Dan + Shay

- Endless summer escapes start here. Travel the worlds of Netflix IRL. Inspired by fan favorites like Stranger Things and Squid Game. Brave the upside down. Face off with the front man. Play leveled up arcade games. Shop exclusive merch. And enjoy themed food and drinks. Beat the heat. Play, eat, and shop on repeat at Netflix House at Galleria Dallas. Bring your crew and save. Get your tickets today at netflix.com/house. - The first single off the record is called "Say So" and grateful that it's doing well, but we wrote it about our friend who took his life a little over a year ago, who meant a lot to us, you know, in our career. Obviously he was our publisher and introduced us to our record label, but he was also a good friend and was there for us. And on the outside, he was one of those guys that we thought everything was right. You know, he's always happy, like always checking in, but it was just such interesting perspective. I'm sure you've had situations like that with people you love too. And we all have, man, it's a real thing. And it just shook our world in Nashville. And we, you know, we were just in the room, it was on our hearts that day. We're talking about it. And that's a heavy song for what we do. You know, I think we even referenced like "Hold On" by Good Charlotte. You know, it's a similar kind of thing that it didn't feel necessarily like a Dan and Shay thing. We write a lot of wedding songs, you know? And I got home that day and played the demo of that song for my wife. And she was like, man, that's beautiful. You guys would write that for Ben on his birthday. And we had no idea that it was his birthday that day. It would have been his 50th. And that moment I was like, man, this is where we're supposed to be going right now. That's more of a coincidence that that happened. And that kind of became one of the guiding lights for the album. ♪ Bad times, I don't wanna have bad ♪ - How have you guys been? - Dude, been so good, man. Been busy. I mean, it feels good to be kicking things back up. Trying to turn this album in. I think you got a little advanced link or leak on it. - Okay. - It's not mastered yet. So don't judge the compression levels too hard. No, man, it's been really good. It's been really good. I feel like we're just in the best place we've ever been as friends, you know? As coworkers or whatever you'd call it. You know, band with your brother. It's like, it ain't always easy. You gotta work through it. And we've been through highs and lows. And I don't know, man. It's just, I think you get this far into your career. And I don't know. We've been able to accomplish more than we ever set out to accomplish in the first place. I think when it's all happening for you for the first time, it's happening so fast. You win a Grammy or you do this and you're just like, oh, you're holding on for dear life. And then you get away from it and things slow down a little bit. And it puts it in perspective and it makes you wish you would have maybe slowed down a little bit more. But I think now when we get to do those things again, and I think it sounds corny to say, but the word get, the words get to are important. Not that we have to, oh, we have to go do this. It's like, we get to go do this. We get to fly to Vegas and perform on an award show. We get to come talk to you. I mean, it's awesome. It's unbelievable, man. I mean, it's a privilege. - I don't think it's corny at all. - Yeah, I just feel like keeping gratitude in our lives has just been important to us and just enjoying the moments. 'Cause there were a lot of times that I wish I could go back and enjoy those moments for the first time again, you know? - Yeah. - Yeah. But it's part of the thing. - It's part of it. - Yeah. - You know, I think at the beginning, I do think about this, like at the very beginning, we were just so, we didn't have families. You know, we're out there just like, it's crazy to look at how different it is, you know, then versus now. And just like the things, like we were willing to go out there and tour 280 days out of the year. - Absolutely, you had to. - And now there's no way, like I think if we were starting at this point, it would just be like a, I don't know if that's worth it, dude, like to, 'cause you'd have to lose this part of you. And I'm thankful like that we were kind of at that place in our lives when we first started and, you know, living on no money and just hopes and dreams. And like, it was so fun. And it is, I don't know, I'm thankful for those times, but now it's like, all right, what are we putting weight into? Or it's like, I love what we do. And trying to find that like, that balance is very difficult. I don't know if there ever is like a real work-life balance. I think there's time, there's seasons, I think, more than anything of like, all right, we're hitting it hard. Like we've been gone for like eight days, and we're having a blast. You know, and I'll go back home and be dad, and we'll, you know, work when we work. But I don't know, it is trying to not put too much weight into these bad things that happen to you, or good things. So you try to live your life kind of right there in the middle somewhere. But I don't know, I feel like you never stop searching. - That's nice to hear though. 'Cause the thing that gave you the ability to have the family and the life and the nice life is also the thing that can take it. - 100%. - Sure, yeah. - And the balance is like, you may never find the balance, but if you're trying, like, that's it. It's just trying. 'Cause everyone around you can feel it when you try. You know, your wife, or your kids, or your, you know, for me, it's my wife and kids. They can feel me trying to be the best dad I can be, the best husband I can be, even if I'm not getting it all the way right. There's a felt like I am more important than that. - For sure. - You know what I mean? And that thing takes me away. No way around it. It's gonna take me away a bunch of times. So, they now are part of the sacrifice. - Yeah. - So, my kids and my wife are part of my, like, this is theirs as much as it is mine, as far as I'm concerned. - Yeah. - Because they're sacrificing. They're giving up. I've missed a couple things, key moment things, that like, that they didn't choose for me to miss it. I had to go do it, I thought at the time, whatever. And like, would I go do it again? I don't know, I can't change it. But I can express to them that like, one, I wish I had it. But I had to at the time. I thought I had to do it. And all I'm trying to do is provide. - Yeah. - And I'm trying to find the balance. 'Cause it's fucking hard. - It's hard, dude. We're just trying. - Just trying. - We're just trying, bro. I love that. - What is, at this point in your career, 'cause you've been doing it for a minute, you've had all the success in the world. You don't have to do this anymore. You know what I'm saying? I talk about this with my therapist. It's trying to find, what's your why? What is your why for doing it now? Is it, 'cause obviously like, you're in an amazing financial place. It's not like, oh, we gotta go do these gigs to pay the bills. It's like, is it a responsibility to yourself, to your fans, you know? - Yeah, Good Charlotte today is not a money question. - Right. - It's just not. Although I do realize when we go out, we do provide jobs for people, which makes you feel really good. - It's amazing. - We keep our crew and stuff on. And so it provides some stability for people, which I feel really good about. So doing X number of gigs a year does provide for a bunch of people. And I feel great about that, but it is a sacrifice. The why for me is two things. I do feel some debt of gratitude to the people that made Good Charlotte matter, that made the music matter in the first place. And when people wanna see us, I do feel like some calling to do enough that felt, for me, that feels like I put effort into giving to enough shows. This year we'll do quite a bit of shows, actually, for us. We'll probably do like 40 shows, which is like a bunch of festivals. One US tour is more, the US tour is like 20 shows. Yeah, probably like 40 or 50 shows, which to me feels like a substantial amount of like going and playing those shows for the people that wanna see them. And they are like also the biggest shows of our career. So like the shows just got bigger. And it feels like we have to acknowledge that as well. Like it feels something like that. Like it feels like, one, the people that work for and with Good Charlotte, that's one group to me. The people that made Good Charlotte matter and the people that give us the ability to roll in and play a show at the level that we do it. It's not us, it's the whole team, the crew, everybody that puts the show on. They're so fucking good. And it makes us a big band, you know? And then the other thing that I think is equally important is the legacy. Is to try and continue to kind of like polish the legacy and make it what we want it to be. 'Cause this thing gave us a life. Like this band we started in our bedroom when we were 15, gave us everything as far as we're concerned. And now our lives feel a lot bigger if you look under the hood or if you go deeper into like what we do, it's bigger than Good Charlotte. But that is the thing that like gave us everything. So we feel like it's a bit of that. It's like honoring the kind of thing and protecting and polishing the legacy so it remains like what we think it should be. - Yeah, 'cause it means so much to like us and us as fans of you guys, but like for our brand too, I do think that we've, when I think about our legacy, a lot of times I will think about like what we did and what it means to us and how we wanna be seen. But it like, it is an amazing thing. - It is an amazing thing that we can start a band and then this thing after 10 years becomes like a legacy for other people. - Yeah. - Like it means a lot to other people. And that's kind of hard to say sometimes 'cause it feels like weird of like, I don't know, we all get in these places as artists where it's like, I don't even know if people like care anymore. Like, you know, you get to the spot, you're like-- - The internet will do that to you for sure. - The internet will really wreck your life, you know? And it's like, but I do think it's a really amazing thing. And that is one thing that I feel more when we're out and we're, you know, if you get on the internet, you're like, everything just sucks. Like everybody hates everything. - It's terrible. - You know, you're like-- - These are going down. - Man, like, what's happening? And it's like, when you get out and you see people face to face and they tell you, your music saved my life. Or this got me through a really tough time and you're just like, man, you just kind of, it puts you right back in your place of, first of all, it's not that you are an important thing. What you have been allowed to be a part of means a lot to people. And you have to acknowledge that. Not in a way of like, wow, I'm so special. But it is very special that you got to be a part of this. And it was-- a gift, like you said, and I do think I have been thinking a lot more about that recently of our legacy of what we want that to be and just like man this really does mean a lot to a lot of people and it's very you can feel heavy sometimes almost where it's just like okay this is a responsibility but also like we get to do this this is unbelievable for me it's like i just try to acknowledge it the best i can and do the best i can and i'm not gonna always nail it but as long as we treat the band like why we say it i've said it a million times because this is exactly how we feel to us this band is like a 1965 chevy impala super sport in perfect condition that we've modified that we've taken care of that we've been stewards of this classic automobile that we feel lucky that it came into our possession and there's no price tag on it we would never sell it we wouldn't let anyone lean on it we'd never let anyone eat in it we wouldn't let anyone drive it but we love to take it out and we love to we love to love showing people it if they're interested opening it up the doors and showing them what we've done to the interior and showing them the chromed out engine and showing them all the the beautiful things we've done to the car and how we and and all of our you know how we take care of it and like we protect it we keep it in the garage we keep it perfect and we take it out and we do some things every now and then to it and we modify it and um that's how we feel about the band we feel like that's such a great visual yeah we feel like that's what it is like again it's a beautiful incredibly special thing we possess we love to share and if you ask me if i want to go do that yes i do but if you told me i couldn't i would also be okay i'd be like okay i'm i'm also happy to be home with my my family i think that i think that's such a healthy place to be and i think only time and growing up age can take you there because there was definitely a time in your life and there's been times in our life where it's like this went away i'm fucked i got nothing else this is all i got i've given myself so much and i think part of the reason why we've all been successful is because we did give ourselves to it so holy you know early yeah um but to just it's i don't know gratitude again man we're we're in a place right now that we get to go out and do something that we love with with the homies you know what i'm saying like i get to see guys like the bass player in our band him and i covered little things you know like we were playing music together since we were in fifth sixth grade and we're still out there like performing on stage and screwing around after the show you know doing the whole thing it's like that's cool when you can enjoy the process that makes i don't know all the wins and losses it makes them matter a little a little bit less yeah the process is what it's all about you know you can't control the outcome can't control what the name in that envelope is at an award show and now yeah and i'm still battling with this this is like what sent me to therapy i've dealt with some shit the last few years and i encourage therapy to anyone you know i know you do too a hundred percent changed my life it saved my life me too bro me too and i just i there was a time that i lived and died so much by the result i remember an award show it was the cmas i think it was 20 2019 probably it was like after tequila we were on top of the world like it was popping and lightning in a bottle moment nominated for grammy first time all this stuff was happening to us we were the most nominated act like album of the year music video of the year tequila single year song of the year we thought we were going to clean up at the award show you know everything's happening multiple songs on the radio we go first award comes up goes to somebody else second award comes up goes to somebody else third one we're like we surely i mean we were so nominated they they must like us we lost every single one of them and it broke me man i don't you know i don't cry that often i guess it's a pittsburgh thing i maybe bottle up my emotions too much therapy's helped me with that uh but i went on the bus and broke down after the show and i was like my world is wrecked i i'm a failure just based on things that i couldn't control yeah and from the outside and i feel like i treated people like an asshole because of it our team i was storming off being a cry baby just like fuck this fuck you know and it was our team was there like man i wish i could go back and change that i mean it's part of the story and it's part of what helped me work through it but it was just one of those moments that like i put too much emphasis on that and i if you step back it's like well the reason you're mad about losing is because you had so many good things going on it's like can you just be grateful for the fact that we had hit songs popping off that we were selling tickets that we were on a tour bus with our buddies getting to hang i mean again perspective hindsight's 2020 on it but it wrecked me and now i think it's i don't know i mean that was like the hottest moment of our career things aren't as we're trying to get them back there you know we're working hard we're putting out music that we're proud of but i think it doesn't it doesn't kill me as much as it used to it's like enjoying that process of getting to go do this we we came in from vegas we lost the damn award last night we were like yeah it's all good stayed out late and hung with with our friends and so you would say that you've probably struggled with you've had the internal struggle with so i'm trying to say i relate to it but i'm trying to but i've seen it a lot sure and i've seen it with like a lot of artists especially being in management there's a certain um personality type right that we're not all so different there's like a garden variety of us like entertainers right and certainly in like lead singers and certainly in like certain like um and i would say you guys are both lead singers but um you're not in a band with eight people yeah you play with a bunch of guys and you're not in a band with eight people but it's the two of you yeah right but i can imagine that you guys are are probably not exactly the same like me and my brother right yeah like i'm probably more the personality that's similar to you 100 where my self-esteem was really wrapped up in this yep so uh if we didn't achieve something i really took it personally it was my worth my worth was wrapped up in it and for sure and and that played out like in some certain ways that weren't good because i wasn't aware of it yeah so i was anxious and i was like i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this i was very edgy when i was anxious i was very like i could be really unpleasant right and you'd be like i want to hang out with him and they're like no you don't trust me you don't fucking hang out with the singer right not not all the time but like like i would turn on the people that love me because i had to kind of be nice to everyone and then i want to i don't want anyone not to like me so i'm going around being like overly nice and overly pleasey and then like overly happy and overly excited and then i turn on the singer and i'm like oh my god i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do my brother thank god i had a twin brother though because he took 90 of it and so because i had a partner like that he was the punching bag and he got the worst of it two points where he was like i don't even fucking want to work with you like at some points because and then i started working on myself and i discovered the depth of my own self-esteem yep and why i was so insecure and why a win meant so much to me or why everyone liking me meant so much to me and then i was when i started working on that immediately it lets the pressure out and i start to realize like and i can go and make repairs with people i can go say i'm sorry and i can start to right size things yeah so that when i don't get nominated or don't win an award or something a result that i was because it's the next result i'm hanging my self-esteem on that and then i forget about that one that i was a total asshole about because we didn't win and i'm putting it on that one and then it's the next result i'm hanging my self-esteem on that and then i forget about that it's a cycle you you know you you attach it to anything um any shiny object of the moment that it makes you feel like you're worth something of course so it'll be an award or it'll be a person or it'll be an achievement or it'll be a hit song or it'll be that can be a great drive in the beginning but can serve us a little bit but if we don't become aware of it it becomes a total a nightmare because it's a terrible cycle when we're hanging up our our joy on like results right because sometimes those results aren't actually good you think you want to win and it might not be good sure it might be the worst thing that could happen to you yep and you can't know till later and then you think something bad happened and it's the worst and then it actually turns out it was pretty good it didn't happen actually like it's good we didn't get that gig yeah it's good i didn't do that tv show but that being said would you say you were the same i was i think that there was or you more benji Endless summer escapes start here. Beat the heat. I was definitely I'd let things roll off my back sometimes but also like it was interesting to watch like both of our because I can see it kind of from like a 30,000 foot view now. Right. Of like the dynamic and I think there was unhealthy dynamics between both of us because we process things a lot differently. And now when I'm looking back on I'm like oh that's he's over there like working like all night I'm over here like just doing really nothing because I'm trying to stay out of his way. And I could see all of like the things that happened. But it's interesting to me because I think. I think that the even though we process things differently I think there was a the biggest thing that happened I think was just a communication stop. A breakdown. A breakdown where it was like. What was that you think? Well I think it was just like getting older. You know it's like we both got married and it's just kind of like we go on the road and then it's just kind of when we get home it's like all right we're out. And like little things became bigger and we got to this point I think it was 2021 where it was like man like this is just getting really tough. And we had like there's a lot of situations that were. that were not great. Like there were some people that we were working with that just. It wasn't necessarily that they were bad. It was just the dynamic was off and the communication breakdown all around. All the middlemen and the handlers and the people. Yeah, I get it. And some kind of go-betweens between Dan and I. The go-betweens. It was a band-aid for a while. But I see it now and I'm like, man, we had that moment in 2021 and it was kind of like, all right, do we ride off into the sunset and celebrate our accomplishments? Or do we have some maybe really hard conversations with each other and fix this? And that's what we did. And it's just that communication kind of changed everything. But it is, I also look at Dan and some of the things that he struggled with and the things that I struggled with. Even though they were different, I watched some of the driving. I'm sure you guys are both like this. I think there's good and bad sides to, maybe some of the things that you struggle with or being hard on yourselves. When you're in a healthy place, that's the biggest driver. He's the hardest worker I know. It's a strength. And it's a strength. And I think it is important to call those things out of, yeah, he might not sleep. He probably sleeps one hour to my 30. But it's one of the reasons that we were successful. One of the biggest drivers that we were successful as a band is the hard work and stuff. But yeah, all that to be said, I think that we process things very differently. But I think that's why it works. If we were the same person, it'd be a nightmare. Did you guys, so there was a point where you were like, I don't know if this is gonna. Big time. Yeah, yeah. To the point where it was like, the moment was, we worked hard, we did these tours, we had these hit records. And then we got like the most coveted slot, the opening support slot in country music. It's like Kenny Chesney, who we grew up big fans of. He does the big NFL stadiums. It's a whole thing. It's like a mini festival. You know, he does the show on Saturday. I used to go to it every year growing up. Yeah. Hinesfield and Pittsburgh. It was like, we would party. We'd get down there eight in the morning. It was awesome. We got the offer to do that direct support. It was a great lineup, big payday. It's awesome. And we were in such a place where we're like, fuck it, do we bail off of this tour? We were, which is crazy to say now. And if you would have told us that in 2013, when we got this thing going, we'd be like, what are you talking about? That's nuts. But I just feel like it was just in such like a tense place that it didn't feel right. It was like, yeah, we got to go out and get the money or whatever. But I feel like we got to this crossroads in our career where we weren't sure if we were, I don't know. I think it also like, I wanted to, cause I've, duos are tough, man. It's a tough configuration. It's like a marriage, but you know, there's just a lot on the line. And like you said, earlier communication is everything and we just weren't communicating. And we got to this place where I think both of us have, like you said, a lot of respect for the legacy and the catalog and the songs and everything that we've been fortunate enough to accomplish our fans. It's so much the same story as yours, but it's like, we felt like we owe it to that. We owe it to ourselves, you know, as friends, as collaborators, as partners, let's figure this out. We have to figure this out. Whether it is like, you know what, man, we've done all this amazing stuff for 10 years. Let's just like, call it a day and go out on this Kenny tour as our farewell tour. And it's beautiful. And we can look back on our legacy with, without like tarnishing, you know, without like looking on it in vain. And I called Shay. I was like, Hey man, can you come over and talk? And I think like our wives and our inner circle were like, holy shit, like driving over there, like my wife Abby, like took the dogs to a friend's house and just like, we wanted no distractions. He came over one night and that moment was like the most. Pivotal critical moment in our entire career, more than any, record deal signing more than any song getting on the radio. That was a moment that changed everything because we were in a place where we were like, all right, man, we're either going to say peace out to this thing, or we're going to figure this shit out and get it right. Cause what we're, we're at right now is not sustainable. And it's not like we hated each other. Like Shay said, it's like when we lived together in 2013 and we were just going to the bar every night and playing music and you're touring and you're out in clubs, like you're, you're the homies you're everybody's in one bus. And it's just like, it's party all the time and you don't have a chance to go to grow in different directions, which is healthy to grow in different directions. I think too, you know, we, we both started our own families. And then, yeah, if you're not keeping in touch when you come home, it's hard to pick it back up, you know? So he came over that night and I think it was just, it was like the healthiest conversation. I like, you know, I'd say like, wish we had some hidden cameras in there. I wish somebody was like, we had GoPros in the corner. We got that. That's content for the documentary. But I think the fact that there weren't cameras on made it that much more special and important. And he ended up staying at the house till like, three, four in the morning and just hashing out. What was the conversation? Man, we, we had, it was a lot of, a lot of things. I think one, if I can look back on one moment that I think that maybe in my mind shifted, it was just like, man, we've got to like fix this. I want, I want Dan to be able to enjoy these things. Like, like I want to enjoy them. Like there was moments where we. I think me not enjoying them hurt your ability to enjoy them too. You guys, you wanted each other to be happy. Absolutely. And I think at the, at the core of it, it was just like, dude, I don't know like how to make you enjoy this. These things are like, I want to be happy. And then like, that kind of made me stress cause I'm trying to be like a good partner. But there was times like we'd step off a sold out arena show and it would be like one thing. And like, Dan would be devastated. Whatever that was. Pixel in the video wall was out. I was like, man, this show is a piece of shit. So you have a real, it's interesting. It's interesting. This is a real thing and it's not wrong. So that's the other thing is like, you got to realize like you were made in a, an interesting way. And that's why you can do what you do. A hundred percent. I were artists and we're like, we're all twisted up sometimes and we have, that's why therapy is so good because if we can understand ourselves, we can contain it a little bit in some spots and then point it at certain things and let it go wild. And I think you probably have a OCD type personality that gets hung up on a detail and you get in a loop because my manager's looking at me over there. She's a real, she's like, so that's all that's all anxiety based but anxiety is such a bad word right yeah but there's good anxiety yeah i'm anxious i want to i want to do good it's the same with fear man when you have fear fear it's like fear can be wielded in a good way and i needed to understand that about him yeah because i was so chill sometimes where it was like i wanted to be the opposite like man dan's not enjoying any of this and so i was like what this is crazy that he doesn't like we just that was the sickest show ever and he is literally like so furious with like his mix or whatever it was it was not about that there was you know other things that were that were happening but once we kind of started communicating it made me understand like first of all it's a strength to like be ocd and see those things that like those details that people don't see because i'm certainly not going to see him and our shows probably if i was running the show of like that side of things our show would be absolutely terrible it would just be like nah all over the place you know like but that's our superpower as if when we finally were like hey you're not good at enjoying these things sometimes i enjoy everything even when it's bad so if we can meet somewhere in the middle we can make this beautiful thing which is what happened in the beginning like we had both been writing songs forever separately and when we came together and wrote that very first song even the friends around us were like well this is this is this is better this is unbelievable like what you guys have been writing together is really special and i was like what is that and it was like well at the beginning we weren't it was chemistry it was natural chemistry and it was it was made to be in the world and so like you know looking at how that kind of you know ran its way how that river ran through the years i think it was just i'm super proud of when we did get to that moment to recognize first of all that hey this we can't continue on this way and instead of breaking up like man duos like just historically it's not a great track record i mean that's just kind of what they do break up duos be breaking up they'd be breaking up a lot yeah and so like i'm pretty proud of of that you know just like man we we fixed this and not only like are we communicating but it makes me appreciate the things that i thought drove me crazy about them are some of the things that i love the most about them now yeah that i that i know what they are and i understand them and we've both done therapy and like understand ourselves a lot more now which is just like again back to the therapy thing like it's it's vital to you know and back to our original point of like what are we all you know doing you know as artists trying to figure this out we're all just trying to you know be the best versions of ourselves you know and i think it also has now at this point in our career kind of come out in our music in an amazing way like it never has before where it's just like you know talking about the reason why it's like why are we putting out you know this music and this new album that we're putting out really for the i don't want to say that for the first time we've had moments like this of songs on albums but this entire project was like it felt like a clean slate of oh we're starting from a healthy you know place of we've been to therapy we know a little bit more of how to handle you know our situation and it was like an exploration of kind of our entire career and where we are right now and songs that like it matter to us it isn't just a a bop we love a bop like we like we've got those songs and we hopefully have a million more of them but it was like man this this music like really this matters and at this point talking about like the legacy of if we can't do that now then you know then when would we ever do it we don't need to chase this stuff like let's we have something to give to the world let's do it funny something just came to my mind my dad used to say this to me i don't know if you've heard of it but it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's i was estranged from my dad for a very long time yeah it was very hard and then later in life we met each other we got back together it was great we became like the man i thought i hated i loved and he was me i i i saw so much that's what happens when you get older he used to say to me man what you worried about i was just thinking that while you guys were talking yeah you guys are young as shit you have all the experience you've had you've had all the experience you've had you've had all the experience in the world all the accomplishments in the world all the accomplishments the thing you had to figure out was how to be together yeah and happy for sure it's like the hardest part that you don't ever think about you know it's like you can do all these things and have accomplishments and it's like all these cool do you guys like each other we're like platinum records and fucking number ones actually let's let's let's explore what you did together i'm sure you already know it i know you do yeah let me check these stats correct them if they're wrong i got you three-time grammy award-winning country duo first ever i think to win it consecutively did you win it consecutively yeah we did we did three in a row three years in a row but here's me here's me right we win three consecutive grammys which is so dope and in that moment we were up the only artist who's won four consecutively in a category was lenny kravitz and his category maybe one of the rock categories yeah lenny kravitz all right we're coming for you lenny and then we didn't win that fourth one i was like well the other three didn't matter at all those three but no i mean looking back on it now it's crazy grammy award winning country duo multiple nominations multiple 14 billion global streams probably more by now since this was printed 10 million monthly listeners on spotify just spotify not apple not youtube not pandora not all the other just spotify alone so let's do the math put all the platforms together you got 10 million on spotify you got 10 million on spotify you got 10 million on spotify that's probably something like 40 50 million people a month across all platforms if i do the math over 12 years together anyone was married for 12 years you'd be like good job guys congratulations oh my god how'd you do it that's that's a fact right there okay so i'm just putting some perspective on what you guys should let out the breath you did it man honestly like that i'm not sure eleven number one singles at country radio eleven eight american music awards for favorite country duo four acm awards what's that american country music academy country music awards that's what we were at last night sorry guys i'm not that country there's too many country awards four of them two cmas all for duo of the year so these are consecutively people saying you're a good duo you've got uh two four six fourteen plus the grammys seventeen major awards for being a duo if the universe was telling you should we be together yeah you got seventeen awards and then how many times you're nominated probably twice as much so i'm just saying plus three billboards so that's actually 20 a billboard music award so 20 for country duo so that's 20 major awards for being a country duo nine worldwide multiple platinum platinum and gold certifications so the globe has agreed i'm gonna stop there because there's more but i'm just saying if i was if i was your therapist i would say you kind of are to be honest this is hanging out i love it it's a hobby it's a hobby can we come back i think it can get dicey if you don't step out which sounds like what you guys did right because coming together and having a tough conversation saying hey i'm sorry i'm really sorry i don't want to break up i just i want to i just want to be with you yeah right if we had to do that with our wife we'd do it absolutely and we i was an asshole i'm sorry and all right i was short-sighted or i was this or i was that and and at first we could start with yeah but you always do this but you always do this but you always do that and that's exactly how and i think that's why this conversation works and i think that's why we're in such a healthy place now that night that was the first thing that happened i'd i was like you know what man i'm i asked you to come over my house like and i'm going to start this conversation because it was like you're probably driving over like is this shit going to be awkward like what are we going to talk about are we gonna are we gonna fight or like what's up you know but i i was like hey man i just want to take accountability and responsibility for like what i've done to you what i think i've done to you what i've done what i think is wrong and i was just like i apologize for this i apologize for being this guy i apologize for getting carried away too much on these certain things i only i did it because i cared but i cared too much to fault where i hurt you and i hurt other people in my life and that opened opened the floodgates for this open conversation and i think it just changed the trajectory of our career you did the same thing you apologized for your shit i apologize for mine and it was just such a healthy conversation it wasn't accusatory it wasn't like you did this you know and we started out by doing that and i just think that was just such a great i don't know roadmap for how we're treating the rest of our career how you know since that conversation it's like if something is bothering you or you feel like you fuck something up say it open communication regular communication rather than letting these things build up and boil and then it just explodes that makes me so happy it was amazing man it was i don't know i feel so good about it and i'm i'm sitting here after you read those accomplishments thinking like those things mean a lot it's dope that we have grammys and stuff you can't awesome bro can't take it away you know once you win two grammys you're multi-grammy winner don't get better than that you know it's we don't think they can take it away we haven't read too much into that can they take it away what i learned in therapy right anyone listening this is a really easy tool one is to have uncomfortable conversations with people and two if we're communicating it's two people trying to understand yeah what it feels like to be the other person right even if we don't agree i'm just trying to understand when you say something i'm trying to understand it i'm trying to understand it and me to go ah okay i understand so if i say i think or i feel like you're gonna hear me and it's not absolute if i say i feel like you always uh lie to me you're like well i don't like i know you think you don't but i feel like you do you're gonna hear me and go like maybe i did lie to you that one time but i was afraid i didn't want to you were upset at me and i didn't want to and then i go well i was upset you could because this and then you can go back down that road of just accusing but if you get if you always back off and remember like this is my this is how i feel right and maybe you did lie to me sure but you have room to say yeah but i was a fucking afraid of you because you were mad at me so i lied to you because i didn't want to hurt your feelings or i didn't want to blah blah blah and then there's room because that's that's there's we don't the absolute and the black and white and the anything is you know it's bullshit it's like no we lie to other sometimes people lie to each other like it's no it's it's a human condition but if we can explain why right doesn't mean it's okay doesn't mean it didn't hurt your feelings doesn't mean but like can we get to a place where we repair things with people we love and i learned this in marriage just because like i'm trying to be a partner with someone now like we've been together 20 years the only way we got amazing right like but 10 years when you get there you're like holy shit we better start working on some stuff yeah right that's when you kind of turn a corner where you're like i i like this but also like we got to work and then you start working on stuff and you learn how to like communicate and some shit hurts her feelings that doesn't matter to me as much or and you start to understand and i bring up that because you guys are a duo 20 big awards says you're a duo whether you want to be a duo or not to all of us you're a duo and you could be a duo and you could be a duo and you could be a duo and you could be a duo and you could be a duo and you could be a duo and you could be a duo and you could be a duo and you could be a duo and you could be a duo and you could be a duo and you could be a duo and you could be a duo and you could be a duo and you could be a duo and you could be a duo and you could be a duo and you could be a duo this is your legacy you did it i'm always gonna see it i can't unsee it you can reject it no but i you know we could all we all struggle with our own value we're like but i'm more you don't see how special i am and i'm like but we have that like i'm in a band you can't unsee it yeah i mean good charlotte you're always gonna know me like that you might know me for some other stuff as we go but like no you can't unsee that and so i have to one accept and love that thing that i did and that accomplishment even if i struggle sometimes to try and prove that i'm more than how you see me that's okay yeah but also like both things can exist and then like that's where you know i think after the 10 years of marriage and you turn that corner and you're like okay we got to start working that's kind of the timeline you guys were on when you had that conversation for sure a little bit yeah you know and then you go okay how do we how do we how do we go to get to 20 years of marriage bands don't and and duos and groups don't get taught that not at all dude and i think that it would be and that's why i think it's important that we're doing this yeah because there's going to be an artist out there who's you know who sees somebody who's had success is watching you watching us watching friends of ours and being like and those guys got it all together and some times we most of the time we don't but it's awesome to hear people be vulnerable and to talk about this kind of stuff because again there isn't there isn't a school of of things like your school is like going and screwing it up for the first 10 years that's right which sometimes is what you need but i think you know when i when i look at all this i think that you know our world is in this place right now where there's not a lot of of empathy for the other side of the opinion whatever that might be that's right and i think you know when you and there's so many things that dan and i believe different things on whatever it might be different opinions on on whatever it is if you approach that with empathy and say first off i respect you with my whole heart and love that you have that opinion for yourself like you came to that and i respect that Even if I'm over here of whatever this is, I don't like this kind of music or I like this, whatever it is. If you approach it with empathy and say, first off, I love this person. So how do I understand this person better? Because no matter what, you know, thing that they decide to choose differently than you, if you can kind of agree that you both respect those opinions, we can meet somewhere in the middle and you can still love that person. And, you know, you're going to land where you're going to land. But I think that we don't even want to have those conversations anymore a lot of times in our world and not just in music, but like we just, when you stop communicating, if you just say, okay, actually I disagree with you and I also hate you and I don't even want to hear what you have to say, then we just lose humanity, you know? And it's like, all right, as long as we can have empathy and say, you know what, first of all, if you're human and I love you and you have value, so I'm going to listen to what you have to say, even if I don't agree with it, let's meet somewhere in the middle. And with music, with a band, like you have to do those things where it's like the beauty of what we bring to the table, whatever that is, we're bringing it here to make something that is new and beautiful. A lot like a marriage and like having kids now, I'm just like, that was literally like I have four kids that are a product of like way better versions of what, you know, we, I brought to the table. It was mainly like she brought 99% of the goodness and I brought like maybe one, but it's like, uh, you know, but it's an amazing thing to watch with that. Yeah, I think all of us, mine is like, you know, if it's an amazing thing to watch, like how did you guys? Like, how have you guys been together 20 years? I'm like, it's her. She brought the 99%. Smart one, but it's beautiful though. I watched that. And I think that when you do that, the product of what comes out of that is a, you know, maybe a better version of what each of you brought to the table. And that's just, that's what I think a duo can do the best. If we can do it, that dynamic might be the hardest, but I think sometimes the product of what a duo can be maybe shows the, I don't know, I think it's a band's obviously like when there's four or five people in the band, there's been amazing bands that have done incredible things, obviously, but it is amazing to watch like what duos have done, like in, in history of like some of my favorite bands of all time are duos and it's because when it's done, right. It's really special. It's not just one person. It's a, it's a dream. It's a legacy that has been like created by two people and is like the hardest thing ever to keep and maintain without just going off the rails and be like, I don't think I like this person anymore. You know? And just like, I don't know. It's like a duo, it signifies the idea that we could have a best friend. Yeah. A hundred percent. You know, a hundred percent. I think even in bands, I mean the lead singer and the guitar player, it's like Joe Perry and Steven Tyler or Mick Jagger, Keith Richards. It's like people love that, you know, they latch onto that. And I just, man, I like looking back not to get too emo here, but like on the, we're on a busy stretch right now, getting this album up and running. We saw it on the calendar. We're like, shit, man, that's going to be a grind or whatever. It's real work. Yeah. It's amazing obviously, but it's, we're flying all over the place, like across the country, back and forth, back and forth, not seeing our families. I think after hearing you read those stats, it's awesome. Proud of it. Grateful. But I think looking back on like this week, this moment that we're in right now, the fact that I'm happy doing this and I'm okay, not, it's a weird way to put it. I'm okay. I talked about this with my therapist. Like, what is your goal? It's like, I want to be okay to do it. I want to go out there, not get too high, not get too low, not be too phased by the results if they don't go my way. Yeah. I don't get to be traveling around my best friend. We're walking in here today. We're like, dude, you want to watch the basketball game tonight? You know what I mean? And like the fact that we're in such a healthy place where we can do that is so sick. I don't know. It's just such a rare thing. I, we're in this position right now. We've been fortunate enough. We've been blessed, but it's not about like the wins or the losses. It's like that we can chill. It's those, those small moments like that and that we've been hanging the last few days and it's like, we don't have to, we can go do what we got to do then disappear to our hotel rooms. But we're out watching games. We're having a drink. We're getting a meal. And I, I'm so grateful for that, man. Cause that's the sustainable was a good word that you used. And like that to me is what makes it sustainable. I think comparing that to a marriage, maybe in a marriage, the Grammys are like the big, the trips to Greece or the honeymoon or whatever. But what really makes a long marriage sustainable and special is that little moments when you get a night off. It's road trips. Yeah. You get a little moments. Yeah. You get a night off and you watch a movie together and your PJs and you order some pizza and like, that's it. You know? That's my fucking bread and butter, bro. It's the jam, dude. Hell yeah. That's it. Yep. I don't give that up. Absolutely. I'm doing coffee every morning with my wife. Yep. The mornings we don't, we both are not happy about it. Yep. We fucking, at this stage, we found this whole new, our kids are older now, so we have like more time back because teenagers will sleep till fucking 12. Looking forward to that. My oldest is nine, so I can't wait. He's in it. He's in the weeds. And they're doing their own thing and you got to also like fucking let them. So if you're not finding shit you like to do and still being together because then you got to be there because they do call. They do need you. They do. It's different. So you have to, you have to stay home. You have to be, when you reach the part of your life where your kids are teenagers, you have these adults in your house and they are fucking making decisions and you got to kind of let them. I'm just saying like that you grow up and you realize like what life is about and then you come back to this thing with that. And I think you enjoy it in a whole different way. Not that we all didn't enjoy the ride because it was wild and it was a roller coaster and it was cool. And in your twenties is that's the time for that. Yep. For the chaos. It's not chaotic anymore though. It's like this nice, pleasant bunch of guys who are all married with kids hanging out, drinking coffee or going to a dinner. Or watching a game or playing golf or I don't know, whatever we all want to do. All the crew, everybody. It's, it's, it's a chill. It's a good vibe. Yeah. And we feel like anyone that doesn't have that kind of vibe is insane. Yep. Yeah. It seems crazy looking back on it now. Like, man, how did we, how did we make it? We were insane. It was crazy because it's real connection. Like what you said. I think that that's what we're all doing out here. Like to, to sustain this. Yeah. There has to be a real human connection with, you know, also like your fans too. It's important to be out there with them and see that. I think when we're writing songs, because it is, the internet is, that's a whole other like thing that we could spend six hours on. Different category. Different, different thing. And you can internet good and do well. Sure. And that's fine. Like I'm not against that, but like that's different. It is. You meeting your fan in a coffee shop. Yeah. Or at a meet and greet or wherever. And they see a real person. They're like, Oh my God. Like, I feel like I know you. I think it might actually be different people. I don't know. I don't know if anyone's real on the internet. We can't get a like on Instagram to save our life, but we go through the airport and fly Southwest and we're the Beatles. It feels, you know what I'm saying? It feels good. But it feels good. And I think it matters. I mean, it matters to us. It's like, you know, some validation. I think deep down, as much as we say, we, we don't care. Validation feels good that we're doing, we're on the right track. But I think to those people, like that's a cool story for them. You know, it might be a moment that they needed in their life, what they're going through and being out there. I think that's part of our purpose while we're doing this is like hearing those stories. But if you're only on the internet, you're kind of, I'm, I'm, this is me. I just see the, there could be 900 good comments. And there's one guy who's like, you guys, fuck it. So I'm like, do we, we might suck. Yeah. We suck. If he just met us, he'd like us, but you go out on the road or whatever. You're out in the wild. I did it. Yeah. You go on. It's just, I don't know, man. It feels good. But just remember that guy is the kid who runs up and punches Mickey mouse in the stomach. That's right. That's right. Yeah. He doesn't know what to do with himself. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. You're so good at this, by the way, dude. I am? You're so fucking good. So good, dude. Seriously. No, no, no. I can tell because I listen to the pod. Like I genuinely am a fan. It's just so good. You know, whether it's an artist or Elliot's interview, like just so sick, man. Oh yeah, yeah. Elliot was great. So good. But you're just, it's, you're a natural and you have so much perspective. You saying like your perspective and feeling on those shows that you guys are coming back to do, which is awesome as a fan, like I'm glad you're out doing it. Thank you. But I think we're somewhere in that process, you know, I think we're getting closer to that place. I think we're close, but there's still the, you know, we're, we're on the come out. We haven't quite proven ourselves as much as we want to. Still scared of catching blue dot fever. But I think that's such a shitty thing that there's a culture from like just trolls on the internet that have made artists like us insecure about not selling your tickets. Back in the day before the internet, who cares if you went out and did a show and there was a couple of empty seats because the fans don't care that we're looking out there. But the fan who was at that show, you know, I go, I saw third eye blind the other day. I mean, I don't know how many kids are there. It could be 2000 or 25,000, but I was like, damn dude, they're playing. How's it going to be? And I'm going crazy, you know? And I think that's the perspective to have, but yeah, we're in that, we're in that journey right now. You're in the process. Yeah. And I just go with it for sure. We're getting there. We're getting there. And being in this great personal place is like, it makes it all so much easier. I'm thinking about where, you know, put a fall tour on sale. I think it's going to do great. I hope it does great. But I think more so I'm like, damn dude, it's sick. Touring during football season. I can't wait to get the boys on the bus. Yeah. What's our setup going to be to watch football? You know, like little things like that. I think make me more okay with doing this. Make me more happy to do this. You know? Yeah. My thought is we get caught in these little moments where we're looking too close and we're staring at the wall saying the same thing over again. And like, you know, like, well, that there's that guy over there talking to the wall instead of zooming out and being like, Whoa, what the fuck? Yeah. And I think you guys have, I think that's how you. you got here so i'm not saying you're doing that but like you got to make sure that those old loops you may have gotten into whatever caused the the pain it has nothing to do with this it's all inner stuff and then when you start like the therapy is the best thing you do because you're just dissecting yourself every week and i love it because i just enjoy that um but if i said you should go to the gym every week you'd be like yeah i probably should we all agree on that it's proven that's all therapy is it's a gym for our emotional self and our brain and our thinking self and our you know our neurotic self and all the things that but we also got to remember that's what what made us us like we're we're neurotic weird people that think we can write songs you know what i mean yeah and so weird guys weird guys we got to accept that yeah that we're these idiosyncratic weirdos who are particular about certain things keep all the good and then work on the stuff that gets in the way of the good you know and i think that like that's what the work part is actually supposed to be and then like anyone that's like fucked out i'm like i don't know man you you don't have to grow like i'm not telling everyone they have to grow it's fine yeah i'm over here just trying to play the game of life yeah and have fun because it's fun to play games and that's what we're doing with this thing is like we're playing a really fun game where we make stuff and then we like give it to people and did you like it yeah you know what i mean you're playing it well dude it's inspiring playing it well seriously you're so good at this it's just i feel like i should pay you for this therapy session man i'm like shit and he's nailing it i don't hold back the second half i'm like damn spot on it's inspiring though and i and hearing you talk also makes me excited because i i do think that there's i mean at this point now we've been doing it 10 years and it's crazy to experience like what you've gotten to experience with so many people of like these people who are just right behind you where it's like even if they're five years behind you i think about that gap it's like there's a lot that you learn in these little you know tidbits of time of like we're both coming up on 10 10 years of marriage marriages with our wives like thank you man but like that's you you can look back and being able to talk with people who are about to enter the season that you're into like i think that's just such an inspiring thing to for one thing hear people like you talk and that notion of like man that's really cool that we are going to get to do that for you know my friend i'm going to get to do that for my kids or for like this next generation of artists coming up like that's a very fulfilling thing to be able to talk about and explore and just like and just try together and i love that like whenever i get a new you know tidbit of wisdom like you've dropped out all day today that i've been gathering up like like nuggets of gold like that's an amazing thing to be able to take and to and to share with somebody else like that's just a it's inspiring dude endless summer escapes start here travel the worlds of netflix irl inspired by fan favorites like stranger things and squid game brave the upside down face off with the front man play leveled up arcade games shop exclusive merch and enjoy themed food and drinks beat the heat play eat and shop on repeat at netflix house at galleria dallas bring your crew and save get your tickets today at netflix.com slash house that's what we're supposed to do yeah yeah with artists like as artists we're supposed to share with each other and we're supposed to share with each other like putting fruit on i heard somebody talk about it the way uh this guy john maxwell talks about who wants to put fruit on other people's tree yeah or help yeah give them some of those apple seeds and let them grow their own apple tree absolutely you know what i mean like you guys have an orchard now yeah and every now and then you get the opportunity to like teach someone how to do that how to grow their own orchard teach a man to fish it's that whole idea it's like share some information some wisdom of the how you know you know how to grow your own and that makes the world a better place and if the world is a better place we are all richer we are all healthier and if if you help an artist become more successful it makes your world better yeah and it's not like it's some limited pie that we're like fighting over that's not how it works art is endless yeah it's a it's like i say it's like aladdin's cave what we do yeah every day is if you want to find a treasure you will find it yeah you really create a safe space here though and i like again as a fan of your podcast people open up to you in a good way and you get real content you know sometimes you do it most of the time we do a radio interview or whatever and it's like we're so excited about the new album obviously you know it's just like so surface it's so quick but i feel like we've shared pretty vulnerable stuff with you today you know yeah well i think that matters yeah the only way you can do it is if you can be yourself yeah you can't be yourself if someone's not being their self yeah and a lot of times you go on and you're like oh i'm not being myself i'm not being myself i'm not being these interview type shows and they're not really being themselves they're they're they're sticking to the script yeah they have their questions and they really want to get that one tell us why you broke up and you're like yeah oh it didn't break up but if you really want so but you have to protect yourself so it's like weird in that way but also your new record people are going to check it out when they listen to this because they're interested in the story you just told and now they want to know what that sounds like yeah it's human nature i'd rather them be interested for real because then it gives if they get to know you they're interested and then they go with a different light on it then if i'm if it's a commercial and it's like we just need to convert 20 of the people that hear this commercial yeah instead of an entire audience listening to a show who truly this is human nature we listen and we watch people and we decide if we like them yeah yeah i think there's a reason why why would i go listen to maybe say those guys are really weird and idiots or they say like i yeah well if you're lying they know it so that's the thing is like we have a we're animals so like when we talk to each other and if we hear each other we just know if we're lying yeah it doesn't matter how well the interview if the interview went or the commercial went or the performance went for fucking lying we can feel it and then it becomes like like people don't realize that they're sniffing that that they're just sniffing someone who's not letting their guard down and they're not just saying like this is how i feel and they're not just saying like this is how i feel and they're not just saying like this is how i feel actually so you guys almost broke up i'd say that's pretty fair assessment yeah you had a moment you were at the contemplate do we still want to do this yeah and then you looked at each other and said yeah man come on and here we are new record yeah new record new tour new record called young man i feel every every artist says this every album they put out it's our best album yet it's our most personal i i really think it's good man i'm really proud of every song on the record and every song is a detailed snapshot of who we are as men in our lives right now and i think it's right now you know in our mid to late 30s it's like we wrote a bunch of songs before we landed on this young album i just kind of had this midlife crisis thing about ai and technology and social media i'm in my head a lot as you can probably learn from this conversation but i just was like man is it coming for us you know is it going to take our jobs like you know you've got apps that can write a viral crazy song in like two seconds and i'm like man i spent six months editing these drums or you know trying to tweak this second verse lyric and like here comes this ai but i think it made us reassess the whole thing because i think some of these tracks that we were chasing before we landed on what you know the young album felt like there was no depth to them they felt like ai could create them in a second you know the beats sounded like computer generated the lyrics were fluffy and we just were like you know what man i don't know like where we're going to go with this but let's try to just tell some real stories let's get in share what's on our actually on our hearts right now even if it's like not the sexiest thing you know it's like there's no song songs about picking up a girl in a bar which we've done plenty of those we those are great we love them and we're not saying we won't do those again you know sometimes you got to step into that storyteller role we were just like let's just tell the narrative of what we're going through as people right now because i think our fans want to hear that from us you know they love us and they grew up with us whether they started listening to us in high school or whatever they're growing they're aging with us and we just covered a lot of themes of what we're going through in our lives right now like grappling with the concept of mortality the passing of time you know losing the thought of being loved one like that's the sad songs on the album like what if my spouse passes away before me not like oh this chick bounced on the bar she was so hot you know yeah it's just like heavy concepts and i don't know i mean i hope the songs are hits the first single off the record is called say so and grateful that it's doing well but we wrote it about our friend who took his life a little over a year ago who meant a lot to us you know in our career obviously he was our publisher and introduced us to our record label but he was also a good friend and was there for us and on the outside he those guys that we, we thought everything was right. And we, you know, we were just in the room. It was on our hearts that day. You know, I think we even referenced like hold on by good Charlotte, you know, it's a similar kind of thing that, you know, it didn't feel necessarily like a Dan and Shay thing. We write a lot of wedding songs, you know, and I got home that day and played the demo of that song for my wife. And she was like, man, that's, that's beautiful. That's more than coincidence that that happened. And that kind of became one of the guiding lights for the album and where we took the rest of it. And I don't know, man, we're just, we're making music right now. We're in the season of life. We're just like unapologetically Dan and Shay. And I think, I think that's when we're at our best. And I do think that gives us the best chance for success rather than being an imposter. But at the end of the day, man like we're proud of these songs and whether it pops off on streaming or radio or whatever we can hang our hats on this album front to back and be like i love every single song on that album i'm proud to share that with my friends i'm proud to send unfinished mixes to you to listen to you know what i'm saying it's just like it feels like us and someday when we look back on it i tried my best to use all real instruments on this record it feels like very i think you described it like this it's human yeah you know there's some imperfections on it you know we make shiny polished music but in general it was made by real people written by real people about real things and performed by you know in the past where i would have put like a crazy hip-hop drum loop and i love that in the verse it's like let's try to do this with a real drummer and i just think i don't know it was refreshing for us and i think that was maybe a reaction to to ai and where i see ai going it's like i think people can feel that authenticity in music you know it's like i got like super down the rabbit hole of the you know i think people can feel that authenticity in music you know it's like i got like super down bruce springsteen nebraska album like that's him record on a four-track task cam and like i feel that room that bruce springsteen made that album in and i don't know i think took a little bit more of a minimalist approach on this it was like instead of going crazy with the layering and the programming it's like no let's let it sound like what we sound like in a room singing that song i'm so proud of it honestly that's awesome yeah that's how you should feel yeah it's hard i mean you know it is it's like at this point in our career what do we write about what do we say and it's like shit let's write about what we're going through right now because at the end of the day it's like even if it doesn't pop off it's like it's given our fans a look into our lives and i think that's i don't know it's all we can do at this point yeah i think the um exploration musically is continue to excavate and dig yeah and find out what it means to be you yeah and then whatever comes out like you wrote that song and then there was a feeling and you start leaning into that and then another song and then another song and you can try to explain it but more i think it's like continue to go deeper into the question of what does it mean to be me and then what does it mean to be us and then if i'm no longer in competition with the results and i'm in competition with a feeling i want to feel that whatever that was yeah i'm gonna keep digging feel that again and then you have a record it was born and then you won't know what this record means until way later yeah and then you have a record it was born and then you won't know what this record means then you can decide how the record did yeah you know what i mean yeah because i think you guys have already accomplished too much to question if you need to ever accomplish anything ever again you will accomplish plenty and you'll you'll you're very young so you'll see like this era that you're of your life that you're in now in this age from my experience i'm 47 so my 30s my mid-30s was when i actually started actually producing real results in life across the board and it was different because some of them i couldn't measure then and now i can look back and measure them and it's fucking insane so you're a wise man wise man dropping just wisdom nuggets dude crazy hello this has been so fun dude i'm just having a grass guys do we have to leave i don't know we're going golfing after this so look around dude no appreciate you guys coming dude thank you man congrats on the record thank you so much man good luck with the tour and the record and uh hopefully we get to hang out sometime or not absolutely i'll get your number we're going golfing all right guys thank you again man and thank you for thank you for doing this not just with us but like thank you for kind of answering that call to you're a real one man do that it exists because of you guys everybody that comes on this show makes it so i just i love it and i feel super grateful i love it thanks guys thank you brother thank you for listening to this episode of artist friendly you can also watch the episodes on spotify spotify premium users get no commercial breaks on my show make sure to follow like and comment because i always read the comments