Dating an Avoidant

Hey everyone, welcome back to Jillian on Love. Today I'm going to talk about jealousy, when it's like a you problem, a me problem, or when it's actually something that's coming from your partner or something that is not working in your dynamic with someone. I'm going to talk about a hard decision of possibly walking away from someone who does not approach conflict in a way that is healthy or does not have the same values as you. And I'm also going to talk about what happens when we go into such a shame spiral, when we break up with someone and how do we, how do we move on without hating ourselves when we've made a mistake? Here I go. Hi Jillian, my name is Jackie. I have sent you an email in regards to this issue that I've had for the majority of my adult life, where I'm incredibly insecure when it comes to other women. In my previous relationship of 17 years, I felt the same way where I was just insecure and constantly jealous. In my current relationship, it's exactly the same. There are issues with the relationship where it's not, there's no communication and there's no connection. So I'm not sure if that adds to the insecurity feelings. Um, I would really appreciate some help with this and digging deeper to find out where the issue lies and if there's any way out of this trap or this prison that I'm in where I can't relax and enjoy any relationship. Are you sure that it's just a you problem? Look, jealousy is one of those funny things because it's actually a pretty, uh, common and normal human emotion. I mean, you're in a relationship with someone. I mean, if you were to never have jealousy, I think that would be kind of strange. It's, it's a, it's an emotion of passion. And when we feel in love and passionate about someone, even if we're very secure and self-assured, there can still be moments and circumstances where, jealousy is triggered. And that doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you or with, uh, your self-worth. Certainly there are people who are so incredibly jealous because of something that happened in a past relationship that they haven't really dealt with and processed. And then they're bringing that insecurity into their next relationship. There are people who are incredibly jealous of themselves, uh, without any real provocation because they feel terrible about themselves. They, they look in the mirror and they cannot stand what they see. And like I said, then there's also the kind of jealousy where you're in a relationship with someone and they don't do anything to reassure you or to make you feel secure. And so if you have a told me, I am in a relationship with this amazing man. And you know, my relationship of 17 years, he was an amazing person. They're not doing anything to, to make me jealous. They're not, they're not doing anything wrong. You know, our communication is good. They reassure me. And yet I still can't get over, um, comparing myself to other women and feeling jealous. If you had said that, then we would have a different conversation. But you're actually telling me that you didn't tell me that your 17 year relationship, I don't know what happened, but it ended. And you are saying that, that your current relationship, there's not a lot of communication. There's not a lot, a lot of stuff going on to make you feel secure. So what if this isn't really only a you problem, but a relationship problem, something is going on where your ex and now your current partner has some control and you feel very out of control. It is perfectly normal to want reassurance. And it is also not only common, but expected if you don't feel like a priority and important to the person you are in a relationship with, then any woman that comes into their life in any way is going to maybe feel like a threat. If you're never told, um, that you are desired, that you're beautiful, that you're handsome, whatever it is, if you're not praised on a regular basis, which is what we have to do with our partners, praise each other. We have to be able to hear that. If you're not told, um, how amazing they think you are, then of course you're going to feel jealous. This is something that we don't talk nearly enough about. Sometimes in a relationship, there is what I would refer to as an unconscious contract. Your dynamic is, again, this is all unconscious, where your dynamic is governed by one person having sort of a lot of control in the relationship. And then the other person feeling like they are consisting, consistently longing for more from the other person. We see this a lot in sort of situationships. And we see this, I see this all the time in relationships. And so I wonder, if there is a pattern here where you feel most drawn to men who you have to like long for. And what I mean by long for is like, you have to long for their presence. You have to, you, you, you have to consistently long for their reassurance. You have to long for their, um, emotional availability, not because you are just someone who's constantly longing, but because they're not giving it. Those are the men who you feel most drawn to physically. And then his pattern is having some sort of control. And then that's what he actually is attracted to is being in a relationship with a woman who he can, um, manipulate or control in some way. Again, this is happening all, all the time. And the only way to break the pattern is to look at the dynamic as objectively as you can and really ask people like me, but ask some trusted counsel. Like, is what's happening in my relationship? Here's, here's what's happening in my relationship. Here's how I've attempted to communicate. Here's how I've attempted to meet needs and to get my needs met. Here's also my pattern. I tend to go for these men who are all similar in this one way, which is that they don't actually show up. They don't show up for me fully. And then I end up feeling jealous. It's the dynamic. It's the relational pattern that you're in. And then you want to ask someone, is this, because sometimes we have to do this. We have to say, is this normal behavior? Is my wanting this sort of reassurance because I'm deeply insecure and I've got some stuff that I need to work out inside of me? Or is there something going on here? And I think that maybe, and not just you, but a lot of, you know, a lot of you who are, who are listening to this or watching this right now are either in a circumstance like this or have been in something like this where it's hard to delineate between, is this a me problem, a them problem, or is this like a dynamic that I keep finding myself in? I keep choosing these types of partners and then I get jealous. And then I think this is something that I have to deal with in myself when really the jealousy is not so much the issue. The jealousy is the, is the result, the product, the byproduct of being in a relationship where you're not, where your needs are not being met and a byproduct of potentially you longing or being most attracted to those who can't actually show up for you. So it's almost like a push pull dynamic, a little bit of a chasing dynamic. And this is happening all the time between two people on an unconscious level. The way to break the pattern is to always, it's always through artful self-assertion and self-expression. And what I mean by artful is that you don't just then get loud and you don't protest and you don't scream and you don't get nasty. You instead say, hey, you know, I don't feel as secure in this relationship as I want to feel in a relationship. relationship, that is because I need, this is what I need that I'm not getting. And I need to know if you can get this to me. I need to know what is going on in your head so we can have a conversation about this. But I'm feeling a lot of jealousy. And I know that that's not just me. I know it's because I don't feel safe in this relationship. And I want to feel safe in this relationship. And this is what I need in order to feel safe in this relationship. And by the way, what do you need from me? How can I contribute to this relationship so that you feel like you're getting your needs met? These are the conversations that we need to have. It doesn't work to be in a relationship with someone who won't have these conversations or won't reassure. It doesn't. We all have different communication styles. I actually think that it's okay to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't have these conversations or won't reassure. It's okay for your partner to say, look, I need a day. I just need a day to process what you've said to me. Some people, some of us are slower processors. Some of us are a little bit more anxious and we're like, we want to process now because the idea of waiting 24 hours to talk about something feels unbearable. But as long as your partner is saying, hey, this is just how I process. Just give me a day. And they're not shutting down. They're not withdrawing. They're asking, they're asking, you know, for some grace. They're asking for some breathing room so that they can process in the way that their brain knows how to process. Then we have to give that grace. When it comes to jealousy, there is no, it's not so black and white. It's not like, oh, you're jealous and you're insecure or you're jealous and it must be their fault. It's nuanced. And oftentimes at the core is, you know, either, we haven't dealt with something, but more times than not, it's, I'm not feeling as safe inside of a relationship as I need to feel. And, and then we have to look at the dynamic. So my sort of long answer to this question, because it's in a very, very important one is, are you sure it's you? It's time to, to time to speak up and yes, take responsibility for the fact that maybe you are very drawn to people who can't give you what you need, but, that unspoken, that non-verbal unconscious contract that may be between you and this person and was between you and your ex of 17 years, it's time to break the contract. And the only way is by breaking your silence and having a conversation about it and see if that can turn things around. But it's interesting because this question, the way that this question was presented was you have so much, you have so much shame and you feel like there's something deeply wrong with you. And it's not always the case. Sometimes it's just a pattern that we're in and we don't realize that we're in it. And so I do hope that this offers some valuable insight and, and helps. This episode is sponsored by Alloy. 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Join the 95% of head to myalloy.com and use the code on love and tell them all about your symptoms and you'll get a fully customized treatment plan and unlimited messaging with your doctor plus you'll get $20 off your first order today head to myalloy.com and use code on love to get $20 off your first order hi jillian um i've come across your youtube channel recently as i'm um currently going through a breakup it's still pretty fresh um just to give you some context or some background me and my ex we had been together for about a year and a half and we moved in together i want to say a few months two three months of us knowing each other and dating which looking back now i know that was very fast and that's the fastest i've ever moved in a relationship but i wanted to take a chance and a risk on love and unfortunately a few weeks ago we came to the mutual decision to end our relationship and it really just came down to that we weren't um meeting each other's needs and we just weren't aligned in some of the important ways that we wouldn't want a relationship to be that makes sense um and even though i know it was the right decision um i've just been struggling to move forward and i just keep replaying in my head searching for what i did wrong and i've always been a bit of a perfectionist and i find myself taking on a lot of the responsibility for why things don't work out in my life whether it's um friendships just family members just stuff within my life um and it's just what's making it harder is how the relationship ended as well um during our final conversations as you know my partner or my ex is moving out um some things were said um by him that were very hurtful to me and it just left me questioning myself ever since we had that conversation and even though i can look back on the good times and i know that i'm not the only one who's been hurt and i know that i'm not the only one who's been hurt and i know that i'm not the only one who's been hurt and i know that i'm not the only one who's been hurt and i know that i showed up with love and good intentions and i really did try my best with what i had in this relationship it's just those last conversations and those last comments that he left me with are carrying more weight than i thought they would um and sometimes sometimes i just wonder if what i'm grieving isn't just the relationship but the way that it ended and the story that i've started to tell myself because of that final conversation so i just wanted to ask you how do i stop replaying this breakup over and over again in my mind and how do i separate genuine you know self-reflection from self-blame and yeah just how do i stop letting you know the the worst moments in this relationship or even like our last conversation to define how i see myself okay so the first thing that i want to say is take a deep breath in and a deep breath out because you're so in your head and i've got nothing but empathy and compassion for that like i wish that i could just like give you a hug i wish i could give everyone who's going through a breakup and just feels like so caught up in like here in your head and in rumination a hug um your mind is a battlefield right now and it is trying to keep you safe so don't hate it but recognize it's not your friend right now it is only doing what it knows what to do which is to um you survive but it's not giving you good advice and since you are someone who which i which i think is very common for a lot of people who are listening to this right now and watching this right now since you're someone who tends to be incredibly conscientious and as a result you then take the blame for a lot of things um i just really want you to to give yourself a responsibility for our lives our lives but because you tend to kind of go into self-blame um you know your perfectionism all that like that you have uh an impressive amount of uh self-awareness about like because you know that about yourself then you can also know that um when you when that part of your thinking that perfectionistic i've got to fix everything everything's always my fault i have to carry the burden of everyone you have to carry the burden of everyone you have to have an awareness of that so when that is sort of like kicked up into high gear that's when you have to say that's when like the wiser part of you the part of you that is seeing yourself spiral that's the part of you that literally has to say okay you're like you're doing that old thing again you're spiraling go go for a walk take a breath call a friend go work out you are not going to solve everything yes you moved in too quickly but you wanted to take a chance on love and you know i commend you for that and now you learned the lesson right like we all kind of there's not a single person who exists who hasn't like made a mistake where they just wanted to quote unquote follow their heart and then afterwards they were like damn that was not that was not the best decision i ever made but you know c'est la vie as they say it's life and so you learn the lesson you'll never do that again because we don't um i mean on the one hand you get the probably the best education living with someone and you know really quick who someone is when you live with them on the other hand, breaking up is definitely hard enough. Breaking up and then having to separate your belongings is a whole other ballgame that adds to everything and makes it hard. His harsh words at the end, and I wasn't there and I don't know what happened, but many people will say harsh things and make it seem like everything is your fault at the end of a relationship because it helps them detach from you emotionally when they can turn you into the villain of their story. And as long as you are the villain of their story, then they can walk away feeling validated and justified in their decision. And And And And And that helps them cope with the pain and the hurt and lingers beneath the surface of losing you and losing the relationship. And so once you understand that, that the hurtful words are coming from someone, it's his defense mechanism. And you don't have to take that on. In fact, you really shouldn't. I mean, yes, a relationship doesn't work. We have to be able to look in the mirror and say, how, you know, like, how did I maybe like, what were some of the things, patterns, behaviors, whatever, um, unconscious moments that I had that, that didn't help this. But, you know, maybe, maybe it just wasn't the right dude for you and you weren't right for him, but there was no way that, um, you would have known because you moved so quickly because you made, you made very big decisions about playing house with each other with someone who you barely knew, but felt all these intense, intense emotions for. Give yourself some grace, let yourself off the hook. Try not to let his words, uh, be so, so resonant in your heart and in your mind and in your psyche and realize like, again, that people He had to turn you into a villain in order for him to feel justified and to feel better. And again, a lot of people do that. So they don't feel the extreme pain and shame that lingers underneath for not making a relationship work. This episode is sponsored by Mill. Me and my sister, we've been using the Mill food recycler for a few months now. And honestly, that thing has surprised me like more than I could ever imagine. I thought I would like, would be doing something good for the planet and it is, but what I did not see coming was how much it changed like the everyday stuff and like the smell of the trash, the guilt of throwing food away, like all of it. The moment I realized that I could take what used to go straight into the trash and actually turn it into something like my garden actually loves, then I knew it was for me. My Mill food recycler essentially turned kitchen scraps into free food. I was like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. It sounds so simple, but it genuinely changed how I think about food waste. Mill is the odorless, effortless, fully automated food recycler. Potato peels, avocado pits, chicken bones, even dairy. Mill takes almost anything. While you sleep, Mill transforms your food scraps into nutrient rich, shelf stable grounds. No mess, no smells, no fruit flies. You can use the compost or milk and even pick them up and get them to a small farm for you. Try Mill risk-free for 90 days and get $75 off at mill.com slash Jillian. That's $75 at mill.com slash Jillian. So what I would do, since you mentioned the word story, what I would start to tell yourself is I did the best that I could. Here's the, here's all the lessons I learned. Like you, you wanted some suggestions of what you can journal, journal everything you learned from this. What did you learn about, what did you learn about yourself? What did you learn about life? What did you learn about communication? What did you learn about what it is that you need in a partner and what it is that you don't want in a partner? Write down everything you learned because that's really the best thing that you can do. And, um, and then give yourself a break. I just, I really, I like pray for, I pray for that for you. Just give yourself some grace, get out of your head. And just say, and use that, that conscientious nature of yours and channel it into, I'm going to learn these, I'm going to learn the lesson and I'm going to keep moving forward with my life. Because most people, they don't want to look at the lessons. They don't want to learn the lessons, but you're different. So make sure that that happens and, um, and onward and onward. I hope this helps. So my question is, about my relationship of, uh, about eight or nine months, I've been dating, um, a man for eight or nine months and in a committed relationship with him since December. Um, and things were, things have been going really wonderfully. Um, he is divorced and has a seven-year-old son, um, who I have not met yet. And, um, we were, we were on a trip together at the end of March in New York. And, um, he, he told me in a taxi ride home from a bar that he never wants to get married again. Um, which was a little bit of a shock and not the right place, time or place to talk about something like that. Um, I already knew that he didn't want to have, doesn't want to have another child, which we had a really long conversation about early on in our relationship. Um, and I felt that I'm okay with just being a step-mom potentially, but there was no mention ever of not wanting to get married again. Um, and we had a huge fight that night and, you know, drinking was involved, which made things more emotional. Um, and we, he has a, his, his father was an alcoholic. And so I think has, um, um, is triggered by things like that. But ever since the fight at the end of March, he's just been, um, I'd say not present in the relationship. Um, for the week after the relationship, he barely talked to me. I finally had to like, ask him to talk and say, I was feeling really disconnected and just to get any clarity. And he said that we needed to have a longer discussion about this marriage thing. Um, and he doesn't think that I would be okay with that. And yet it's been about two months since the fight and he brings up the fight all the time. Every time we see each other, but won't actually talk about it. And I've tried to talk about it in a really, um, constructive and gentle way met multiple times and he just won't. And I'm feeling really stuck and not sure how to proceed. You know, I, I don't say this often, but I'm thinking that maybe you should break up with this guy. Um, look, when you're with someone for seven, eight, nine months, that is enough time to form a very, very strong connection and attachment to someone. And at the same time, it's just eight or nine months of your life. And it's just eight or nine months of knowing someone. And the first year to year and a half of a relationship with someone is where we learn a lot about them and a lot about how we are with them. I don't like that. Okay. So you had this huge fight, which I'm going to get to in a second. I don't like that. He almost didn't talk to you for two weeks. I don't like that at all. I consider that to be completely unacceptable. Um, I'm sure like you said, alcohol involved, it got ugly, all of that. But I don't like that at all. I don't like that. But I just don't like the, I'm just not going to talk for two weeks. I just don't like that. I also don't like that. He's bringing it up every single time, but then refuses to talk about it. I don't like any of it. This episode is sponsored by Zenni Optical. Zenni is an online eyewear shop, prescription glasses, sunglasses, blue light lenses, starting, listen to this, under $30. You go to zenni.com, you pick a frame, you upload your prescription and they ship it to your door. There's no appointment. 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That's Z-E-N-N-I 15. dot com slash podcast promo code podcast 15. So one of the things that we learn about someone is their conflict style. And sometimes we will be in a relationship with someone where their conflict style differs from ours. And let me tell you, that is hard. It's not insurmountable as long as you're in a relationship with someone who is in a conflict style. And I think that's is both people are like, hey, everything we have is great. I care about you. I can see a vision with you. But this is this one thing that we can't seem to get over. Let's go to couples therapy. Let's work on this. And like, let's get a common ground. But it's hard. Like if you can, if you meet someone and you're, and you're dating them and you're like, you know, a relationship with them and you guys deal with conflict similarly and kind of like, and just, well, whatever it meshes, marry them. Let me tell you, just marry them because that is like 75, 75% of the battle. I don't, again, I don't want to discourage any of you. If everything is great, but your conflict styles are different, then what you have on your hands is potentially a brilliant opportunity for the two of you to learn and to grow and to mature and to make a stronger bond. So, but it's not at all. I also, you know, thank God you had the conversations about kids. I just, I just want to ask you because you sound young and, or at least young enough to be, to be like of within child bearing years. Are you sure that you are okay just being a step-mom? The thing is, I just want to make sure that you are sincerely okay just being a step-mom and not having your own kids. If that is the case, great. You talked about it. But you want to get married. You'll be a step-mom, but you want to get married. Did the two of you, like, why didn't the two of you have that conversation early on? Not here to shame you here to just use this as a really brilliant example of the fact that like, these are the hard conversations we have to have early on before we get attached. Like if we know we want marriage and we're dating someone who's divorced with a kid, we got to be say like, Hey, are you willing to do this a second time? Around because I really want to get married. Clearly he is, doesn't want to clearly he's having, um, a lot of internal conflict because he cares about you, but also is like, doesn't know if he can give you what you really need and what you really want. You can maybe overcome conflict changes, but when someone is shutting down like that and ices you out for two weeks, I think that's more than enough. More than just a conflict difference. I think that's a behavioral issue that is going to keep coming up and you are getting now nine, you know, eight, nine months into your relationship, you're, you're seeing some hard truths. And this is, this is where we meet probably one of the most significant and hardest and harshest forks in the road, which is my God, nine months enough to like fall in love with someone. But also like when we discover things that might be like real deal breakers when it comes to saying, I do, and I just don't want you to push marriage or even push a long-term relationship with someone who treated you like that after the fight and is continuing to just bring it up and, and not talk about it with you. He's bringing it up because it's unresolved in him. And because he's afraid that this is going to be the thing that is going to tear the two of you apart. And he's afraid to let you go. And he's also afraid to stay with you because of it. And you've got to be brave and you've got to be strong because if you want marriage and he doesn't, this is a value difference. This is how you want to live your life difference. And those are not things that are surmountable. These are, these are realities that come to light within, you know, the first year of a relationship we're hoping, but, but we can, we want them to come to light within the first month because we want to have these important conversations, but nonetheless, the conflict stuff, they, they come to light. And that's when you have to make a really difficult decision. Um, you want marriage. He doesn't, how important is it to you? And can you, you know, can you imagine yourself in five years from now, still not being married or maybe the two of you breaking up and not being married? Like, can you honestly say that you would be happy? This is like, this is a real choose yourself moment. This is a real point where you have to be very loyal to yourself and you have to be brave and just say, look, you know, I know this is really uncomfortable and maybe we can't move through this, but, uh, talking about things is really important to me. And we got to be able to talk about it and maybe we are going to talk about it and decide to separate. And that's really scary. And I don't want that. I know you don't want that, but we have to be, we have to be mature and we have to do what's right. And we have to have a conversation. And so I want you to take the lead on that. I want you to take the lead. It doesn't mean that you stop being nice or sweet, but it means you can be kind and you can be strong at the same time. And that's, and that's what I believe based on what you have shared, um, is what life is sort of beckoning you to do right now. And I hope this helps. Thanks everyone for being here. If you have your questions, please reach out to hello at Jillian on love.com. We go through all of them. We try to choose the ones that are going to be the most resonant to as many people as possible. And, um, if you just have a question or just even a request for an episode, please feel free to reach out to me. Please do not hesitate again, reach out. Hello at Jillian on love.com. If you're watching this on YouTube, please make sure that you hit, hit subscribe because it's actually what keeps me going and keeps the channel going and what keeps the podcast going. And, um, yeah, if there's someone in your life who needs to hear one or all of the messages that I shared today, please do not hesitate to share this episode with them because you just never know whose life you could be changing or whose relationship you could be saving, um, just by clicking share. So thanks for being here. And until next time, Jillian on love is a Q code production executive produced by David Henning and Steve Wilson produced and edited by Travis Howe music by Will Tendi.