Crisis at Cornell. Husband on trial for missing wife's murder. Plus, "The Widower" documentary.

What was it charged with this time? You're listening to the Dateline story meeting. Murder. Stoked up count. The team is catching up on breaking crime news. He said the whole case was based on speculation. The story changes after his confession gets tossed out. He's got multiple women in his life. Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly. I'm NBC News, Senior Legal Correspondent Laura Jarrett in for Andrea Canning. It's October 8th and here's what's on our docket. In Northern Virginia, a man is on trial for the murder of his wife, a beloved nurse, even though her body has never been found. They start finding video of Nuresh traveling around town and throwing out dark plastic bags and emotions run high at the sentencing of former American idol contestant and now convicted murderer Caleb Flynn. "I stand here before God, who is my ultimate judge. I am not one, I'm not a my wife." Plus, the cat and mouse game between a Dateline producer and a man accused of murdering his sixth wife is at the center of the widower till death do us part. Netflix's latest true crime documentary. Producer Dan Slepian will be here to tell us all about it. "This is a guy who has a certain kind of charisma and charm that hides a real menacing nature." But before that, we're heading to upstate New York where disturbing revelations about an alleged sexual assault two years ago have thrown an Ivy League campus into crisis. A warning to listeners, the segment contains discussion of sexual violence, please take care while listening. Last month, the idyllic campus of Cornell University with its rolling hills and stone buildings was thrust into the national spotlight by news of a civil lawsuit filed by a former student. Jane Doe filed a lawsuit accusing members of the high-five fraternity of drugging and sexually assaulting her. The lawsuit spans 100 pages, and in it, this former student, she's going by Jane Doe to protect her identity, lays out in vivid detail what she says seven students did to her at a frat house in October 2024. She accuses the university of failing to properly investigate. Over the past few days, as more details emerged about this incident and its aftermath, protests have swelled as current students speak out on campus. Here to bring us the latest is NBC News correspondent Maggie Vespa, who's been reporting on the ground in Ithaca, New York since the very beginning. Maggie, thank you so much for being here. Of course, of course, thank you guys for having me. So just describe the scene because it feels like it has gotten increasingly tense. It's been incredibly tense. We had a march on Monday. I was close to 2,000 people, easily 1,000 people. Students had an organized list of demands. They want all of the seven accused fraternity members either expelled or if they've already graduated, which some have, they want their degrees provoked by Cornell. Some are asking for administrators to resign. I mean, this isn't the first time they've disappointed us. But if we can't trust them to support and protect us now, why would we trust and protect us in the future? We now have, for the first time, faculty speaking out, introducing a resolution of no confidence in administrators here. They're not specifically calling on anyone to step down. In fact, the sponsor, a professor of tea, has told us we specifically didn't name anyone on purpose. But we don't believe that the school is capable of protecting students here. We've heard from too many students with too many experiences, similar to Jane Doe. They feel like the lawsuits, like the tip of the iceberg. I want to go back in time and lay out some of the basics of what we do know because a lot has come out in just the past couple of weeks. Jane Doe's civil lawsuit lays out her version of events. What exactly does she say happened that night? Yeah, so it was October 2024. She was a member of a sorority and she and her sorority sisters basically went out drinking. And as her suit puts it, she stumbled alone to the Chi-Five-Frat House to see a friend who seems like pretty quickly suggests per the suit that they have a threesome with another guy. Once that's happening, there are drugs brought into the picture. She says she was pressured to do ketamine, which on top of being drunk from partying earlier in the night. She says really eroded her ability to consent and her physical capacity to be aware of what was happening with her body. Yeah, for people who don't know, I mean ketamine is a strong, strong, strong drug. This is not like a little bit of weed from college students. Exactly. And while this is all sort of transpiring, they're also sending messages within the, let's call it the frat group chat, basically beckoning other guys to come to the room. Oh, yeah. One guy asks, "Shop still open?" Guys are told to whip it out with a picture of her. And there are more than 50 members of the frat in that group chat. Her attorney is called that screenshot of that group chat, "smoking gun." That it speaks to they were aware that they were bringing more men into the room than this girl had consented to. And they were kind of coordinating behind the scenes without her consent or awareness at the time. Now the guys tell a very different story and this is according to disciplinary documents from the university. Title IX documents that lay out the investigation Cornell conducted at the time that the men said that they were checking in several times and she seemed thoroughly okay. She eventually gets out of the room. She reports the incident to police a few weeks later. And you've mentioned something known colloquially sort of as Title IX, but that's for people who don't know. It's a federal law that actually requires schools to conduct an internal investigation. Essentially to protect student civil rights, right? You have a right to be free from sexual assault on college campuses. What do we know based on your reporting about what the school found in their Title IX investigation? We know it was expansive. The investigation, more than 50 interviews per the documents we reviewed with more than 30 witnesses and those witnesses are everyone from the roommate who saw her as soon as she walked in coming back from that saying that she looked stunned. There were multiple members of the fraternity obviously including the accused, but other members of the fraternity as well. And other students who came forward both to the university and to campus police. So there's one conversation Jane Doe has and it's this interview with campus police and a Title IX investigator and there's been a lot made of that particular sit down. CBS News reported that according to the transcript of that interview, Jane Doe says I can say with 100% confidence I was raped. Maggie, what do we know about the context in which that was said? We know it was weeks later. We know that immediately after that night, sheep per these Title IX documents had texted with some of the accused saying that everything that happened was legal, that people need to be a more open-minded, the attorneys for the members who were accused are pointing to those quite a bit saying see, this is proof it was consensual. Her attorney says no, it's not. It's a very standard grieving process and emotional process that victims of sexual assault go through. They deny it at first. They try to make it okay at first because maybe admitting that you're a victim of sexual assault changes your life. It's incredibly dark. In the weeks that follow, she continues to process it, continues to talk to friends, also sees some online rumors about it. And a lot of women saying this sounds like it could be assault. By the time almost three weeks later, she talks to police, makes the report, you're right. She drops that quote, which made massive headlines. I can say with 100% confidence, I was raped. What do we know about the punishments that were handed out to these men after the Title IX investigation? In the end, the University and their Title IX investigation determined there was a variety of things that the men did in that room, which ranged from sexual assault down to drug use or viewing her in a state of undress without her permission. So what we know is that two of the seven accused Chi-Fi members were expelled from Cornell. Two were temporarily suspended. And then one who had already graduated by the time these decisions were made, he was barred from campus for three years. The remaining two were told to have no contact with Jane Doe. They were told to study sexual harassment and then write what the Title IX panel referred to as "reflection papers" about the alleged incident. At least one of the men is still on Cornell's campus. He is. And there's now an infamous video of a woman confronting him on campus. He in the video basically tells her, "I don't know you. I wasn't involved in the Snapchat conversation. I'm not going to talk to you about this." Because attorney said, effectively, this is the danger of sort of a trial by social media in the modern era. He's never been found guilty of a crime and now he's getting accosted on campus. But he, to your point, is here continuing his education. Jane Doe's attorney, in the meantime, points out she has had to withdraw from Cornell. He said she couldn't take it anymore. He was deep in throws of depression and panic attacks here in the world. the wake of this. So she needs her education as a hold. I think it is that contrast that perceived disparity in what the outcomes have been for somebody who says they were assaulted versus somebody who allegedly participated in the assault is what fires up a lot of anger in these cases. NBC has also uncovered a fair amount of text messages between the fraternity brothers. Once they learn that this is sort of turned into a real investigation, what are the text messages show? So it shows that in the aftermath, the frat is temporarily suspended. You see text messages where one of them says the F word, and then ask if he should call Jane Dow. From there, the president of the fraternity responds via text and says no not yet, meaning don't call her. Another guy responds, says Jesus Christ. There's another woman who said that she was told by somebody in Kaifai that they were going to have a meeting to get everybody on the same page, everybody in the fraternity as far as what they were going to tell police. So this is just the type of thing that an outside law firm is now going to have to look into. So Cornell has commissioned this firm to conduct an independent investigation. They want to be able to say, look, we've turned to the outside. We know that we can do better. And so the university president released this video message over the weekend. We must do everything we can to prevent what happened to Jane Dow and everyone before her and anyone after her from ever happening again. So we've been talking about the college piece of this case, which is obviously huge, but let's talk for a second about what's going on on the criminal side of this. You have the district attorney, the lead prosecutor, Matthew Venhouton, who decided back in 2024 that there was not enough evidence to bring criminal charges against any of these seven men that we've been talking about. And he said that he based that decision on Jane Dow's sworn statement, which was given to him by campus police. But why didn't he ever talk to Jane Dow? The DA says he didn't get all the evidence from campus police, including Jane does initial interview where she says, I can say with 100% confidence, I was right. He says, I got a six page condensed statement like it was really whittled down. She said it was consensual. The governor has stepped in and said, why didn't you ask to talk to her yourself? Why didn't you ask for more evidence? Based on what I know about how this investigation went down, she doesn't trust the DA anymore. So now we have the attorney general, Latisha James, taking over and she's set a couple of key things. This is going to take a lot of time. I know that everyone wants answers so to I, but we have seven potential defendants. We have a number of stories, dozens of witnesses, a lot of evidence to look through, including the title nine evidence we've been discussing. Jane does attorney has championed the fact that the attorney general has been brought in. But he basically said we would have loved this amount of enthusiasm two years ago, because guess what? A lot of the evidence is probably gone. The passage of time obviously makes things more challenging for prosecutors and investigators. But one thing that has not changed here and has gotten a fair amount of criticism is the law. New York's law, like more than a dozen other states actually makes it really tough to bring a successful case of rape when you have consumed alcohol in at least in the eyes of the law voluntarily. Yeah, so New York state's law says that if you voluntarily drank, use drugs, basically you got voluntarily drunk or high, you can't blame in effect being too drunk or high to consent on the person you're having sex with and then claim that you were assaulted because you inebriated incapacitated yourself in the first place. Pretty much everyone involved has acknowledged that this law is incredibly limiting if not a problem. Like the governor in conjunction with assigning the attorney general said, and I also, next breath, I'm also going to throw my weight behind changing this law. As of the time that you and I are talking here, Maggie, NBC News has reached out to all seven of the accused for comment, either through their attorneys or through direct outreach to these men. What is the status of that? So that we aren't just treating them as what a one group short, so three effectively have responded in some form and denied the allegations against them publicly. Scott Cretchmar via his attorney has denied the allegations and said that he welcomes the new criminal investigation. They called the lawsuit intentionally dishonest an attorney for Giulio Lopes, the one who was seen that video being confronted on campus. He told me that his client acknowledges that he had a sexual experience with Jane Doe but says that it was consensual and he full on denies any allegations of sexual assault. And then there's a third man whose attorney gave a statement to ABC News denying that he engaged in any sexual activity or drug use. Maggie, it's a tough case. It's an important case. We're so grateful for you being here and walking us through all of your amazing reporting. Thank you. Thank you for having me. If you or someone you know has experienced sexual assault, call the National Sexual Assault Hotline at 1-800-656-4673 or visit rain.org. That's r-a-i-n-n.org for more resources. Coming up, prosecutors argue a Northern Virginia man killed his wife. His attorneys say that without a body, there's no proof. In the summer of 2024, police in Manassas Park, Virginia, showed up at the door of a young mother named Mom-to-Coffee-Bot. Police officers asked her husband and a rash where she might be. Their conversation was captured on police body camp. We're looking for Ms. Mom-to-Coffee. At that point, Mom-to-Head only been missing for just a few days, but her friends and her family were convinced something sinister was going on here. And they organized rallies outside the police station calling on investigators to take a closer look. We have been working literally around the clock since August 5th to put pressure on the police and get tips generated. Three weeks later, Nuresh was arrested for concealing Mom-to's dead body. He went on to be charged with her murder. Nuresh has pleaded not guilty. His defense team says there's no proof she's even dead. Mom-to's body has never been found. Now, after a series of delays in legal battles, Nuresh Bot's trial is finally getting underway. Dateline producer Mariano Donnell has been following this case very closely. Mariano, hi. Hi, Laura. How are you? Great. So before we get into the nitty-gritty, give us a sense of just who Mom-to-Wars, right? Even from her photos on social media, she looks like this vivacious young woman, 28-year-old woman. She's originally from Nepal, but she is a pediatric nurse and she's really admired by her college. She is married to a man named Nuresh. She's an IT consultant. They've been married about three to four years, but they're about to celebrate the first birthday of their young daughter. And that's when really all this begins. So what prompted authorities to do that welfare check when police show up? Yeah, it's really her friends, her colleagues from work are like, wait a minute. She suddenly, she doesn't show up. That is not Mom-to-First of all. She's going to be reliable, dependable. She's going to be here, but also she's so excited about the daughter's birthday. I mean, the daughter's all she talks about. They're like, where is she? Something is wrong. And they immediately go to the police. So police go to the home and they talk to Nuresh and they said they were separating. So what he says is that they had been having trouble, that she just took off, destroyed her phone. But other than that, he doesn't seem to be overly concerned. And he's saying this to the officers as he's holding his soon to be one year old daughter. Just that, you know, she took off and don't know where she is. Did the police officers seem concerned? They said, listen, if you could try to get in touch with her, let us know. But other than that, they just pretty much left. Now, Nuresh did report Mom-to-Missing a few days later. And this is a pivotal moment, because police could have just taken his word for it. She's an adult. She's not vulnerable. There's nothing to suggest something sinister or foul play. But then the officers start digging. Why? Well, really, because the friends, her friends are saying, listen, we know she was unhappy in this marriage. She claimed he was abusive to her, at least verbally, if not physically. But here's another thing. So he files the missing person's report, okay? And then he goes a few days after that goes on social media. And he says, you know, thanks to everyone for, you know, trying to help find Mom-to. And then the message ends with, I appreciate your unconditional support and hope to get help down the road in future days. Take of that. What? Yeah. If your wife has gone missing and you have a baby at home in future days, there are no future days right now. So red flags right there. Where is the sense of urgency in finding your wife and not really tipped off police as well? So as you mentioned, her friends are putting a ton of pressure on investigators, right? They're holding rallies, they're handing out flyers. And we should say that the police said they were keeping things close to the vest on purpose, not to tip their hand, which is not unusual. Of course. We've started to really see the prosecution's case take shape in these various pre-trial hearings. What do they say investigators uncovered about Nuresh's movements around the time of Momta's disappearance? They have found a couple of key things. One is that water usage in the home, spiked for one hour, I mean, an incredible spiked for one hour on July 31st around the time prosecutors believe she was either killed or just after she was killed. But here's something else. Police also find that he has been seen buying knives and cleaning supplies. So and we're talking like a day before that spike in water usage. So what's going on there? They also have video that they start finding of Nuresh traveling around town and throwing out dark plastic bags in dumpsters and trash compactors in just random places in town, random places in town. And in fact, in one, it was a donation bin of clothing. They're able to retrieve what looks like a bath mat. And it has tested presumptive for blood, not clear who's blood. That is. Now I mentioned about the water usage, dogs, a stiffer dog came in the house. They could see there was a presence of blood. So what's starting to take shape is this man to police has killed his wife. He has now dismembered her in their home. He has put her remains in several bags. He has gone around town to dispose of the bags. What does the defense say? How do they explain why he's moving bags around in various random locations? They really have it. I mean, what they're saying thus far is, excuse me, there is no body here. You don't have a body. You can't say this woman is dead. Therefore, our client should not be facing trial for her murder. What are prosecutors say the possible motive would have been here? They're not saying that yet, but one thing that has been reported was that in the months leading up to her disappearance, Neuresh's electronic devices show searches related to starting life anew without her. Their general searches, but prosecutors are going to be saying, listen, this wasn't just a sudden argument that this couple had in the heat of a moment. They may be trying to argue that no, no, this is premeditated. So Neuresh has been behind bars for a long time now. The trial was supposed to happen last year. What happened? He's been saying that he needs more time for his defense. In fact, I think he just recently was saying, no, I'm not ready for trial. Sure. He's trying a couple different delay tactics. He was trying to get the judge kicked off the case. He said, basically, he thought she was biased against him and he wanted her to recuse herself. And she was basically said, yeah, I'm not going to do that. Not going to happen. The jury selection is a big undertaking. That selection process began this week. Marianne, how's it going so far? It is a high profile case of finding jurors, people who are not familiar with case, don't have a bias toward it. It's kind of a herculean task. And the judge is concerned, very concerned, because she, though she's not sequestering the jury, she has had strict rules in place about their cell phones. You have to turn off their notifications, they can't be having sudden headlines pop up. You see the judge is struggling with how to do this in the modern age when everybody talks is so much more difficult. Well, they're bombarded with images and stories and headlines and push notifications. And so it's interesting to see a judge be that proactive. It also sounds like Neuresh has been proactive coming up to sidebars with his attorneys. Oh, yes. He is very involved in his defense. Well, it's great to have you on it. Marianne, we're going to keep following this one. It's fascinating. Thank you for your coverage. Thanks so much, Laura. A few hours after we taped this conversation, a jury was seated and heard opening statements. We'll have more on that for you next week. Up next, former American idol contestant and convicted murderer Caleb Flynn speaks at his sentencing. Plus an inside look at the new Netflix documentary, The Whittower, Till Death Do Us Part. Welcome back everyone. This week, instead of doing our usual date line roundup, we wanted to bring you up to speed on the final chapter in a case we've been following from the beginning. The murder trial of former American idol contestant Caleb Flynn. Last week, a jury convicted Caleb of murdering his wife Ashley and staging the scene to look like a break in. They found him guilty in less than three hours. On Monday, Caleb was back in court for his sentencing, and we actually heard him speak for the first time. Then it was his daughter's turn to give their statements. Joining me now to tell us what they said is date line producer Marissa Meyer. Hey, Marissa, let's start here with Caleb. Hi, Laura. Thank you so much for having me. So he was incredibly emotional from the start, and he addressed pretty much everyone in his life, starting with his two young daughters. I have so many thoughts and dreams of raising you, and seeing you grow up to be like a women of God. Unfortunately, I can't. It's quite a historic. Caleb also addressed his parents, and he apologized for the life that he's going to miss that on, by going to prison. I'm sorry. I won't be able to have only coffee and emotions, but I'm sorry, I can't gather anything with the girls. Not yet. I'm sorry, I can't carry you both. Yeah. I'm sorry, I won't miss so much, but now I love you with all my heart, and I think you are the greatest parents in this world. At the same time, Ashley's family is there, too. Did he have anything to say to them? Well, Ashley's family, they had sat through days of testimony when Caleb's lover, Aliyah Botner, had read text after text message that Caleb had sent her in what she said he hated his wife, Ashley. He called her names and expressed a desire to kill her. So that must have been so hard, wrenching for them. And in his statement in court, Caleb, he apologized to them for his behavior and the things that he'd said about Ashley. That's horrible. It's those things where they want you to know whether you believe it or not. But I did not, or do not mean them, they do not teach you, I love you all. Now Marissa on the killing of Ashley itself, what did Caleb say? So when it came to the murder itself, Caleb immediately maintains his innocence. He was practically shake it as he said this. He been glanced at the prosecution table and said that he did not kill his wife. Let's take a listen to that. What if I stand here before God, who is my ultimate judge, I am not one, what I said, I did not kill my wife, I will continue to fight for my innocence where I could still live. That was me too. That is what I did not kill my wife. Ashley's family also gave victim impact statements. What did they say? I know they focused a lot on the kids. Yeah, their biggest focus was on Caleb and Ashley's daughter, Zalissa Neva. And Ashley's sister, Caleb and her brother-in-law, Matthew, are now raising the girls. Matthew said Ashley and Caleb's daughters visit their mother's grave nearly every day. And sometimes they even lay on the grass next to her headstone just to feel closer to their mother. And the kids were not there in court, Alyssa and Eva, but they actually wrote letters addressing Caleb, which were read out loud by their grandmother, Ashley's mom and brother in law, that must have been just gutting. It really was. And I think something to remember too, Alyssa and Eva are 12 and 10 years old right now. So they're also at an age where they have a real sense of the loss of their mother too. And in her letter, Eva addressed Caleb as daddy. But she asked him how he could have done this to her mother. She was my best friend, I miss her so much, so, so, so much, you have no idea. I cry and cry every day in my heart breaks to see the people I love hurt. I've seen images, pictures and videos of you everywhere on YouTube. My heart aches to see you hurt. But then I think it was your choice. It was your choice to have an affair and it was your choice to kill the only mother I've ever had. Unfortunately, that was a choice that cannot be erased, even though I really wish it could. Caleb's other daughter, Alyssa, didn't address him as dad, she called him Caleb. And she asked how he could throw away his life or quote, a girl half his age. And she also had some pretty, I would say pretty starkly honest words for him too. You truly don't understand how much you hurt my life. And I wish you could feel the pain I have been through. Something so tragic and to know that with my father was just shocking. You made me feel like an idiot thinking that I could trust you. But God has been working through me and I have changed. And through all of what you put me through, God is going to work something out for good. And by the way, I don't plan on coming to see you, Alyssa Flynn. Marissa, what sentence did the judge end up imposing? So the judge sentenced Caleb Flynn to life without the possibility of parole for aggravated murder. And the judge also ordered Caleb to pay $20,000 in restitution for Ashley's funeral expenses. It's such a heartbreaking case. We're going to keep an eye out for any appeals. Marissa, thank you so much for catching us up. Thank you so much, Laura. For our final story this week, we are taking you behind the scenes of the Netflix true crime documentary, The Witter War, 'Till Death to Us Part', produced by Library Films and NBC News Studios, the documentary unpacks the story of Thomas Randolph, a Las Vegas man accused of orchestrating the 2008 murder of his wife, Sharon, and then gunning down the hit man he hired to kill her. But Sharon isn't the first of Randolph's wives to die in mysterious circumstances. Part of what makes this documentary so compelling is the dynamic between Randolph and Dan Slepian. Is the senior investigator producer at Dateline who spent 15 years investigating the case and interviewing Randolph more than 10 times? It's a journey he documented on video and audio tape and believe me, you cannot look away when Randolph and Dan are talking. The whole of America has stood trial facing the death penalty twice, 20 years apart. I would absolutely agree with you. And again, you must remember, I didn't kill anybody. And joining us now to tell us all about it is Dan. Dan, welcome to the show. Hi, Laura. Hi. Okay. So first off, I think congratulations are in order. I know you're not comfortable being the subject of all this success because you're the reporter, right? You're used to just being the investigative guy, but you have to take it in at a little bit, right? A little bit, but the reality is it certainly never my intent to become part of the story. My objective was to observe and document a homicide investigation as it unfolded. But Thomas Randolph is the one that changed that. Most people accused of murder would run from a guy like me. For Randolph, it seemed to be a lifeline of sorts. This is a guy who has a certain kind of charisma and charm that hides a real menacing nature. And so I think what he was trying to do was to suck me into his narrative, and I was aware of that the whole time. Well, it's interesting you would say that because I was one of the things I was going to ask you is whether there were times where you did feel like you were a mark. But before we get to that, we got to start at the beginning. The timeline starts on May 8, 2008. Thomas Randolph calls 911 to report the murder of his wife at their home in Las Vegas. Michael listen to some of that. So what was Randolph's initial version of what happened? His version has never changed since that night. What he told police and what he has always said is that he was taking his wife Sharon off for a mother's day dinner that night at a local casino. They came home. He let her out of the car first. She goes in. He follows in with the car and he says when he walks in to that door, he sees Sharon dead at the other end of the hallway with blood coming out of her head. He sees a masked intruder. He reaches into an office that he has off of off the hallway. He grabs a gun and says as the intruder is running past him, he shoots him five times and kills him. There were red flags, shall we say, for investigators early on. There were. Well, first of all, the intruder was actually his handyman. Police came to believe that Randolph hired his handyman to kill his wife and then ambushed him to make it look like a botched burglary because they were going to share the proceeds of life insurance payout. But there were some problems at the scene. The scene was not aligning to Randolph's version of events. He said that he started shooting in the hallway. All of the bullet casings are in the garage, none of them are in the hallway. There was a bullet in the intruder's head, yet the mask he had been wearing was taken off and there was no bullet hole or blood on the ski mask. Why would he have taken off his ski mask? And for me, the biggest question when I started evaluating his story is he doesn't run over to his wife. He's lying there on the ground bleeding and it takes him a long time before he runs over to his wife and makes sure she's okay. To me, that was the first red flag. So you have all this incredible access and you are actually sort of a fly on the wall. It was kind of a remarkable experience for me. I mean, I've been doing this for three decades. Never in my career have I documented a case from literally every perspective. So I was embedded with the detectives. I was with the prosecutors behind the scenes. I was with defense attorneys behind the scenes. I was with the defendant behind the scenes. I was with the victim's families behind the scenes. The first time you meet Randolph in person is when he got arrested. Describe that moment. It was very odd because I had been speaking with him on the phone for about six months. But it was five o'clock in the morning in Utah, a freezing cold morning. He was in his box for shorts after being tased and dragged with the snow. And I said to him, Hey, Tom, it's Dan. And he was like, Hey, Dan, you know, like there's just like odd familiarity because we've been talking about fun. But he never said to me, you know, what are you doing here? It's like the middle of Utah, but I was like, do you mind if I just ride in the car with you? And the way that he's like, yeah, sure. Come on. Did he know all along? Who else you were talking to? Like investigators? Thank you for asking that. And I think it's a very important point because both sides knew that I was talking to the other side, but I never told the detectives what Randolph told me. And I would never tell Randolph what the detectives were telling me. How do you balance not wanting to give somebody too much attention, but at the same time there's something that you have to get to the bottom of? Right. It is a very difficult thing to do because and my job is to remain neutral. What's a hard thing to do when I have been with the victim's daughter for 15 years and have seen and witnessed from the front lines exactly the kind of pain and torture she's had to go through as a result of her trauma because I met her one month after her mother's murder. She was seven months pregnant at the time I met her. By the time Thomas Randolph went to his second trial, her daughter was about to turn 16. And that was a big part of my motivation was that I never wanted the fascination with Randolph to eclipse the women whose lives were lost around him and the families he damaged, Colleen at the center of it. Job well done. It's an incredible story. Everyone should check it out. The widower till death do us part. It's out now on Netflix. Dan, thank you so much for coming up. Laura, such a pleasure to be with you. That's it for this episode of Date Line True Crime Weekly. Be sure to check out Lester's new podcast series before and after. His conversations with people whose lives were transformed in an instant. In his latest episode, he speaks with history professor Rebecca Schofield whose life was turned upside down after a TikTok influencer falsely accused her of mastermining one of the most high profile crimes in the past decade. The murders of four University of Idaho students in 2022, a crime Ryan Coburger later pleaded guilty to. It felt extremely terrifying to have someone that hyperfixated on me and producing that level of content about a character that bore my face and name but true was not me. You can find that now wherever you get your podcasts and to get early access to future episodes, add free, subscribe to Date Line Premium. Coming up this Friday on Date Line, you don't want to miss Josh's all new two-hour episode about the investigation into an Oklahoma woman's disappearance and the scene. and armchair detectives uncovered along the way. - There was no stopping, you had to keep going. It was one of those, but wait, there's more. - Watch Heartless, this Friday at 9 p.m. 8 p.m. Central on Dateline on NBC. Thanks so much for listening. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummings, Caroline Casey, and Keanu Reed. Our associate producers are Ellery Gladstone Groth and Arya Young. Our senior producer is Liz Brown-Kerlov. Veronica Maseca is our digital producer. Rick Kwan is our sound designer. Original music by Jesse McGinty. Paul Ryan is executive producer, and Liz Cole is our senior executive producer of Dateline. - Have a good day, everybody.