Curiosity Without Borders with Wesley Warshawer

Welcome back to It's An Honor, a podcast from the WA Franky Honors College, that serves as a platform for critical thinking and nuanced conversation. My name is John Pollard, and I'm the Dean here at the Franky Honors College. And in today's episode, I sit down with Wesley Warshauer, the 2025-2026 Young Alumni Professional Achievement Award recipient, and an alumni of the WA Franky Honors College, for a very reflective conversation centered on curiosity, growth, and the transformative power of a global experience. Wesley's journey began with the University of Arizona, where an early and persistent sense of curiosity made it difficult for him to commit to a single academic path. After exploring several directions, he ultimately settled on degrees in management information systems, operation management, and entrepreneurship, a choice that would shape both his academic and personal trajectory. His time abroad, first in South Korea and later in China, proved deeply influential, sharpening his global perspective, and reinforcing the value of learning through direct experience. The conversation traces how these experiences led Wesley to a full-bright scholarship in South Korea, where he earned a master's degree in global economy and strategy, and set him on a path of continued exploration. During the COVID-19 pandemic, what began as a travel across the United States expanded into a global journey as Wesley immersed himself in communities across continents. Throughout the episode, Wesley reflects on the importance of curiosity, humility, and human connection. He discusses how living with unfamiliar cultures, particularly during his time in Nairobi, reshaped his understanding of the world and reinforced the value of remaining open to new perspectives. The episode closes with Wesley encouraging students to embrace uncertainty, build genuine connections, and seek out new experiences wherever they are. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this podcast are the speakers' owner and do not represent those of the W.A. Frankie Honors College or the University of Arizona. I really hope you enjoyed this episode. Wesley, it's an honor to have you on the podcast. I really appreciate you taking time. Congratulations for being our young alumni of the year. I really appreciate you. As I've gotten to know you a little bit, I first want to say you epitomize an honor student. You really are just exemplify what's best in our honor students and honors grads. I want to go back now to the 18-year-old. Can you talk about what your experience was like then coming here at 18? What was in your mind at that moment and what did honors represent you early on in your higher ed career? Thank you very much. Happy to be here. At 18, I had so many interests. I think I changed my major maybe like seven times at U of A. I had a lot of interest. I was very curious. I wanted to do so many things. I really like the honors college because in the honors college you're meeting people of all different types of majors. If you're a business major, you're surrounded by other business majors. If you're an engineering major, you're surrounded by engineering majors. Honors college was, here's a bunch of people that are all smart and they're all in different fields. And so a person like me who had so many different interests, I love the honors college because you could sit there and in that community meet people from all the different majors. So I really appreciate the honors college. I changed my major a lot of times. I started off as an engineering. I went to international studies. I was a linguistics major for a bit. I settled in in the Eller School and international business. And just kind of back up a little bit. Were you generally curious like this as a kid when you were growing up or where did this come from? Because this is really a signature feature of you being so curious. We're going to get more into that later. But where did that originate from? It's just who you are? Or when I was in sixth grade, I was, I'm from Tucson. So I was going to Orange Grove Middle School and I won the award for the most curious person in the school. So I think I just, it's just somewhere genetic or I don't know, but I always asked a lot of questions. I always had a lot of interests. And the hard part was focusing and deciding like, what do I, what do I want to do because I'm so interested? Every, I looked at all the classes when I was a student and I said, well, that class would be cool and that class would be cool. That class would be cool. And so it was hard to find like, what do I want to narrow myself in? I have to pick just one major or just two majors. That was so tough for me as a, as a student. Yeah. Well, so if you found a home here at the Honors College and in that curiosity was just a lot to flourish, can you talk about, so you ended up as a, over an LR, you settled into that major. And then as you sort of worked your way through the Honors program here at the University of Arizona, what are some of the fun memories you have of being in honors during that time? I was very involved in the Honors College. So I was an ambassador. I didn't, I guess mentorship a little later, but it was great just to be in that community. I mean, I guess there's the type of events we would go to, but also even when I was going to all these different classes, you know, there's like the honor sections of these classes. So it was other people who were interested in academics, you know, to take their studies seriously. I thought was very cool. And like I said, for me, the biggest part was I remember there were so many mixers and events and stuff that not in this cool building. I was I'm too old for that. I didn't get this cool building, but there were so many like events and stuff. Nothing, you know, it was just like there was a mixer or something and all the different majors would come. And it was so cool to sit there and on your left as an anthropologist and on your right as an aerospace engineer. Yeah. I just think that was cool. And to get that sort of community that you found of of interdisciplinary communities, one way to think of it, you know, so you're a person who had all these interests, but at some point you had to decide a major. Do you remember how like, okay, I got to pick a major. What was do you remember what drove you to the major that you chose? I remember thinking what is a major that I can do that I can still be involved in a lot of different things. And so I thought in business, I could work for a company that was in agriculture and anthropology and high-tech. I remember thinking, well, if I do business, I can go into any type of different company. I also knew that I loved the international space. That was a big part. At first, I wanted to be an ambassador. That was what I wanted to do. And so I thought about international studies and I was an international studies major for a bit. But I thought, well, if I do business and I do an international business degree, that keeps the door open that I can also do something international. I was super lucky when I was 19. I won the McCord Scholarship, which is a scholarship in Eller, and that sent me to India. Wow. And I was there for one semester and that completely changed my entire life. The whole trajectory of everything I did was was from that, because I had traveled before, but never by myself, without my parents or family. And I had never been in Asia. And so now I'm in a situation where I'm in India. I'm in normal dorms. I'm taking classes from, there was a U of A professors, but also Indian professors. And it just changed my entire life. You know, you and I have something in common because I had a very transformative experience traveling to India after this is after I got my PhD over there. And just being in a culture where it's so different. And we can talk a little bit more about that later as you spoke about yesterday and our convocation was just eye-opening to me. And it really changed the trajectory of how I think about things for sure. So when you so you graduate, you graduate with honors from the honors college here at the University of Arizona, now the Frank Yarners College. You know, what did you do then? And then we're going to build up to I think a really interesting story. What was your pathway right after graduation? Before I say that, I have to give another cred to the honors college. That was my sophomore year and my junior year through the staff of the honors college I applied for the critical language scholarship. And that was to Korea. And that was the honors college. And I I give credit to that. Like they really helped me and supported me through that application. So I went to Korea for 10 weeks and didn't intensive Korean language. And that was the first language that I had ever even dabbled in that wasn't with our alphabet. You know, I grew up in Tucson. People speak Spanish. You practice your Spanish. But Korean now that's a very different language. And to right when you get off the plane in the Korean language, in the critical language scholarship, it's all in Korean. And that was totally wild. They send you to not Seoul. You were a place where there's a lot of English speakers. They take you to Junju, Korea, Central, South Korea. And that was also just very transformative for me. Like just a totally different experience. And I loved it. And honors college helped me get there. That's fantastic. I, Korea is a place I've always wanted to go to ice. I studied a little bit of martial arts, Taekwondo, and I was a teenager. And so we learned a little bit of Korean as part of that, but how to count to 10 and a couple of words. Nothing, you can't communicate. But that's a dream place for me that I'd love to go to. So you have these great experiences, the honors college, two trips, amazing. You graduate, obviously, you've got the bug now to travel international. That's established. So can you talk now-- you go on to the workforce. It gets real now, right? You've got to get a job. So talk a little bit about that transition and then what happened kind of from there. Yeah, I never answered your question. So I got a job in IT consulting, which was very cool, because I did a lot of traveling domestically, but I was on a plane every week going to a new place, which was very cool. It was interesting because I got to travel. And when you're in consulting, you're going to a bunch of different companies that are all different types of companies, medical device companies, and oil and gas. And I went to a company that did manufactured diving boards, just all different types of stuff in different states. And I was really liking it because it was technical, and also I got to travel. But while I was doing that, I was also thinking, how do I go abroad? What about graduate school? And I saw this program in the Fulbright for doing your masters through the Fulbright in Korea. So while I was doing consulting, I was also applying for that. I want to give credit to the Honors College again, because I was not a student. I was an alumni at that time, and I came back to the Honors College and said, hey, I know I'm not a student here, but would you guys help me with my application? And the Honors College took me back in and helped me with the application, and I won, and ultimately stopped consulting and went to South Korea again this time in Seoul, and was there for two years from my master's program. That is fantastic. And that was through our Office of Nationals and Competitive Scholarships, which by the way, we work a lot with Fulbright applicants who have graduated, who are-- so there's no age limit. You don't have to be a student here, current student, to participate in that programming and to get our support. So you did the Fulbright that was two years. What-- do you have any main takeaways from that experience? Was there any kind of things you really remember that were impactful? So the program was in Korea, but it was an international school. So I was in English. There was 450 students from 65 countries. And that was exactly where I wanted to be. I mean, I'm in Korea, but also your classmates are-- I remember the guy on your left is from Chile. The girl on your right is from Vietnam. And we're all studying basically business. The degree there is called Global Economy and Strategy, which is exactly what I loved, because I love economics. I love numbers. I also like history. And so Korea is so fantastic for anyone who's interested in how do places develop. At the end of the Korean War, Korea was the 10th poorest country in the world, 1953. Today, they're the 10th richest country in the world. How did they do that? It's just an incredible story. And anyone who's interested in economics or development in general, Korea is definitely a case study. So to go and study global economics with a bunch of people from around the world and use Korea as a case study, I mean, nothing was better than that. Yeah, that's really interesting. I think Japan made it similar sort of rebound after World War II. So both those two countries showed such a resilience after such devastating wars. So when I find interesting about living in another country for not-- it's one thing to go there for 10 weeks, which is fantastic, or a semester like our students do. But that's a big difference between that and two years. I mean, you really are settled in at that point. That's become your reality. How did living in Korea for two years change you? It had to have changed you in some way that is still enduring. Is there a way they did? Definitely. I mean, being a broad like you said definitely changes you. I think there's just different cultural things that you learn about. I think language is different. I told a story, which I'll just tell again, something that's very basic in America is sometimes at night. Streets can be dangerous. I remember I had a tutor in Korea. She was a student. She was young. I said to her, we go leave the coffee shop in its dark outside. And I say, can I walk you home? And she said, why would you walk me home? And I said, well, just to make sure you got home safely, why would I not get home safely? Oh, well, no reason. I just wanted to make sure you're OK. Why would I not be OK? And this kind of goes back and forth until she thinks, like, I'm trying to go home with her. And it's like, no, that is not what I meant. I'm just trying to make sure you're OK. And that was such an epiphany moment. Like, wow, there is 53 million people living in Korea who can't even conceptualize of the idea that you wouldn't get home safely. And I just thought like every American-- and not just American people around the world-- they know you kind of got to be careful sometimes upon where you're at, where you live. No one in Korea thinks about that. And what weight off your shoulder to just never worry about getting home safely or people you care about are getting home safely. And so that's why I love traveling because you kind of have these epiphany moments of like, oh my gosh, people don't carry that weight on them or this is different. And that is different. And that's just an experience that I just always remember. Like, wow, hi. I'm so envious of that to never think about safety like that. Yeah. No kidding. That's definitely not our experience in this country. But I love that though, because what you're saying is there are people out there in different cultures and different contexts who just don't have the same experiences we do. It's just not on their radar. And so their day to day activities and how they operate doesn't even have that into the code. And that's really interesting perspective to reflect on. I remember once walking home, there's maybe 10 o'clock at night or something from the university. And I saw a bunch of kids playing outside there maybe like three years old. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like this is-- we got to call someone. Make sure these kids are OK. And then it just hit me like, they don't need-- they don't need to worry about that because it's just such a safe place. And yeah, just-- I'm so envious of that because I just think how much we stress about those types of things. And they don't have to think about it. So yeah, that's the benefits of going abroad as seeing those differences, like you were saying. And just for me, I love those moments of epiphany. Where yeah, wow, that's a-- that's different. So you complete the full bright or you complete this master's degree, then what's on your mind then? Well, it was very cool. So while I was in Asia, during my summer times, I went to China. And so I was there for a few months. And then I'd come back for my semester. And then I'd go again for a few months. So I was in China during the summers, also very different type of place. I think a lot of people kind of think they know-- well, we all think we kind of know-- I know about China. I know about Korea. But once you get there and you do a bit deeper dive into the country or into the place, you realize like, wow, I really didn't know anything before I went. So that was also very impactful to be there, to compare China and Korea to America, but also China's different than Korea. And so after I graduated, I did some traveling in East Asia while I was there. And then I decided, OK, I'm going to come back to US, and I'm going to get a job. And I spent some time looking. I think it depends in the private sector. Sometimes people don't know about full bright. I think the full bright is kind of prestigious in certain circles, but I had many, many interviews where people had never heard of the full bright, especially in the private sector, which is where I was trying to go. So it took me some time to find a job. People asking me, why would you go abroad for your masters? America has the best masters programs. Why would you go abroad to do it? And so I was kind of on the defensive in so many of my interviews. And I know that those experiences being abroad really helped me, and I wouldn't trade them. But at that time, when you're 25, and you don't have that much experience, and you're saying, I went to Yonsei University, and they say, what's that? It was kind of hard to-- I had to really sell myself. But eventually, I'd found a company in Silicon Valley. They know about Korea. They're Korea is a big part of the Bay Area. And I was able to leverage that experience, and get a job as an entry-level supply chain analyst in the semiconductor company there. And as a supply chain analyst in this data analytics work that you do, it's sort of a day to day thing. What is that kind of? How does that look? I'm always curious about this because I've met other people who are data analysts. And I'm not sure I fully understand what that sort of work is like. Could you kind of like, you know, sustainably tell us, like what is the day of a data analyst? Sure. It's definitely a broad term. I get that. In many companies, I mean, there's, it could be, you could be analyzing lots of different type of data. In supply chain, you can imagine all these parts, you know, to build a semiconductor or depend on what you're making. There are so many processes happening all around the world. And all of it comes into one system, hopefully, which is like an ERP system and enterprise resource planning system. And you can imagine that it would be quite confusing to look at data. Let's say that some chip is being manufactured and step A of the chip is being done in China and and step B is being done in Korea. And step C is being done in Taiwan. And because these chips are so small, actually, the economics work where you can literally fly these chips from country to country to do different steps. And by the end of this, this little chip that's going to go in your phone has been to five different countries. And there's a billion parts and a billion procedures, step A, step B step. And I have all this data. And you need some nerds to kind of get it together and say how, you know, to pay on what you're trying to data mine for, you might say, um, how long are these steps taking or it could be process oriented. Like basically there's all these different steps. And it all just pours into this massive data lake or database. And you need people to kind of mine it to learn about what are these processes like and you're trying to create a dashboard. Some visualization that you can give to an executive so that he or she can look at it and make the best and most informed decision. And it's actually hard. I mean, just a bunch of data that's in a database isn't really that helpful. You can imagine if I give you an Excel with 500 columns and a million rows that actually doesn't really help you that much. It needs someone to to mine it in order to get those insights. So they did a lot of nerds. And that therefore, you know, empowers leadership to make decisions or understand unpacking problems of something happens within that defects to manufacture, et cetera. So it's critical behind the scenes. That's really interesting. So you get into this sort of space. You're working up in the Bay area and then if we kind of move forward, we get up to around 2020, right. And of course, we all know what happens and happened in 2020. I'll never forget it. I was right before spring break and we closed here for spring break. And one of the famous last words, one of my students and of course I was teaching said, Dr. Pollard, you know, what do you, what do you think's going to happen with this pandemic? And I might, I said, ah, they'll, they'll probably be over by spring break, see in a week, famous last words. And of course, we know what happened from there. But this really had a really big impact on your life. So can you talk a little bit about what happened when the pandemic hit and how you kind of transformed that into an experience? Yeah. I, uh, I was in the Philippines. We had a factory in the Philippines. And so I was in the, in the factory in March 2020, February, March 2020. And I heard about COVID. I had heard the name, but I didn't really know much and I was still traveling, obviously. And I didn't know anyone who had ever gotten COVID. And I came, I was in Philippines. I was there working at for work came back to the US and within a week, I got sick. And I remember, you know, I don't really know what it was. And I didn't know if I had COVID. There was no test at that time. And I told my boss, like, oh, I've heard about this thing called COVID. I'm not going to, not going to come to work. Is that okay? I'll work remotely. And he said, yeah, absolutely. And a few days later, the office shut down and I never went back to work. I never went back to the office for five years. Wow. And, um, I mean, I'm in software. I'm on the, you know, I don't necessarily need to be in the, in the company every day. So my job was able to transition. I was sick for probably a month. I, I was sick. I was definitely sick. And, um, I remember calling my doctor afterwards. And saying, Hey, I think I had COVID. I had all the symptoms. And she said to me, this is like April. She said, Oh, well, once you've had COVID once, you don't, you don't need to worry about it. You're good. You're immune. And I said, can I travel now? And she's like, yeah, you're good, which of course, now we know that's, that's not really true. But I at that time, I was thinking, I'm, I'm invincible now. I've suffered through it. I'm good. So while the world was closed, I was feeling very strong. And my lease ended in the bay. And I said, you know, Bay, Bay Ranser are expensive. I'm going to get rid of my lease and I'm going to, you know, I hunkered down for a few months. But after that, I said, I'm going to let the lease expire. I'm going to put everything in storage and I'm going to get in my car and drive around America. And I did that. I would go to a place. I'd book a Airbnb for a month, get the month discount or something. And I would go there and I would live there. And I would still have my job Monday to Friday. I'm working California hours, but it was amazing because once the day was over and I closed my laptop. Now I'm in Bismarck, North Dakota or Oxford, Mississippi or Tampa, Florida. I was in a new place. And I did that for about one year. Then it was just a life changing experience to go to places that you would never really think to go to. I don't think people in San Francisco think I'm going to go live in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. But I did and I loved it. And during that time, traveling around the country, was there, was there a standout experience that you may have had? I'm sure you had multiple, but maybe you could, you know, convey one that you had that really kind of took you by surprise, maybe. I remember, I mean, I think people still say this now, but it's very, it's a common motif in America to think, you know, we are just so divided. All of us are so different east and the west and the rural and the urban and the blue and the red. And, you know, the Bay Area is definitely a bubble of a certain type. And I just wanted to know was that true. And so I wanted to go to places that were the exact opposite of the Bay. And, you know, my takeaway from that is we're not as divided as people think. I think people like to put us in this, in this world of like, you know, we just have nothing in common from the blue states and the red states or the urban and rural. And I just did not find that. And I specifically made an effort to go to places that were not like the Bay Area. I want to go to places that were completely different. And I guess the takeaway from that tramp like, you know, to answer your question is, I was very encouraged by how similar we all are. Of course, there's differences. No doubt. But I felt very happy to see that people are, you know, not as divided that when you, I like to ask questions. So I go to a restaurant and see the person next to me and just start up a conversation or try to get connected to someone through mutual friends or something. And I was very happy and very encouraged to realize like, well, these people are very like, they're similar to me. And I think the division that people talk about is a bit overblown. That is such a good thing to hear. And it's not just an opinion, but a lived experience, which I think is so powerful with that. And so you, you do this for a year now. And then at this, at some point, you decide to level up just like any, any video game. There's another level here. So talk about what the level up was after doing this for roughly a year, traveling around the country, working remotely, Airbnb to Airbnb. And then well, level up. Yes. I mean, America's a great place and there's so many amazing things to see. Even in a year, there's so many places I didn't go. I could have done that for longer. But I met a friend of mine, actually, that was a U of A student and he was also remote now, also a technical person. And we met somewhere and hadn't seen him in a few years and we talked and he said, you know, he was kind of doing the same thing as I was. And he said, hey, I think kind of the world is opening up a little bit. Why don't we go try to do this internationally? And so I was like, okay, can we do that? You needed all these special permissions and test and everything to travel abroad. But we did basically so we gone on a plane and went to Columbia and we're there for a few months. And it's just snowballed and we traveled together for maybe a year and a half or two years. And and some of it was with him. Some of it was not with him, but I was abroad for another three years and Central America, South America. Africa and in Europe. Wow. And so you started in South America. point because you know, South America, wow, that's fantastic. You're up, okay, that can make sense. But then you decided to go to Africa with this. And what was your drive? How did you make that decision and where exactly in Africa did you spend time? I had a full-bright friend who was from France and she was living with her boyfriend who was from America in Kenya. And she said, "I've been living in Kenya. It's such a great place. Come check it out." And so I was like, "Okay." So I booked an Airbnb through someone and moved tonight. I mean, moved. I was there for two months, something like that. And that just started the, you know, I'm going to go to the place that's very different. I don't know much about, I never been to East Africa. I didn't know much about it. And I'm just going to go do it. And I love Nairobi. Nairobi is an incredible place. I can see why people want to go there. People kind of now think of it as, "I want to go to Nairobi to do safaris and things like that." But the city itself is incredible. The people are incredible. People they want to work and they want to better their lives and they're interested in the tech they're interested. And I just felt so at home in Nairobi and I really loved the entrepreneurial spirit. I think there's like a joke in East Africa about Kenyans work the hardest. And just there. I think when I was there, they were like, "Where the hustle people are something?" I was like a joke about it there. And everyone I met who was a new bird driver was, you know, I'm talking to them and they would say, "Oh, I'm just doing this for a little bit because I want to start my own accounting firm. I want to start this other business." And I just thought, "This is incredible. I love the people. I love the work ethic. I love the interest in technology. I saw when I was there, you know, I'm just kind of like pinging people. Hey, I saw, you know, we have a mutual friend. Can I get a tour of the software lab at University of Nairobi?" Something like that. Throughout these trips, I was trying to meet local people. I was like a big part of it. Or any network that I had just trying to meet local people. And I was so impressed with Kenya in general. It gets an incredible place. And also too, when you go to obviously to Nairobi, you are just racially a minority, right? And what can you describe with that experience as like being, you know, you being a white man in this country where you could very well be in a large-trot BB only person who is white. What was that like? I mean, I think when you travel to places, you're the minority and you might be the minority when you're walking down the street in China, yeah. Or Korea or in South America. I remember being, moving away for a sec. But I remember being in Chile with one of my best friends who came and visited me. And he's half Taiwanese and half Syrian. And that mix kind of looks Chilean. And so when we were walking together, he didn't know any Spanish. He took French and at U of A. And so when we're walking down the street together, I do not look Chilean at all. And so everyone would direct the questions in Spanish to him. And I would answer. And people would say, why is the white guy answering the questions in Spanish? What about the Chilean? And so, you know, it's just a funny thing and people were so accepting and interested of what am I doing there. And because I'm curious, I was asking them, tell me about your country. And that's one of the things I love about travel is we kind of think, oh, Kenya. But it's not Kenya. It's like there's so many different tribes and they're different and that affects the politics and that affects where they live. And the society is different. It's not this, it's not just Kenya. There's many, once you get there and you start talking to people, you realize all the different layers. People in the East, they have people, jokes about people on the West and same thing that every exists in all the different countries and to go there and kind of learn those jokes and learn the difference is very fun. And I thought, I thought I just thought I'm so, I'm so bullish on Kenya. I saw that when I was there, Google made their Africa headquarters in Nairobi and I could be wrong about this. But many NGOs, I think the Red Cross is there, like as they're Africa, the headquarters. And I can see why I just think it's so great. And you know, you spoke yesterday at the convocation, this concept or idea of understanding the bubble you're in and what it's like to other people to enter your bubble, but to enter other people's bubble. And you told a story, I'm hoping you could kind of relay that story of your travels in Africa. And maybe I'll just kind of let you kind of tell a story because I think this is a great example of understanding other people's experience, perspectives in these bubbles that you talked about. Yeah. I think all of us, you know, including me, like we have these jokes when people come into our bubbles and they say something weird, they say something funny, they say something stupid. And everyone in our bubble would know that that's a stupid thing to say or that's a weird thing to say. And when you go to another bubble, you're the weird one. You're the one who doesn't understand the cultural references or the, or the, you know, the thing that makes that tie the social fabric, you don't understand it. So I think it's very funny. I mean, me included when you're in America or you're in Tucson or whatever people can make a joke. I remember thinking it was so funny as a kid when someone would come to Tucson for the first time and say, I'm really enjoying Tuxen, you know, someone from the Midwest. I remember when I was like 10 and I just thought that was so weird and obviously everyone in Tucson knows that's wrong and we can all laugh kind of at them. And it's when you travel that you realize, well, actually now you're the one that they're telling stories about and you're the one who's the one who doesn't understand what they're talking about. So I think it's great to get out of your bubble and be the stupid one for a little bit and ask some questions that everyone laughs at. I think the story you're referring to is, I remember getting connected to a friend of a friend to this guy I never met him. But we went to lunch together and he was very, very nice. We really hit it off. We're both an IT, both ambitious kind of young people who had a lot of dreams and curiosities and interests. This was in Africa, right? In Africa, in Nairobi and he was telling me that he had recently gotten married and I told him, congratulations, it's great. He said, yeah, she's just a wonderful woman, but it was just so, it was hard in the beginning. And I didn't know what he meant by that. And I said, well, what do you mean? And he said, well, I'm from the Kikuyu tribe and she's from the Lua tribe. So you're going to imagine how tough that would be. And I just sat looking at him. No, I actually have no idea what that means. And it was kind of my turn to be like, oh, I'm the one on the outside of this joke. You know, I'm the one on the outside. And he explained it and he kind of went through and you could tell as he was explaining why this marriage was tough. He had never explained this to anyone because it was so in the cultural fabric. Of course, every Kenyan can understand why this was a difficult marriage. But talking to me, he has to start from the grid like he's talking to a child. And I think that was like an epiphany moment for me, but also kind of for him like, oh, some of the foundational things that we think about. Other people just have no idea what you're talking about and totally lack the historical and cultural context of why that sentence makes any sense. Yeah, that is a great story. And you know, it made me think of a time I traveled to India when I was, before I joined the faculty here at the U of A. I was working for a small startup company. And thankfully someone told, I worked, I had a colleague who was from India who I traveled with over there. So that was a huge house. And you know, this was totally new. And he told me something at the beginning. He said, there's a, and at the time, I had no idea of this. There's a, there's a head movement that, you know, people in India use it. It looks like they're saying no to you like, like this, right? But it's, it's got a more, you know, exactly what I'm talking about. It's like a, a little more of a wobble to it. And it's hard because it's, it's sort of acknowledgement the way when someone's talking to you and you kind of go like this. It looks like we can imagine you're talking to somebody and they're going like this to you. It's hard to like work through that. So thankfully, he told me about this because it's exactly what my experience was. And I couldn't imagine if I didn't know that having to try to ride that through would have been interesting. Exactly. So same kind of thing with that. So, so you, you do this international travel that the pandemic just completely launches this excursion, this experience for you. And really just is a continuation. I feel of the manifestation of your curiosity, which is big. So the pandemic now starts to settle down, right? Now going back to work is, you know, kind of this. So how is that transition for you now that, you know, the travel is sort of over at least not what it used to be. Definitely. Earlier this year, the company said, no, no. No more, you gotta be in the office three times a week. So party was over. So definitely big change in the last, I mean the last five years were very different now I'm stationary. I spent that time kind of reviewing my journals and things like that and I'm trying to kind of get all these stories and all these ideas on paper. I launched like a sub stack which has 20 viewers and 20 subscribers or something but kind of three page essays of epiphany moments, something where you're overseas or you're in a new bubble and just like, whoa, you kind of, you're shocked. And so now that I can't travel, I can still kind of think about this and try to get all of my thoughts together. So I've been doing that but still, I mean I still have the same belief which is every week you should be doing something completely new. And so there's millions of sites you can go see what city you're in and look and there's going to be an event for a Persian New Year or a new museum in town or a new play or something. So every week I have a role, I'm going to a new place, I'm going to do something new. And another lesson that I kind of learned is people think when I say something like I was in Kusko for a month, people just think that is absolutely insane. Why would you be in Kusko? You know, I saw Machu Picchu, you only need two days for that. And I feel like that's like many people think that. And what I've learned in this adventure is there is so much more to do than you think. If you right now someone knows a little bit about Kusko, they know Machu Picchu's there. And they think I can do that in two days. Oh, not sure. You can do that in two days. But there is so much more to do in any place that you live. And I hear people say that, you know, there's nothing to do in Tucson. That is completely absurd. There is so many things to do in Tucson. I've lived in Tucson for many, many years. I had never been the globe. So I went two weeks ago to globe. There's in this fascinating, the history and the, you know, the history is completely different than Tucson. And I had never been there. And it was awesome. And I've lived here a million years. So I guess what another kind of takeaway is there is so much more to do in any place that you go, in any place that you travel to. And there's always events where you can learn things and go do things. So yeah, I'm not, I'm not a brawn like I used to be, but I'm still trying to do as best I can to have new experiences to get outside your bubble. And I think it's not as hard as people think. You can get out of your bubble even in your own hometown. And I love that because before we started recording, you were talking about, you know, like I asked you sort of like, what is a hobby of yours and your hobby? Sort of what you said, which was just sort of the realization of this curiosity. Like you said, going to look to see what's going on with something I've never done before. And of course, when you do, when you live like that, there must be times like, oh my gosh, that was amazing. And there also must be times you're like, huh, okay, whatever, right? I mean, it goes both ways. It's part of the insight though. Yeah. You go to a place and you think, oh, that didn't really strike me in any particular way. I wasn't interested in that. And that's fine. That's like people go to art museums and sometimes a painting of a particular type really moves you and you feel so, so affected by it. And sometimes you see another piece of art and it doesn't do anything for you. And that's, that's okay. And that's not even bad. It wasn't bad. It wasn't a waste of your time to look at a piece of art that didn't move you. And so, yeah, it's part of learning about yourself, but also even if you just learn a few new things, you didn't like globe at all, but you learned a few new things about mining towns in the 1800s and you left that knowledge or that, you know, that understanding might be able to help you later down down the road. Well, looking ahead to the future, Wesley, like, what are some things you've done a lot? You've traveled a lot. Your curiosity continues to go, do you have things, plans in the future? I mean, obviously, I think these journals, it sounds like you might be teeing up kind of more formally putting this into a book or something like that. Is there some other kind of experience, travel or something that you're really starting to think about over the next, like, say, 10 years? I don't think I have a specific travel plan that I'm trying to do. I am trying to get more into writing. As I said, I'm an analytics nerd. I'm a numbers person. I want to study economics and stuff like that. So writing is not really, or even podcasting like this is not really the space I grew up in. I'm not even sure it's really what I'm good at. So I'm not sure what's the avenue or the mechanism to go through it. But I do think that I would like to be involved in this kind of space and also just the idea of encouraging other people to get outside of their bubble. One thing I hear societally is people say stuff like if you change your mind on a particular topic or issue or thought or political position or anything, it's kind of seen as a negative, like a flip flop or something like that. You changed your mind. I heard you say a year ago that you didn't like that restaurant, something. I just completely disagree with thinking like that. Why would it be bad to change your mind about something? I had a perception about this country, this person, this place, this idea, this political position, sociological position, whatever. And I experienced something new and I talked to new people and I read a new book and I listened to a new podcast and now I've evolved. And so that's kind of a macro, you know, that's not in any, that could be applied to business or to politics or to your own life. I hope to try to, I'm still figuring out how do I want to express these types of takeaways that I've had. When someone tells me I haven't changed my position on this in 30 years, I don't think of that as a virtue. I think you haven't learned anything new in 30 years to maybe evolve your position a little bit. And so that's just a cultural thing I'm kind of fighting about. I don't want it to be seen as a bad thing if you tell me five years ago you thought X and now you thought why? To me that sounds like a type of growth. But sometimes I think people interpret it in a negative way. I absolutely love that. And when we talk about our, one of our values and honors, which is we evolve, you just summarize that perfectly. And that curiosity to be opened like that is such a critical feature that boy more people could be like that. And not changing your mind is not a weakness. This actually is strength. And so I really appreciate that. And I think that embodies this intense curiosity that's driven your entire journey up to this point. Leslie, and I think that's why you embody what's best and what it needs to be an honors grad here from from the Frank Yano's College University of Arizona. Well, it's been a complete honor to be, to have this conversation with you, to have you on here. And I want to extend, pre-extend the invitation when the book comes out that you come back for sure to talk about that. Because that's just what, where this sounds like this is projecting. The story already wrote itself. It's just a matter of you getting it on paper or computer, whatever. You know, we'll see if I have the writing skill set. I'm not sure I do, but I'm trying to formulate my thoughts. I suspect it's going to be okay. So thanks again. Appreciate the time. It's been an honor. And I look forward to chat with you again soon. Thank you very much. Are you a current or former student thinking about applying for a full-bright scholarship? If so, connect and apply to the Office of Nationally Competitive Scholarships. Applying through the campus process gives you access to personalized advising, feedback, and a strong campus network to help you put forward your most competitive application. The link to apply is in the episode description. Thanks for listening to today's episode of It's An Honor. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with others, or leaving us a rating and review. If you want to stay up to date with the latest episodes, you can subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts. We are excited to continue these conversations, and your support means the world to us. Thanks again for listening. [MUSIC]