Cult Beauty: Can’t (Re)Touch This

[Music] From consumer insights across the world to the latest tactics and trends, you're listening to leap into luxury, the go-to marketing podcast for luxury brands. I'm MJ and today we're joining Alicia from Cult Beauty, who is talking to us about their revolutionary new campaign, can't retouch this. Welcome back Alicia. Thank you so much. Glad to be back. Glad to be back. Glad to not sick of us yet. Absolutely not. So we can do this all day. So you've just launched a really exciting new campaign, can't retouch this. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about it and what led to the idea of the concept? Absolutely. So we were super super excited about this one. It's our first sort of brand values campaign since we've been acquired two years ago. So we were like super super passionate about getting it out there. And basically the campaign has been rooted in our values really, and the things that we care about as a business. So community, mental wellbeing, and that transparency piece, of course, you know, that that cult is built on. And we had a partnership with Mental Health UK in place because of that mental wellbeing, such a core pillar for our team and something that we really wanted to get behind as a cause. And I was thinking about how do we kind of bring this to life? You know, how do we, you know, connect the beauty world and our cause that we care so much about? And one day, as if by magic, a report by MNC Sartre landed in my inbox. It was called Beyond Beautiful. It was a fantastic report. And basically in there, they had so many interesting and quite frankly shocking stats as well about the beauty industry, about the state of the mental health of young people and how it's being impacted by all these unrealistic images that they see. I mean, I think we're three women in here. We can be honest and open and say that we've not been untouched by this kind of thing. Oh my God. Anyone who has an absolutely. Absolutely. So we all have, and you know, we're always second guessing and second questioning, whether you post a picture that doesn't have a filter on it, you know. It's just become so ingrained in us. So the report really resonated and I was like, this is so aligned to our values. This is something we have to speak out about. We've already done some campaigns in the past about championing real skin and real people. So it wasn't like we were just, you know, jumping on a trend. And again, that's very important to us to have this rooted in authenticity. And I apologize in advance if I use that word a lot. In this conversation because it really is so crucial to this campaign. It's got a bad rap but it still looks good. It's still a good word. Maybe we, yeah, there's a synonym out there, but you know, it's still a great word. Anyway, we came across in this report mention of Dr. Luke Evans and his digitally altered body image bill. Which I'd never heard of before. And did some digging in some research and was like, oh my gosh, this is. We can definitely get behind this. You know, like we want to support this, raise awareness about it. And that's where it started. Really, we started Dr. Luke's team. Didn't get a response initially. Oh, it was a man. It was a man. And then I followed up again and they were just thrilled and delighted to hear from us. And I'm like, oh my god, lost. And you know, they were so happy to sort of partner with us on this campaign and sort of bring this to. I think a new audience, you know, the bill had been around for a little while. Other companies have done it and signed his pledge. He has a voluntary body image pledge that the likes of, believe it Marx and Spencer and Boots have signed. But you know, aware that Cope Beauty has a different demographic. And that maybe it hadn't quite saturated and reached, you know, those different audiences. So that's where it started, really. So along with this campaign, which is obviously so important and well, epic. Touches me on a personal level. I'm not going to lie. All those years growing up with those like magazines, pre-social media kids. So I don't know if you've heard a lot. But this is a sensitive topic. And I'm actually so glad that brands as well as kind of individuals are tackling this right now, the newer generations. But you've also, alongside this campaign, rolled out a beauty untouched watermark. Why did you feel like this was important to include? Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, we, as you just said, we went overnight from having, you know, photoshopped images in magazines. And you know, very much looking at these images that were. So a lot of them, not real at all, and projecting these images onto us about what we should look like. And then, fast forward a couple of years, and then that same technology was in our hands, you know, ourselves. And we were overnight editing and, you know, removing blemishes and whitening teeth. And we. it just became quite difficult to actually tell the difference of the technology is also progressed so quickly. You know, the, I think it was TikTok that had the bold glamour filter. And it kind of went wild and viral as these things do. And the technology now is so good that you can't tell so that they've kind of kept a little bit of the pause. They've kind of, they've not absolutely made you look completely perfect. They've just, like, made it so you look, quote unquote, better. And that's the danger of better things. There's no such thing as better, but we think there is. Absolutely. And so we thought it was really important as part of this, you know, and it's a little bit corny, but we do refer to internally as a movement because we really believe in it. And it's not just a campaign. It's something that will live in perpetuity, uncopyty, and hopefully many other brands as well. So we wanted to sort of put a stake in the ground and one of the commitments that we made was to watermark our cop beauty shot images so that anyone looking at them will know. And they have that stamp of approval to say, this image is exactly what you see. You can believe your eyes on this one. And just start really, hopefully encouraging other people to join us. I think the education piece is really interesting because, you know, like MJ said, I'm very much of the era where I grew up kind of looking at magazines and TV ads and just thinking that was how women looked. And it was only because I had the kind of fortunate position of being in this industry as I came into my adult years that I realised that these, the supermodels, like the best of the best, even there, not good enough. So like, adverts, so they're getting retouched. The impact that has on how you view yourself when you're looking in the mirror is quite hard to quantify, really. And I think rolling out a campaign like this that strips away all of that magic, that doesn't feel like the right word. But yeah, just kind of lays it bare a bit more and says, you know, okay, yeah, maybe that is still the aspiration, but it's also not real. And that's okay. Like even if you want to look like that, acknowledge that, you know, it's not just, it's not reality. Absolutely. And there's nothing wrong with having aspirations, nothing wrong with wanting to have healthier hair and, you know, clear skin. And we're not trying to say, you know, that that's bad. We're all human. We have these desires, of course, we do. I think what we want to move away from is this standard, this unattainable standard that the beauty industry have been so central in building. You know, some of the stats, I mean, it's just crazy that the number of children admitted for eating disorders on pediatric wards in this country is doubled in three years. That's so awful. And I mean, that's, that's just, that's just the UK nevermind globally. And we're also not sitting here saying that a watermark on an image is going to solve this problem. Absolutely not. You know, there are societal issues that play here, deep rooted cultural, you know, factors that are contribute to this. So we very much know that this is by no means the beginning and end of the conversation. It's the beginning of a conversation. Yeah, but you're taking action and you're and that will have its own effect and hopefully a snowball effect. But do you think other brands or brands, including yourself, have a responsibility to assess that kind of mental impact that their behavior, their communications, their marketing efforts have on their customers? 100% 100% you know, we have a platform, we have an audience and engaged audience, you know, just caught beauty, a lot of, you know, amazing, incredible beauty brands. I absolutely believe it's our responsibility to be marketing responsibly and and showing especially, impressionable young minds, especially as well as the, you know, less young, such as myself. But what, you know, what real is and that doesn't, real also doesn't have to mean not good and not beautiful, you know. So I absolutely think that we have a responsibility to start to reframe this narrative and broaden that definition of beauty. Do you think that will extend beyond just the images? so even going as far as like the language and the concepts that are used around beauty, stepping away from framing something as a flaw, one potentially. Absolutely. And actually that's one of our commitments. We have five key commitments. And one of those was our language as well. So we are currently undergoing a language review. And also very fortunate that our team have always sort of had this ethos in mind. But we're really words change so quickly, our culture changes so quickly, phrases that were acceptable five years ago, maybe not so much anymore. So it's a constant moving feast all the time. But absolutely we want to start to reframe how we talk about these perceived flaws and actually use language in an empowering way. And I think, yeah, again, like beauty industry historically, not been the best in sort of making people feel empowered, you know, and maybe praying a little bit on those insecurities to sell more. And I don't believe that that is the way to go moving forward. Younger people also not going to stand for it. Yeah. I mean, I did. This takes me back actually to our first episode together where I believe you mentioned that the modern consumer is looking to align themselves long term with brands who you share the same values as them and things. And brands kind of have to step forward or seemingly have to step forward right now and say, I believe in this and I'm willing to sacrifice profit for it or some profit for it because this is what our brand ethics are. This is where we draw our line. And you're saying here that these marketing tactics, you know, from 10, 20, 50, 100 years ago have been effective because they feed on or they feast on people's insecurities. Is there going to be an uprising now? Is there going to be an uprising of brands who reject that kind of that method? And are we going to see the sacrifice in revenue from that? I mean, again, I think we did touch on this a little bit in the first episode we did together. And so, on to the first part of your question, yes, I think already is a rising tide of brands who are coming up and rejecting that old narrative, you know, I think of rare beauty as a great example of that, you know, very, very strong mental health advocates and, you know, the way that they frame a lot of their marketing is very much about empowering people. And we have a plethora of wonderful brands on cult that do that as well. So that is changing, you know, inclusion in the beauty space and imagery is vastly improving and getting better. I think what people do want to see though is not just, don't just put a, you know, a multi, multitude of different types of people on an image, and leave it there. You know, people do want to see the action behind the image. Do you need to sacrifice profit for it as well? I don't believe so. I really don't. And I think that's a very sort of archaic way of looking at people, at your customers as well. And I think we often lose sight of that in businesses when we're always looking at the numbers and, you know, those bottom lines and they are important. Of course, they are. But I really believe that if you can be authentic and stay true to your brand, that your profits will benefit the more you are aligned with your purpose. I think also, like, there's, we are living in an age with so much image altering and it's at the hands of not just brands. Like anyone who has a phone can do this now. It may be offers an opportunity to stand out in that landscape. If you are rejecting that process and you are being real, do you think it's going to give you better cut through with audiences? Yeah, I think, you know, again, it has to be something that makes sense for your brand. And, you know, and jumping on a trend because that's what is, you know, going viral at the moment or what again, people will call you out for it. It'll be like, this doesn't make sense to you. And I think I can only ever use cult as an example. But I know we sort of, we get approached a lot by some of our customers saying, "Why aren't you talking about X cause?" Or, you know, this is happening over here. Like, why are you not kind of supporting and talking about that? And it's like, "Well, what right do we have to jump on every single problem or challenge that's going on in the world?" To tick a box. To tick a box. It has to be authentic. It has to be aligned to us. And we also have to be able to back it up with action. And I think I feel for a lot of brands because, you know, you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't. And it's difficult, but I think, you know, for us with the help of, we have to have this incredible, um, D.I. consultant called Fiona Daniel. And she was so incredible and amazing. We sadly don't work with her anymore. But she helped me to devise a sort of critical questionnaire that will help us to decide when we should speak out on a topic and when we should actually just sit back and continue doing and working on the social impacts that we're busy working on. So I would encourage a lot of brands to come up with a sort of similar sort of systems that you can go take a moment, pause. Does this make sense to us? How is this serving our customers? And can we back it up with with any action? Sorry, I feel like there's a little bit of a segue away from that. We touch this, but no, I mean, that's, well, we're talking about, you know, things that, things that society are dealing with right now, these things that we're trying to overcome as a whole, we're trying to overcome these beauty standards, or these, you know, unattainable kind of visuals that we've inferred for our whole childhood supplies and things, and you're trying to be the change that you want to see, and that's phenomenal. A lot of brands wouldn't do that. And to be honest, I imagine as soon as, as soon as the frontrunner, the thought leader kind of comes in and actions these changes, do the rest follow, and do you kind of think that we'll see other brands following suit now? I mean, you've got the likes of Estrid, who are just so wonderfully kind of self-empowering there, and their messaging is, be whoever the heck you want to be. Use our razors, don't use our razors, but we've got razors. Yeah, very pretty. Nice packaging. I use their razors, I think they're great. Venus for 10 years, and then they came along. But how many disruptors until, you know, until you're just another one of the many brands that do that? I mean, how will these brands who follow suit then stand out amongst the noise that follows what you guys are doing as leaders in this space? Yeah, and my gosh, that's a million dollar question, right? I think brands are constantly on hands with everyone's attention. How do we cut through? How do we, you know, how do we sort of, you know, stand out here? And yeah, I don't think there's any one sort of answer to that, really, to be honest, but I think, again, that really is becoming overused. But people will, your customers will resonate with that authenticity, or they won't. And I can think of a few examples recently where brands sort of tried to act on a cause and backfired. And, you know, possibly they didn't think it all the way through, or, you know, it, yeah, so I think how do you stand out once it becomes the norm? Well, you've got to keep innovating, you've got to keep thinking, you've got to keep going back to your customer going, right, okay, how do we evolve this? And what do they want from us? It stems from, I suppose, those brands that create a community that have that kind of long term, I suppose trusted following or the following people that trust them as they brand. And they listen to them and it's a constant communication. It's not what it was 50 years ago, where we tell you, you know, we as advertisers, we as brands tell you you need this, but rather, you tell us what you need and we'll kind of adapt and we'll work together and we'll build out this kind of long-term relationship that we have. And that's what the modern consumers are looking for, is that, you know, to find their pack. Exactly. And they're finding it online more and more so, which is why this was such a huge success online, which is amazing. Yeah. I mean, I guess as this kind of approach to advertising and business in general becomes more common, do you think we're going to get to a point where this kind of transparency will become regulatory? And if we open, you know, a social media app, it will be expected and demanded that there is transparency around images. I really hope so. And I think that was at the core of what the campaign was about, just the way that our legislation and government system works. It wasn't quite the right timing for it to go back into the sort of parliamentary bill process, don't quote me on that. That's not what it's called. But, you know, but that is certainly our hope. And, you know, we had over 26,000 signatures on the petition that we started for people just having so much support for this. France and I think really Norway have passed similar transparency bills, certainly related to certain sectors, influences being one. I think Norway's is a bit more extensive. So I really, really hope that it does become regulatory because I believe that we need it. And but like I said, it's the foundations of a bigger conversation and bigger changes that I think are needed as a society. to you really, but without that regulation, kind of forcing some people's hands, shall we say, the change will be incredibly slow. I mean, if we were to come out with rules around, you have to the hashtag or watermark or kind of, you know, explicitly explain this piece has been re-touched, this has a filter on it and blah, blah, blah. I mean, the output that a lot of luxury brands, especially the kind of clients that we work with, there's a certain standard of expectation from consumers and also a certain standard that they set for themselves of their output. Do you think that that kind of that raw and authentic look and feel and messaging can translate to luxury when the industry itself has such connotations of being that desirable and somewhat unattainable thing that people want and need? Yeah, that's so interesting. You know, you sort of had shared that with me. I was like, gosh, it's almost for me. It's almost a philosophical question. You know, it's that way. I know, I know. I know. It's that way because we've made it so. You know, we've all said that this is how it has to be and, you know, so if we can unmake it so. Look at the boat. Look at what Eddonville did. I know. He has driven change and it completely re-established what beauty and fashion is. It is only so because we say it so. Absolutely. So I really do think that, you know, now is the time to be like ripping up that rule book and, you know, yeah, just starting again almost. And of course, you know, luxury and premium, but it's about, it's about so much more than just an image, right? It's about the packaging. It's about the scent. It's about the experience. All of those things are still valid. Yeah. And all of those things can still live side by side with an image, a beautiful image of a person that is just slightly more in touch with reality. You know, I believe so anyway. I think so. Like when I look around the room, I like, you know, there's, I always think almost that women in real life are more beautiful because it imperfection is beauty, to be honest. Yeah. And we're in a room with two very beautiful. Oh, it's sharp. Look, hurry on. No, but I think, yeah, we've, we've gotten used to seeing people in print especially or, you know, moving image on TV, look a certain way. But when I see someone in real life, I don't think they're less beautiful because they don't look at that. It's almost as though we just need to reframe the expectation in those mediums to match what we would class as stunning or beautiful in reality. Yeah, totally. That's such a great point. Thank you. I shouldn't be so shocked. So with the introduction of mandated transparency for influencers, kind of declaring paid promotion collabs and brands with products, do you think there will be an end to influencer marketing with kind of this move towards more authentic content and the mandated transparency, this kind of like across the board that kind of step away from that curated image? Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting. I mean, I will say that influences and influencer marketing is definitely not my area. You need to speak to one of my colleagues in the influencer marketing team for a full sort of in-depth analysis of that. But definitely what we are seeing is that people are, I think, influencers still have a huge influences, still have a huge role to play and they will do as the sort of transparency piece becomes more and more required because also that's naturally what people are looking for. Actually, what was I reading? A really article on BOF, I think the other week and it was about, you know, I think influencers that actually are influencing, isn't there day job? Influences with a job. Yes. I saw it at the door. It was great. Exactly. And it's like, you know, how do they juggle it? I mean, hats off. But, you know, people want to see that real life elements. They want to understand that, you know, you're not just a content creator, which is an amazing thing to be. I tried to film something for our content team just this morning and I was like, oh my God, I cannot do this. This is so hard. We're filming a cooking right now. And there's, yeah, we're not made for this. No. No, great time, MJ. And I have to film stuff for our social channels. I have a greater, a greater respect for content creator. Oh my gosh. For content creator. I really do. So, you know, hats off, it is a tough job and I wouldn't want it and I couldn't do it. But there is certainly a move for that added layer of influencers, sort of facets of an influencer's life, shall we say, you know, that I think will become more and more crucial to really driving those revenue numbers. But no, I don't think that it's dying. I mean, I still, I know I look at sent influencers that I follow and I'm like immediately sort of, you know, looking at, you know, where can I get that cool, though training? Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Terrible. But, you know, having those, having people who do stand for something more than just pushing a product is, I think, so, so crucial. And then I think somewhere in Australia, I think was it in the same article that they were saying that so many influencers, they aren't sort of abiding by the transparency rules because they don't want to be shown to be being paid for. Yeah, and also, God, God, that's so interesting, but it's not worth it. It's not worth it. Yeah, exactly. So, if you really believe in the thing that you're trying to sell, then you shouldn't really feel bad about saying, you know, it's an ad or paid, but anyway. I guess then, like, to wrap up, I'll be interested to know how you feel in general about how this campaign has landed both with the consumers and with the brands that you're working with. And, you have the kind of unique position of working with a lot of these brands. How, yeah, how's the, how have the audience responded and also have the brands responded? Yeah, I mean, I was quite nervous before we went in line with our campaign. And if you look at, I have this running spreadsheet of like risk and mitigations. And I was like, all the things that people could potentially say. And so, I was, I was quite nervous about it. And I'm very, very glad to say that none of the sort of risks that I'd written down in my worst nightmares, you know, had transpired. And it was all so well and warmly beautifully received by our customers, by, you know, other people I think who weren't even cop-youted customers hadn't come across us. So that has been fantastic, almost 100% positive sentiment from our community, which is. I know, I know. We were all so thrilled in some of the comments. And our social posts on the petition itself were just so, so moving and it really shows like the depth of feeling behind this issue. So we knew that we were in the right space. Brands also, we were sort of a bit concerned about some brands, you know, how will this go down? Will they sort of, you know, be pushing back on us about it? Also been so well received from our brands. And we've got five brands who've signed the pledge with us, which is GlowSCP-N. They're loom, the new co-mega-babe and the seated queen. So yeah, so that's five so far and hopefully we'll have more coming and joining us as well. And we have other brands who are sort of working towards, you know, our guidelines for having unretouched images. And a lot of them are so close, actually, they're so, so close. We just, you know, a few more sort of bits to get over the line. So all round, really positive. That's amazing. Really, really positive. Yeah. Okay. So. That's the $1 million question. I know. This is the sort of headspace that I'm occupying at the moment, you know. How do you trump that? Honestly, it's going to be tough. I've got a few things that up my sleeve and hopefully planning for next year. One is aligned with Cop Conscious and the other is to do with reproductive health and the partnership with that. It sounds like we have a thing. It's cross-oost. Yeah. And are people able to still sign the petition? That's a very important question. Where can they do so? Yes, it's on Change.org. I don't know the petition link. I don't know. By the hour we can put it on. Yes. And we're about to send out an update to all the wonderful people who've already kindly signed and, you know, that is going to be used by Dr. League Evans and his team when the sort of bills sort of get revived and, you know, just showing the strength of support from the public about the bills. So it's not all amounted to nothing and it will be very, very powerful in the months to come. Amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you. It's been a pleasure having you. Thank you so much. So twice in two weeks of very lucky. Oh my gosh, thank you. We would love to have you back. Yeah, for next year to hear more about this. What's in the works? Yes. Well, fingers crossed and we get over the line. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks guys.