Dani Donovan and ADHD Content Creation

Welcome back to ReFocused with Lindsay Gensel. What you're listening to today, it's a little bit different than the podcast episodes we've shared with you before. This episode, this person's story, is a part of ReFocused Together, a special series the team at ADHD Online and I have been working on for ADHD Awareness Month. Every day throughout the month of October we'll be sharing a different person's ADHD story, which is fitting because the theme for ADHD Awareness Month this year is understanding a shared experience. And I can't think of a better way to really get a sense of that shared experience than by telling a different story every single day. And to be clear, yes, that's 31 stories in 31 days. My name is Lindsay Gensel and along with the team at ADHD Online, I'm so excited to present ReFocused Together, a collection of stories aimed at raising awareness on just how complex ADHD is and the different ways it shows up in people's lives. When we share stories, it's easier to find the perspective, ideas and tips that help us live our best lives. I'm interviewing people with varying backgrounds, diagnoses, experiences and perspectives. We'll hear from working parents, advocates, engineers, writers, PhD candidates and more to learn that while we may be different, we are all united by our own ADHD journeys. This special project is very near and dear to my heart. And although talking to 31 different people has been a lot of talking, I am so grateful for each person who shared their story with me and I cannot wait for you to meet my guests and get to know them. Be sure to subscribe to ReFocused With Lindsay Gensel so that you don't miss a single story this month. And with that, let's get on to today's episode. Diagnosed with ADHD when she was 18 during her freshman year of college, Danny Donovan knew something was going on. Her life had started to fall apart. A stroke of luck connected her to a psychiatrist with ADHD who saw the connection and while accepting her diagnosis took some time, the undeniable difference medication made for her helped her look past any worries she had about the stigma that came with being neurodiverse. Through her comics and TikTok videos, Danny has helped build an online community focused on nurturing a sense of belonging. He'll also helping people with ADHD better understand themselves and feel empowered to explain their struggles to their loved ones. She also speaks about neurodiversity in the workplace and is the author of the anti-planter and activity book for procrastinator set to launch in November. You can find Danny and her ADHD comics on Twitter, TikTok and Instagram @dannydonovan. And I'm very excited to announce ADHD Online will be giving away at least 100 copies of Danny's book, with a set number reserved specifically for refocus listeners. And if you're attending the International Conference on ADHD and Dallas this November, make sure to stop by the refocus booth where I'll be giving away a limited number of the vouchers or signed copies. Now let's get into today's episode of refocus together with Danny Donovan. Danny, I am very excited that we get to have this conversation for ADHD. We're in a spunt. Thank you so much for joining me on refocus together. I have to tell you, so I am a later in life diagnosis. I was diagnosed in January of 2021. I was like two months shy of my 35th birthday. And it was a tweet that I saw in a moment and immediately called and made an appointment like, "Hey, impulsivity." Like, impulsivity for the win at one point in time, you know? I overrode the like appointment hating part of your brain. So I'm proud. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. And as I've kind of gone back and looked at what led up to that, I can go back in my phone and I actually have screenshots from June of 2020. So well before I was diagnosed of your content. And it's just so funny to me that at that moment, whatever it was that you were putting out, I was so connected to that I, you know, I took a screenshot and I put it into a folder that actually said like ADHD stuff. And went on my merry way. And so fast forward, here I am. You know, we're in the midst of sharing 31 different stories across the month of October. And I get to have one with you, which is very exciting for me. So thank you so much for joining us here. Absolutely. I'm so psyched. I love doing. I love doing podcasts. I'm not always the best at listening to podcasts because my attention span is not always so good. But I love listening to people talk about their ADHD on podcasts because we tend to, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, but can like follow each other really well. So I think that that's something that I appreciate about what you're doing here too is just like getting so many different people's perspectives because everybody presents differently. Everybody has different like lived experiences. This is, you did not even ask me a question, but can I say something? Please. Well, this is one of the biggest things I try to talk about, right, where people asked, looked at me and my experiences as this, you know, resource, which it definitely is. But I also like to remind people that like my husband has ADHD and he completely has like a different set of struggles than me, right? I was the honored kid, you know, quote, unquote gifted programs and like perfectionistic, like stay up all night, get my project done, I need an A or else I'm not good at anything kind of mentality, where I was really overworking to compensate for the difficulties I was having and no one was paying attention to like the social difficulties, right? The difficulty making and keeping friends and all that stuff. So like work in school hadn't getting the work done hadn't been that big of an issue for me because I've always, you know, had that going for me, I guess. And then my husband struggled on the flip side very much with school. He's got some other like learning disability stuff that he's dealing with. But like it sort of reminds me, right, when I post something about like my messy house and people are like, I have ADHD and like that's not that's not ADHD. Like that's just like, especially when like the word laziness is like such a, I've come to test it so much, but being able to point to something like that and say, look, my experience is not everybody's experience. You might not have a hard time cleaning, but I bet that like I have an easy time with some stuff that you have a hard time with because a, it's not a competition, but be no contact creator is going to be able to make your exact lived experience. And so that's why I think it's so great bringing it bringing it home here. There are so many people out here discussing ADHD and contact creators making stuff because all these different perspectives really weave together to create this like wonderful woven blanket. I don't know where I was going with that, but like it shows a bigger picture, a clear picture for people of what it can look like instead of just one person being a spokesperson for all people with ADHD, right? Like you can find yourself and you can find creators, but there are people who like creators who make completely different content, you know, that I do, who relate to them. And then so it's just, it's really great to see how the number of people out there who are making content about ADHD, making podcasts about ADHD and talking openly about it because it's less weird now. And that was the goal, make it less weird to talk about. I couldn't agree more. And you know, I going back to the comment you made about how it's hard for you to listen to podcasts. Sorry, I was like listening to. No. No, but it's, it makes me think because I will produce a podcast and you're in your head, like did any of that make sense? And I always know when it's good, when someone in my life who's neurotypical listens to it, like my boyfriend or one of my friends and they're like, oh my gosh, that was really good. And I'm like, did it make sense? Because you know, you can just go off on a tangent and talk for an hour and you're like, I don't know how we went from point A to point B, but we did. And I don't know what happened there. You know, you kind of just like blackout. So. Well, I think it's, I am with, and with in comedy, I did an improv class with my husband, a really long time ago, just for fun. And when they talk about how humor is that ability to get from point A to point B and have people connect those dots themselves. And the further away you can put those dots, the more gratifying that like harder they laugh because they had to work a little harder to get the joke. The further apart they are, the higher likelihood that like someone didn't get it. So they feel really, you know, good and proud of themselves. And with a lot of humor, right? You go A to C. And then you let them fill in the B themselves. And I think for a lot of people with ADHD, we just go A to C, A to C, A to C all the time. And other ADHDers are, you know, people a lot of the time can see, oh, okay, I can see kind of where you went with their like, I'm following. Let's go. Other people are like, what is happening? What, how did you, how did you jump? So, but that, and that all goes back to that original ADHD storytelling flow chart that I made that kind of like kick. off this whole adventure into content creation, you know, in my life, which stemmed from this difference that I felt in how I related to people and how my brain prioritized what thoughts were important because everything seems important. Every little subplot of how I know every character in this story seems very relevant, especially if it's an interesting story. So I'm like, "Okay, while I have your attention, I want to give you all this good stuff all at one time and takes all the detours." And so it was, I think that really hit home for a lot of people who saw this, you know, other people get from point A to point B and they ignore all of the little the little tidbits versus the tidbits all being like some prominent element of the conversation. And so that's why it's so easy for us to get off track because we get lost in a tidbit inside of a tidbit. A thousand percent, a thousand percent. And we get very excited about those. We're like, "Yes, you need to know this." Yes. Said Danny as she still had not let herself be asked the first question of the podcast. But this is why I love all of these different conversations is I actually was just, I just had a conversation with somebody and I said I should have made a logging system for every person who said, "This is probably a tangent," or that was a little long and it's like, "Yeah, no, that's us." My favorite thing is to just say thank you for coming to my TED Talk at the end of tangents now and everybody laughs and I get to go, "Okay." And so there's some element of the therapist in the back of my brain that's like, "Why do you feel the need to make jokes to cut the tension because you feel so, because you're trying not to apologize for talking too long?" So now you're making a joke, which is progress, but still maybe eventually I'll get to the point to where I'm like, "Okay, people just know this is how I am. I don't need to call it out like self-aware call outs every single time it happens." But a lot of us really have been trained to be self-conscious or to worry that we're being annoying or that we're taking up too much space or that we're talking too much or talking about ourselves too much, even though a lot of time and time again, we're shown that that's just how we relate to people of like, "Oh, you told me something and that reminds me of this thing that happened to me. I will tell you about that thing so that you know that I know how you're feeling." And other people don't do that necessarily as often and so they might view it right as this, "Oh, they just care about themselves or they don't care about what I'm talking about." And reality, like so much disconnect there is communication differences and I think that communication styles is this is not again, not what we were talking about originally, but like communication and ADHD is a huge, huge, huge thing and we don't talk about it as much because it's not, "Oh, focus or like time management or organization or something like that," but they don't realize that those that impulsivity to blur out or to say everything without a filter like, you know, or to cut people off and not realize it, said Danny as she cut someone off without realizing it, but you know, it's, "Oh, I do it all the time." It's just a matter of people being able to, and this is going into the I'm answering the last question a little too early. I'll come back to it, but that people don't necessarily realize that ADHD impacts every single element of our life at all times period, every, every text that I struggle to get myself to answer even though I care so deeply about the other person and I thought about answering it three times this week, but now it's been so long that I feel guilty and I'm just going to avoid it, but I'm not going to open it. I'm not going to open it because if I open it then that's I'm going to forget about it even though I know I'm, you know, and like so now my phone right now I have 111 unread text messages and I walk around with this, everybody thinks I hate them. I tweet constantly about how bad I am at answering text messages now, but I still, because it's avoidance, but also I've realized that some of the avoidance creeps back to the like, "Oh, every time I answer a text, I'm on my phone. I get on my phone to answer the text. Now I'm on my phone. Now I'm on Twitter, now I'm on TikTok, now I'm on this, and I'm not working anymore." So that turned into I can't answer a text while I'm working. And so like, and then it really, so much of what I do now and what I have had very useful is these tendencies I have where I go, "Why do I do this thing? Why do I keep doing this thing I don't want to do? Why does this keep happening?" And then like asking questions, asking why and and pulling back at the little strings to see, where did this start? What is causing it? And like, it really helps to alleviate some of this self-blame and self-legilation and over things that really are, you know, like that's a coping mechanism. That was, I avoid text messages to focus more. So I'm solving some of the focus issues, but I'm creating new issues. So anyway. I also have the text message issue. I was up to 90 something. Right now, it's hovering in the 30s. And I think it's going to be. Oh, but I was going to go, I was going to go the more, the more like personal issue I have is cards. So there's actually like a stack of cards below my desk that have never been opened. Like people send them to me. Yeah. And everyone's, I was like, "What if there's nice stuff in there?" Like people are sending you like warm wishes or money. It doesn't. I'm obviously, where I'll buy the cards for my husband and I have stacks of like anniversary cards and birthday cards and we'll buy them before the date and then we'll both forget to give it to each other on the date. And so then we'll like randomly be cleaning and find anniversary. Like, "Oh, I was going to give you this." And then we'll like write in it and give it to each other, you know, four months late. Or we'll find the card, the other person, like it's just, it's such a funny thing. But again, it's cards giving someone a greeting card and remembering where I put the card and remembering to buy a card or, "Oh, I haven't forgotten I need to buy stamps and mail something." Like, that is ADHD and that's not in a symptom list. Inability to mail things is not, you know, going to be in a symptom list. And I think that that's one of the biggest impacts that contact creators, like myself, have been able to have on people and on why so many people reach out and say that I was the person that, you know, or other contact creators like me were the reasons why they saw a diagnosis is because they were humanized. The symptoms of generalized forgetfulness or avoidance or disorganization about our stories now. And there's stories that people find themselves in and find themselves relating to an after-wow. You go, "There's a little too many of these." Like, someone was like, "You know, these people with ADHD need to stop being so relatable or I need to talk to a doctor." Right? And it comes down to the fact that when you give some context for how those symptoms look on a personal level of how they impact the individual experiencing ADHD and not just how we impact other people. For a long time, a lot of ADHD content, I think, really was boiled down to symptoms lists, what were like, you know, what were like and how to fix us. Like, it really, a lot of articles about ADHD did seem to, to, and it's not that like symptom alleviation is not a goal. Like, obviously, we would love our lives to be easier and better. But there's a lot of stuff out there that was written for ADHD brains that was not being written by ADHD brains. And so then you read it, you know, and your first, your first tip for getting organized is to get a plan. Or I'm like, "Who wrote this? I need names." Right? So I'm seeing this big, and I think everybody is seeing this big trend of people who are making content and sharing what works for them. And it's happening at such a rapid pace that people are able to like absorb ideas and create their own and like remix them and share them with people. And now you've got a lot of people at the same time kind of creating their own toolboxes of, "Oh my gosh, did you see this TikTok about how Casey Davis like organizes her fridge?" And she puts all of her condiments in the vegetable drawer since you don't need to remember that, you know, like if you need ranch, you know you need ranch, so you don't have to, like, then you could put your vegetables where you can see them. And I'm like, "Wow, wow, okay, you know, and so then I did that. I told people about that. I've mentioned it in the anti-planar. I'd give, you know, Casey a shout out." And like those little flips of like, "You don't have to do this this way. This is all made. Everything's made up." You can put anything anywhere you want in the fridge. So if you know something, is it working for you? Why don't you just try something out and see if it works? And then it does and you feel a little silly for like, "Well, why don't I think of that sooner?" But, you know, we're really, really kind of all pushed in these directions. We're like, "This is the solution. A planar is the solution. The vegetables go in the vegetable drawer." You know, like, "This is how it's done. This is how it is. Cookie cutter." You know, and it's easy. And I think that more and more people are seeing their ability to break out of that and then be inspired to use their creativity to, you know, make solutions for themselves. I want to take a step back because one of the things that I have asked everybody is, you know, to go back to before you were diagnosed. And so I know you were diagnosed as a freshman in college. And it's like a jump start. It's not early enough in my opinion. You know, like we are so far behind in recognizing how ADHD affects women. And I know we can all probably go back to that point in school where we were like, what why weren't any of you paying attention? No one saw this. What led up to you asking those questions and seeking out a diagnosis in the first place? So funny is I did it. So I didn't seek out an ADHD diagnosis. So we'll get there really fast. My mom had asked me so I from I have oh my god. Oh wow. I'm having a complete brain fog. Combined type ADHD. Oh my god. I'm like the one with the both. Combined type ADHD. But I was I was pretty hyper for a girl. So like a lot a lot of women, you know, a lot of girls go on diagnosed because they don't show those classic, you know, running around symptoms. Now I did not have the running around, you know, behavior as my hyperactivity so much as just like constant chattyness, constant chattyness and constant like fidgeting and playing and making impulsive decisions like, oh, I got my scissors, my first pair of scissors on my first day of first grade. Let me just chop off my hair next to my ears. Let me just make a giant cut right there. The second I'm handed scissors. Or you know, oh, I was a soccer goalie for years and years as a kid and I kept getting in trouble because I get so bored standing down there when nothing was happening that I'd start doing, you know, cartwheels and chasing butterflies and stuff and then wouldn't be paying attention and would get scored on. And I had a difficult time with, you know, making friends. But like, you know, I was a quote, like I was I was weird. So what are you going to do, right? But fifth grade came around and my mom, I guess had even spoken directly to my teacher and had said, do you think that she might have ADHD and my teacher tells my mom she can't have ADHD, she's too smart. So like that's where that kind of starts is that, you know, education at all forms. It's not just, oh, did a doctor catch it. It's like if someone suspects something and someone, you know, like a educator is operating off of bad information or stereotypes, that's just a horrible situation, you know, moving forward, because that could have potentially been caught right then. I could have potentially been diagnosed in fifth grade before I even went to middle school. And like how awesome would that have been, right? But it, but it wasn't. And I'm not going to just be like, and this is all because of, I'm not going to say your name, but I'm, oh my god. But like, so, so, you know, and it was rough. I got to middle school high school. I found, you know, a crowd that I fit in with who all now have ADHD diagnosis. But I went to college and my life just really started to like fall apart pretty quickly because I was now, I was always really good at school, but I didn't have to worry about, like, I had to make sure my laundry was like in the laundry room before laundry day, but like I wasn't doing, I didn't do my laundry. And so like that is a very privileged thing to have, have been done, but like I didn't think about that, right? Or like I didn't have to feed myself dinner. I didn't have to, you know, remember, like I wasn't driving enough places where I was like I didn't, I was like get my oil changed or like do kind of all this stuff, manage my own sleep schedule. Like no one's gonna know. And so there was a real, and I had eight o'clock classes. And so I had, and I had two. There was no alternative. There was no option for me to not have 8 a.m. classes. So I was staying up really late on my homework, having to get up really early. I was not feeding myself while I was eating easy Mac for like every, for breakfast lunch and dinner, you know, cold cold chef boy R.D. out of a can type feeding myself situation. And I was really missing home. And so I went to see a psychiatrist about depression and my sub sleeping issues, but like just talk about maybe going on an antidepressant. And she just heard the velocity at which I was changing topics. And she herself had ADHD. And she was like, Hey, so has anyone tested you for ADHD? And I'm like, what? What? No. And she's like, okay, I think, okay, I want to talk to you about this because I'm pretty sure you have it. She asked me about my childhood and I just started bawling, you know, and and so she was able to spot it really quickly. But I had that moment where I was like, I don't, I don't have ADHD because and I don't, I just prefaced this, but like it doesn't make me sound good by, you know, thoughts of myself. Everyone I know who has ADHD is a boy who's annoying and has no friends. Like that was I hate, I hate, it pains me to say that phrase, but I remember that those emotions because I didn't want the label. I didn't want the stigma attached to the label. I didn't want that to be the answer. I didn't want that to be associated with me. I was not as woke as I am now. And and so she was like, well, I want to start you on some meds. Well, just let me know how they go. And then I took them and I was like, wow, it could have been like this the whole time. Are you joking me right now? You know, and to some people, it's like, oh, it's, it's like wearing glasses, right? Where glasses that work some of the time, but not all of the time, but where you didn't realize that the world isn't supposed to be that blurry and it's not that blurry for everybody. So I went and, you know, and got the diagnosis and then later was diagnosed with bipolar 2 and started on some mood stabilizers. And that was like the key. That was like the final key to click into the lock because the ADHD meds were helping me. But I still had all of these other kind of things going on that I was struggling with. And so now that I kind of you find the the little solution of like, okay, these are the things I need. And then once you, you know, adjust, adjust stuff around and I kind of stop and like, wow, is this what stable? I mean, stable for me is still going to be less stable than someone else. But anyways, thank you. Not thank you for coming to my TED Talk. No, no, I already, I already gave away my thing at the beginning. Yeah. So that's, that's my long-winded diagnosis story. It is long-winded, but it's great because you touch on, you, you touch on everything, you know, you go back and I feel very connected to some of the things you talked about. Middle school was so hard for me, especially with friendships. And now I look back and I'm like, oh, about that. And even now is like a 36-year-old, I'm like, friendships are still really hard. And there's all these things they were much hard. Invisible rules. All these weird invisible rules. And the big thing I cannot handle is people who don't wear their heart on their sleeves, who don't tell you when something is bothering them. And I think that they're back to that communication thing, sorry, not to hijack this conversation. But that, that a big thing with people is that the communication differences of like if something is bothering you, I need you to tell me. And I grew up in all these environments where people would just leave. They would just leave instead of having that hard conversation with me. And I finally had, I finally had, you know, a close friend who was like, hey, I love you so much. It hurts my feelings when you interrupt me because it makes me feel like you don't care about what I have to say. And that hurt, but it was accurate. And so since then, you know, I'm not perfect about it, but I became a lot more conscious of when I did it. And I'd be like, oh, sorry, hang on, go ahead, you know, and I still have the interrupt and then the hang on, which is a progress. And now I just do it a bit less. Or remember when I'm done with what I'm saying to ask them to finish the thing they were saying, you know, but that's what growth looks like. And it requires a level of maturity. And so I think when we're younger, it makes, I'll say, it makes sense that people aren't willing to have those hard conversations because you're like, I am in seventh grade. And I am still developing. And I do not have the emotional maturity to be like, hey, we need to have a frank but uncomfortable conversation. It's a lot easier for people to know about. But now being able to have those types of relationships with people, like, you know, it's it's it's different ball game. And at some point, you are probably going to say again that this conversation is all over the place, but it's a beautiful segue to my next question because you've talked about growth and you talked about some of the things that you've changed. And you mentioned kind of finding this balance with the medication and figuring it out between the ADHD diagnosis and the bipolar and and making sure that everything is working together and not working against itself. What have you seen over the years that you've added in or taken out of life that has helped you in in whatever capacity? It could be getting rid of a planner. It could be, you know, better sleep schedule. It could be stuff that worked for you at one point that stopped working. So I love that first off. Can I just well done? I just I love I love this as a question because people don't often enough say like give people the permission to use something and then discard it as soon as it stops being useful. There's all that baggage that's surrounding We then label as failure. I attempted this thing and maybe it worked and it doesn't work anymore. I failed. I attempted this thing. It didn't work. I failed. It's working. It's working. It's not working as well. I failed. And so the idea of that experimentation, I think, is really the thing that I have grown. And that's exactly what the anti-planar is. But the ability to stop viewing my attempts at things as successes or failures, everything is just, let's see if this works. Let's see if this keeps working. Oh, this isn't working. Do I want to ditch this or do I want to adjust it and remix it? And so I have things in my life that now I, you know, strategies that I use when it's helpful, when it's necessary, and then I drop it. And I forget it exists. And then, you know, some other big project comes up and I'm like, okay, I need to organize all these things and just, oh, I have a perfect thing for this. And then I end then I whip it back out. And so I've really, so as I stopped getting so invested in solutions, there is not a magic bullet for anything. There's really not. And so I think that illusion kind of happening or like taking that illusion away of strive, if I could just do this, then I would be happy, you know, like it's not tenable. And so coming to terms with the fact that like that, and it's not like, oh, I'm a failure so I should expect failure. It's like, that's not growth. Like that's not, if you stick with the same thing forever and ever and ever and ever, you're never going to find something else that maybe would work even better because what is important, you know, say, would you have to change? But, and looking at it as an opportunity to again flex that creativity. So yeah, working on black and white thinking, I guess, is the biggest, the biggest mind shift. And a huge thing that I don't think, I don't say people talk about enough. I'm like, I talk about it plenty. Perfectionism and ADHD, perfectionism is this looming thing that just like, it can suck up all the time, you know, but I care so much about about making something excellent. And I don't know how to do just the bare minimum of something that I care about. And so I actually just have an exercise about right, being able to learn to separate the must-haves from the nice to halves and getting the must-haves done first. And then if you still have time and energy left, doing the nice to halves. Now there are times where like, I am such a hypocrite, like I call myself a hypocrite and they anti-planner quite a few times where I'm like, this is easier said than done. And I redid this page three times. So like, take everything with a grain of salt. But the ability to adapt and and learn and figure out what is the bare minimum look like. And then everything above that is gravy. So that was, I don't know if that was an adequate answer. But no, it was, well, and it was great. And you touched on the growth side of things and how important it is to acknowledge that things change and we as humans change. And I want to go back, you know, you mentioned your stereotype in your head when the psychiatrist said ADHD. And I have said the same thing and I hate admitting it. But in my head, when I was a kid and there were people in class predominantly boys and if you knew they had ADD because at the time that's what we called it, they were quote unquote dumb. They were not smart. They were not going to make it far in life. And I hate at getting it. But again, you know better. We got to own it now. It is. Obviously, that's not how we feel to this day. It would be real awkward if you did. Right. Yeah. The anti-growth ADHD movement. Yeah. No, no, no, no, absolutely not. We're not here for it. But I think that there really is that level of seeing it as growth. And that's what I kind of touched on with the anti-planar is that like this feel, if I were to define this by how my old brain would have defined it would have been, these are all of my failed attempts at getting my life together. These are all my failed attempts at things that worked and they stopped, you know, these are all my failed attempts. And I kind of was like, what if failure looks like not trying anything and winning looks like continuing to try new stuff because I do love new stuff and how the research phase and the planning and like, even if I only end up doing something for two weeks, that's more than I was going to get if I didn't do it, you know. And so kind of looking at things as a, I'm really proud of myself for trying, like it's so hard, right, the participation trophy thing, but like being proud of yourself for trying and proud of yourself for the bare minimum. And I touched on my webinar thing. I did about the anti-planar about how I would love to go on a 30 minute walk every day. I would love to. But I don't always have it in me. And so as long as I put on my shoes and I walk to the stop sign and back, my brain's like, I went on a walk today. Like it, it took me three minutes, but it is three minutes that I didn't have to do. I made the conscious choice to do it. And sometimes you get to the stop sign and you know, when I keep going and that happens a lot. And then sometimes it doesn't and I walk back. It's not, I failed because I was going to go on a 30 minute walk and I only went on the three minute walk. I was planning on going on a three minute walk. Everything else is extra. It's bonus. It's gravy. So I had to say, it's learning to set your expectations lower is my advice in this regard. Well and I love that we're having this conversation and you talk about, you know, all of these things that you could put into the failure box and just like let it sit there and let it weigh you down. And I have been dealing with that, you know, I'm not even two years into my diagnosis. And I can look back and I'm ruminating on all of the time I wasted on things and the energy I put into things that didn't matter. Like you said, we're above and beyond what I needed to get done. And then it was just, you know, a snowball from that in an avalanche of bad feelings. And even just talking with you and hearing how you frame it in my head, I'm going, you know, yes, it is frustrating. All of those things that added up and are making you feel bad. But now you know what you really want to do, you know, I did all of those things. And now I know that it's not what I want to do. And that's a pretty awesome place to be. And so it's kind of just reframing it. But again, you have to come back to it every day. And look at like I stopped and I thought I go, I've, how can I feel like a failure? You know, how few people have probably tried this many things, like how many people would go, oh, I tried a planner and it didn't work. So now I just don't do anything, right? Like that's a, that's a camp that a lot of people are in. A lot of people are in that camp. Planners don't work for me. So I, I'm trying to make it to do list every once in a while. And that doesn't work a lot of the time. But like that's where a lot of people reside. And I was trying thing after thing after thing and feeling like, you know, that I was failing because, because of how I define success. So like redefining what success looks like. And it's so much easier. So then done again, I try to put little asterisk next to everything because it feels like when people tell you, just don't care about what other people think. You're like, oh, okay, very helpful. Let me just turn that switch off. Okay. Done. Excellent. I don't live, I wasted so much money on therapy. But like learning to, same thing with like learning to set your expectations low or learning to do that stuff. And thinking about it as far as like if you were to talk to yourself as like a child or eight, it doesn't have to be yourself as a child, a child. But like how would you talk to a child who is upset that they tried something and it didn't work? What would you say to them or, or would you let yourself, you know, the mean comments that people have that pop up in their heads about lazy and failure and you always do this. Like, if you heard an adult talking to a kid that way, you wouldn't just sit around and like be like, okay, this is completely normal and fine, right? And so really treating yourself with that kind of like kids aren't the only ones who deserve compassion and respect, you know? And so really trying to view it as doing yourself a kindness because learning to, you know, it all starts with this like learning to be nice to yourself because you deserve to be treated nicely. And you're all that's happening when I, you know, was being mean to myself all the time. I thought that that was, you know, helping. I thought it was motivating. I thought it and all it did was like create, it might have created some progress, but it was all for the wrong reasons. And it was like built on this like really rickety foundation where myself a steam is now completely like at the mercy of other people's validation, right? Tell me I did good. I need to know that I did good in order for me to feel like I did good because that wasn't coming from the wasn't coming from inside. It was not coming from an authentic place where like, even if someone else doesn't like this, that's too bad. I like it. And that does take again a lot of growth and a lot of healing and a lot of therapy. So. (laughs) - Well, and I'm curious about that because you have put yourself into this position as a content creator and the unfortunate side of the internet is that there are sometimes really terrible people yelling loudly on the internet. So how do you balance putting stuff out that is so personal and is helping so many people, but we know we are predispositioned to be listening for that one person in the back of the auditorium who's just booing and they might be yelling quietly or they might be booing quietly, but that's all we're hearing. How do you drown that out? - My brain goes, don't read the comments. No, I will say I have been very, very, very fortunate that 'cause people are like, how do you handle negative criticism? I'm like, I don't get very much. It's surprising. It is, it is surprising, not in a like, ooh, pat myself on the back. I have everything. I make this amazing. Like I get tons of comments, tons and tons of comments. I cannot and do not read them all. I, that would be my entire day. (laughs) You know, especially some of these TikTok videos where you know, you've got 30,000 comments. Like that's not, that's not gonna happen. So I'm sure that plenty of people have said plenty of me things, but I will say that talking about my ADHD, especially on, on like Twitter and TikTok, particularly is kind of where I live, that the community is so tight and so loyal, that like I feel very free to be open because I don't, I was like, I don't have to defend myself if someone comes in my comments and decides that they wanna start acting up because other people will come and rush to, you know, your defense and it's not just because it's me and I'm a comment, you know, just because it's me and I'm a content creator and so I've got, you know, fans who will stick up for me. These hashtags, you know, people talking openly about ADHD, like if someone's talking about how their ADHD impacts their life and someone starts being mean, you look, I'm not gonna cuss on here, but like you look like a complete jerk. Like you look bad. And so there's that, right, like don't feed the trolls. But like knowing and how encouraging it is to see other people sticking up for people that they don't know, just on the basis of like, you were really brave for sharing that and this guy does not have anything better to do with his life. So he gets to get the stand. So it's like it is, even if there are those people out there who, you know, might say the thing, they don't often, in my experience, go unchecked. They people are ready and willing to check them and it's like, you know, like as far as, 'cause people are really excited to stand up for people putting themselves out there, especially being so vulnerable about a topic that they want people to continue to feel safe to discuss. And so I do think that there are people out there who are gonna look for anything they can poke holes in whatever, but the main thing that all anybody ever really boils down to is that's not ADHD, you're just lazy. That's the take is, you know, that's not ADHD, you're just lazy. And I, that used to wreck me. Someone calling me lazy. What have like ruined my day a couple of years ago? And now I just like, I hear it now, I'm like, (snaps) Okay, you have no, I just made this giant book, like call me lazy one more time, you know? And like, oh, I don't clean my house the way that you might clean your house. And that makes me, you know, I've completely bucked the term lazy in all honesty, 'cause it's a capitalist term made to shame us into feeling like we're not productive enough. And, but I, where was I going with that? Yeah, people on the internet are gonna be people on the internet. But like, honestly, I have found very little, again, in my circle of stuff I've seen, but even the comments, because they, they, social media will push the ones to the top, right, they will push the good stuff to the top. And so by the time that you start getting the trolls who are saying the mean stuff just to be inflammatory, you've probably got lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of comments. So you may not even see them. Anyways, that's my take. (laughs) It's a, it's a great take to have. And I think it's one that I hope a lot of people can take some, you know, comfort in moving forward. 'Cause I think so many people just get very hyper aware of who's listening and who's paying attention. And once you start to tell those voices to, you know, go whatever themselves, that's when like, you know, that's when the real stuff comes out. When you're not worrying about what you're saying in front of who, and who is listening. - And it says more about who they are. I mean, it's set again. You sort of advise you're like, oh, okay, I know. Right, that doesn't, that doesn't help. But like, looking at it from a, a perspective of the number of lives that we're able to touch. Like, honestly, I would say I see one negative comment for every like, couple thousand comments I see. It is a tremendously positive community. Not, I will say, I don't get on, I don't mess with Facebook. I don't mess with Facebook. I've seen some comments on Facebook and on Facebook ADHD stuff. I'm like, I'm not going over there. So I would say stick to, you know, if anybody especially out there wants to talk openly about their, also openly about their ADHD. This is, there are a lot of people who are afraid of their employer finding out, right? I want to talk about my ADHD online, but I don't want my boss to find out, which is where I was, which is why I posted my flow chart on Twitter where my boss didn't follow me and not Instagram or my boss did follow me and that didn't work out anyways. But I tell people two things. One, you know, if you are, you know, don't think anyone would care but are worried that like maybe future, maybe a future employer wouldn't hire me because I have ADHD. You know, again, this is a privilege thing to be able to be like, do you want to work for them? If that's the reason they don't hire you, do you want to work for an employer who did that? But to like, you can make a throwaway account. Make a throwaway Twitter. Go engage in neurodiverse squad. There's a whole Twitter community and ask questions to share stories and be open. You don't have to put your name out there. You don't have to put, you know, any identifying information if you don't want to, people are just as happy to still connect and be vulnerable and have those conversations. So it's really cathartic. I, if you haven't tried talking about your ADHD, I very much recommend it 'cause it's really, it's so validating. It's like, it's crazy how validating it is. - It is so validating and it is, I have found so supportive and just a really positive community and one thing that's been great about all these different conversations is I've learned new things from every person I've talked to and like have a long running list. I mean, of course it's still in my head. I have to actually put it on to paper. Stuff I've learned that I want to implement in my own life. And I'm curious with where you are right now, what is getting you up in the morning? What is exciting for you? What's on the horizon that you are just like chomping at the bit every day to do more work on? - Okay, so well, I just, I was getting up every single morning and doing anti-planar stuff at like hardcore all day, every day, every day, every day. And so now that the books after print is the, it was like less fun, but the getting together some stuff for like promoting, I've been doing like talks and stuff like that. I've got now an upcoming project I'm working on with one of my friends that has to do with my physical disability, Ailer Stand-Lost Syndrome and some content for chronic pain communities because I was like, there's plenty of people making ADHD content now. Where can my voice help serve and bring about change and awareness and destigmatization like in another area. And so chronic pain content is definitely going to be something that I will be, I'm not completely full pivoting or anything like that, but I haven't made, I talk about my mental health a lot. I don't talk about my physical health a lot because it is, it's hard, right? It's really hard and it's sad. And I'm still working on it in therapy. So I think that I'm using my creation skills to process, right? Like I feel a healthy point with my ADHD now where I don't blame myself for very much stuff like at all. If something happens that it's my fault, I can like own that it's my fault, recognize why it happened, recognize which ADHD symptoms probably got in the way, recognize how important is this to me really, how, you know, what am I gonna do moving forward? Do I care about this enough to change it? And like, but there's, I am not having these, emotional breakdowns I used to have all the time about like, oh my God, I'm never gonna accomplish anything because I, you know, can't, get my life together and I'm wasting on my time and I just, you know, blah blah blah. Like I used to have meltdowns all the time. I used to be angry at myself all the time. And I don't hold that like anger and resentment towards myself anymore because I processed so much of that online in real time and people have related to it, which is validating. And I got so much of that out. And now shifting to talking about physical disabilities, um, it's, it's a different can of worms of being a difficult to talk about and process. And so, um, that's another kind of, again, I'm not a full pivot, but, um, definitely going to be a change of pace, but I'm excited because I kind of get to start, um, from the bottom of where, what do I think people need that they don't already have? And that's with ADHD, you know, content and stuff I love still creating that stuff, but there's a lot of it out there now. And the same thing with like the anti-planar, you know, or with whatever, like every, I have 10 billion things I could tell you right now, but everything in my head spirals around, what do I wish there was out there that I don't see? What do I wish existed and how can I go and make that be a thing? So I've got, um, a bunch of stuff that I'm, got in the works, but I, uh, not disclose yet, but I, uh, yeah, I'm really looking forward to making all kinds of new fun stuff. I am so excited for you for this because I think it'll be really great for you to be able to reflect back at these two different journeys and how the first one prepares for this. Yes. I'm like, at least I know what I'm doing now a little bit more. But again, the stumbling out, stumbling your way through things and not, no, like I did not set out to be a content creator. I was a, I know. I was a, and a lot of people on TikTok, a lot of people you'll talk to who, who are the same thing? They made one thing or they made a couple things and they just, and it just happened to take off and they hit home with enough people for them to realize, okay, there is a, a want for my voice, for these types of voices. And so, um, I now have the knowledge that, I know, how people react to things that are made for them. And I think that there's so much, especially marketing advice out there for people on how to pretty much broaden your niche and reach the most people and do the thing. And in reality, it's like be yourself and make stuff that you want, that you want because you are as much as we all love to think we're original, we're totally not. So if you make something for you and you like it, chances are plenty of other people out there like you will like it and they're your target audience. But even if nobody likes it, at least you made something that you like, right? Because there's nothing worse than if you tried to make something that you would not be a, you know, target customer for and you make it and you don't really like it that much. And then nobody else really likes it that much. And you're like, okay, well, I just put all that time into something for what. And so that's why I think that making meaningful content, making meaningful products and designing things with users in mind and real people, right? And not from the, how can I make the most money right off the bat? Like most of my content, like I didn't do anything to monetize. I didn't even have a patron when I started making content content because I love, I think it's so important to give it away for free. And people who want to support you who are able to support you will do so because they appreciate that you're making it free for other people. And so like that's my other, you did not ask me what advice do you have for other creators? But it really is as, you know, people can tell when you're in it for the, as a people can tell when you're in it for the money, but people really appreciate authentic creators who are genuinely trying to make stuff to help people. And then the money just helps support them to keep that kind of stuff going. So, yeah. You're right. I didn't ask, but I'm glad you included it because I think that there are, there are a lot of people though who have those questions. And you know, it's, it's important to at least acknowledge the elephant in the room about where we are right now in this world of content creators and influencers and, and what's being put out on the internet and how it's affecting us. Yeah. And, and finding that stuff that like who inspires you and ask, so I will say this is my other little tidbit of best advice I could give with the anti planner because I found my old, I found my old notebook actually and I took people like, how did you come up with the idea? I thought to myself like, what is something that I like how this is supposed, what this is supposed to do, but I'm not doing it, right? And, and what types of products like this have I engaged with? What do I like about them and what don't I like about them? So I have pages on pages of products that I like or that I wanted to like, but I gave up on or I never wrote in, you know, and it's like, why didn't I write in this? I'm like, because it was a soft cover and I hate having to hold books open and write in them. I hate that. I won't do it. I love the person who made this. I bought it. I never touched it and that is why. And so when it came time to make a product, I'm like, why would I put someone through that? Right? Well, I don't want that reaction to my things. Sure. I don't know. Do I know for a fact that other people hate this as much as me? No. But like, I would want it to be, you know, this. And so it's really interesting to look at what are people doing? What about it is working for you, but what about it? Do you really not like? And what can you make that just gets rid of those things that you don't like about, you know, that other content? And so that way we can all decrease the suck of making products that are tailored that will work for us. And by eliminating that, which does not serve us. I have to ask because of all the people I've interviewed, you've been diagnosed the longest and your role as a content creator and kind of being immersed in this for as long as you have been. I want to wrap up the conversation by asking, you know, we're in the midst of ADHD awareness month. What is something that the general public thinks they know or is a stereotype that you still see floating around that you really wish you could change? Can you say it one more time? You were talking and I was like, oh, did I already, I was thinking while you were talking, do it again. Sorry. I'm not sure. When you look at how society views ADHD, what is a stereotype you would like to change or something that people just have a misconception about that you are like, yeah, no, that's not it. We got to fix this. I got it. I got it. I got it. I'm sure that there have been plenty of people who have touched on right that like ADHD is not just hyper little boys. This is why a lot of women go on, you know, under diagnosed. Can I trust that other people have had that conversation so I can talk about something? Okay, cool. I was like, if no one's talked on it, I will touch on that. But I have a feeling that it has been brought up. I would love to talk about ADHD in the workplace. I think that that is a huge area that is now being being broached a bit more but had not been for a long time. I'm doing, you know, internal talks at a lot of these neurodiversity like employee resource groups, which is like awesome. What an excellent thing that exists now that is very new that did not used to be there when I was, you know, working in corporate America. But along with that comes the knowledge of how well we can thrive when we are put in environments with an understanding supervisor who does not expect the exact same things as they do from neurotypical employees because the, especially the again, I can't, I can't generalize everything. But in my experience working in corporate America, there is a lot of the, you know, you show up at this time, you get your button, the chair, you look like you're busy, even if you're, you know, done with your stuff and you reply to emails, but, you know, within this window of time and you get your time she did on, like there's so much expectations and scheduling and admin work and bosses always love having me because I, when you put me in a meeting, any kind of brainstorming meeting, I am running that thing. I'm running laps around everybody as far as how many ideas I can crank out, you know, and other people on the team, you know, we're very like enthusiastic. We can get people excited. We love doing project kickoffs and that kind of stuff, but the executing, right? And the follow through or the communication or the admin and the like that stuff starts to fall apart. And I just want to draw attention to the fact that like people are, whether they realize it or not, right, reaping the benefits of ADHD employees having those differences, having those thinking out of the box, like bonus features, you know, but they view them as bonus features that need to be included along with the entire rest of the, you know, DVD kit or whatever, right, versus DVDs, I'm dating myself there. But the reality is, is like it's in the same way that it would be unfair for you to be angry at a neurotypical for not having creative out of the box thinking skills, right? If you were mad at them all the time, for them not having this particular set of skills that not everybody has, right? Because it is not considered like a essential job function, right? Where when you understand where ADHD employees like strengths come, and I think the big thing here, sorry, I'm weaving a little bit here, but with bosses, I think the fear, I'm, (imitates farting) the reason why I think this is challenging for bosses, is because you like my rewind. The reason I think that this is particularly challenging for bosses is because they are afraid of their employees, and their employees judgment, and their employees going, why does this person get special treatment? Why does this person not have to do this? Why does this person get help with something? I don't like doing that. Can I have help with that? And this fear of the judgment of the people on your team, determining the amount of assistance and accommodation that you are willing to give to someone who is struggling, because you are worried about the backlash that you may face, and the same way with any accommodations that work for me, where I was like, oh, well, we would love to give you that, but then we have to give that to everybody. I'm like, that's not what an accommodation is though. And they're like, well, we, pretty much, I don't wanna have to explain it. I don't wanna have to deal with anybody. And so like, being a big, big, put it on your big kick pants here. And like, I think for a lot of managers, hopefully rising to the challenge of stepping up and knowing what a big, huge impact, you're gonna be able to have on a employees, you know, life and job and career and happiness and impact on your team when you start to see them for what they are, which is a team member. Everyone on your soccer team can't play all of the positions. You know, like, that's not your skill set, right? You are a part of a team. And so I think that eradicating the notion that everybody needs to be good at everything and you need to fix your weaknesses and everybody else just needs to suck it up. It's just kind of a, that was, again, round of out answer. I would love to see the next wave of ADHD change coming from, 'cause I think the destigmatization, I think we're doing a really good job with that. I think that there's a lot of people who don't feel like, talking about ADHD isn't weird. You know, it doesn't feel odd. Talking about therapy doesn't feel odd for a lot of people. I, just casual, you know, conversation topics now, for a lot of people, but I do think that permeating the workplace is the next step because we spend a lot of our time at work and more understanding bosses will make for happier employees, which will make for everybody's lives being better and more awesome. And my cat is just begging me for attention. So anyways. - Oh, oh, that is a big kiddie. - His name is, who is this? - His cat. (laughs) - Hi cat. I have to lock mine out of the room 'cause she will just be all over here. She's made an appearance in a few of these episodes. - Oh, okay. - Yeah, so the long story short, workplace stuff, it's gonna be good, it's gonna be big, but yeah. We're really like, honestly, people with ADHD have talent skill sets that I think just need to be examined further because people don't always even necessarily realize how their team could benefit from having an outside perspective, but that involves a lot of open mindedness. And so that's the challenge. So let's hope that some people rise to the occasion. - I love that answer. I can look back at my career and the many places I've worked, the many places I've worked. And many of which I left because, well, from rejection-sensitive dysphoria and rumination and fear of disappointing people. And my goodness, if one manager could learn that you need to stop sending out unannounced calendar invites without an agenda, just tell me everything is okay. Otherwise, I'm gonna spend the time in between getting the notification and the meeting, plotting my next path in life because I'm assuming I'm being fired or something a lot. - Literally, I have that exact thing as an accommodation in my ADHD in the workplace talk because my manager would schedule quick chats, meeting invites for later in the day with no context. Unlike a Friday afternoon, right? And my brains just scream, I'm gonna get fired. I'm gonna get fired. And it happened a couple times and it was like, oh, hey, so I wanna do this project kick off. And I'm like, can you call these meetings, project kickoffs or whatever? Like, can you give me some sort of context? And he was like, why? And I go, 'cause I think I'm gonna get fired. And he goes, why would you think you're gonna get fired? I'm like, I don't know, a lifetime of experience, right? Like, I've been fired from multiple jobs. And it's always typically been about like coming in late or me not responding to someone's email fast enough and then them telling on me to my boss, right? And so I don't, I felt like that it was coming. I was just waiting for it to drop and then, you know, so but I had to say a couple times like, hey, this is genuinely something that when this happens, I lose hours of my day. I am sitting at my desk, I'm not working. I am racking my brain for every mistake that I have made that could have possibly led to us having this meeting. What did I do wrong, right? And I'm using that time. Like, you're paying me for that time that I am not working. I am just sitting here anxious. And so, and he stops. He stopped doing that. And I was like, I could just ask, I could just ask you to not eagrant it. He was a good boss. But like, I didn't realize that like that in itself is an accommodation, right? Like recognizing that even though what's the pernay brown of empathy is not understanding what it's like to walk in someone's shoes, it's listening to someone talk about what it's like in their shoes and believing them even when it doesn't align with your own personal experiences. And like, I love that so much, but it's true at that because he did not understand why a meeting called Quick Chat would trigger me into this like horrifying, you know, anxious whirlwind. But respected anyway. And it's like, that's an easy enough change for me to just go ahead and not serve that on your plate for no reason. So I think that there is like a whole, or even when it came to like time sheets, right? I would have past employers who would ask about, hey, where's your time sheet? Hey, your time sheet's not in. Hey, get in your time sheet. And he would come and just be like, hey, so I noticed your time sheet's not in yet. Is there anything I can do to help out? And I sometimes would go, well, actually, I'm missing this project number from this client and I asked them about it last week. And they didn't answer and I didn't follow up. And he'd be like, okay, hang on one sec. And then would go and then two minutes later, he'd come back and be like, here's the project number. And I'm like, thank you. And like, and I'd go and do it. And sometimes it was just, oh, no, you know what? I got it. And I would go and do it. And but it always came from this feeling where now I am feeling supported. As I go and fill in my late time sheet, I am not feeling lectured. I am not feeling defensive. I am not feeling like these big negative emotions, like it's so silly how so people don't even think about time sheets necessarily, right? And unless I talk about time sheets, people they need to be like, ugh, but but but but having just such a tiny change because most of the time, right? Oh, hey, do you need anything for me? I'm like, nope, I got it. But like the way that that conversation felt to me as an ADHD employee and how easy it was, what an easy way to check in with someone in the same number of words it takes to say, hey, why isn't your time sheet in? Like, anyway, yeah, I'm excited to see the future of ADHD in the workplace. So we need to do like a stay tuned recap a couple of years down the line and be like, so how did all that pan out? (laughs) - Yes, absolutely. And I am sure that we could crowdsource plenty of things for you to add to the ADHD in the workplace stuff that you've been working on. But I totally agree with you. It's where we need the biggest change because we are valuable and we bring so much to the team and we just have to get everybody else on board. And I'm so appreciative one of your time today, but two of like just the energy you put out into this community, not just for people who have ADHD, but for all of the people who love us and live with us and our friends with us are work with us because all of that matters. You know, the people who see your stuff and are engaging with it, whether they have ADHD or not, like it's just opening up their minds a little bit more. So like that vulnerability of putting that out there and taking that on, thank you because I'm sure some days it feels like a heavy load, but know how much good it's doing truly. - Thank you so much. I just, I can't believe that this is my life. I like, it's very strange to me how someone, you know, I grew up being bullied for being annoying and talking about myself too much. And now all I do is talk about myself on the internet. That's my job and I'm killing it. (laughs) And you know, but that's just, just, you know, when people are like, forget the haters, I was like, no, let them fuel you. You know, I'm a, this is a, the spite driven person, but I, the things that you're good at, storytelling and and being open about my feelings are strengths that I didn't realize were strengths. I'd been told that they were weaknesses and So I think that everybody can maybe have some perspective of the things that you've been told about yourself that are Floss and you know, maybe ask yourself if those aren't Bugs, maybe they're features, right? I like that. That's a great way to go out So Danny, thank you so much. Enjoy the rest of ADHD awareness month and we will catch up with you in Dallas in November and kind of get the lowdown on the next stuff that's happening with you. Absolutely. Thank you so much again A huge thank you to Danny Donovan for joining me on refocus together Remember if you're heading to the International Conference on ADHD in Dallas this November make sure to stop by the Refocus booth where I'll be giving away a limited number of vouchers for signed copies of Danny's upcoming book the anti-planar There are so many people to thank for making refocus together happen the entire team at ADHD online Zach Booger, Dr. Randall Dutler, Tim Gutwald, Keith Brofie, my teammates Keith Boswell, Suzanne Spruitt, Claudia Gotti, Melanie Mile, Paul Owen, Kirsten Pip, Sissy Yee, Trisha Merchandani, Lauren Radley, Cory Kernie and Mason Nellie and the team at Dexia, Hector and Kenneth and the team at snack media, Cameron Sterling and Candace Lefke, Camilla Eden, Lauren Terry Sarah Galbard, Phil Rodiman, Jake Beaver and Sarah Platonitis Our theme music was created by Lewis Englis a songwriter and composer based in Perth, Australia Who is diagnosed with ADHD in 2020 at the age of 39 To find out more about refocus together or to share your story with me head over to ADHDOnline.com and check out the ADHD Awareness Month page which highlights this project as well as each day's episode after they've been released You can also find out more by following along on social @linceagensel and @refocuspod