COURAGEOUS CONVERSATIONS: Negotation Skills and Your Enneagram Type with Attia Qureshi

Hey folks and welcome to Typeology, the show on which we explore the mystery of the human personality and the great human adventure all through the lens of the Enneagram. My name is Anthony Skinner, your producer and co-host. So happy to have you all here today because we have one of our favorites back with this. I'm talking about Atea Kureshi. We're talking about her Enneagram type but we're moving. This is part two of a conversation with her. We actually had such a great conversation the first time and just felt like we didn't get to all the things we wanted to that were on the table. She's back with us today. We're talking about the Enneagram and her book, Never Settle Persuasion and Negotiation Skills to Get What You Want. She's a Negotiations expert. She is loaded for bearer people and I will tell a little short story when we get this podcast going but I want to say this which she drops on us at the very end. But she has a free PDF that she has made available for all of our people. It's called the Enneagram Edge, How Every Type Negotiates and that is some of what we're going through on today's podcast even how you negotiate within yourself and then how you negotiate with others. We're talking about that today and she's making that available on her website at atiacareci.com/typology. That's a TTIA QU-R-E-S-H-I will give you this again at the very end of the show but just wanted to give you a heads up we'll remind you at the end of the show to go get that PDF. A great conversation with a Tiacareci and without any further ado here's the host to our show, Ian Crone. Hey typology friends, welcome back to this is a very special week. A few weeks back we had our new friend atiacareci on the show. She's the author of the book Never Settle for Swasion and Negotiation Skills to get what you want. It was so good. It's like now we got to get her back and in fact in between Anthony and a TIA had some communication I want to tell the story Anthony. Yes so we had a great as you said conversation with our first episode with the TIA and when we ended that conversation I happened to be flying out that day to a meeting where I really needed some input and so I sent her a text that said you know laid out the scenario for or would you mind helping me out she said absolutely send me the details I did and she sent me this very precise six or seven point response via audio of how to walk into that negotiation and how to handle it and it changed the game for me. So I just want to say a big thanks a big shout out and definitely you'll get the book. All right yes wow look at this one yeah wow well a Tia welcome back thanks for having me and it's what I love to do I love to get people more so I'm happy to do it. Wonderful all right so last time we let things a little open right because there was you came in pretty pretty sure you were in eight Anthony and I mentioned that we thought it would be a good idea to just take a look at three because you not to say you were a three but you had enough three features that we were like maybe just worth you know checking it out and I think that's a great thing to do never type anybody but if you have a sense as a person who's from the any gram that you you think maybe it's to be helpful to this person you say it so I'm wondering where have you landed since then I've done a lot of self-reflection since that conversation which I found to be really helpful and insightful and I think what I landed is that I feel deeply connected to eight but at this time in my life I think three is just standing out quite a bit and it's a moment where I have something that I've worked on for seven years and kind of a pinnacle moment and that side of me has opened up and so talking to you has actually shown me that and helped me manage through a lot of the stress and anxiety that I've been facing along with the good parts of it so I want to thank you for helping me with that conversation yeah absolutely well it's people are fascinating and it's wonderful to be able to you know be part of the conversation they're having with the mystery of their own lives and that's that's a really you know wonderful wonderful privilege so we're gonna talk about negotiation today because obviously that's your thing that's your forte your expertise before we jump into that again define as you understand that what a negotiation actually is a negotiation is anytime we are trying to influence a situation and I think it's happening dozens of times per day it is happening with our spouse on childcare on meal prep on who's doing what chores it's happening at work on workload contracts managing a situation with our boss it's happening with our neighbors and our friends it's all the time because we're always interacting with people and working with them on something towards something and all of those are moments of influence and so I think negotiation is one of the highest return on investments you can make when it comes to skill development because it gives you more of what you need time energy money resources it opens all of that up so I love that this skill of negotiating works across all domains of our lives and I'm also wondering as you went through that list what about negotiating with ourselves oh that is I would say the most important negotiation because it's often the ones that we fail at we tend to quit before we get started because we face something internal that prevents us from negotiating there's a huge percentage of the population who has self identified is hating talking about money and they still also wish it wasn't taboo and there's a huge percentage of people who are afraid of harming the relationship in a negotiation or have fear because something will be taken away from them and so they don't even try they prevent themselves from asking or they are waiting for someone to offer it and the biggest part of negotiation that we need to do is get past those inner dilemmas and understand what those emotional concerns are that are driving us address those concerns and then be able to move forward and make an ask because it's amazing how many times people will say yes if we can get to the point of actually asking so interesting right like one author refers to this as the fool's choice right and the fool's choice is I can either speak my truth in this negotiation and blow up the relationship or I can suffer in silence and that's actually a terrible you know a way of looking at hard or tricky conversations right yes and that's what I've seen often is the case that we either see it as something to avoid or something that we have to conquer and we there's a middle path where through a negotiation with the proper skills we can build better relationships and we can build more value for ourselves and them and we can create a system for repeat interactions and it's actually amazing the way that can evolve into better relationships over time and more value for everyone but in movies and in TV we see it as sitting at a table and hammering it out and defeating the other party and that's the framework everyone has built up in their minds and then negotiation becomes something really scary and awful and to be avoided or to be treated like a threat yeah I agree 100% as somebody who does not have a long and successful history with the art of negotiation I'm pretty good at persuasion but negotiation is slightly nuanced in my mind a little bit of a difference between the two so let's talk about each any gram type and the process of negotiation and you know what does it look like for them yes let's do that let's dive in so let's talk about the internal negotiation first and one of the key elements of getting us started is understanding what is preventing us from negotiating and identifying those emotions and a lot of your work Ian revolves around this it's understanding those systems within us and when we could identify those emotions and we can label them and write them down and say them out loud rather than them at controlling us and dictating our actions in a situation because they often do we start having control in the situation and deciding how we show up and so there are certain tight. that have a tendency to do this better than others. So I would love to hear your perspective on this, but I would say that fours and fives tend to do this really well, because I think they do a lot of that inner work and have that self-awareness that they've built over time to understand what's going on internally. What do you think? I mean, as a four, I'd love to hear your perspective. Yeah. Well, I think it just depends on how much work they've done on themselves. Like, I think every type stinks at this if they haven't done any work, right? So if they're not very self-aware, I would say that for fours, it kind of depends on the kind of four. And that fours, fives, and nines tend to be withdrawing types. And three, sevens, and eights are more what we call in the assertive stance. And one, two, and six are in the compliance stance. So you have three sevens and eights typically in a negotiation, let's say, would be typically more assertive. And then you'd have fours, fives, and nines, maybe slightly withdrawing types. And then one, two, six are more like come along side types. But again, these are kind of that collection of three triads is not perfect. It's just describing what types might, they're kind of neutral position where they can camp out. So you think fours and fives are good at what now again? Assessing their internal emotional state and being able to tap into what's going on more easily than some of the other types, identifying the emotions, labeling them, being able to sit with them. Yeah, I think fours for sure, fives are so cerebral and analytical. And kind of they're the number that I think has the maybe, maybe they could analyze what's going on inside them. I'm not sure it would be at the level of emotion. I think you know, some sixes could be good at it if they've done a lot of work and they're not being flooded by too many opinions and voices in their head. But again, I think, I think every type on the any gram in a healthy space could do these things well. And some would have to burn more calories to get there. So I would agree that fours would not have to burn a ton of calories like this. Yeah. And I think that's where we all can do these skills. It just might be like you're saying a bit easier for some than others. Yeah. Yeah. And I think two to do a good, I think two's could do a good job with it. Yeah. They're so attuned to other people's feelings, much of the time. But if they've done some work, they're able to be in touch with what's going on inside. You know, like, and when they do get in touch, they're they get real good at it. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I think that's a great I think that's a great perspective to have. And on the flip side, there might be some types that have a little bit of a harder time accessing. And it might take more depth and work to tap into those emotions, why they're cropping up and help address and sit with those emotions. So we don't get ruled by them. I mean, as someone who identified as an eight for a long time, I would say that was part of my issue is actually sitting down and identifying the emotions that were coming up for me. And rather than thinking of it as something I had to conquer and fight out that it wasn't that I didn't have to go into fight or flight mode where I was going to have to fight it out. But rather think about what feelings were driving me underneath that. And to go in with a more generous mindset. Yes. So we've done a little work helping people think about difficult conversations, which are different than negotiations, though there's overlap, obviously. And one of the things we teach is this idea that we were taught, I was taught in graduate school, that people see an event or have an experience. Then that experience brings up an emotion and that emotion that drives an action. Right. It's not thinking that drives action as much as it is emotion. Right. Yes. And now there's a step that's missing in there. And that is you have an experience. And within a nanosecond of it, you tell yourself a story about what you just experienced. Yeah. Let's say somebody cuts you off in traffic. You don't just instantly have a feeling. You instantly have a story, which is that jackass doesn't care about other people. He's probably drunk. I mean, you know, whatever. And and and then that actually arouses a feeling that leads to an action. And what I hear you saying is it's really good to stop and ask yourself, what's the story I'm telling myself that's producing this feeling about a negotiation or a difficult conversation. Exactly. And I love that you talk about motion so heavily because studies have found that it could drive emotions can drive 90 to 95% of our unconscious decision making. So it's massive. But we don't necessarily think about it or we don't want to think about it. Especially in a professional environment where people are like, well, no, you don't bring your emotions to the workplace. And it's like, no, well, that's ridiculous because they are there. So we might as well address them. And you're right that we need to understand that story. And what's driving that emotion so that we can and I like to give an exercise saying, what is the best moderate and worst outcome? Because that's usually what's in our head. We're thinking through in that story the worst outcome. The worst story. Yeah, that's the story. Yes. There's the story. Exactly. But and then actually think about it and see how bad is it? And sit with how bad that feels because then we can start inoculating ourselves to that feeling. And we can be less afraid of that feeling. And usually what ends up happening anyway is the best or moderate case scenario. It almost never ends up being the worst case scenario. But let's sit with that story, the worst case part of it, inoculate ourselves to the feeling of that and then be able to move forward. Great. Good. Great. Yeah. Now one piece that I think this is what I was thinking of with the analytical sides of the five that we also need to do that most people shockingly forget to is deeply think about what we want out of the negotiation and have a goal. Right. When we have those feelings come up and we think it's something to avoid or fight and we work ourselves up to a point where we finally address it, we forget what it is we actually need. And we think about it positionally. I have to have this. That's my position. I'm rooted in that. I am anchored there and that it's all or nothing. And that gives that other person the only opportunity they have is to say yes or no. That's not a negotiation. And so we need to take a step back and think through what is it I actually care about in this situation. What is my goal out of the conversation? And that makes it a productive conversation as opposed to an ultimate. You know, it's so funny because there's so many parallels here. When I'm teaching this stuff in a corporation, right? Not specifically your book, but you know about conversations. I'm always like you need to write down in the fewest number of words possible exactly what it is you want. Yeah. You just have to write it down. And then because if you don't, a negotiation can go off in a lot of directions. And you have to keep bringing it back and asking yourself mentally in the conversation while it's happening. What is it I want? Right? Because if you lose sight of that, the other person will take the conversation in maybe in another direction, not purposely necessarily, but that doesn't have anything to do with what you want. Exactly. Exactly. It's your north star in the conversation. And it helps you stay centered. It helps you stay focused. That's exactly right. So on this one, tell me about any Graham types. Yeah. So if we're thinking about the ones that we were talking about, how forest can do, you know, burn less calories, trying, you know, tapping into the emotions and unders. But then I was thinking fives for really analyzing their interests and having a goal. And so that's where I was coming from with that more data driven side that they might have a good job sitting back and creating that list. Yeah. And then maybe not executing on it. Right. Like in other words, they can. That's the next. That's the thing. They can analyze for weeks. We research people's pay scales, research, you know, in multi-crossed countries, you know, I think I think ones would have a good time with this that would have a fairly easy time. time, they're analytical, they're detail oriented, they come pretty clear about what they want. They also have a sense of what's right to want. Toes I think could have a hard time with this because they're so attuned to what others want and need and not very much to what they want and they actually have a lot of heart. What they want need always seems rather vague and blurry to them, so that might take a little bit more energy. What do you think about threes? Threes are a tricky one, the achiever. That's the other one that I'm going back and forth with right now. I think that threes would probably, from my experience, be able to do this pretty well on understanding what it is that they're going for because that is a little bit of their orientation and mentality. I would say burning less calories for threes, potentially burning a lot of calories for nines, the peacemakers. Yes, for sure. Nines and sixes would have trouble with decision-making, typically when they're not in good space. Also asserting themselves and believing that their presence matters for nines, it's like I matter, and therefore I am worthy of asking for what I need and want. That goes back to the emotion around it and the story they're telling themselves and so it's also intertwined where our emotions are completely intertwined with our interests and our goal and our ability to take the action and actually take the next step in the negotiation because that's where we go next, right? We built this foundation for ourselves, but what do we do next? We have to take that action. So, with forers, I think what's tricky here, particularly for social forers, is shame is such a strong emotion and this feeling of unworthiness, I'm an outsider that doesn't keep along and how do I, so a sense that maybe my value or my distorted understanding of my value gets in the way of my asking, I'm almost ashamed to ask for what I want. Yeah, and I think that is so impactful to understand and label because then you can start addressing that and I really like the skill and it's a really small exercise but you write it down and then you say it out loud and the more you say it out loud over and over again, the less impact it has on you. That's what studies have shown that when we do usual motion labels and we write it down and we say it out loud, the impact and the severity can decrease. So, give me an example of a statement. Give me a statement. So, can I just kind of make a suggestion? Yes, please. I think you were going there but it's like, as for forers specifically, I think we try to weigh something within ourselves before we try to weigh something at the table, right? So, related to that shame, yeah, that's the question now would be curious to know what I should be saying to myself, yeah. I have a couple of variations, so one could be, I am unworthy of this ask, I am unworthy. I am unworthy, I am unworthy, I am unworthy. And the other one is, I feel ashamed to ask. I feel ashamed to ask, I feel ashamed to ask, I feel burdened some in making a request. And those are the things that you can just say out loud and the more you say out loud, you realize you're forced to contend with the fact that is this true, is this really true. And I like that framing, because the first time you ask is this true, your inclination might be like, yes, of course, that's what I'm saying it. And then you ask again, is this really true? And the second time we usually look at it and are like, you know what, that's not, that doesn't sound right. Yeah, there's, I think I know where you're going with that schema, because maybe the next question would be, how would my life be different if I didn't believe that was true? Or how would this negotiation be better if I didn't believe that was true? And then to mentally reverse what that would be like, yeah, exactly, exactly. And that's the positive reframe. So once you deal with the worst case scenario, write the worst case emotions that come up, what are those that you can feed yourself? And what you're doing is building resilience through that feed, that process, you're diminishing the negative and then you're providing yourself with the positive of, I am worthy. I am valued. I am trusted. I am warranted this and you're feeding yourself those positives and what you're doing. When you do that, I would recommend is change your body language because I was the, there's this idea around resilience and what we're doing is building resilience on making an ask and feeling comfortable making that ask. And not only saying the words out loud, the positive ones, but also having positive body language, shoulders broad, we're not hunched, we're not crossed, we're not, you know, protecting ourselves, we're sitting up straight, we're making eye contact, we're taking deep breaths. And that adds to the resilience along with the positive wording. Hmm. Yeah. I was reminded this past week. I was at a speaking date in Austin, Texas, speaking to 150 wonderful women doctors. And but at one point in it, I was a little anxious. It was at the very beginning of the day, which is kind of unusual, but I've had a lot of my mind in the last few weeks. And so that whole thing on breathing is so important because under stress, our breathing tends to run shallow, and then the nervous system starts to get the message that it's under threat. And if you breathe properly and maybe we should do a whole show on breath work, Anthony, you can actually convince your nervous system that it's safe, that it's calm. Yes. Yes. And if I can add to that, my favorite style is to breathe in, let's say you breathe in for three, you hold for three, and then you breathe out for six. So it's not box breathing. You're actually breathing out more slowly than you're breathing in or holding because your body, when it's under attack, cannot physically breathe out more slowly. So what you're doing is you're telling your parasympathetic nervous system that you are not under attack by breathing out more slowly. And so that's a little trick that I really like when it comes to breathing. Me too, I think that's fantastic, and actually I do that at the beginning of speaking dates with the group, you know, not just because they feel under threat, but it's more like to become grounded and more present to the coming experience. Hey friends, the Anya Graham is a remarkably powerful tool for improving relationships. Whether it's in your personal life or your professional life, understanding the people around you is critical to building better relationships. The Anya Graham provides a framework for understanding different perspectives and communication styles. Imagine knowing why your colleague reacts defensively in meetings or why your partner needs space when they're stressed. Understanding these dynamics helps you navigate both your inner world and your relationships with more empathy, patience, and compassion. It's like having a cheat sheet for human behavior. Don't know your type? Well, find out today with my new typology institute Anya Graham assessment at typologyinstitute.com/assessment and be sure to enter the discount code typology podcast on the checkout page to take 10% off your assessment. Go to typologyinstitute.com/assessment. So all right, moving on. Let's talk about files just briefly because you already said some things about them. I think they'd be really good at figuring out what their negotiation thing was. They would have to, where they may have trouble, is getting it into as few words as possible. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's right. I think they would be really good at analyzing and coming up with that list and taking the time to think through what do I deeply care about and then ranking it. They would be really good at that too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to get to get an Anya Graham 5 just to write down, I want a 20% raise and leave there. Yes. That goes back to your idea of saying it in as few words as possible. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Make me get down to give me 20%. Yeah. One word in a digit. Exactly. But then you're in the positional realm, right? All of a sudden, you're stuck in a position. And so we actually do want to let them broaden it and think they're like, I actually need 20% more value because value can be driven in a lot of different ways than just a salary dollar. But what if they really need the money? Well, there are other ways to get money that come from different buckets. So let's talk about that. Talk about that. I mean, there's salary, but then there are bonuses. And bonuses often come from a different budget line. There is equity coming from a different budget line, different child care costs, travel costs, all of those monetary items come from often different budget lines. And so when your department might have a budget limit, there are, this is where we go into their interests and having empathy and an understanding for what their needs are. If we can understand what their needs and their constraints are, there are often times to figure out, are there other ways to actually add tangible value here? And when it comes to dollars, there are. I love that, but the problem is I'm self-employed, so now I'm going to have to have a hard conversation myself about asking for more travel money. Yeah. And for one K benefits and money toward an HSA, and it goes on and on, lots of different ways to get money. Oh, I like that. I like that a lot, right? Because we do get stuck positionally. I need 20% more cash, right? Yeah. Got it. Yeah. Wonderful. All right. I think that, again, we've talked about sixes. Sixes, on this particular step in the construction of the conversation, that they are, you know, they have so many voices in their head. And sixes, when they're not doing great, are people that really don't trust their own inner compass. And this is why they often go out building sort of like taking polls from other people. What do you think I should do? Which only adds to the confusion because now they've added ten more voices, right? Yeah. How do you help somebody that is confused? Because, you know, or uncertain or is not very good at, you know, discerning and making a decision because they don't trust themselves enough. And really good at the worst case scenario. Oh, boy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that goes back to first doing that self-work on building that trust because I think that without it, how are you going to negotiate successfully? Right? You're going to go source a bunch of information from a lot of different people, which will just like you said, add to that whole list, laundry list in the back of their head. And they don't know where to go from there. And I think it has to be that self-work, that step back and that internal work on what am I feeling? Why am I feeling that? Address the worst case scenario and push yourself toward the best case scenario. And if you can get in that resilient mindset and ground yourself, I think the sixes can do the work. It might burn calories for them, but if they go back to that step first, they can absolutely do it. Mm-hmm. Now, here's what I would add for, I think potentially sixes and others like that might still feel really apprehensive or anxious is another component. We haven't touched upon is relationship building and how if we establish positive relationships over time, it makes other people much more likely to be amenable and open to an ask, because we can almost always help someone. It depends on if we want to or not. So why not, in any situation that you're entering, start a cycle of reciprocity, offer something small without an expectation of anything in return. Because that just starts building goodwill and it has been proven to be hardwired within us that we want to return a favor, a gift, a gesture. And you're starting this beautiful cycle of improving a relationship, even if it's in a bad state, it can almost always be improved. And what you're doing is setting up a framework that in a month, six months a year, two years, if you do have an ask, all of a sudden you have a really good foundation for that ask and back in help. A lot of different types feel comfortable, but it can also be really hard for some types that already care too much about the relationship. So it's a double-edged sword a little bit. Yeah. I think the key there is sincerity, if you know, I can usually tell if I'm being buttered up. So we're not talking about buttering up here, right? Yeah, it's really about, there has to be a real chorus sincerity to the relationship for this to work. Otherwise people feel like, oh, now I know why you were so nice to me. Exactly. You cannot be quid pro quo. It can't be I buy you lunch and then make an ask tomorrow. It has to be done. And this is where the idea, people ask me, what's the difference between influence and manipulation? And I think it's your intention. Are you intending to improve the relationship so that you have a better relationship? Yes. Maybe one day in the future you'll have an ask, but really fundamentally you're trying to improve the relationship to create more value. That's different than if you're trying to get someone from get something from someone without any benefit to them or having harm toward them. I think that's more manipulation, influence if they found out what you were doing. Would they care? Would they be bothered that you're just trying to improve the relationship? So you're right. It is sincerity. It has to be done without an expectation of anything and return because we can always tell when it's quid pro quo. Yeah. So I think seven and eights could do pretty well with this. Yes. Sevens are very quick-witted, articulate oftentimes under, well, under pressure. They can be quite articulate. They are very creative. So they're the type that would really do well thinking about creative alternatives. This is, of course, in money negotiations, but just in anything, right? They're just so good at saying, oh, buying, okay, so I'll take that car without what I wanted. But what would really be helpful to me is if you threw in the charger for the garage, you know what I mean, or just coming up with interesting ways of creating a win-win situation. Oh, my gosh. I love that you're bringing that up because that's what we call option generation. And I'm married to a seven. And my sister is a seven and my best friend's a seven. So I'm surrounded by all these amazing sevens. And I see that all the time where they are very good at being generative. That's what we call it in a negotiation. You're able to generate a lot of creative options. And you don't necessarily get to the evaluative mode because a lot of us want to evaluate options immediately. Sevens are really good at just creating, creating, creating, expanding the pie of the negotiation and finding opportunities for value. Love it. AIDS could get into trouble as well, right? Because AIDS are black and white thinkers often. And you know, it's either my way or the highway if they get under pressure. It could become a game of winning versus win-winning. And they can oftentimes over asserts to the point that the other person gets entrenched in their position. Yeah. And having the self-awareness of that can really help AIDS prevent themselves from digging in. And if you know that you're negotiating within eight, this is a great thing to know because they might just want to feel like it was their idea that they are the winner, that they are the ones who are kind of having the status of putting the deal together. And so if you let them be part of the option creation and pick the one that feels best to them even though you're guiding the process, you will probably get a lot of tangible value out of that because they are having that emotional need met of being the winner or being the one that's driving the outcome. Yes. So, in Nines we mentioned, I think the big problem for Nines in negotiations is they just hate conflict so much, they hate risking disconnection from another person. Yes. And they also will have to work on the emotion and the thought process of my presence doesn't really matter or my value doesn't really matter. Or it's just they have to prove, I always say this about Nines, we have this thing called in psychology, there's a test we use to sort of suss out pathology and it has scales in it. And so the scales are like paranoia, narcissism, histrionic, all these different personality disorders. And you can tell when what people watch for is are there any elevation in the scales. And there's normal elevations and things like that that aren't necessarily an indication of pathology but you're just sort of watching it. When I took that test in graduate school because in the first two weeks they want to figure out if there's any crazies that they accepted and they want to get rid of, the I scored the only scale that I was off on was paranoia. And I remember the guy meeting with me to say you scored too low and I went really, yes, which means that I trust too much like my my default position is just to trust people too quickly. Wow. That's amazing. Right? So. - I oftentimes say about nuns that they score too low on narcissism. So in other words, they don't actually think highly enough about themselves, right? They actually need to be, I always tell nuns, you know, you need to be a little more narcissistic. And they look at me like, "I'm crazy." And I'm like, "Oh no, no, no, you need trust me. "You do not think highly enough of yourself." - Right. - Well, this is so interesting because I have parents who are nines and twos. And what I see, they are very good at is understanding the other person's side. What their interests might be, having empathy for what's going on from their perspective. But they have a very hard time bringing in their own needs and especially being able to say no, if a deal doesn't meet their needs. Because they may not feel worthy, they may not feel like they deserve it, they don't want to harm the relationship and they capitulate. And so those are two extremes on either side where really good, low calorie burn on understanding the perspective, but high calorie burn on being able to have boundaries and say no to a deal that's not good. Because we never want a bad deal. I don't want anyone to take a bad deal. No deal is better than a bad deal. - Hmm, right. So this whole thing about the ability to say no, I have run into this, particularly when I was a younger guy, and it's almost always around buying a house. And I have bought a lot of houses. - Yeah. - I have bought a lot of houses. And if I really, really, really want a house, right? - Yeah. - But I know that I have set, let's just make up a number here, like, let's just say I'm just making up a number. Let's say the cost of the house is 500,000. And, but I only have 490. And I've heard people say to me, if your number in your head is 490, you cannot go above it. - Yeah. - Right? What do you think of that advice? And then how do you say no and not want to like just weep in the car? - Oh gosh. Well, you might end up weeping in the car. So I don't know if I can prevent that. But what I would say is this goes back to understanding our own interests and what can be really helpful is quantifying those interests. This actually is a tendency with house buying in general. Where we go and look at a house and of course our realtor takes us to other houses that are slightly above our budget. - Yeah. - And it has a great yard and it's at the end of a road and there's a school nearby. And all of a sudden we're spending $100,000 more but we didn't value those items. And do those items each really add up to $33,500. I don't think so. But we don't take a moment to sit back and ask how much value are in these items. So I think it is really helpful. We call that our, like the idea of what is the price we're willing to go to. But there's also another element of that call that we talk about which is the transactional cost of continuing to pursue alternatives. So here's where your calculation gets a little bit messy. Let's say you have $490,000 but you're renting a house until you find a house. What's the cost of waiting until you find another house? Maybe it's another three months and you're looking at at least $10,000 in additional costs. All of a sudden that's what we call your reservation price. Maybe it is okay to go up to $500,000 because it's gonna cost you a certain amount to continue to keep going. So having an idea of that but also understanding what your transactional cost of continuing on the road is, they're both equally important, but it is true that once you do determine that cost, if you let yourself go outside of that, they can push you pretty far. So you yourself have to be firm in what you're willing to do and be realistic about it. If your number is $500,000, sure, go for it. But if it's not, then you need to, when you go back into the car, you need to have reframe and think about why is it not? Let me go back to my calculations and understanding of my interests and why it's that number. - Love that. Wow, Teev, what a good converse. I'm putting you on speed dial. (laughing) - I think Anthony already has me on speed dial. So you can add me to. - Sure, sure. - All right, I am gonna put you on speed dial because I'm sure I'll have some important negotiations on the horizon and I'm gonna need some help because it's actually not my forte. - My behalf. - And I've managed to get to where I am in life without too much damage, but in this regard. But I could have used you at many, many different places in my life. Everybody, again, we're speaking with Atea Kureshi. She is in any gram Ate. We're just gonna run with that. But acting like a three in this season of her life, her book is never settled persuasion and negotiation skills to get what you want. Wow, it is clear that you have such a depth of knowledge around this topic. This is not just a sort of a surface level familiarity with the art of persuasion and negotiation. I appreciate people who are thorough and deepen their knowledge of different things. So thanks for being on. - Thank you. And I've actually created a special landing page just for your listeners. - What? - And I can't catch that comment. - Wait. - We love it. - Where I go into all of this detail for each type. So I know we kind of went all over the map and I've structured it and laid it out. So they're, you know, what ones need to practice and where they're strong and areas for improvement, skills and exercises that they could do and they go through the whole spectrum. So it's all there for. - Give them the address again. Give them the domain address. - It's my name, atiyakoreshi.com/typology. - I love it. Wow. Thank you for that kind act of service. - Yeah, thank you. - My pleasure. - Anthony, I love you, buddy. - Love you, brother. Thanks, Atiyah. - Thank you. - Let's sit down and negotiate our friendship, okay? (laughing) - I'm not gonna say for that one. - Yeah. Imagine if she's getting calls from both of us at the same time. - Oh, that sounds like you need a therapist, not a negotiation expert, let's see. - All right, okay, well, we can talk about that. Hey everybody, we wish you all the best and may you have love, may you have joy, may you have peace, may you have healing and may you have rest. Until next time, bye-bye. (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]