Dance Backgrounds with John Early | 100

Once the movie came out, what's the trailer came out? Gay guys on Twitter, I mean. Gay guys on Twitter, you can count them for anything. -Anything. -My God. -They were just. -They would scream, say, "I'm the opening of an envelope." They'd be like, "Give us love!" "Boos, I was done. Yes, girl!" -Ate that. -Someone doesn't need that. -Someone doesn't need it. -No. -Someone who's just too much love. -I've got gay guys in push-work that I feed. Like, they need to see my photos. -Hi, I'm Peyton. -I'm Hunter. -And this is, let me say this from higher ground. -Okay, we've had a great show today. -Thank God. -We are. -Nothing's even happened yet, and we're already up. -I know, but art so much has happened spiritually, so much has happened. -Yeah. -Because this morning, I watched. I rented Maddie Secret, and I watched the dance scene. -Oh. -Because it's going to do. -Who do we have with us? -5, 6, 7, 8. -John Early. -And Death John. -Hahaha. -Hahaha. -Which I've never done. -Yeah, have you tried, though? -It's so. I have back issues. Like, I've had three microdiscectomies on my L5S1. -Oh, I don't even know what that is. -You're just a lot of vision series. -The lowest disc. I know, I know. It's the lowest disc on the spine. -Okay. -And I've had her nations there. But I did dream before these back surgeries. I had this fantasy where I was going to tell. When I had my regular variety show, I was going to announce at the top of the year that by the end of the year, I was going to do a death drop. -Oh. -And then I was going to spend the whole year training. And then I had back surgeries. -So that's why. -Yeah. -Glad to be able to be in the body, everyone. -Yeah, really? -You're like, so no. I don't do that, and it's actually a sort of subject for me. -Yeah, thanks for bringing that. -Sorry. We have a question for you. I guess everyone that comes on the show, but are you a lover or a hater? -I'm a lover. -Yeah, for sure. -That's how they're coming. -Yeah. I mean, I'm a total crank, too. Two things to be true. -Not to take it there immediately, but I actually do think, in some ways, that's what the movie is about in a meta way. It's like both sides of myself, the lover and the hater, being forced into the same room and dueling it out. Have you always been a lover or are you born a lover? -Yeah. -I guess I just always feel like when I think of comics. It's a spectrum. Comedy is a spectrum, by the way. Kinsey scale of comedy. I do think there has to be a little bit of neuroses, anxiety, and occasionally some hatred in the hater and the hater, which makes you usually a good critic or someone who can observe people well. -Yes. -Because you get the human experience pretty well, I would say. -Thank you. -Hey, you're welcome. -Well, I get, I would say, very narrow cross-section of the human experience somewhat well. But I think, you know, the harder you hate, the more intense you must be, love and deep down. You know what I mean? And I think that's probably what's going on in me. -Yeah. This is actually therapy. We're talking about it. It's keeping the score. We're doing a lot of work. -Okay, I want to talk about where you just were or are you about to go next. -If you feel safe talking about it. -Well, I can't reveal where I'm going. -It's too personal. -That's private. -But I am traveling internationally. Now, wait, is this metaphor or is this literal? -No, this is literal. This is the passport. -Yes. -This is the passport. -I'm traveling internationally. -There we go. -And I had to have my passport shift from LA. It didn't come in time because of the storm that didn't happen. -Right. Okay, it's not a little bit. -It's not in some areas. -It was really, okay, once you are arguing with a 14-pound poodle mix that she has a pee in the rain, then yeah, it's stormed. It's stormed in my house. I'll say that. -Okay. -Emotionally and literally. -Yeah. -It was what she hates the rain. -She hates the rain. She hates the rain. She's bossy. She's a diva. -I don't know where she gets it from. -I was hoping for a real true. I think a very California thing about me and I want to talk about your-- -Your Kelly? -I'm from LA, girl. -I didn't know. -33 tattooed on my-- too much information on my body. -Too much information on my body. -Wow. -But you're based in LA, normally. -Yeah. -We were originally going to have you in the LA office. -Oh, yeah. -So much elevom as home. -Yeah, we're going to have you open our mother's home. -No, is she going to put the Maddie Seeker on the top 10? -She better. -I don't think it is 10, but it's his favorite movies of the year. It's a 20. -I'll do everything I can. We'll do everything in our power. -Yeah. -I swear to God, I do know the truth. -It's so embarrassing. -What? -When he dropped the most recent thing, which was maybe like books or songs or something, I saw the graphic going around. And I was like, maybe that means he also did movies. And I swear to God, I looked. I checked. -Well, of course. -That's crazy. -I walked around and I looked for evidence. -There's no way. -It's kind of the way you said that. -It's like, oh, it's serious. -Oh, shit. -It's a loom. -But I think it opened. -That makes sense. -That makes sense. -If you care about something, you want President Barack Obama to know about it. -It's a cozy. -Yeah, yeah. It would be so shocking. It would be insane. -But it also wouldn't be because it's like when he put FOK on one of his legs. -Exactly. -Yes. -Oh, he gets it. -This is a session listener, too. He listens to Sessa. -Right. -Is there a team of your people -- -That's above our head. -Sure. -I don't know. -Yeah. -Can I produce her answer? No, I'm kidding. -Oh, but all that we've heard is that he does them himself. -Yes. -Okay. -And they're like, they're firm about that. -Okay. -Yeah. -They don't want people to think that it's a -- -It's not up. -It's not up. -It's not up. -It's not too Gen Z girls. They're like, what Gen Z bisexual? I was like, it's me. -Yeah. -Okay, wait, but you live in LA now, have lived in the Valley for a while. -Yes. -Do you feel like beholden to the city? Do you feel like an anchoring in it? Or is it just like the industry that you happen to work in? -I still don't feel quite -- I never latched with LA. I latched fully with New York. -Yeah. -You know, it's where I had my little, you know, my Felicity first 10 years, you know. And I don't know. My relationship to LA is so like, it's so GPS-based. Like, I got there with the phone, you know. So it's like, I've basically been like following the GPS. And like, I've never fully like absorbed the city. I'm just like, I like land. I never know where I am. -Yeah. -Where and when I'm there. But I've been totally enchanted by it, too. I feel a lot of ambivalence about LA, about the cars, the, you know. I mean, I, a huge part of my, like, measure of a good city is like access to cinema. -You know, and that's why I love New York. You can literally every single day pull up screenslate.com. You know, and go to a revival house, you know, and see any movie, any old movie. It's just like, it's amazing. And all the theaters are like close to each other. It's just, I don't know, it's so easy. LA, the birthplace of cinema. -Mm-hmm. -It's impossible. You have to go to Beverly Hills and you spend nine hours parking in a parking garage in a mall. And you're just like, and it just always feels like you're going to get shot. -And I've always had that. I came out there with my clothes. -I know. -It's so mass shooting. Like whenever I'm in one of those. That's just what, that's what I mean. Like whenever you're in, I don't feel like I'm going to get shot at the Angelica. -Well, but on the front. -No, when you go to the grove. -Yeah. -But when you go to the grove. -I have a thing. And I think it comes from movies with parking garages. -Yeah. -A parking garage. Like that's where a shootout happens. -Exactly. -That's not where I go to park. -I literally, no, no, no. -I'll walk before I park a parking garage. -Yeah. -And it's so expensive. And you have to get validation. And I'm usually high. -I'll say it. -And I don't want to, it's just like, I go, I get all the way through. And then I find out I didn't validate it. I don't know. I don't know. -I have ambivalence about LA. But to go back to what I was saying. I also, as I hope you can tell by the movie, not to bring it there. -I promise I'm not trying to wedge it in. -No, no. -No, go ahead. -I really not. I really not. I've talked enough about it. The people are sick of it. But I am enchanted by it. It is a very, it's a very kind of haunted place. And I had an, I grew up in Tennessee. I grew up, landlocked. -Which was hard. -I see your Tennessee and I raise you Oklahoma. -Oh. -Not the trucker. -Are you Oklahoma? -Yeah. -Flat. -Yeah, yeah, yeah. -It's like totally flat. -No, our biggest mountain is turkey mountain. Which is not even a mountain, it's a mesa. -It's called turkey mountain. -Mm-hmm. -Wow. -That's so crazy. What is the most Tennessee thing about you? -I mean, like, I don't know. I love the mountains and I love biscuits. I love biscuits and gravy, y'all. -I love your character work. -Oh. -You're great skin by the way. -Thank you. -Wow. -Thank you. When I shave, I look like an infant. -I want that appeal. -Yeah. -I'll let you know how it works. -Really? That's cool. -Yeah, thanks. -Like, I needed that, actually. -That's a surprise. -They know when you need it. -Yeah, both of them. -Seriously. But this woman by my age, but thank you, I was like trying to She was like, well, they I did me last week and I'm 40. I was like, oh, wait, who is she? - Just a woman. - That's a woman. - I was like, yeah, that's right. - Who is she? - That's a woman there. I was like, just sort of know they didn't. I can see that, that's not true. Okay, sorry, but I was talking about actresses because famously, you ran a Tony Colette. - No. - Yeah, Tony Colette, fan site. - Yeah. - Someone had to. - Someone had to do. - Literally, someone had to. - Literally, you stepped up to the point. - But literally, someone had to. - That was actually my reasoning. I'm not kidding. - Oh, that was sweet. - I was, as a huge fan of hers, I was frequently going. I mean, it's so sweet to think about the websites we went to in the early internet. - Yeah. - But I would go to like, Tony Colette Pearl in the shell. And then after that, it was Tony Colette as good as Dancing Queen. These were fan sites, okay. And then she was like, the person who ran that fan site was like, I can't do this anymore. - I'm really good. (laughter) - The club shall make up her day. - I might say capacity. - I can't take this on anymore. - But she was like, I need, she was, if you're interested in taking this over, let me know and I'll like hand you the keys. They're all like, you know, give you all my, like, I don't know. - Perfloppy bills? - Yeah, I don't know. Whatever. - Yeah, hard drive, okay. - And I was like, I felt so called. And I had no experience with websites with HTML. And he said, cases back then, yeah, we were all making it up. (laughter) - But I was like, here we go. I don't know, I just was like, let's fucking go. - How old are you? - 11. - Right. (laughter) Right. That is the proper age to run a fan site. Were you into like fan fake? Was I kind of more, or just being a fan? - No, no. - I mean, I had a healthy, erotic imagination, but I didn't get into like fan fake stuff. But no, it was, it was Tony all the way. - Yeah. - There was something on my fandom that was also about me trying to seem older, you know. So it was very like, yes, I like this. Have you seen Muriel's wedding? Like, you know, and I was like very, you know, it was a very pretentious choice at age 11. - No, Tony Collette, you said I'm not like the other girls. - Yeah, no. - Everyone didn't go. - Yeah, I mean, so there's no one guess what? I'm a Tony Collette. - It's very big for me. It's very big for me. - He was a kid that like, what were you like as a kid? Were you like all strict and serious like that? - Kind of. Like, you know, I always wanted to, I told my parents very early on, I wanted an oriental rug sweater is how I said it then. Not now. - What police? - Sorry, I'm sorry, it's coming in through. - No, your feet hurt, yeah. - That's what I, you know, like, I wanted like a kind of maroon burgundy, like, you know, like kind of, I wanted like, I dream to, like before I knew I was gay, it was like I was imagining a kind of like, dusty velvet curtains and like, you know, Judy Garland records. And, you know, it's like, I didn't know. - I didn't know. - But you were imagining. - Yeah, and then Tony Collette, literally. One, that's why I famously stopped doing the website was because I was like, oh my god, this is kind of gay. And this is so flagrant because I was literally telling my friends, I was like, sign the guest book, we can't, like I was like, telling my teachers. I was, I was so evangelical about her. And then I was like, and I think it was like Connie and Carla came out to remember that with Nea Vardola's fallout, fallout to my big fat Greek wedding. Where they play like, where it's like some like an hop but there's like women who pretend to be drag queens. And then I was like, oh no, oh no. And I was like, I have to stop doing this. And then I did the same thing. I said, if anyone wants to take over the website, let me know. Oh no, but yeah, so I wanted, I really, I had a very, I spent a lot of time alone as a kid and I watched a lot of movies and I, I really liked being alone. And I was very serious in some ways and very like, like I was very silly, but it was very, it was also very kind of, I was also very authoritative in my sense. I was like, I was like, we're doing a Brady Munch sketch and I'm Jan, obviously, you know. So everyone off book, okay, we just make sure we know our line. Okay, let's go. Curtain's incredible, incredible. How do you feel like that early introduction and sort of understanding a fandom had affected how you think about art, how you think about movies? Well, I mean, I do think you have to be devotional or it really helps to be a kind of like, to be able to like send it, you know, to a actor or a work of art, you know, and to direct, you really have to like submit, you know. And like, you have to give like three years of your life to it and you have to like, I don't know. And you have to, you exhaust yourself so insanely in the process. So I don't know, it, you have, there is like, a kind of religious quality to making a movie. And so I think my fandom increased the wheels for that. Yeah. I'm sorry, I'm having a moment because I'm realizing I'm not wearing earrings. And like my mom would kill me. I mean, something was wrong. Not me just talking about you. I'm just like, I do. Literally historically, one time I got into an accident and my mom was like, I was going to the hospital on FaceTime, my mom goes, oh, where are your earrings? No, I could do not. No, wait, you're a Claremont, where in L.A.? Like Mid City, my dad and like, I don't know. Damn, really? Well, the city and like, yeah, it's Mid City. Like by, like, like, large, male roads area ever. Yeah. Fuck. Oh, yes, yes, of course. Yes, the great. Anyway, so I, so I have trauma. Yeah. Thank you. A24 call me, so I have trauma. And I literally never don't wear earrings. No, I feel for you. It looks good. Sorry, make this about me. I usually have emergency earrings in my purse by changed purses. Oh, no. Fuck, we're fucked. Anyway, I'm going to move through this and we'll move through this together and everything's going to be okay. But I want to ask you, not in a letterbox-y kind of way, but at that age, early, early, John Early. Yep. What were like the-- John Early, yeah. John earlier. John Early? Um, what was like, formative movies for you? Like, what really shaped your young adulthood? Um, you know, Romeo and Michelle, went on American summer, the Brady Bunch movie. Um, and then as I started to become obsessed with Tony Glett, it was like, clock watchers and murals wedding. Chairs. I mean, I love-- I love-- I don't maybe watch clock watchers because of you. Well, I am-- I will take credit for that. Yeah. You should, yeah. I don't-- I think it's-- I think we should all be very-- like, we should let go of culture, let it spread. I do take credit for the clock watchers, I really should. I literally have direct proof. I have an email from the criterion channel-- From Sony. No, I'm so happy with it. They, when I screen that in the pandemic-- sorry, in early COVID, I did an online streaming series with Metrograph. And they-- I remember this. And I was like, can we do clock watchers? Because I happen to know at the time that from Jill Specker, the director, I hunt to down, forced her into friendship. I knew that she had lost her print, because she gave it to a festival in like 2010. They never sent it back. And so I was like, we have to find the sprint. It was like, oh, so COVID made me, yeah. Just like we're like-- Give me something to do. We got to do this. And they helped me track it down. Or they helped the Academy made a print of it from the negatives, whatever. Anyway. And then, when we screened it, Criterion reached out to Metrograph and was like, can you send-- can you put us in touch with Jill Specker? We want to put this in the Criterion channel. So I'm just saying, I'm sorry. That's crazy. No, that's really you. I actually think everyone's entitled to have one thing that's like, well, that was me. I think one thing you're all to be like, that's mine. And you should all credit me every time that's coming up. Sorry. That's so true. But yes, those were the movies. I would say, like, I also, you know, we all have an aunt. Sure. And especially when you're gay. Yeah, when you're gay, you have your government mandated aunt. And in this case, it was actually my aunt. It was my dad's sister. And she was an artist, and she was so-- and she was really-- it's like kind of funky modern art. And she was like the aunt who had a chain smoker. And she had this old Victorian house in Indiana. And she had a dress-up box with her old wedding dress. And I would go to her house and she would let me wear all this shit. And she gave me a box set of Hitchcock when I was eight years old. There's an old. And I was watching the birds and, like, vertigo and psych when I was like-- I didn't really know what was going on, obviously. But I was so-- those movies, anyone can watch them. Any age, any language, you speak. It's like they're so hypnotic. And I was like, I don't know. That had a profound effect on me, too. I love a box of Hitchcock. I know. Oh, my God. Cool, aunt. Did you smoke like crazy? Did you change my voice? Like crazy, yeah. All the baddest, but just do. And aunt, I just never always had a cigarette inside, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she would get us frozen. Me and my sister would get us frozen white castle. And she called them, and she called them. Ready? Bellybombs. Totally. 100%. Totally. Absolutely. And she called her. I'm with her. Sorry, I don't enjoy it. No, no, no. I think watching Hitchcock has a child is, like, the perfect entrance into, like, loving old movies, and thinking that, like, not everything has what you made, like, within the last five years. to feel good and like yes, yes, I watch the birds. when I was like probably about seven or eight and it like completely, and I looked at a bird the same way again. - Oh, truly, I was always like-- - Oh, we stuck in a dog. - Yeah. - Yeah. Yeah, no, that's-- - I just re-watched the birds and I'm having a similar thing. We're just the pigeons, I'm like-- - They're everywhere. - And we're, yeah, we're in New York City, they're everywhere. - Yeah. (upbeat music) - I feel like we didn't do, you opened with dancing and then we skipped right away. - Oh, yeah, you watched that. - We should have stayed right by the dancing. - Let's go right back. - I've never had to, okay. - Let's do your relationship to dancing. Let me actually be the host for once. - Oh. - It's okay. - Let me let me answer first 'cause I know that's gonna take a while. (laughing) To be known is to be loved. Thank you. - Thank you. - Look, Peyton, I would encourage you to listen to Hunter. (laughing) (laughing) She answers. - Hunter slips you a 20 on other than that guy. - Hunter, you dance to me. - I did ballet in modern. - Oh my god. - As a child. - Oh my god. - In school or in a separate. - At Kirby casting in studios. - What? - Yeah. - Yeah. - What is the name? - Kirby. I can't remember Kirby's last name, but I was reading my fourth grade diary recently and I wrote about how he made, I also did voice lessons with him. I did a song from Little Mermaid and I was like, I hope Kirby and my mom date. He's very gay. His name is Kirby. You didn't just say anything more than that. - He had a bob. - And he's the most like hyphenate. - He's gay. (laughing) - He sings an anthem. - Sorry, triple threat. I'm like, what's that? - And then I was like, kind of, I was approaching like going full theater kid and then I was like, I need to take a step back from this for artistic differences. - Yeah. - And it wasn't working. 'Cause I was getting cast in, we think. And-- - In Oklahoma? (laughing) - I mean, not to draw shade. I mean, every city has a community theater. But I'm just like, but the disappointment in that I wasn't getting cast in it, but I'm like, what was going on? - I was young and couldn't sing. - Okay. - But I was going on. (laughing) You call Kirby right now. Get him on the phone. - Were you silent? Or were you silent? - Or were you silent? And thank you for asking. - You were? - You were. - Wait. Okay. - Yeah, no, no, no, no. - We just couldn't sing you were getting cast. - No, just in Kirby Castings, studios, productions. And then also in my school plays at Catholic school. I didn't get the lead in Oklahoma. Would you do it for the Centennial? - Oh, that's so hard. 'Cause I'd take it the lead in Oklahoma. - Oh my gosh. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Every year. - I was hoping we could connect on that part, but. - No. - Oh, I'm sorry. - Yeah, it's okay. - It's, it's Lori. - Yeah. - It's not a good role. (laughing) You want to be Ido Annie. - And you're better for it. - And you're at, too. - 100% of the thing where she decided early on age to be like a serious person and take her career seriously. - Oh, yeah. - I don't know this play shit. (laughing) - The focus on the long-term goal. - Yeah. - I said yeah, then I pivoted. I started writing short stories and screenplays in my spare time. - Oh, completely crazy. - That's sweet. - Dance. - Wow. - In a spotlight hit, sir. - Oh, that's exciting. (laughing) - We had the light. - Yeah, yeah. (laughing) - It all goes back to 1994. - No, but I was, I danced since I was like six. I was in an academy. That was like a part-time job. - Say the name. - Debbie Allen Dance cut me. And everyone else is like on tour with Madonna. Like the real dancers. And I was like, I'm trying to express myself. But I was like a train, like Saturdays, too. - Do you know Marilyn Clark Studios? Where we shot the Maddie Secret Dance scenes? - No, where we were. - Yeah, I'm sure Debbie Allen has her own studios. - She does have her own studios. She's on the up and up. I hope it works out for her. But she, but it's moved a lot, actually. They used to be in Culver City, which is where I went to middle school. So I could just like walk to dance. - He doesn't know where he doesn't know where they're going. - Culver City, I know where Culver City is. Nine or two, three, oh. (laughing) - Yeah, anyway, I danced pretty much like my entire life. And I think the reason I, I was a really good dancer and it was a gateway drug to musical theater. But I always was like, I'm not like a musical theater. I'm just the dancer. - Yeah. - Like that became my personality. I'd be like, I'm different than the musical theater. - Right, right. And it's like, it's like exactly who I am now today, it's still. - Wait, that's so funny. I feel like there is a, that for you, you not wanting like rejecting contemporary actresses, but like wanting to go on on Tony Colette. - Yeah. - And me not being a fan of Twilight because I thought Robert Patton and I, when we eventually got together, it would be really awkward if I was a big fan. - Yeah. - But I like, I think that that's like such an interesting commonality about wanting to be taken seriously. - Yeah. - And kind of performing your own artistic series. - I love the way, I just want to set those three situations up and hundreds of millions of, why I didn't watch Twilight actually. (laughing) - Very, just a clear line, as you had to do that. But literally, I remember watching the showgirls, you call the school a Caprilyer, recreating that scene. And showgirls obviously as a lesbian is huge for me. - Yes, yes. - Turn me out. - Okay. - But dancer. (laughing) - But she's like, when she's having that really horny, when they're having lunch. - Yeah. - And they're having that really horny conversation. You guys did them that too. - I know, then Ariana Grande. - Oh yeah, she loves that. - Yeah. - She's such a theater kid. Oh my God. But I feel like the recreation of that was like, I was watching it laughing and then also being like, oh, they're serious mirrors, actually. - Oh yeah, oh, thank you. Thank you. - You're a dancer, you're natural. - Thank you. That was a miracle that we could do it. Because obviously, I mean, because we really, like, we chose the scene before we'd like, test it to see. (laughing) - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And the joke of it was always that we were going to do it. I never wanted the dancing to look bad. Like, that's so profoundly unfunny to me. - Yeah. - It's like, it's like the joke was always that that really hitting it. - Yeah. - And like, kind of the audacity to actually learn the choreography. But we just, it's so sweet. We like, watch that scene over and over again. We got like a rehearsal space Williamsburg. And like, because those girls, the cocoon central dance team, Sunita Monty, isn't there by the way? - I'm Charlie Medellin, Eleanor Pianta. All Indie Queens. Okay, anyway, moving on. But they're a little dance troupe. And we got this like rehearsal space and just like, watch it over and just learned it on the computer and, you know, I don't know. - That's really impressive. - That's a special, that's so like, sleepover. - It was, it was very sleepover. - And this guy made the wig for me for $50. It was like a lace front wig that he died and styled, like Nomi and my friend who I worked with at the time made me the outfit. And like, it was very, and then we shot it at the directors, like middle school in New Jersey. - Yeah, yeah. - And the way we got the space was the teacher, his old drama teacher was like, I'll do like a kind of technical theater lesson with my kids where it's like, they have to like, recreate the lighting as much as possible from showgirls in the auditorium. - So you're shaping young minds. - Well, that's a part of everything, ain't it? - You didn't know that. - But yeah, it was, it was so sweet. - It was like the first thing I thought of when I was watching the Maddie secret dancing. - Yes, yes. - Just those scenes in general also. - And you could say it all started there because it was, you know, it's like, my dream was always, and I know I always knew I would never achieve this dream. But I was always like, I would love to, I wish someone would give you the money to do a full-length showgirls shot for shot, like Gus Van Sant doing Psycho, you know. (laughing) But of course, there's no industry in place for something like that anymore. So I don't know, this was a way of kind of doing a low budget version of showgirls, you know, like a shoestring showgirls. - Did you expect that one viral show? Like did you expect that to go viral at one moment? - No, I was very naive about, I mean like, I obviously wanted the dance sequence to be like, dazzling and kind of like, again, like, for people to be like, oh my God, in this like tiny little handmade movie, they've done like a full dance scene, like that was, that was always part of the gag of the movie. But I somehow forgot that like, like I was like, I thought the movie was over once it had gone through theaters. And then I forgot of course, we just, all our entire lives are online. And then once it came out on streaming, I was like, oh right, now it's like something that people can like grab from and grab from. Grab from, I don't know what you call it. But yeah, I actually kind of was shocked. - It was a lovely little second life, I feel. - I know, it was so sweet. - Tell us about like shooting that, 'cause there's so many cuts that seem so complicated, but so. - Okay, that we shot that in the last week. Danielle Polanco was a choreographer who, you know, was in like the B-Day camp. - Oh, period. - She's in the get me body video. She's in check on it. - Oh wow. - She's the, - Oh, you never go in high places. - Touch. - Yeah. - No. - The touch, she's the touch girl in that omaret. They're like, - Touch, I love them, oh my god. - Touch. - She's the girl. She's the girl that, they're like, he's like flirting with her. It's very like the way you make me feel, you know? Um, but she is a god. - Yeah. - Cool. - And I was like asking around for choreographers, 'cause it's like everyone else was someone I knew, every department had, every cast member, you know? And, but the choreographer was like, we need it to be good. And like all the choreography I see right now, all contemporary choreography has that like, that disease of like. - Tape McGregor, the tick talk of it all. - Yes. Yes, and yes. And it's like, it's all about, I would say, virtuosity. Like, it's all about how fast can, how many moves can I do in four seconds? Yeah. You know, and it's not about soul. You know, it's like there's no character to the movement. They're like every choreographer, it's like looks the same. Like everything's so like insanely athletic. Even the best choreography right now, I still feel like there's something like sort of like. But it's still just like, I don't know, she, and she really has something to require through, which is like. It's like a little more accessible and it needed to be for like me to, to plug into that. So we're clear. Yeah. My hips only opened so wide. But it's also like, there's like a kind of, you know, I was like, I wanted it to be kind of fussyish. And I wanted those scenes to also, you know, to be subtly scary, you know, for it to feel like the queer dance class. Like, like the engine is getting, like, pulled into the dark, I know literally. And, and you know, because it is, it is like, it becomes as she goes deeper into those classes. She, that's where she crosses the threshold into the second half of the movie. But, um, and so yeah, it needs to be a little freaky. And I feel like Daniel does that. And she was so cool. I took her out to dinner and I was like, I was like, I was like, it is so cheap. I was like, we have no money. And she was like, I like art. She said that to me. She said that to me. She was like, I don't care. She was like, I, she had just done all that Addison Ray choreography. Oh, it's just, you know what's crazy? I was just going to bring up the part only person right now. We talk about the salon and podcast. Yeah. That I really think something great. I'm so, I'm a big lover until it comes to dance. Yeah. It comes to feedback. And Addison Ray, not to quote Lord, it's so yummy to see someone sew in their body. But it really is. She's such a, like, um, and it's not about accessibility. I think with her, even though, yeah, you probably could mirror the movement. Yeah. But she moves in a way that's so, it feels so human. It feels so natural. It feels like storytelling, breaking every move up until like a distinct, like thing that you hit. Yeah. Like, it's very fluid with her. Yeah. It's really, she's amazing. And Danielle did a lot of that choreography. Pat checks out cool. And she had just done that. And I was like, well, you do a $4 movie. And a bus fare. I got a bus ticket literally in a light and a bus ticket. Yeah, look at that. But she was so cool. And she was like, my favorite movie is The Bad Seed. I was like, oh, my God. She was like, I totally get what you're doing. I was like, what? Like, I didn't bring that movie. That movie is not connected to my movie. Yeah. But it is. It does have an old Hollywood style. And like, in a camp quality that she just totally got. And I was like, and then of course, she also plays the choreographer. Yeah. Oh, right, right, right. She's amazing. Yeah. You have a great, the dancers are fantastic in that. And she brought most of them in. And they're like, they literally like were on the Renaissance tour. And they danced on the circus tour. Like, I mean, it was surreal. It was so, I was very moved by that. I love that. But it also speaks to kind of what we talked about before. It's like the seriousness of that scene. And how it goes on for a long time. But like, that is part of its appeal. That's part of what makes it so like what a big set piece to me. Yeah. Because like, it's really hard. I don't think you speak a little too. In a good way. Like, you feel that. And you feel that. You hopefully feel like her. You're like, you're like, you're getting exhausted. Yeah. But yeah, it's, I really, like in the script, it says like, you know, because you can't, it's not like I'm, you can't write the choreography. Like, you know, in the stage directions, I'm like, I'm like, it will be five to eight minutes. And the finances would be like, really? I was like, yes. Like, I was like, it really does have to be long. Like, it just has to be, there's just, it's hard in an instant. It's hard in an indie and like a micro budget indeed to, to do set pieces. Yeah. To do like the thing, like, like movies just have dream ballets, you know, and like, I, I wanted to figure out like an indie way to do like a dream ballet. Movies just have budget. Yeah. They just have, they just have money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love, I love art. Because like, that's what it's going to be right now. I also really want to talk about, um, your relationship with Capronat. And I feel like there's something, it's so two things that are really important. One is serious. One is unserious. The unserious one is you guys always raise a really important point, which is the sexual tension between a lesbian and a gay guy. It is obviously like the, the ongoing bed that you guys have done before, but it's so fun, the way that you really like can know and play with each other in that way. And also just like, you create a partnership in general. I just want to hear you like, talk about how long standing it's been. You guys know each other since what, 24 early, 2012. Oh, wow. Yeah. Oh, sorry. I meant 24 years old. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 24. That's one of those. Yeah. Because I'm 26 now. Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We met when we were 24 doing comedy and, you know, and we were casting our kind of mutual friends short film, and we didn't really know each other. And you know, I mean, I was so shocked that there was someone my age who was, you know, performing on the level of ease and genius that she was. I mean, it was so crazy. And then I knew her. And then I was like, triply quadruply shocked that she liked me. Yeah. And I was like, it was so crazy. And I don't know. We just immediately, we had a very, like, there was a real clear overlap in our shared sensibility, a lot of those, and a lot of those influences are put directly into the movie. But yeah, I don't know, we have like, there's like always kind of a, I would say most of what we do comes out of a desire to like act in a certain style. You know, it's like, we watch a movie and we're like, I want to do that. I want to do that. You know, and I would say in the case of Maddie's secret, like, I was, I've always been dying to do a kind of single white female thing with her. We used to, we've always talked about doing like multiple single white female style sketches where like, it switches who's the obsessed one, you know, obsessed with. And yeah, and I've always wanted to do one where I'm obsessed with Kate. And then suddenly I have the her crew. Yeah, yeah. Don't need to. And I'm like, do you like it? I kind of love it anyway, but this, I was, I'm always trying to wedge that dynamic into every project. And she actually wasn't, you know, I set out trying to write for my friends and for myself in this movie. And I, there was a long time before, and I didn't know what she would do for a while. And then I was listening to this song for, I wrote a lot of this movie to the shaft soundtrack as you can probably tell by the score. And I got to this one song, Do Your Thing, which was like, actually a single. Anyway, I'll pause for you guys to, so guys, and then come back when you're ready. And by the way, the original is like a 19 minute song in the movie and on the original soundtrack. But it's really like, it's really dark, and that's where the idea for the dance class came from. And when I was listening to that song, I had this image. There was no character. Their Kate was not in the movie. And then I had this image of Kate banging on the glass. And I was like, oh my God, like, I mean, I'm not a woo-woo person, but this, this movie made me more like woo-woo because I was like, I had the experience while writing it where it was like, you know, what you hope for is like images just kind of coming up from the unconscious and I picture Kate being like, and I was like, oh my God. She sneaks into the dream and I was like, oh my God, like, I was like, and then she takes her to a queer dance class. You know, because I was like, I was really one, I was like, a queer dance class. That's always what's on the other mind, though. I was like, is that so raping? It's like, yeah. It was, like, that's the reason. But yeah, it was like, I wanted there to be a form of exercise in the movie because every eating disorder TV movie has a kind of exercise that pushes them over the edge. Yeah. But I wanted it to feel so much of exercise just feels so 80s and diet culture feels like 90s, 90s. Yeah. You know. Or Tumblr really on. Yeah. Yes. Yes. We grew up on. You know. We're all the same age. We're all the same grade. Yeah. But the glass on the camera breaks. But, but you know, I don't know, so I was like, well, it's the genre that I was pulling from is very 80s and 90s, the eating disorder TV movie. And so I was like, what could be a form of exercise that feels like totally of today? And I, and I was, and there are, there are queer dance classes. Yeah. And I've heard of them. I've heard of them. And I imagine New York. Well, actually, the one I know maybe. Maybe I'll call him. Angelica's. Angelica's. Is that her name? She's actually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All my, I don't know if it's queer, but all my queer friends do. Yes. Yes. Totally. It's a fun. I love it. I love it. That's what I thought about. But yeah. That's, that's how Kate, Kate came into the movie through like dance actually in my imagination. So. That's so cool. Yeah. Dance and bang on the wind. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Okay. We need to talk about the year of Eric Rayhill. Yeah. Because he's all over my timeline. Yeah. Have naked. Yeah. Everyone loves him. Yeah. And you discovered him in my mind. I will not take credit for that. You're one thing. You're ready to fail. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if you've seen his videos that he's made over the years, but he really specializes in this like kind of like, this like phone based thing of like a guy like looking into the directly into the camera, like not specifically not looking at their image because that makes a weird, that makes the eye contact off like the guys who look into the lens. Yeah, staring down the barrel of the camera, and he does this like, and it's very like straight guy since like hypersensarity, like almost a Christian, like kind of pop Christian. I love that. That's me. It's really good. What he, it's really like, and he rides this crazy line where you're just like, you're like crawling out of your skin because it's like, it's so earnest and you're like, and it's like, it is funny, but like he refuses to like let out any tension with like something like broad, it just like stays so small, it's very sexual, and like it was kind of always going to be him because, oh yeah, I mean, every character was always them, but you know, with the exception of a couple smaller roles, but like, he just totally, he's one of the people in the cast. I think that really embodies the kind of mysteriousness of the tone, where it's like because he's never letting you, he's never saying to them, you can laugh now, you know, like it's like always like on an edge, and actually with him, in some ways, he's like the, it's like the most sincere performance in the movie, and it was such a, it was so sweet because it was kind of, I didn't know him that well going into this, and it was kind of terrifying to be like, you know, we're going to be kissing, we're doing a sex scene, and like, and I don't want it to be like, like it's going to be funny that we're doing it, but in a strange way, like I don't want it to ever be like, just the fact of us kissing or having sex being fun, it's like, it's going to be funny because it's going to suddenly feel like basic instincts not because like, we're doing a sexy, you know, so in other words, we have to commit. Yeah, like completely, yeah, and like, and he just, I barely had to explain that to him. And I really could have, I was, there was like a kind of old like adolescent part of me, like in the wig and the boobs, like that was like, like suddenly, like doing these scenes with a straight guy, and I was like, oh god, like, like I was scared, and he was like, and he was just, it was never, he wasn't ever like, okay, he like, he was, he was so like just acting the hell out of it, so tender, like it was crazy, yeah, it's a crazy performance. But yeah, he's, he's popped off, and once the movie came out, the gap, what's the trailer came out? Gay guys on Twitter. I mean, gay guys on Twitter, you can count them for anything. Oh my god, they were screaming, they had the opening of an envelope, they were like, give us love. Yes, girl. Eighth that. Some of us need that. Some of us need it. No. I'm not gay guys in push work that I feed, like, they need to see my photos. Totally. Um, I actually was going to say that's something that I think about as I had recently had a gay guy summer. Okay, I wasn't dating, and I was just hanging out with gay guys, and it really, it teaching you so much. What did you learn? What I learned is I'm hungry, by the way, because I always think like, as a girl who like, I get like early Tumblr or body dysmorphia, he's like, skins, UK, kind of, you know, you meet Fee and you say, so I should starve, I guess, is that what I should do? But then like cobra steak. Yes. Yes. Indie flees, hair and cheek, all that. And then I was like, okay, no more that I'm black. Like this is a little much better than, you know, y'all can have that. I'm be over here in my business. Yeah. And now with gay guys, you get hungry, because a lot of guys don't eat that much. And then I had like really big conversations with a lot of my gay guy friends about like, and it's not just like a topping bottoming thing, like it's just like a body culture thing. Yes. I know obviously Maddie's woman, but I do feel like it probably went to a lot of conversations amongst gay men about like, eaties in gay men. I wonder, I'm very curious about that. I mean, I certainly have all my, like the kind of, it's so weird, like making art. I mean, I had no, like I obviously, not maybe not obviously, I did not set out with this movie to like discuss eating disorders, especially in a contemporary environment. Like I have, there's no, to me, there's no message about eating disorders. It's just like, it was a genre and a kind of tone that I stumbled into that I found to be very like psychosexually rich and something very personal and emotional started to happen as I was writing it. And I was like, and I just kind of like, you know, backed away from it and let it happen a little bit. And then like, and then it was like, it was shocking. And then it was like, suddenly I was making a movie where I'm in a way, like sobbing and again, just sort of like, I was like, this is crazy. But I, and, you know, there are a lot of like conscious kind of like high brow references that I had going into the movie and I've talked a lot about certain influences, whatever. And but then something, I've, I've very rarely had an opportunity to go on record and also be like, I felt that, yeah, I mean, like, like I, like there, there really is like, there's like a, it's, it's a mysterious movie to me and the way it came about was very mysterious. And then sometimes I'm like, oh, actually, I do have this kind of like, because I'm like a gay guy who like uses the apps. I'm like, here I go. Here we go. Like, you know, it's like, it's hard not to just be like, have this just am because we're all addicted to our phones. So it's like, you spend so much time on those apps just another thing on the fucking phone. Yeah. And it's like, you know, it's like, I don't even, I'm like, what, what came first? Like the, like, am I, am I horny, am I actually horny or am I just addicted to my phone? Yeah. Or do I just want to like swipe on something? I just, like, I just need to rub glass, like, I know those, like sometimes like two things can be true. That's true. Like, I am horny. And I'm addicted to my phone. But sometimes someone's on the way over and I'm like, I'm not horny. Yeah. I don't know. Like, this was, I, I just want to avoid doing my taxes. And I'm like, oh, no. And then they call her like, you know, exactly like that, actually, one more time. No. You have to blur that out. I mean, you can keep the sound. You litter. I'm not kidding. You have to blur my face in that moment. Okay. Thank you. I hated it. It is because black for that moment then comes right back. Yeah. It's like, I don't know, you, you, I, there's just that because of the apps, there's like this kind of ambient, always this ambient feeling of like, oh, like, I'm, you know, I'm not this guy. I'm not that guy. I'm not, you know, it's like, I'll never be like that or like one day I'll be like that. One day I'll do it. You know, like, one day, it's like, it's like, it's just always kind of present. And it leads to this kind of vague, just like, gnawing self hatred and, you know, and I, it's not like, I'm very lucky that I have enough meaning in my life. I get enough meaning out of my work that like, I don't, I've never fully like yielded to that like despair or that like kind of like anxiety, you know. But I do think like part of why I made the movie, and this was not conscious part of why the movie, why I made the movie is because like, I did have these kind of like, these feelings about my body and, and the culture has already like, apparently moved on from like, you like, you're like, it's like, we're in a body, we're in a largely body positive era. And there's not like really an outlet, really, I think, for it to be like, I look, I fucking hate the way I look. Yeah. I actually feel strong. Yeah. Like, like, I love these things to be in a body, you know, and it's like, it's like, I don't feel strong. You know, I feel like that. And like, and that's allowed, by the way, okay? Yeah. And I felt like there was something really cathartic about like tapping into an older form that like, of the, of the melodrama, you know, where you can be like, mother, please, like, don't say that like, it's like, it's a way of kind of making fun of your own insecurity is, you know, it's like, it's to, to be in that mode of like, like, you know, that's one way that I process my body with your shoes is like, is with my friends. I'm like, you know, let just like, as a joke, I'll slip into like that, like in the movie, like, what do you mean by healthy? You know, like, like, what did you mean by that? Like, you know, like, that's how I fuck around with myself, you know, and like, make it light. And like, and there was something, and again, this was not on purpose, but like, when I stepped back from the movie, I was like, oh, oh, I'm like, taking this like insecurity and like, blowing it up to like opera proportions or something, because there's no outlet today to do that. Yeah. You know, and like, and I grew up with only friends that were girls and a lot of them struggle with eating disorders. And we would watch those movies. We've watched "Perfect Body" and, uh, "For the Love and Nancy" and all that. Well, you know, like there's so many of them and Kate's secret, which is like the where it gets most of its plot entitled, but, you know, and it's like, we were screaming laughing at them. They were so funny, even while people were in the throes of eating disorders. And then we were also moved by them. We weren't, like, we were unafraid to, like, let them, like, play us like a fiddle, you know? I don't know. Just admitting. Yeah. Yeah. It was like, both things could be true. And like, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I feel like the, I want to hold space for, like, your feelings about your body changing all the time because also bodies change all the time. Yeah, yeah. And so it doesn't have to be, like, woke 2.0 always, like, it's actually just self-love all the time. Yeah. And like, if you, that's how you experience life, like, God bless, but I have to, you said something and it reminded me of a very important thing that we must legally discuss on this podcast, which is, so we're gonna talk about Maddie's mother. So some of us, some of us in the room have us cross your desk. No, but maybe I saw something in the original. Mm-hmm. Well, I just said, you know, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, find it, because we do have bad eyes. I find it. Go ahead and find it. Once you're there, I'm going to be ready because unfortunately, some of us, I'll be waiting to talk about this. Yeah. You're not going to know, because we do need to set the record straight, people did try to kill me. Because one of our cute Sally was alive since her there didn't know that, um, not with us for a while. She also is not, she was not playing the mother in Maddie's fever just, and she also wasn't splat in Sex and the City. She was not. And I had to apologize, as I'm praising Maddie's fever and then I, like, fumbles so, so, so hard. Do you know how her parents died? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Are we saying it? Are we letting everyone? Yeah. We're actually, let's not. Yeah. If you don't know, let's look it up. They went to formally apologize on the record while the camera's rolling. Yes. It's, it's totally crazy how they died. It's insane. But just so you know, I've been dying to talk to you about this because to make you feel better. Thank you. Kristen Johnston, one of the many reasons why she's a genius is because she does not care. And she like, so I had her as a teacher. She was my teacher at Atlantic acting school, 20 years ago, or like 18 years ago. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And she would literally, she would always go like, I'm not Kristie Alley. Like that's how she would start. I'm not kidding. That's like always her. Okay. That's. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And I think she, it's possible. She me and Kate put her in the thing that we made 555 for Vimeo in like 2015 and she plays an acting teacher. And, and I, we had her improvise like a class. Yeah. And I don't remember if we kept it, but she'd said in the, she maybe says in the sketch the exact same thing. I'm like, I'm not Kristie Alley. You know. Um, but she don't people always mistake her. So you're totally, you're fine. Honest mistake. Yeah. That's actually the only reason we ask you to go. It's a career. Make sure we're all guys. My on. But anyway, thank you for that. I knew that on record. That's cut. That's my social clip. There we go. It's like I'm going to absolve all my things. Okay. Generally. Thank you so much. Thank you guys for having me. This was so fun. Thank you so much. And where can people follow your work and keep up with you? Well, first of all, rent Maddie's secret. You've got to rent, or you could even buy it. Why not? Why not? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I buy movies on iTunes. One of the producers who is Gen Z laughed when I open my computer and they saw the full list of movies that I bought. They were like, I was like, does no one do this? Covering your mouth. I buy them. Not all of them, but the ones that are important to me, even though I already have the month's physical music. My mom bought the descendants on iTunes because she loves it so people do it. Yeah. You know what, wait, can I tell you what Maddie's sequel idea I have? Yes, of course. I have a serious sequel. But then I saw the press, the press, I saw the news, that Graza, they're like detected obviously so many microplastics because it's a plastic bottle. Yeah, of course, yeah. And I was like, yeah, I know. And Graza is obviously so Maddie. The brand day. And so I was like, maybe a sequel could be that she does like, air brock of a style. Like she's like, she's like, what? And then like, fights a good fight. Yeah, exactly. Like bring some down. Please. Oh my god. No, that's so good. Yeah. But in her, like a leopard push up broad. It's like, okay, we're healed. We're healed. We know that they're so incredible actually. Oh, she's going to get her titties. Right. Oh my god. Okay, I can't wait. That's going to be. And that's what let me say this exclusive. Yeah, but how could you cross right now because I said it on this? Yeah, yeah. They're like, credit you for those two thing you get to. So this is the second one. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you guys. Hi, I'm Nicole Feltz, global fashion news and features director at Vogue and co-host of the run through podcast. Each week on the show, our listeners get an all-access pass into the world of Vogue. On Tuesdays, join me as I interview influential designers like Calvin Klein, Rachel Scott, and Simone Balotti. On Thursdays, join Chloe Mao, head of editorial content at Vogue U.S. and Choma Navi. British Vogue's head of editorial content as they explore fashion through the lens of culture with guests like Doja Cat and Margot Robbie. Listen and watch the run through with Vogue wherever you get your podcasts and Vogue's YouTube channel.