Costco Deepdive, Health Insurance Pricing, Iran on the Edge of Freedom and Albo's Royal Commission Dark Arts

And you need to beat this out, Mark, but said to him, "If you change the price of the Hot Dogs, I'll f**k your you." I was there. It was the classic comment that he made. I'm Adam Schwab. I'm Adir Shiffland. And this is The Contrarians with Adam and Adir. And we are back in person, episode 167. This is Cypher Souris. Well, it's like we get the one week with overlapping time in the world. Are you going next week? I will. I can't see what I'm going to see. You're going to see. Well, actually, I'm going to be in person. I'll be having my leg operated on Thursday. What's with that? My MRI is being removed. Oh, that's exciting for you. I didn't realise you needed a second procedure. Well, you could leave it in. But, you know, obviously, if you have it, all the detectives. No, I've never been, because new metal detectives, you know, have an issue. What is the totanium? Totanium. And I'm not sure what the pins are, but the doctors always said, you might as well take it out, sort of within roughly. It's been nine months, ten months. I hope you're just getting April. So, get out now and have the relic. You know, there's pins. Yeah. Like, it's a very complicated concept, because, you know, a screw has got a thread. Yeah. And a thread is a great place for things to grow. Yeah. And so, like, the nature of those screws has to be very particular, so that nothing can grow on them, basically. Yeah. So, hopefully, these, I come out. So, I come out on Thursday. So, I'll be recording from home, I presume, next week. And hopefully, after that, it'll be relatively mobile, but I'm not sure how long the recovery is. Have you been barefoot running? A blast. Well, I got back from Dubai, which was about a second on Friday night, and ran every day, since it's nice. Got to get as many runs as I can before I get the rot acts. I'll be out of action for, I'll presume, six weeks. Oh, yeah, again. Yeah, so it's a, oh, right. Yeah, it's quite a bit pre-serious. It's pre-serious, pretty serious. Just day surgery, but it's like that, I went down the rabbit hole of complexity and rock and all looking at the different recovery time. And so, everyone says a different thing, but it looks like it's a four to six week recovery. So, hopefully, not as long as the first time. I'll sit next to someone at a cafe, like they're in a separate table that happened to, you know, I can listen to multiple conversations at once. And so, it was a young woman, she might have been like, she'd just finished a sports science degree, and we're talking to this kind of older, quite weathered guy. And what she was talking about, I think she worked in a gym, and she was talking about doing the Iron Man, for Iron Man and Cairns. Amazing. You're doing that or you're not doing that? God no, no. I'm not a great swimmer, not a great swimmer. Not a great swimmer, not a great cyclist. No, my great runner, either, but they have. So, but I'm not certainly a cyclist. Cyclist is very special. You sort of a specialy cyclist, and I'm not that. And, you can make a lot of ground up in the swim leg and I'm like, amazing swimmer. So, no, I'm never, but Iron Man is, that's 10 to 12 hours of full exercise. Pretty amazing. Ridiculous. I was listening to, like, the training the guy said, because I think he was the guy training her for the event. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's actually insane. Yeah, it is a, let's try and get this crazy. It's a ridiculous fate of human. Yeah. My friend, Sam Netouli, he's done a bunch of them. And he would say how he drinks just like bottles of Coke during the, really, just to get, to get sugar in you buy. But he, I think he does in around 10. He's a super athlete. Oh, sure. He's his great few. You know, he's, um, accelerates gastric emptying. Yeah. So, anything he ate goes, like, it's, just a little less with his face. Oh, that's what, that's what he, I remember him. So, it's stuck with, this is about five or six years ago, but he's done a number of them. Uh, it is an incredible fate, like a marathon's a decent feat, but, uh, oh, I think even I'm a man, you've got 1.8 clone of swim, 190 km ride and a marathon. I'm just, I actually really give a body to be honest. I think it's pretty strange, but I think Marathon for me is about the most all ever do, and even now I've known one for a decade. There's a Tokyo marathon coming up. Yeah, be one of the big, is a big six or big eight or whatever. There's a big, big ex number of men. There's all great monsters in London, New York. Amazing. Like this, I'm an thing. I am J runs the Melbourne. That's a gold mine. Yeah, absolutely. The Marathons. Yeah. That's a gold mine. Oh, I would have thought the Marathons are far more profitable than I, just because a lot more people do the Marathons. Yeah. I mean, there's nothing, well, a thou, a couple thousand people. It's a marathon. Close the Straits. Ridiculous. Have a few people on the side. People want you to probably even get paid. Yeah. Like the Australian open. Yeah. For boys and girls. Yeah. Well, they get paid. No, I don't know. I don't know. Volunteers. Are they still volunteers? I'm almost certain. Unless it changed in the last year. I know we've got some listeners who have done it. So I'll let us know for sure. I'll be surprised if they see guys. They paid for them. I've known. Would you assume? Really? Yeah. You think it's volunteer as well? I think it's volunteer. That's crazy. Yeah. You get to be on TV. They're running around the corner. Do you get stopped? Don't do this. Sales pitch for it. They should pay them. The kids would jump on board that. I would have done it. I would have done it as a kid as well. But basically, there's a reason that unpaid internships are unlawful in Australia. Yeah. It's because people would do them to try and get a free hat. Yeah, exactly. But that doesn't mean we don't want to just, like, capitalism run totally free reign. It's absurd. It's absurd. Like, the amount of people that are dining in, like, first class facilities on tax pay funds a bit of this. Is that right? Yeah. They're not paying board boys. That's the case. And girls, what should I say? Well, I think Tokyo might not be enthusiastic about this marathon. I can. The people of Tokyo. I can. I don't think they've really got behind it. You don't have a tourist, so if you're not saying, I mean, that's the greatest sales pitch for your business. But, like, basically. Oh, we don't do a huge amount of Japan. I think. In 100 years, when people look back on this era, when we're not here anymore, they will say, "This is the era that the West had, like, this fixation with everything Japanese, the food, the design, the style, like, going there." It's amazing. It's amazing. It's amazing. Like, no, as it was there. It is, but, like. It's really, like, everybody loves Japan, everybody loves everything Japanese. Everybody loves Japanese people. Everyone, yeah. And so, I think they're over it. Really are. They don't want tourists there anymore. Yeah. There's a little benefit. They've been there for a little while, to be honest. But, I mean, they're very slow up to cover, to open up in terms of allowing tourists in. So, I'm not sure that's a. No, I read an article about some. You know what percentage of their population is not ethnic Japanese? Oh, a lot. They're very. Very low. Yeah, three percent. Yeah. It was like, got to be one of the lowest in the world. It was the most homogeneous population, right? And so, I read an article that was interviewing some people that lived there. I'm not sure whether there were citizens or not, non-Japanese, non-ethnic Japanese, and the message they were sending was basically, we're just trying to demonstrate that we do things like the Japanese do, so that it may. That it mistake us for tourists, because we're worried there's going to be a backlash against all foreigners in Japan, because of the influx of tourists. Yeah. So, it'll be interesting to see how they take the Tokyo Marathon. So, I was in a place that's almost the opposite of that last week, do you know what that was? I know what it was. Dubai. I was in Dubai, which is very embracing of tourists. And you've been. You've been to Dubai. I've been to Dubai, yeah. Recently? Yeah, like last year. I'll ask you. For work or for a holiday? I was traveling for work, and I ended up there for a couple of days, because of some flight. Yeah. Issues, and so, I don't know what you'd call it. It was a holiday, because I was actually on the plane with my son, so I got to spend some time with him. We weren't there for long. It's a crazy place. What are you obviously talking about? It's got some traffic problems. Oh, traffic's pretty bad. How much was that? I was shocked at the time. In the afternoon. In the morning, it's fine. In the afternoon, it's a disaster. So, it's such an efficient place. Yeah. It's got some huge advantages at place. When you're on the air, on the airport, on the country, it becomes very efficient. And for land? Yeah. It's astonishing. And almost of the hotels and big chunk of the businesses, but yeah. I think you can judge that place in two ways. How many of you can judge it based on what level of the potential that they had have they reached? Yeah. And I think that's close to 100%. Yeah. Like, it's a desert. Yeah. Absolutely. In the middle of kind of nowhere. And like, it does have a nice sea on one side. Yeah. But what they've done with it is pretty incredible, and it's safe. And it just feels like a place where they do love money in that place, like money by who buys anything and everything. Oh, it was the best. On the flip side. How long would you go? What sort of person would go there for a holiday? You have to love resorts. Because some people-- People say the city? Yes. But most people don't do that. Most people just go to the resorts to stay in the resorts. You can just go to the pub. But there's some great place in the city as well to stay. Did you go in like, I mean, you've been there before-- No, my first time. Oh, really? Yeah. Did you go and do like, meet the better ones and stuff like that? We did it safari. There's a far-re thing. Which we did one in Jordan. We did much better. I know it was four-wheel drive. That was probably the friends of Elevate who run an amazing business there. We do a lot of work with. They do transfers and they do heaps of touristy stuff. And they do a lot of stuff with airlines and a bunch of other, obviously, clients like us. They sort of some heaps of stuff out for me. So I did a chopper ride over the bar, which was cool. I did an amazing sunset yacht cruise, which was one of the best things I've ever done. That was phenomenal. Going through the amazing marina they built. And then you go out to the palm and see Berger Arrow, which is one of the most expensive hotels in the world. And obviously go through the, see all the 8,000 palm, then go back through it, which is really spectacular. Seeing all really all of the buy, went up the Burj Khalifa, which is really incredible. Went to the aquarium and the buy malls. They did lots of stuff. And we always went to the aquapart. We were staying at Raffles for three days on the palm, which was incredible. And we said it at Langer's to Royal, but he missed no back jock of it, and Ronaldo by a couple days. I thought he'd go there. Sadly, but it was a pretty incredible property. It's 7.95 rooms. I think the penthouse 120 grand a night. It's got. Yeah. Have you been there? No. The breakfast size of me was like a soccer field. It's got 100 different things. That is what their thing is, right? Their thing is luxury. And it is ridiculous. It's a whole, I would say. It's a whole city state built on luxury and built on giving young people experiences. It's got some similarities to Las Vegas without the kit, right? Yeah. But Singapore is like a, I know that Japan is a functioning city state as well, and like they have a big finance business industry there. No tax. No tax. But you go there and it's an alternate reality, like. And so for me, like it's not the most appealing holiday destination, because I'm not such a resorts person. I'm all like to go to cities or countryside or whatever it is. But I do absolutely understand why people love it, like it is very luxurious. If you. There is a company. And the shake, Muhammad, has done an incredible job building Dubai as Dubai Inc. And it's got incredible brand. They've started to build some real scale. There's more hotels almost per capita than anywhere else. And there's. When you think there's no real process power, and there's no real sort of kind of. Well, there's been a kind of position, I guess, against other Middle Eastern regions. And I think the kind of position against Singapore and sort of stop over places. But if you look at. He's built some real powers in that place. And that's unbelievable. And you. He does have one scale advantage, which is a very large pile of money. And. And another one. Another really big one. You know, the other really big scale of energy has. Ethically, may be questionable. Cheap labour? Cheap labour. Yeah. And look at the number one. You know, number one ethnicity in. Probably Indian, I suppose. In the 40%. Yeah. And then you got, I think. Well, normal life is three hours or one. Yeah. So, you know what, the population percentage of local Emirates is tiny. Right. I think there might be 300,000 Emirates. Six percent. Full stock. Exactly. Yeah. So it's pretty incredible. And they don't believe that they don't live in the centre of Dubai. They're in these kind of gated places. Outside the centre. Yeah. I think they. Everything's free for them. They pay note. I mean, no one pays tax. No, tax. But they live. That is a great life. Yeah. I think if you want to be something, you want to be an Emirati. Yeah. That is a good life. That is pretty cool. I'm wearing that again. Totally relaxed. You'd be relaxed as well. You got no worries in the world. It's such an incredible. I actually reckon it's a fantastic destination. We sell a bit of it. It's not. We sell more Singapore. Singapore is the number one flight destination for Australians. Well, there's a lot more Singapore Airlines flights than our Emirates flights. I think SKU has six daily flights to the big cities now, whereas Emirates has two. Yeah. And therefore, I'd be planes in. This is not an Emirates flight. And it's close Singapore. And also, Australians are much more familiar with Asia than with the Middle East. Yeah. Australians started flying to the Emirates only as a way to get to other places. Yeah, exactly. To get to Europe. But is it. I think it is a. If you haven't been there for. I know you have. I'm not sure if you've been to Dubai. No, except for the airport. Do you want to? I've actually heard really good things about it. So, I wouldn't mind, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is like. I highly recommend it. It's. And I was a wee say to it. I've written some articles for the man and all that stuff. But you can. It's actually not that expensive. Especially if you stay. This is peak, peak, peak. But if you go in. You don't want to go in the really hot period, probably, which gets to 60 degrees. But if you went in, say, April, May, which is getting pretty hot and stayed at Creekside, you can put a couple hundred bucks in hot. I can be quite reasonable as well. Yeah. It's not always that $10,000 or $90,000. What's amazing is, you know, when you fly from Tel Aviv to Dubai, you fly over Saudi. Yeah. And you're just flying for maybe four hours. And really all you see is desert. Yes. It's quite incredible. Yeah. Like, there is nothing, there's a few villages. Like, obviously, you fly over a mountain. There are some a few cities. But, largely, these whole things are desert. Yes. You don't quite appreciate that. Yeah. Until you fly. And there's often no clouds. So, you can see. I always shocks me that people are stuck on their entertainment system. When they're flying over a landscape, it looks like you're on the moon. Yeah. And it's so. You know, a hundred years ago, people would have paid anything to go up in some balloon and look down on that landscape. Yeah. But now people are like, you know, whatever eating their food and what you see. Well, you see Saturday's time, right? Taking it, obviously, to much be a country. But with they arm and with all the work they're doing. And they're creating sort of a. Their own version of Dubai and more money. Yeah. Well, per capita, I'm not sure. Well, they can build anything, right? Yeah. So, the unlimited amount of money, essentially. Yeah. But very. They're taking it very similar part. And I think MBS, obviously, gets criticized for the incident happened a number of years ago. No one's done more for women's rights and for the minority rights almost anywhere in the world that MBS has. So, I think he's been an incredible. And obviously, Jake Muhammad in Dubai is an amazing job. But ironically, we'll get to it in a second. But there's probably no safer place for Jews anywhere in the world than Dubai. It's probably the safest place in general. And there's no protest on the street. There's no, any sort of rapid vegetators, they get cleaned up in two seconds. So, there's literally no safer place than Dubai, I think, for that I'd rather be. It was. I felt incredibly safe. Women are incredibly safe there. Women's rights are very strong. So, it's really no racist in the desert in many ways. Interesting. Do you want to talk about some Australians? Well, let's talk about. We obviously had the Royal Commission call between our most recent recent episode. And today, we're now filming, obviously, day before we launch. It's been a sort of week, it's now off the news cycle. Elbow probably got a bit on, like, he was trying to write out the news cycle and he mystifies by about four days. So, he was doing his best to avoid a commission into himself. That's true. Couldn't quite get there. I feel like he was making a calculation, which was, people can hate me for two or three weeks. Yeah. A long way from the next election. Or I can get investigated, essentially. Because, like, no, no pro-minister wants a Royal Commission. No. I can get investigated for the two years leading up to the election. And that would be much less desirable. And so, he's found. I mean, he had to capitulate to it. It was. I think, you know, a lot of people did some pretty amazing work keeping it in the media and keeping attention on, like, Josh Frydenberg in particular and a whole group of other people. You can have some orange people as well. So, at one point, I think what shifted him is how much this was not a Jewish issue. When all those athletes came out. Yeah, amazing. I thought that might have been the straw that broke into that. And no comparison. A great supporter of Jewish people in the last three years. So, he was going to hear it all the other athletes that were massively supported. Well, I think that flipped. And politicians and people across society. And people have very worked up about the. This is what people have worked up about. So, the terms of reference are good. Yep. Like they're quite broad. Yeah. You know, I've said this before. This idea of always linking Islamophobia to anti-Semitism is a dumb idea. Yeah. Because it turns it into a contest. Yeah. Between Muslims and Jews. Yeah. Where, actually, they both are experiencing racism. And sometimes Islamophobia is worse. Yeah. Like after September 11, I remember how much Islamophobia was. It was terrible. Yeah. When I say Islamophobia, I mean, people didn't want to fly on planes. Yeah. With Muslim-looking passengers. Yeah. That is Islamophobia. And I remember at the time, like. I mean, I didn't have much of a voice at that time. But whatever voice I had, like I was speaking out against it. Lots of Jewish people were speaking out against it. Today, there is Islamophobia. Like there are women that get abused or whatever happens to them with hijabs. It's just not a severe problem anywhere. Near a severe is anti-Semitism today. No one's going to. In Australia, it's been killed. Yeah. There shouldn't be constantly juxtaposing these two to create this division of like, who's got a better claim for being oppressed. Well, it was like some people who were on that court that, um, the side of Hamas, let's say, bring it up as a way to diminish the impact on them. But even if you just look at the people that do it for, I think there are some, um, like honest operators that raise it. There are some dishonest operators for sure that are raising it. I think that they should steer. Like the idea that they said that Elbow said, um, there's an anti-Semitism, I don't know what they call it. It's a commissioner or whatever. Envoy. Envoy, is it? Yeah. And so they had to have. Right, yeah, yeah. Like what I'm saying is not that Islamophobia is, um, is made up or pretend, my main issue is you're trying to have this idea of social cohesion, which is now a euphemism for, like, Islamist terror. Yeah. But like, but real social cohesion, you're trying to have social cohesion in Australia. And then you get these, um, two groups of people that before October 7, were actually, um, becoming like more and more intertwined and their communities were getting closer. Yeah. And then you say, "What can we do to make them feel like they're competing against each other?" Yeah. Let's just, every time we say anti-Semitism, juxtapose Islamophobia. Well, let's not forget the reason that Hamas launched the attack in October 2007, was because Israel is about to sign the Abrahamic Corpse Act. Exactly. And he's where I was about to normalize with it yet another powerful. Exactly. was the language of the race. They people wanted war between the West and Muslim countries. And I'm surprised that more people from the. I'll recall it from the most Muslims I've caught in these bracket as good Muslims, peace-loving Muslims, haven't stood up for this. And they definitely have millions of them out there. I think they are. I think people in Australia in the Muslim community are supportive of this behind closed doors. Mostly they were terrified that these attacks would blow back onto them. And they're justifiable, absolutely. And so that, and luckily, they haven't. And I think one of the reasons they haven't is because the hero was a Syrian Muslim hero. What hero? Is there a multiple hero here? Like the guy that got the most attention from being a hero? Who knows what's going on there? The other thing people are worried about is the commissioner. Is it what it's called? The commissioner? The royal commissioner. Yeah. And so I think. Which I am. Nobody thinks it's great. My view is she's almost worse than having no commissioner. Well, I tell you why I disagree with that. I mean, you disagree. She's going to be under a lot of pressure. A lot of eyes are going to be on this. And one way or another, there's a light that's going to shine on this. The reason people are opposed to her is because. Something was just absolutely in the category. So maybe you're opposed to. It's almost the worst possible choice. Okay, so. It's rather than assuming yes or error that. And that's because you think that the decision that she made around the idea of free speech. That's not because of that. Was used. Not because of that at all. So for people who don't know, so she made a decision as a high court judge. Because there's no protection of freedom of speech in the constitution. She made a decision that then became the basis of some degree of protected speech. And that is the precedent that was used to allow the bridge protest. Not by her, but by the Supreme Court judge in New South Wales. I don't play for that Supreme Court judge stuffing it up. That wasn't. The other reason people have got issues with her is because. She comes from a very left-leaning. She picked the furthest left judge in Australia. That's one. That's one. That's one. That's another reason. And I think she's over there. She was never qualified to be a high court judge. Are you that people say she's like. Well, there's no qualification required to be a high court judge. It's a frame of the poll, a turning general of the day. People think of her high court judge there and eminent jurors. But I don't write that. They get their lackey 19, 21-year-old genius law students to write that. Or they do all that work for them. They actually do any work. They have been. They have political appointments who are particularly great lawyers. It's just an absolute joke. But that's a lesson. They're a good high court judge. Absolutely. They're a bad high court judge. Absolutely. The other issue. But she shouldn't have been like. He clearly. Albo is no fool. Like, he's a. These guys. Not quite down-andries, but in terms of rat punishments. He's an listen to his politician. Yeah. And this was just a disgusting appointment. What the commission should be looking at is the. He mungers amounts of anti-semitism in universities. People like Mark stop running around. Because they'll be looked at. They'll be looked at this person's gonna do it. She's power that world basically the we have to face reality Which is get my marry costachatus to run the Royal Commission. I will cry for no Nobody wants to leave sky one to Julian Assange really do it. No one is no one Once to call a royal commission into themselves. Yeah, Elbow's just done it. Yeah, so he's got the personal issues a bit No one's talking about he got he's go-to person for Hatchet jobs and royal commissions she was the person that did the Hatchet job in Scott Morris and having 52 Different menace right? Yeah, but yeah, but it was the choice right and so obviously he's gonna choose someone that he thinks is gonna Cover him as much as possible and it's like 11 months this royal commission It's the open your eyes. You close your eyes. You open them again. It's over right? I've had we said I would do extensive consultation In choosing two days before he was fusion to have a royal commission He was lying there is lying there. He's lying in one point. He also said it was the fastest royal commission ever like I mean, I know I think everyone saw through that firstly It isn't the fastest royal commission ever and secondly, um, I think everyone knows he didn't want to do it like you know You like he's spinned. You don't work. I will say this so There should be more Commissioners. There shouldn't be one commission. I'm actually I'm like well Had it not been this far left campaigning commission. I ran for one of the advantages of having multiple is that you get to Really multiple. I'm gonna say someone that I think should have been a commissioner and you're gonna punch me in the face Where we are quite a distance away from each other? Yeah, your reach doesn't quite get here But I am kind of terrified to raise this person. So it's someone who Is has done very terrible things? I Opposed almost everything that they have stood for Before you know, no But they're very Embedded in the Labor Party and loved by the Labor Party and have consistently spoken publicly about Anti-Semitism even when the whole Labor Party has largely been against them and this will give our way the rest of it and I would still Consider them despite the fact that they are probably a bit too buddy buddy with Xi Jinping Who am I talking about that Andrew? I would think about putting him on because he's been consistently standing against anti-Semitism He's loved by the Labor Party He's he would give credibility to the Royal Commission and yeah, and even He's been a friend of the Jews except when he was a massive anti-mini-juice or encoder Remember when he held those Jews out of dry made well that was more of that Yma dude like made a few comments, right that he later recanted about really just Jews No, but it was the it was the famous engagement party and he made all his own dance over that so I wouldn't worry about that I think this is a guy who's consistently Sorry, he's clearly not qualified. We don't need a lawyer to be a commissioner You can I've never known you in fact the recommendation committee the recommended commissioners that were being banded about was Senior judge. Yeah, I Someone from the like the security services like former like a dentist reaches in time Yeah, that kind of person and someone from our Jewish community. I've never known a Royal Commission to not have a Legally I think if someone like that was sitting on that Royal Commission. It's actually it's like a court. Well, it's not a court It's like a court. It's like a Like a start chain. Yeah, it's like a super powerful Laws there's no laws of evidence. There's no right to defense. Yeah, like It is a tough place. I don't think you can have a non-legal person forgetting the Dan Andrews thing I'm not sure if I'm sophisticated enough to know whether there have been Non-legal I don't recall ever not being a judge, but it'll be wrong I'm sure this is correct me on this but I thought a lot of it is look You might be right. It might be disastrous, but you can't have everything and this is like this would have been a Very unexpected win when Three weeks ago, so we should just take the win and I think that it has largely happened because more than 50% of the population in every poll Yeah, is supportive of a Royal Commission and given that there's 0.3% of the population as Jewish Yeah, it's not Jews, right? So I think that's what flippetus. There's not enough to get the 15 people killed in Bondi two which weren't Jews. Yeah, so like it wasn't just No, I don't think the population feels like this is a Jewish issue every every person who goes to bond eyes impacted by it So it's it's like turned into a community issue. I mean, do you feel do you got I mean you guys are not in the Jewish community? Like do you feel like Bondi is an Australian issue or it was probably a Jewish community issue. Oh, that's a hard one to answer I feel like it. I mean, it is an Australia issue, but I think it's it's um it's spurred by a Jew Jewish hatred or disdain that I've I've been sensing in the country. I think for a while Yeah, definitely. I think that's the backdrop. By the way, the ISIS maniacs, they're quite keen on killing you as well They're more keen. They're more keen on killing us They might be most keen on killing other Muslims to be honest But um but they are they're not a fan of anyone who does not share their particular very fringe insane version of Islam I think people I think people rallied towards this Because it was on Bondi beach and everybody could imagine themselves and their kids being on Bondi beach and getting shot up by Like some maniac Islamist fundamentalist ISIS person and it brought it very close to home for lots of people I think when you saw the 10-year-old girl Matilda who died and any of us will have kids I've got a kid I got kids 9 and 11 so like in that that exact age you've got kids a little bit older I think anyone with a 10-year-old or even a kid of any sort could very much empathise with a heartbreak of losing a child of that age So and then clearly the government shot at that young child So they went out that way to kill defenseless children, which is pretty important speaking of which have you been following the Adelaide writers festival tobacco? I sure have I sure have I think that is completely insane like you have someone here This is a great great example of this View that I have which is humanity versus identity and this random abdel fatah Fatah Academic from I think you have to ours who is a palestine in origin who has been extremely aggressive with her comments against Well she calls them Zionists but really the comments yeah her like so she was Let's say cancelled she was cancelled from the Adelaide writers festival Not because of identity. She was cancelled because of humanity It wasn't because she's a palestineian It's because finally after Bondi people have said hang on a second Maybe there are some limits to free speech yeah, and certain things might be hate speech For example calling for Israel to be destroyed that might be hate speech And saying Zionist should have no cultural safety or whatever she said given that that a lot of things that that's is that that includes that includes not only does that include I don't know 80% plus of all Jews yeah, and by the way all these Terrible terrible people that today wouldn't platform Zionists. Yeah, that's also 80 plus percentages But it's also if anyone who believes it's probably not an idea 80% right because I'm trying to be conservative right But also it's anyone who believes that they should be to say solution that which you'd presume is all of the reasonable people Yeah, and so that are not Jews yeah, and so that is um who she's denigrating yeah plus a whole lot of other stuff that she's said and done Nobody cares what she's I'll be very happy to have palestinians at the Adelaide writers festival But the hell's identity got to do with anything well the most so there's been People saying the Adelaide writers been destroyed. I got a few things to say about this destroyed What after the cancellations last year? 90 people 90 writers of withdrawal is some and some good trade I'm shocked that some of what I think they understand what they're doing I think these people are a disgrace for a start like first I want earth. We should invite in the first place You know she was invited because The arts has been a safe haven for the anti-Semite. It's been an advocacy and it worked paradise That's right. It's been an advocacy network for the anti-Semite. Yeah, and there has been a conscious decision To run an anti-Israel anti-Semitic narrative across a lot of anti-Sionist But they went out with a claim that we can if we If we have an ounce of intelligence we can say yeah, the nature of the criticism about so-called Zionists is criticism of Jews And so because the criticism of people don't know what they're saying when they say Zionists They don't really know what Zionists means. They're saying Jews, right? Like they're not are they talking about the Arab Israelis that support a Jewish homeland and being part of I don't think they're talking about them are they? So So that is why she was invited. Yeah, the question is how did she get cancelled because apparently Louise Adelaide did not know that she was being cancelled and Louise Adela runs that show Melanie Auskis, the premier of South Australia came out and basically gave some great reasons why it was inappropriate for her to attend Ultimately, do you know what the language is they use for her cancellation? No, I think they said She was culturally insensitive. Yeah, and what I love about that is that All-theocratic revolutions because this is this far left workism is a form of theocracy All-theocratic revolutions. They eventually turn on each other using the same language Like once you've rigged up that guillotine and you've started chopping of heads Don't be shocked when your neck is on their next and that is basically what's happened to her She's been she's been trying to get on with their own language She's trying to get Thomas Friedman cancelled last year. I know, which is the most and Thomas Friedman has then you know So I was I don't say far left a very clearly left-leaning American Jew Highly critical of the Israeli government. Yeah, the biggest disgrace of all is of the 90 People who pulled out some of them. I think a good ride some of them Knowing what they were saying like there was one woman. I forget her name. I should have never heard of her before I think she wanted a watch as young she pulled out saying From the river to the sea cars the tell us that we'll be free I mean, I don't think she knows what she's saying in the sense that she doesn't know what those words mean Yeah, but she knows they're not very nice to Jews So I think there's that group of people and then there's another group of people It doesn't understand what Randall at Randall Abdelphad has said Yeah, and doesn't understand that by pulling out they are essentially advocating that this type of language should be appropriate in a Western liberal The most important thing she did and she done a lot of important things is the day after that October 7th or so before that Anything happens. This is a great point. She put on Twitter a poster of a parachuteist with the Guas and flag. I think it's called a parachute. Paraglider. Paraglider. Whatever it was. Effectively I don't like effectively But the the form of transport used to land at the Nova Festival and kill three to four hundred in a hundred this rail Those those particular Paragliders were especially bad because they're the things that landed at the Nova Festival. Yeah, so they killed innocent Children they raped women so this is what she supports the rape of women the rape in it Well, I think she may be there's a lot. I don't want to put this on her But I think I read and if it's not her definitely it's pervasive in this world They deny the rape of women. Oh, but she probably does but it's there's clear evidence as Mass rape mass murder of young children and this is what she supports So if you pull out of the right as festival in places of her being withdrawn, they knew effectively support this stuff So every person who pulled out needs to know what their supporting rate is supporting murder I mean, this isn't not of IDF but whatever you were thinking about the IDF and obviously we don't like people They're saying that this is innocent people being murdered. She's lauded lauding on Twitter. And this is her that support So I think the tide may be turning not just because of this but when I went on Reddit And had a look at what people were saying about this and also what they were saying about Nicholas Reese the the Lord be of Melbourne saying don't go out on your Palestinian protests I don't call a Palestinian pro-Khama's pro-Isis. Yeah go and help the people fighting bushfires. Yeah I looked on Reddit at the response to that And Reddit usually is quite left leaning to say the least and People were largely supportive of it and pillering the protesters I think the tide is turning after Bond. I really do. I hope I hope it stays turned I don't know how much it's going to turn But um there's definitely a change and I don't know if you saw those protesters But they don't they're not even ashamed anymore about pretending that they're in pro-Palestinian They basically one of them was standing up in Melbourne and just yelling and saying we totally support Khama And they're allowed to do whatever they want to pay any means and their ideology will never die Yeah, I mean daddy's what's going on And I think the days of that might be coming to an end just about this on the festival before we move on to next point Which is related, but what this is a I used to have sponsors responsive now or pulled out Why is this taxpayer funded like we take money from taxpayers and we can choose what we want to do We can give it to hosposing to the schools. Yeah, we give it to these far left Work because we're not that is what we're doing taxpayer money. That's not that was the amount of that's we should just shut this whole thing And then they can boy call they want because they can boycott nothing because like these things can't be self-funding No one's going to pay for this garbage. So I'm supportive of like some funding for writers festivals Zero funding for rights. I'm a writer. I don't know why I'm not getting funded. I wrote a book nobody funded my festival You want to get invited you should go I'm You should say you should you want to be a part of the Adelaide writers I think they'll be very good because you've got to wear my cafe you've got a book You can you can go and say I've written this book if you spot for free now I'll fill in well Can you imagine what could people I could fill those spots with now so some other people that have Quit people who don't support rape and murder. I think a lot of the people that have quit that Will very much regret that decision down the line. I don't think they understood what they've just I'm not someone like I'm not Trace also like a big ride. What is he doing? I understand why how he could get caught up In the lies in the lying narrative of what's actually going on here But I think I hope I would hope that he would regret this decision down the line the most fascinating part of this the article I most want to read probably in the Australian is is um How the hell did this happen? Yeah, like who did this because she's running that festival I suspect she would have filled the whole festival with people like she could have and so Someone she came at and said it wasn't me. Yeah, and so Someone's done this and we should make it happen. Yeah, and like has it come out of the premier's office It's possible came out of the premier's office. Yeah, well it gets funded by taxpayers So it's not funded by the people who go there because I know someone wants to pay for these stuff Since we're talking about divisive people who pretend not to be divisive There was a particular cricketer that retired this week that I thought had the potential to be One of the unifying forces in Australia and that is kawaja. You see he's retired. Yep. Didn't didn't cover himself in glory with his last match Yeah, and when I saw so kawaja is Is a special person in Australian cricket because he's Pakistani born and And I think he continues to emphasize the fact that Australian selectors are trying to pick the best 11 people Yeah, irrespective of ethnic background where they come from etc I suspect that in 20 years most of the Australian cricket team might be of Indian heritage would be my guess Give away cricket. He's going in where Indian immigration is going And so when I looked at kawaja I thought this is a person who can prove better than anyone That Australia is a multicultural society where if you embrace the culture like you know I mean he and from Pakistan where there is cricket. Yeah, but like he's embraced the Australian culture Is he he's become part of the Australian cricket team. What a great story Unfortunately, that was not the story that played out not only did he try to wear Palestinian flags or whatever Or policy and writing on his cricket shoes and had to be prevented from doing it after October 7 But his farewell speech that he gave or an interview to the media was basically a woe is me Like assessment of the fact that he was discriminated against because he's a different religion And a different color and when comment had his criticise his preparation It had racial undertones now. I don't know about what privilege exactly encompasses But I'm pretty sure that you can't say that you've been badly treated and discriminated against When 11 people in the hall of Australia get chosen to be in the Australian cricket team And they pick you as one of the eleven. That feels like you know It's a pretty reasonable treatment to me. And so I found him Unbelievably disappointing. I've actually heard As a human being he's in a good human being. Yeah, I we have a liberty to learn luxurious games And he says why you're so quiet. No, I was saying you finish your I was he was one of my favorite players I was I've been disappointed in me in in the last few months for him So I'm a massive fan of his he started. I don't understand what has to be about identity Like this is a guy that has been embraced by Aussies As Aussies it comes. Yeah, he's Muslim. He's got brown skin. He doesn't drink alcohol He doesn't pretend to be something. He's not and Australia has embraced him And why couldn't he talk about how great that is and what a fantastic country this is for doing that Rather than just focusing on identity identity identity. Yeah, and so Yeah, I think it's really upsetting He's not Craig Foster level upsetting, but it is he's disappointed. He's got to me He certainly was one of my favorite players. He's not my favorite player and I don't think the last month is being great For Aussie, but ultimately let's look at his career It was a great career and then the last month wasn't how we wanted to end Yeah, let's move on to a LBW for full toss. Yeah, sort of great Not the greats last couple Well, I say it's a positive note, but there's obviously some some tragedy here But we've seen the protests in Iran That is they started over falling currency and throwing prices and the inflation's out of control there and it's suddenly Transfirm to Transform to a tax on legitimacy of theocratic regime itself Protest has been shouting anti-raging slogans in the streets of Tehran from really the last week or so Videos have showed burnt cars and mosques and 19 your activists said last Friday We're marching in thousands tonight. I saw children on the shoulders of their parents a grandmother charting death to Kamani While she's decked out in a chandel black robe. Do you not realize how significant this is? I should say that there's there's not all good news. We've seen 500 at least 538 people killed I said it's real into a thousand since this is 538 people that we know about According to the human rights news agency including more than 500 protests the group reported that 16,000 people been arrested by Iranian authorities of course we saw this in we seen this sort of four or five times in the last 10 years So there's 19 a couple thousand at least a couple thousand people died with similar sort of riots Um, we could be witnessing the end of one of the most brutal disgusting regimes of our lifetime Adir what happened? I'm more skeptical like so I think there's a difference between the Ayatollah and Theocracy, maybe is how I would describe it My concern is so the plan of this Ayatollah who's 80 something is only 87 or 87 or something His plan is the plan of all dictators ultimately which is to turn into a king and to hand it down to his son Yeah, and it's like what Maubarak's plan was in Egypt and I think it's one of the reasons that the army didn't save him because The army is all in support of military dictatorships. That's a great deal for the army But when it turns into a monarchy, that's much worse for the army. Yeah, and so um and because you know not all dictatorships are the same flavor And so I think the chances of Command his son becoming the next Ayatollah are pretty slim at this point in time. That's pretty old as well No, he's not he's like in his 50s, I think and so I think he's not looking it's not good looking great for him But then you've got the um revolutionary guard. Yeah. Is that what they called? It's the Iraq one that the Republican yeah, then you've got the Republican guard and IRGC. Yeah, it's like the international part of it and They're very powerful and very well organized and they control a huge part of Iran And they've got their own secret police and their own apparatus and their own political movement everything And so my fear is that they're too powerful to be overthrown and that um what is actually going to happen is when they say that the Ayatollah is Unsavable like like Assad like it wasn't Syria. What the um Republican guard will do is they will say okay We agree with you like he's got to go. It's terrible inflation unemployment no water like Let us take over We will make everything safe for everyone and we will get this back on track Now that will be no real change at all because ultimately they are the apparatus of oppression And so that's my concern. That's the question is that's much to say get overthrown There's how are you going to get rid of the Republican 10 20,000 Republican guard and how many there are there's more There's 60 million plus people in Iran. There's a lot more Republican guard and Republican guard. There's got a lot of weapons and I think they're there's zealots and they're willing to do anything to hold on to power And um it's hard for me to say at this moment that They will be defeated The question is whether they do a quick slide of hand and they pretend to be on the side of the protesters Yeah, and they kind of pretend to flip that they're not flipping. They're going to retain power Generally the people that start revolutions are not the people that end up in power at the end of We've got to you have to admire the bravery of many led by women really for sure Iran is just it's just inspirational to say this is what real bravery is This is not the Rand Abdul for Tarz this world. This is actual bravery And this is the people who where are the people change? We haven't heard him making any comment. There's a bosom being killed by By zealots in Iran and no one's protesting in Australia for that surprisingly Well, there are a lot of Iranian money found its way into these protests in Australia Would be much more than I would have thought. Yeah, it's a tricky and now But like I suspect that that's one of if the Royal Commission really Digs deep I suspect they'll fund foreign funding in a lot of these protests But we know that foreign the Iranian was behind a lot of the company. Yes, but I think it got bombing I think though. I think my guess is my suspicion is It'll be Terrorist elements will have infiltrated those protests in a pretty material way would be my guess And um, and yeah, we can just hope that like You know Iran Iran flips and it becomes democratic You know, they're calling for the son of the king for making the Shah never show to come back I mean the Shah was not great news for the Iranian people either by the way like they didn't have it now They had a democracy briefly in the fifties their prime minister was a guy called Mossadeg Yeah, he was um he was effectively overthrown by the CIA in the English For nationalizing oil there's a Venezuela's crime as well. There's many other crimes. Right? But that was one of his crimes right like national like I think Exxonis has it's not to go back into Venezuela Because they're they like well, we've been nationalized twice For the hat trick right give us some garbage. I wish everyone still operates there, but anyway Yeah, but I think you know you don't make um governments happy when you nationalize their oil assets and their oil companies Um, but I don't know like that's real sovereign risk That's right. That's real sovereign. Yeah, so I mean, I agree through about Iran and Um, I think that's the biggest news story of the year at the moment. Yeah, barely reported. Yeah a little reporting here Generative barely reported unless this Jews killing people. It's not not relevant to the mainstream media The mainstream media continues to strays itself by the way So you take out the Australian and the news go even even the Australian boy hasn't given it I think the fin and the Australian were consistently good. Oh, I think on this topic the thing's been terrible Because it hasn't really covered Yeah, of course, I think it's not a super lettering narrative. Why don't the fin is not left wing No, but it's not I would certainly it's not I think it's centrist the fin That's how I say it. I think it's been good. The editors have been good and honest. I think it's been the coverage is excellent Data tutorials have been pro-western liberal democracy finally, but it wasn't for a long time. I don't agree with that Yeah, we have a disagreement on that Um, you know, and I think we certainly certainly the fact that nine papers of air back the court. There's image in the age They continued to come so they just run a cartoon forget the cartoon by a woman with a history of not very nice cartoons Because nobody I think that was I think People who made a fuss of that Stripes and that because nobody would have seen it. What do you know that's true? That was stupid I bet that's the constant editorial as you mean the age and the Sydney Morning Herald they have been advocating pretty hard for um a royal commission I don't believe but they're a lot of my surprise, but your your issue is their behaviour General for four years of the bond massacre. I agree with you from October 7th to the Bondi massacre They were deeply problematic. I agree with you about that entirely. We've got a super quick break back in a few moments back with some really great business stuff soon And my back idea you've got some I do business stuff for I do we don't sit out with the ambition of making this a political podcast But the world at the moment geopolitically it's actually crazy into links business and politics. It certainly does But it's impossible not to talk about this stuff at the moment Especially in Australia because like the Australian narrative today is a narrative where everything is really revolving around the social problems that we're suffering And businesses down the line from that and whether it's the consequences of lockdowns affecting um cities Yeah or work from home consequences or like social discohesion It is all flowing into business and and operating in the country Tell me about this industry. Tell me which industry I'm referring to here More than half of the Australian population is connected to this industry Kozema a customer COVID was good for this industry and it's been even better post-COVID it was an industry in decline That was bounced back by COVID and has continued the upper trajectory unlike retail Which you know who kind of dipped down in the post-COVID period this industry continued to strengthen post-COVID they have managed to Double their prices over about 20 years. So that's a faster rate than inflation obviously and they are subject To probably one of the harshest levels of government regulation of any industry despite there being at least 25 competitors fighting each other's insurance. Yes, it is a kind of insurance What insurance is it? Car insurance? No, car insurance is not regular. Yes private health insurance Private health insurance has to get government permission on the maximum price rise they can deliver Like each year. Yeah, and this is an industry that I think 15 million people have got some full of private health insurance in Australia 70% of all elective surgery is paid for by health insurance. That's interesting isn't it because 30% of people are paying for elective surgery out of their own pockets Yeah, which is I spent a fortune on private health insurance and get virtually over. I was in my legs covered five But that was and I had to call I should speak to poop, but it's a is my leg cover by it was like a half an hour Ridiculous conversations should take in 30 seconds incidentally. Well probably well and so private health insurance was on a very Like consistent decline. Yeah, people could go to get private health insurance. Yeah, and so I think When you look at the number of people that have hospital cover because you know come a lot of young people by extras covered Hospitals cover and it's like milk it for whatever it's worth. Yeah, but um, so the number of people with hospital cover is 48% or something like that But it was down to below 44% pre-COVID on it Look like the trajectory of a plane that had lost both of its engines and maybe it's wings and so um and so rebounded in COVID And now and they had to provide all of these rebates after COVID because nobody had surgery during because it was banned and We're now at what the private health insurance say is an inflection point and I'll just explain a little bit about how private health insurance works in Australia and then Why it's at an inflection point? So every other form of insurance rates you as an individual And says what is your level of risk and what level of premium do we need to charge you to offset that risk at a Like population driving yeah, if you're rating one rating two under 21 exactly driving one everyone tries to rate you Yep, your house like do we want to give you um, this insurance that insurance Is it using car in a garage sub-ebed you live in these are all um, these are all you live in Melbourne. You're gonna pay double the premium So these are exactly these are all characteristics that at the individual level are not necessarily predictive of anything But at the population level you can say that people have their cars in a wealthier suburb in a lock-up garage that are not in that are in Sydney They have a lower risk of they're having their car stolen. You got a parking Melbourne good luck. It's gonna be sure. I'm sure Private health insurance can not risk rate By law they cannot risk raise a shocking account if you are I if you are a smoker. Yeah, you do not pay a higher premium If you are if you've nothing there's no high-price stolen from every day as a result of this thanks to the thanks of this Well, we'll get to this you don't have to take out private health insurance You'll just can't hit with the stick if you don't so we'll come to that the carrot and the stick is the greatest incentive structure So the way that private health insurance works is you effectively pay a premium based on your age And so they're risk rating you at an age level. Yeah, and so someone who is 40 Who um and and the only risk rating that Exists is self-assessed if you want to take pregnancy cover. It's more expensive. Yeah, and so private health insurance would consider pregnancy a risk Because they'd have to pay more money if you get pregnant and so a 40 year old who Like smokes a pack a day Drinks a slab a day. Yeah, pays the same premium doesn't exercise doesn't exercise pays the same I want to give you a super fit healthy abstained from everything 40 year old provided they took the insurance at the same point Because if you get to 30 and you didn't have insurance consistently you get a levy. Yeah, throw lifetime health cover or something thrown on top of you That was a Howard government thing wasn't it? Yes, in case you think Well, that's not fair I'm young and I'm paying these premiums. You pay less than an older person an older person still pays more the premium goes up The young people subsidise older people in the system that is a fact and so every other system in Australia, but and so you might say I'm 35 and even I'm a high income earner. I don't want to take out private health insurance and subsidise older people The tax man will say that's fine We're just going to charge you $1500 a year for not having private health insurance as they as a it's not tax It's a levy on top of Young people give dollar people You can't afford a house. Well, still another 15 hundred bucks. Give you some old boy over there Yeah, it's what it actually happens So what we have to say is what happens if we don't do that But that levy that you get charged which which is up to $1500 that's on top of the medi-care levy Which isn't a tax a they're apparently it's just the levy you know why the medi-care levy is not a levy There's a reason that's not called it Because it will take the tax rate over 50% if it was tax. Yeah, but by being a levy We can say in Australia the tax rate is less than 50% at the top level So you could have this money just get given to Rand lab door for tarot the rider's festive. I'm not sure your medi-care levy goes to her It was all the same part Well, that's an interesting point. So I believe that the medi-care levy does not need to be spent on health It goes into general revenue like everything else And so you have to pay for the health somewhere else and make a difference And so this is how the private health system works and the reason it works like that Is because um the government can't afford to pay for health That's the bottom line. Yeah, the taxpayer is not to prepare to just stump up out of their own pocket as part of general revenue A large enough percentage of income to cover the health route needs and definitely you know older people once you pass Probably 70 you start getting very expensive to the health system the last 18 months of your life use almost all of your health Spend for your entire lifetime a broken hip can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars in hospital stays That's always the if you want to look at the top one of the top five most expensive Health insurance claims every year generally broken. Yep, that result in when I was in my league on in Canada or everybody else near was a broken hip. Yeah So that's very common um and so The problem that we've got is that before COVID the health insurance private health insurance was nose diving And it was and when we say private health insurance is facing an existential threat pre-COVID That means the health system is facing an existential threat because it massively subsidizes the public health system And um and if you can still use the public health system if you have private insurance You can try and hide it from them so you don't pay the excess. Yeah, but they want to know Because if you go to a public hospital and you go in as a private patient they get more money Yeah, what you might get in return is a private room Maybe and you can choose your own doctors. Yeah, but it's much better for a hospital to make sure they trigger your private health insurance Yeah, lots of people try to hide it. Yeah, I don't want to pay the excess. Yeah And so at the moment we had there was a big disaster in Australia Where the second largest owner of private hospitals health scope when I'm not when broke Brookfield yep the Canadians jack them up with heaps of debt with debt didn't work didn't work And so if you go and load up, I don't know like a regular business We had it for a time in Australia by the way Brookfield started well and then they brought multiplex and yeah That's true and so if you go and load up Multiplex with heaps of debt and it goes broke That's a headache and you lose a builder But um like the market will take care of it and fix the problem But if you go and run 37 or 39 private hospitals into administration and nobody can run them Then that is a much bigger problem for the country and that is where the country is at the moment And people are trying to figure out who's going to buy these hospitals, how are they going to run? They was talking about nationalizing the hospitals um, and so The way that private health new explain how these hospitals Who charge a fortune? Yeah, how are these hospitals go out of business? They spend more money than they make I mean, yeah, that's how yet because there are all sorts of other protocols but like um, I think Calvary is a Calvary Calvary Calvary is a Catholic sister The cat I was holding my ex-chairman who's probably the best chairman in the country run Gemini cars out. He's been sharing that for a long time. Yeah, we're sitting on the board and David first of all my foot runs it So that's been an incredible store, but how do these guys do so? Well, these guys do so badly doing the same thing Well, I think the answer is they might do the same at the operating level And then they have to fund all of these interest payments in debt. I think that's the answer Well, that's the case somebody then the debt gets wiped away and some but then easily to barge I think it hasn't been that easy so that's I just so this is why it's not easy So you're a pro you're running a private hospital And I come in as a private patient. Yeah, now you need to get paid Who's paying you a private insurer? Okay, that's obvious. How much are they paying you? That's not so obvious Because generally private health insurers they don't really want to pay Of course, they don't no one wants to pay if they're an insurer at the very least they want to have more control over how much they pay Doctors they want to charge as much as they can yeah, like that's like everyone private hospitals They want to charge as much as they can it's a business I mean clearly this was a business like it's a private equity owned and so you have this tension That exists with the patient in the middle all the patient wants is the best treatment. Yeah They also think I've paid private health insurance. I should get the best treatment And so you have this fundamental tension between Met doctors the hospital and the insurer And the way that that tension gets resolved in the US is that either They're called HMOs in the US either the HMO owns the hospital and the system The US is there's a lot of stuff or they make deals directly with the hospitals on what will be covered and how much they'll pay And the reason and I think the US spends on average 8 to 10 times yeah 8 to 10 dollars on the same service That in Australia for each one dollar in Australia and not and a worse quality of shocker. Yeah Yeah, I'm sorry. I think it makes a deal what's that and so we don't want to go down that road because that's a disaster And lots of people have no coverage for health in fact now with a barmer care I think my collapse. Well, there's still a huge gap So the thing in the US is it's good to be rich. Yeah, or very poor Then you'll be covered. Yeah, but if you're a bit poor or in the middle then your problems, right? And usually private health insurance is covered as part of the employer pain. It's great background of that As to why that happens it was happened after the war It was this whole thing. It was just it's actually a shocking situation But it started off as a reasonable payment for the employer But it shouldn't be employer shouldn't pay it's that's a huge issue Because if you're self-employed or if you're between jobs. Yeah, you're not insured It's just ridiculous. Yeah, and so and you know the employer could be paying tens of thousands of dollars a year like this is not a small expense and so in Australia there has been a move towards US style Actions I don't want to say structure but actions which is private health insurance insurers buying dental clinics Even hospitals and at the very least making deals with hospitals And the reason people don't like that is people say we don't want health insurers who are focused on making money And hospitals who are focused on making money Being the arbiters of what treatment you should and shouldn't be able to have And so this is where Australia finds itself now With 30 something hospitals in administration Which are pretty decent chunk of the hospital's inventory Yeah, and I think some big decisions are about to be made right now People are worried that there's going to be a huge A continued huge level of downgrading of private health insurance cover Which has been happening now that these rebates have disappeared post-COVID And um no one wants to think about paying for health It's boring yeah, and very expensive and what you think is We had a conversation probably six months ago people just want to live forever People just want to live longer and longer and just have there's somebody else pay for it and stuff like that's right And the other thing is when you think about government's paying for stuff Paying for boring stuff that you don't want to buy that's not exciting and no one wants to buy health insurance No one wants to buy hospital stays I you know every time every year that I've paid for private health insurance and haven't used it That's a good year okay, I might use the extras cover on glasses for my kids or whatever But like that's a good year And so nobody wants to think about their hard earned money Being sucked up into the vortex of an aging population With ever increasing more expensive treatments We get back why is it that health insurers can't Like the fact that I'm exercising every day and don't smoke don't drink Why should I be paying the same amount as some obese lazy person who never leaves the house Like what what is the basis for that makes absolutely no sense at all If you look at it from a business point of view If you were a car insurer you would say It's crazy that I have to charge the same amount of money For someone who drives whilst they're wearing a blindfold Compared to anyone else, fine But you have to think about the fundamental reason That the government likes private health insurance in Australia You know governments, they, governments lie a lot Especially like they, governments lie a lot about this They say they hate private education They love private education It offsets all the cost of the public system They say they hate private health insurance They couldn't have a health system with that private health insurance The reason the private health insurance exists like this Is this is the way that we can have a health system in Australia Because young people For older people I get the young and more young people do it If it was cheaper for a better way to say it is Healthy people Fun If they're sick people Yeah Unhealthy people get subsidized By healthy people Smokers get subsidized By non-smokers I get it But why is that the, how Because if you don't do that Then the healthy people stop paying Like if you stop paying No but if I stop paying If we're assuming demand is elastic If we're saying it's going to be cheaper for healthy people So mean you're paying less I'm more inclined to do it Versus the fact going down the road Who's more likely to die We charge them a force him to pay a levy then Charge them to do it Well the way that they solve that problem Because you're right There is a elasticity If the price gets too expensive People don't want to pay You guys have private health insurance or not I just got it because I turned 30 And I didn't want to pay the levy Yeah I don't, I'm not 30 at all Well then you got that I think you have to be 31 I turned 30 at all So this is the answer Would you have taken out private health insurance Without that penalty? No So this is how we deal with Price elasticity problems in private health insurance So price elasticity means you move the price You change demand And so Mike doesn't want to buy private health insurance And hopefully Mike you don't need Private health insurance And I advise you to go and claim whatever extras You can take extras cover or just hospital cover or what I got hospital and extras The main thing I want it for is dental Yeah, like that is the main thing I'm excited to use To finally like get a bunch of dental work on it Well, you should tell me which private insurance you sign up Just so I don't sign up to them Because they'll be out of business with your teeth Yeah Mike said the good I reckon Yeah but he said he's okay I held up on all this dental stuff So you know the Greens wanted to make dental free They wanted to put it out of Medicare I mean if dental goes on to Medicare No one's going to have any teeth No because no one can it's not going to be affordable right And so the thing is Mike doesn't want it So the government came along and said Well we better force Mike to have it Because if Mike doesn't have it Then like the 70-year-old with the hip problem Like how are we going to pay for them We need Mike to pay for them So they go and they say there's a penalty If you don't take out private health insurance And when you say why don't they make it cheaper Actually everybody needs it to be more expensive But I'm going to say why it should be more expensive for people who are high Because they won't take us We're in charge of more a higher levy What they'll do if you know but then they won't take it No if you force the levy they'll have Well then we get a higher levy out of them who can So you know It gets forced to say it's expensive If the levy was $10,000 No I understand what you're saying And you made it cheaper for the healthy people It covers it it just forces young healthy people to pay levy Let's say that person really should be paying $40,000 you know And let's say you made it $40,000 you So you know how there were tobacco wars going on at the moment Because cigarettes became so expensive That people kind of fought them anymore And so they go and buy illegally imported or manufactured cigarettes And then that gets owned by like the modern mafia And they go and blow each other up etc That's what happens when there's price elasticity And you exceed it And so you can't charge a very unhealthy older person $40,000 a year They'll just because they can't afford to pay it No if you force them to you can Which means how you're going to force them I thought you were going to force Mike pay $1,500 Just force the payment to hold that payment So it's Well it's not Oh you know I know that Yeah it's not So what I want to say is Mostly it's not fat people under the problem I'm just going to use blunt terminology We're worried about for sure But mostly the obese problem people are not the problem for the health system It's older people as they age right That's where the cost is And so you don't want to make people choose between Going to hospital or eating for example If you charge too much money They've got no money for food or shelter So there are limits to what are the most wealthy old people out there We've got a country that this is the old people And soak up all the wealth Those people are not the problem Because those people pay private health insurance The wealthy are not the problem The problem is the non-wealthy older people Who are being funded by the public system Like they The public system can fund them Because it doesn't have to fund A whole lot of other people That are being subsidized By young healthy privately insured people And so that's the perversity The public system and the private system Are inextricably intertwined in Australia But it doesn't really answer the question as to why we can't Maybe not that extreme But e-cup the pricing Let's say a healthy person, a healthy 45-year-old Should let's say a healthy 45-year-old should pay $2,000 And a healthy one should pay $8,000 Whatever it is Like there's a difference Make it more reflective of the risks Because there is different risks if you're healthy You become a higher burden As you get older If you're unhealthy when you're young I think we're going to carry answers To that might be This should be my guess about the answer to that question Because that's a good question You know, you can't just increase prices As a private health insurer The government has to go through that Which is And governments don't like doing that Because then people blame governments for pricing So for them to do that There had to be a big motivation And the big motivation is People blame governments for private health insurance Increases anyway So at least they're going to try and keep them down And I think the answer is Because every single person who's going to get hit With a huge premium Is going to blame the government for doing it And the government's going to be voted out That's my guess of why they try to cap the price increases And don't have risk-rated premiums But I do think That we are going to see a moment in Australia Where there's going to be a reckoning And we're going to have to rethink the way The healthcare system works in this country Because like all Western countries With generally aging populations It's not going to be sustainable And just one example to finish with is There's currently a debate about whether They should broaden the PBS Another form of government subsidy for medicine It's all the same bucket, right? Whether they should broaden the PBS For GLP1 It's the same pig To obese people Yeah And so you think they should broaden it to obese people Okay, so that is going to be an enormous expenditure Enormous And so where do we- Which doesn't save money in the back end Because people- Right, and so if it does You'll feel it in 10 years Yeah Minimum Yeah Maybe 30 And so where are you going to get that money from? Debt, right? Basically, it's just going to have to be more debt It's a bit of a volume thing The more you buy, you get it That's the part of the- All right, but you can't buy so much That it costs you less than buying none Yeah Like that's how economics works And so that will be more debt, right? Billions and billions and billions of dollars more debt Where's that money going to go to? Private drug companies in the US And in northern Europe, right? And nobody, yeah And so I'm expressing a few one way or the other What I'm saying is Everybody, as you said, wants to live forever And that maybe the caveat would be They want to live healthfully forever And they want someone else to pay for it Because they can't afford it And at some point in time, there's going to have to be some form of reckoning Absolutely Because the marginal increase in life expectancy Is very expensive And so And I know doctors in hospitals I can tell you this If your parent, let's say, or you, if you're an older listener Goes into hospital and you're over the age of 70 You'd better be advocating very hard Because doctors, it's not like they don't care about you But the way that they worry about treatment for you And nurses as well Is different to a 15-year-old that comes into hospital Because they have that mindset of Of course The value of this medical treatment should be connected to how much life we're lying And so, again, I don't know the answer to this It's very complicated It's somewhat playing god But there is going to be a reckoning in Australia If you look at the. We still have the best health I think the best balance of health system Anyway, look at US as bad for the reasons you explain The UK is even worse with the NHS Which is communist health system Well, the US is. Any help in the UK I've got multiple family members, like in-laws Who've been waiting for years and years to get What you get in Australia in a few months Like these are not life-threatening But it's like serious And significantly inhibiting life And a way of life And you can't get. You just can't get in So the communist system that I have in the UK UK is basically a socialist communist country now And even more so with the tax staff Well, that's definitely Because at least in the US You can say they're just extreme capitalism If you're rich, it's great health care In the UK everyone Forget it, you have terrible health care It's horrific in the back So you want to be the US You want to know if you're rich, you have great health care Well in most places, but probably in the UK Even if you're rich, you can't get rid of it That's why I used to say it's communist Because everyone gets to line up for what two potatoes together Exactly Let's go to super quick break one more time We're back in no time at all And we are back And we'll go into our one of our favourite segments The M&A Deep Dive, of course, brought to you by our friends At Terem Capital They acquire technology companies that grow sustainably over decades So if you're thinking of selling your business idea And you have many You'd obviously get on the phone to Scott at Terem Who will look at purchasing it So go to Terem.capital/contrarians We'll have Scott back on the show Hopefully in a few weeks He was a runaway hit last time We have that big temple and Webster episode That was great More popular than us That was great Obviously he's a low bar But Well at this time we want to talk about Costco One of my absolute favourite businesses globally We'll talk about it a little bit about Australian version of Costco Because AFR reported last week that despite intensifying competition From rivals including Woolworth's Coals and Audi The growth that Costco continued The members only US giant reported With Asick that had sales of 12.6 billion In the 12 months to August, up from 11.4 billion In the year before Profits at Costco, how much profit you reckon it made? I've got no idea what it's much Because most of its profits come from the membership fee That's 60 to 70% to come from them Because you know what, you know what margin, pretty much maintains a flat margin Across almost all its categories There's a few little exceptions As a growth level A growth level Kirkland's a little bit higher But generally it's the same margin Well, Woolworth's is high 20s So these guys will run lower, is that right? Yeah Half that 12 or 13? 15 15 Yeah And I think goes up to 18 for some Kirkland's up So profit at Costco, Australian business Which actually includes Taiwan as well But I think it's that big Rows from 270,000,000 to 389 million And of course this is the US business, probably is making more But the US giant, obviously known for its Kirkland This is how much of the profit it couldn't avoid paying tax on it Is that correct? Yeah It's known for its Kirkland things, your home brand And bulk packs of grocery upgrades 15 warehouses, has 13,000 staff in Australia Which is pretty massive Membership paid between 65 and 130 dollars a year for membership This is a doubly remarkable Given, when you reckon Costco have been open to Australia Ten years ago Yeah, 2009 So it's 16 years ago Yeah So by comparison, this is the most in tonight So worse last year, what can we worst generate in profits And we've always been around for About 89 years in Australia It's got heaps of stores 69 billion dollars in sales So this is what, seven times, roughly seven times Or six, seven times what Costco did How much do you reckon we'll always make net profit Three bill 953 million Really There was some underline, not only that I just went for five percent Yeah, no, it's less than that And Coles, which is everybody is raving about All the best businesses there They had 44 billion in sales So smaller than we're worse How much do you reckon they made? Well, I'm going to still go for my five percent Two 1.1 billion This is net There's always some stuff that goes in out So Costco, and it probably made more than three 80, probably made more Six, seven hundred, really This business is almost as profitable as these giants Generate four to seven times more revenue Do you think, what a business So Coles and when you say Woolworths, you mean just the supermarket business Because they spun off in deba So yeah And so Woolworths, but Woolworths has also got big double I think it includes BW Right So let's say that that's 69 I don't know what percentage is big double It's big W But there was 69 And what did you say Coles? It was like 44 or something Obviously Coles were separate from So let's just random that and say A hundred bill of grocery sales between those two Yeah, ballpark But BW and something like that So let's say a hundred just for a random amount And would you say Costco just did 12 You think that 12 has come You think it would have been a hundred You've got out of this well done, don't you? I know, but yes But do you think that like If Costco wasn't here And LD wasn't here And if we were still running this And LD must do similar to that I would have thought No idea how big that business is I would be the least frequent LD shop Because there's just not one that's very convenient to me And also I never really got into their You know replica their jupes, let's call it I don't go to LD but I continue what people do For sure They're free and vegetable Well, LD is 12 billion All right, so actually LD is standing going to Basically the same stuff All right, so this is my question to you Do you think If we assume that Coles were to do a hundred Forget about RGA for a second Do we think that if Costco and LD never came to us Australia, Coles and Woolworths would have done 125 You think this is just straight cannibalisation They're buying paper town and toilet paper Like they've got to buy it somewhere So are there people consuming more of this stuff Because I don't think it's that elastic Do you think that this Costco purchasing In bulk results in a lot of wastage I don't think so Because I think if Funny enough, when you The quiet, my favourite ever quiet episode One of the first ones, listen to it was the Costco episode It's the greatest podcast I've ever made And they talked a lot about this stuff Because they saw a lot of durable goods in the US Costco A lot of non-grossary stuff Yeah, but after they did that here as well So I don't wonder how much of their 12 billet is Yeah, and they obviously don't have a 10-year sale in the US Do they? Yeah, it's a big trouble business Really? In the billions Well, in the billions The single version of our choice case is the old school website But they do a really good job of it actually Do you know the classic Costco customer Can you sort of think what demo it would be? This is from the quiet episode I vaguely remember that they're wealthier Yeah, you know what I expect Because I think I'm cheating By vaguely remembering this episode Yeah, I have spaced They have spaced this all this stuff Exactly, so if you're not If you live in a tiny little apartment You can't store 300 rolls of toilet paper So you can't buy that So it's obviously you got an upfront cost Which is higher If you're buying 200 rolls of toilet paper You're paying less per roll But you're paying more upfront So you a Costco member? No, I'm not I do love the business problem Do you remember Michael Joel? No No All right No I've never been to one Me right Me not Yeah, I love the business problem Why are we not the target demographic Like none of the four of us in this room Because we're on a lot of different brands I think there's one in Marabin Where are the other ones Look I got Epping Marabin Ringwood R-Dear Yeah That sounds like me Yeah That feels like it's made for me It's designed for me A-R-D-E-E-R Yeah Those are all the It might sound like me But I'm almost certain it's not close to me So we're not in a city Because if you live in a city It's not Like there was one document It's like Walmart I mean, I'm not trying to compare to Walmart But Walmart, you know There's got Sam's company But they're far away From in a city centers Obviously living in a regional town It's close But yeah So for me If I had a Costco nearby I probably would go Yeah, I grew that But the closest in Marabin Which is It's not close It's closed Yes, closed I didn't know that It's closed about six months ago That's it, I wasn't But even the Docklands is Notionally close to me It's still a 20 minute drive I'm not going to drive 20 minutes It's just I imagine I'm not going to Docklands to Like it's so far Yeah, for you it's completely wasted Yeah, you'd be close to Marabin For sure Maybe, I don't know I think I'm I think I've had some of my relatives Some members So maybe I'll go with them And check it out Maybe you hit the classic way I just can't really be bothered Maybe Jim Sandagal's famous Quite, I'm not sure how true it is But when he handed it over to the currency Who's no more forget They've famously kept the hot dog price That's $50, he seems like not only four Who knows what you have to put in a hot dog To sell it for $1.50 Well, it's a loss later So it's where budding's got their hot dog Things are up and budding's in the charity I can't make balls Yeah, I can't make exactly the same I'm not sure which kind first I can make balls or the hot dog But the famous of Jim Sandagal said to the current guy And you need to make this out mark But he said to him If he changed the price of the hot dogs I'll f**k your you It was the classic comment that he made But this business And they talked about it on a quiet obviously But what the powers of this business Are unbelievable Yeah, they've got They've even got a bit of network in there But the scale benefits Because they've got so much scale And the home brand scale They can get Or the Kirkland brand scale They can get Kirkland's like one of the biggest Like if you look at Kirkland Which is their own stand alone They make everything Yeah, pretty much everything It's like And they're massive sort of Actual gold as well And the social effects Might be a tiny margin on that But this business is just Incredible They've just nailed the content And they make a decision Most of their money off the membership So which is recurring Essentially They make a bunch of money off the credit card Relations they have Because if you go to credit card I think it's JP Morgan Chase Sapphire card or something If they get You get a bigger discount as well So they then they get the points From when you use the credit card elsewhere So they're really now that ecosystem And it's just such a problem Why do you think so? In Australia West farmers tried masters Downs the disaster Yeah Woolworths has big W And so that whole format has been tried You know, there's like obviously There's came out and target as well There's like bulk alcohol shops Galore in Australia And different chains down Murphy on down Why do you think that none of these majors Ever tried to do a Costco equivalent in Australia Like why did Why was the market totally empty For Costco to come and do this I do find Australia a bit of a sleepy place Often Yeah It feels like There's a strange one It's been floating around the US For what how many years 50 years I guess I'll tell you I can give you one reason So Costco came in 2009 Yeah What do you reckon that share price was In 2009 It's in maybe what Oh you're gonna you're asking me 'Cause what it's done since Right Yeah I couldn't even come to Australia I couldn't even tell you What their market capital is How bad to tell you So no idea So share price now is Nine to a quarter thousand dollars a share Right In 2009 when you took When before that came to Australia 45 dollars a share It's actually ridiculous 20x in that time So it was 20 billion dollar business I think that people go Wasn't that bigger That had heard of Costco Wasn't that bigger business It's now 400 billion dollar business It is unbelievable How much is this is growing Yeah that's it Because you know People are very focused on the growth of tech and AI But the businesses have As a group That have delivered the best Multiple returns over the last 15 years You know they're not the tech and AI business But even yeah No but at the top end Like the best ones are Yeah But if you look at them As a group Yeah it's not tech that's been delivering that right And so I think this is a classic exam And we all might sound very well Not as well as Costco But it's a 20 bager In 15 years 20 bager 15 years I mean that's much better The most tech companies have delivered Unbelievable Yeah It's just and the businesses If you haven't listened to your quiet episode And you have like it's such a great listen If you want to understand And we a lot of what we I actually changed our Our Lux Plus subscription program After listening to that episode We basically changed the way we were going We were about to launch Lux Plus We were a few months away And we completely pivoted And now it's been an incredible success On the back of that pivot On the back of the cost If they actually joined the Costco model What are how many members do they have in Australia They say that How many members do you reckon Costco has in the US So they don't say Australia I've got They say they say global So you can sort of No you can't read that calculator But you can take a guess In the US Yes What if I said What if I started crazy But I feel like it might be conservative Yes Is 5% of the US population They're members That would be For instance 350 mil Is that many people in the US That's something like that So like let's say 15 mil 20 mil 60 mil yet Really Yeah And given this household That's actually incredible Yeah That's astonishing Yeah So it's very much mainstream in the US Yes Absolutely I've got a Step from Gemini on how many Australian members Do you want to have a guess And it's 80 million globally So it's less than 20 You've got a step for Gemini But what about if you got a citation For what it's saying It's from financial reports Okay So do you guys I'm going to guess What did it have reached 100,000 And it's must have reached 100,000 Easily Oh, 100,000 I'm going to say 200,000 I'll say 500,000 Okay, well I've got 1.5 million Oh, that's plausible Okay, yeah That's plausible Yeah, well we think US is US is a 12 top and stars of Australia So we're the same penetration We're 5 million Obviously we're not going to be the same We're the same penetration as US Well that makes sense So let's say it was one and a half mil And let's say the average fee was $100 Yeah, it's about right So it's $65,130 And so then what's interesting is Different tiers We get a bigger discount Yeah, if you got a heart yet And so they say their profit is $450,000 Well they say $36,000 I say more But let's say $600, right Yeah, that's probably really the poverty in Australia Once they start paying IP cost So whatever else And so what's interesting about that Is that means that the fee that they charge Is only a quarter of their profit in Australia It's not 9/10 of their profit We're in the US, it's like 60 or 65% of their money So maybe Yeah, it's interesting Maybe they get to run a bit of margins In Australia than they do in the US Yeah, maybe they're being asked Maybe they're not running a tax tax But they're paying full tax But even if that was the case Even if they're in 350 Yeah I mean, then it would be Let's say they stretched to 50% Of the profits Yeah, that could be right That could be right That could be right That could be right I still think I still think it's crazy That they really have no competitor Do you remember there were these things Back in the day cash and carry Yeah, Campbell's can carry You get a free meme If you're a, yeah If you're a whee, we start a business week all this way If you're a whee, if you're a whee, if you're a whee Or a whee, if you're a whee, if you're a whee That's right Yeah, I've some sort I had a little Campbell's cash carry card That's right So, when I was running youth movements Like, that's where we got stuff from And so, today, it was going to be like Today you'd have an ABN, right? If you have an ABN, you could be a whee And it was the same thing But because it was free I don't know, they're around anymore Are they all they saw? I don't know But like, because it was free They would still have to make Probably wasn't a great business Because they played They tried to play the low-marge And high-quality game It was exactly Costco, but without a membership Yeah When we go by like, we just run apartments And we'd buy like, Tour the paper, all that kind of stuff For the apartments And then we'd buy like 36 pack-up cariboules, like, oh wow I just leave on jesus desks And you'd be able to resist it So, that was it But yeah, you could eat And you'd buy like, whole thing of curl 36 curly whirlies, or whatever it was Which is the opposite to office works Because you can buy bulk goods at office works You just pay more than you pay anywhere else Exactly For calvians, right? Extremely stable business On the reverse But they tried you more for convenience Whereas, Costco's a bit inconvenience But you can buy in bulk But you get these like very low prices It just is, I keep coming back to it It's just astonishing to me in this country There are some big industries Maybe, maybe where the cost of capital is Maybe where the cap, the ca- the up front ca- ca- ca- ca- ca- high For like a Costco But like, these Woolworths and West Farmers Are constantly looking for ways to grow I mean, I would have thought this would have been a better bet I'm surprised one of those didn't Because- Well, West Farmers tried to- So, West Farmers has, I said West Farmers tried to Did Masters, but obviously they didn't West Farmers has Bunnings Woolworths did Masters And so- West Farmers did Bunnings in UK, that was that as our stuff That's right That's right So, Woolworths Woolworths spent all this money Trying to fight and be a second player In the hardware space Yeah Why did they not try to be- And in the big W space That's the second player that came up there as well Why did they not try to be the first player In the Costco space Yeah, it's a great question This is- and there might be a good reason to- But they're worried about cannibalising themselves to the grade But clearly- which was what Sam- Walmart did with Sam's Club, Sam's Club is- Essentially the Costco of Walmart So, being worried about a secondary business Cannibalising your primary business Is the road to having no primary business in my view Yeah And so- Well, that's still got primary businesses, my business is in fairness Which means they wouldn't have really cannibalised up with their secondary business Right, because there is a convenience of that- There's 25 billion dollars in sales They'd like to Audi and Costco But the Audi's very sensitive to their business Well, Audi might have been inevitable Because Audi- what your argument is They could have done an Audi model as well No, only here in the future as long I agree with you Actually, long-ot- Basically, this is a country that um- Loves- Jewel-police Or- or- Or low quantity oligopolies- Ah, job-police- And so what you have is you have- You have your opt-ass- Yes, and there you are- And look, you've got a phone that comes- All right, it's almost an oligopoly It's like a duopoly with another third player And so- Four banks Yeah, it's like a little- Like tight-knit oligopolies- Two or three electricity companies- Two airlines- Two airlines- Famously And so- um- And so what you have here is I think- Very large enterprises- With um- a high degree of complacency often- About um- Disrupting their own business models- And also it doesn't help that the average tenure of a public company- See how it's worth three years or so- Oh, a chemist warehouse, dude, as well, chemist- Well, chemist- Chemist warehouses- That's smart, like- That was- Well, that was- Not just copying, right? That was- Using a huge structural disadvantage as an impenetrable advantage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they- they- they can't- That's the classic cannabis- Chemist warehouses worth the same as- Like not a different value to- Yeah. Well, the goals are more worth- That's the unbelievable- I mean, if you're not getting a multiple- Correct. They might not really be worth that much. Yeah, yeah. But um- But- The thing about chemist warehouses- It- it has to grow now. Yeah. It's under pressure to grow. I mean, you can't run 60 times earning. You can't grow. Yeah. And um- And I think- Rather than- Not only of Woolworths and Coals missed that opportunity- There are a risk of chemist warehouses- Eventually becoming a competitor to them and moving more- Or is? A little bit, right? A little bit. They sell some like, um- Non-perishable gross- What happened to your- What happened to your cells? Like, it's. 10 to 15% of what the soup market sell- Chemist warehouses would sell, I reckon. Do you think so? I think how many oils are on a soup market? How many oils? I reckon a good- Oh, and a half chemist warehouse sell. Chemist warehouse sells- Oh, because what you're saying is- Not a fresh stuff obviously. All of the stuff on the shelves of chemist warehouses That are not behind the counter. Yeah. It's all over the counter sale. Yeah, let's call it. Um, that could all be sold by supermarkets. Absolutely. And he's- You're right. You're right. Plus, now chemist warehouses running some non-perishable groceries- Yeah. In one of their oils. Yeah. I think you're right. I don't- There's- I don't know. These businesses, um- There is a very good bit of research that people should be doing into. At what size of business and what structure do you become, um- Complacent and hesitant to disrupt yourself? Because that is what seems to happen with these- That's why the competition is a power. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Well, I think you're right. Woolworths and Coles missed all of those opportunities. Yeah. And if you look at that, there was- There was too busy firing a child out, but the thing at the sort of- The people leading these businesses- Well, you say they're fighting each other? Are they really fighting each other? Absolutely. One comes out with one thing- The other one comes out with the other- Whatever, like- But it's like all the care about- All it feels like all they care about is what little give away- When you get to get kids in the shop, it asks not the other one. But when you say they fight each other, They're not in a cage saying- Only one of them is going to emerge. They like slap each other gently- No, they look at- They look at there's $100 billion in market share- They're forgetting the Audi and the- Yeah, and they find out who gets the 4% that moves. Yeah, exactly. And they've fought the wrong- You're poor if they fought the wrong battle. They're too busy firing a child out and they've let the Audi in cause- And why isn't it- The other question is why isn't anyone ashamed on a trade of jobs? Which isn't- Yeah. I mean, by the other Audi family- There's two Audi brothers- And there's the U.S. while the U.S. trade- And so why hasn't- That's another great concept. I spoke to one of the sort of senior leaders who's now an Audi globally- And we said we should do a trade of jobs- I said I'm not positioned to this and he was going to be read of things. But I can't believe there's not a trade of jobs in the trade- You say Audi's got an element of trade of jobs with his home brand staff But trade of jobs is a small tie- Like they solve the paradox of choice. So they look like Costco, but a different sense- No membership. They do an unbelievable- And what I think Costco and trade of jobs both do really well- Is the surprise and delight. I suspect there's the- Costco has its famous treasure hunt- Well, you sort of- As you go through the aisle- Oh, well, it's something you weren't expecting to buy- You buy- Because it's special and they've got these great buyers. Another great thing about Costco- Just, well, what- So reason- Because they have so many less- One of the great benefits of Costco is less skews. I think I've got like 4,000 skews versus 50,000 skews in a Walmart. So they solve the paradox of choice. Instead of 20 varieties of toilet paper looking at that- They've got one or two. Kirkland and one other, maybe. So as a result, the buyers at Costco are super specialists. They understand that- The buyers of chocolate understand the price of caffeine- They've got cocoa every day- And they're working with supplies- And they have really great long-term supplier relationships- So they'll help suppliers when they're going stuff- And they'll- When they're going good, they'll- They'll- They'll both profit together. So they- It's a much more holistic- Very different business- To- To the supermarkets who really are put on the throw- To supply- So- I think a lot of the stuff Costco's done- Is an antithesis to what the Australian supermarkets do- And they've- I think they've- They've survived- And they've thrived- And they worth $400 billion now- Because they've thought- So differently to every other supermarkets in the world- But we can say that- But I'll say the flip side- So the- So this is- Costco has an advantage with suppliers- And also they have a disadvantage- Which we maybe can call the Amazon disadvantage- Even though this is- Pre-dates Amazon- The advantage is- Supermarkets in Australia are always trying to expand gross margins- So they're trying to pressure suppliers- Costco knows what they want their gross margin to be- And so they don't need to put- Supplies under constant pressure- They growth comes from volume growth- Predominantly- And this- Raculous- Onuity- Yes, but the flip side is- Their growth also comes from something else- Which is- Like- The reason I say it's Amazon is- This is the Amazon marketplace problem- Taking suppliers- That are doing really, really well- And creating their own version of that product- Amazon doesn't create their own version- They just kind of bring it in-house- Right? But- But every one of those Kirkland products- Would have been supplied by a third-party supplier- If it wasn't a home brand- But it is supply-buck- But they do use third-party suppliers- I know- It's brand-a- Kirkland- Same thing- That is the way- That is the only- The only place where they're squeezing margin- Is when they put their home brand over the top of it- And so that's where- Now Supermarkets do that as well- Obviously with their- Absolutely- And Kirkland- You would say Kirkland- Home brand has brand equity- Whereas- What words does not have brand equity in their Woolworth brand? I mean, there's not really- Little bit, but not as much- Kirkland- Ah, yeah, Kirkland's like- Yeah, Kirkland's like- Okay, love to brand- Yep- That's right- I think I've mentioned on the pop before- But you have a sole price- So- You didn't fan Costco if you had a price- Um, sole price club- Yeah- So, one of the greatest- Most legendary retailers ever- There was a great story they talked about on a quiet- About him- And, maybe, how Sam Walsen was famous for going into- Competitors with a note pad- Just copying him- Yeah- This is the size of the price- Taken copy- Like he copied everything- Copy the- How high they- Have things stacked up- What they're selling- They go in like- Right on the way- He's- Blatiny would copy- Probably one time- He went to a price- Price club- And he- And he was- Love price club- And he- And his sole price is genius- He- Quickly- Great at Costco in many ways- Costco- Costco can actually merge with price club- Yeah- Uh, the- The genius of Costco came from sole price- And Sam Walsen there- Taking like copious notes- The whole note pad of notes- Just copying off this price- Nothing- And he- He dropped it- He left it there- And someone- Oh no- Sorry- It's cute about confiscator- He said- You can't take it- You can't do this- Like confiscator- The thing- And Sam Walsen was- On a furious or whatever- And he gets- And he's up- And- Take it- And he's up in sole prices- Offers- And they go- In sole price- What's the use- He goes- This is Sam Walsen's- No pad- And he goes- Cook- Funds- Sam Walsen's number- Caused him up- Gives him back his note pad- Yeah- That's a great story- And why they're quite episode- So good- 'Cause it's such a great business- And the way they- The way they use scale- The way they use brand- The way they use network effects- And that- That- Effectly a nudy model- And giving the savings back to the customers- That's a customer-centric business- Or- I think Australia's- So markets do a pretty good job generally- Or in critical- And I think- For- As a customer experience- I- I do like Australia's- So markets- But- It's not the level of Costco- Now one of the interesting things about Cosmores today- Is- You do find different brands- In Cosmores- Like this- I mean it is frustrating- But ultimately- The best differentiation that these supermarkets- Can have probably- Is- Exclusive brands- To their supermarkets- And so- I've been going towards for a long time- Hmm- And- I still- I don't know, I still largely shop at wars- And when I go there- There's like a loaf of bread- Yeah- That I want that loaf of bread- Hmm- But that means that I can't buy this yoga that I want- That means I still have to go to Coles- Yeah- To find myself shopping at both of them- Yeah- And I think ultimately- Use online for one or not the other- Um- Yes, I might- Well, I- I vary- But- Remember I told you I used wars online- Because of that crazy- We paid $2 and you get $30 a month of- I- I'd do that, bro- No, I had to use that discount- I do- It is very complicated to use- Unnecessary- You have to go into the- Into the app is how I have to go- Find the code- The code is kind of the same every month- Just check it- I'll always forget, though- Yeah- Find the code- Then type that code at checkout- Into the Woolworths- Whatever you're buying- Woolworths on the app- I'd buy it on a lot- I'd buy it on the app- I'd buy it on the app- I'd buy it on the app- I'd buy it on PC- Yeah- But like, yes, you have to- It is clunky as hell- Yeah- Um- And so- Yes, I'd buy that- And sometimes I'd just go into a cause- But, um, I think that that is at least some differentiates- Yeah, like the main way that those supermarkets- Code- Compete is with suppliers, I think- Yeah- Where's the department store exclusive brand- Concept that've been running for many years- Yeah- That was a great episode- Guys, thank you- Oh, I hope we're- Oh, no, we're not being person next- Like, you're galavanting somewhere- And I'm- I'm- I'm rehabilitating- Will it be? I don't- I think- Fair will be back in person- Fair to age is a way- Yeah, I know- So you've been galavanting all summer- I don't mean galavanting again- Yes- That's true, but I- By fair will be back and then, um- Business will start again- Cause there's no feel to you that- Business is a bit- Slippey in Australia- Yeah- Like, when you try and say- Let's talk about a big deal- It's being done- I mean, there are a few like- That's like a- Like a Rio-Tinto thing that- Yeah, what's going on- Yeah, it's not- Rio, she- She always- Getting ripped off again, I'm sure- And boring- Yeah, exactly- I think that's pretty cool- Ah, so boring- Yeah, I'm bored- So I can't talk about that- You know the Glencore is going to just rip that face off Cause this is like the smartest one- It's the real- The real- It's the dumbest that Rio-Tinto is- So it's- And so people talk about that- And like- There's not much else happening- It feels like the whole of business- Or Australia just goes away- Or Australia just goes away- Yeah, exactly, just goes away- Obviously we're back at luxury shows- This is our first- My first day in the office- And so it was away- And I was- Very pleasant surprise here- Which is pumping when I walked in- The only people in your car park were people in luxury escapes- Yeah, and it's a good life in Australia- You know, the trick to life is- Find a place where you can dig a hole- And sell what comes out to China- And everything else gets a lot easier- And I'll ask us anything episode-