Cost-Benefit Analysis of Informal Caregiving to a Parent, with Eric Lim, Somnus Sleep Wellness

Hey guys and welcome back to the building financial fitness podcast. Our topic today is about the cost-benefit analysis of informal caregiving to a parent and we have back with us Eric again. Welcome back. Thank you, Janice, for having me back. Thank you so much and at last time you were on we were talking about sleep but I think another aspect of you that a lot of people know about is that you are a caregiver to your parents at a very young age. So I really wanted to tap on your experience being such a young caregiver and also really looking at the cost-benefit analysis of being an informal caregiver. And the reason why when I talk about the causes because the monetary value of the time that informal care givers in Singapore spend looking after seniors above 75 comes up to around 1.28 billion annually which is equivalent to 11% of the health care spend. So that is actually significant and goes unseen because what realistically happens is that usually when adult children come to be of caregiving age usually they are again the caregiving later than your experience which we will talk about later. I have actually had conversations with people who have quit their full-time jobs to take care of their parents. Sometimes in more extreme cases they would actually change their accommodation. So they will move out of maybe a calendar property and they would move to a HDP to avail the max of the caregiving grants because when it comes to caregiving for a parent especially as we get older there's more of a chronic disease burden and there's a lot of costs that you know sometimes they didn't account for. These costs can mount and thus grants actually coming very handy when it comes to subsidising the cost of care. But before we go into like the cost-benefit analysis and how you actually wait at can you tell us a little bit more about your caregiving journey? Wow how do I start? What age were you when you had to first come into it? I was 24 when I first became a care giver for my dad. So I recalled my mom actually caught me one afternoon and she said "Hey you know everybody come home now" and that was when I was like "Huh what happened?" So she told me that my dad fainted and avoid that. So I was very worried, rushed home and realised that my dad wasn't in such a good shape. Rushing to the hospital, waited for a few hours and finally the doctor came out and he said "Every your dad suffered a stroke." I think that was the time that I realised I'm no longer just his son. I am now taken on a different role and that's paying his care giver eventually for the next six plus years. At that age was your father financial contributor the household? At that point in time he had already retired. So when I was 24 I was actually in my final year in university so I did psychology and at that point he was really resting at home like retired not working anymore. And when that happened in that six years how has planning for finances changed in the family, managing costs was going to provide what are the things that somebody needs to sacrifice? For me when I first became a care giver I was a student and being a student got no income. And I think that's when I'm very thankful for my brothers when they chip in financially to support because there were a lot of unforeseen costs when it comes to care giving. So being not able to food the bill I supported in the way that I knew how, which is to give my time. So I gave my time, I would bring my dad for his medical checkups, I'll bring him for his official appointments for him to really rehabilitate himself after the first stroke. I think across the years he developed not just one stroke but a total of three strokes and then subsequently vascular dementia. And I think as the years went by the cost also went up because when he became increasingly less mobile it was no longer as easy as taking the bus. And that's where I find that in the later years I had to arrange for a ambulance to actually transfer him from a house to the hospital itself. And it's not just one way, it's two way where I go in there and coming back and everything adds up. How much was that? There's just to give us a little idea of like the cost of one return trip for ambulance because we're not talking about grab now. Yeah, I think cannot go on grab. Yes, cannot go on grab. The reason why we had to use that is because of his condition. At the latest stages, he could not sit on a wheelchair anymore. It was very tough, right? So they had to use like a cord stretcher. And that's where he needed the full length of the vehicle itself. I believe the cost was about 90, I can't remember. For a return trip. I think so. Yeah, maybe more. I can't really remember, but I knew it was not cheap at all. Yes, given that it's not just like a once a month thing. So every trip adds up. And you being a young caregiver in your final year in university, how did that impact actually the jobs that you look for post graduation? Because you also want to be as present as possible. And I think that that is actually one of the very central struggles for caregivers because you really are trying to balance those two things. And in those years, there wasn't really the concept of work from home. I know work from home has been really amazing for mothers where they can be very effective at what they do and still be present at home. Because I think a lot of caregiving is not necessarily that you're doing everything, doing something every minute, but the fact that you just need to be there, just in case something happens. Yes. And I think that was exactly why I experienced to have that physical presence. Even though I may not be doing all the caregiving per se like 24/7, but I feel like that physical presence helps a lot in terms of giving my dad that sense of safety and security, knowing that he has someone to rely on. And he doesn't need to feel alone and afraid as he's going through this very uncertain times, you know, as his condition changed across the years. For me, when I first graduated, I actually was very thankful that my professor in my final year, which was also the module that changed my life. I taught this module called my full psychology in my final year. And my professor, Dr. Gregor Langhee, he actually introduced me to a mental health charity in Singapore, a brown center. And that was when I applied for it and I got the job because really happy because it was really the organisation, mission that resonated with me. I believe it was to promote happy and healthy living. And at that point in time, I felt like that was what I needed the most. Yes. You know, to come manage. It feeds your job, it feeds into your life, it nourishes you, and it works both ways. So it's good. Yeah. And I'm very thankful for that because, you know, as my dad's condition changed across the years, he became more reliant on us, on me. And I remember there was a time where he was hospitalised, and that's where he was actually warded in the same hospital that I was working in. So the charity that I was working at was actually based in a community hospital. I would just find myself taking the lift up and visit him during lunch time. And I'm very thankful to my boss who was very understanding, to give me that flexibility and also to have that empathy and compassion to support. I'm pleased that myself to do my job while not missing out on giving the quality care to people that met us to us. My case, my dad. Yes. And in your care, giving journey were there strategies that you're formulated so that people can be more cost effective about caregiving. Was there anything that's like that? Any strategies. I think for me was to try to like having a care giver support group is helpful. Yeah, to understand like what other care givers are going through. I remember for my dad, we had to purchase like the adult diapers for him, right? And it's something that he has to use and change multiple times in a day. And the cost adds up. So I think like learning and understanding nowhere to fellow caregiver source all this supplies from has been really helpful and buying in bulk helps a lot like group by yes. It helps to reduce the cost as well as compared to just by one by one. I remember here to drink this milk the ancient milk to boost his protein intake and nutrition. I think my understanding all this find what's a more cost effective way to manage it all has been really helpful. And I also really thankful for some of the grants that the government provides as well to offset some of the costs. I think Singaporeans were very fortunate because there's a lot of support for not just seniors but also care givers. So there's like the care givers support grounds, but there's also a lot of groups that actually help. Could be the Singapore Cancer Society, could be like the dementia association. There's a lot of support and resources that's available. But I do think that the challenge is for caregivers, especially if you're in a state of high stress, sleeplessness and all that kind of things is maybe very difficult to navigate. So there are also people who are like social workers in the system where they actually understand your situation. They take it on as a case and they help you navigate and point you to the right doors. Yes. And I feel like it is very important to not just have that financial support, but also to have that social and emotional support. And what that means is also learning skills, right? Equipping care givers with skills to navigate this journey. How can we stay emotionally stable, right? So that we can give our very best or loved ones. And I think for me when my dad was having vascular dementia, what happened was he had this orientation today and night, which makes it very tough for me to slip throughout the night. And that was when I experienced sleepless nights. I used to take my sleep for granted. You know, I expect that my head hit the pillow or fall asleep just like that. But that changed when I that had dementia because I was always worried for him. What is something happens during the night? So I'll always in this very constant high alert kind of state. Yes. Right. It's something going to go wrong. And I think that's where I feel like equipping care givers with the skills to manage their sleep better or rather to manage the stresses, especially like the ruminative thoughts, the anxious thoughts that come up in the night itself. That's really important. And that's something I'm really committed to do. In fact, I'm currently in the process of writing a book. Yes. I know. It tells us a little bit more about that. So this is very born out from my experience caring for my dad and I feel like care givers need someone to care for them as well. So I'm writing this book called Nuturing the Nuturer, the art of caring without losing yourself. I find that helping people to navigate this journey is really important, because I felt quite alone back then. It's actually okay to ask for help. Yes. Sometimes I think in our Asian society, we might use this word if you're a bit pice to ask for help, right? You know what? What other thing of us? How are people judge us? But I feel like when I don't ask for help, if I don't share with vulnerability, I'm not going to get the support and it can feel very lonely journey when it really shouldn't be. We start all saying the cause benefit analysis because when it comes to the benefit of being a caregiver, I personally feel from what I see from your journey, we can't bring back lost time. Sometimes I would say it's an honor to take care to be there for the people who have brought you up. That's why when I speak to people who actually give up their jobs and they make certain financial sacrifices to be there with their loved ones, it's not a financial benefit, but it is something that you simply feel that you have to do because just looking back, you can't unwind the clock and say, "Oh, I wish I was there for a person." I don't think people say that, "Oh, you know, I could have earned that much more money if I wasn't taking care of this person." I think that has been my experience because I guess working a mental health charity is different from working in a private sector, where the place is a lot quicker, where there's a lot more demand. Not to say that in a charity that isn't there still a lot, but I feel like what I value at that point in time, what really matters to me was actually having that flexibility, right, to be there for my dad, to be able to tell my boss to say that, "Hey, no, I need to bring him for his medical appointment." And they were like, "Yeah, please do that." And I think that was really important to me because, as you rightly pointed out, it's very hard to put a price tag on the time that we spend with our loved ones, especially when they need us the most. Right, so I feel like in the first nine plus years of my life, my heart is full. I know that I did what I could, and I don't regret it at all. I love that. And I guess for listeners who find out more about what he do, and also the upcoming book, "Where can they find out about that?" Can find me on LinkedIn? Okay. Yeah, can search like Eric Lim, Sleep, maybe I probably see the first one that pops up. But otherwise, can find me on the website www.sumnesswellness.com. Cool. And when is the book coming out? It is going to be probably December 20-25 by Pengrid. Okay. Exciting. Exciting. Okay. But thank you so much, Eric, for being on. And I think a lot of listeners will benefit from the work that you do. And I think that, and sleeplessness, it seems to be almost like a sleep epidemic. Thank you for coming on to share about what you know about sleep as well as caregiving, which often leads to sleep plus nights. And thank you so much for sharing about that. Thank you, Jonas. Yeah, I just want to add on that. This journey doesn't have to be a lonely one. And we don't need to suffer alone. Lean into ourselves and lean into the people around us, because people are more willing to help than you expect. Yes, especially when they have gone through the same path themselves, you often find a lot of comfort in knowing that people have walked through the path and knowing how they dealt with it has been especially helpful. Exactly. Thank you so much, Eric. Thank you so much for having me. Appreciate you. Thank you. Many thanks as well to all of you out there for tuning in. This has been a fantastic conversation, and we would definitely love to hear what you think about it. If you would like to get in touch with us, you can reach out to us through the email podcasts at me listen.sg or at my Instagram @misfitfire. Aside from that, if you enjoy what you're listening to and what to hear more, please help to spread and grow the show by subscribing on me listen or Apple podcast or by following on Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Finally, the building financial fitness podcast is an original production from MediaCorp and recorded at Skate Live Studios The Pod powered by Audio Technica and City Music. Episode production is done by Junus U with editing and support by Danny Cordy and Gareth Fernandez. Once again, I'm your host and BFF, Junus U. Until the next time. [BLANK_AUDIO]