Cult Beauty: Cult Conscious

[Music] From consumer insights across the world to the latest tactics and trends, you're listening to leap into luxury, the GoTo marketing podcast for luxury brands. I'm Natalie and today we're talking to Alicia from Cult Beauty, one of the UK's fastest growing online beauty businesses. Cult Beauty was established in 2008 with the aim to simplify her and beauty retail online. Thanks for joining us, Alicia. Gladly to be here. Thank you. So good to have you here. This is one we've been really excited about. Thank you, me too. Certainly is. So, founding a business built on transparency was pretty ahead of the curve back in 2008. Do you want to tell us a bit about what led to the kind of founding of Cult and why they wanted to launch a brand like that? Absolutely. So, Lex and Jess kind of met very randomly all the way back in 2008 and it was all kind of quite, nothing about it was planned. Anyway, they started talking about beauty as you do when you meet a woman and they were like, you know, how many thousands of pounds have we wasted on beauty products that probably haven't really worked? You know, the pseudo science, the prescriptive nature of it, they were just like, I think, you know, we can do better, we can make a place where everything is curated, it's edited, it's been checked by beauty experts and they really just wasn't that place. And so, they said about doing that back at a time when people always said, women will never shop and people will never shop for beauty online. You know, this department store, era, you're dreaming, like you're never going to have this huge behavioral shift to shopping for beauty and wellness online. But, you know, they didn't believe it and so they were easy to imagine. I know, it's crazy to believe that that was not a thing. It's not gonna look good even in lockdown. I know. Well thank God, that was way before we even knew what lockdown was. So, that was really the crux of it and they be transparency piece was crucial to really getting to read out what worked, what didn't work. You know, CoptBD was the first business to publish ingredients lists. You know, before that again. That's why I didn't know that. Yeah, brands were just like, you know, I mean, not that I know anything about what I read. No, I need to do, I still don't know what the words mean, but at least they're there and you could research them if you wanted to. But, you know, so that really, was that transparency piece was the bedrock and so, you know, the mission, which is the same as it is today, is to be the most trusted beauty retailer in the world. So, I think it's great as well because, like you say, I kind of grew up in that era when called launched and I like beauty. I'm really interested in it, but I don't know the science behind it. I've worked in beauty for 10 years and I still don't know the science behind it to be honest. And so you kind of at the mercy in that era of trusting beauty editors, which, you know, is it a PR sample that they're kind of being pushed or is it something they really believe in? Like there was no way of gauging what was and was not an effective product and could really change that. It was so game changing, which is, it kind of gives the power back to the consumer. And that was exactly the point. And, you know, Lex always used to say, this should be a place for beauty, it's the beauty obsessed, you know, the skin to lectures, which is a term that she coined. She was so good at that. She coined quite a few actually, but that was the one that really stuck in actually. I don't think she ever sort of went into copyrighting it or anything like that, which she should have done. But it's so good. But for those people who are so clued up, who did the research as well as for the beauty confused, you know, people going, "Hi, what are we supposed to do? Like what is my skin type? What is the difference between dry and dehydrated?" So, you know, cult was built to be that home where you could come in. And wherever you are in that spectrum, you know, you'd feel at home there. It like democratises beauty. You don't, you don't need a biochemistry degree. You kind of go in there and it really, it's like here is what we have. And anyone can decipher this. But it's also giving the consumer credit. So you're listing those ingredients, you're talking about them and you're giving them the opportunity to learn about them, which is which is epic. Instead of just being like, you don't need to know this because you won't understand it. Exactly. Instead of treating you like, you know, a mindless consumer, cult beauty has been like, well, here's the information. You make the call. You do the research. And naturally, you know, as the years have gone by 15 years later, I think the beauty customer is so much more naturally clued up and interested than, you know, you know, back in 2008. But cult really was at the forefront of giving them, serving their information, stopping to treat women like, and you know, I say women, but obviously men and everyone can shop on cult beauty. So that kind of that level of transparency that you've been offering in an innovative way, let's be honest, since 2008, when when others weren't, I mean, why do you think this was so appealing to consumers at the time? And still today, I mean, why do you think this is such a topic that people want to be involved in or want to be talking about? Because genuinely trends come and go, but things like trust and transparency, they never got out of start. They are constants in our lives and they're things that we're all, you know, looking for. And beauty such a personal purchase, you know, it's, it can't, doesn't get more personal. It goes onto your skin, into your bloodstream, on your body, you know, it's part of an expression of who you are. So, especially with new launches and new products, they just think that is, it's just a bedrock, you know, it's like, it's not a trend. And so still today, that's what we're known for, hopefully. And that's why people keep coming back to us. Yeah, and I think it fosters trust between you as a brand and the consumer as well. I think a lot of kind of businesses can fall into the trap of seeing things as a transaction, but with, especially with a product as personal as beauty. I don't know that as a consumer, I engage with the brands I'm buying from like that. It feels more personal than just a transaction. And I think the transparency really lends itself to that relationship. Absolutely. There's an emotional connection with beauty, you know, that you just don't really get with a lot of other end user products. It's, you know, we still get a buzz in the office when a new brand launches when exciting innovation comes in or something. We still all get so excited, you know, and it's that it's, we want our customers to feel that as well. So if we don't have that buzz and that excitement in the office about a product or a brand, then we're not going to, we're not going to take it equally that curation piece, you know. So we are really well known for curating and not always taking an entire edit from a brand. And we will cherry pick our buyers, we'll cherry pick, you know, the best of that cult brand, you know. And that's why it's cult piece. I remember before I started working at cult and I was a fan and a customer of theirs for a few years before I got the job there. And I would always read that why it's cult description. And I kind of wouldn't really pay attention to much else because as a well, if the cult team have chosen it and they've told me why, then I trust it. Is that your best friend telling you? Yeah, absolutely. It's like, yeah, I know, and like, or something new came out and I'll be like, okay, well, I'll check if it's on cult first, because if it is, then I know that it's good to do it. That's the all the stamp that I need. So when I got the job there, I was like, oh my god, it's the dream. I'm called approved. Exactly. I'm called approved. Interviewed by Lex Stamp, or Pico. I do think, because as well, these products, you kind of grow up with them. They go on a journey with you so there's like a real, yeah, it's just nice to have your best friend cult telling you what to buy and then that goes with you for the next 10 years. Exactly. Okay, so in a bid to kind of build on that relationship with your consumers, you've just relaunched cult conscious for those who aren't in the know, what is that and how does it work? Yeah, so cult conscious launched about four years ago, and in a nutshell, it is our transparency initiative. So we were, as I said, we were first launching ingredients lists and we were like, right, how do we evolve that as the world is changing around us, greenwashing is right. You know, how do we sort of as cult be that market leader and really take control of that? So essentially, we work with provenance, which is a blockchain software company. And in simple terms, they fact check a brand's sustainability claims. So if a brand is claiming that they're vegan or organic, they have to submit evidence or third party verification to say, yes, we absolutely are. This isn't just something that our marketing team have dreamt up and wish was true. You know, here it isn't black and white and then it's served in a proof point on the site, which is a little button on a product page, which our customers can click on and verify the information for themselves and lives in the blockchain. It's untamplable. Once it's in there, it's in there. And if something's changed, you know, changes further down the line, there's a new record, but you can't ever sort of change what is initially put in. That's amazing. Which is the beauty of blockchain. Which I still don't also really understand. We're nodding. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so those proof points, and you mentioned greenwashing, did those proof points come out of kind of a frustration with industry-wide greenwashing out there? I'm talking, you know, the forest, you know, the tree planters and the bee sponsors, you know, this kind of, well, I'm Let's see on this, this kind of, I recognize the consumer cares about the environment, therefore we'll do something sort of environmentally friendly, but not really. I mean, it's, yeah, I mean, this come out of that frustration. Absolutely. And, you know, four years ago, even then, it was, I guess the first in the industry, you know, we were pioneers in the beauty industry. Food was doing it a little bit, but there was just clearly a huge gap between what customers were looking for and what information was available to them in this space. We did a survey recently that said 80% apologies, not we, proven instead of surveys, which I was a part of and copy, we were a part of, but beauty consumers and 80% of the people they surveyed said that they had no trust in beauty brand sustainability claims. 80%. Well, the consumers are so savvy these days. As soon as they sniff something that's up, they know about it. And that's why this green washing has even become a thing because modern consumers, especially Gen Z, they're hot on this stuff and they pick it up very quickly and those people who are kind of, I'm feigning that kind of care, really get flatched straight away. And there's like, because this generation or this up and coming generation cares so much about these social causes, about purpose driven kind of brands, that it's more than just the product that they're buying from them, but they're buying into a lifestyle and into a brand's ethos. Totally. And they're smart, they're quick to understanding when it's false and when it's real. And they're quick to call you out, you know, and like TikTok as well. Like, I'm told to be on TikTok, but I'm on it. I'm on it. I'm on it. I'm enjoying us all these. I'm enjoying it. Coming in the water. I mean, I'm worried I'll spend too much of my life down there, but I'm at holes. You know, I was reading a report the other day and it was saying that people are using TikTok as a search engine. It's a normal search engine. It's very fine. Information and fact checking things and, you know, there are so many normal people out there as well as content creators and influencers that will call you out on stuff. And you know, it's just, it's just, is it really worth the reputation or damage? I do want to hasten to add though that I really don't believe that most brands are intentionally greenwashing. I think there are a number of factors at play. I think some of them, there's a disconnect between product development teams and marketing teams. There's information and knowledge gaps, regulatory lapses, maybe not tight enough regulations. I suppose operationally as well. Operationally. Operationally. It's kind of, you know, about the same thing over years. Absolutely. Especially for, you know, the more established brands. So, you know, I think there are a number of reasons why it can happen. And I do believe that, you know, maybe this is like the softy and like goody in me. But I do believe that most companies and brands want to do the right thing. You know, I do. And so, but, you know, for those people that are brands that don't yet have everything in place and, you know, 100% fact checked. This is where provenance and the culture's relationship comes in because we have had instances where brands have come in thinking that they can claim a certain proof point, a certain sustainability claim and provenance will interrogate the evidence and go, actually, that's not quite right. Or that regulation has changed so there's no longer fits. So, it's been a really educational process for some brands as well. I think that's it. It's quite positive, isn't it? Because, I mean, let's face it, even in the last like five or ten years, like this is something that is changing constantly. It was not, when I started my career, it wasn't even part of the conversation really, show my age. And now brands, these huge brands with like hundreds and hundreds of employees are expected to be agile enough to just quickly keep up with things like, yeah, without being naive or kind of overly understanding, it's a big ask for these companies. And I'm sure that most of them are not operating in malice. We are all trying to do our best. Yeah. But is that what we're doing? In your opinion, is that where we're seeing a shift kind of in modern consumers moving away from those heritage and kind of staple brands to explore those more agile and ethical alternatives? Is this kind of an opportunity where newer and younger and fresher brands can have, you know, their chance in the spotlight, I suppose. And there's a space where they can easily move into with these new claims versus those kind of those heritage brands. Yeah. And the incumbent brands definitely have the advantage of the knowledge that we have today, you know, being like, it's table stakes to use a project management term, you know, like that's just, it's just has to be on the table. You have to be cruelty free. You have to, you know, vegan is, you know, a huge search term and growing all the time, you know, organic and natural beauty. We're seeing huge growth in that at the moment as well, which is super interesting. So they definitely have an advantage because they know that that has to be built in and younger consumers, millennials, and that's what they're looking for. But the heritage brands, you know, they, they heritage for a reason, right? They've been around for a long time. They can, they move slower just by nature, that there's so much bigger. But you use them because your mum use them because you're not. Exactly. And they still, they have something, you know, I think of a brand that we recently launched, which is a brand I've loved and wanted on called for ages. Shall I say that? Yeah, please. Okay. Sizzly Paris. Oh, yeah, I love that. Wonderful heritage, you know, launched in the 70s, you know, beautiful stories, still kind of family brand, you know, a huge sort of output, if you like, that's the right terminology. But you know, a wonderful big brand. They will be slower to sort of change their systems and proceed. They're doing an amazing job. They really are. But they, they're a disadvantage to a young quick upstart, who has already got it baked in. But, you know, when a brand like Sizzly or another heritage brand does make a difference, that incremental difference, the impact of it is huge. I think like, I mean, it's hard as well. These kind of, these companies, they obviously have shareholders to whom they're responsible. The whole B-Corp situation, I think, is a really good step forward, because then it's kind of taking the responsibility back to the companies that achieve that status to put sustainability at the forefront. But if it's, if it's an older heritage brand, like ultimately, their priority is and should be shareholders, like they can't just stop putting profit at the forefront. That's why they exist. Absolutely. And, you know, I think you'd sort of said or mentioned somewhere, you know, should we all be doing, like, you know, a big, petagonia style of, you know, sacrificing the profits? No. Because otherwise, they wouldn't be any businesses left. Yeah. They wouldn't be no positive impact to make. And, you know, we're all also humans and people and we all want to have a good quality of life. And that comes from a business being profitable. Yeah. It's not the enemy. It's, I think, balancing the purpose with the profit, with the people, you know, all those peas, you know, magazines, which is difficult because also sadly sustainable practices are not yet many of them and not yet at a point where they are economically viable choice either. So, it's a huge investment from brands to make that choice, which is why, with cult conscious, we want to elevate and support those brands that are making those investments, that are going at the extra mile to do the right thing to, you know, switch out that packaging because it's, you know, it's not, you know, good for the environment. And we want to be able to say to our customers, this is a good thing, you know, here it is because otherwise, it's lost in some copy on a page somewhere else. And, you know, like I mentioned with beauty, it's so personal that you definitely have a section of conscious beauty customer who seeks that out first. Yeah. And that's growing all the time. But you still make the choice. I often still make a beauty choice based on efficacy, based on a review or a recommendation. Yeah. And then I look at, okay, what is it, you know, what are its credentials, sustainability credentials? So, we, yeah, there are so many factors at play. I'd say it depends what your core non-negotiables are. So, you know, vegans, they will not use something that is not vegan. Yeah. Or, yeah. And it's those things you will not waver on. And everybody's got those different things. I mean, I've got friends that will not buy anything where the company does not openly support pride or just not, you know, and it's those kind of social, you know, it's making a statement. And it's arguably probably less so now, but making a statement at the risk of their own profits. So, it's not necessarily giving away, but it's not Patagonia style giving away the profits. But it's like, we stand for this. Use us, don't use us. Yeah. Are you seeing that translate at all in purchasing decisions for your consumers? Yeah, absolutely. So, we see a lot of traffic on the most sort of widely known proof points, shall we say. So, you know, cruelty free, vegan, the recyclable, those are very much, you know, in the customer, beauty customer consciousness. And so we see a lot of traffic on those. We're seeing a lot more interest in natural and organic beauty. We're also seeing growing and sustainable. interest in customers searching for black owned beauty brands as well, which is super interesting and something that we really support and are working on really hard and in cop beauty across a number of facets. The most interesting step that I've been a little bit sort of resistant to using but it's been the same way now for over 18 months is that products with proof points are performed those without proof points by 34%. So I will caveat that by saying obviously there are so many factors that go into purchasing decisions and purchasing drivers but the numbers speak for themselves you know so whether that's you know other factors coming in like promotions or you know reviews and but outperforming by 34% with proof points versus nuts is incredible. So is there a generational split there? Definitely so Mackenzie actually did also and the reason I'm sort of using this a lot more confidently these days because Mackenzie did this five-year report and they looked at ESG claims in the US and they also said they've seen the same correlation brands and products that have ESG claims outperform those without and that's across a multitude of categories, sectors etc. And there is generational split and we're definitely seeing that Gen Z millennial customers have said that they prepared to pay more for sustainable beauty products so that's super interesting. It's so interesting and I think as well like in kind of previous years it's been quite easy to just write off Gen Z but now they're the primary driver in growth in beauty and luxury across the board. It's getting to the stage where when you've got stats like that and they're especially driven by a generation Gen Z or Gen A you have to take that into account as a business it's in businesses interests to get these accreditations totally and you touched on it earlier Natalie you said you know our generation particularly I'm assuming we're yes we're generations you know we we might not necessarily shop with sustainability is at forefront in mind but again a recent survey has shown that there's a sway of growing portion of customers who rate sustainability information as the most important factor over reviews so I think the stat was 15% put sustainability information as the most important factor in purchasing decision driver versus 5% for reviews which I was like blown away by because I was just I thought reviews were the like everything yeah I mean I like that's how I shop a lot is what I know but you know but that's what's so interesting in the data is that actually as I said and that number is increasing it's quite hard to think about the thing it is you know like there are people who are really like actually we can make better decisions so let's let's make them yeah yeah so Natalie and I were very fortunate enough to attend a luxury summit a couple of months ago where it was discussed you know this up in coming generation it was discussed in these consumer I'm not going to call them trends consumer behaviors consumer adaptation evolution if you will where this this up and coming generation of consumers actually expect the products that they're buying these days to just naturally have that sustainability element that environmental factor already accounted for that actually shocks on when it does it you know they think that it's it ought to just come by the buy yes absolutely very important is just released in your book about this about conscious business yeah and talking about how it's no longer a benefit to operate transparently and consciously it is going to be an expectation totally totally and that is becoming more and more and more apparent and I think as you know as we say as the years go by as that generation matures as more information becomes available that is absolutely the way that you know we see this going as well it's it's just it has to be done it needs to be done consumers are already demanding it and they're just going to stop demanding in greater numbers so we hope it of a cheeky question and we were obviously acquired by the hook group fairly recently and I was wondering how do you see in much change since then I know we were talking earlier about how being an independent brand can give you more agility especially where sustainability and social causes are kind of concerned have you seen that the acquisition has allowed you to continue with that agile approach or has there been a bit of a change yeah so I mean anyone who's been through an acquisition will tell you that it's it's not easy you know there there's so much change is the rate and the pace of change that you know just a lot of people aren't built for but I'm really really pleased to say that in our case in terms of our sustainability program it has actually been much to our benefit you know when we were building the strategy it was just at the point that we were acquired actually so we were really able to align our priorities very much with THG group strategy and goals and really kind of draw down from them as you know one of this sort of daughter daughter companies child companies I never knew the right words I know child company you know so as the child company feed into the parent company goal so that was really fantastic and I think you know they they've been so supportive of us keeping true to what makes cult cult and a lot of that is our sustainability and social impact programs so you know they very much recognize that we were leading the group in in quite a few areas I'm still rubbing off on on the other. I'm so pleased about it we actually have a you know group proposition now for provenance my vegan have joined in our nutrition division and it's very much spreading the word we have two of our own brand THG beauty brands on provenance as well so hopefully more to join so you know in that respect it's been great and you know again speaking about the impact you can make when you're part of a bigger group is fantastic it is slower you know it is just that's just the nature of it but slower but you've almost got you've got the security in the clout to be able to push you further exactly which is something obviously that we see on a day to day basis you know with these independence or these new up-and-comers you know battling against the laurels and what have you and it's and it is tricky I mean who's who wins at the end I know exactly yeah it is you know so for us it's it's it's been good and like I said they've been really supportive of us sort of carrying on and you know leading the way so you know that the little daughter brand is also influencing the parent brand and vice versa. Do you think that there's there's stuff that the even bigger umbrella brands can take as a learning from that then so I'm talking at the likes of La Rielle, Elie, and Mage, these huge huge brands do you think that some of this some of your learnings could be applied to this? I would really hope so I'd really love to think so I also would never want to profess to know the workings of those amazing conglomerates you know and and you know I'm sure that there's so much I think that we can all share and learn from each other and I think that's the one of the key things that I keep coming back to in this space is that actually you know social impact and sustainability initiatives shouldn't be seen as a advantage or a marketing you know advantage there should be much more open source and shared because we can all learn from each other and actually we can't make the change without each other so I think that would be my sort of call to you know our industry peers and be like let's share more and communicate more and you know maybe not try and frame it as a competitive advantage but you know let's try and make a make a positive impact together that is such a beautiful place to end I know you are a nice positive and it's called a arm let's go well thank you so much for coming in and speaking with us today it's been an absolutely amazing I mean as I said at the beginning of this this was one that we were super excited about we had so many questions you've been very patient thank you it's been a pleasure thank you for having me and the excitement continues because Alicia's actually joining us for another episode later this series so if you enjoyed today make sure you're listening to the series as we go on