Bye. Bye. So one more question. Do I need to go? This is one of my favorite things about doing advice, both on any of my shows is reading people's usernames because most of the time people have like fun username and then like a name but there's both names are the same. So this question is from Queen Deaf. - And Queen Death asks, "How do I stop myself from vomiting emotional trauma as a way to preemptively let people decide whether I'm worth the trouble of loving?" - Whoa. - Okay. - I just wanna give a hug. - It's worth loving. - Yeah, that's the exact same way. - I'm gonna throw something on. I think, oh, okay, here you go. - No, go ahead, you got something, go for it. - Okay, I say this with all, I think the most important, here's my thing, I first of all, I think everyone should be in therapy. If you've not gone in therapy, you should. I think that's gonna help with self-love-loving thing. You're saying a lot of great things and I think a therapist would be able to help you unpack more of that and build up that sort of resiliency towards self-sophage and 'cause you are worth loving. And so what's helpful is that you realize that that's a pattern, and so now you can start to sort of work for developments for that. I personally don't even date people if they've not gone into therapy or done sort of something. I'm sort, maybe it doesn't have to be therapy. It's just like, especially for those of us in the community, we've experienced a lot of trauma and hurt. There's a very small fraction of us that have had those perfect parents and that perfect GSA experience that sometimes is on TV and it's really cute on the Disney Channel that they're doing it, but that's not everyone's experience. And so I think the big thing that everybody's already has already said is that you are worth loving. And Bernée Brown has a good, amazing book that I think you should definitely read. It's called Daring Greatly and she actually talks about this exact thing. Sometimes we can word vomit too much as a way of pushing people away where we think we're trying to be intimate with people but we're actually throwing out all of our stuff and that not everyone is worthy of all of your, you don't have to give everything away, right? As you're getting to know people, they can learn certain things about you. You don't have to share all of your hurtful, traumatic stories all at once 'cause not everyone is actually worthy and deserving of that right away. So, you know, you don't give process wine, I hate that statement 'cause pigs are really smart but you don't have to give everything away. - Well, and not only that, but also like, not only do you not need to do it, do not give it, but it also could be very psychologically harming to you because you could do that and feel that you'll push them away because of who you are when actually it is them not being able to accept who you are that have pushed them away. And it has nothing to do with anything about you but rather them, but if you are saying all this stuff and clearly, you know, if you're worried about not being worth loving, which of course you are, like that is a, it could be a vicious cycle for you of like, I knew it and it's like, no, it's not actually about you. - Well, it could also be a self-fulfilling prophecy where like you're coming from, again, I also wanna reiterate, "Queen Death, You Are Worthy of Loving." Even if you had nothing else that your name was Queen Death, like what's just you were loving. - Yeah, you're boss. - But the, yeah, if you like say like, okay, here's all the reasons why you won't wanna date me. Like that kind of reads the other person as like, why does this person not really want me to wanna date them? And like James was saying too about the whole idea just like accepting that you're worth it and we're all queer people. I feel like I've a generation are at least in some tiny way a little bit broken by the experience that we've had to do and we're all there and we're all with you and we've all got a little bit of trauma and it's okay. But I also think that front loading your trauma, like we said, is a method of pushing someone away and like keeping, it makes you live yourself in the cycle of no one loves me because no one loves me and you basically just keep building this up. There is something to be said about letting a partner in slowly because you're building trust with them and if you're just telling everybody everything that's hurting you in the very beginning, you're not ever giving them the ability to feel like they've earned your trust. And so I think that like you tell them the things that you think they are relevant to starting a relationship but then you can hold back on some stuff until it's really more relevant and really more like in the spirits of where your relationship has gone. Like there was definitely been moments with partners that I've been dating where in the beginning, we may not have talked about stuff but then like say a month in, like they might reveal this aspect of them or it might come up organically and I actually go, oh wow, I like this person feel safe enough with me to give me this information and or like let me understand this. Like they've let me into them a little bit more and I think if you just go like here's all the things don't hate me right in the very beginning, you're designing yourself the ability to trust someone and you're also denying that person the ability to earn that trust. - Yeah, I think it's hard to love ourselves sometimes and be honest, like I'm a 36 year old disabled, a sexual with multiple sclerosis. That's a hard thing to be honest with because you need a lot of help and you need to be honest with the people around you and you need to finally, you know, like as your body is dying, like be honest with the people around you and enable to surround yourself with people that want to help you 'cause then that's not just necessarily romantic. That's just good mental health advice. Like we need to be supported by the people that want to support us and that starts with us. We gotta be honest and we gotta love ourselves about who we are and that's the most important thing to me. - And I want to piggyback off that to quote RuPaul, if you don't love yourself, how the hell do I love anybody else? Right? - Hey. - And I think for me, I remember reading this question, the most key thing that stood out to me, it was not so much about the other person, it was about that self worth and it really does start with yourself. Something that I have found that has been helpful for tools for building self worth, I come from the Oprah School of Woo-Woo and things like affirmations, it sounds hokey but they're so helpful, like writing down certain affirmations that you wanna work on. I am beautiful, I am worthy, I am deserving. Looking into the mirror and sometimes there's mornings where I do not feel like I am looking so cute but I will be like, damn boy, you look good today. And like those things and looking at yourself straight in the eye, I remember when I had had my heart ripped out and I was feeling so unlovable, I would look at myself in the mirror and tell myself I love you. And it was really hard at first but I started and that was telling that I couldn't look at myself and say that I love you, so I had to do that work. And so just sort of that self, like just having my goal now is to have the most intense love affair with myself as possible starting there 'cause then it will eminate outside of there. Having those positive self-talk inside of your self in your head saying those positive things, stopping those negative talks inside of your head, stopping those, just loving yourself so fully and intensely. And then with someone who rejects you because you shared something personal with you with them. Again, Travis was saying, has nothing to do with you, everything to do with them, all right? Then we move on, it'll hurt a little bit but you'll have the resiliency and love for yourself that you're gonna be able to push forward. - And let me tell you, someone who loves himself very, very much, right, is terrific. Like, oh, I sometimes would have stared myself in the mirror for hours. - You're supposed to be working there. - Oh, that's how does it end you doing? Hand down your ringer. - That is something, look at it. - Yeah, I think that like a lot of times, I, someone who has a lot like being trans, for example, is a thing that I find, for example, when I try to date on dating apps, it can be a huge problem for me because it's right there on the app and it makes it seem like it's a bigger deal than it is. But when I meet people in real life and they get to know me, then they don't even think anything of it, 'cause it's just a part of who I am as a person. So I feel like if you're starting to date someone and you're getting to know them and you have this like emotional trauma or you have this history, if the very first thing you say to them when you first meet them, 'cause here's all of my mess, that's all they're gonna see you as. Whereas if they get to know you as the beautiful, worthy of love person that you are, Queen Deff, they're gonna get to know you and then like a month, like a certain point in, they're gonna go, I don't care about that, I love you, you know? So that's, could I definitely date a people who, I think when we were dating, they like gave me information about them that they thought was gonna push me away, but I'm like, that doesn't matter. Like I've been dating you for a month, like I don't care about that. I'm like, I'm not gonna throw away what we have together because of some dumb little detail. But like when we first started dating, they said it I might have been like, well I don't know about when I get involved in that or whatever, so that's an element as well. - I think this has been great. Thank you all for joining us. - Yes, thank you. - We're just gonna go around and everybody plug your stuff. Mikey will start with you 'cause on my screen, you're in the top left. - Nice. I would love it if you guys would check out my show and some of the other shows we have on our channel, youtube.com/filmjoy. Please subscribe. It's very much a show about self love and basically film therapy. It's the lessons we can learn from film and art and other things and just building a better us. I don't dunk on film 'cause it's dumb. - I love that. I'm so excited. I'm gonna listen to that. - Next on my screen is James. - Oh, he. It's been so great being here. You can listen to my podcast is why I co-host it with the lovely NKFHITS Clark. It's called Minority Corner. We talk about all things that are black queer and lady like from pop culture to news to things they never taught you about in history class. It's a really, really fun show. And you can also follow me on Instagram. I'm on the Insta, getting that social media game on, @JamesArthurM. And you can see all the many things I'm doing from Santa comedy to film stuff to marvel.com stuff as well. and finally last but not least Riley. - First of all Travis, I wanna point out that I think I know we have the same shade today. - Do it? (laughs) - Looks like it was a close. - I tried to do an accent nail along with like, so it's red with like black crackle and then I did an accent nail and they just all look exactly the same. - Mine just like a dark red. I have an accent nail 'cause this finger never stays polished. So that's my, that's my name. Yeah. So as Travis said earlier, I am the headwider for International Waters on the Max Fun Network. So listen to that. You won't hear me as much what you'll hear my delightful writing. I also am going to be one of the headliners at the Portland Queer Comedy Festival in the middle of July. So if you can be in Portland for that, I recommend checking out as going to be a variance. The same weekend as SDCC. So if you can't make it to San Diego and you wanna hang out with a bunch of queer comics, go to Portland and we'll be up there. It'll be fun. And then I just recorded last night part of a comedy special for Seed and Spark. I'm not sure yet when it will be premiering but that's a thing that's gonna be on the horizon. So keep an eye out for that. And you can find me on Twitter @RallyJSelverman. - Well, excellent. Thank you for sharing your experiences and your advice. It's been wonderful having you. - Yes, thank you so much. - Thank you. - Thank you. - Thank you. - Thank you. Bye. - Bye. - Bye. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)