Creating the Language of Your Case

[MUSIC] Hey, I'm your host, Jason Ingber. I'm here with Keith Mitnik, who's going to be providing us with a bundle of wisdom. Keith, what are we talking about today? >> We're talking about a fun one. We're talking about one that anyone can use, lawyer or non-lawyer, and something really does help lawyers, which I call creating the language of your case. It's all about getting the maximum power out of words, phrases, sayings, to communicate and convince and persuade. While that's what we do for a living in as trial lawyers, we all do it our day to day life. So I'm really excited about this one. >> Very excited too, but that lets jump in. Creating your case using language to the max. So how do you like, how do you Michael Jordanize your language? Let's hear. >> All right, let's talk about that. But before I get into there, there are really three steps. I'm going to go through all three of them. But before I do, let me just, I want to put it in a context. There was something I heard in a movie about Churchill. I think it was called the darkest night or something like that, darkest day. And then I actually looked it up and the truth is it came from President Kennedy giving Winston Churchill an honorary American citizenship. And at the ceremony, and it was after War War II, and him standing up to Nazi Germany. And at the ceremony, he stole a line that actually was by Edward R. Murrow had used it first. And Kennedy used it in that ceremony about how Winston Churchill used the English language in such a powerful way. And I just love the quote because it kind of gives us a backbone. And everything we're going to be talking about here, which he said, he mobilized the English language and sent it into battle. And that's kind of the idea here that we're going to mobilize this and maybe it's in necessarily the battle for everybody. But we're going to go armed to the teeth to get our point across. >> Okay, so I just realized something. I need to write down things that I like that you're saying here so that at the end I can rattle them off and make everybody's face light up like a Christmas tree. So if you see me writing it's because I absolutely loved one of your faces. Okay, and that was what I heard that phrase. And I knocked the chair over to get a pen and write it down. Just that I went, oh my God, that's what I've been saying for years. And it's about Churchill, it's perfect. So let's get into the first step. Let me tell you what the three steps are, although we're only going to cover the first one in this episode. The first is picking powerful, perfect words. What do I mean by that? The just right words. There's a big difference between the right word and the just right word. There's a famous quote by Mark Twain, a lot of folks will have heard it. And again, I've known this one for years and it will go, it's one of my favorite sayings. Mark Twain said the difference between the almost right word. And the just right word is the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning. And that cool because what we want to do when we're in a position where we're trying to convince someone to see what we believe is the right way and get them on the right track. That's really what we want to do. We want to take our words and turn them into like bolts of lightning that are powerful and full of electricity. So I just love that quote. Well, you have the advantage of a distinct accent. So everything you say, that's like what I would make out to be average from my accent just gets level up with lightning right there. You got that Southern lightning. Well, I appreciate that. In any of that. So picking the just right word, here's a couple pieces of that. There will be a word that'll work, but it won't be the best word. So you got to search down the best word. Now, let me be clear. Not for every word comes out of your mouth. For God's sake, you'd be tongue tied. You could never say anything. You'd have to memorize your words like a Shakespeare play. I'm talking about there are certain essential anchoring words that provide the framework for what you're trying to communicate. It's those essential anchor words that are the critical ones you need to spend time to get them right. Because if you say something that's accurate, but it isn't the best choice, it's not as strong. You've lost an opportunity to advance your cause. If you say something you didn't think through and it backfires on you, now you got a problem. And it trust me. I've done it before in courtroom when I was younger and didn't think through it. That's how I learned. You better don't get over excited. Think through how I could backfire be used against you. So it's got to be unassailable words. And I've been talking about the power words, the importance of words, words matter. And this concept for over a decade, speaking to lawyers. But not that long ago, right before COVID, I came up with a formula that can be reproduced by anyone and get you to the right word quicker. Then just saying, all right, I got to figure out the right word. Well, hell, I've now searched my vocabulary. Then you go to the Sars, which is essential, by the way. An essential tool for the process of about to go through is get a the Sars. Now, I've got about 10 of them on my bookshelf, including the big Oxford English dictionary, 20 volumes. It covers the whole shelf. But you've got to get on the Google. Hey, let me tell you something that's cool is it can be this simple two of them. One, for whatever reason, this only works on an iPad. It's called word flex, like flex in your muscle, word flex. Now, I don't know why in the hell they aren't putting it for laptops and phones. And I think they're missing a market. Maybe for whatever reason, it only runs there. But in the less save upgraded it, you can only do it on an iPad. But you plug in the word. And hell, I don't want to run over and get my pattern. I turn around and show you that word then spirals out all these radii come off of them. And at the end, there's words. And but it's not just that. It goes, you know, words have different meanings. For each meaning, it takes a line out. There's a circle and a hub. And here come all these words around it in the next one. And so when you get a word with a lot of meanings, it just looks like, you know, the old pictures of a, I ain't using it in the time of COVID, but we've all seen the movies, the virus spiraling out. It's the coolest thing. And then you can tap on any word. It'll take you to new words. I don't need any any thesaurus other word flex. Now, I don't have my iPad with me all the time. So I get frustrated because I need to look, I'm sitting someplace, border and traffic stop. And I want to look up a word. I'm working a problem my head. And I go, damn it, I can't get to my iPad. Well, I just found it is not as good as word flex, but is damn close. It's the best online for your phone app I've ever had for a thesaurus. And it's just cool. Yes, yes, yes. We're going to download word flex. Not only that in the TV show version of you, there's like a scene of you being like all mastermind or beautiful mind with like the word nuclei spreading and all that. And then defense counsel watches this webinar and you see him in trial kicking ass. And you're like, how did that happen? And he winks at you like I saw your webinar on choosing your words or something like that. But let's go back to getting to unassailable words. How do we do that? You just solving a problem in your head with words. Like the way you're talking about it, that's what made me think of a beautiful mind. Solving problems. And you want the asaurus to solve your problem. Genius. It's one of the most fun things, not just lawyers. Anyone can do is if they will fall in love with the English language and the concept of using the right words to make a point, you can care it anywhere in your head. You don't have to be at work. You can be in the most boring conversation, be having a blast and just nodding like you're listening. It is, you can be on an elevator stuck. So I say I need, I got to get the right way to say this. And when I have one of my right, if I'm preparing some just TH and a little circle, I know it means the thores. You know what that does for me? I'm all day long in the back of my mind. It's like Christmas morning. You know, I'm like, hey, when I get done with this, I go chase that word down. So it really isn't work. It's fun and anyone can do it. So let's get into it. I call this formula for picking the just right words. I call the end result of it flashlight words. Because the idea to me is you want to illuminate and show the way. So let me, let's get past the kind of wind up to this. And let me get down to the some actual examples of how the process works. And I want to tell you where it came from. And I don't give you the formula, but I want to tell you where it came from. I'm sitting in front of a TV watching a show and even in my life. We're watching Netflix and a show came on called Broad Church in a series that was one of these mystery, English mysteries. And it was set in a town up on a hill. I mean, on a steep cliff to the ocean, one of those sheer cliffs of the ocean. And we're watching it. By the way, Broad Church, if you're looking for something to watch, it's very good. But anyhow, I said to my wife, no one, and we live in on the ocean in Florida, I said, no one would call that a beach. You know, sheer cliff, it looks cold, none in Habitle, rocks with water, explode, and over them. And there's a little sand down there, but not that much. I said, nobody would call that a beach. And my wife said, no, that's a coast. And I said, damn, I said, do you mind pausing it? I got it to start it right and notes down. And we ended up, I never came back to Finn. We finished, we started watching the next night. Because that was the trigger for me to say there's a way to get to the right word. And here's, and here's the simple, it's not art. Here's the simple path, the simple formula. There are words that I call inert, inert. Why are they inert? They're too ambiguous to know how people are gonna react to them. Then there are words that I call activator words. That means not with everyone, but with a high probability. You can predict if someone hears that, they're gonna tap into a type of memory that will have attached to it, emotional momentum. So when you say the word rather than just being my words, if someone's having to listen to, I now have gotten into their experiences, tapped into something that heads him in the direction that I want to from a historical emotional momentum. And that is so much more powerful than me talking 'til my turn blew in my face. I'm now bringing the person into the conversation and letting their own mind take it to where I wanna be. And now they say, that guy, what get guys saying makes sense. Because it's almost like they ran out and validated it from some past experience. That's an activator word. However, there's two kinds of, so you got inert words, that are two ambiguous. One person would get a memory and it would help me. Another would have an opposite memory that would screw me. So I don't want inert words for my anchor words. Activator words are what I want, but you gotta think through. There are negative activators and positive activators. Negative is when it, that's sure as hell not what I want them to take away from this. Positive activators, that's exactly what memories in emotional momentum I wanna tap into. And then the last little, and I'm gonna make examples, it sounds highfalutin it in. I'm gonna show you how it works in just a second. But in the last thing is think, okay, it is activator. It's a positive. Then that's where the source can come on before while you're hunting it or after while you're vetting it to make sure it's the best word. Then you wanna say, that's great. That's the concept. I got it. Is there a better way to say it? Sometimes you're dead on, but there's an actually better one. You had a good one you got to the best. So that's it. Figure out if it's inert or activator word. Then figure out if it's positive or negative. And then pause long enough when you're excited and you got the word to just make sure that's the one there isn't an even better one. So let me give you a couple of examples of it. This is one I've used so many times, I'm almost sick of hearing my own voice say it, but it's a perfect example. I always say do not say in a car crash case accident. Why? That is an activator word, but it's a negative activator. The defense says it all the time. Why? I don't know. I don't think going through this thought process, but they say it because it's a positive activator for them. Why? Accidents happen. It implies it's no one's fault and no one should be punished and nothing should be done about it. I can hear my dad right now, my brother and I chasing each other through the house and my dad, we knocked over a lamp. My dad coming at us to ball us out and my mom saying, Nick, it was just an accident. And that's where people take away from it. Well, I'm in here proving that this person did something wrong under civil laws. I don't want to be talking about accidents. Accidents are, I'm dancing with my dance partner accidentally step on their toe. Or a little kid is throwing a baseball as daddy's accidentally sends it a little high and breaks the window. That's an accident. We ain't even talking about the guy that's not paying attention, looking at his phone and rear end somebody. That ain't an accident. What is it? It's a crash. Now there is an polar opposite activator word. Now it's the activation that I want, the positive activator. Why? What do you do when you hear crash? You can hear symbols coming together from the old cartoons and stuff. [SNAPS] Crash makes you cringe. I want cringing. I do not want accidents happen. Why are we blaming this poor bastard? Didn't mean it. I want crash because crash makes you cringe. See the difference. Two activator words. One's negative for what I'm trying to get across. The other's positive. And I've gone and looked at them. I've put, trust me, I put crash in, damn it, everything's ours, I got it. It ain't getting better. They're good ones. Collision. But you know what? Collision sounds better than accident. You've lost the no one's fault piece. But a collision could be just bumping someone or a big collision. Crash is the word. So I would say any plaintiffs lawyers dropped the damn word accident use crash. But let's go through some more. I'd like to start with that because it makes the points so vividly. But how about following too close? You got a car crash. Your client was struck from behind because someone was following too close. People want to say they were following too close. Because that's the rule of the road that was violated in the statute that was violated. It is inert. Don't use it. Why? Because it's not a real inert. Well what is following too close? It depends on the circumstances. If someone is four inches behind you in stop and go five o'clock traffic that's crawling, are they doing anything wrong? Hell no. And a lot of your folks should be saying the word following too close. And I think, well that's bad. Or someone else may picture someone in a riding their bumper. So it could be good or it could be bad. I'm not going to use an anchor word, a focal word, that I can't control with the high level of confidence, the reaction the person is going to have. So I wouldn't use following too close. So what is the positive activator? Tailgating. Here's an even better one. Because I went to the SARS-- I got one of these Satharsis that had phrases. And I took tailgating and ended up with riding your bumper. Now you tell me you aren't already getting pissed off. When you say, that son of a bitch is just riding my bumper. Get off me. We all hit your pissed. There is nothing ambiguous about that. Following too close, who knows? Ride in your bumper, tailgating? No one calls in five o'clock traffic when they're close to you tailgating. They just say we're all stuck here trying to get the hell home. So here's another example. Rear-ended. Rear-ended is another word that is an art word. Because one person is going to go, man, they slammed into him from behind. They're responsible. Someone else low thinks rear-ended is probably just a tap in a grocery store and somebody's trying to exploit it, make a bunch of money with these ambulance chasers. Now you hopefully have gotten rid of people. Think that way in jury selection. But why pick a word that means different things is an art? Because it's an important word to use. So what's a better word? Rammed from behind. Rammed. Ram's a good word. Ram sounds like everyone's going to picture on wildlife programs. And damn, Ram's out there and they're like, what's jump-- [BEEP] --button, they come back and do it again. It sounds violent. Rammed from behind. It's like you snuck up on me. You always-- you never shoot someone in the back from behind is just a dirty, weight, dirty pool. And you've got no class. Come front, front, face up. Rammed from behind. Now you're activating. It's a positive activator and it doesn't get any better than that. So you can be cutting-- I'm loving these words. They're literally accepting emotion into the situation. I have so many questions in terms of other examples, but I don't want to put the brakes on you. I run through a couple more, but then give me some more. We'll do some live as best we can. Here's another one in car crash cases, or any kind of injury case. Sometimes the person has a fusion and they put that a little bit of metal in their neck. They call it fixation because they're affixing the disc above to the disc below to take that flexion out. So the area that's not working, the broken disc, you just take it out of the equation by fusing them together. And I hear people in court because it's technically medically called a fixation. They said, did you have a fixation device? Doctor, did you put a fixation device? And I sit in the court of my hair and I go, I hate that. Now I've got my formula and I know why. Fixation sounds like you're either stalking somebody and you're fixated on them. Or it fixed the problem. It's called fixation. Why do I want to say fix? My client's still in pain, not as bad, the burning down the leg went away, but it still hurts all the damn time. So I don't want to say fixation and imply it's fixed. To me, it is at best inert. And maybe other than to medical doctors who probably aren't on your jury, it's a negative activator potentially. So what do you use? Hardware, hardware, metal plates and screws. Who's not going to go, oh my god, they got metal plates and screws in their neck, hardware? I've communicated that something very unnatural and serious has happened in that surgery. Loud and clear, positive activator. And I don't know any better words than hardware or metal plates and screws. Here's another one. I had a lawyer that used to be with our office Talk to me about someone and a-- The expert called it gold standard. They should have done a surgery to make sure it's flesh eating bacteria and to make sure the flesh eating bacteria to get rid of it and to find out it is flesh eating bacteria. The way you find out is they do a little surgery and take it off and send it to the lab and think, oh my god, now they know they need to start cutting stuff out for it gets worse and in their specific antibiotics. Well the expert on the other side in this case for the defense said he agrees surgery was a gold standard. My partner got all excited and I said wrong word. That gold standard is way to inert. Why? It's two things people can go gold standard. God's sake they ought to do it. You know what else they may say? Well everyone would like to get the gold standard but you know they're not going to fly me to Switzerland for the latest cutting edge stuff. It sounds like you're asking for too much if you ask for the gold standard. Everyone talks about the gold standard. Most people aren't fortunate enough to live in the gold standard world so it always seems beyond reach. So I said you don't want that. That to me is an inert word and one of them is a real one side of it is real negative. So what was the better word? The best available test. And then I throw in within reason why? Because I don't want people saying well sure we'd upload to have the very best but you got to do what's you know what your fingertips best available within reason means we're not asking for too much instead of gold standard. And the last part of it was I said drop the word surgery. Why? It's a negative the test was a surgery. That's a negative activator word. Why? It sounds like a big dangerous thing nobody wants and we're soon for not doing it. So you're going well I can see why the doctor waited the last minute for you to surgery as something's the last resort. And we're saying you should have done it much earlier waited until too late and eight and a half their limbs off. I'm exaggerating. Eight a bunch. And it's like don't say well he should have done surgery earlier because everyone's going to go you can't blame a doctor for putting off surgery for as long as possible. That's their game. Biopsy that's what it is and people sitting at dermatologist office and they wax some little thing off right there they give you a little shot in the skin pull it off and send it to lap. It's a little nothing biopsy. It look a biopsy can be a big deal but it's surgery is a big deal. Biopsy sounds a hell of a lot less intrusive dangerous and not something you put off until it's too late. So you know it I'll give you let me just I'll tell you another one. Not a lot of visible property damage that is the right word don't say low impact low impact sounds like it wouldn't hurt a flea not a lot of visible property damage is accurate there's nothing negative attached to it and it can lead people with the thought you know what I put my car in the shop and never rain ran the same there may be more there than meets the eye and so you know I got I have so much fun of these I got myself stammering. Here's one here all the time I hear it in court and I hear it in life and I always say don't say that because it is too ambiguous people say in a medical record or on the stand they say after the surgery or better oh yeah I was better a lot better better implies cured it's ambiguous some people may go that just means it's improved but it also better maybe cured I'm all better all gone so don't say better say improved why take something could mean one thing I don't mean to say like it's all gone which is the defense's case and our case is it's not all gone although I have some improvement why use a word out of my mouth that can trigger well she must be better he's even saying it even though they don't think at that level it's subliminal if I say the surgery she was improved after the surgery but it's not gone improved every there's there is no question what I mean to communicate and I don't want to out my mouth communicate the wrong thing I'll give you I'm gonna give you one more and then we can we can talk a little bit about this but I'm I give you two more people talk about a permanent injury it's a really good permanent injury but you know what it sounds a little lawyerly to me and what the hell does exactly permanent mean you know I guess everybody knows permanent is forever but you know what's clear easy and really gets the point across it actually John Morgan came up with this one I've just taken it from him the others were fine and this was his and it's a great one he calls it instead of a permanent injury call it a forever injury you were trying to get the point across it's never going away they're gonna live with the rest of life forever everyone knows what forever means think of the difference between in my client suffered permanent injury never going well he sounds like you straight out of damn Harvard or in this injury was a forever injury she gonna have it for the rest of her life so those those are amazing really here I'm gonna give here's one more eight eight you've got a nice doctor came down and testified from Harvard for the defense and they paid him money but nobody's gonna believe he flew all the way down here to just lie through his teeth for 10 gram so rather than go after him has just making stuff up a big fat liar it's a it's a it's a it's not the path of least resistance it's very difficult so what's a better way to describe rather than he's lying he's making it up he got carried away by the competitive spirit they handpicked and hired him and they're actually paying for him and he meets with them they met last night they met this morning they're sitting in the room it's I'm not saying he's a bad guy and boy he's got great credentials but what he's saying doesn't make a lick of sense so you say well how if if it really doesn't make sense but why would someone with all his credentials say that well I understand that he got he didn't a big ol liar he's gotten carried away by the competitive spirit and he's trying to please the team he's on probably doesn't even realize it's just a path of least resistance it's a better way to say I think we have to have a serious internal discussion with John Morgan if we're going to release this episode that's that's the that's my comment immediately he has great that he's a I'm a word Smith he is too I'll tell you another one he gave me when you're talking about someone doing something intentionally he said and we were talking to his case against cigarette companies and I was talking to you as you know what I'd say it it was premeditated and I went God almighty that's good because you know premeditated has such a powerful it takes you to murder it takes you to murder yeah so instead of saying they did this knowing it was dangerous they did this intentionally say what they did was premeditated you your reaction is 100% more strong over there so there's nothing wrong with intentional it's not ambiguous it's a perfect example of okay it's a positive activator but I'm not done is there a better positive activator let's go to the SARS Morgan happened to be my the SARS that day is that something you employed while you were coming up as a lawyer looking to greater authorities as quote like a thessaurus bouncing up ideas on them oh yeah I think all of us in the law and out of the law we have all of us have people have touched our lives and who have really helped make us who we are and and the when I was younger I had one guy partner I had two guys training me were both great travelers but one of them was just to get everything done look under every stone never walking according to you look at every piece of file paper in that file period so he taught me that you better grind it stick your nose in it while or in it and know every fact in it so he was the hard work no shortcuts spend the time to know your case guy and thank God he taught me all that but the other guy was just brilliant brilliant humor Williams was the work you're behind off Roberts and John Robertson was just brilliant and you never guess he was no country boy shirt was half untied but he graduated number one from University of Florida you wouldn't guess it he was a hell razor he's died dead now but I mean hell razor beautiful love the back but let me tell you but but Robertson was a free thinker he thought of things most people didn't and he was so influential as a baby lawyer coming right I didn't pass the bar yet I'm working handle and I'm watching how his mind work and I was it was a beautiful mind and I wanted it and I'd I happen to be blessed with one that worked pretty good but I needed a mentor to point me how do you use that power how do you use that energy and he was the free thinker he didn't teach me any of this but I just watched him he wasn't a systems guy and teaching other people I just watched him do it I'd say them you know what maybe we'll say this in opening no no no there's a better way to say it we're going to say boom I go shit it is a better way so that's part and parcel that you know later I developed these things and it's so fun what about in mediasians the ability to walk away and say no but there's more nuance in that situation because you want to be able to explain it to you and you know what I mean is that you're not going to be able to explain it to you and you know what I mean is that you're not going to be able to explain to the other side, you're still really open, but you're number, like you don't wanna insult them, or maybe you do, but how do you say no? How do you walk away? What words do you use? - Yeah, you know who's, and what do you wanna create? - You know who's gotten so good at these mediation things, who's Matt Morgan. He went to some two week Harvard course up and literally at Harvard on mediation, and settlements and things, and he brought back some brilliant things, but it really comes back to something, you don't need to go Harvard and do all that. It's like I like to put it in systems. He came back with something concrete that he could really then make his own, but it goes to core value. If you treat people with respect, and you shoot straight, you have a much better chance of the outcome you want, than if you're just insulting and combative about everything, look, you push too far, and I will get very damn combative, but I don't like it. - Okay, you'll get carried away by the competitive spirit. - Yeah, but yeah, I will. I'm one of these days, I'm gonna pop somebody and then that doesn't be in trouble. But in any of them, so the question of mediation, how do you walk away, but leave the door open? You don't storm out. Now look, there's a time to storm out. Don't get me wrong. Sometimes they're just ridiculous insulting, and you say there's gonna be a reckoning. We're done talking, I'll let the jury decide. You're gonna forget the day, because they asked for it. But if you really wanna leave the door open, that doesn't help. So, how do you leave the door open? You just change your demeanor and your tone and the chosen words, and you don't wag your finger at 'em. You say, "Hey guys, ladies, I was hoping we'd make some progress. "We remain open to settlement. "We're just so far apart. "I think any more today's a waste of time." But we still got some more depositions to take, and we gotta pick our jury and see what everybody thinks of the jury, get moving it. Maybe we can revisit this during trial. We will continue to be open to the spirit of resolution, but we just see the value so much different right now. I think it's probably out of respect to you and me. Let's give the hell out of here. - Well, I love it. I'd wanna press you on more, but maybe we'll do another episode where you'll give a rundown of other things. I learned so much. It's amazing how sometimes you have a conversation, and it portal jumps you. As a young lawyer myself, you really helped me out. Unassailable words come from unambiguous language, and just being accurate. - Good, right. Really good way to say it. - It's you, it's you, and-- - You ever ever said it that way? See, I'm all the words you just said it. I'm gonna write that down. I'm gonna steal that view. That's a great way to encapsulate everything I've been talking about. - It's been brilliant. You were able to even give different temperatures of words in terms of accident, collision, and crash. You really have your finger on the pulse. Any closing thoughts as we wrap up this particular? - Yeah, I'm gonna give you, this is kind of fun, and sometimes people laugh at me, and I don't care if you're gonna laugh at me. - Now, okay. - I love poetry. I love poetry. I've got an extensive poetry collection. I write poetry. I'm not bad at it, 'cause I've spent a lot of time of words, and poetry is nothing but evoking powerful emotions and putting someone feeling like they're there through the user words. In the old masters, there's some of the newer ones I like, she died recently, Mary Oliver. She is so good. If you wanna go try some modern day poetry, listen to Mary Oliver. I just feel like Mary Oliver. - What, what's your name? - A lot of homework with you. You give it to a lot of homework over there. - But here's my favorite of all time, who's an old timer, is long gone. It's Pablo Neruda, and of course, I don't read Spanish, so I gotta get it translated. I think I should, I would love to read it, it's original form up. Actually, bought some books, or one of those tapes to learn Spanish, so I could read Pablo Neruda. But there is a poem, and one of our segments coming up, I'll find the name of the poem and get it. I may even read it, because he's talking about these horses in a rink, and if you don't feel blown away by the vividness of how you feel like you're in this arena, looking at these liposan horses, the description. He doesn't say there's a horse with muscles, and he's real pretty. When he's done describing it, you are there. So my last parting thing is anyone that kind of thinks poetry is not for me, give it a chance, because we are word-smiths. We are word-smiths, and the more we master, the art of being a word-smith, and I don't mean, you know, spin, I mean, getting to the root of the truth. The better we get at it, the better we're gonna be, in life and in courtrooms, and some of the great poets, not some of the new ones that talk about porcelain on a urinal, that to me is not poetry, but the masters, you read it, and it'll take your breath away, and then after enjoying it, study the words they pick, and see how in such a short space, and it's a good way to hone your craft, to listen to people that are, you know, now legends over their ability to use the English language or any language. And from my window, the Vankant Arena, I saw while the winter was biting me with its teeth, I just put you in. - You know it! - I know, no, no, I just looked it up, I just looked it up, I just looked it up. - I'm not a mighty, and I thought, if you know it, and can recite it. - No, that poem is beautiful, I just flick through it on another tab I had to, it motivated you to learn Spanish, Pablo Nerodo, that's beautiful. So good, and you know, there are others. He does one talk about cord wood on the front porch of some cabin, and I swear you can smell the damn cord room, cord wood and taste it and see it like you were there. And so you go, who gives a damn about wood on a front porch? I'm wasting my time. It isn't the wood on the front porch that matters. Just slow down long enough to see how can another human be and through words alone and zero pictures? Have me go, I can smell it. That's worth learning from. - Amazing, amazing. Thank you so much for your time, Keith. This was really, really beautiful. I can't wait to learn some more from you. - All right, thanks. - See you next time. (upbeat music)