- You are the first person I have had in this chair that has also called off an engagement. - It was just two people realizing that we were not the right fit for forever. I'm like getting emotional for so many years now. - I started blogging when I was 19 years old. - I was as hard-headed and big-willed as you see me today. Like, my mom always says that the easiest part about raising me was my birth. - But then I realized that if I could sell millions of dollars of other people's products, why am I not doing it towards something I own? - So I started, we were what, but people said our designs came too close to someone else's and I did not handle those right. It's something that I was pretty scared to talk about, honestly, but I've grown and I've changed and I am absolutely accountable. Is there anything that you still want people to know? - Well, not being stuck to one version of success is also really important, just because you want something so badly, you don't want it to be the wrong thing. When you think about this new world that we're all entering with creators, what would you advise people? Oh my gosh. - Hi, angels. Did you know that subscribing to our channel is free? It doesn't cost you anything and it is the simplest way for you to support Hotsmart Rich and help us grow so that we can bring you more of the conversations you love. Just hit the subscribe button below and thank you. (upbeat music) In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it. (upbeat music) Danielle Burns, you know. (laughing) Could I tell you something? I used to hate when people wouldn't clap with me, so now I know this is going to be my favorite episode. It's like, our dynamic is very funny already. Production, please keep this in because we're going to actually start this way, but I have to say, - For raw. - Danielle Burns, do you know how you're ready to get Hotsmart rich? - Hell yeah. (laughing) - I was so looking forward to this conversation 'cause I know so much about you, both online and also DM tax. We've like potentially maybe even started businesses together. You're the founder of We War What and you built your career very publicly through massive success and major controversy. So what do you think that people will learn if they listen to this episode in full? - Well, depending on what we talk about, which I have an idea, they're gonna learn about me, my personal journey, my career journey, which have overlapped over the years, right? I've grown up in front of the camera, I've grown and I've changed. I've made a lot of mistakes along the way. I'm absolutely able to be accountable and acknowledge those and I can't wait to. And I've created this larger than life brand that still has a ways to go to be what I know it can be, but it's been a really fun, exciting journey. There's a lot to talk about. - So we're gonna start on the complete opposite side of business, because you are the first person I have had in this chair that has also called off an engagement, we are going there. - We are just going there. - I knew it would come up and we're going there first. - Well, I think it's hard to relate when you haven't gone through a proposal and planned a wedding and dreamt of a life with someone. And I actually think it brought me a lot closer to my community when I remember making that first video acknowledging that like that was going to change in my life because it was at the time I was starting to deal with, okay, now there's a public person following along on this but it was nowhere near your magnitude and how big of a moment that was for you. How do you feel about everything now? - I feel great about everything. I know that I made the right decision for me and for my life and that just because you get engaged to someone, if you realize that that's not right, it doesn't have to be forever. You're not tied to it. And I think there's a big fear and I myself was so fearful or I'm calling off my engagement, not just because of what it meant personally, right? When you break off an engagement, you're not just mourning the person, you're mourning the life that you were going to have with that person and that's a lot to go through and now go through it again publicly. So it was a lot but I let my followers in on all my relationships for the past 15 years. I've shared a lot with them and so they felt like they were part of that journey in ways that were good and also really bad. Was there a moment that you knew it wasn't the right relationship for you or it was like a series of moments that just look at feeling? - The internet likes to have like one answer for everything, right? They want to know like why did it happen or who did it and what's the reason? And they want like one blanket, clean answer, which is how rumors get created and circulate the internet. There wasn't just like one reason that's so outrageous and something dramatic, like it just wasn't. It was just two people realizing that we were not the right fit for forever. It just was really that like non-dramatic. It really wasn't. It was really hard for sure and we had many conversations over a long period of time but it was something that we both felt like was the right decision. - I've never really talked about my broken engagement honestly on the show and I feel like it's because when you're with someone who's gone through it, they can relate in a way that maybe other people can't. So maybe this is why I'm sharing it now. But for me, I kind of always knew my ex fiance wasn't the one like that's why I didn't intertwine many things, like financially we weren't intertwined. Like of course we lived together but leaving wasn't hard in the way of like we share this car. We have this house or we can all of these things because I kind of knew in my gut from the beginning of getting engaged that like there was something off. - So why did you stay so long? - I think it was because I was either of my last year being 20s or but the very beginning of my 30s. When it actually ended up getting called off and I think that's because I thought that's what you did. And like all of my friends were getting engaged or married and I just felt like this is what you are supposed to do and I had never been in a relationship that felt right to know what to compare it against. I guess what I'm asking for you was like how intertwined was it to have to get out or was it easy just to be like we can separate? - Yeah, I think in the sense that you're talking about like financially and owning things together and we didn't have that. So it was easier in that sense to like separate our lives. It was more of like an emotional like this is my best friend for the past however many years and you get so close to someone's family and that stuff was really hard for us. But you know when you know it's the right decision and the fear of starting over kind of goes away. I mean it never really goes away. Like starting over is really scary and I was very scared to start over again at the age of 33. Like I was ready for marriage and kids and I wanted that so badly. I still want that so badly. But just because you want something so badly you don't want it to be the wrong thing and you don't want it I didn't want it bad enough that I wanted to make the wrong decision. And so it was something that felt really brave to do but at the same time I was like okay I'm not starting over from nothing. I'm starting over with so much more now. I know what I want. I know what I don't want. I know what I'm not willing to compromise on. And I actually felt like I gained more by choosing to leave that relationship. Out of everything I got stopped on the street for it is this. It is women that are in a relationship that they are not a hundred percent sure on and they're like questioning to me like how did you know? How do you start over? What do you do? So if you're even questioning it that should be enough. Like it should not be that big of a question. I firmly believe. And when you decided to start over like what is the first step to get back to a place that's like just able to be Danielle? Starting over and breaking off my engagement came at a time where I was also buying back my company. I was also moving into a new apartment. And so there were so many changes happening at once that I was almost so busy and so distracted that I didn't even have time to really like understand what was going on which was good and bad at the same time because I do believe like you need the proper time to agree even more and get over a situation. But I also was so busy and I felt this like air of like freshness and newness moving into my new home that I had just spent the past year renovating. Even though I had spent that year renovating that home for us and for what would be our future family and the guest room that was supposed to be a baby room and all these things that like it sucked. But at the same time I was so grateful for these new things I was getting to experience that it was like a lot of change at once but in a good way. Like it all led to this like new beginning. Do you feel like it brought you closer to the We Were What community? Or did it feel like there was this separation between you for a period of time? My breakups in the past, I did feel like brought me a lot closer in my community. This one hit differently. There was a lot of rumors that circulated the internet that really upset me. And I felt like I had like kind of done it to myself. Like I let people in so far. I opened the door and when they walked too far into it I got upset about it. And so I decided from that moment on that I actually don't want people to really know that much about my personal life. I want to create a healthier boundary between what I show publicly and what I have privately. And I think that my life since then has just had so much more meaning to it that like my private moments are just mine. And I love talking about it still. And like there's so much I wish I could just still share it. It's actually something I have to teach myself. Like how to have that discipline and how to sit back. Like it does not come naturally. I want to share everything. I feel like it's discipline and it's teaching me a lot along the way and I'm still learning. And I don't know if I'll forever be so quiet. I have no clue. Like I'm not gonna always stick to one thing but it's just been a really healthy like new dynamics to have in my life. Do you feel like having that community has been helpful navigating things like this or has it at times made you make different decisions that you probably wouldn't have made? Both for sure. At times it's been super helpful. I feel connected.
And I feel supported really like a lot of support especially through like sharing about my egg freezing and and and sharing about breakups and Engagement I was so excited to share my like bridal era with everybody and the support I felt around that was so beautiful And then at the same time it's there's been a lot of you know There's a lot of chatter a lot of opinions that get created and sometimes that can affect your decision-making And I cannot sit here today and say that the outside noise never affected my decision-making like what I have left sooner What I have you know done XYZ like if I didn't have the public and all the opinions and the outside noise like I don't know. I'm sure the answer would be that I would do something differently It's so interesting because I think that like as we're told Create content build a platform do these things and you see these people that have so many opportunities open No one is brave enough to talk about the things that we're saying now where there is trade-offs There is the things that like you see how would you describe what you just went through and how differently It's made you in every single capacity of your life just treat decisions differently I've just changed the way I think and react to things and I think my reaction has been like one of the most important Changes in my life I used to be super reactive and defensive and always wanting to provide context and explain things and over explain myself and like I Now take a step back. I sit in my thoughts. I'm a lot more silent for a while until I really feel like I know what I want to say and if I even want to say something and I have like group chats with my friends where sometimes I'll be like Here's everything I want to say right now and here's what's going on And I really want to post this. What do you guys think and then I get it out somehow because it feels therapeutic to me and then I decide like Okay, does this need to be shared with three million people right now like let's think about this Let's figure out how to approach the situation even with decision-making around you know business decisions and Things in my personal life like I take a little bit more time to make my decisions now Which I just not something that comes naturally at all take me to what you would do You see something online that really upsets you. Okay. What do you do? I'm Very you know strong now when it comes to that like I can take on a lot of heat and not let it affect me on a day-to-day basis Which has taken a lot of practice and I also really try and just not pay attention to it So inevitably if I see something that affects me or that makes me upset I just talk to somebody about it family friends my life coach a significant other whoever it may be and Someone maybe who can relate to it as well Like I think that that's really important like it's okay to talk to family and friends about things But like talking to another creator talking to Melissa one of my best friends who was also you know We've all been through so much in this industry that it's it's nice to have other people You can lean on who have been through it also and who understand like kind of what you would be feeling Is there anything that you feel like you still want people to know that you haven't said about how you feel about things Or do you feel like you've said what you need to say and now like you're just moving on and you don't want to talk about it again a little bit of both I think surrounding the engagement there was a lot of rumors that it ended because of prenup it did not and I am so proud that we had a prenup. It was one of the healthiest conversations. We ever had he understood We had the conversation even before we got engaged which I think was necessary and important and is something I would Suggest to other women people think that if you're getting a prenup you're like you know your relationship's going to fail and you like think It's going to and that is so not true that I just wish more women would feel Power in in in what that means like protecting your assets and protecting what's yours and we had a very healthy great Conversation about it and it was not the reason for our ending of our engagement And I just like hate that that made it feel so icky surrounding it like all those rumors that came about at this point It's like I'm not trying to change people's opinions about me or what's happened like I've contributed to the version of me That's on the internet. I have enough like distance now to understand that and to be at peace with that because I used to really not be Okay with it like why do people think this and like all I would want to do was like one at a time like whack them all But like you can't do that. That's so unrealistic So I'm a lot more at peace with like my journey and what's happened up until this point? And I'm very excited for what's to come. Do you have anxiety? I used to have a lot I get situational anxiety sometimes, but I I feel like I've kind of grew out of it. How do you do that? I think Anxiety is for me like some like look for a lot of people It's something that you can't immune control and help but for me it was very situational So I've created tools or along the way that just helped me personally to like move past that point and to really like sit back and Ask myself why I'm feeling that way address the things of what I'm feeling and then be able to walk into a room and be okay Is that part of like this huge healing process that you've gone on and did that just start after the engagement or has happened like something you've been doing because you've been online for 15 years It's something that was gradual over time, but I swear the past six months have been so formative for me like more than six months six to eight months like since I ended my engagement and moved into my new home and bought my business back like all of those things have really changed my life and so I just feel like I'm a different version of myself than I was a year ago and I'm going to keep changing and growing like I'm never Pretending that I'm the best version of myself like I love bettering myself I still work with a life coach on a week to week basis I still love to hear feedback and criticism and work on myself as a leader and a business woman and as a friend and as a significant other and so um yeah someone that's listening to this should I do my shoes off? Yes. I feel like it's made them wrong. We're very cozy. Yeah. Yeah. It's like it's full vibes. Yes. Yeah. My sweet bomber jacket. I feel like leaving Made me the strongest version of myself that I am today and I always say this I would not be able to date my husband had I not gone through what I've gone through because I know my value I know my worth. It's what I brought into new relationship So for you as you think about the future like how has your past affected the woman that you are today and the woman that you want to be as a wife As a mother and all these things that you left behind and wanted everything I mean, it's everything and I and I've done it very publicly too So everyone's seen all these different versions of me over the years actually You were saying about like meeting followers and they've been affected by this thing particularly I met somebody in the bathroom recently in LA and she said I left my marriage because of you And I was like whoa She's like no like I watched you go through breakup after breakup and not being willing to settle and we were we had just got I married we don't have kids yet like I'd realized if you could do it I could do it and so I left and it was like so I was like I cried with her It was a really special moment and I think that like just sharing so much of my journey online is help people Connected my story. They've just watched me evolve and change over the years and I hope that continues to happen Do you think this makes you more inclined or less inclined to want to get married? I still want it so badly more than anything. I'm just unwilling to settle. Is that like just in you? Yeah, like why like what is settling even look like you want to be in an unhappy relationship like I want Love fairy tale the whole thing. I want to wake up and be so happy to be next to that person like and it's not always the truth But I think your relationship should be one of the easiest parts of your life It should de-stress you. It should not bring you more stress. It should bring you joy and and that's what I want I feel like I have a lot of friends or friends of friends that are settling and it's very evident and sad and it's sad But it is hard to feel like in this era of like you hear about the horrible Men and the dating stories and I even met this woman in New York when I was just there And she saw me and my husband interaction she was like wow being around you guys has actually made me realize like It is not so bad out there and I need to change my perception and what I expect is gonna be there Because I'm so tired of just like what you see For you What is your mentality towards the world and like what is out there for you? There's so many people in this world like there is someone for everyone and I actually have a couple in my life My friends Ali and Wes who I love they've been married for 20 years They have three kids they live in Tribeca in New York. They're so chic. They're so cool. They go out I love them. They have the happiest sexiest coolest relationship ever And they were actually part of the reason I felt really good about like there's something like that out there for me And I'm gonna go find that I'm like getting emotional for some reason We talked about this for too long Um, sorry No, I looked at them and I was just like oh that exists and I want that I love you I am so proud of you because I I just show them everything I honestly Remember watching it and I just like my heart broke for you not because I was Sorry or felt sympathy. I was like so proud of you because I did it without what you went through publicly Knowing how hard that would have been is like I think I'm staring at one of the most brave people like seriously that I've sat across It's actually like incredible what you've been able to do your family dynamic your parents Like do you have parents that have that type of love and marriage or relationship? Are they are they diverse? Yeah, I'm diverse. Oh, yeah, I think that because I'm a child of divorce my parents got divorced when I was 12 So I was old enough to understand what was going on young enough to be completely affected by it And so I always looked at my relationship as I don't want that it to end in divorce Which is why I've been unwilling to settle so I really looked at that and it it gave me a lot of strength early on when it came to men Also a lot of like distrust and like all the things I come from like a divorced parent situation That I'm sure a lot of people can relate to but it definitely taught me a lot about not wanting to settle and what were you like as a kid? My mom always says that the easiest part about raising me was my birth That's terrible and I love what you're saying.
She says that because I was crazy. I mean, I was as hard-headed and big-willed and confident as you see me today. I really was and started blogging when I was 19 years old. So I was in my early 20s. I was coming up in New York City. I was getting put in rooms that I was like, oh my god, what am I doing here? But that I felt so cool being there and like that would come off as entitled at times. And I was learning how to be an adult in front of so many people. And so like childhood Danielle was just the same amount of like energetic with this hustler attitude. And I was like, play hard, work hard. The whole thing and it's kind of still how I am today. But I'm a lot more calm or now, I would say. I've said it before and I'm gonna say it again. This is one of the best times in history to build something of your own. If you have an idea for a business, I want you to pick up your phone right now. Because genuinely, you just need to start. Now, entrepreneurship is far from easy. 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Visit SoFi.com/hsrlone to learn more and see if the SoFi small business loan is right for your business. That's SoFi.com/hsrlone. What age did you start your first business? Was it 19? Yeah, it was 19. I mean, I was like social chair of my sorority and I was doing events. I wanted to be an event planner. So when I was in high school, I would always be the one throwing the parties and organizing events at school. And then when I was at Wisconsin for a year, I was social chair of my sorority. And I loved doing that. And then I interned in the city, worked in nightlife for M Groupones like Catch and that whole group. And I was doing event planning for them. And then I fell into blogging. So it was just completely a hobby when I started doing it. I saw something that I became really passionate about. And then saw very quickly an opportunity to turn it into a real business. Do you think what motivated you was money or was it something else? At first, I was motivated by just, I loved doing it. And then I was in school at the time. I was at FIT and I wanted to pursue it full time. I said, I think I can make money here and I love doing it. So if I can make a career out of the thing I love doing most, like let's see if we can make it happen. And then as I was able to start financially supporting myself, I just full steam ahead went for we were what. What was the first moment that you realized like this is a business? Yeah, it became a real business when I could financially support myself. And so when I started getting paid by brands for sponsorships, when I would, when affiliate marketing started becoming a thing and you could make commission off of products you were linking and promoting. And then eventually owning the product I was promoting. So the first moment I realized I should continue on the path of creating products was when I had a swim collaboration that sold two million dollars in the first few hours. And I was like, holy shit, there's really something here. My audience isn't just attention. They are consumers, they're buying, there's demand. I need to point that demand towards something I own, not just other people's businesses. 'Cause if I could sell millions of dollars of other people's products, why am I not doing it towards something I own? Which is why I really started pursuing we were what as a full ready to wear brand and introduced categories one at a time to start growing it into what it is that. You told my team that you were very good at making money before you understood what wealth is. For someone that's hearing that for the first time, what does that mean? So I think my relationship with money has changed over the years. At first it was income, right? It was a check, it was a thing I was able to buy. It was a milestone. It was like X amount in my bank account and then this. And then it became something that gave me choices, something where I could say no, where I could invest it, where I could put it back into my business. And then money became about building wealth and a net worth and what did it mean for the long haul? Who helps you navigate that transition of just making a paycheck to building wealth? Yeah, I think over the years as you grow, you have the right team that you surround yourself with, right? So like wealth managers and attorneys and financial advisors and all of those kinds of people and that comes with time. But I always say that like you want to surround yourself with a great team so that you can ask greater questions. Like you don't want to just surround yourself with a great team so that you don't have to know what's going on. Like I love surrounding myself with smart people. So that I can ask even better questions and learn from them too. And I always like to know what's going on. Like if I could tell my younger self anything, it would be like pay more attention in that business class. Like learn about taxes, learn about contracts, learn like the fine language of certain things because it'll really save you a lot in the long run. Now that you have enough money to be able to leave rooms you're no longer respected in or that you don't want to be in anymore. Oh, yeah, that's what you want. It's like I say fuck you money is the ability to leave any room that you're no longer respected in. By the way, that's not typically what I would associate fuck you money with. And I love that because it feels so much more obtainable. What would you say fuck you money is like, you know, extravagant things in my opinion. But like the way you just said it is so much cooler. I have just seen so many women in my life been controlled by not having the financial opportunity to leave. And so if you would ask me like what fuels you, why are you doing this? It is so that like no matter what throughout my entire life I have the option to leave any of your options. Optionality, that's what money is to me is optionality. And I love that you just said that because I couldn't agree more. Was there a specific number in your head that you said when I reach this, I'll be okay. Or like I've made it. There was milestones, right? When I made my first million, I was like fuck, that's so cool. And then I had an eight figure multiple in my head. And then I had, you know, whatever. So I've had different milestones. I feel really fortunate and really lucky like that if I wanted to stop today and just like live my life I could. But I have a long ways to go. I have really high aspirations for the brand and for myself. And so I don't have that like one number in my head anymore, but I just want exactly what we've been talking about, like the ability to say no and have that optionality and not have to do something. Let's talk about that because I think that as someone of your level that has equity in your own brand, what is motivating to you to get out of bed, to go and do something for a brand partner? When you're like, I have to consider that against everything that I could do for we were why and what is going to motivate you to get out of bed? - Yeah, for someone else. - You know what, my team motivates me and the people that I support through this business. We were what is mainly the brand, right? That's like our main source of revenue. But the influence or side of the business is still really powerful. And we still have a lot of revenue that comes from that. And I still really enjoy that because I genuinely enjoy sharing products and what I'm wearing. And even though nine out of 10 times and pulling one thing we were what out for my outfits, it's always mixed with something else, right? Great dynamite like in shoes and other things. And I like mixing and matching and sharing that. And so it's natural for me to take on influencer partnerships when I like a product, but I love saying no when I don't. So your first brand deal was like $1,000. - Okay. - To now your brand deal is being like 20,000 to 30,000. - That's for like a one-off post, right? Like influencers have a rate card. So yes, in the beginning it was at that, we were making up numbers. $1,000 and it was $3,000. Now it could be up to 20,000, but I'll still even take smaller deals than that. Then there can also be like six bigger deals with a larger partnership where there's also a rev share split and other things that go into the way you can make money. It always varies. It's always very specific to the brand partnership. And I always say like attaching my rate card, but like let's hop on a call because this isn't a one-size-fits-all model. There's always a discussion to have. Let me know what kind of budget you're working with. And I'll tell you what I think will help you perform best, which I love having that relationship with brands because when I talk to an influencer for we were wide and I say I'd love for you to promote our new fall collection, but what do you think will work best with your audience? Like what would feel the best for you? Is it stories? Is it a real? Is it an in-feed? Is it just a TikTok? Do you just want to like have the products on or have it on a hanger? Like what would work for you? And I want to hear because nobody knows better than the influencer what their audience is going to respond.
and I wish more brands would understand that. These long creative decks and suggested verbiage in this and you have to hit X, Y, and Z and this many frames and include these hashtags and whatever. It's like, do you want it to perform while or not? You gotta put a little trust in the creator at a certain point. - And I've heard through the great find that you are actually one of the top converters. - I think people talk in this space. - Yeah. - And here, what do people convert really well? But is that the reason you think that you were like, I need to start a brand 'cause I'm converting? 'Cause I think a lot of people in social media will hear this and be like, well, then I should just do a brand and I actually don't think it translates every single person. - Not everybody needs to create their own line and their own products, but it is a way to have longevity, right? 'Cause high converting influencers are few and far between. I know that as somebody who has a brand and somebody who is one of them. Like, it is not easy to find and I do really pride myself on someone who's created a long trusting relationship with their audience. And I told creators today, like, do not focus on growing your numbers. Focus on growing your relationship with your audience because once you have their trust and they are buying from you, the brands will come. There are some creators I work with that have under 100,000 followers and convert better than somebody with 3 million followers. Like, that is just the reality of the power of like a strong community. And I think that I've had so much longevity in this career because even though there's been a lot of noise around we were what over the years, I've remained really close with my community and I have a really long lasting trusting relationship with them. Like, we've grown up together and they trust when I'm promoting a product. I'm not just getting paid to do it. Like, I actually want it and would buy it myself. Let's go back to the creator that has under 100,000 followers. Yeah, they convert more than a person with 3 million followers. They're listening to this. What do you tell them to evaluate their value in the market? How much they should be paying themselves? Because I think that's one of the really hard parts about this space. There is no definition for a rate card based on exactly the engagement is so much more valuable than audience, but so many brands price based on audience. So what would you recommend to that person? I think now there's so many agencies and representation out there that you don't actually need to figure that out for yourself. Like, there's so many people you can turn to and go to to help you negotiate contracts and talk about rates and get a higher rate for something. And like, when you're a new creator, like, maybe you don't know what usage rights are. Like, that tax on a fee, like a traditional model. If they're going to use their image for six months versus three months, that's a different fee. So you need to find that out. And not everybody knows that early on. So you can teach yourself that and you can read things, but you can also rely on people who are experts in this and there's so much of it now that like, it's not hard to find. When you were thinking about transitioning from brand deals to creating equity and we were what? Did you ever anticipate it would be what it is today? No, I didn't even know when I started that. This wasn't a word. Yeah, there wasn't this industry. It didn't exist. So I didn't pick up my camera and start photographing street style thinking, I'm going to be in the creator economy and I'm going to be an influencer. Like, I was literally doing this as a hobby. So I never knew what the future looked like. And even if you asked me like eight years ago when I started the brand, I would not be able to tell you that. How would you describe the brand eight years ago to the brand today? Well, the brand it will be and is about to be with this relaunch, which I'm so excited about. It's just the more grown up version. Like, it's where I am today. It's where the brand is. We're just catching up with it. It's a new look, it's elevated, it's chic. It's still really accessible. Like, we make everyday pieces that people just want to wear that are easy that you can repeat. That can be wardrobe staples. And we are like a trend focused runway inspired brand. Like, we are looking at runways and street style and my own closet and we're taking inspiration and just making it accessible for our audiences. So we still have a wide range of price points. We still have those under $100 items. But now we're going up to like $8.50. So you just touched on a few words that we're going to like get into creative inspiration. And I think that this has been a subject of curiosity from the public for a very long time. People have questioned your creative process. How would you describe your creative process if we were what now versus when you first started? I think that something I didn't do early on was clearly communicate what we were, what was, right? Like, just what I was explaining to you that we take inspiration from runways and from trends and from the existing fashion industry and we translate it into something for the we were what customer. Were there times and designs over the years that shouldn't have made it through our process? For sure, I can definitely say that clearly. And were there times that people brought those concerns to light and said that our designs came too close to someone else's? Yes. And I did not handle those right. And I regret that. I was reactive. I was defensive. I confused providing context with taking accountability. And it's something that now that I've had a lot of distance from it. I'm able to look at and speak about clearly without being defensive and just own it. Which I think is really important and I think is something that people are looking to hear from me because it's something that I've danced around for a long time and was pretty scared to talk about, honestly. So I think that what you'll see now with We Were What is just a lot clearer communication. What do you think the people really want to hear? I think they just want to hear me own it and take accountability. Yes, there were times over the years where we've had designs that shouldn't have made it through our process. And there were times where I should have just owned something or not blown up about it publicly and tried to defend myself and share receipts and show intention. And like, that didn't really matter. Like, if somebody was hurt by a situation, they were hurt by it. And I didn't do a good job at hearing them. I think just owning that and being able to be like, that will always be part of my narrative. But it's not my whole narrative, right? Like, I'm really still so proud of We Were What and all of our original designs over the years and all the things we've created and built. And I don't think one interview and podcast and post is going to change that for people. Like, it's not. But I'm not trying to really change people's opinions. I'm trying to show them and how I operate and how the company moves forward that we are doing things differently now. Have you ever talked about it publicly? No, not so now, you know, not really. And what, like, came on to you that you wanted to do this? I feel like the last few months have just been really formative. Like, I just feel like I took a step back. I was a bit more quiet. I'm not sharing about my private life right now. And it's helped me to just kind of look at like the whole picture of like what's happened over the years and not be so defensive about it because I was always really defensive about it. Like, I'm a good person. I promise I didn't do that or that. It didn't happen. But like, sometimes it did happen. And like, it just, you know, there was just a lot and I didn't know how to deal with it. I didn't have the tools to deal with it. And so I didn't deal with it the right way a lot of the times. And now I'm able to just have a better perspective and an outlook just being a little further away from it. You seem to be someone that's very good at handling uncertainty or controversy. Did you grow into that? Because that to me feels like that is a hard skill to learn. It's hard and it's changed a lot over the years. I'm not here to like victimize myself by any means because like the same internet that gave me all my successes and amplified all that also shared about all my mistakes along the way. So I don't get to like love one and resent the other, right? Like the two coexist. I just think it's about how I move forward now. And I'm excited for people to see that. I'm excited for the rebrand. I'm excited to be separate a little bit from the brand where it can evolve and exist without me having to be in front of the camera every single day. I think it's going to be better for me personally. It'll help the brand to grow as well. And it's, there's just a lot of fun things planned. Do you feel like this moment in time with the podcast, the kind of the post that you're doing, the story like you will be done talking about it after this? Like it will just be like, I'm not speaking about it or will it be something that's just always going to be a part of your story? If I get asked about it, I think I have a much better perspective and a comfort level in talking about it. That it's not something I'll shy away from. Like it is part of my story and it will be part of my story forever. But I don't want to be my whole story. And I don't want my kids to Google me one day and just see like bad headlines. Like that would kill me. So I want my career to mean so much more than that in the long run. So you're pulling it all out of me today. I think there will be people that will watch this and be like, but it doesn't forgive. And I think that those people-- That's definitely going to happen by the way. I'm never going to make everyone happy. And that's something I'm okay with. And that is the reality of being public and sharing about this. And I full-blown know coming on podcasts and talking about this stuff publicly that it will kick up old dirt. And that's something that does give me anxiety. But like I can handle it. And I want to do this because it feels really important to me to talk about these things now and to be able to just like own it. And like I want to talk about it so I can just get it out there and hopefully just move on from it and let people grow and see the change for themselves. Are you or have you talked to people individually of people that maybe were hurt or were a part of it that you are going to reach out to? We're going to have a private conversation with those people. I have had some really great private conversations over the past few months that have been great. Yeah. Like I said, there's going to be people that are just not willing to walk and look the other way. Then there's people that are going to hopefully listen to you and be like, I actually am really appreciative that she's taking responsibility and she's taking accountability and we're all moving forward. Is there anything else that you feel like?
we haven't touched on, that you would want people to hear about this specifically. - I don't think that I have the right to people's opinions about me anymore. I used to think I did, and I'd be like, let me just show them this and prove to the mat, and I love talking about all the good things we were, what does, all the givebacks we do, the philanthropy work, and what we've done over the years, and all that stuff. And I'm like, just look, we do good things, and we're great, and look at our products and this, and I'm just not in the position where I'm trying to convince people to change their opinions about me anymore. Like, if you want to see it and give it a chance, that's great, and if you don't, then that's your prerogative. Like, it's just the way it is, but I really, for the first time in a very long time, feel at peace with that. You know that rent and mortgage payments have got to be the least sexy thing we spend our money on, but they're a necessity. You have to pay them whether you like it or not, and with our sponsor built, you can earn points on rent and mortgage payments to put your words the nicer and finer things in life. Like flights, hotels, that hot yoga class you've been putting off, and more. And I love that idea because it's kind of like your housing payment takes care of the responsible stuff, and Bill gives you a little something for the fun stuff. Bill can make other parts of where you live more rewarding to. Just download the build app, link a debit or a credit card, and ask the neighborhood concierge pretty much anything. It can tell you about exclusive benefits at restaurants, fitness studios, and more around your home. Download the build app and join the membership for where you live at joinbelt.com/HSR. That's j-o-i-n-b-i-l-t.com/HSR. And make sure to use RURL so they know that we sent you. This was the first brand I heard about when I moved to Los Angeles almost eight years ago. Oh, see ya. Now, this brand I remember hearing about because when I moved to LA and it was dry AF, someone told me about this undaria algae body oil. I started using it and fell in love with the ritual of taking care of my skin. It's wild to me that eight years later, multiple careers later, they are now a show sponsor. Their undaria algae body oil is one of their best products. Clinically shown to instantly and visibly improve skin elasticity and deeply moisturized because it's made with undaria seaweed known to help skin feel firmer and more youthful. If you wanna give this incredible oil a try, I have a special discount for my HSR angels. 10% off with your first order with code
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[email protected]. And let me know what you think. It's so funny because it feels like it is a rebirth, not just of the brand, but also of you, at a time that you're trying to separate the two. It's like your rebirthing, we were what? And your rebirthing Danielle Bernstein at the same time. Yeah. How do you think those two rebirths coexist and then will really have their separation in the future? Even just changing the Instagram handle. Like, I will no longer be we were what? I will be Danielle Bernstein again. So I will no longer be we were what? We've always been synonymous with each other and I've always been the face of the brand. And I still will be the thing that leads and charges the brand, but it's more about creating something that can live on past me and my following, which just feels really crazy. It does. Wait, should we do something funny? What? So your name in my phone is literally Danielle Bernstein, we were what? Should we remove their we were what? Yeah. Okay. I mean, it's up to you. Actually everyone, Danielle, we were what? She's going away. Danielle Bernstein, that is like the whole point of having this rebrand moment because in order to have 15 more years of we were what, it can't just rely on me and my following to be successful. Like, I have to be able to step away from it in a healthy way and it will still perform. And that is what I want for the brand. And then it's like, you are in a new frame of mind. What is that error called for you? It's just the rebrand. It's the new we were what and the new me. I'm excited to like talk about it a lot more. I've been loving writing on sub-stack. And I've been kind of avoiding these topics purposely because I wanted this moment to happen where we had the article in the podcast and I wanted it to be fresh for that. And now I'm excited to dive into all of these topics deeper on my sub-stack because I love writing. It brings me back to the OG days of blogging. And it's been something that's been like very therapeutic for me. So part of this rebrand is the fact that you bought out your partner, yeah. Which is again, you betting on yourself again. Is this the most amount of money that you've spent ever? Well, the first part is that I sold a piece of my company before I was 30 for eight figures. So I really cashed out of the business early, but I was able to start building my net worth and my wealth at a really young age. And that required a lot of responsibility and a lot of leaning on the right people and was an awesome decision that I'm so happy I made. And then an even bigger decision was to buy it back. I always had creative control, but I was really taking ownership back in the future of the company and was able to now do all of these things that I'm doing with it today. So let's break it down a little bit for the people that are listening that might not know exactly what that means. So you sold a piece of your company to your production partners that they were also an owner in your business. You still had majority control. You had creative control, but like you really made the decisions. Yeah, I think that there was a point where everything ended really amicably. And like I don't believe the same people like get you to be, you know, a $20, $30 million brand, get you to be $100 million brand. Like I do think when you want to hit a different level of growth, you need maybe a different person to do that with or the right partners to do that with. And so there just comes a time where you maybe outgrow somebody that helps you get to a certain point and that's really what happened. I think that goes back to what I said. Like that is a huge bet on yourself as you're navigating all of this. Well, the same time that I was buying back the business, I was also buying back my life. Like I was breaking off my engagement. Like however you want to put that, there were these like two huge pivotal moments that were happening at the same time. And it was really more about like I want to be in control of my future, both personally and professionally. And this is how I do that. That is such an insane thing to be able to say especially. But I didn't like buy back my life. No, but like you, it's in the way you just set it though. Like you do make decisions. And I think that's the funny thing when we think about buying and so tied to money. But it's like our most finite resource is time. And I always think about it that way totally. What would you tell a woman to have buttons up and ready to do by the time she's 35 to have option value? I would first take away the age completely because I think this like by 35 mentality is what got us both in like our situations to begin with, right? Like kids by 30 this by this like all these different age things that like now at 34. First of all, I feel like I'm 27 again. And I just feel like that kind of mentality is going to put us in the wrong head space to choose a partner, choose a career, all of the above. So first of all, I think choosing your partner is probably one of the most important business decisions you'll ever make. Like choose your partner, like it's a business decision because it'll tell you how much time and energy and happiness you will have in order to like then go do the other things. Not being stuck to like one version of success is also really important. Like I've always like moved the bar and changed what I thought success looked like for me. And that's okay. And like not being stuck to one version of myself has been such an important lesson I've learned over the years. But again, like freezing my eggs was something that was so important to me. And I'm so privileged that I was able to do that at a young age. And I feel so lucky that I had that experience and I have that insurance policy now. But that's not the reality for everyone. So you really have to take a step back and look at your life and see what am I compromising? And what is that taking away from me time wise? Because your time is money. And like money then is going to give you that optionality. But at the end of the day, like everyone's on their own journey and comparison is a deep of joy. And you just do not want to compare yourself to other people. The grass is always greener. Like what you see on the internet is not the whole picture. And you really just need to like stay in your own lane. You're keep on building we were what as your focus. How do you now feel about investing, angel investing, creator investing, what's your thoughts there? So that's been something that has been so fun and such a passion of mine over the years. Like I started angel investing and taking sweat equity and being a part of other companies maybe like six years ago. Started with Well Bell. And now I have a ton that I've done in the CBG space. But let's use Well Bell as the example because it's the perfect thing where it was such a natural progression of a product I love that I saw worked and it was proven results. And then I became super close to the founders. And then I said, we need to rebrand this. And I know how to market this better. And like let's do x, y and z. And here's the value I can provide. And so angel investing and becoming equity and equity holder in companies that I really believed in has been such a passion of mine for so long that I always said one day I was like, I'm going to start a BC firm and whatever. I really love doing it still. And when I believe in a product and the founder at the same time, that's when I want to get involved. And I know that I can provide a lot of value to that company that I'm really excited about it. See, when you say that your position with Well Bell is more like private equity, like you're so involved. Whereas I'm sure you have so many other companies that are more like angels where you're like, you put in some time, you put in some money, but it's like you're not so involved. Yeah. Because I do think that you as Well Bell, like I think of you when I think of Well Bell. Yeah.
many people do, for sure. When you think about this new world that we're all entering with creator investors, what are the things you would advise people just to make sure they know? So it's like, these are red flags, or this is things that I learned because I learned it the hard way I was one of the first ones to do this. What are the things that you think would be helpful if someone wants to start investing as a creator for creators? Because we have a lot of inherent value that we can provide on marketing, the promotion side of things, getting behind a brand, and really pushing our following towards that brand. When you get in early enough, you can be involved in the weeds of things, and getting involved so late stage, I don't think is as smart for creators. I really think we get exposure to so many young, up-and-coming brands, small businesses that are at their early stages, that just want to connect with an influencer, and that is the access that has helped me make a lot of my angel investments because I'll meet a brand at a very early stage. I'll see they have an amazing product. They have a great team behind them, and I'm like, I want to know because it's early stage. So look for those early stage companies that could use the check, but also want to give you sweat equity to be an advisor, and to be on board and as part of the team. And with my angel investments, I am getting involved operationally as well. I won't take on something unless I can give it some of my time enough to make a difference. I actually love that you just said that because one of the things I say is a good rule of thumb for a consumer brand, and again, everything is nuanced, but if the valuation is over like $50 million, it's likely hard to make the risk worth the return. Yes. For you, do you have any guardrails that you can think too for people of like, if they're starting to look at opportunities, how do they try to understand what's a good opportunity from something that might not pan out for them? I think what I said, like the early stage investments are going to be the ones that you can really touch and feel and see the impact that you're going to be able to make. And as they get later stage like that, like the risk and the reward becomes a lot more iffy, right? Like you don't know whether that's going to pan out. And if you're you're even writing a large enough check that it's going to be worth your time and commitment and promotion of the product, let's say. So again, I would just say look for the early stage. If you think about the next phase of building well for Danielle Bernstein, where are you going to spend more of your time and where do you feel like you're already really covered? I mean, I'm definitely going to still be spending a majority of my time building we wore what? Like that is my main focus and will remain my main focus for the foreseeable future, but it's really about building an ecosystem around we wore what where I can be the founder, but it don't have I don't have to be the face of it all the time. And we can build a really big community ecosystem around it where it can be successful on its own and stand on its own even if I step away. Danielle Bernstein, do you think there's anything that we haven't talked about that you would be sad leaving the set of hot smart rich if we did it? You covered literally everything. I'm sure I spoke way too much and rambled on, but we will see it in the added. Okay, can we do some rapid fire? Sure. Danielle Bernstein, what is the last thing you put on your credit card? Uh, a flight this morning has come back here. When? Like two weeks. Oh my god. Okay, what is the last most expensive thing? It's got to be something for my roof renovation. Unfortunately, not that sexy. Oh my god. Okay, finish this sentence. I know I'm stressed. If I'm spending money on, I know I'm stressed. If I'm spending money on like forward. Like if I'm shopping a lot, I've got to shop like forward or like my Theresa all the time for net affordable. If I'm stressed, I'm shopping honestly. What is something you hate spending money on? It like little things like things you would laugh at, like under 100 all things like the most random shit that I'd be like, oh, why am I spending money on that? But then like I'll buy like a designer bag. So it like doesn't make any sense. But I feel like everyone has their version of that. Yeah. What age did you stop worrying about money when I sold my company in my late 20s? What is the last purchase that changed your life? My home. Love that. Yeah. If you could only tell yourself one, HSR love note for the rest of your life, what would it be? So it's not mine. It's DVF said it and it's that the most important relationship is the one with yourself. And if you could title this season of your life, what would it be called? Daniel Bernstein, the rebrand era. Daniel Bernstein, thank you so much for coming on HSR. Where can people find you and how can HSR help you? At We Were What? At Daniel Bernstein now. And to We Were What.com. That's crazy. Yeah. The first time you're saying it. Yeah, it is. How does it feel? It feels really good. I'm obsessed. Thank you. Daniel Bernstein, thank you for coming on. We love you. I love you. This is so fun.
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