Creating a Championship Team, and Best NBA Duos of All Time

So Rich, something that's been bothering you see this reaction to Shalameh? No, I didn't. So Timothy Shalameh, who's like nominated for an Oscar, is he makes some innocuous comment, right? The comment's something to the effect of. You see the way the movie industry is going. It's not as important in popular culture anymore, no one has the attention span. People won't go to the movie theaters anymore since COVID, especially, but also you can get it directly or ask. So he made some point like basically to Matthew McConaughey was talking to basically he doesn't want to be in a situation like what happened to opera and ballet. He meaning opera and ballet used to be popular culture art forms that are now just relegated to kind of high cultural art forms on the margins because new mediums and stuff like new media and new art forms replace them in the popular consciousness. And so like you need endowments from the arts a lot of times to have opera ballet because they can't commercially support themselves a lot of the time, not all the time, but usually. He's clearly making this point by saying he doesn't want movies to be in that situation. And everyone like there's all this backlash from people who are either too stupid to understand his point and there are a lot of dumb people like you know, so maybe they really just don't like their comprehension is so low that they misinterpret what he's saying or else this is my chance to virtue signal about opera and ballet and bash this guy. That stuff bothers me. I hate that. Yeah, first of all Timothy is a friend of mine. So obviously I'm biased. I'm not going to talk bad about him. I didn't hear what happened, but I want to ask you, is going to the movies with your girl still the same, have the same value as it once had? I don't think so. I think it should. I think I think going to the movies with your girl could actually help the relationship tremendously and the fact that well, it's just like a thing you get dressed, you go out, you have conversation on the way there, you know, a little touch on the knee and her thigh, you know, a kiss, whatever. You know, you're not supposed to pop dinner in a movie. You're supposed to do movie and dinner because you go to the movies now you got something to talk about at dinner. That's this. I never knew that. I'm going to be the true player that you are, Max, I appreciate you giving me that game. The thing about it is I really, really think so, man. I enjoy going to the movies. You know what else? How movies ought to market themselves nowadays? Think about the cost of going to a sporting event or a concert, right? Astronomical. Yes, much cheaper. Cost you $1,000 for two. You and two kids. Or the theater. Even if you go to a, like a high level show, it's going to break the bank. You should really market themselves. Hey, you want a good night out? $100 or less. Much less, really. Yeah. So, especially if it's just a date, like what's the movie going to cost you? So, like, what if you go to what if you go to I pick the drinks could get a little high? Yeah. No, I don't like about that. I can't stay like the seat reclines. You just fed me. I'm always under slept. I'm out. I can't stay awake. You going to sleep? Let me tell you something. But Shalame said about opera ballet because you really have to be educated in those sleep in those art forms in order to really understand again, anything from it. If you put, if you substituted in the opera ballet, those lazy boy chairs that go back like in the I pick and you fed people, not a single person would be awake. No, if you fall asleep in a ballet, they should put a tutu on you. No, they should. You should not be able to fall asleep. No, seriously. That should be a punishment. If you fall asleep in a ballet, disrespectful. It really is. All right. Well, listen, you ready to do this? Yeah, let's do it. Game over with Max Kellerman, Rich Paul. Game over at Spotify.com. Max, do we have emails today? You know we do emails every day nowadays. Oh, yeah. That's right. When was last time we missed emails? Well, it's a Friday. You don't have no job. I actually have a job. Well, I actually do have other jobs in this, but you're right. It's all in media, so it's not like real jobs. This episode of Game Over is presented to you by Loom. If your organization runs on endless email threads and status meetings, teams feel stuck, unstuck them with Loom, the AI first video platform by Atlassian. Teams record their screen and share a link so others review on their own time. AI makes recording and editing one click and adds summaries, action items, and searchable transcripts so everyone gets clarity in minutes. Meetings, replace unnecessary meetings, speed up approvals, and on board faster. With Loom, you remove communication friction. It's a team changer. Try Loom today at Loom.com. Rich, I would love to start with the Celtics today because I would say about that. I would love to start with Noah who'd make those pants. Does that purple label Ralph? Purple? No, not purple. I think regular. Blue label? I think. No, no, no. Whatever that regular Ralph is, the rent thing is, yeah. It's blue and purple. It used to be blue, purple, black. Now it's just blue and purple. And you got that. Trying to get rid of this close snob in me because I've seen him. I was like, oh, but it's not this fancy one. It's like, but I, yeah. They're nice. Yeah. You can never go wrong. You have those forever. You can't be sponsored by Ralph or he's ridiculous. They don't shout outs on this show. That's fine, but they'll never sponsor it. Why would he? Plus, but what we can do is we can be dressed. Right. Just send us good enough. Yeah. Yeah. That is sponsored. Yeah. Yeah. I'll do it. So I would love to start with a Celtics because I had something to say. Jacobi on his pod said something about the Celtics that I love. I want to get to it. But Thunder beat the Celtics. And before we say anything, SGA broke Wilts 20 point record of consecutive games with 20 points. I don't care enough about it. 127. Yeah. 120 something. But the reason I don't care enough about it is, is like, well, it's a whole separate conversation. Like, what is the number of games actually tell you? To me, the significant thing is that it's more than anyone ever, right? Not the exact number for SGA because the level, the two things about SGA when I watch him rich, I am tempted to say he's overrated. There are other guys better than him. He's in the perfect situation. That's what I said. And I disagree. Well, I just, I mean, he's in the perfect situation. This and that. But there are two things that override that. You just got to give it up. Three things. One, he's a two way player. I love that. The other is that level of consistency means something, right? If your team can rely on you for that offense for season after season, that means something. And the third thing is he is a genuinely clutch player. When the game gets tight, he is able to consistently deliver. And I think those things, he, he, he, like I was going to say, the MVP's really Wembee or Yokech, he absolutely must be discussed. Absolutely. Yeah. But I wonder what the analytics say about draft picks from eight to 15. I know you brought that up before. Yeah, because when I look at Shay, it's always those guys that you don't expect. Quiet. And the season he's having unbelievable. Yannis was the 15th pick. Yeah. When you Kobe was the 13th pick. It's just something to be said about. In that range where it's like, we're not sure. We like them. There's upside, but, but the floor we don't think is high enough to draft them in the top three. I wonder if it's more franchise guys in that pocket than it is in the pocket of one that would that mean for this draft? Who do you see eight to 15 where you're like, this might be the steal. Braden Burries. Uh-huh. Why? Because he's a two way guard. He's going to be able to come right in and play. How close is he? He's six, five, six, six. But, but I think his game is going to allow him to be able to play. Off level basketball at a very young age. He's going to be one of those guys that, um, what about his game makes you think that he plays both. He's a first of all, he's a big guard, like a big guard. And that's where the league is going. The league is going to these big guards now to be a smaller day. I want to switch and stuff and you can defend. Right. To be a smaller guard, you have to be exceptional today. And we've seen it, right? I don't consider Tyree's maxi of a small guard. He's six three, but he's probably right. He look at a derriest guard and he's just dynamic like you're, but maxi and even ant to me, the reason like when I say who's going to be the next best player in the league to me, their height actually works like if ant was six six or maxi was six six, I might be like, he's going to be the best player in the world one day. Actually that height makes me say among the best players in the world. Yeah. I can see that, but what I'm saying is for buries, he just has that size that you want in a guard. And then I just think the ability to play both sides of the ball. Nowadays when you can come in and play both sides of the ball and be a part of that rotation to where a coach believes in you in real minutes on the floor defensively. Yeah. For you, if you say if you pick a dude and say him, it's because of a high basketball IQ. Oh. That's the number one thing. 100% that that's the that's the thing you have to have. If you if I asked you give me not an order, but give me the top five things that creates a championship team. What would it be? I'd say the number one. Not top five, just five things. Okay, the first thing that jumps to mind is you need a player on the floor who's like an extension of the coach and who enforces or embodies the philosophy of the team. Right, you need that guy on your team. I would say everyone has to have a high IQ. All the guys who play real minutes have to have a high IQ. Okay. You need a system that fits the players, right, as opposed to try to jam the players into a system. System IQ. And you need some size. You need some size. Yeah. And you need to play defense. If I'm thinking about, did I miss something? Those are the things that I think those all are good. Common commonalities with championship teams. I think you need a balanced roster that has IQ that exists within. Obviously you need a go to guy. As G.A. you're just driving the thunder so far. Yeah. But a go to guy that is willing to make his teammates better in key moments. See, there's key moments and then there's me moments. The guy that focuses on the me moments, you cannot win with that guy. I don't care what anybody says. People think like MJ, no, actually, if Kerr or Paxton is open or something, they're getting the ball. Key moment guy. He's not a me moment guy. The guy that focuses on the me moments, you cannot win, no way, no how. When you talk about IQ, where does the IQ start and stop? Because you're gonna play eight guys, right? You don't need all eight of them to have crazy eyes. You need the majority of them too though. Well, you need the offense initiators to have IQ. What I mean by that is. But Rich, I think you need. When you see teams with a great offense of initiator high IQ, but they're still not a great team. A lot of times it's because the passing from everybody else and the cutting and the. Well, this is what I was about to say. It's not done at a high enough level. Where does that, for me, obviously, if you got 20 kids in the classroom, all of them not gonna be Einstein, right for damn sure. But if on the floor, I can hit my big at the nail, high IQ. Obviously the point is. Oh, you're saying key positions must have a high, yes? Because that's. If you're power forward back in the day at least, it's getting all the rebound. But even that, Rich, when you think about the best power forwards who weren't even offensive players, like Rodman jumps to mod. You gotta hide that skill. High IQ. High IQ. Yeah. You know, like. It really, high IQ is probably the most important thing. Yeah, yeah. Skill set. So. So the thunder have all that, right? Thunder has to have this. Yeah, there's several teams that have it. Yeah, but thunder is one. Seltics. Yes. You're talking about the teams that's in the running for winning, because we can't name every team. Right. So it's. Let me say, let me transition to the Celtics right now. Jacobi made the point that on his pod that the Celtics went on to just now, the last two games, but they really won. They're the winners of the last couple days. Yeah, well, Jann and Brown got. He thrown out of a game against. And then Tatum didn't win. Against the spurs. That they were in it into. Okay, the spurs pulled away at the very end of the game. But we're in it until the end. And then last night, no Tatum. It comes down to really the final possession of the game. No Tatum. But I don't. We got what, 16 games left in the season? Is it 16? You can't really. I'm not getting too bogged down about a win or a loss right now. But right. That's what I'm saying. The fact that it was even competitive. Yes. I think we're at the point of the season where we know these teams, last night, is the finals match up possibly or not? The answers, yes. Right. That could be a finals match up. For sure. Look at these games going forward. But what sucks about it from a fans' point of view about the Celtics, the way it broke down is I'm very interested to see. We know that Tatum and Brown can win a title because they've done it. Right? I'm very interested to see though now. The step forward to Brown is taken in terms of his role on the team this year. Absent Tatum. Now that Tatum's back as good as Tatum's looked in more limited action in the lap, you know, when he got back. I wanted to see how do those two work at the end of a tight game against a likely finals opponent, right? And in both games, we didn't get to see it in neither game that we get to see it because they tossed Brown against the spurs and because Tatum didn't play last night. No way. I don't have time to see it. But in both games, it was close at the end. It would have been great to see how that worked out. They're going to the playoffs. You're going to have time to see it. And I would say this, if they were to win it this year, I've been a lot. I've been around a lot of championship teams. If they were to win it this year, it would be, I'm not going to say it would mean more because I don't know how they thought about the first one, but it would definitely show something a little more special because obviously when they won it, they were kind of expected to win it. This year, they not expected to win it. So to win when you're not expected to, that's a, no, who's hoping that they get out of the heat. That's a different feather in the cap. You know, who's hoping they get out of the East. I'll bet who San Antonio next, Nick Scott, I'm twice this year already. I think the next style of play is a bad matchup for San Antonio. Well, matchups. I can tell you. And the Celtics could easily bump the next. If they're a full strength, I think that, I think that's a great matchup. Celtics, Nick's because the Nick's have been playing as a unit all year and the Celtics have to figure it out with Tatum now. And maybe there are little thinner than the Nick's trying to think in terms of defending, well, Derek White, Brown, Richard off the bridge. Richard, but I'm talking about defensively though, because all the thing I'm thinking about is, how do you guard the guard to pick and roll with Bronson? I'm just trying to, it's hard. Yeah, trying to think of what that said. And the Nick's got a lot of shooting on the floor. Because when they wanted-- And they played defense. Well, the difference is when they wanted, it was so easy to switch everything because you had holiday. Yeah. If you switch, Tatum, if you switch, Brown, if you had a physical-- Yeah. --excellent defensive guard. Yeah. And you have Porzingus who's like a super tall. Yeah, but I'm just saying, when you're able to switch everything and not lose anything defensively, that makes you very-- But I think also because they have a center now who can score and a center who can play some defense, but it's not the same guy, where you have Porzingus, that's the same guy, who can change you defensively because of his size. This one would be tougher. It would be tougher for them to win it. Yeah. So if they did win it, that would show a lot. So nuggets beat the spurs without Wembee, by the way. Yeah. If they had to come-- --we'll get all the way back on them. --cass it was crazy last night. He was-- Listen, this is my point, Rich. They had to come all the way back on the spurs and the spurs didn't have who I consider the best player in basketball. Like when he's on the floor, Wembee, both ends of the floor, changes the game to me more than anyone else. Maybe I like Yokehitch better on the offense. You have to say Wembee's so much better defensive. But there's so many good players. You have to say one of the best players in basketball. I think Wembee is the best player in basketball. Because right now we can make the argument that Kauai looks like the best player in basketball. You can make whatever argument, but I think the winning argument right now is Wembee. And I looked it up. Do you know the spurs without Wembee in a decent sample size? Because he's missed a bunch of games. The spurs have won two-thirds of the games with how Wembee-- --they still have good-- --with Wembee. They win three-quarters of the games. Rich, it's time to say, like, I don't know what's taking everyone so long. They have dominated OKC this year. They have beaten Denver when they've had Wembee on the road without Wembee. They came close to beating Denver. They have-- they've beat-- except for the Knicks who seem to be a bad matchup for them, the West Coast teams-- they're better than those guys. They beat them all the time. Yeah, but if you know the spurs, if you know the spurs organization, they would say, talk to us when we win. I'm not. You're right. You don't know anything in the NBA till the playoffs are over, then you know everything. Yeah. But right now-- They don't want to change prematurely. --to win the whole thing. They don't want anything prematurely. Talk to them when you win. Who would be your odds on favor? To win it? I would have to see the matchups. I would have to see each playoff series set in terms of the seating, and then I can give you a better answer to that. I would say, OK, who's the best team in basketball? I mean, that changes every-- Spurs are the best team in basketball. But it changes every night. We just talked about this. It hasn't-- for the spurs, it doesn't change every night. Even without Wembee, a championship level team when they're healthy. Beereleague gets five. But here's what I'm saying. We've been able to see dominant teams, right? We saw 72 and 10 teams. We saw 73 and 19. We saw several teams winning 66 plus games. Sure. Right. We saw teams have dominance. We saw the same team go to the finals-- the same two teams go to the finals four years in a row. We've seen that. And today's league any given night teams get beat so I can't - I can't necessarily say. - I'm just saying, in the Western Conference, the Spurs, when they have matched up with other Western Conference teams at home and on the road are better than the other team. - But you talk about the other team. - And the other team is O.K.C. Denver. Just name a team, Denver. - I love the Spurs. You're never gonna get anything negative for me about the Spurs. I love the Spurs. Everything from top to bottom. - Yeah. - And I also love the Spurs Club, which you've never been to. - No, it's the best. Dining experience you can have in the NBA by far. - Your boy up, what's up? - Well, you have to go to games. You have to actually get out and do something. - Well, that's out of the question. - This is what I figured that one. - So, we think they're gonna door dash it to you from San Antonio. - Oh, can they? - Well, I mean, anything's possible. But no, seriously, when you go to the Spurs Club, it's the best restaurant in San Antonio by far. - All right, I'm in. - Okay. - So, meantime, one thing that does become apparent, we brought this stat up 'cause it was on TV like a week ago during a Nuggets game. The league leader and assists one player to another is Jamal Murray to Yo-Kitch, right? And by the way, good for Jamal Murray, who every year is not quite an all-star during the regular season. And then when he's healthy in the playoffs, you go, oh, that's an all-star. - Here's that, here's that. - This year he's an all-star in the regular season. - You already know that he's a clutch player in the playoffs. - Keep your regular season all-star. - Give me my playoff all-star. - By the way, I say this bell, Jimmy Butler all the time. - I want the playoff all-star. - Jimmy Butler, if you said, is Jimmy Butler a top five player most seasons, no one would say yes, until the playoffs, and everyone says yes, that means he's a top five player. - Guess what? - That's what that means. - Analytics don't show that. - They don't. - In the playoffs. - In the playoffs. - In the playoffs. - No, no, you can do analytics for the playoffs. - No. - Show it about Butler. - No, no, I'm saying-- - I'm saying when you look at the analytics of a player, you, Mr. Analytics. And then you say, oh, he did this, he did that. Chop that down to strictly these moments, these key moments. - I get it, but you can look at those two. - Is a key moment down. - No question. - No question. - No question. - In the meantime, make sure. - So Murray to Yokech leads the league and assists. No one player has more assists to another player than Murray has to Yokech, okay? - Fourth in the league, at least as per game, I think it is. Fourth in the league is Yokech to Murray. - No, we said this. - That's incredible. - That's incredible. - So the question is this, are they the best one, two punch, embassable? - Ever? - No, right now. - In the game today. - Oh. - As just as a one, two. And by the way, forget about Aaron Gordon, who's a great addition to that. - You didn't have that in every themselves. - That's just a one, two. - I mean, that's not really an argument. But Dave, I think-- - Is there one, two? - You maxi an edge comb eventually, but right now. But the problem with this is, when you talk about a one, two punch, it has to come with balance. 'Cause see, we could say the two, top two guys on the team, you could say, okay, when Tatum and Brown is healthy, that. - Yeah. - But, but they're not, that's not a balanced thing, 'cause you don't necessarily see them in pick and roll actions for each other or whatnot. - I see, you said. - Where are some targets? - Where are they working together? - Yes. - But with Tatum and Browner on the team, they're influenced on the game because they're both on the floor. - Yeah, but that's not really a one, two punch. That's two guys on the team that's a thing. - You're making sure. - A good distinction. But I would say, - Like Malone, like Shaq and Kobe. - Yeah, stop into Malone. - Malone is Stockton. Okay, even with Mike and Pippin, Mike and Pippin was the best two guys on a team. You can put on a team together. But they weren't really a one, two punch. - I understand what you mean, but so as a one, two punch. - Who was your best duo? Give me your top five deals all time. - All time? - Yes. Jordan and Pippin, Shaq and Kobe. - Well, not top five. - Five. Give me five. - Jordan and Pippin, Shaq and Kobe. Those are the two obvious ones. I'm missing a big one. - Oh, sure. - LeBron and Wade. - But they're not a, yeah. - Okay, yeah. - I think LeBron has three of those teams. People would say Jerry Weston will Chamberlain, that was before my time. - Wait a minute. I didn't have enough. - I saw, I would not, I would not, I would not, I would not, I would not put Stockton Malone there. - I would not put Stockton Malone there. Who am I missing? I'm missing someone. Some, like Shaq and Kobe are the, is the answer in a way because they were both as basically as good as history has ever produced at what they did and they were on the same team basically in their primes. So like that, that's the answer. Jordan and Pippin had maybe more value than Shaq and Kobe, but it was heavily weighted toward MJ. Like Pippin as great as he was was not quite what, Kobe or Shaq were at their best. So who am I missing? I'm missing someone big, I know. How came in Drexler, no? - In the old times. - You talking about in college? - No, no, no. I'm saying you're saying on the, yeah, I wouldn't put the tree there. No. - No. - What about Duncan and Parker? - No. - They won? - They won five. - No. - Yeah, but a lot of that was genobly. That was a trio. You know, like Parker, as great as Parker, Parker was a great player. He was no. No, that was a one, - You definitely wasn't one one A. That was Duncan and genobly in part one. - You missing, and again, this is not Mr. Bias, but it's just fact. - Kyrie and LeBron? - Yes, they won. - Could be. - There's no could be. - No, but I'm saying that was one year that they really didn't like that. That they really did it like that. - What do you mean, they went to the finals three years in a row? - Kyrie got hurt in that finals. - No matter, we're talking about the seasons, not just based on the finals. - No, that I wouldn't put them there quite, no. - Okay. LeBron and Wade. - Yeah. - But it close. - LeBron and AD. - No, they didn't, again, didn't happen long enough. They got one-- - What do you mean, they placed six years together? - Yes, but-- - Seven. - The proof in the book. Oh, I'll tell you who, Bird and McCale, Magic and Kree. - 100%. - Yeah, I was part of the apartment. - I had that one. - I thought it was Magic and Kree. - Let me do that again. Let me do that again. - No, it's not a right or wrong. - It is a right or wrong. - No, no, no. There's a right or wrong. In my lifetime, Jordan and Pippin, Kobe and Shaq, Magic and Kree, Bird and McCale. - Yes. - And who else did I say? I said someone else. - Kobe and Shaq. - I did that already. What the hell is the matter with me right now? - Well, we got Rob-- - We got Rob the Piny and Shaq. We got Rob the Piny and Shaq. - I said one other. Now I can't think of it. I don't know. I got those four firsts. - Where'd you go, by the teams? Nobody on the nicks, nobody on the pistons. - No. - Nobody on the Warriors. - Oh, well, Lebron and Wade. - Oh, Lebron and Wade, especially in that second season together, 'cause Wade was still kind of close to his prime. - Okay, so just for clarity, the top duels of all time in NBA. - Yup. - You pick-- - Jordan Pippin. - Jordan Pippin. - Shaq, Kobe. - Magic and Kree. - Magic and Kree. - Bird, McCale. - Bird, McCale. Lebron and Wade. - Yeah, that fifth slot, I'd have to think about, but right now let's put them in there and say, 'til I can think of something else. - Who else would you put? Only 'cause Wade was a little bit slipping by the time Lebron had peaked. It didn't line up exactly. - Well, we didn't say it had to be perfect, but they went to four straight finals. - They did. And they won, too. - Yeah. - So I'm saying, but who else would you, who else would you pick there? - Again, in history, you got to put Jerry West and with J. Bolemore on the same. - J. West, I mean, they don't, we know where they're going. 'Cause it's before our time. - It's before our time. - Okay, let's say modern NBA after the absorption of the ABN. - Yeah. - Starting with a three point shot, right? - Yeah. - I think you, I think you, it was really good. - Say Robinson and Duncan that one year. - No, that's not it. - That's not it, CS. - If that's the case, then you gotta go Parker and Duncan. - Nah. - Parker, you can't do, Parker was more valuable than Genobileon that team. If he was, it was by that point. - Yes, I think he was. - I think he was. - He won finals MVP. - I might even say, you know what, I would say, I think Genobile ranks higher for two guards than Parker does for point guards all the time. Why not say Genobileon, Duncan? - Yeah, I mean, I mean, Genobileon was incredible. - Beacons. - Okay, we can't, but that was great. No, that was great. - Oh, duh, sorry. Let's do this again. It's such an obvious one. - It's not due to this again. - No, no, no, no, no, no, I got it. I'm gonna say it. I'm gonna say it. I'm gonna say it. Jordan Pippen, Shaq Koby, Magic Karim, Bird McHale, KD and Steph, done. - I said, I actually don't want this. - KD and Steph, you said KD and Steph and I missed it? - No, no, no, I asked, I was just naming a team for you so you could try to get the team. - We gonna say warriors, oh did we? - I said warriors. - Oh, well, I'm an idiot then, or I wasn't listening. KD and Steph, done. Those were the five. - Okay, that should've five. - Great. - What the hell took me so long? - Thanks a lot, you didn't come. - I know what took you so long. - What's that? - You don't really know basketball. - Why is the one who came up with it, not you? - No, I came up with an ask you the question. - Yeah, but you were gonna help me out at some point and said, why would I help you out? You pretend to know everything and the fact is, - I do know everything, I just have to, at my age I have to go through the files. - And by the way, and I'm doing like the microfilm, not the Google search. - Max, I just want you to know, there's a video floating around out there of you shooting these jump shots. - I wish I could, it's worse than you think. - It's not a joke. - Nobody is gonna take what you say in basketball. - Rich, it's much worse than you think, that's not a jump shot. - What is it? - It's a free throw. - Oh God. - I'll tell that story one. - But here's the thing. The good thing is help is on the way, because you just so happen to have a podcast - Let's do it. - Who's one of the best shooters ever. - Let's do it. - So, I can help you out. - BTS. - So who's, I'm doing a pod with who's Steph Clayho? - No, what's she mean? We're doing a me. Oh. You're one of the best shooters ever. You didn't notice? You know everything else. You say it before. You say it to know everything else. I've heard you say this before. Again, this is my point. You know what you need? Sleep. Because here's the thing. I am a bit under slept. You're right about that. Why is it? Yeah. That great sleep is so hard to get. Get rich quick. Are we doing get rich quick right now? This is my get rich quick. OK, let's hear it. I just, I mean, I don't know if it's a get rich quick. It's probably, because I'm pouring the situation. Like, you know, not great sleep. I'm jealous of people that can go to sleep for 12 hours. How do you do that? You can't at this age. You can't. Your kid can do it. No, I know people that go to sleep for 12 hours. At our age, they go to sleep for 12 straight hours, 8 hours, 9 hours, 10 hours, 12 hours. 12 hours. 12 hours. If I get like a sleep 12 hours. If I get like a 45 minute nap, by the way, the other night, I took a nap. Literally, I must have went to sleep for like an hour nap. I slept so good in that hour. I woke up and I thought it was the next day. It was, I had to go to dinner at 8.30. It was 7.25. I saw Dean. I'm like, I thought Dean was leaving out to go to come to set. And I said, Dean, why'd you let me sleep all the way through the night? He's like, what are you talking about? He's like, man, we going to dinner at 8.30. I'm like, what you mean is 7.25 in the morning goes, no, is 7.25 at night? Oh, that's the best. But I felt like I slept. It's because like you caught the whole cycle of sleep and just woke up at the right spot. And you know, I was, I was moving for three days. I might have slept like, I don't know, 10 hours in those three days. So it's supposed to be warm, cool head, warm feet supposed to help you sleep. Keep your, your head cool in your feet. That's why you want the pillow cool. And sometimes I'll throw on socks if my feet are cold. But cool head, warm feet. So I have to get like a cold towel. No, I don't know. Like one of those pillows that, you know, they have those pillows that keep it cool. Yeah. The way I kept it. Well, I should try that to see what happens. I am from Cleveland. Lake Erie's always frozen. Those are ways of listening. I may try that. Yeah. No, just a light little, not for too long. That is, that's actually. Cool head, cold feet. I never heard that. But, say, sleep, warm feet, sleep. I tell you something else, use your note. Another good one is what? Get a book, right? You start to read the book. If you hate the book because it's boring, it'll put you to sleep. If you really are into the book because it's good, your body will trick you like, it's that thing that's working. It's like, oh, I'm into this. I don't want to fall asleep. Then you'll wind up falling asleep. Either way, you read to put yourself to sleep. And it keeps you off the phone. And I started taking my own advice two nights ago. I stopped doom scrolling. I talked about this on the show. I started doom scrolling more and more at the end of the night and losing sleep because it's the dumbest thing ever. I didn't even like it. And so I started reading, actually, whenever I haven't read a book in a little bit, I get back into reading books by reading sports books. Mike Ficaro, the writer at the sports writer, New York Post, has a book out called, what's it called, the boss of bosses, it's about the Steinbrenners and their ownership of the Yankees. So I read a couple chapters of that before I went to sleep last couple nights. Did you see, speaking of college, did you, and I don't want to get on my max, my man, but there was just a bad college. No, no, I know the college. Yeah, but because this came into my mind, the floor for the big 12 tournament, did you see this? Yeah, it kept changing and the players are complaining because they're slipping or something or no, it's giving them migraines. But it was more like a TV screen and I, you know, like an LED TV screen. But it was so dangerous. Thank God, they're changing it. They're changing it to the real wood. And I'm all for trying new things. Yeah, I like that that they tried it. Maybe you don't try it on that stage, but yeah, there's something, let's try to put like a 4K shot clock or something. Not messed with the floor. I think the appeal is you can change it from a wood floor to different designs to this and that and yeah, but you talk about TV screen that they're playing on. Well, there's too many. I mean, that's how you get the soft tissue injury very fast. Yeah, it's a good point. And there are too many of them already in the NBA. Yeah, let embassagable period. Okay, Luca drop 51, Rich. I mean, they're playing a, they're playing a bad team in the bulls. Luca drop 51, 10 and 9. It's almost a 50 point triple double. That's talent. I got to take credit for this. I'm taking credit for it. It's me. Let's be honest. Let's be honest. How are you taking credit for somebody else's? Why? It's thanks to me. I'll explain it. I open the floodgates. When I pointed out publicly, I was very critical of my criticism. I was very public with my criticism of Luca Doncius play this year, especially defensively and especially complaining to the refs all the time. And I read some stat. I have no idea if this stat is true. But I hope it's true because it's incredible. He was complaining over 90% of the possessions, 90%. So really what that complaining is about, Rich, when you really look at it, it's an excuse not to run down the floor and play to get back and play defense. If you're complaining to the ref, you can't, right? No. So since I did that, it opened the floodgates. Everyone's been on Luca. And there was some blog. I forgot which one. I'm sorry because they pointed it out. I should remember which. What? Some blog that said, I think it was yesterday that wrote that since I criticized Luca, they showed all the games that is just what you texted about was something. Yeah. Was it your barker or something like that? May have text me something. Yeah, they said yes. It was your text because it just to our land. Who wrote the article? Jacobi. Huh? Sean King. Sean King. Sean King. Sean King. Sean King. Sean King. Sean King. Sorry. Sean King wrote this article where he said, since I criticized him, I'm sorry. I've criticized Luca here is games and he's been going off. Let's face it. He brought the criticism public. Everyone started criticizing him. It's the emperor has no clothes. Everyone's like, Luca's incredible. Luca's incredible. And it takes one person to say, you know what? What about this? Not that other people weren't saying it, but the level of criticism was such that everyone started saying it and that was the end of that. Now you're welcome. Lakers, fans, you're welcome. Well, I'll say this. Are you giving me credit for this? No, I'm not giving you credit because I saw how many points are the 51 do I get? I saw your shot. Yeah. You're what, how tall are you? Nowadays five, ten and a half, maybe, okay, five, ten and a half. I'm not giving up that half. I was like five, eleven, twenty or so. So you try to take credit for a guy that's six, seven. Yeah. With a handle and a jump shot. Top three. Pick the issue of radiation. All NBA, all all star in the MVP race. And you're taking credit for his production on a Thursday night. Do you understand that the great motivators rich, the Pat Riley's, the Phil Jackson's, the Max Calermons, they know how to push buttons. So you could put your, the Pat Riley, Phil Jackson's and Max Calermons. So you put yourself in the, the, the, the, the community of some of the greatest coaches ever. Who? Who's, who's there? Pat Riley. Phil Jackson. And, and who you're saying those else is there? Not Max Calermons. Oh, okay. I see. Motivated. I told you we're going to say Max Calermons and then I'd say clip that and then we could send that out on social media. No, because, but when I say I'm one of the best shooters in the world, you try to, you know, I said, okay, it's great that you are. And, you know, you didn't. You said, am I doing a podcast with Steph for clay? Well, because if someone says the best shooter in the world, that's, do you want me to call Steph and ask him? Do you want to call? Do you want the best shooter in the world? No, do you want to call Steph and ask Steph? Am I in the company of he and clay? I keep telling you it's Dame, Steph, Clay, Rich, Ray. What's great about this show is when someone says something outrageous, you only have to wait about 30 seconds for the other guy to say something just as outrageous. No, that's not. That's not, and those are, look, I didn't even clue Reggie. Reggie and I talked about this a lot. You have to show me articles where blogs are giving you credit for the shot. Because they're giving me credit, all these blogging me credit for all these and see how I did that is like one. There's like two blogs, all these, but no, other people have pointed it out. You know, what they said was what they, what they really said. He can have most of the points, but I'm taking like 20 of the points. He can have 31. Okay. But you go, no, what the good thing about this is this is great for our behind the scene stuff. Oh, yeah. Yeah, this is great. Absolutely. I'm going to show you how to shoot a free throw. Great. So, uh, so wait, are you picking? The team you're picking to win it all first. Okay. Okay. So you, uh, uh, uh, they'll get out of the West. I'm the only thing is, if the next scene in the finals, that's going to be real. The next scene, the next have a way of playing the seams to bother them, right? There's a certain slower pace that the next play with, but they're able to hit shots late in the clock. They're like, they're able to slow the spurs down a bit. Do you think Kawaii should be in the MVP race right now? Yeah. He is playing phenomenal basketball. Yeah. So, you know, the team that's going to be in the coach of the year race. Absolutely. Absolutely. They started compared to the way they could prepare absolutely tie. They started with six and 15 before we get there real quick. I think JJ Redick should be too. And what I'm curious to see is how JJ, like all seriousness. Like when, when Luca feels challenged or like people are questioning him, he seems to respond. Last night he was drawing with that, what's his name on the bulls and, and he obliterated him, right? He, Luca seems to respond to that kind of criticism. J.J. Reddick had the Lakers winning earlier this season with two of his best three players frequently out. He has them playing defense. When you look at the roster, not a defensive team, he got in Luca's face at the right time I felt. And it seemed to have an effect. And the question is, will he push his Lucas buttons in the playoffs? And my prediction is, yes, I think both L.A. coaches are in the coach of the year conversation because the clippers started with the worst record in basketball, basically, and they've been killing it since then. In order to win, you have to have that relationship with players and players have to have relationships like that with coaches. I don't know why that was made a big deal up at all. Right. Like I've never been a part of any sports success where players wasn't challenged. Right. That just doesn't make sense. That's part of it. You ready for five minute max? How? What? Another one? Yeah. You did like three, five minute max already. Those are just, those are just points. This is a five minute max. Five minute max is a thought outtake about a certain subject that has not been a success. Well, you know what? You're right because the other stuff you talked about was not thought out. So yes, I'm ready for the five minute max. Let's go. The way the way you have, I have access to you at the gym. You're going to, like one of the great shooters in the world, apparently, right? Is have access to that private shooting lesson. Right. That's amazing. Do you have access to my genius? This is a very privileged position on a daily basis. You get the heath. I'm I.O.G. Because overgeneous. Yeah. That's what it means. O.G. Overgeneous. Between your text calls and having to do this show with you. I'm like, "June, but I'm going to get you shot." It's too much. All right. Listen. So I'm thinking about the Ida bio thing and people's reactions to add a bio. And I thought you were, you spoke eloquently about who BAM out of bio is, why he deserves to be celebrated and what people thinking when they're attacking him, right? I thought that was good. And it occurred to me that something, something I remembered rich from that show you said about Will. Why isn't there any video? You were kind of joking around about Will's 100 point game. Talking about, and I noticed this pop up like a bunch of months ago. I started seeing on social media people with this conspiracy theory that Will's 100 point game never actually happened. It happened. I didn't know what that was about. Because so many people nowadays are so there's so much misinformation about so many things. People are getting their information for TikTok, right? That that I thought maybe that's just a sign of the time so everyone's conspiracy. We really land on them. All these nonsense, right? And then it occurred to me after the BAM thing, what's actually going on. You know what that conspiracy stuff about Will really was? That's Kobe fans. Kobe stands really. Not thinking at the time, whether it's conscious or unconscious, if we take 100 points away from Will, Kobe has the all time record. So you so now BAM has 83. That's what infuriated the Kobe fans so much. Not if if they're like, oh, even if we take 100 away from Will, there's still someone with more than Kobe. And the reason for that is, I think, and I brought this up the other day. I want to get a little deeper into it. If the idols of your time are the greatest idols ever, or the, you know, then your time was the greatest time ever. Yes, your time. It's your and by extension, you and your time had meaning. You know, in this infinite universe or multiverse or whatever, eight billion people on the planet earth, it's easy to feel meaningless, but it, but so sports in a way becomes people's religion because and the idol becomes there's like sports god because when you see the best player of a given era, LeBron, Kobe, whoever it is, when your eyes are on them, you know, there's no way that these other guys they're talking about could be better than this. Nothing could ever be better than this, right? So you start to kind of deny history. You start getting angry at the future as that unfolds because it's no longer your time. You're not watching that in your formative years. Right. And so you and so you somehow feel diminished, which is, look, when I was a kid, I used to argue with old time, a sugar Ray Leonard was better than sugar Ray Robinson. He wasn't, but I thought he was when I was a kid and it was somehow important to me that he'd be, but he wasn't. I was wrong. The greatest baseball player ever played a hundred years ago, Babe Ruth. You can make any argument you want because you want to make this point at that point, but actually the most supported objective argument is Babe Ruth. And if you, if all, if you think the greatest, by the way, the greatest football player ever played it for my hated enemy, the Patriots, the Boston team, Tom Brady, he just retired very recently. If you think all the greatest players are all from when you were experiencing your formative years, come on, man, what do you think the odds of that actually are? So for Kobe fans, especially they have a very strong need to believe, to make the argument that if if he's not the greatest, at least he's the next thing to Jordan, right. And that's what the bam stuff is about. And that's what the, that's what the will stuff was about. But Kobe was incredible. He was among the greatest ever. And I'm here to tell you he doesn't need to be the greatest ever for you to love him because he's the idol of your childhood or whatever it is for you to celebrate how great he was because he really was that great. But it's okay. We'll really score to a hundred points and you don't have to go at them scoring 83. He really scored 83. He really scored 83 points. Yeah. That's it. I was five minute max. How long? Three and a half minutes. No, that was like six minutes, but it don't matter. Oh, four and a half minutes. Okay. Yeah. It was your 15, five and a max. But the thing about it is this. I was not, I can accept that from fans or stands or whatever you want to call it. Great. They supposed to do that. When I was really taking back by word, former players and then people in the media who were who was around our game all the time trying to discredit it, whether you were a fan of of Kobe or not, I just didn't understand that part because we know how hard it is to score eight points in a game. Let alone 83 points in a game. And if you want to make the argument that the last four minutes or this or that, you know what? I'm not giving you that. And I love what Sposed said. What Sposed was he was like, I can't say what he said. But basically, you could read between the lines. What he said. Wasn't caring about what nobody had to say or think. And I don't blame him like, did enough of all of that. So, Bam had 83. It was a great moment. And all the discrediting and what do you go on all the time? Yeah. But what are you mad about? It goes on getting the slice of the time and the arguments. I don't want to get into whole MJ thing who the record chose as the greatest. But no, we know who's the greatest. We do. But but LeBron people do this psychologically. Motivated. But they're not going to have to say any credit. It get about every error does this. I don't like when MJ fans do it because it's on nest and MJ fans do it. They'll attack LeBron. Oh, he couldn't have played in that. Are you insane? LeBron would have dominated any error he played in. Jordan's still greater. You say LeBron's still great. But the point is, you don't need to go to those things. Just, you know, you can like, but it's hard for people to be emotionally. I said, I'd rather go to dinner and have the conversation amongst the people that actually played the game at the level that we're talking about. And hear them talk about it. And then, I just scored 51 points in an NBA game. Who did you? Yeah. Do you see what Luke had did? I, it's because of my mother and then I want to be a part of the room or the conversation where they get access to all this deal flow and let me put my little, you know, coins in there. That's what I want. Paul has never had a thought that didn't involve somehow meeking a dollar. Speaking of Sugar Ray Robinson. Yeah. I like Sugar Ray Robinson. Although I didn't see many of his fights, but the old stuff I saw. Yeah. Sugar Ray Leonard and also Sugar Ray from Harlem Knights. He was a real, real guy. Raise boom boom room. That's a different movie, but no, Sugar Ray, we got to watch Harlem. That's what we should do. We should watch. It was so good. I was incredible. Harlem Knights was so good. Yeah. Cause the fact that the fact that any Murphy put all those people together, like he really was him. Han homage. That was really hard. He just want to do a move with Richard prior. That was really what that was also paying homage to all the other comedies. No question. By the way, the Delo Rees Red Fox stuff was so good with the orange juice. Yeah. Why would you swallow? Let's watch you swallow it. Should that what happened? But that would happen in real life. Yeah. Right. The worst thing you could do is that drink first of Harlem. Nice. That was that's the orcidio scene where he just keep quick. Yes. But listen, have you ever been in a situation where and I've been in a situation before you going - And grandma's house was the house. 'Cause you know, in grandma's house, you may have two uncles in the basement. You may not want two uncles in the basement. They are arguing about something they don't have nothing to do with nothing. But then somebody may come in and have just a fego, a fruit punch fego. This is my drink. Put it in a refrigerator. It's the worst thing you can do because the risk of that fego. - You're never seeing that thing again. Come on. - You want to see it. Listen, you want to see it all out. War? - Of course. - Drink somebody's fego. Drink, drink. Okay, I'm telling you, you want to see a boxing match? Zoo for my ass. (laughing) You want to see a heavy weight about drink that fruit punch fego. - Yeah. - And it could be a, by the way, you could be getting ready to fight a semi-year-old kid about that fego. 'Cause it wasn't yours. You had no business touching it. And they like, oh, I thought, you ain't thought nothing. - You knew exactly what you were doing. - You knew what? Now, think yourself down the street and get me another one. I don't have the money. Well, you better find it. I mean, this is a real thing. - Was that going on in Cleveland like sending kids to the store for quarter orders and stuff? - Yes. Yes, all the time. But that was a real, that was started fight. - You ready to do emails? - Yeah, what we got? - Jim Chitty wanted to weigh in on the discussion about BAM's 83 point game and the idea that Kobe would have told him to do it again. He said nothing but respect for BAM, the Adiata. When Kobe scored 62 and 3/4 against Dallas, he didn't stay in to chase records. Phil Jackson sat him for the fourth and after the game. Kobe said something to the effect of will do it when we need it. I don't think Kobe would have supported the idea of pushing for more points when your team is up by 20 plus. Here's the thing about Kobe though. Kobe was not gonna score 100 points in a game. 100 points in, I mean, like, look, MJ could have also scored, a lot of great scores if they're just trying to score, a lot of points can score a lot of points. 100 points was really out of reach. I think if Kobe would have had 62 through 3/4 and the record was 81, I think he'd have stayed in the game to get the record. Like, because that's possible. He's scored 20 plus points, 20 or more points basically on average per quarter to get to 62 after 3/4. So the reason BAM chases the record at the end is because it's within reach. Do people really want to see on a night that can be historic? You'll remember forever a guy be like, ah, we got this in hand. I'll sit down with 72. Stop everybody. If Kobe in the 62 point game, if the record was 81 points, he would have stayed in for the fourth quarter to break the record. Why not? You know what I thought was, I thought was hilarious. Them saying people saying, oh, he should have subbed out at 80. - So, 'cause they were trying to protect Kobe. - What are you trying to protect? - They're trying to protect Kobe. - That was like Kobe doesn't need your protection. - I just thought of Kobe's record speaks for itself. - Yeah. I just thought of what's hilarious. - But did you see BAM's teammates? How they actually wanted him to get the record? - Of course. - I thought that was pretty cool. - I agree. Marcello or Marcello from Flushing Queens, NBA's gone through dramatic changes throughout its history, introduction to the three point line, point cards evolving into scoring threats, et cetera, et cetera. What do you think the next major evolution of the sport will be? - You have any ideas, Rich? - Well, I hope it's not something coming from you, 'cause it desiccated. - I have the best ideas. - The best ideas. - What is it? - Okay. So, you wanna get rid of the three point, or lessen the number of threes taken? How about this? People wanna bring back the line. Why? - I know it's dark sand. - Shocking up more and more, right? - I would say this. What if, like, what kind of play do you wanna see? You wanna see more driving? You wanna see more middies? You want, you can assign-- - I'm actually fine. I don't wanna see anything. - Okay, then you can leave it alone. - But for example, you can incentivize people to play the way you want them to play. If you want middies to mean more, make them worth more. If you want, if certain shots are tougher that you would like to reward, incentivize the players to play in that style. That's why I know what you're doing. - People should threes because it's worth an extra point. That's why they do it. - Know what you're doing? You're taking those beautiful paths you have and turning them into leggings. I don't want that. No, we're not doing that, none of that. - Because you feel like nothing has to change. I heard Darryl Morris say he agrees is to, like, he's the one fighting like, "Hey, we need fewer threes in the game. Take away the corner threes." - Well, taking away a corner three is not that drastic of a change. I think it started there, right? - What did? - Was it always a corner three? - You don't know. - Yeah, there was a three point line. In my memory, is it a three point line if you shot from beyond the arc? That's three points. - Yeah. But taking away the corner three wouldn't be that big of a change. - It would change offences though. - Yeah, but I'm saying it wouldn't be, actually not. I take that back. Don't take away the corner three. The corner three is one of those shots that number one has made guys a ton of money. So I always think of how it affects-- - You don't feel like you're always to make money. - No, but I always think of how it affects players. And it's bad enough we're in the system where it's like the half and half knots now there's really no middle class. I'm not changing anything. - You're saying that with low-w would the middle class-- - If anything, bring back the middle class. - But you're thinking about it from an agent's point of view. - I'm always thinking about it from agent's point of view. - Right. - From a fans point of view, like to me, look, it got to a place in the 90s where there was really too much rough defense and it was not a flowing kind of game. And I get that, people didn't like it. I like this because I grew up with it. Or formative, you know, a fierce thing again. But that's, I get it. But this game is, it means odories. - Too, too many threes taken in too many games. - But that's the back, that's not-- - The outcome's very wildly just on the variance of how many-- - Okay, let's talk about that. - Let's talk real basketball. That's not the system's fault. That is the leak, when I say the leak, not the NBA. It's a copycat leak. So if you wanna follow the train of shooting threes, that's your prerogative as a team. No one's-- - But they're following the incentives, right? - No, but it's not-- - Yeah, but it's not mandatory. - But it's not mandatory. - So in baseball, what they figured out over time is the thing that has the most value is forget about high on base percentages or don't forget about them. But home runs and walks are super good. And for various reasons, we don't have to get into. And other things that they valued, let's say in the '80s, not as effective in terms of winning. So teams got it. So players from youth up, get away from the stuff that they used to do because that's not the path to success. If you incentivize behavior, you can't then tell people, we'll just use willpower not to follow your incentives. Why would they do that? - Yes, but not many championships has been won without the three being featured more than has been. - In not in recent years? - No, but we're talking about overall. - But that's because things changed. If you know-- - This is what I'm saying. - But once they changed, they're not going back to the old stuff. - Yes, but what I'm saying is if you have a roster, that doesn't include great shooting, and your system says shoot more threes, then that's bad on your part. That's not bad on the league's part. The league's not telling you to do that. They're not. - Everyone today is a better shooter than they used to be because throughout-- - And if you want to draw more-- - If you want to do more-- - Rich, it's like, I'll go back to the baseball analogy. The kind of guy, like the number of strikeouts that your average player has now and the number of home runs is so much higher than it was when I was a kid, right? That even if you have players who you say, they're not a great home run hitter or they don't strike out a lot, they still do both things much more than the average player when I was a kid. You could say a team doesn't have shooting, but the average team that doesn't have shooting has much more shooting than they used to have. - Okay, you're down one. - Yep. - It's 10 seconds to go. Do you want your guys shooting a 18 footer? Or you want them shooting a 3? - Depends who has the open look. - Your best shooter on your team. - I'd rather have them a little closer to the basket. - Okay then. So what are we talking about? My thing is, is up to you. You don't have to take all these three. - You don't have to, but you will as the point. Like do you want to stand on principle or do you want to actually get the product to win? - I want to win the game. I want to win the game. What product? The product is W. - You know, but the fan product, the point is the way you get wins. - If you win, your fans will be there. - But the overall interest in the league, even if certain teams are winning, taking advantage of these incentives, they follow them and they have the right teams to win. The overall interest in the league will decrease, if you're not giving that. - I don't believe that. - Because summers are product that they want to see. That's not true. They want to see. - You don't believe that if the product people want to see is less than that the interest will be less than. - You're moving to Goldpost. What I'm saying is, if you put a great brand of basketball on the floor and I'm a fan of this team and this team is winning based upon the great brand of basketball that's being implemented on the floor, knighting the knight out. I'm not gonna be upset about that. - No doubt, as a fan of my team wins. - As a fan of that team, but I'm making you Commissioner of Basketball. I'm making you King of Basketball. Forget about Commissioner, you do whatever you want. Now, your goal is to make basketball as popular as possible. Obviously, they don't call you poor Paul. You want to expand the reach, right? and the market. If you give people a product that is too homogenized because everyone's playing the same way, it all looks the same points are diminished because everyone's hitting three's all the time. It's not as big a deal. That's not as good as a tweaked product where that's not in the game. Yeah, but what I'm saying is, even if you tweaked a product, right, it's still up to each team to determine how they want to strategize within that product availability. So what I would say if I was the king of basketball or the commissioner or whatever is, I would encourage teams to develop a character within your play that attracts fans consistently and builds the culture that they can follow throughout. Like if you, you know, like people follow teams, players, etc. and soccer, they're die hard because they grew up in neighborhood. You can walk to the stadium. You're never changing if you're a Chelsea fan or a Liverpool fan or Arsenal fan or Tottenham, whatever the case may be, real Madrid. In basketball, you tend to follow players. If you like this guy and he goes to another team, you're not necessarily caring about the team. You care more about the players. You have those type of things going on for sure. But then you have just hardcore fans of teams that's been that way because my dad took me to my first game or my grandfather like this or my grandmother like that. So it's it varies. All I'm saying is no matter what the system is holistically, right? The product. Four point play, take away the three point shot, a corner, three, whatever you want to call it. But I don't think you should start getting more for a mid post or two or four points for a dunk. Maybe not, but you have to figure out incentives like because that have to figure out incentives or rules that insent that everyone's always going to try and exploit the rules. Any game you play, the best players exploit the rules the best. That's what makes them the best. That's what, you know, foul hunting. If you if you give them the call, they're going to continue. Yeah, but we can't kind of die. You stop giving them a call. They won't foul hunt because they're not getting rewarded for it. We have a diamond max. We can't turn into a full gazing. I just can't do it. So you start to do that gimmicky stuff. But the three point shot was gimmicky. Not really. The three point shot became an evolution of the game was a three point shot. The advent of the three point shot. You should be resistence to it. But the ones who embraced it the most got ahead of the curve. Yes. From Rick Patino with the bomb squad of the nicks. Dantonie with seven seconds or less. And ultimately with Mark Jackson and then Steve Kerr in in and then Darryl Mori took it to the next level. They're always going to be people who take the the the the rules and the way that shapes the game. And they will exploit it to the fullest. Right. So why don't we make rules where at least try to we won't know the unintended consequences of the rules. We'll see how people exploit it. But you try to make rules where the exploitation of those rules results in a product people want to see. But the most difficult thing to do is shoot the ball. Okay. So if you're being rewarded for added distance within shooting the ball, I totally understand. I don't mind saying get rid of the three. No, no, you might get rich. I totally understand it. Now would you want to make a four point play certain spots on the floor? Yeah. But but maybe even like. I don't know how I have to think about it more. But you know, if you want if you want pick and roll to be rewarded more, if like I'm not saying you do, but let's say you want to leave with pick and roll. If someone completed a successful pick and roll a roll instead of instead of a pop, right? You would give them you would give them some incentive. I give you anything. I'm giving you a film. Right. But what I'm saying is if you wanted hypothetically, if you wanted more rolling to the basket, you could reward that differently. And then you will get more rolling to the basket. No, you get more rolling to the basket when that player recognizes that this actually works. If I set a screen, it actually works when you get more points. No, if you didn't get an extra point, they wouldn't be shooting from three. No, but you shouldn't have to give an extra point for what we know works. If I set a screen and roll and you don't throw that pocket pass because either you can't throw it or you just are too selfish to throw it. Then I don't want you on my team. You want to die on you want to stand on principle. But but but when the incentive is a certain way, it doesn't matter. It you talking people into doing the right thing is never going to work. You have to incentivize them with rewards for it and punishments for it. You want to you want to live on can we get to the next one? cartoon. I don't know what's going on in that brain of yours. Like you want to change the game. Luckily you have access to it basically whenever you want lucky lucky me. That's what the book should have actually been about. All right. Do we have a copy of the book here? You should have a copy of this book. It was a note. I had a copy of the book. It's a genius seller list. I didn't take it and every and not only genius around here. I refer to it all the time and we never show it. Okay. Lucky me by Rich Paul. Check it out. Buy it. All right. 48 year old Boston fan here. Love the show. So glad you're doing it. Rich love the risk you're taking being this media max love the you bringing your depth of experience to it. Please let me know how a tribe called quest didn't make it into your discussion. Please tell me you're doing this off the cuff. Anyway, keep it rolling. Most of all we love tribe called question. They actually did make it in our discussion somewhat, but they just I was thinking more about we were talking about top five groups of all time. Yeah. Out you need a representation from the South. Outcast should be on it. Yes. So. So well. But but like I guess we both made it for me. But you take out. So it takes you. Yeah. I'll take out. They from the South. Porto. But the reason try try to have great albums to me. There's a difference here. I hate when people over intellectualized music because you're just supposed to enjoy it. Whatever you like. But oh, oh, we got lucky me. Dean bring it on. Let's see it. That's not the book. It doesn't matter. It's the cover of the book. Rich. It's a giant book actually. So when you buy it, you got to put it on a big coffee table. Yeah. Yeah. Lucky me. Okay. So all right. We've seen it now. We're going to keep it up the whole. Well, I don't know. You told me how do we just show it and then we take it off. I don't mean come on. That'd be extra. I got a charge extra for that. So try. So this is what I would say. There are some albums. You put it on the background. You have some people over. You know, back then because that was when I was a teenager. Guys, girls, whatever. That's a little little get together, right? Yeah. That's for tribe. You put that on in the background. You don't know. Tried as a vibe. Tried as a vibe. But that's more in the background. I never sat down. Now we're going to listen to a tribe's album. And that's the activity. So for me, that there's a different in terms of what I think is at least my favorites are the ones where you put that record on or that you put pop that tape in. You pop to CD and and that's the activity now. We're listening to this. Right. Right. Right. To me, that's the difference. So when we were talking about Prince and Michael, I asked you, who would you rather hang with? You dodged that question. Prince. Of course. Okay. I didn't dodge that. So Prince is a vibe. I mean, just Prince seems like a real cool dude. Every, you know, like everything. I'm definitely hanging with Prince. Yeah. I mean, I'm also hanging with Michael. I don't need to hang with Michael. No, I'm hanging with Michael. Yeah. At I'm hanging with Michael when we were at the Grammy party. Uh-huh. I'm kicking it. You know, we got all type of people hanging out hanging with Michael. I'm hanging with Prince on a more personal level. Right. Where we, you know, dinner, he's setting the vibe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get that. Yeah. Who hit the highest heights? Michael. Michael. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Just totally. I don't think they're comparable, but I don't know why, I mean, I know why people compare them, but they really are not. It's apples and oranges, really. Okay. Max. We got some great news for next week. Go ahead. I can't tell it. Oh, oh, I know what this is. Yeah. But next Wednesday, we're going to have our first guest. That's right. First guest. Got to be a special guest. This is a very special guest. I agree. It's a very special guest. You did bring this. Sports knowledge to the very special guest. Yes. It's not primarily known for sports knowledge, but brings it to the table. Just the coolest person. I don't know if there's a cooler person on the planet than this guest. I agree. It's easy to be a star or ease. Most when you see a star, it's like big personality. You know, that's the cut. The laid back charisma, like the cool charisma harder to pull off. Harder to pull off. It's also harder to be at that level and just treat everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Can get along with anybody. Don't even have to know you. And you like them where every goes all around the world. He knows he's going to see. They're going to love him. Yes. Yeah. But I don't want to give it up. Right. I want to actually we've said enough now. I bet you a lot of people could guess. No, they won't. Just that description. I would. The person, the guest is someone who if I heard that description, he'd be on a short list already five, six people. He'd be on a range. Okay. Well, let's see. All right. Listen, game over with Max Callerman and Rich Paul. It's Oscar weekend. Max. It is. If I still went to the movies, I'd be able to talk about it. But I like going to the movies. No one can't find people who want to go to the movies. Let's go. Dean will catch some flesh. Yeah. I go to movies. I told you, I don't mind going to movies. I like going to the movies. No, too.