Counterstrain Applications and Triumphs in Pediatric Care with Dr. Lory Yeh

Welcome to the CounterStrain Movement, a podcast where we talk about a little-known physical medicine and manual therapy technique that is widely revolutionizing how people approach recovery from injury, illness, disease and trauma. It's called "facial counterstrain." I'm your season one host, TheoryMensch, and together we'll explore where a counterstrain comes from, how it works, the many conditions it can treat and whether it can help you. Thank you for tuning in today, let's dive in. Good morning, good morning, hi, Laurie, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you for having me. Will you start by introducing yourself to our listeners? Yeah, I'm Laurie A, and I am an active punctureist and physical therapist in the Los Angeles County area, and I've been practicing counterstrain for a little over 10 years now. Great, let's dive in, how did counterstrain come into your sphere, how were you introduced to it? Yeah, I was actually introduced to counterstrain early on, I was pretty lucky, probably about 20 years ago before deciding to go to graduate school and choosing a career path. So I was an aide at a clinic and there was a traveling therapist who had just learned string, counterstrain, which is the original counterstrain developed by Dr. Jones. And she was working on a patient who had whiplash from a car accident. And so she was just, you know, winsing with pain with every direction she was turning. And conventionally with physical therapy, they were doing massage, they were doing exercise, stretches, ice, heat, ultrasound, you know, the regular, but this therapist, she wasn't doing any of that. And so I got curious and watched her treatment. So she had her book open and she would, you know, touch a tender point, position the head and then very slight tilt and then hold it for 90 seconds. And then she'll take her out of that position and find another tender point and then tilt the head in a certain way and then hold it for another 90 seconds was really weird, right? Never seeing anything like that. And so that would go on for about 30 minutes. And after that, the patient sat up and she, like, she was a little dazed and she was looking around and was not winsing in pain. So who's like, all right, what is this craziness? I'm going to have to learn this. So yes, so I went to physical therapy school because I needed a license to touch. And then after physical therapy school, I had also seen the miracles of acupuncture. So I went straight into acupuncture school after that. And then I started my counter-string journey. So was, was witnessing that counter-string treatment? Is that what drove you to, was that the primary driver to physical therapy school? It was. Yeah. That's so cool. It's so cool to experience it so early on. Yeah. How do you incorporate counter-string and acupuncture in your practice now? Yeah. So it's pretty standard combination of counter-string first and then acupuncture for most of my patients. And my patient population is quite varied at the moment. And I see babies to elderly and then with varying diagnosis, post-operative, total knee or sports injuries, chronic pain, neurological cases, like stroke and MS, concussions, even insomnia, L or downloads, autoimmune issues, gynecological issues, anyways, I'm never bored. Yeah. That's such a diversity of types of cases. What is the population that you find or maybe like the condition subsection that you find really rewarding to work with? It's pretty rewarding to work with all populations. I would say majority adults, but it's really rewarding working with kids because of such a huge change in their reactions. And it's actually kind of a funny story because when, in my last year of physical therapy school, we get to choose what clinical rotations we want to do so we know which direction of physical therapy we want to go in, so like working on a hospital or the outpatient or orthopedic clinic or sports. And I thought I wanted to do pediatrics. So I did a 16-week rotation at a pediatric outpatient clinic, so we saw kids at the home, we saw kids at the school, and in the clinic. And then I also did a two-week rotation at Children's Hospital, Los Angeles. And so after those two rotations, I was quite depressed because it was really sad to see these kids struggling and I didn't feel like I was making much of a difference. So I said, yeah, I'm not working with kids, so I ended up going into outpatient orthopedics. And after all finishing all my school and starting counterstrain, I started to see some kids in my clinics because these parents would ask me if I saw kids. I'm like, sure, we'll give it a try. And so now my favorite population is actually pediatrics because counterstrain has been a game changer for me in that field. And they are the cutest patients and their bodies are so moldable, they're very responsive to treatments. And it's like growing a young plant, you can kind of put a stick up or nudge it a little bit and then they'll grow a little straighter, right? So we can have that impact on their growing bodies. In such a contrast to right, like if treating kids and not being able to help them recover to the degree that you really want to, and then now having maybe a new means of creating lasting improvements with them, I can see why one would not be magnetic in the other would. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Yeah, you know, you've seen, like counterstrain is super gentle, you know, you don't use any medications, it's not very invasive, so it's super gentle on babies. And you know, we've all seen the baby who has colic and is crying all the time, where you've seen the kid toddler with developmental delays, and it's pretty special to be able to see these kids be able to smile and laugh, you know, after we've treated them. So do you have some cases you could share with us or an after? Yeah, I have a few cases, I'll start with the simple one. So I saw a newborn who had swelling on the top of her head, and it was just like a pocket of fluid, and this is called, it's a hard word to say, it's called capet sexidenium. And it's a very benign condition. So I saw her at two weeks old, and I've seen the mom and the dad and the older sister, and so the mother asked if I can do something about this swelling on the top of the head, you know, they went to see the pediatrician, pediatrician said, ah, this is normal, you know, we'll go in within a few days, but you know, two weeks after the baby was born, they was still there, and it hadn't gone down any. So I was like, okay, yeah, let's take a look. So when she came in, she thankfully was sleeping, and she was nicely swaddled, and she was able to lay on the table. And so I just kind of felt around to see where the restrictions were. And so I opened up some of the drainage pathways in the neck and the upper chest area. And she just had like this tightness at the top of her head, and I worked on the superficial fascia of her scalp. And that took probably about 15 or 20 minutes, because the first time, you know, I'm asking questions of the mother, and with kids, I don't normally see them for more than 30 minutes, because if they're older, you know, running around, they don't have the ability to sit still for very long. So anyway, so after just seeing her for 15, 20 minutes, they went home, and the next time they came back, it was pretty much gone. Yeah, so that was all she needed was a little nudge to release some of that fascial restriction, and then her little body was able to absorb the rest of that fluid. And what was the timeframe between when you treated her and then they came back? Within the week. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's fast. Yeah. Yeah, I imagine that traveling through a birth canal or even birth by a cesarean is like a pretty intense physical experience for such a little human. Yeah. And for the last few weeks, they were faced down, and their head is in that canal. So, you know, if they could be stuck in, that could create some restriction on the top of the head. Oh, yeah. Just impact or pressure. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. And so, with the pressure of the delivery, too, she said she delivered her really quickly. So that impact probably caused all that fluid accumulation and had nowhere to go. So it just became a pocket on the top of the head. And was the baby displaying signs of discomfort or was it more, it was just something visual that. Yeah. It was just visual. You know, it's just, didn't look natural. Yeah, so, but yeah, the baby is fine, no crying, nothing. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, if you can visually see that function isn't, or that something's going on, whether the person is experiencing symptoms now or discomfort now or not, it's like, yeah, I love that. Let's ensure that function in drainage and circulation is all healthy and normalized. Because, again, we had our chair on the chair of our board. And when he was being born, the doctor broke his clavicle because it was a difficult delivery and in, you know, decades later. And it healed, right? His clavicle healed. But decades later, there are so many things, there's like this whole constellation of concerns that presented in different systems that are most of which traced back to that injury during birth. And yeah, and of course, at the time, it was, it was deemed medically necessary. And, but just, we don't know, right? Like how that, that, that might stack or might influence things. And so. Yeah. Yeah. Babies will all come out perfect. So I believe they all need treatment, you know, as they're growing. And it could really impact their future. Yeah. You mentioned, um, Collick at one point, have you worked with any, um, any, any, Collick patients? Yes. Um, so I had this little kid, oh, she, baby, really? He basically had a belly full of poop and wasn't getting out. Yeah. Um, so I was seeing his grandmother for treatment. And you know, we just chat about her daily life and she was talking and telling me how happy she was for her first grandchild. And then several months later, she asked me, do you see babies, I was like, sure, what's going on? Right. So she and her and the baby's mom, they came in and he was five months old at the time. And he was not pooping regularly. And, um, the mother said that when he was born, he didn't have a bowel movement for nine days. And so they had a suppository, um, to help him evacuate. And then when I saw him, he was at best pooping every other day. And so he was, you know, screaming all the time and he didn't like to lie down. He didn't like tummy time. So it was delaying his development as well because, you know, he couldn't be on his tummy. He couldn't roll over. Um, so when he came in, he was upset about something. He was crying and the mom was holding him, trying to soothe him, um, and so I just had the mom continue to hold him. So he feel safe because, you know, I'm the stranger there. Um, so just looking at him, I saw that he had a really big, like, distended belly. Yeah. And just didn't look comfortable, right? So as the mom was holding him, I worked on his visceral fascia of the intestines and, um, that's all we had time for that day. So when they went home, um, on the car ride home, he had explosive diarrhea. I can't think that it goes out of the diaper and up his back and, yeah, better health than it. Yeah. Um, and the second session, I saw him, it wasn't about two weeks later. So the mom said that he had one day had two, um, bowel movements in one day, um, but the rest of the time, he still had about, you know, poop every other week, every other day. So he wasn't quite regular yet. Um, so I worked on him some more and this time we had, he, it was actually a little bit more pleasant. He wasn't screaming, you know, he's seen my face before, but he still needed his mom to hold him. He wasn't, you know, quite comfortable with me alone. So I worked on more of his other systems, worked on his nervous system, worked on the arterial system to the gut, um, the biggest nerve, like lateral ganglia and, um, after that, when the mother came back, they said that he was grouping more regularly. So he was going at least once a day and he no longer had loud screaming cries. He was able to progress on to tummy time without issues. So the rest of his development was pretty much normal. And, um, I think I saw him maybe like five times total, but you know, after like the second or third time, he was starting to be more regular. So that's, yeah. And now he's six years old and doing just fine. Man, I, it is such a testament to how much everything is connected like I'm thinking I'm somebody who has like inflammatory GI stuff. That's diverticulated. So excruciating when it happens. And I'm just imagining being five months old, not having the verbal capacity, like the only language you have is crying. And then being put on your tummy, we're in all this pain. Of course, parents are just doing the best they can, trying to support their development. And then also, I mean, now I'm sort of projecting, but I'm like imagining how not like welcoming or safe the world would feel to be in discomfort or pain all the time. Like it's one thing when you're an adult and you might be able to, you know, bring your awareness to something and have a conversation with yourself about it, but to be so young and for the world to be such a painful and comfortable place to physically exist in. And then, yeah, just, I don't know what that would, what kind of impact that would have long-term health or long-term sense of safety, felt safety, somatic safety, and then getting to work with a provider like you who then opens up a very, very different, felt, lived experience at that young of an age. Yeah. Life-changing. Yeah. It's really interesting because this young, this, the fine with the old boy with the poop problem, his dad also has had digestive issues. So, you know, I'm sure there's some, some epigenetic, genetic type of thing going on there. But, yeah, sometimes I wonder, you know, what his future would be like. And right now at six years old, he's fine, so hopefully, you know, we were able to catch it early and so it didn't have to, he didn't have to be like his dad when he grew up, you know, with digestive issues. Yeah. Yeah, because like lifelong stress on those, on those, on that, that system of tissues, at some point, right, I think that's what happened, has happened with me at some point, the tissues can't, like they just can't bear beyond the load they carried for so long chronically. And so even just starting from, right, like a functional, healthy, well, like a intestinal tissue with good circulation, good oxygen, all that stuff, but at the very least, it probably extends the life of the resiliency of it, even if there is something genetic. Yeah. Yeah. That's what my imagination. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like to think of the body as an orchestra, so like each, each muscle, each nerve, each blood vessel is an instrument that's playing in harmony. But sometimes, you know, as with an injury or illness or birth trauma, one of these instruments go out of tune, or it's playing a wrong song, and then it just throws off the entire performance, right? Yeah. So in children, because they only have, they don't have 50 years of layer dysfunctions as we see in some adults, so we don't have to tune all 50 instruments, we just have to tune in a few, and then the body's back to playing harmoniously. The Counter-Strain Movement is produced by The Bridge Back Project, a 501-C3 organization on a mission to bring a facial counter-strain to the world to address the impact of trauma, promote healing, and restore hope. This educational podcast is made possible by the generous support of donors, former program participants, and listeners like you. Please consider making a donation today to support our life-changing programs. Learn more about the impact of our work and how you can help on our website at www.bridgeback.org. Yeah, I was going to ask about what are some of the differences you see as far as the way that younger people versus older people respond to counter-strain, both as patients, as well as what are some of the differences of the ways that you work with those different age groups? Yeah, so in Counter-Strain, we have a tender point, and then we find that tender point, and then we treat it out. However, with kids, I don't poke on that tender point, or else they will hate me, and never want to come back, so there's a way to feel the tender point without actually poking it, so that it's super gentle, and they know there's comfort there already, and the treatment in Counter-Strain is indirect, meaning we go in the direction of ease, rather than pushing out a barrier, so there's no discomfort with that treatment either, so it's super gentle for both kids and for adults. But I think with adults, they like that feedback of, "Oh, ouch," and then you treat it and you're like, "Oh, it's not there anymore," right? Well, I mean, I think a number of providers have said this where they'll treat somebody, and they'll be, they won't be, like some people want, like you just said, it's like you poke it, so that they can feel the before and after, because it is so gentle that people go, "This seems too good to be true," and that they've had people, "Well, playfully, you moved your hand." Yep, yep. You're touching somewhere else, it's like, "No, watch me, I'm not going to move my hand." They have to kind of prove it to someone because it is so gentle, because it kind of, because we are used to right deep tissue massage that really pushes into those places that are sore, and like you mentioned, Counter-Strain, does it opposite, go, yeah, moves in the direction of ease with tissue tension. Yeah, with, with kids, their free-pronto cortex is not developed, so they're not, you know, fighting their instincts, they know what you're doing. That's so funny. And then, I think you mentioned this earlier, but you said that their reaction is maybe less guarded as well. Yeah, so if something works, if they're in one instant in pain and the next instant, not in pain, they know exactly what you did. Like, they just, they'll stop crying, they'll stare at you, you know, they'll actually smile. And, yeah, that's what makes it really rewarding with kids, as they, they go with their gut, so just speak. They're an open buck. Yeah, an open buck. Yeah, kids, we don't need as many treatments, you know, as, because they don't have so much layer dysfunction, so some, with easy cases like the first two I talked about, just a few treatments is just fine, and then they're, you know, on their merry way until something else happens, and then I'll see them again. But there are other cases that are more uncommon, or more complicated, that we need to follow them through their development. And I was going to say, do you, are you, do you feel comfortable sharing any of those maybe more complex cases or cases that were the symptom presented one way, and then the cause maybe looked, wasn't, isn't necessarily an obvious connection. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so there it, there was a, there's a girl I saw, and she had a very rare, genetic disease called 4p duplication mosaic, and these kids, they normally have abnormalities like microcephaly, which is a small head, which can lead to seizures. They have abnormal, um, bony development, which can lead to like pallet morphology issues causing feeding problems, speech delay, um, their face can be a little bit off, so their eyes might not be aligned right, and their nose might not be quite aligned, which can cause breathing issues. And then their joints can get contracted, kind of get stuck in a position and really stiff. So in the past, some of these cases, only a few has been reported, and these kids didn't walk until they were like four or five or six years old, and they needed, you know, braces and mobility aids. Um, so I started seeing this girl girl at three months old. At that time, usually kids will start to turn and they'll open their hands easily, but she was having trouble opening her right hand, um, and her left hand would be fine. So her, her right hand was kind of stuck. And so after I saw her the first time, just working on her nervous system, her cranial bones, she was able to start to open her right hand. So I was like, okay, this is kind of cool. You know, even though it's like a genetic thing, I didn't think I could make a difference, but I was like, okay, we can try this. Yeah. Well, that's the, that's sometimes when I feel like I get a little bit too enthusiastic with people that aren't familiar with counter strain, is I'm like, you just try it, why not? You have nothing to lose. But like you said, it's so gentle that, um, you know, if you work on the nerves and the arm, you're not going to do any damage, um, you have everything to gain and nothing to lose. It's not like a surgery or something where like you can't uncut tissues, um, and that's certainly like my personal philosophy is if like something surfaces, my first thought is like, well, let me see what counter strain can do. And then if I have to do more invasive things on the other end, then I'll do that. But like starting with the gentler, um, yeah, the gentle, the gentler less, um, inter, interventive treatment option first, um, because might save me also thousands of dollars. Yeah, so, um, yeah, with this little girl, she, you know, they can't really do anything invasive. They just have to kind of, you know, follow her and see what happens. You know, if, if in case they have seizures or whatnot, they might have to do something invasive or maybe give her medication. Um, so because the first treatment went so well, I continued to see her about every other week. Um, and I followed her until she was about 18 years, 18 months old. And in the beginning, I worked a lot on facial and cranial bones, um, because her eyes didn't quite look symmetrical and I want to make sure that her feeding was okay. She wasn't having any issues with that, um, and usually head, anything on the head has a central impact, meaning it will, let's say we're working on a bone on the head, it will impact a system in the rest of the body. And so that is the, is theoretically, is that because of its proximity to the brain or do we know? Yeah. Yeah, just kind of where everything stems from, um, embryologically. And then so, you know, as she was growing, we could see with each gross motor, she was having some difficulty with something. Um, and so she didn't start rolling until about five months old and that usually happens about through your four months. So she was only about a month or two behind. And so sitting was the next milestone, but the parents could even get her into a sitting position, you know, how you'll like sit a baby on your lap, um, she couldn't even get into that position because she'll just like go into this extension pattern, um, like worked a lot on her nervous system, worked on her head, her spinal cord, helped her to integrate those primary, um, reflexes. And so she started to be more comfortable with sitting, uh, supported at about eight months and then she was able to sit unsupported at about nine months. Um, and so as with each growth spurt, we were able to see, you know, like a limb that was a little bit behind. So she like, she was, it wasn't getting the same message the rest of the body was getting. Yeah. So at ten months, she was trying to crawl, but her right leg was just, it would just drag. You know, it'll just be left behind and the rest of her body is trying to go forward, um, and after about two months of working with her, she was able to start to alternate her arms and her legs, um, and she was also having standard physical therapy. So I think with the counter-strain, we're able to get that physical nerves to accommodate with her growth spurt and then with physical therapy, she was able to integrate what she was, um, integrate the motor planning. Yeah. So it was a combined effort. Um, but yeah, after a few months, she pretty much caught up with her peers. So by 12 months, she was furniture surfing, but then you'll see like, she'll like dragging her left leg. His left leg didn't get the message quite yet. So worked on her nervous system, worked on those bones, worked on the central nervous system, peripheral nervous system. Um, and yes, gradually, she was, she was walking with all her friends, um, and her speech was a little bit delayed, but then by 12 months, she was able to say, "Mama," she was able to say, "Hi." Um, yeah. So overall, just with constant counter-strain and all her other, um, therapies, she never had any seizures. She never had any feeding issues. Her eyes became more symmetrical, and, um, now she's three and a half years old, and she's running with her older brother and older sister. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. What a fabulous story. What a fabulous case study. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It was like, I never thought I can, you know, when you think genetic, you think you can't really change it at all, but really, you know, the body is still accommodating the nervous system very plastic. So we definitely can make a change, we're not changing our genetics, but we're at least not now. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's so, and I think it's also a great, um, example of, because sometimes people say, well, you know, how many times do I need to go? And it's the sort of thing where it's like, well, is it a recent acute injury? Like, you dropped a hammer on your foot, because that's probably going to be a shorter, uh, less demanding treatment path than somebody whose genetics are sending signals to express development, um, in, uh, different ways in which that is like, uh, that's a chronic, um, I don't, a chronic factor, maybe it's a better way to say it, um, and so, yeah. So as this, as this baby's growing and developing, the genetic expression is constant. But you could, I was sort of see this, my like head, we see this like a little like flock of like ducklings were like, one's lagging behind and like it, and I was like, you know, like boosting it up or like, uh, catching up with their ass, you know, yeah, I like the allergy. Yeah, that's exactly it. Uh, where it's like, you're, and, and I also, it's also a testament to like you just said of like the body is so brilliant at accommodating, um, and, uh, and, or compensating, um, is the word I'm looking for in that, um, that it's always fighting to, to improve, to heal, to strengthen, um, and that, that countershing is one of those awesome inputs that we can build into the way we're caring for our bodies to, um, support that, that sort of resilience and sort of relentless tendency. Yeah, that body just needs a little nudge and that little nudge is countersteined, you know, there's also something that feels really hopeful in that story of, um, like even if let's say, right, like there's a genetic expression that is preventing nerves from communicating, uh, correctly or in a healthy way that, um, that we can revisit those nerves and like, like give them like the software update, you know, like, um, re-regulate them through the through a physical, like manual, gentle manipulation to then help them, like get back, um, updated to the latest software update. Yeah, um, yeah, I don't know, very cool, very, very cool, um, and then also, I guess like that reminds me of the story you shared with the kid with the, um, digestive dysfunction. Um, where would she be now if she didn't have that regular support for her tissues, um, be probably much more delayed or impacted or limited, um, without that kind of access. Yeah, yeah, as, as, you know, kids are not born perfect and actually a lot of kids tend to have some digestive issues. I don't know if it's because of what we are, are diet nowadays, um, or, you know, what happened during pregnancy, um, and I believe that, you know, as kids are growing, they 100% need counterstrain as they're growing, you know, for each, for each fall, because I mean, which kid trying to learn how to walk has never fallen, right. Yeah. Or, you know, each ankle sprain, you just sports injury, even, even each infection, which we don't think about, um, as a physical thing. But I treated it one adult, um, who had this unexplained neck pain that she'd had since she couldn't remember and she herself is a physical therapist and she couldn't figure out how to treat it, you know, with conventional physical therapy. Um, and so through counterstrain treatment, we were able to trace it back to some issue with her lungs and, um, some of the systems relating to that, uh, and we were able to trace it back to when she had pneumonia as a kid. So she, if we, if she, we have salt, if we saw her as a kid, after she had pneumonia, maybe she wouldn't be having pain for, you know, 20 years later, you know. So yeah, infections can also cause this lasting tissue tension in the body that can cause pain somewhere else. Absolutely. Um, that actually, uh, that's what took me, before we hit record, I was sharing with Lori about, um, what took me to the, my first counterstrain appointment and, um, I was having, my leg was collapsing underneath me and what it was was, um, I'd gotten a nail between my shin bones. It was rusty. I'd gotten a minor infection. So they put me on antibiotics, but what was happening is the lymph nodes in the back of my knee had never fully drained. And so they were putting pressure on, uh, something that was making my, uh, sort of major muscles in my leg disengage. Um, but there's an example of an infection, the infection was gone. This was like a year later, um, I was having this residual physical symptom, um, that didn't make a ton of sense because, right, like the nail went in the front of my, sorry, for the scrapping description, the front of my shin, right, it's not like, um, it was in a knee, a joint or anything. And so it was really confusing as to why I was having this pretty dramatic looking, people would be like, are you okay? I'm like, yes, all right, just all sometimes like, kind of embarrassing. Um, and, uh, yeah, getting that treated within a year, or like what would have happened if I then had to live with that for the next 10-15 years. Um, uh, and yeah, that was, that was it. And the, the, the leg collapse was due to the infection, not to the, uh, blunt, the, the, the puncture injury. Yeah. Well, one that, this, the faster you get it treated after, let's say, an injury like that, the sooner you'll heal versus, you know, if you wait 20 years, all these compensatory mechanisms have are in place. And so then we have to treat through all of that before we get to the primary source there. Yeah. Um, when I look down the, the layers of the onion right, the stack. Yeah. Um, what would you like, uh, we're reaching our time. So I just love like, what would you like for listeners to take away from this conversation that we've had today? Uh, yeah. So I think the most important thing is from what I've seen. And, from all the adults that I've treated is to, that kids need treatment too. You know, like, I see adults now with like, Ella, Dallas syndrome and hearing their history. I wish that they had counter strain for every subluxation they had, every dislocation. Um, and so maybe they wouldn't be having as hard of a time now as adults. And of course, you know, with, with some serious cases, like the genetic case that I talked about or like cerebral palsy or even autism, you know, these kids, they already have a team in place. Um, they have their medical doctor, they have physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy, even psychologists. But what they're missing is this physical medicine. And so because that they actually have dysfunction in their bodies with their physical tissues. So that's what counter strain can treat. And so which each little dysfunction that adds up, we can kind of take away that dysfunction before it builds up, right? Yeah. And so back to our like orchestra analogy. So we, you know, we walk into a concert with, for adults, we walk into this concert with like 50 instruments that are all out of tune. Um, and then with kids, we just have to, you know, find, you know, the one vein or the, or the nervous system. And then as they're growing, we can fine tune this orchestra. And then they'll be able to be more in balance as they grow. And so, yeah, early at invention is super powerful. You know, we are fine tuning their system before they, they become chaotic and become this a heart and tree. So we want to mold them as they're sapling. Yeah. So yeah, all they need is a little gentle nudging counter strain. Yeah. And I mean, this is like, it comes full circle to the baby with the gastrointestinal distress. What would that person's life look like if they were living with gastrointestinal inflammation or dysfunction for 30 years versus not. And what, almost like, what chronic conditions could we prevent? Or like with the, the third case that you shared, what genetic conditions can we, um, can we like soften the impact of over the long term? You mentioned others, Danlos as well, of people are more prone to injury. And what if we could save them from all of the, all of the load and burden that that places on there already, laboring, um, system? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's, let's get out there. Let's help some kids. Yep. We need more listeners to help those kids. Yeah. Uh, great. Um, how, if people have listened to this because I think that this is going to spark some questions, um, especially from parents, how can people get in touch with you? Um, I'm in Los Angeles County in Arcadia, California. And, um, my website is in balance at qpt.com. And so you can call text or email. Um, and also we are working on a, um, like case studies website. So we have, if you're more interested in more of these stories and how counterstrain and other manual techniques can help, you can go to fasciacasestudies.com. Fabulous. I will include that. And then, um, just to, just a case of provider was listening to this and heard your little call to action about getting trained, um, we'll also include information about the, uh, uh, continuing education institutions that provide counterstrain trainings. Thank you, Lori. This was really, really interesting. Um, I really appreciate you coming on today and talking about something that we haven't talked about yet. Uh, and it was a fabulous, fabulous conversation. Yeah. Thank you very much. Thank you for tuning in today and we hope you learned something new. If you'd like to continue learning alongside us and hear more real stories of healing and recovery, please take two minutes to subscribe and then leave a five star review. Those two minutes will help someone out there who's looking for a new way forward to find us so that we can introduce them to new possibilities that could help them recover their health lives and hope. The counterstrain movement is an educational podcast produced by the bridge back project. The bridge back project is a 501c3 nonprofit on a mission to bring the facial counterstrain to the world to address the impact of trauma, promote healing and restore hope. They do this by sponsoring research directly funding counterstrain treatment and developing education initiatives that build public awareness about counterstrain's ability to treat a wide array of conditions so that people living with chronic symptoms can return to living healthy, fulfilling lives. I'm your host, Fiora Mench, and you've been listening to the counterstrain movement.