Convicted Drug Smuggler On Surviving The DEADLIEST Prison In The Middle East

I said I need to speak with the American Embassy. Embassy can't help you. We're gonna hang you after five o'clock prayer. Then they bring me over and they hook me up and start turning up the electricity. And they hang me up like a punching bag and go rocky on me, so I only know paying. Kassori in Pakistan is the size of a closet. The only time you see light is when they feed you one time a day, and also when it's your turn to be brought out, they have the bottom of your feet beaten. You have to fight the guards, otherwise you will starve to death. I see another enemy that's good kill, they watch people get hung, I watch people get stoned, I watch a guy get lit on fire. I had a hit on me one day where I had three knives sticking out of me and I had a guy underneath me who was popping his eye out. So I snapped his neck. It haunts me every day, I went to jail for a crime and I didn't commit and I came out of murder. Erika Day is an actor and Hollywood stuntman from Los Angeles, California. In 2002, he was accused of attempting to smuggle heroin through an airport in Pakistan and sentenced to death. He spent three years on death row inside of the largest maximum security prison in Pakistan, where he survived insane prison riots, was forced to kill multiple inmates who were trying to kill him, and witnessed one by one as his friends got executed by hanging. Erika assumed he was next to be executed, but by the grace of God he was able to prove his innocence before a Pakistani judge and was given his freedom in 2005. Today, Erika is still working as a busy actor and has written a best-selling book about his experience called Three Years in Pakistan, the Erika Day Story, which I highly recommend you check out. A link to that will be in the description of the episode. Ladies and gentlemen, this is one of the all-time great interviews on this channel. It's Erika Day, right here on the connect with Johnny Mitchell. What's up everybody? This week's episode is a certified banger. So make sure you're subscribed to the channel, hit that little alert bell. And if you love the interview, drop a comment and hit the like button. It helps us out so much. All right, let's do this. People want to be entertained, you know, regardless of how it is. It's just, it's a definite evolution. I think the sag is dying. Sag is, you know, people, there's no reason for people to join sag anymore. And so also they don't have anyone's back. Like I did a movie last year where they fired me because I was not saying yes to a lot of stunts. They wanted to have a baby tackled in the hands of the actors who was only six months old. And that was like, yeah, we're not doing that. And the director was like, the mom, the parents are okay with them. Like, I'm not okay with that. Yeah, actual, an actual baby, an actual baby. And it was like a demon movie where the girl's crazy. She's like, she's being scapegoated by the nanny, who's the demon. She knows that the mom knows it, but like, they didn't, you know, but she's going to get the baby. She's got a knife and the knife is plastic. But still she's, I was like, let's try it with the doll, right. And then she like grabs the doll by the arm. And I'm like, that's why we're rehearsing with the doll. Yeah, I was like, no, let's pick it up. Like, it's a real baby, okay, both hands over here when you yell don't yell on the baby's ear. Let's get it right here. Okay, it's got babies here. They're like, this is, I was the only one in the room that was like, when I'm a stunt coordinator movie, I got to be everyone's dad regardless. I want everyone to go home safe and everything else. And I'd rather, if I'm wrong, I'd rather like, hey, let's just figure out a safer way to do it. So they fired me because few things that was the baby. I wouldn't let the baby get tackled. And I said, we'll hand it off to the, to the father. And which is what we did in the cops come and tackle the girl and go, that's, it's fine, it works, right? And that's safe. Then they wanted me to have a 70 year old woman get bum rush the last second. Like, they're telling me at this with the last second, I'm like, no, that's what doubles are for. I don't want her to get booked. But I'm rush, she's a frail, she's an old lady. Of course, she doesn't want to say no, she's an actor. So she doesn't get that many opportunities. So it's my job to stand up and stand up and people. So I came up with another scenario where we're going to tackle her onto the bed. So it's a little cushiony. And then the girl puts this arrange in her neck. And I worked them out so it's safe, but it still looks good and it works. And finally, the final straw was I had a strong performer who was getting beat up by an invisible demon. But we were filming in like a 300 year old home. And so there was a lot of like low hanging ceiling, sharp edges, real wood, metal, I know. And so when he came in and rehearsed to so I could see what he was going to do, I told him, pace yourself, because he was young. So he didn't know any better. I said, we're going to do this like six, seven times. You're going to get tired. That's just experience. So he comes in, he does it crazy. He went 100%. I told him to go 15%. But he went 100%. And he was like, I was like, you're dumb ass, all right. So when we do it, I want you to do it like half that. And then here's their director going, no, that's exactly what I want. And she don't know any better. But well, I'll take one. He's about to come in. The door was not all the way to the wall. Like we did on the rehearsal, it was now out. And this is a very thick, unforgiving door with all this sharp metal on it. So I said, stop. Go back to one. I opened the door wider. And then she's like, you don't call me. I'm like, this is exactly what I do. I ignored her because she's an idiot. She doesn't know anything. I said, go back to one. Action. When it comes to stunts, it's my job for safety, right? Because that's my name. Oh, so is that so is that also part of as a stunt man? Are you also allowed to do that? Are you also allowed to safety? Absolutely. Because we're the ones who know it. It's my name on the insurance. It's not theirs. So someone gets hurt. No one ever says, hey, who is directing? They always say who is stunt coordinating? Ah, okay. So you're a coordinator as well as a stunt actor. Okay. Do you have rank? Are you able to. When it comes to safety, yes. Oh, okay. When it comes to safety, I absolutely have rank. If a stunt coordinator is telling you to stop, we're stopping. Because it's safety. Yeah. You know, some of the directors will get people killed. And they have. Yeah. They don't care. All directors care about it. Like Michael Bay got a guy killed and some other director went to jail for doing a shot on a train track. I think in Chicago, that they didn't have permits for it. And the train hit a hospital gurney and it killed, I think, a PA. Oh, my God. But, you know, that's why you got stunt coordinators there to say no. I say no all the time. I say it. But I come up with options that you can use that will work. Right. Director's life. Just hit them in the face. No, we're not gonna hit them in the face. All directors want us to shot. Yeah. They don't give a shit. No, you don't hit them in the face. We're not going to move the camera. We're going to react to it. We're not curing cancer. We're doing make believe. There's no reason for anyone to get hurt ever. Stunk guys are there in case worst case scenario. People are like, oh, you guys are tough. No, stunt guys are vulnerable to their humans. We don't want to get, you know, we're not punching bags and we're not expendable. Even though sometimes people say we are, you know, we come up with ways to sell the shot. That's all it is. Like, we'll do some crazy stuff. We'll push the envelope. But we're not there to just get your punching bag. Well, Brandon Lee, that's the most famous example, right? No way. That wasn't bad. No, I'm sorry. Fucking. Well, Brandon Lee got killed on the crow. Yeah. And that was just a whole really bad coincidence stuff. That was also people cutting corners. That was what they had done is taken that gun for insert shots, but they went to the pawn shop, a real pawn shop to find bullets and they emptied the bullets and they put it. So they had real bullet casings, but they filled them up so that they would have the blanks. And they wanted the insert shot of like the shooting. Well, one of the bullets got mixed in with the real bullet. And even though they had redone it, someone put powder in there. And so when the bullet shot, they when they were doing the insert shots, they were like, what was that? And they were looking everywhere because they heard an actual shot. They shouldn't have, they shouldn't have been shot at all. Well, the powder inside a blank still pushed out a real bullet, but the bullet got wedged in the gun. So this whole time, the gun still had a bullet in the barrel. So when they used that gun for the scene to shoot him, the blank pushed out the real bullet in the end. That was stuck there. That's why nowadays they take off the light down the barrel, the guns to show you. And they should. And everyone's like, Oh, it's repetitive. Everything else. But it would have saved Brandon Lee's life. Well, would have saved that the lady who got waxed on the set of the Baldwin movie. Also, yeah. He's a dipshit for he's a dipshit for how that happened in as well because he thinks he should be criminally liable. 100%. He was a producer. And also he's also been the business 50 plus years. He knows better. Right. So he was probably an asshole on set. Like no one talked to me. No one told me anything. Let's just do this. What I'm going to do. Right. When I got a gun, you don't ever point it at the other person. You always go off just a little bit. Always. And even on screen. Yes. Like, if I'm shooting at the camera, that's one thing. But because accidents happen, there was a music video was in Australia, but the guy had a shotgun and he was leaning on it in the dirt. And it had blanks in it. But all the debris went back into the barrel because dipshit was pointed into the dirt and leaning on it. So when he shot someone, the blank pushed out all the rocks and everything and killed somebody. Oh my god. There's a stupidity. Yeah. So that was stupidity, too, because that wasn't the first live fire on that show. It's the fourth live fire. There shouldn't have been one little less four. Yeah. And the stunt coordinator was Alan graph. Alan graph knows better, but he wasn't there on set at all. And so it was a really bad chain of command that girl, her dad's a great armor. She got the job because of nepotism and because we want to fill the job with women. And all that stuff. She had no business being there. Everyone's like, oh, her dad's great. Cool. Hey, I got brought. My brother, one of my brothers played baseball in the majors. Does that mean I should be on the field in the majors? No, I suck at baseball. Right. But just because your dad was great. Doesn't mean you're great. So yeah, you really do have to have the discipline of kind of a military person because that's what it is. It's, it's just doing the same thing every time it's having systems. Yeah. They're there for a reason. Yeah. And when you start to get lacks like for whatever reason that girl was allowing the actors to go and shoot real guns on their time off, yeah, I heard that. That's why there were three previous live fires. So there was already slapping this on that set. Right. They didn't have, they had one, two, three examples to fix that problem. And then you've got Alec Baldwin, who obviously is his own guy and does whatever he wants. Yeah. Going and doing a scene without the stunt coordinator there, it's first off the guy who took the gun. Shouldn't have been able to do it. Should have gone from the armor to the actor after she did the whole here. Look down the barrel. Ta-da-da-da-da-da-da. You know, empty it. Just to make sure. Oh, so they shoot it till it's empty. I do. Okay. I do. Everyone does things different. but there's a million ways to get to the number 10. I've watched so many people do things differently when I get on set, I'll be like, "That's not how I would do it, but it works." And there's a thing that there's a saying. If it's stupid and it works, it's not stupid. But I will go even on Airsoft guns. Here's seats, Airsoft gun. Look, there's no reason not to. It takes two seconds to do it. And it's just everyone wants to see it. Everyone should have that right too. And let's go film this scene. - What's your last name? - Odd day. - What is that? - What is that? - French. - Yeah, like a very odd day. - Yeah, odd day. - How do you know Vincent Vargas? - I know Vincent because he, I just have done his podcast a couple of times. We're kind of in the same space. We do this narco kind of, he does more, he just focuses on like narco shit going on in Mexico and law enforcement and stuff like that. So we, I talked to people of all different criminal, not just criminal backgrounds, but have then have crazy stories about criminality and incarceration, and we've been down to Mexico quite a bit. We've had some real cartel guys on the podcast. So he reaches out from my expert opinion, which of course I'm not, but I do know a shit load now, just in the course of doing this show about international drug trafficking and narcos and cartels in Mexico. - Did they ever share with you what their ways of getting drugs across are? - Dude, absolutely. This last guy, a couple about a month and a half, two months ago. He's a fat, fat, mass guy. He, yeah, he broke it down to me in the most illuminating way. And I'm like, oh, that may, I feel like I finally know how cartels work after just having him on. And it's really nothing, it's nothing mysterious, it's cargo, it's freight, it's logistics, and just odds. That's all it is, you know, he, a trucking company. That's why you see all these Indians and these Pakistanis, speaking of Pakistanis, getting arrested because they're the ones who own these huge trucking companies in America. It's a lot of Indians, right? The owner of the company is in on it. Sometimes the drivers are, sometimes not. So they got a lot of dupe drivers in there. - They got dupe drivers. - They, I believe, they get, and then you've got our friend who's been on the show. He's got a crew of distributors. He's Mexican, he grew up with affiliations with the Cinaloa cartel, right? Grue, grew up in Mexico, but he lives here now. And his partner is still in Mexico. They've got their sources in Colombia, who get it to Mexico. That's not other business, how they get it there, submarine. Maybe it's sent to Panama and then driven overland. Whatever it is, they've got their Mexico price. Boom, he gets a call from his partner. Hey, we got a load of 2,000 bricks to say it's like Colima, which is south of Polisco, I think. Yeah, so, and then he calls up the owner of the trucking company. That guy dispatches to, could be a woman that lives in Iowa. Hey, we've got a load down in Colima. You know, we've got some cargo. This is the rate that will pay you blah, blah, blah. She just takes one of the trucks. All the way down into Mexico. They have drivers from Canada to go all the way down into Mexico, pick the load up from the port and drive that bitch over the border. It's crazy. Then they got stash houses in Los Angeles. Yeah, how many of them are getting caught though? I mean, the ones are getting caught. Probably not as many as the ones who get through. Not even close. It's like, I asked him when's the last time he got a load intercepted. He couldn't even remember. So it's amazing. Yeah, yeah, it's probably also going to checkpoints for those guys around the take as well. Some of them, for sure, some of them, you know, but I don't think the drivers get a lot of time because they do a plausible deniability. So because again, they just got the ticket, they're truck drivers. They take it in NAFTA. You can take, there's so much freight, legal freight that's going from Mexico into the US and Canada every day. Like, hey, they just got a bill. They're charging for their time. They just went and picked up a load. So a lot of these US attorneys, they don't want to risk like going to trial. So they'll just say, okay, sign for three years, right? So they just take a quick federal bit in like a camp or whatever. And, you know, they get, but if they make it through, it's $80,000. $80,000 is a three years of your life. I know. I know. You know, that's not a good deal, but it's not a good deal. But for people who don't make a lot of money, they think 80 grants a lot of money, right? I guess. So, but yeah, you know, and the, yeah. So that's how cocaine smuggling into the US and of course fentanyl and all that other shit, you know, heroin, meth, that's how it all basically all makes it in. DHL from Puerto Rico, right, they put it in boxes, you know, that's maybe 10% of it. But it's, it's not a glamorous, you know, it's not some James Bond kind of thing. You would think like all the drug sniffing dogs and all the, you know, people that they have and, you know, but yeah, things got to get through as quick as possible. So, you sure stuff gets by all the time about. Yeah. And sometimes they, sometimes drivers, especially young Mexicans, they're offered, hey, will you allow a small load to get caught? You'll do a couple of years. I guess that happens too. So that it opens up the, the, all the attentions on that little load, all the big loads get through. Yeah, yeah. That's made you'll do a couple of years, but we'll pay you 50 grand. You know, and 50 grand to a poor Mexican is sort of a lot of money. Oh, I get it. Mexico's not doing that well to where people do it for the family or whatever, so when he's a surgery. Yeah. More sinisterly, I've heard from a journalist that they're now kidnapping people and making them do it, which I hope isn't true. Oh, no, that's, that's just true, for sure. I feel bad for the people who, like there was a woman who, there was a story read where a woman was working in Mexico, but coming back and as soon as she got off work, she went to a mechanic to get her oil change and some stuff. And then they were like, oh, you got a problem. And they saw underneath her car a welded fake compartment that all these drugs in it. So she turned herself into the cops saying, hey, and they deemed her a dupe because clearly, she's the one turning it in. But what it would have happened had she been caught at the border. You know, it would have been her word against and there were no one's ever guilty. But that they don't give a shit. Like drugs and mugglers are shameless. They'll get their product across anyway. They can't keep in somebody in the dark. They don't draw a suspicion to themselves. And also they can make a lot of money. Now, Nigerians are the worst drug smugglers ever. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of other people, but I single handedly got to hang out with these guys and everyone wanted an American drug smuggler. Everyone. So these guys are like, oh, yeah, we know how to get the drugs across no problem. Oh, yeah, but you're in jail telling me this. So why, sure, tell me what you would do. This is what you do. You go and you find a ugly woman and they're serious. You make our father in love with you. And then you say you come back with my country and treat you like a queen. And then you smuggled drugs in her suitcase. She gets caught, I don't know, this bitch fuck off. And that's fucked up. These guys will do that. They'll go find a girl and then they'll say, I'm going to bring you back to my country. I'm going to make you, you know, I'll give you a happy life. And these girls just want love. And then they get caught with these drugs. And guys like, I don't even know this girl, whatever. The worst thing I ever, ever heard and always from the Nigerians was they'll go to families with lots of kids and say, hey, I can give one of your kids like a baby, a newborn baby. I can give their kid a future. I want to adopt it and they'll pay. In Pakistan, they sell their kids and all that stuff all the time because they sell girls for marriage and everything else. But they sell kids all the time. But they're also thinking, oh, this is the best chance for their kid, you know, they don't care. It's money and they just want to give the kid a chance of a future. Then they'll kill the kid and stuff the dead carcass with narcotics because drugs, sniffing dogs can't smell narcotics through a dead carcass. Yeah. And they'll ship that body. They'll carry that body as if it's a sleep in baby. Out of Pakistan, oh, my goodness. And then obviously there's the people small, low in the pills, the 1.2 kg through condoms and everything else. There's a million ways to get their products across that they're all more sinister than that. Then the next, I found out the hard way by being a dupe myself, thinking I was working for a legit leather career company. Before we get too far and do it, did you watch the documentaries or listen to the audio book or anything? I'm sorry, I did not have a chance. I was in Miami taking a very rare vacation all week and I promised myself no work. No, my aunt is a place you go to relax and eat and chill. I was with a really hot Colombian girl and she would not have, you know, they're not easy. Say no more. You had me at Miami. So it's, it's, I hear a lot of horror stories about the Nigerians. I, you know, they're infamously ruthless in places like, they're not alone though, being the world sucks there's evil everywhere, but Nigerians got quite a good monopoly on their own evil. How, how you went down as a dupe was, was from this evil guy that you thought was your friend. He was an American. No, he was an Arminian American. But yeah, there's a big difference. Since then, I've learned that Armenians love to just jack credit cards and oral money and never pay it back. And so all my Armenian friends have screwed me in one way or another. It's just the way it is. Yeah, and they know it too. They'll laugh about it. If anybody thinks we're being like racist or whatever, you just don't know Armenian, you can call me racist, but you're not gonna call me a liar. As for sure, every time I've got every time I've gotten into an Armenian cab from Burbank Airport and used my credit card within an hour. My credit card's already being used in Albany, New York. It's weird. Isn't that crazy how that happens? Yes, I've had so much credit card fraud from every single Armenian cab driver I've used to credit card in. And then of course, it was an Armenian that had me unknownly smuggled narcotics and put me on death row in Pakistan. So yeah, I don't like Armenians at all. And it's safer to still avoid them at all costs. Otherwise, you might be on death row in Pakistan like I was or have your credit stolen. Like that's happened to me too. - Today's episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. You guys may as mental health awareness month and if you've thought about trying therapy, look no further than BetterHelp. BetterHelp is the world's number one online therapy platform. BetterHelp matches you with a therapist over 30,000 to choose from on the platform that best fits your need. And best of all, if you find a therapist that you don't quite jive with, BetterHelp will find you a new one, discreetly and easily and at no extra charge. I myself use BetterHelp. I go once a week and I have been for many, many years. I've been with my therapist. I could not live without him at this point. And everybody that I know who goes to therapy uses BetterHelp. Like I said, over 30,000 therapists, six million people served worldwide and it works. It's got an average rating of 4.9 out of five for a live session based on 1.7 million client reviews. You don't have to do this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com/connect. That's better, help.com/connect. - You carry yourself very strong. You seem like a guy that is able to psychologically bear a lot of things. I, myself, am a mental midget. Is my father used to say, why would you say that? - Just because I don't think I'm very mentally tough. And it's just what it is. I probably had it too easy as a child. It's part of nature. Maybe it's character flaws. I don't know. I mean, I've been in some tough situations, but this is one that's extremely rare. I'm grateful for you to tell it. Have you ever seen the movie "Broke Down Palace" with Claire Danes and Kate Beckinson? What about return to paradise with Vince Vaughan and Joaquin Phoenix? See, I don't know if that's a true story, but it was like Joaquin Phoenix was in Thailand and with his friends Vince Vaughan and another guy. And then he wanted to stay and the guys went back. Well, they were all, you know, hookin' up with hookers and smoke and pot. And when the guys went back, the cops came and found the guy with a little bit of pot. But if it was just him and his friends, it would have been two years for everyone, but because it was him by himself, all the pot was his responsibility and that was death row. So his sister, who was played by, who was the girl that died, who was dating her. Anyways. Oh, I know, that girl that died. So that she was in "American Pie." No, no, no, no. Frit Murphy? No, no, no, no. She said, "We're breaking Murphy now, we're breaking up." It was the girl who was in, like, seven days, seven nights with Harrison Ford and used to, oh, shit. Oh, I don't know. Like, they said she died in the car crash. It's supposedly she knew some stuff. That's a conspiracy theory. Anyways, she plays the older sister and she tries to convince Vince Vaughan and the other guy has to come back to take their part of the punishment to save their brothers, her brother's life, who's either gonna get death or he's gonna get two years as long as the other two guys come back and go, "Yes, we were part of this to give the guys two years." But they see how dilapidated he is and how fragile he is and how prison that he's been in prison now. It's just destroyed him. So they're like, "No, screw that. "I'm not gonna do it, Vince Vaughan does it." And they still end up hanging the guy because the other guy balanced. But when I watched that movie the first time, I watched it when I had never been to jail. And I was like, could I do two years for a friend? Damn, like, it would have to be a really good fucking friend. Well, now after I've gone to jail, I'm like, "Oh, shit, I do two years on my eyes, close." It's easy. It's, people think, the reason I bring that up is like, give her a jump and a pull and swim around and it's freezing cold. But then like, after eight seconds, all of a sudden it feels good. You adjusted that quick. You're built to adjust. We think we're not, but we're absolutely built. Our bodies are built to adjust. Our mind is our most powerful weapon. Our bodies are just the greatest interest from it will ever own. Everyone, whether they like it or not, is built to adapt to a situation. We hope we don't have to go through a bad situation. But the truth is, we're meant to adapt to whatever's thrown in front of us. So it's all mental. It's all mental. I'd rather have a great attitude in a bad situation than a bad attitude in a great situation. Hey, man. Yeah, I think just the facing potentially being hung, as I think you said, a friend of yours on death row in Pakistan was hung. I think that is kind of what I was referring to. I mean, yeah, you can survive horrid conditions, but AI, I think to keep fighting, even in the face of what looks like certain death is not something that everybody just has the strength to do. There's a great saying that I learned in Pakistan. It says, a guy who suicidal will suddenly find the will to live when thrown into the deep end of the pool. Or into an ocean. Or I, you'll see people starts and don't find a way to keep that head above water. Now, is that in Pakistan a death to drug traffickers? You know how that's on the, when you get into, you go into Saudi Arabia. Like I've seen videos as soon as you're entering before you get to customs, after you get off the plane and Saudi Arabia is you're going down an escalator. There's big signs that say death to drug traffickers. Yeah. Is Pakistan kind of the same way? Is it a known thing? Yeah. One KG is up to the discretion of the judge. If the judge got in a fight with his wife that morning, he could absolutely take it out on you. It's also a very corrupt country. So the corruption actually works in your favor if you're guilty, because if you're innocent and you fight it, you're, you can be severely penalized for it. So one KG, which is 2.2 pounds, it can be anywhere. It's a big window, one year to death. It's up to the discretion of the judge, whatever judge you get. So judges give out death all the time if they're pissed off or if they're not getting money. Or they'll give you one KG if you play the system right. So there's people who know the system in Pakistan because of how corrupt it is. The Nigerians are like masters at it. And they'll pay the judges off the pay the NRA, the NAB, sorry, narcotics, basically police over there pay the prosecutors off. And they'll get smuggle tons, like five tons and get like five years or less. And then with good remissions and bribes, they get out in like two, three years. But I was innocent. So they threw me out death row. And I wasn't pleading guilty for a crime. I didn't commit. So I always put on death row. And then I was got my sentence reduced to seven years, three months. And then I got myself out in three years because I became a lawyer while I was over there. So if you're innocent and you fight it, you're going to be like even in America where we're supposedly educated, there's people here who don't know. They're scared to try to fight it and prove their innocent. So they're always cop and pleased. The crimes they had nothing to do with because they're worried that if they lose, they're going to have the key thrown away or they're going to face such a bigger punishment for something that they didn't even do. And that's here in America. So people are constantly cop and pleased all the time. There's a lot of innocent people in jail all over the world, but especially in America. And before I went to jail, I would think, you know, hey, possessions 10/10 to the law. If you were stupid enough, but no, it's drug smugglers are shameless. They can keep you in the dark. They won't have to pay you what you're worth. Also, they figure you won't draw suspicion to yourself because you don't know you're being used to smuggle anything illegal. It happens all the time. >> Yeah, in America, you know, that's a tactic just to get you to plead guilty. We're going to throw, we're going to threaten you with the book. So just take a small charge so we can keep the system moving because it's so backed up. >> Exactly, and they're lay it forever. So even if you do fight it, you're still going to be punished because you're not going to get a court date in a couple of months and you're going to have to go if you're denied bail. Or if you do get a bail, you can be financially ruined there because how many people got $60,000 lying around to get, if the six of the bail is less than $600,000 or whatever, you're still throwing away an outrageous amount of money and then you've got to get law fees and everything else. So you're already being punished just to try to prove you innocent. There's a lot of people who can't afford to get bail. There's a lot of people who can't afford an attorney. And so they have to stay in jail while they fight this very slow draining process. It sucks. >> Sounds like it's almost better if you are connected and have money to get caught smuggling drugs in Pakistan. >> Yes. >> No, you figured it out. That's not it. There's people who had been arrested multiple times while I was there. There was this one South African kid. He loved Tupac. So his nickname was Tupac and they're tall people. So he was a white dude. He was like six, 10. And he'd like look over the wall. And the third time he was here in jail. Look, dude, you missed me that much. What the fuck? And this dude knew how to play the system though. He was in his early 20s. He had been arrested at the third time with seven KG on him. He had 1.2 KG. That's the most you can swallow in his stomach. He had five KG in a bag. And he had two KG, one KG in each shoe. So they found the bag. They found the shoe. And then he had the 1.2 in his stomach. So when he got into jail, he was already shitting it out. Had his own bed. He had people getting water and food for him because he was living like a king because he's already got so much money going into jail. And then he paid off the cops who said, oh, it was all fake. It was just powdered sugar or whatever else. And so they took it from what would be a 9C down to a 9A, which is less than 100 grams, which is only going to be up max a year in jail, but it takes time to go through all the legal system because it's so slow. So, but he does third time in jail. And he has seven and a half kilos of heroin. And he's making money in prison from the heroin that he was able to get into the jail. So he's selling it in there. Yes, that's why he's got his own bed now. He's got his workers already because he knows how to play the game. And it happened all the time. Thanks for here. Well, I'm in jail, but I'm still going to make a bunch of money. In jail, he's going to make by their contacts and they're going to steal their career criminals. The average person in jail would, especially the foreigners, it would have been in multiple prisons in multiple countries. There's one dipshit German named Ziggy, who had just been in jail for two, no, for four years in India and then like two and a half months later, he was kind of Pakistan doing the same shit. And it was his fifth country, if it's prison in his fifth country, but they know how to bribe and that's why they're able to get caught and get out so quick. Well, these guys didn't know they were just career criminals, but certain people like two pocket knew how to get into the system so they would plead guilty to pay the judge. The judges are the most corrupt people on earth because I was an American citizen. I didn't have a chance to do anything like that reasonably. The judge that was handling my case in the lower court wanted $125,000 for my acquittal. Like this is ridiculous. Had I been Pakistani, it would have been 500 bucks, which is, no, nothing. But because I'm an American, $125,000 and then the process, so he delayed my case religiously, he just wanted me to pay. And finally, when he realized I wasn't going to pay, he's like, fine, I'll just take the $1,000 and give him a couple years. And I still wasn't, but I would still have to apply guilty and I still wasn't going to plead guilty for a crime and commit. I was offered a deal, plead guilty, pay the judge off, pay the prosecutor off. It's only going to cost me $1,000, which was $60,000 rupees. This is normal. This is absolutely normal. But you got to plead guilty. The judge is going to give you two year prison sentence and I'd already been there for a year. So with good remissions and and probably some more bribes, I probably would have only been in jail another four and a half months when they presented this deal to me. Things sounded great until they said, but you have to plead guilty. I was pissed. And I was like, I'm not, why would I plead guilty for a crime and commit? I was so pissed. And but I was torn. I wasn't sure if I was going to plead guilty or not. I didn't want to. But then the Pakistani interpreter is a little fucking AMOVSOL who was always there. He was a corrupt bastard. But he says, Eric, what's worth more to you? You're prior to your freedom. And when he said that, I said, you little bastard. Because that answered my question for me. And my pride was worth the hell of a lot more than my freedom. So I refused to plead guilty for a crime I didn't commit. And then he delayed the case like two more days because he wanted my attorneys and everyone to talk to me. And the embassy, this, I don't remember this woman's name so long ago, but she was so pissed off at me. She was like, you're a punk. No one cares. It's Pakistan. Just go home. You're putting our lives in danger. I was like, don't visit me. Don't visit me. Because the embassy, you know, yeah, they had, they had some issues like someone threw a bunch of grenades at a church on the day after St. Patrick's Day. The first year I was there in 2002 and think I was the day after St. Patrick's Day because everyone was hung over and they didn't go to church. But the ones who did got, you know, they killed like, I think they're, no, seven or 13 people. I don't know why I'm not forgetting you have to, you have to Google it. And then they had like a little rocket shooting at their convoys occasionally when they were coming to visit me. So yeah, their lives were in danger. But anyways, I wasn't going to plead guilty for a crime I didn't commit. And I got, and then I was at the time, I was on death row. But I got taken off death throw in a new superintendent head come. And this is, I know I'm all over the place a little bit. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's in my, it's all in my book. Today's episode is also brought to you by Lucy. You guys, I've tried a lot of tobacco-free nicotine products lately. I've tried gum. I've tried those mints. I've tried the lozenges. But nothing hits for me like Lucy. Let me tell you why. Lucy is a premium 100% tobacco-free nicotine pouch made for true pouch connoisseurs. You get the Lucy pouches and Lucy breakers, which deliver long-lasting flavor for a seriously satisfying pouch experience. And Lucy has all different kinds of flavors and strengths depending on what you're looking for. I personally take these before I go to the gym. I like to keep energized and focused. So I take like a 6 milligram wintergreen, put it in my lip, forget it's there, and I have the best work out of my life. 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Like the judges, they know they can get paid off, so they say, "Hey, we're going to kill you unless you give me a hundred grand." Probably. I mean, I mean, it seems like that. How do you go from getting a death sentence all the way down to, "Hey, just plead guilty and do a couple of years?" It's a lot of corruptions. It's like buying a rug in Turkey. You know, there's a lot of negotiating going on. Like I said, I went the court 50 plus times before I finally got my sentence because there's a lot of like, weighing and kind of going and that was just the lower court. The higher court is a bit different because the lower court's only up to one judge. There's no jury here. But the higher court is two judges and they swap them. It's a rotating schedule and the reason why they do this because they don't want two judges to get too comfortable with each other because then that'll up the chance of them being bribable. So a lot of people move forward as far as like being promoted in Pakistan by ratting out the corrupt ones. So that's why they entice them to like, "Do this guy took a bribe and try to get me to take it?" And then they'll, you know, themote that guy and promote this guy. So in the higher court, it's not impossible but it's a lot less likely to be a much corruption. Even though there's corruption everywhere, it's harder to bribe the judges so you actually get your real sentence in the higher court. And that's where I was able to rock and roll, except because I was an American. I'm the only American in the entire country in jail at the time in Pakistan. It was right after 9/11. I was always in the newspapers because I was an actor stuntman since I was a kid. So it was, I was big news whenever I went to court. So I was always on front page and whatnot. The lawyers just wanted crazy amounts of money. I wasn't getting any kind of chance. Like I literally had, this is a $400 case for anyone else. If it's a local $400, that's $24,000 rupees at the time. I was being charged $25,000, $35,000. One lawyer wanted $4 million. And I'm in chains. I'm looking at this guy who looked like he was hung over. I'm like, you mean rupees, which is still ridiculous because it's the 24,000 rupee case. I'm like, this is a death sentence case, my friend, dollars. And I'm like, you take check. It was, I would laugh every day at myself. It was so ridiculous of everything that was happening. And then when I, you know, I wasn't worried about the lower court, I was expecting them to give me life or death. I always focused on the higher court. I always prepared myself mentally that I was going to have to fight for my freedom in the higher court. And then when the guy gave me seven years, three months, I was stoked. I was happy. He was like, oh my God, I was expecting life or death. So higher court was going to take a while. But my mom at the time, you know, probably my mom being involved as it was hurting me. It was hurting me really bad. Not intentionally on her part, but Pakistani people in America are pieces of shit, all right. They don't see a situation and think, fuck, that's fucked up. I'm sorry. I wish there was something I can do. They see an opportunity. They say, oh, I absolutely know someone who can help you. I cousin or my brother or so and so is a lawyer. He's high ranking. What they're doing is they're trying to find ways to get kickbacks and money and all this stuff. So my mom was getting siphoned left and right by all these scumbag hustlers who were Pakistani making empty promises. She'd get some money. They disappeared. And they were ghosting her left and right. I'm like, stop giving these idiots money. They're a bunch of fucking leeches. Stop it. You're making my life worse. She found someone through her Pakistani connections that was like one of the best lawyers in Pakistan. He had a good reputation in Pakistan and it was like really exaggerated. Like when the other prisoners heard of this guy's name was Sidir Han or Sadakh Han. I'd have to go back and look at my doubts. But people would literally exaggerate their like, when he's done talking to the courts, the judge will get up and start clapping like it was so overexaggerated. I'm like, all right, everyone agrees. This is a good lawyer. My mom's like, he's going to take the case pro bono. I'm like, that doesn't sound like a packy at all. And she's like, just trust me on this. And here I was just sentenced. I'm like, I don't trust my mom on this and I just smuggle the phone and I'm trying to calm her down. I'm like, look, don't trust these people. He's taking the case pro bono. He just wants the exposure. And I'm like, maybe. I don't know. This guy lives in Lahore. I'm in Islamabad. Well, I'm in Rahul Pindi, which is about an hour or so east of Islamabad. And I'm like, all right, let's see what happens. So I'm thinking this guy's going to come to the prison and meet with me and we're going to have a game plan. He never comes to the prison, but he's in the newspaper all the time talking about how I'm representing the famous Hollywood actor, Eric Anthony. They always went with middle names and never went with first and last names because they got like five names, you know? And it's like happening all the time. And then finally, like, after months, I'm like, what is going on with my case? Because I have no idea what's going on with my case because this dude's not coming to the prison to talk to me. And finally, because I had a smuggled phone in the prison, I'm finally able to get an answer out of my mother. And what is going on because she's acting like she's crying, I'm like, oh, Jesus, all right, so what's the good news? He says he can have you out of jail next week. Okay, that's a lie. That's impossible. Because now I got to get visa. I know how this is. to get out like because I'm a foreigner. If I was a look we can get out you know if you're a foreigner you have to go through a bunch of steps and get a visa to get to the airport. It takes months. So I know that's a lie and I go okay but what's the problem? She goes he wants $9,000. I'm like what do you mean $9,000? I took the case pro-bona. How much have you given this guy? She was giving them thousands and thousands and not telling me because I had already warned her months back after I've been sentenced that this is how these people were but of course you know I don't know what I'm talking about even though I was right and sure she was keeping that she was getting funneled all this money out about this guy. I said $9,000 all right that's very nice and and then she said he says that if he if he can't get you out from the high court he he says oh my god I just I I turned it around he wanted $25,000 which was the remainder of his fee for the high court and I was laughing about that the remainder of his fee and that's how I learned that she had been given the money but he said that if he can't get me out in the high court he's only gonna charge $9,000 for the Supreme Court and it was basically saying not only am I gonna fuck your son I'm gonna fuck him again just like mom you're being involved this completely fucking me over so I said I'm sorry and literally I hung up all his piss but I I should have known this was happening I wasn't shocked so I wrote to the embassy and I told him my mom was no longer allowed to have any information on who I'm where I haven't represent me because her being involved is screw me because the lawyers don't want to deal with you if they know you got a small pool because you're in jail but if they got someone else outside on your behalf the resources are endless that's how they look at it so they want to go for a family member or a loved one so they can siphon off whatever they can because they don't see a human being they see an opportunity to just milk everything they can out of you so I let the embassy know don't tell my mom anything she's not allowed to be involved because she's gonna metal and she's gonna fuck things up not intentionally it's just the way it is all right I have to do this on my own embassy was actually happy about that because now they have to deal with her anymore because she was calling him and bothering him and everything else and you want someone fighting for you but unfortunately when they're fighting for you and they're muddling muddy in the waters it's just gonna make it impossible then I wrote a note to this lawyer who lived in Lahore uh Mr. Siddak I'm sorry I can't afford 25 thousand dollars I'm gonna find other legal representation take care God bless that's it I sent it to him all he had to do was say oh that sucks and go on with his life so I can't now that I'm convicted in Pakistan the embassy doesn't have to get me another lawyer they don't have to help me anymore all you have to do is come see me every four months that's it by law to make sure that I'm not being treated any differently than anybody else the American embassy correct and that doesn't say a lot because people are being tortured and starved in all the time but it's that I don't care if the embassy came to see me because I'm adjusting to the system and work in the prison and I'm I'm doing just fine but I still need a lawyer so I'm trying to like get outside lawyers to come into the prison to help me but they need the embassy's permission or the backing to come see me but now that I'm a conflict I don't have that anymore so no lawyer is coming to the prison to come see me and while this is happening Siddir is sucked cocksucker from Lahore got on a plane flew all the way to Islamabad and says my client is happy with the seven year three month prison sentence I withdraw my pill cost to me my one chance in high court so my mom being involved is about to cost me another year and a half in jail unfortunately that sucks this is where I'm like well that fucking sucks and I learned about all this through the newspapers by the way because there it was like front page you know the American loves prison like you said the bitches okay so before we figure out how you actually got out let's talk about what got you in well I was arrested with 3.6 kg of opium how they pronounce it as alfium I was working at a gym in Burbank as a trainer back in 99 and one of my clients was a very successful Armenian businessman his name was Raghazarian that's how I'd always known him turns out that wasn't his real name his real name was Rasmic Manassian but I wouldn't learn that until I was in jail Raghazarian and I would work out three four times a week and when you work out with someone that much you become friends you don't just talk about working out you talk about women you know sports whatever you become buddies and we became good friends nine or so months later my girlfriend broke up with me I was depressed he knew I was depressed because it was my friend he knew there was something wrong with me and I was working the front the front literally he walked in it was December I want to say December 15th I don't know why I'm remembering that way December 15th and he was like you need to make a trip for me because I was depressed and a week later I was on my first trip out of the country to Turkey that quick he saw an opportunity to strike and he took it what did he tell you he did well he had a he had a used car dealership he had leather stores he was a very successful Armenian businessman and he was a businessman and he was hiring people in the late teens early 20s college kids to travel around the world for him importing expensive leather goods and paying them for it now the here's how the here's how the hustle went supposedly we're bringing back 25 to 30 thousand dollars worth of leather goods but by sending someone like you or me or someone else over there to on a free trip and then they have to bring back all the stuff in their own clothing or in the suitcase that they're given as their own clothing they're beating they're you know he's saving 15 to you know $16,000 you get 800 bucks spending you get a free trip he saves a ton of money on the taxes you mean correct on the import tax because there's a 400 there's a 40% import tax back into the US I mean have you ever been out of the US and come back yeah but not with goods we well they have you but they gave you a paper to sign right you have to all everyone gets that paper heavy brought you everything to declare everyone gets that paper is there really a 40% yes for tax even back then yes back then yes I thought that you know the tariffs were this big failed thing that Trump tried to do last year no tariffs have been around for a minute they've been around forever 40% 40% yeah so we're bringing back $25 to $30,000 of leather goods and bags and skirts and shirts and pants but by sending someone like you over there claiming it as your own clothing you don't have to declare anything got nothing to declare so you knew you were doing this and you figured okay this is just like dodging taxes this isn't big this is like a crime see at the time I was like my mom and everyone was like I told everyone I didn't hide this at all because I was like this I mean it does sound too good to be true and so we would in every view every all the kids at the I say kids everyone's kid now and it was under 25 but everyone that was making these trips coming back talking about great trips and in Italy and Turkey and Sweden and I was jealous but I still brought it to my mom who worked at the Sheriff's Department once upon a time in her life been she had friends who were also still in the Sheriff's Department so when I told her what I was going on she had a friend of hers who knew a little bit more about people who did stuff like this and had this guy actually call me and my question was he's like so what they're bringing in stuff and I was like yeah he was like people do this with rugs they do it with a jewelry they do with other things he goes it's very common and I was like so well I go to jail like that was my question would I go to jail for it he's like no the confiscated the confiscated give you a fine but then I was like really he compared it to a jaywalking ticket he goes it's illegal but you're not gonna go to jail for it I was like okay as soon as he said I'm not going to jail for it I was all in I wanted to go and travel the world and do cool stuff and have three swims like my friends were having it was you know it sounded like it sounded like a great opportunity so you're you had friends that had done this for this business at the gym I was at the gym for nine months before I'd gone on my first trip and I was watching all these other people make these trips and they were coming back and you become friends with everyone at the gym especially all the regulars it's just the it's just what's gonna happen and were you working as a stuntman at this time so somewhat not as much as I do now but yeah I've been working as a stuntman actor since 92 right so like when I was working at the gym you know I had I worked the nighttime shift so I keep my days open and so I can still audition and everything else and then I might you know I was working I could pay my bills from the work I was getting but you always wanted to keep a job there just in case you know because you never knew when your next job was fortunately for me I was working all the time I was doing dude with my car I was doing bounce I was doing TV shows guest are very current and I was getting like I was going to network all the time for different shows it came down to me and like three others for Kelso on the 70s show that Ashton Kelsho Kutcher got I actually booked Steve Stiffler in American Pie and I got paid for a week of work I never did I was told that I looked they wanted someone to look goofy and I looked too much like the client kid at the time it came down to me and Josh Hartnet for Virgin Suicides for Sophia Coppola so I was screen testing with with all these people for these roles and it came down to me and Steve and Howie for Reba so you were really almost breaking in what you were I was I was right there I was going into the big room sitting with like in a small room with the guys who would end up going forward yeah but I was still getting co-stars and guest stars and nice little small little reoccurring on all these shows so I was still being filled in where I was where I was appropriate so how much were you you were getting $800 a run yes which is nothing no but I started when I was 19 so he wanted me to go every month and I was working I was working on Scorpion King I was working on the 8th I was working on dude where's my car you know I was I was actually making I was making I was making a good living as a as an actor slash stunt man but I wanted to keep these opportunities open so I was encouraging him to all my friends my family my brothers my mother I thought I was a great opportunity and so I encouraged it to everyone and so then I would when I had some time off nothing was going on I was like hey I'm available I can go again and then I would go again and then time would go hey can you go again I'm busy but I didn't want to lose these opportunities so people were going on these trips because of my recommendation right and so no one got caught thank God God I would have felt terrible had someone gotten caught because of me the final trip was right hang on just just because I want to build up to it how many trips had you made before the trip where you got caught. - Only two. - To where? - Turkey. Turkey, but then on the way back, I'd come back to Sweden. - And he gave you the routes. Obviously he had the itineraries. - He booked everything. - Right, okay. So you're going to Turkey and you're picking up leather. - Correct. - Leather, what kind of leather? - Like jackets, shirts, skirts, clothing. - Right, yeah. - And it's cheap as shit over there, right? - I guess at the time, I never actually purchased it. His context of meet me, I'd have a little manifest. I'd have to go through everything to make sure it was in good condition. It was cheap, it was tattered and everything else. They made it as official as possible. And then I would come back through and just go through customs and have a good time in Turkey and have a good free vacation or have a good time in Sweden. Turkey is a cool country too. - Right. - If you ever go to Turkey, if you can, it's a beautiful country. But make sure you pack your own stuff. Don't ever care anything for anyone else. And plus I was 19, look, when you're 19, you think you know everything. You don't know shit, you don't know anything. And I never thought that someone could do this to somebody else. Now, people who are criminal since, I mean, I'm 46 now, but people who are criminals go back and get in trouble again and again and again. I even been back to jail or in trouble in any way, shape or form. I won a $20.4 million suit against the dipshit that set me up. I could have gone home early, had I just pled guilty, but I refused to plead guilty for a crime commit. I didn't commit facing a possible death sentence. And I still refused to plead guilty. I got myself out in just under three years. I've had a great life since, right now. I've got two documentaries about my life. I'm still doing stunts and acting. I just bought a couple buildings. I opened up a couple of businesses. The only reason I share this stuff with everyone is because I want people to be very well aware of what is actually happening in the world. Had I heard of a story similar to this, I would have been wiser. I would have said, you know what? That's a little too good to be true. And I would have been spry enough to walk away. And so I've had people contact me saying, hey, I was doing something that sounded a lot like what you were doing, and I think I was smuggling drugs. I'm glad you told it your story. So I'm not going to get in trouble. I'm happy to hear that. But then I hear all the time from people who have family members who are stuck in other countries, especially when they get stuck in Pakistan. And they contact me, what should I do when everything else? I say, you tell them that they need to get very comfortable. They need to be patient, because everyone's going to try to take advantage of them, all right? And they need to find prisoners that have lawyers that will actually do the jobs, all right? But they're going to have to make friends. You know, I tell them to relax, don't we know? And they're going to get empty promises left and right. So I try to avoid having them be taken advantage of. Unfortunately, they're going to have to do a little bit of time. And especially if they're guilty, it's going to work on their favor because they can pay the judge off. They can pay the prosecutor off. So presumably that first trip that you made to Turkey and then back through Sweden, you were carrying 100%. 100%. Because I was carrying two suitcases that lay, and I was a big kid. I was benching 420 pounds. I was at the gym all the time. I was a gym rat. I didn't do drugs. I didn't drink. I was just a gym rat. And I was a stuntman. I was crazy. I wanted to be an actor. I wanted to be an action hero. So I was kicked. I remember carrying these two suitcases that would just absolutely weigh me down. I had to pay extra money because they were so heavy and I was so pissed about that. And then when I went to Pakistan, which wasn't even supposed to be my trip. It was supposed to be my older brother Peter's trip. But when he found out it was to Pakistan, he backed back down. And I'm a thank god he backed out. Because it was supposed to be to Turkey. But then for some reason it was the Pakistan. I can't vouch for Pakistan because I've never been. And I had just booked the show Arles, which is crazy. I booked a guest star on Arles. I had a pilot called 360 that had booked the lead on for Warner Brothers. That was going to be filming the end of the month. And another movie called Velvet Blue that I played like a bully throughout. That was going to be like a month and a half after that. I was a work and stuntman actor. The day I went, the day before I went to Pakistan, I was working on the Andy Dick show as his psychic. And I was working an actor stuntman. I was living my dream. But I wanted to keep these opportunities open. And the fact that my brother who I vouched for backed out, I felt obligated to my friend Ray to step in and take the trip for my brother. And I'm glad I did. My life would have been completely different had a knock on. How many other people had you recruited or to get for Ray to bring stuff back? Dozens. So you unwittingly moved dozens of kilos of heroin. Well, I don't know what they're moving. Well, opium was-- see, everyone was like, why are opium? Because opium is considered the small man on the total pole. You got opium. You got Hashish. You've got the other things. And then you got heroin. So heroin is the big guy. Opium is considered the bottom of the dollar, you know? What do you think the opium that you got caught carrying? How was that resold? Like, I don't even know anything about the opium market. Like, what is this, the 1850s in San Francisco? I have a guesstimate only. But remember when I said the first two trips, my arms were weighed down on this trip. I had one suitcase. And it wasn't that heavy. And instead of me having red flags galore, I was like, all right, I'm not going to get screwed at the airport with the weight. I'm not going to have to inconvenience of lugging around all this weight. That should have been a red flag. And like, we were talking before, where someone will get in trouble to open up the floodgates for everyone else. My theory is they said, let's put all the attention on this guy. You were the dummy. I was the, well, definitely the dummy. They call that in Mexico, the rabbit, the one who gets caught at a conejo, the one who gets caught to let the other ones through. Well, I was definitely the rabbit that day because all the attention was on me that day. And because the guy told me at the airport, when they went through my stuff and then put it back in, I was about to walk through the customs when someone grabbed my arm and turned me around. And I looked at him, he goes, are you carrying? No, he says, are you carrying narcotics? I said, check it again. They took that suitcase and only that suitcase, not my bag or my backpack. And he opened it and threw all the clothes on the ground. I was like, whoa, I'm there for the clothes. I thought that was so disrespectful. So I'm like, fold in at all. And they took the suitcase to another part of the airport. I wasn't there. And they brought me to another room where they had one guard in the room with me. And I folded everything up. And while time was going by, I'm just worried about missing my flight. And I'm even trying to tell this guard. He doesn't speak a lick of ink or something. They can just throw that suitcase out. I don't care. Get me another suitcase for all this stuff. Well, then the hallway starts to fill up with guards. And I'm like, I'm worried about missing my flight. And then finally, that dude who grabbed my arm comes back in and he's followed behind by this other guard who has these two. Very thin. The way I describe it is like newspapers. There were thin newspapers, but they were vacuum sealed. And it was like a grayish green. And he goes, what does this? And I'm like, he's holding it. Meaning like, you should know, he is the one holding it. He goes, this is all film. Two plus two became four very quick. And I said, why are you showing me this? He says, it came out of your luggage. And I said, second that happened, I felt like such a fucking idiot. And I said something, you never want to say when you're on vacation. I said, I need to speak with the American Embassy. And then he said, Embassy can't help you. We're going to hang you after five o'clock prayer. And that's when the shit hit the van. This is that Islamabad airport. OK, how long had you been in Pakistan before you went to the airport? I arrived February 11th that morning as a Monday. And I thought Pakistan being a desert. This is how naive I was when I was younger. I thought it was going to be hot because Middle East countries are always picked this hot. It was freezing cold when I got off the airplane off this sucks. It's cold. The first day there, I met a girl on the plane flying in from my connecting flight from a U of A United Arab Emirates. And we were making out on the plane. Muslim girl. That was the way it was. 20. You're already given a middle finger to Islam. I didn't know. I'm sure you're flying it. I didn't know. Did you know that Pakistan is one of the most violent? At the time, I knew nothing. It's insanely fun to metal as Muslim countries. Yeah, see, a million questions. The answer is I didn't know of shit because I was an idiot kid who thought that the world loved us because we're American. And they listened to our music and wear our clothes and watch our movies. I knew nothing. I had no idea. In 2002. This is February 11th, 2002. Oh, right after none. Right after none of them. Wow. Well, you really were just out for adventure. Yeah. That was an arrogant piece of shit and nothing changed. I was a, I know it was a joke. I was a, I was a stuntman. I, I, you know, I was the first person on Earth to have their urethra severed, reconnected. I'd already had 52 surgeries between 8 and 15 years old when I was run over by a school bus. And I was a, I can't hurt me. Right. And so I was invincible. I didn't give a shit. Yeah. And I would flirt with everyone and smile as universal. And there was a girl on the plane who I, who I, who I sat by and she was cute. We're making out on the plane out of the covers. It was only a two-hour flight, too. It's great. Her name was Sadef Sadiq. And I remember that name because I was like, it's like your son, Dick, and she was laughing because she's like, I never even thought about that. Oh my God. Yeah. So she asked where I was going to be. I'm like, I'm going to as long of that somewhere. And I get to the airport and this guy's got like my name on a little napkin. And, and now these, and, and the guys like, we're talking, they were talking like they were from San Diego. They had American accents and everything else. And they said, Ray fucked up. I'm like, what do you mean? They're like, oh, you're supposed to go to Karachi and Karachi is like eight hours away, you know, it's a different part of the country. I'm like, so what does that mean? I mean, we're not going to be able to hang out with you. We're just going to put you in a hotel. I'm like, what's, no, that's just racist. I was going to be shaperone. I was going to be shown a good time. We were going to get girls. Like, that's how he actually promoted this trip. Because I didn't just be like, let's go to Pakistan at the time when I found out it was the Pakistan. I was like, well, fuck wants to go to Pakistan. And he was like, don't worry, it's going to be so much I'm getting a very good deal, and I was like, if you're getting such a good deal, FedEx, that shit back. He's like, he's like, no, you're gonna have a good time and go, the war's an Afghanistan. I was like, that's like same. LA, East LA and Mexico, there's not a big difference. And regardless, I took the trip from place on my brother. I'm in Pakistan now when I could have been filming a guester on the show, Oralus, which paid $5,000, but I'm a loyal friend, I'm also an idiot, and I wanted to keep these opportunities open. So I met this cute girl, but when we landed, she immediately goes to the bathroom, puts on her whole burko, so it's head to toe. Like, why do you look like a goalie? She's like, you don't understand. This is Pakistan. This is just the way it is. Well, I've had to toe like-- She had like a little slit right here. Like, and that's, that's major. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this girl was like, all dolled up, I'm meant to go, and next thing I know, she was looking like a head to toe goalie. And I wanted to give her a hug in the airport. She was, she can't walk near me or nothing, but she wanted to know where I was at. And what, so she got, when I, she saw the guys that were giving me the thing or who had my name on the napkin and asked what, or what hotel I'm going to be staying at. And so she did her own research and called the hotel that I was going to be staying at. These guys just dropped me off at the hotel. And that's when I first time I saw a squat toilet. I'm like, what the fuck is this? It's a toilet. I mean, that's not a toilet, dude. That's not a toilet. It's a hole. It was a fucking hole. This place looked like shit. I'm like, you guys need to take me to another hotel. I'm like, what if I got to go to the bathroom? Go right there. And I was like, what are you talking about? Should I go on my shoes? No, you're not. I was like, let me borrow your shoes right now. The guy's like, no. I'm like, exactly. So they leave me at this hotel. They won. It's Monday. It sucks. And I'm like, well, Ray says you guys are going to give me 200 bucks. They're supposed to give me spending money. I didn't bring any money with me. And the guys give each other a little look. I mean, there was red flags everywhere. I'm fucking idiot. They're right. But anyways, they gave me a thousand rupees and tell me, that's like 200 American dollars. That is $17. [LAUGHTER] And I'm like, I guess $2,000. I'm fucking assholes. So I got 1,000 rupees. The first thing I do is I go into the-- there's a little restaurant at the bottom of the hotel. And I don't know what the order. No one's speaking English. I can't read nothing. I just-- I order something. Someone brings out a couple of eggs and some toast and maybe water or jam or juice. And my first meal was 360 rupees. [LAUGHTER] Oh my god. I'm here till Friday. I'm so screwed. So I need to go find an internet cafe. And I go and I'm jogging down the streets of Islamabad. Man, Islamabad. There's no white people. There's no ethnicity there. What's the weather? It's just Pakistan's every direction. And no one speaks English and I'm just jogging down the streets like a dipshit because that's what I'm doing. I'm exploring. And I come across these three girls outside this shop and I go up and start talking to them. But they're smiling. They don't know what the hell I'm saying. But they're still smiling. And everything else. And then I go and I jog across the bridge. But when I look back, I see the girls waving like, all right, okay, I've got some seeds planted. I go and find an internet cafe and I start sending out emails and everything else. This girl that-- I'll get to that a little bit. There was this girl and they missy that I had loved since I was in kindergarten. It's just a stupid love story. Everything I did was for this girl. Every time I would get tired. I was studying. I would study a little harder. Missy doesn't want to eat. Every time I got tired at the gym, Missy wouldn't want to go out with a fat guy. So she was my motivation in life for every little thing in my life. For some reason I was hit over heels and loved this girl I met when I was five years old. And she never gave me the time of day. And I was funny how that works. The girls you want, it's not the girl that wants you. All her friends wanted me and I hooked up with all her friends, but she didn't want me. Anyways, she doesn't email me back that day, but this will make sense in a second. I sent out an email. I'm trying to-- and I email that girl who I met on the plane because she says, "What? Oh, tell her you're up." Which is fine. Email that girl where I'm at with the plane. I'm like, "Hey, this is where I'm staying and everything else just in case you know you're around." And then I jog back over the bridge and I see those three girls that I was flirting with over. I come over and try to flirt with them again a little bit like I need it. And this little guy comes out. The guy's like, "5, 3, comes out, maybe a buck 10 soaking wet." And he's going off with me. The guy's got a lot of confidence, right? He's pushing me yelling at me, like certainly me while I'm talking to the girl, but your brother doesn't want you guys to have any friends or whatever whatever. And keeps pushing me. He keeps pushing me. Finally, I put my backpack down and I grabbed the dude's wrist and I bent his whole wrist back. He's on the ground screaming. And now the whole crowd there is on me yelling at me and whatnot. And I realize, this guy's got allies, I'm an idiot for being right here. So I let him go and I'm about to pick up my bag, my bag's gone. And the one person I know who had it was this woman who wouldn't make eye contact with me. This old fucking lady right here, not making any eye contact with me. And I know it's under her fucking, but I'm already pissed off the whole crowd here with dipshit over here. So I'm losing my CD player, I'm losing my stuff. And I was listening to American Pie soundtrack and the CD player jogging around. That sucks. So they got my wallet on me, but I don't have everything that was in that bag was gone. And I go back to the hotel. Now this girl who I met on the plane had contacted the hotel and then I give her a call from the room. And I'm like, he coming over. She's like, well, I thought you'd be in a closer hotel and she goes, but you're going to come hang out with me. She tells the front desk person how to tell a cab driver how to get to her place. And I go downstairs, yeah, I want to do something fun. So the cab driver's driving me forever. I could have ease man. I could have easily had all my organs stolen a long time ago because I just don't care. I don't have any common sense. And we're driving forever. These aren't really roads. They're like, you know, off off the beaten path and it's all dirt and the sun's leaving. And now it's night time when I get to this house in the middle of like, it's, it was weird. It was like a bunch of houses that were built side by side. But all the walls between the houses were covered with broken glass and Bob wire between the houses. And that's the first thing I noticed. And there was a bunch of kids outside this one particular house. The girl comes out to talk to me. She does, I fucked up. I told the guy. I told everyone you're an actor. They were going to come meet you. Her coming out was a big deal. I would find that out later. She was risking a lot by coming out at night to come get a foreigner. So it's people talking, people were cocks and I didn't know anything. So I put her in a lot of danger. She talks to the cab driver, cab driver wanted like hundreds of dollars off of me. She said, give him 100 rupees and tell him the fuck off. I keep it in 100 rupees. And that guy was like, honk on yelling everything in the book at me. He was not happy. 100 rupees is a good, that's a lot of money, but I'm a foreigner so they want like a ridiculous amount. I'd go in the house, they locked the gate, they got guards outside too. And so that's just how these houses have their own guards or whatnot. That's normal in Pakistan. I go, it's a nice house. I go in this house. She goes and makes me a hamburger. Nice. She makes me hamburger fries with her weird ketchup. That would be the last good melee for a while. So I was like, all right, what are we doing today? She's like, I fucked up, I told my family, my brothers want to hang out with you. Four brothers, 24 on down to 14, come to hang out with me. And even the 14 year olds got like little stubbles growing. Everyone else already has their beards going everything else. Nice guys. I ate the burger and everything, hang out with the girl for a little bit, but I'm not allowed to hang out through it all. Now I'm hanging out with the brothers. This is not why I drove all over here, don't fucking hang out with the brothers, the fuck is this? You guys put me in bitch on a BMW, I'm right in the middle of the back seat between everyone. And all they were doing was driving around Islamabad and show me, there's KFC, there's Pizza Hut. And I'm like, yeah, great, came all the way around the world to see fast food restaurants from back home. That's awesome. And even though it was at night, I started to realize it was all dudes outside. I was like, man, this place is a cockfest. We're all the ladies like, I know that, it's not allowed out, but we're going to find one. And I was like, okay, and they were driving around, just trying to, they just joy-riding them, just joy-riding with these dudes in Pakistan, like nothing. And they did like a, not a drug deal, but an alcohol deal because alcohol is illegal in Muslim countries. And we went to like the most shady neighborhood with like one street light. And some dude runs between, like these big buildings, but there was no electricity on it. It was weird. We had a bag out with a beer inside and they did a transaction, they runs back in between these two buildings. Like, what do you guys just get? Like, I'm thinking, like, you guys got like some big time drugs, like, got some beer. And so we go to some random park where their friends meet us and they're just drinking beer. And I don't drink at all. So I'm just hanging out with these guys while they're drinking beer. And we're talking about movies I've been in and I'm like, whatever, just telling them about should I've done. And these guys are realized, like, they're talking about trying to find a girl for me to entertain me. What are you guys talking about? And they're like, well, because they wanted to gang rate a girl. They were trying to find a girl so we could gang rape her together. I thought they were kidding. They were not kidding. Their idea showing me a good time was trying to find a girl out after night so that we could all gang rape her, which is normal in Muslim culture. Well, I've heard about that happening in India. It's everywhere. It's yeah. Every Muslim country is that way. Women are not allowed outside. That's why when that girl came out at night to the cab. She put herself in danger big time right there because that brings dishonor to the family. So she can be like, that's honor killings are a real thing and they can kill you for simply dropping a piece of trash outside of a mosque because that's considered blasphemy. And you know, if somebody kills a blasphemer, they get rewarded with 70%. two virgins in heaven. So if these guys, these young boys find a woman out at night, it's not a crime to gang rapers. It's like a, at least we didn't kill her. No, no. That's the right. And then a lot of the times the girls that get gang raped have to marry their rapist. So rape is, and also punishment, punishment is, when someone does something wrong in these families, the punishment will be that that, like a daughter or a sister or a mother will be gang raped by men from a higher tribe. They're called Jergas. Jergas in Pakistan, most of Pakistan's not run by the government. Most of Pakistan's run by elders and people who are like small towns and they're called Jergas. So you've got these, these higher tribes overseen everything else. And as someone from a lower tribe does anything wrong, these guys go to like a, their own little panel decide what the punishment is. So their punishment will be, it's always saw to me on like the boys and gang rape as like a sister or a cousin or someone related to that boy who did wrong, even though they had nothing to do with whatever was considered deemed wrong. One small example was this, this 12 year old boy was seeing walking down the street with a woman from a higher tribe who was 29. While they're hanging out, I don't know. But the role has been reversed. She would have been the one being punished, but because she was from the higher tribe, the boy was being punished. So the town Jerga decided that he was going to be gangrised by 10 men from this tribe and that his sister is 18 year old sister who had nothing to do with it was going to be gangraised by 10 other men. Her father came to the council meeting and says, 10 is too many. He negotiated it down to five. Now people say, Oh God, that's, that's one of countless scenarios. It's that common. Sharia law is perverted. Sharia law is about hurting people. Now people say, well, it's only the women being gang raped. No, it's not. There's something called Choker Basie or Bakra Basie. Look at it up. It's called Dancing Boy. It's very common in Muslim cultures. It's where they put feminine boys all near them in Pakistan alone. The guesstimate nine out of 10 men have been molested by family members by uncles, neighbors and everything else because it's the right of passage. So everyone in Pakistan is gay is absolutely gay, but they don't think it's gay because it's just the way growing up. They have sex with their children. They have sex with their nephews. They have sex with their cousins and they have sex with with with donkeys and goats. It's it's not I'm not exaggerating this shit. We're hearing these stories in prison when you got there in prison. So in prison, this shit was happening in jail, like left and right. There was there was a scene eye dog that was brought into jail and they had to put the dude who was blind into his own prison cell because when he was in the barracks, everyone was having sex with his scene eye dog. These these are disgusting people and the shit that they do to each other is is barbaric and it's normal to them though. They were fucking the dog not the seeing eye guy, not the blind guy. I didn't hear about that could have been happening too, but the thing that jumped out was the blind guy, I guess, you know. There was a there was one training known training because it's homosexuality is illegal in Pakistan. I watched these guys throw homosexual people off the top of the building as punishment, but there was one guy who was in jail who was under trial and he was in two cell. He was with the hijackers. The hijackers all had their own cells. Two cell was was a it was a privileged cell because it wasn't packed. The barracks, which that was in the biggest prison of all of Pakistan. A prison called Adiala and it was only built the house 1800 prisoners, but there were 6,000 prisoners there hundreds coming and going every day. Thank God I'm an American so I'm not in the barracks. The barracks suck because the barracks have like two to 400 people in each barrack. And now there's eight buildings and they're double stacked and barracks everywhere. So you got a couple hundred people sleeping shoulder to shoulder rows and rows feet feet the head, feet the head all the way down. The 400 barracks full of all the Nigerians. Now if you're if I was in the barracks and the Nigerians, it would have been probably a bad scenario for me, especially since I'm the only American, but because I'm the only American, everyone's trying to kill me in this jail. They'd put me in a house on death row and then when a new superintendent came, I got taken off a death row after nine and a half months and they couldn't put me in the barracks because I there was a no jumping around a little bit, but there was a 5,000 rupee bounty on my head that everyone was trying to collect from who I didn't know I did. So whoever kills me gets 5,000 rupees and that rumor went throughout the whole prison. I have no idea who started that rumor, but at the time 5,000 rupee rupee was exactly 87 dollars. So that's what my life was like. It was worth and everyone was trying to collect it. So they put me in one, they put me in two cell and two cells was with like political prisoners, like the leader of the Shias at the time was in the jail, was in jail with me and he was like in charge of 5,000 different Muslims. That's a it's a pretty good army there, but that was considered a very small sect. Most of the people were there for corruption, like national accountability bureau. A class were like the future prime minister and the future president of Pakistan would be those are like the top tier politicians that were in jail. But in two cell, that's where I was up. And we had in one cell, that's where the hijackers were at. The hijackers from the Pan Am hijacking of 86 that was responsible for 23 deaths. Those guys would end up becoming my best friends because they're Palestinians and now Palestinians are still considered foreigners and foreigners and jail have to stand together because of the Pakistanis. So it doesn't matter who make you're lucky if you got you got allies in jail. I was lucky to have those guys as my brothers in jail. And you witnessed homosexuals being thrown off the roof in jail? Yes. So in one cell was where a trainee, his name was Mombati, which met Candle at the time. Mombati was in jail with us, but he got his own cell. He looked very feminine, long hair, like to be put it on the makeup. They had to lock the inner gate and the outer gate because they didn't want the guards going and getting blow jobs from him at night. Mombati was only allowed out of a cell to come eat with me and the other hijackers because they knew we weren't trying to fuck him. He could cook though. So we were buying all the food from the canteen. So he cooked the food for us and he would eat with us and everything else. He didn't want to get out of jail because his family was trying to locate him so they can kill him for an honor killing. So when his family was trying to bail him out of jail, he was adamantly fighting going out of jail. Me and the hijackers raised the money to bail him out of jail on our own so that he could go and have a fighting chance. My guess is he got caught. He's dead because as a matter of it's the family or somebody else is going to kill him. That's just the way it is. If it's weird, these guys are everywhere, but if you come around the cross-pronged person, you're dead. Like I said, these guys are all great for each other. They're all molesting each other. And then they will kill them because it's her own, but yet they're all part of it. It's weird. They will jaywalk across the street to a protest about someone who jay walked, you know, the do as I say not as I do mentality. And I would watch the people get thrown off the top tower who homosexual. That was their punishment. They would get to go to jail with those guys who were in the barracks. So the inmates who was getting tossed off the roof. The homosexuals were getting tossed off the roof and they were being pushed off by the guards there because that was their punishment. Okay, so this wasn't an official sanctioned execution. No, they weren't. Those were their punishments. After they were found guilty. Yes. Okay, and their guilt was being a homosexual. Correct. Okay. And then they would bury the women who were having sex or pre-marital sex up to their heads and they would have everyone else, all the other women and little boys, the rocks at them. And that was inside of the jail. Yes. Where you were at. Yes. I was in the biggest prison in all of Pakistan. We had a hospital. We had the death cells. We had school. So they had workshops. They had cantinas held. They had nurseries as far as like for plants. They had farms. They got all the barracks. They got a big mosque. There was a city inside this whole prison. Wow. And this stuff would happen inside the prison, but it would happen all the time, all outside the prison. So you're constantly always always reading about it too. Now, see the things when the the first year in jail sucked from me by far because I had earings. I was on death row. I didn't know what really was going to happen. But my biggest weapon in prison was learning the language. So I was learning 20 to 40 words a day and I was doing flash cards. So my grandmother was shit, but people started to understand me and I started to understand people too. So I was able to have conversations and people started seeing me as a human being. But up until that first year, everyone was trying to kill me. The guards thought I was Brendan Frazier. No shit. They thought I was the hero of the mummies because that's how they portrayed me and the stupid newspapers because I worked on the movie Scorpion King as a stuntman. So they thought I was Brendan Frazier, which meant they thought I was a multi-millionaire. So everyone kept trying to get money out of me. The guards, the guards got money out of me one time when I was asleep. The only way they can get the best of me was when I was asleep and they tried many times and you have to fight back. You have to. Otherwise, you're going to starve. They only feed you twice a day with a couple lentil soup and a roti, which is like a chapati, a tortilla, basically. And that's not enough. And I was 225 when I went to jail and I'd lost all this weight, all of a sudden in a very short amount of time. You can buy money from the canteen. You need money to survive in that jail. If you can get $50 into that prison a month, you can live like a king. You can't. But the guards, when they know you have money, you become the target and all the guards attention focused on me. 100% because I thought I was a multi-millionaire. And when the embassy would come and bring me my money, they'd bring me my 3000 rupees which was 50 bucks and hand it to me in that night. The guards would usually come to my cell and force and try to find the money and they got it out of me one time. And that's when I started sleeping with the Miami. The time they got it out of me, it was bad. I was fucked up. And literally, I wrote to the embassy the first time it happened. And I was like, I need a book so I can learn the language. They got me a Hindi English book. Because Hindi and Urdu are a lot of like, there was no Urdu English book, but they had Hindi English books. And so then I started learning the language. The very next time the embassy came, I wanted, he was going to try to give me the poem, was that. little guy off saw who was the Pakistani interpreter, he was going to try to palm and I was like, nope, I counted it. I counted 3000 rupees. I wanted the guards to see this shit. I needed it to happen. And that night I put everything I could underneath the blanket and I put some dental floss on the wire of the light that was always on and I just hit in the corner. And I didn't hear them unlock the door but I heard them unlatch it. And when they opened the door three guards came in and started beating but they thought was me sleeping and I pulled it complete blackout and just started throwing haymakers in the dark. Now it's connected. And you can fight the guards. It's not like an extra charge. You're not going to be able to charge with the salt and herbs. You have to fight the guards. Otherwise you will starve to death. Now the reason why the guards are making life suck so bad for you and Jill is because they only get paid 6000 rupees a month from the government. That's a hundred dollars. But you know how much they have to pay just to work inside the prison? 15,000 rupees. Yeah. They're paying $250 for the opportunity to work inside the jail. Because they assume they can just extort and make the money back. That's where the money is. So they're either beating it out of you. They're extorting it out of you or they're working for you. Now I don't speak or do at the time. Now everyone thinks I'm a millionaire and they know I got money. So they're all coming after me because what am I going to say? I'm going to report these guys who's going to listen to me because no one going to understand me. Now I'm throwing haymakers in the dark here and I'm lasting 40 minutes. The entire prison knows I'm partying at night. I'm selling chan. I'm making everyone laugh and everything else. The guards maybe 40, 45 minutes later. Doesn't of them are dragging me to Kassori. Kassori is punishment sale. You know how in the movies here we see the hole. Well the hole here is a nice luxury apartment compared to the hole in Pakistan because there you got light. You got water. They still feed you. Kassori in Pakistan is the size of a closet and the only time you see light is when they feed you one time a day that doll and that and that roti and also when it's your turn to be brought out to have the bottom of your feet beaten. They like to beat your feet with the cane. They got a real foot fetish over in Pakistan. So they beat your feet with a cane. Yeah. How many times? How many lashings? I would spend 132 days in Kassori the entire time I was in Pakistan. The longest time I spent in a row was eight weeks. Wow. In the complete dark. So it's like out of a movie from the 50s like Shawshank Redemption. Like how America prisons used to be. You see nothing. Except it's the size of a closet. So you have to like curl up like an egg and you fill a little hole in the corner and that's just where you're gonna use your restroom and everything. So did your cell fill up with your shit and piss? I mean it can. I was fortunate that it never did. Yeah. I was fortunate because during monsoon season my cell and two cell would fill up but I was fortunate that when during monsoon season monsoon season when I was in Kassori it would get bad. There'd be but I'd never like because when you sleep you have to sleep up so they would get wet but it wouldn't like drown you're nothing you're just in the water in the muck and all the sewage and everything. Is there a mattress? No. Not in Kassori. There's no mattresses in the prison either. You have to sleep on blankets. Okay. Did you have blankets in Kassori? No. You're in just you and you're your clothes. Okay. And then so after eight weeks your beer I mean what do you look like? What is your what do you see? I don't know. I didn't have I honestly don't know. I didn't I didn't have a mirror in there. So the reason why I was in there for eight weeks in a row was that was after because I that was it was it was related to that time because when I needed them to see it well I spent two weeks and I was I was supposed to be in there for two weeks and then when I got out of Kassori I went straight back to myself and one of the guards was there who messed with me and he says also I'm like him and so I hit him right in his face as hard as I couldn't like 15 minutes later I was back in Kassori for six more weeks that was the eight weeks in a row. After I was let out after that eight weeks the guards are like just go to your fucking room because I was ready to fight again if I had to but I needed to make that message that I wasn't a target because these guys were making me starve and if I had to keep losing weight and I couldn't keep my money I would have died anyways so I had to make that message and that stand there. So so then after that they weren't robbing you and they were bringing you your food. They weren't going at they weren't coming to my cell at night no they were still trying to get money out of me but they weren't coming to my cell at night because I was ready to rock okay so were there victims in there who would just let themselves starve to death or people who people died all the time at Pakistan from guards from other prisoners from starvation yeah people died all the time and they just let people starve to death in cells yeah yeah you said guards would get killed or no I never seen a guard get killed there when other inmates get killed yes I see now that the inmates get killed they watch people get hung I watch people get stoned I watch people get thrown off the the barracks um who watched the uh which a guy get lit on fire uh I had to kill a couple guys in jail uh it was self-defense over about what they came at you well it's someone put a 5,000 rupee bounty on my head so people were trying to uh to kill me so I had I had to hit on me one day where I had three knives sticking out of me and I had a guy underneath me who was popping his eye out and I felt like somebody else coming so I was getting ready for a kick in the head and it was the one one of the hijackers ripping the dude off my back and the other hijackers surrounded me so those guys are saving my life well big crowd was happening this was during a big riot that was happening when the riots would happen it was free for all everyone against everyone and I would always try to find a little sanctuary at one cell to hang out with the hijackers so we could all watch each other's backs right and uh I had I was working out in my um I had a little garden that I've been working on in one and two so and I would be out there during the summer days by myself just fixing the yard I was too hot for everyone else they gave me something to do and I enjoyed it and this dude hopped the wall and I didn't know what he was doing and then he came like walking towards me all crazy and then you can kind of see when someone's demeanor that there's something wrong so I knew something was wrong and I looked in his hands he was palm in something that dude tried to stab me um and so I was holding his holding his body away from me I hit him with the rock and I was holding his body away from me while he was trying to stab and I didn't want him to stab me backwards so I snapped his neck and I didn't I didn't mean to but he was so fragile um I was the first time I killed someone in prison and uh I was crying I was crying when that happened uh Fahot I heard Fahot's voice Fahot was one of the hijackers he was in one cell he reached and he he was over he's looking for the wall he goes you okay and I was trying to explain what happened and he is exact words were fucking pack he's he hopped over the wall Fahot was one of my best friends in jail and uh and I just want to remind everyone the the hijackers of Palestinians yeah that's right yeah so how far by the way notoriously good people I've heard the hijackers and the Palestinians oh I mean it's good and evil everywhere um so Fahot chopped over the wall and we lifted the body back over the wall and he knew where to put it and we put the body in a sewage there was a um a manhole cover we had to both move it out and then we put the body in and he's like you want lunch like sure so I went and got lunch and then at that night I was thinking like the guards were gonna come to my cell they were gonna know I did it I was scared as hell um they found the dude a couple days later and they they deemed it a suicide hmm wow did you what was the feeling like I mean you said you were crying but were you feeling numb were you no no I it's it haunts me every day I went to jail for a crime I didn't commit and I I came out of murder that's how I look at it uh then you know I don't know what's gonna happen in the in the next life but uh I don't know I'm sure I'm gonna I don't know how I'm gonna answer for that yeah I'd like to think that I didn't have to do that but and a sad way I did and yeah sounds like he would he himself was starving you say we don't frail he was probably that's probably why it took the the money trying to kill you I'd never seen him before that damn damn that is insane that's insane and just imagine the the guy who sent you up what ray yeah who's a real name Jasmine Manassian six months after I was arrested I'm still on death row um a DEA agent comes to the prison first and only time I'll see him and he brought me two sets of pictures each set had six photos on it mug shots he says do you recognize anyone on the first one I was like now and on the second one I was like that's Ray right there and he was like right in the middle I want to say top I don't it could have been bottom but regardless his face is there I knew him right away and he tells me what happened he goes well ray a Swedish girl doing the same thing that I was doing was lost her luggage at LAX airport but she continued on to her hotel and in Glendale well they found drugs in her suitcase and they knew that who she was because she was trying to get her stuff so they set up a sting and they went to her hotel her ray or ray who I'd known as um or who's real name is Rasmic Manassian but I know him as Rhaegazarian was arrested her and the Swedish girl were both arrested Ray posted bell under the name Rasmic Manassian my mom at the time had a private investigator looking for Rhaegazarian no one could find Rhaegazarian because that wasn't his real name I'd known this man for a couple years I considered him one of my best friends and I never knew his real name that's why we couldn't find him everyone didn't believe that I was innocent because once again Possession is 10/10. of the law. Now, all of a sudden, I got a DEA agent meeting with me at the front of the prison. I've been in death row now six months. And I'm like seeing Rey because this is great. And then I could see I said, so what happens now? And he tells me the story about the Swedish girl because my mom and everyone else had come forward saying we were making these trips, we didn't know. Because her story matched mine and several others, she was deemed a dupe and released without being charged in less than two weeks back to her country. And this was in the United States. Yes, okay. But Rey, Gizarian, because my mom's private investigator was like, this is the same guy that set up Eric and sure enough, they said that is the same guy. Now they knew he had alias is they re-arrested him, denied him bond. So at least by my being in jail, that Swedish girl wasn't in jail and now they got the real guy. So now I'm excited. I'm like, so what's happening now? And then I could just tell from the DEA agents, the meaner that this is bad news. He was looking down. He's like, I've never seen this before. I've never actually met someone innocent. And he says, if this was happening in America, you'd be going home tonight. But because it's in Pakistan, you have to go through the legal system. I go, I'm on death row. What do you mean you guys can't do anything? They go, America has a strict no, they have strict policy. They don't get involved. If it's narcotics-related, they said that if it's visa violation or a murder case, they'll get involved. I was like, pick a person. We could change that right now. But because it was narcotics-related, I had to still go to the legal system. So this is the first time I was hearing from the embassy themselves, or the DEA guy, who I get, I mean, he technically wasn't the embassy is DEA. That it's not that they can't help me. It's that they won't help me. They could help me, but they're not gonna because they have a strict policy. And I know for a fact that America could have done something there because they didn't do it for, they wanted to do it for one of their own, but they did it for a couple hundred Iraqis when we were trying to liberate Iraq. They were finding all the Iraqi prisoners at all, the countries around who were deemed refugees running away from Iraq because it was a monster. But they weren't all refugees. There were murderers and rapists and drug smugglers and corruption. Pakistan just wanted to get rid of all these prisoners as America's nickel. So they got a couple hundred Iraqi prisoners sent back to Iraq on America's nickel and then they came back a few months later and got another couple dozen to send them back too. So they did that for another country's prisoners, but they wouldn't do that for one of their own. It's so you could have killed somebody. You could have gone to Pakistan and probably raped a girl and killed her and the American embassy would have now would have done something or at least tried to help you. I know you think you're being funny or fecescious, but the truth is you can legally hunt people in Pakistan. How's that? Because under Sharia law, if the victim's family members forgive you, then I'll offer gives you and all is forgotten. So if I want to kill you, I'm going to go talk to your brothers and your brother and your father and make a deal. How much is it going to cost for me at you guys to forgive me for killing for killing you? And it's usually 60,000 to 100,000 rupees, which is less than $2,000. You're negotiating with your victim's family. Yes. And then as long as they forgive you, I'll offer gives you. It's all you get. And I would see, there was this British dude, British accent, everything else, but he was Pakistani. He had two daughters who were growing up westernized. One was a 25 year old doctor. The other was 20 Muslim girls, but they grew up with a Western mentality. He told them that we're going back to Pakistan for a family vacation. Well, he didn't tell them is that he hated how they grown up westernized and he had arranged marriages for both of them. Well, their older daughters like, fuck off. I'm not marrying anyone. Go to hell. This brought shame on the family. Now he's got to do an honor killing and he shot and killed his own 25 year old daughter doctor right in the face. For two weeks, I heard this man complain about being stuck in jail. The victim's family members have forgiven me. And I'm like, yeah, who are those? Well, my sons, my wife. He stayed two weeks in jail for killing his own daughter before they released him. His 20 year old daughter, she was sold. That's normal. And that dude lived in England. That dude was from England. Right. And his embassy probably spoke up for him. But the point is like, specifically he was an American. No, he was a burden. Yeah, I know. That's horrendous. I'm just talking about the absurdity of being an American who whose own government won't step in and try to help them. They won't know for drugs. But you could murder somebody. That's what the D.A. agent said. How true that is. I didn't really care to find out. She just told me we're Israeli. They would have had you out and have it have been nice. Yeah, look at his split. Sure. And then, you know, what you don't, you can't prove it and another charge on you. Right. Okay. So you're charged at the airport, your cop charge at the airport. Okay. You're, you're found with it was like a kilo and a half. 3.6 kg of opium. Okay. And the walls of the suitcase that I never saw him take out. So when the guy says, what is this? I said, he's holding it. And it goes, this is Alfion. I said, why are you showing me this? He says, because it came out of your suitcase. I said, I need to speak with the American embassy and this you can't help you. We're going to hang you after 5 o'clock prayer. Well, now I think I'm dead. So I figure I'm going to make my life worse something. And all I'm going to do is find a phone and warn the others because I'm not the only one making these trips. All they wanted to do was call my manager so that he could because everyone knew what I was doing. But I wanted to make sure that the other guys at the gym who were making these trips would know what it is that we're really being used to do. So I went blasting through these guys. I went into the hallway. Someone shot up the hallway with a bunch of other people in it. I barricaded myself in another office down the hall. I put all the tables and finally cabinets and everything else. I was squat pressing into the table. All these guys are all trying to get in. No one could get in. There's no windows though. I found a phone and I'm trying to call out calling 911 zero. I can't get out of the airport. Nothing. No one can get in. There's so around that I'm like, you can't get in. Give me someone from the embassy. I felt like forever. I honestly don't remember how long it was. I hear banging on the door. Eric out. It's like a day that you want to speak to an American. Is there any from the embassy? DEA. I'm not opening the door. I'm being stooped in 21 now. I'm like, all right, prove it. I said, where are you from? Like I said, Texas. I'm thinking like everyone knows Texas. I said, uh, who's your favorite football team? The guy says Dallas and my cowboys, they suck, you know? The guys, if you want to speak to us or not. I said, they said they're going to hang me after five o'clock prayer and then someone that was with them was talking to guards and then and or do and then he goes reluctantly because they were kidding. I don't know how you kid about some shit like that. I really don't because at the time it felt pretty fucking real and I was, you know, beyond scared. So I open the door. Guns are all on me and everything else. Tall DEA agent because were you willing to talk to us? Yes. Absolutely. Let's talk. So I get brought to a different part of the airport, but by the Pakistani guards and they're like three on each arm and people are putting like their fingers on my back. So it looks like a dozen people are walking me across and they bring me to this other room where there's three DEA agents in the Pakistani guy. It's his desk. He didn't say shit, but there's DEA agent, DEA agent, a couple of chairs on the walls and I'm telling my whole story. Like I was Russian. Now these guys are trying to like catch me and I got you a moment like asking me a question and be halfway through an answer that this guy asked me a different question trying to talk to this guy and this guy is like, Hey, how long you been using man? You drug addict? No, I don't go. I said, I don't do drugs. I don't even drink. Come on, everyone smokes in this guy. Come on, everyone smokes pop. Like, no, let's just you and the guys like, why why Sweden? Like I go, when I go back to Sweden, because you get the picket country, because I'm telling you get the picket country in the market, guys, like why Sweden? Now, like when you go back to Sweden, you get to hookup with girls and whatnot. I got some friends there and the guys like, what's their names, huh? What's their names? I'm like, you're not their type. You know, like, they're stupid. They were trying to catch me in the line. And I'm giving them all the information about Reagan and everything else, but they want people who live in Pakistan. They want to names or addresses. They wanted it just like, they don't want to do any research. I'm like, guys, I get it. I'm screwed. All right, but give me the benefit of the doubt. Other people are making these trips. And I'm like, and I told this guy that, and then he's like, oh, we're going to go through everything. And I was getting mad. I was getting really mad because clearly they didn't believe a fucking word I was saying. I'm scared. And I, this is all being thrown at me at the last second. And these guys, I'm clearly don't believe it, because they're trying to twist all my fucking words. Finally, I'm like, Adam, just call my mom. She'll tell you everything that's happening. Make sure that the other people don't make these trips. And the guy is like, the one guy put his hand in my chest and he said, why are you, why are you so scared? Are we talking about it? Because you're lying to us. Because you're an actor, right? Yeah, I'm not a good actor. But yeah, I'm scared. I was told I'm going to be hung hung. And this whole scenario that I am a savage country. Right. And caught with fucking drugs. Also someone tried to shoot me already. So it's like, yeah, I believe these guys, because remember the guy said to me, because you think you're a tough guy with this country is going to show you how weak you really are. And then I was, I was hitting the head by someone's fucking rifle and dragged out of there. They brought me to the suitcase that I was there, except now all my stuff was thrown in that suitcase. My stuff that I was carrying. So instead of all the jackets being alone, they threw everything from that suitcase, all my stuff, my wallet, my cell phone. Can I ask you this real quick? Yeah. Did you check the, the, the luggage? So after the night, I just want to rewind to the night that you were hanging out with all these guys. You ended up. That was, okay, that was the Monday. That was Monday. Okay, so you know, I was a gang raping a woman. Correct. Now I do. We did not and we wouldn't we'd never would have That Tuesday something I drank. I got Mona zoom is revenge. I was sick sick as fuck So I'm back at the hotel which I had to one of their friends brought me back to the hotel who I felt bad for that guy Because I felt like he was like me and you guys are just using me for my car That's what it felt like cuz he wasn't with us for the night, but then god he brought me back to the hotel I was sick that Tuesday. I was sick and I didn't eat or drink anything that Tuesday. I don't even think I wore pants. That's how bad it was Wednesday same thing Thursday, I was starting to feel better Thursday I was able to go get myself like a bottle of Sprite, you know, paid 10 rupees for a bottle of Sprite And I was very like I was frugal with my money cuz I pens put that 360 that first day the rest of the week Though I didn't know how I was gonna do it, but I wasn't eating cuz I was just sick throwing up shit and everywhere Thursday, I'm feeling better. Thursday. I went all the way back to the internet cafe that I had found and I saw an email from Missy The girl that I'd love since I was fuck and in that email It was a massive email. She sent it to everyone and in that email She was putting out there how she had her mom had died from cancer and she was in a bad spot She was just letting everyone know what was going on in her life and the second I read that email I was like yes burning hell bitch fuck yeah her mom was the reason why her and I had never been together her mom had hated me Since second grade because she was a teacher's aid and I sprayed her with glue and through her sweater and a mud puddle But she was hurting me. She put her like her nails in the back of my neck. She was a bitch She hated me because I was a problem kid. I was a class clown and I was always the center of attention. I get it But I'm still a kid More of that story in my book for sure, but Missy's mom was the reason why Missy and I can never date the girl that I loved my whole life I can never date because of her mom so now it's Valentine's day. It's February 14, 2002 and I'm reading this email like holy shit This is God being man finally a win now. I got a chance to go be with the girl. I've been pursuing my entire life And what would happen the next morning as I would get arrested in Pakistan for a fucking crime. I didn't commit And when all this shit was going down, I literally heard laughing from I was like, oh you bitch I mean, what are the odds? What are the fucking odds? This you have no idea I don't know if you've ever like been madly in love with someone But I love this girl more than anything like I said she was my motivation for working out for studying longer for Trying to take it to get in and to stunts and acting because I wanted to be someone that you would impress her I don't know why but for this girl man, I couldn't win her over. She's the only girl that can't win ever And every time we got close her mom would make her life hell according to her her mom just hated me And like I said and would but but so she would avoid the drama and stay away from me And I was always pursuing her and then now I see the email that her mom had died and I'm gonna ask whole And I wanted to go be with this girl and I had the opportunity and less than 24 hours later I would be fine from my life. It's not wild. It's crazy Payback for that feeling of joy had someone's horrible cancer death. Yeah Yeah, when did you go get the bag? That didn't go get the bag. They came to the airport that they know they came to my hotel room That morning that Friday morning February 15th And they wanted me just to go down to the cab. I'm like now I gotta look at all this stuff first So I was adamant about getting them to come up to my hotel room with everything And that's when I learned it was only one suitcase and normally it was two suitcases And the suitcase was light and so something was wrong. I thought that I thought maybe they were Shorting ray and so I even called ray from my hotel room. I said hey man. It's only one suitcase It was like seven pieces. That was it. That's that's not normal. I normally have like 20 pieces like thick leather jackets and everything else And it was always two suitcases and I go it's only one suitcase and he was like This is the first trip. It's want to make sure it works good. That's normal. I go really like it didn't make sense to me Yeah, like how are you going to make your money back? Yeah, off of seven pieces of that's yeah So but instead of this being a big red flag I was happy that wasn't have to lug around all these suitcases now And then I wasn't going to pay all this extra money at the customs right as you got to pay for the wait So you checked it though you couldn't visibly see any I went through everything I went through everything and I also called it back up You didn't see any manipulation in the no because because that was a that was it was a smoke screen It was the suitcase the suitcase looked like an empty suitcase when it was open absolutely empty suitcase Why those things look like newspapers because they were so thin and vacuum sealed they were in the walls of the suitcase So it looks like an empty suitcase. It fills like an empty suitcase three three point six KG which is Like eight pounds people how do you not know? Suitcases not that eight pounds is nothing dude girls purses like 50 fucking pounds Exactly exactly eight pounds is nothing Um And then I would go and find out that that was full of drugs and then I was DEA shows up I tell them everything I know they say these they're gonna you know this country as a way of making you These the guys like this country's gonna find a make have a way to show you how weak you really are Well, I didn't know what they were talking about and then I got hit with a gun got put in front of the The stuff that they put on my stuff My the suitcase that had the drugs in it and then all the clothes on top of including the stuff that I had with me to make it look like mine even my DVD player which I had a portable DVD player which are like unheard of back in the day was in there And they took photos now like an asshole I'm thinking like once they get a hold of my mom and everyone comes forward and they Rest the road drugs smuggler uh, I'll be out of here. I'm thinking two three days tops. That's it I'm like all right treat it like an adventure Eric. Let's just enjoy it So I'm like putting my arms around these guards. I'm like taking photos like fuck it. I'm mint. I'm innocent So I'm not gonna act like I'm I'm I'm a guilty at all I'm doing everything wrong. All right, so in the newspapers I look like a fucking douchebag right here because I am a fucking douchebag But I'm an innocent douchebag, but no one here knows that they bring me to this lockup this uh airport lockup And they put me in the cell with a bunch of guys Someone says something to me and I don't know what he's saying And someone else goes what country don't win America Wrong wrong answer next thing I know I'm trucking old men around throwing them in different directions and everything else because these guys Don't like that. I'm an American the guards see what's happening. They put me in another cell. Okay Uh, and his other cell there's There's like one dude in there and they got a picture of some guy up there I don't know. Yeah, I still don't know to this day who this person was Sales dirty, but it's just me and another guy in the cell. He's got his own blankets and everything there. He's speaking a little English, so and uh This girl from the embassy shows up names Kristia Gore. She shows up to the embassy and she goes uh She goes uh Eric out and I was like, well, shit if I know and I was gonna meet someone like you would have gotten arrested a long time ago And she's like, yeah, he's from California And I'll stick in like all right cool the embassy's here now all eyes are looking at this girl because she is a bright spot in a very dark place She's with all of the little interpreter from the embassy and uh She's like, how are you doing? I'm like great never better. So like really? I'm like No, I just got fucking arrested. I tell her everything was happening and whatnot. She tells me that I'm gonna be presented back in front of the um Magistrate on Tuesday. This is Friday Like Tuesday. What are you talking about before that happens She says is there any you don't have to talk to us and I go no, I absolutely want to talk to you So I'm telling them everything and everything and I tell call my mom She says she'll come back Tuesday. That's what she says. She'll come back Tuesday And she leads She was back within a couple hours So whatever I said to my mom or whatever they said to my mom was the exact same thing I had told her So all of a sudden she started to realize wait a minute this guy Might actually be innocent. So she had brought back a coke and a pizza Like a little pizza box Pizza hut, but Pakistani pizza hut is hot spicy as shit Um then she says you're gonna be presented in front of the Magistrate tomorrow You know Well, so what does that mean? She goes you're gonna it's called physical or man She goes they figured they can't get the truth out of you. They can beat it out of you. That's like Like what does that mean? What are they gonna do? She's like they're gonna torture you rip. This is the embassy telling me this Okay, uh I was like laughing. I remember I was laughing. I was like this trip. This gets better and better And that's like a technical term so like they're legally allowed to torture you It's called it's it's called physical or man so The next morning I go to the go to the lower course to see the judge and I don't understand what's being said because it's like there's people everywhere throngs with people I'm in like these barbaric chains as I'm being led through the crowds People are trying to ask me for money even though I'm in hand. I'm a prisoner And I get brought into this like little rickety shack and it's like stacked papers dust everywhere the The tables like up to here on my neck even though I'm standing up and the judge sits high up And there's everyone's like shoulder to shoulder. It's very like little so I don't know who's on my right I don't know who's on my left and they start talking. I'm about to be led away when christy goes and starts talking to The judge in her do And I don't know what she's saying but at the time, but then when I'm walking away I was like so what's happening because I'm being led back to the you know the lockup And they're moving me fast while she's walking and talking with me She says they wanted 10 days. I got you down to three and I was like I could have lasted 10 days is she goes, "You're welcome." And I was like, "Thank you." They wanted 10 days of physical remand. People died here in physical remand all the time. It's always in the newspaper. So I went straight to physical remand actually. - So she was negotiating like your lawyer, this woman from the embassy with the judge. - She wasn't supposed to get involved whatsoever. - So it's like it's a bail hearing. - I guess. - You're negotiating with the judge about the length of your torture. - Correct. - So these guys are trying to get it for 10 days. She heard that it was 10 days and immediately stepped in. She wasn't supposed to get involved. She was just supposed to observe. I'm glad she did, obviously. And then I was taken to this like, it was a customs lockup, but we went down into the basement and you could hear everyone screaming down there. There was like one light down in this tunnel, which you could see the stairs to the other side. So there was multiple entrances, but it was like a cross and then rooms on everything and you can hear everything. And then when the room opened, there was a light in the middle. So they had a fish tank with like a seesaw on it, like a wood platform seesaw. They had chains in the ceiling. They had. It looked like one of those paddle things, like the machine part of it, but it was just wires. And they had a chair that can go on its back. And it was just like a dungeon-y room. And it was just real dirty. So they would ask me a bunch of questions, who gave these drugs to you? What is your name, where are you from? - And they're speaking in English? - One guy is, there's two guards there that this is their job, you know? It's just a job. They're not, it would just make sure I was there and time me up or chain me up. And then I'd ask or answer these questions, but they wouldn't get anywhere. Who gave you the drugs? Where are they, where are they addresses? They started asking me questions. I did not have the answers to. I'm telling them about Ray back in America. They wanted to know people here. And then they would, you know, they would slap, beat, hit, and then they go for the feet. Yeah, I love the feet. They started beating the feet. They beat the crap out of my feet. How does it feel getting your feet beaten? 'Cause it's fun, it's great. Is it tickle or is it painful as shit? I mean, we get through it. Let's do it now. I mean, I'm not even asking that in jest because yeah, I mean, is it like it hit on your elbow? Like how do you compare the pain of getting hit on your feet compared to like, like what do you compare that to? Is it a stinging, or no, it stings. 'Cause they're doing it with the cane, they're doing repetitively, and you can't move. Your feet bleed? Yes. My feet bleed, my feet, when I walk, still are fucked up from bone splints and everything else. My feet hurt and they get swollen, so I can't walk too comfortably. It's extremely painful, but it's more demeaning than, you know, it's not like the worst pain you'll ever feel. It just felt like I was getting beat by my parents for the weekend. You know, so it hurts, it's, it's bearable, it sucks. You know, I'm not gonna pass out from that. No way, that would have been nice, actually. It sucks, and they just do it repetitively then they ask you the same fucking questions. And then they go and they drown you. They put you on the stupid thing and they drown you. In the fish tank? In the fish tank, but they put you in your back and then they lift it and then you get drowned in it. The crazy thing is like, I think like October, the year before, I've been watching that show, Fear Factor, and this guy won the first episode with some out of shape bartender who held, who's smoking right before the challenge. And he held his breath for a minute and 13 seconds. So I was like, fuck, I'm gonna get on the show. He won $50,000, I don't want to go $50,000. So I was actually adamantly training myself from that one first episode that I just seen a few months earlier for a show that I thought maybe I could absolutely get on, but I never got on. And I got it to where I could hold my breath comfortably for almost three minutes. And I'll be holding my breath at a stoplight before I went to bed and the shower just randomly. And it was crazy because I'm laughing internally because I'm like, well, fuck, are the odds. And so I didn't let these guys know that this was too easy for me. But I mean, I saw him like, coming out. You know, making it back, 'cause I don't want them to know that I can hold my breath for a lot longer than that they're holding me under there. They're holding me under there for about a minute each time. Then they bring me over, and they hook me up and start turning up the electricity. And they hang me up like a punching bag and go rocky. I mean, it's all between all this stuff. It's always the same fucking questions. Where'd you get it from? What's your name? What's their address? What's their number? And I'm talking-- - Did you give them raised number? - They gave them everything about raised. They didn't give a fuck, it's raised in America. They want the people here in Pakistan. On day three, they just wanted me to admit the drugs were mine. That's it. They had pain, but it stopped. I never admitted anything. Day three, the guards were actually showing respect for me because I was taking it, and I was cool with it. What the guards are just doing their jobs. It's just what they do in Pakistan. You know, I don't know whether, I don't think I got special treatment at all. - And so people, and other people are next to you. I'm imagining-- - And yeah, I heard other cells. - Yeah. - And whatnot. - People screaming. - But I never saw. - That must-- that's so terrifying. I must be like the most terrifying is hearing the screams of other people as you're being led toward your own fate. - Yeah, I guess it was. I don't really remember, but I was so pissed off about what was happening to me. I was thinking about getting my fucking hands on Ray the whole time. So rather than being scared, I was mad. I was pissed off. So I think that was helping me a little bit. And then when these guys are talking to me, their assholes, I know they're not gonna let them figure it. And the guys hitting me, I'm like, fuck you, asshole. You know, like, what the fuck? 'Cause I'm innocent, I'm not guilty. And so I'm being tortured for information I don't fucking have. It sucks. Now let's go back a bit. When I was eight years old, I was run over by a school bus. So people think that what happened to me in Pakistan was the worst thing that ever happened to me. No, it sucked, but it wasn't even close. Worst thing that ever happened to me is being run over by a damn school bus. When I was eight years old, I didn't walk for two years. My pelvis was smashed like a glass jar. I only knew what pain was. Like I said, between eight and 15, I had 52 surgeries. I'm the first person on earth that had their urethra severed and reconnected. So my doctor's history boaks his patient zero. And all I knew, I was told I never walk again. I was a fucking wedge bus draw. All I did was work out at the gym and work out with the college football team from 14 until I was a senior in high school. So I had stats that lasted this day. I have a record in California that's 20 years old. 147 tackles for a defensive end in 11 game. Those are video game numbers. They'll never be broken. But it's because I always trained with the college football team from 14. So when I got on the field with kids, it was easy. Now, I was a wedge bus draw. I was crazy. I was a stunt man. I was in love with the girl that was never going to be with me. So I was so arrogant and full of myself. So everything that these guys are doing to me was nothing I had an early experience. I said if you knew pain, you were an underdog. I could hold my breath. Them beating the bottom of my feet sucked. But my mom used to take the belt to me like it was religious. I used to give my mom money after she spanked me because I was just as a fuck you. That's how I was. And so you can't hurt me worse than I've ever been hurt. The bus accident did all that for me. And so I only know pain. But I'm in a situation that don't fucking belong and so I'm pissed off. Well, and that's kind of keeping some adrenaline going. It's keeping you from giving up. 100%. I tell people that if you ever get arrested in another country, don't waste your phone call on the embassy. Order a pizza because you're not going to get fed during interrogation. The only time I got to eat was that pizza and that coke that the girls-- Christie from the embassy brought me. When I finally got brought back to the customs lockup, because now I'm fucked up and pissed, I'm tired. I'm worn out. I'm hungry. It was just three days. That's after-- well, yeah. So that Monday night, Christie came back to come see me that night and she brought some douchebag from the army, I guess, who was doing security at the embassy. And they let me use a phone to call my mom. So my mom, like, telling her what's up. She's already been informed. She's already trying to get a private investigator trying to find Reykjavarian. I'm like, look, I'm doing fine. She's like, how are you doing? I'm doing just fine. Obviously, I'm telling her. I'm like, mom, I didn't do this. And she's like, I know you didn't do this. But douchebag from the embassy, the military, dude. After I got off the phone, he's like, hey, not-- just going to tell you right now. Just be honest, throw yourself at the mercy of the court. Be honest, don't lie to them. Maybe they'll go easy on them. I'm like, fuck you. How are you? I didn't fucking do this. He's like, yeah, OK, whatever, man. And I'm like, I'm getting-- I'm getting mouthing off to this, dude. Because he's been an asshole. I'm not what I want to hear in this situation right now. But Christie said some shit that I thought was great. Like, I needed to hear it. She says to me right then and there. She goes, Eric, I believe. And I was like, really? Because I was shocked, because I don't know this girl. But just hearing her say that she believed me in this situation. And she's been tortured for three fucking days. And you know, things-- well, I thought I would have already been out by now. But I'm not. Now I'm on-- that's Monday. I was arrested Friday. So for her to say that was sort of a fuck you to him for her, because he was there for her, clearly. He wasn't there for me. That was nice to hear. And I needed to hear that. Well, the next day, I got brought to the prison. It's the biggest prison in all of Pakistan. Adial, the front gates look like the gates the board order. Man, it's just massive. And it's in Islam above. No, it's an hour east of Islamabad and a city called Rahul Pindi. And how many people are in that prison? 6,000. Wow. And you said it's like a mini society. Yeah, it's a city inside this prison. You walk in, there's like big courtyard with the fountain. And it's nice and grass and all these pomegranate trees. And then you've got all these walls with all this Islamic versus from the Quran all over the walls randomly. You've got A cell on the front, you've got B class who are like prisoners with money. Like they don't put like, they don't put like, they don't put poor people in any of these places. They fit like politicians in A class. Behind A class is Kassori. And the behind that's the prison. Then you've got death row over there. And then you've got farms all the way around. The barracks are in the far back. There's a big mosque in the middle. I mean, you could literally probably walk the whole perimeter. And I would have a guest in me. It was two miles. It's just huge. You got the women's prisons to the right. You got the children's prison right behind that. And then you got the nursery, you got the workshops. You got all these long roads. The front part is the nicest part. The way it looks. But then when you get further and further into the prison, it starts to get a little bit darker and dengerier and more prison. Is it like South America where you can pay for yourself to get placed in a better section? I don't know the details about South America. But well, that's how it is. In Pakistan, it's all money. So yes. OK, yes. You can pay for privileges and everything else. Unfortunately, when I'm going into the jail, they got this-- so there's like this placard on my right that looks like scrabble pieces that they take out. The numbers you see under trial. You've got women's prisoners. You've got death row prisoners. Children's prisoners and whatnot. And they've got the numbers that are constantly changing over here. That's how I know the total number is over 6,000. Because it's right there when you first come in. Now, this is a big garage. And I want to say the ceiling is like 30 feet. Not even exaggeration. It's two floors. When you first walk in, they open these big gates and they close it. There's a little door on the gate. And there's also a little door on the right side. But the gate can open in and out for when they bring in vehicles like the canteen or to get the furniture that they're building or whatever other reason when they need to bring vehicles into the prison. They always lock this one before they open this one and vice versa. Well, there's one little table over here with all these books stacked. And all that's in the books are thumb prints. You know, you got names and ordo, but it's all thumb prints. So I get brought over here and they're taking off all my chains and everything. And then they have me do a thumb print. It's funny. They got thumb prints because people are a litter in Pakistan. But yeah, how are they? They don't have any way of knowing who's thumb prints, too. They don't have any computers. They don't have anything like that. Nothing. It's barbaric over here. Yeah, I'm doing a thumb print. They take off the chains. And I hear like chanting behind the gates over here. And the guy brings me over. And one of the guards over here just laughing. Like, they're enjoying it. The guards are laughing what's going on. And one guy goes like this. And I'm like, looking at him and he's doing it. And they're like, they're like trying to, I don't know, they're trying to scare me. I was just like, open the fucking door already. As soon as they opened the door, I treated it like football. I went in like kick off opening, kick off. I went right through these guys because I knew that these guys, if they got me at the door, they could crawl out of me. So I went through so I can get turned it into one of ones. These are guards? No, these are the prisoners. These are prisoners. These prisoners are called the number darts. Number darts are prisoners who do the guards dirty work to get extra privileges and rations. And for doing that, they get to keep whatever valuables they get, whether it's money, like nice sandals, watches, nice clothes, or whatever. Normally, prisoners come in two, three, a dozen at a time. And these guys branch off slapping them. These are the bigger prisoners. They're like, you know, guys who are like five, nine, hundred, seventy five pounds. That's big. In fact, I'm two, twenty five, six, one. And I was fucking gym beast. And I thought to show odds. So I was thinking, like, if you go into prison, scared you're going to be somewhat bitch. And I was like, fuck that shit. I'm thinking I'm only going to beer three days or so because I mean, my mom's now on it. I'm still learning as I go. And so I treated it like kick off. I went right through these fucking guys. So it become one on one. Now these guys got big beers. They got dresses on. I'm using that all against them. I'm on the crown. I'm cracking guys. And I'm back pedaling. Just dropping all these deeds. The guards are up in the towers. Just loving it. Fucking loving it. Because I'm just dropping these guys as I'm back pedaling. They're trying to corral me. But I'm not letting that shit happen at all. Finally, this lasted for a while. And I'm tired. But I'm like, I'm up. I made that courtyard. Like everyone knew I entered the jail. It became like my own little mosh pit. I remember thinking of like kid rock. The bomb to bang. Because I'd always think of shit. Like that when I was on kickoffs and whatnot. Like cool music. I don't know why I was stupid like that. I'm like, I'm not going to be someone's bitch. Fuck that. Let's rock. This little dude who's like 410. Who's a number, a mishakti. Mishakti's are prisoners who just get the sign. Prison are jobs, putting chalk down, painting, delivering food buckets of messages. He's like, I know he's not going to try to hurt me. But he sees everything that's going on. But he's like a little old man, like a hobbit. But he had like authority about him. And he's like, I know that I grabs my wrist to like follow him. So I'm like, OK, I'm going to follow this guy. And these guys, they've given up. They don't want nothing. And then I go walking down the long path to pass the mosque. It's prayer time. So there's thousands of prisoners around this mosque on the prayer mats doing the prayer. And I get brought to the process in Berk, which is deep in the prison. Second story. And it's empty, mostly empty. There's like a guy cleaning, maybe someone getting buckets. And there's like buckets of water and like, clothes hanging up and everything else. And it's, it's organized chaos. Like there's no beds. It's all blankets and everything. Rolls and both sides. I'm fucking exhausted. I'm exhausted. I'm hungry. Guy brings me to the end of it. I'm like, literally only there. I lay down on the, I lay down on the blanket. And I try to close my eyes. I'm dead tired, but my mind won't shut off. You know when people are like in your bubble. So I hear a bunch of scooting feet. And then I open my eyes up, people are sitting right there on the other bed looking right at me. Like, it's not a bed, but it's a little raised. It's a low-raised platform that they put all the blankets on and everything. And then someone says to me, American? It's like, nope. Pakistan, born and raised. My whole life. Guy goes, no, you're the American. And then they show me the front page photo of me with my arms around the fucking guards looking like a cock sucker. I'm like, that doesn't even look like me. Now I'm getting my ass handed to me. I'm tired. There's too many of them. I felt like the fucking Santa Claus and Grimlins. They're all over me. I'm on the second balcony in this small little corridor. And I'm like bashing my people off my back as I'm trying to get these guys out of me. And it's like arms and heads and slaps all happening. People throwing shit from around. One asshole was on my back. And I just grabbed him and got the bright idea to throw him off the balcony. Now there's a bunch of people down there. So he went crowd surfing. I didn't kill him. I threw him off the balcony. And this is when the guards finally decided they got to get involved. And they come in. They're baton charging everyone and everything else. They beat me with the batons. And now I'm getting taken to Kassori for the first fucking time. Kassori is the whole. Yeah. And I was spent five days in my first five days in jail in Kassori, even though they would bring me out if the embassy came. And the embassy came once again, that dude who from the army was there with Christie. But this time he kept his fucking mouth shut and said hello and say nothing. And this is where I found out that my first day in court was going to be in two fucking weeks. March 2nd. So how do you get money in? Right now you're basically just starving, surviving on the bread and tea to get you in. Ovzal would end up giving me money. Ovzal's the interpreter. Yeah. OK. But that would be money that my mom had sent from the embassy. So my mom, they would send money into accounts. I don't remember if she gave me a money there or not. And are you at this point? Have you been charged yet? No. OK. It's your way to go to court. You don't know. My first day of court was March 2nd. So this was 15th of the time I was arrested. So the 19th was now when I'm in the prison. And then two weeks after that, which would be March 2nd. March 2nd. That's all I remember. And then I put me back in the casserole for five days. And then they took me off of the casserole and brought me to death row. And because the reason I was put on death row, because the rumor was going around. It's someone put a bally on my head for 5,000 rupees. And so the superintendent at times like the safest place for me is on death row. So they put me on death row. I got my own cell in death row, but it was like a cage. It's like three other cages. So the other two cages had guys in it. They had three guys in it. These are little old men, one of them was a guy named Maraud, who'd end up becoming my best friend. He knew a little English. That's why he became the guy to come and talk to me. We played chess. He taught me poker. First time I ever played Texas Holden Poker was on death row. Now what was he on death row for? He was on death row for killing 11 of his wise family members. So in Pakistan, everything's arranged marriages. And you're not allowed to marry who you want to marry. Your family says you have to marry him and his wife fell in love without their family's permissions. And so they went into hiding and to be together. Literally, Romeo and Juliet. And while they were in hiding, their families were feuding. They were fighting. They were killing each other. What brought him out of hiding was his wife's family members had gang raped his mother and his sister and killed them by cutting off their breast. So then he set up a meeting and says, this is gotten out of hand, this needs to stop. Let's get together, and he ambushed his wife's family members, killing 11 of them. He did in my eyes what any man would have done. Right. And his mother being killed, his mother and sister being killed by having the breast cut off, it wasn't that legal or is that technically illegal under the laws of Pakistan, but legal under village law. I don't understand. That's what I don't understand. It's kind of unclear about. So people in Pakistan do whatever they want, honor killings and all that kind of stuff. They do whatever they want because they can, they, most of them govern themselves. It depends on where they're jurgers and everything else. He tells of that. I mean, if it was the government wants to, I'm sure the government could have arrested if everyone who was involved had they known, but these people all cover for each other. I see. So it's still illegal. Honor killings and all this barbarities is illegal in Pakistan, but they still do them. Honor killings are illegal here, but it happens all around us here in America. I know that in Pakistan or in Texas, a 400 acre Muslim facility just got approved, just got approved. And what's going to happen on that place, no one that's non-Muslim can go there, they're going to do honor killings there, they're going to do Sharia law there. And people think, oh, that's not how, yes, it's happening here. And there are places in America already where they already practice Sharia law. They don't care about the laws, they only care about their laws. I see. So, but when your friend killed all the rivals, family members, they went to the cops. It got out. I don't, he was arrested, but it got out. Okay. I see. I see. But we never really, like, how did he kill 11 people? Ambushed. Shot him? Yeah. Fuck. Just gangster shit. I would have done the same shit. I would have done it. I think any man would have. Yeah. And sister killed like that, he would become my best friend on death row. And when I would later get off of death row, because he had influence, he did have influence because he, you know, he had my, he would pay to have me come back as under the guy. When I was sentenced, I was a teacher. So you get a job in jail when you have a, you can be a shock, that you can be a number dark. I was a teacher. And I was teaching people, or do teaching people, people, French, I was teaching people how to type on the computer, just English, in general, a lot of people had to read their own language. And, but because he was a, you know, because he had, you know, power, he would get me to come by once a week, just to hang out, play chess under the guys that I was teaching him. Well, in one day, I got called over to, to his cell and it was just random, like early in the morning. And he had this big display of food for us. It was great. It was like chicken and sweet dishes and Pepsi and galop jamas, which are like sweet, like sweet little donuts or whatever. It was just so random. It wasn't a holiday. And there are holidays. There'd be all kinds of treats and stuff like that, but it wasn't a holiday. And nothing was spicy, which was very rare. He knew I hated spicy food. So it was like a meal for me. And that day we played poker, played chess, talked about life, stupid shit. We watched TV. We hung out. We hung out the whole fucking day. And then when I got called back to my cell, I said, "I'll see you next week." He said, "Inshallah." Inshallah is a common saying in her due, it means a God willing. No. And he was hung the next day. So he shared his last meal with me, had it prepared so that I'd enjoy it and he didn't tell me. Wow. Are you not able to pay your way out of death row? You say he was a man of means, but apparently. I was. Well, yeah, but everyone's got their own problems. You know? No, but I mean, like, you're clearly there's so much corruption in the Pakistani legal system. People are able drug traffickers are able to pay their way out, but are murderers not able? He was sentenced. So I was under trial. And I was shouldn't never have been on death row because I was under trial, but the superintendent of the time figured that was the safest place for me because it's the most guarded place. They couldn't put me in the barracks. I understand that. But asking for his sake, was he not able to pay the judge to get his sentence reduced? It's never a tip to the judge. It's up to the family members. Wow. That's a real law. So the family members clearly didn't forgive them. So that's. And that's codified into law in Pakistan, the family. Yes. If you're found guilty of murder, the family gets to decide your fate. Yeah. Because under the laws of Allah, if the family forgives you, then all is forgiven. They'll release you that day. I had seen people who were about to be hung, have the news taken off their head because they pleaded so much with the people, but the truth is, it's because the people wanted to see them suffer for as long as possible, full well knowing that they were going to make a deal or that they had already accepted a deal to release the person. Wow. So they'd take it off. Because all right, I forgive them. Fine. You watched that happen? Yeah. Yeah. And he was like crying and screaming and then, uh, all of a sudden they just took it off and then I was like, "What happened?" Okay, forgive him. Are the family members in the prison watching it? Yeah, they're down there in front row, sitting. Okay. Yeah, describe an execution. Did the inmates go watch it too? No. How were you seeing this? Because I was in the hospital on the second floor, which you can see over the wall. Oh. So if you happen to be, if you happen to be at the hospital, you can watch from the second floor because it's tall enough to see over the wall. Wow. Yeah, but when you're on death row, too, you got a front row seat through the greats, even though it's like, "Oh, chicken wire." Yeah. So you're still seeing it, even though it's just chicken wire. And you saw people being hung before, like actually hanging from a noose, or. Well, never before I went to jail, but yeah. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Wow. It's like it's America in 1870. It's like a wild west. Oh, no, it's barbaric over there. For sure. I mean, that's just the way it is. In Pakistan, they would put all the seats down in front of them. It was a platform, and there was a hanging tower. And it would rip over the hanging tower, and it wasn't rickety, either. It's not like he would see in the wild west. It was like professionally built. Like it was built with a little effort. Man, that's heavy. How often do they put people to death in that prison? Dependent. And it could be every week, a month. No, no. It would be. It would just be sporadic. It would be sporadic, you know, when people were getting it. It would just. It wasn't every week, but because the whole prison goes into lockdown, too, when they would do hang-ins. In case something went off, they didn't want any chance or nothing. So they would keep everyone locked up the entire day, where they did it. There'd be times when it didn't happen for weeks, but then, yeah, then you'd get, like, a lock-up every other day. So. Wow. That's fascinating. It's terrible, but it's fascinating. There's also a courthouse inside the prison for the really, like, dangerous prisoners. People that knew had family had powerful places, so they don't want to chance them to be hijacked or no rescue, or whatever. So they would have to bring them judges into the jail. There was someone somehow got a gun into the jail, and it took, like, 16 judges hostage, because they would bring a bunch of judges to the courts to do all the cases that together, because this wasn't that often, but they had. And we were in lockdown for three days, while the Pakistani commander shut up and everything else. Holy shit. All the judges were killed, and all the guys who were involved in it were killed, too. Being with your prisoner, your allies changed quite a bit, so rather than being like, "Oh, that sucks to be the judges," we were like, "Fuck those judges, because they're all corrupt." Yeah. So we don't feel bad for them at all. You start to, like, root for the prisoners. Yeah. Wow. Who took them hostage? But who were they, do you know? Details. I don't remember. This is 25 years ago. Wow. I mean, there's crazy shit happening in that jail all the time. So they sent the SWAT team the commandos in, and they had firefights. Yeah. Holy shit. Did you hear the gunshots? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And they would lock the rest of the prison down, which shit, like, that would go down. And so, like, for three days, we didn't get a lot out of ourselves or nothing. And then when there would be riots, though, all the guards would have a protocol where they'd all escape back to the front of the prison to restock and rearm her up. And the armor that they would put on would look like the armor from the movie No Escape, which is, like, bamboo armor. You know, they had the bamboo sticks and, like, all the bamboo, like, plates and everything else. And they had a helmet that would fit them, but it was just really more American. And then they would go in and start beating people, or how do they get the riot to squash and then tear gas? They did. They didn't tear gas. They would go in. They would just beat the shed. People just shared numbers. They would, they would march, like, like, like, like, if you're watching, not Brave Heart, but, like, Troy, you know, when those guys entered the beach, they would, like, at the beginning of Troy, they would be side to side and go together with the shields and their helmets and their batons. Yeah. And they've just marched down the lane, beat the crap out of her once people were throwing shit. During the real, some of the riots, like, when I got established at the prison, I would go to the front of the prison where there was the fountain, especially if it was during summer, and I'd just lay in the fountain and then, like, other people who didn't want anything to do it, the riots would go in and, like, put their feet in there and I'd have, like, sunscreen on my nose. And I would root for whoever was winning. If the guards were winning, I'd root for them and if the prisoners were winning, I'd root for them. And it was just, there was this guard named the Kibula. He had this big fat guard and he had this really long mustache that he would twirl up. That was his thing. And we had our, we had our little fun relationship where I would see us. I mean, the Kibula, he would be like, and I'd be like, yeah, just over the top reaction. That was his third thing. It was just stupid. Right? So I seen the Kibula. We were just beating the crap out of someone when he's a big man, like a real big round man, you know? And I'm like, the Kibula, he looks over at me and he goes, and I'm like, yeah, he goes back to me. the dude's fucking hysterical. The first year sucked for me and Joe, but the second two years was fun. I had my own, I had respect. I learned the language that the guards will leave him alone. They're all working for me. The prisoners respect me. People stop trying to kill me all the fucking time. Well, did you ever have to participate in a riot? No, I never had to. I mean, I had to. Well, no, why? I was going to ask you that. Like, what are riots over? Do people get killed? Yes. Oh, people get killed all the time in riots. They start fires. They burn all their shit. They try to settle old scores. That's when I would try to go back to the hijackers to like, like, so we can like watch each other's backs. I was trying to get over to one cell. And during one of the riots, I like someone tried to fire bomb myself one time, but there's two doors. There's one inside and one outside. And there's this little area like an atrium that they could lock out like some prisoners. That's a privilege. They'll like open this door and lock this door and come out here. You get another five square feet of the exercise room. Someone fire bombed my cell one time. That's why I was like, after that, I don't want to be sitting duck here because the guards are gone. I want you to try to stop anything. It's shit goes down. And that's why I would always try to find the hijackers and hunker down with them until things calm down. Yeah. And during one of the riots, I had to kill three men. That's okay. Do you have a knife on you? No. Just my hands, just my fucking hands. Had you already killed that first guy that had attacked you at the point? Okay. What happened? It was like everyone against everyone. And then it was a, it was a hit on me. I had a bunch of knives in me. And I was at the guy underneath me. I killed them hijackers through one of the other guys off of me. You killed them like you smashed them in the face or you stopped on his neck? No, no, no, I snapped his neck. And then the guy behind me, while the hijackers had surrounded me, what kind of knives, I mean, like, you know, an American prison shank is now these guys with like anything, anything that's metal can be a knife. They like to get cigarette lighters and melt the plastic around metal. And then because that was the handle. And then they would sharpen anything, anything that's metal. So nails obviously can be used. You can buy real knives in jail from the canteen. Like I would buy real knives from the canteen. But I use it to cut potatoes and made those and all that. Okay. So you could get a knife that could kill somebody. You can get anything into that jail. You can get weapons. The guy got a gun into the fucking prison. If I wanted to, I could have easily gotten a gun into that jail. I don't, I don't doubt that whatsoever. You can get, when I started learning how to work the system, the things that I would get into prison were VCDs, video CDs, food, cell phones, books, things to help you time go by. I had a PlayStation 2 in myself. By the time I left that prison, it was like myself was a dorm room. I never dealt with drugs, alcohol or women or weapons. I dealt with things to help my time go by. I would get garden tools because I was always working on my garden. I would get plants and I would, I grew along. I would, you know, made my ugly yard look pretty and people enjoyed it. Was your mom and your mom still sending you money? That's how you're getting? Yeah. Well, at first, she was sending me money and I would get it smuggled in through a religious teacher because I couldn't do through the off cell anymore. Off cell being, that's why I didn't like him anymore because the embassy before I was convicted would have to come at least once a month and once every other week. And then out of nowhere, they'd just kind of stop showing up. It didn't make sense. It was just sort of sporadic and I was like, "Why have you guys not been showing up?" And it was because when the embassy was busy, they would just send off cell by himself. So instead of coming to the prison with my money by himself, he would go do whatever and keep the money. So he stopped bringing my money unless he was with that consular and American consular, then he would show up and give me my money. I figured this out later because it was like, I felt like a neighbor's dog who wasn't getting fed. And when I figured this out, I started getting money in because of the hijackers, the hijackers had it in and it was through a religious teacher. And so if the religious teacher would bring whatever amount I want and then he would keep 500 rupees himself, which is 10 bucks, that's a lot of money for him. And you smuggle a money in because it's not electronic, like in America. It's bad. This is dude. It's Pakistan. So it's not like you got some shit in an escrow account like doing America. I was, no, my mom was Western Union it to him. He had to go to wait in line and then come back. And now if he had fucked me over, then we would let the other prisoners know. So he had a good hustle. So he was doing it not just for me and the hijackers. He's doing it for however many. They don't search the religious teachers. They got a lot of respect. So it's perfect cover. Very good. He had a good hustle. Right. The guy was making crazy money and plus 500 rupees, you know, every month is great money. Right. So I would get $400 a month. And like I said, if you can get 50 bucks into that jail a month, you can live like a king. $400 I was making deals happen all the time. Yeah. I was the first person that I know of to get a cell phone into that prison because a cell phone costs 12,000 rupees, roughly 200 bucks. And there was no guarantee that it was going to work, you know, there's a reception and all that stuff isn't the way it used to be. There isn't the way it is now. Back then, it was a real touch and go, you know, Russian roulette, whether it was going to work or not. So it was a 12,000 rupee gamble. That's fucking a lot of money. So I got, I was the first one to get a cell phone. And once I got a cell phone into that jail, I would rent the cell phone out to other people. So now I had money coming in. And then people started realizing that, okay, well, I was using the hijackers to get the stuff in because I wasn't, I didn't trust the guards yet, you know, because of the guards were notorious for doing something for you and then going and get money back for ratting you out for the stuff that they brought you. But the hijackers have been in that prison since 86. So they had respect. They grew up with these guards. The guards would come and eat with them like breakfast, lunch and dinner. So I would use the hijackers relationships to get things in. And it was the cell phone. And then once that started happening, we were getting cell phones in for everyone else in the jail. And we were making crazy money there. And I started hosting poker tournaments in prison because of what Maraud had taught me. And then I got it to where there was like a couple of mats and then I'd get all the cards and the chips. And I was the tournament director. And then we have like a couple of dozen mats and all the prisoners are coming to set to class, sitting on my lawn and my, my, my garden that I'd been out there and I was running tournaments. One dude got bluffed really bad and stabbed somebody at the tournament. And so the guards beat his ass. He killed the guy that at my tournament. And then like, I don't remember how long later, but he tried to buy back into a tournament. I was, man, get the fuck out of here, dude, you're not allowed to play. So I swear I won't stab anyone ever again. Yeah, you're not, you're not playing. And I was, it was hysterical because of me banning this guy from the tournament. Everyone else was like on their best fucking behavior because this was like to keep the, you know, this is the way they didn't kill time and whatnot. And so I was a tournament director in jail. I guess it was, there's so much crazy shit happened in prison. Like it wasn't, it was, it was nuts. And it dependent, we had so many superintendents come in that prison that when a new superintendent would come into the jail, they would like offer like some new thing, like some new idea. Like one tournament got the, one, one superintendent got the idea that we should have a box in tournament. And Maraud and I had just gotten in a lot of trouble for beating the crap out of these rapists who had gone and come into prison and they were, they thought they were celebrities. It was the guys who, remember, I told you about the 12 year old kid and then 29 year old woman. So four of the five guys, they had caught and brought into jail who were part of that. And they thought they were celebrities because they were in the newspaper and everything else. And they were raping the 12 year old boy and the 18 year old sister. Right, right? Because he was with somebody from a higher class. Correct. So the only reason that this got a bunch of attention was because that woman somehow got the attention of a humanitarian group. And they put a lot of influence on the government to do something about it. Otherwise they normally want to do anything. Right. So these guys were in jail thinking they're celebrities because in the newspaper and these are just uneducated people from like little outskirts and in the little on-clubs, you know, well, Rod, absolutely hated rapist. He's like, I want to fucking kill these guys. I'm like, yeah, let's do something. I'm going to beat their ass. That's it. You know, in jail, you want to hurt people who do shit like this and people who hurt children or women. It's prison all over the place. Yeah. But that's like the culture. It is. So, so why did you have the right or they have the right to like treat that as it's something like something bad when it's so entrenched? Not my culture. It's not my culture. It's not my culture. It's not my culture. It's not my culture. And so he invited these dudes over for lunch, guard brought them in for lunch. And then I was like, all right, something to beat these guys ass. He locks the cell, comes over and they were sitting around on the floor. If you sit on the floor and you're about to eat the rotis and everything else, a skillet that had all this grease in it. And he poured it on the head of one of the dudes. Dude's face melted, looked like a fucking candle. I don't think, oh my god, he's really trying to kill the dudes. And then he smashed the other dude with the skillet. I'm like shit, well, so we're beating these guys ass and everything else in the cell. Gards like, yeah, I don't care about that, you know, because the guards realize what's going on. Well, Fahad just he didn't stop until he was done. He didn't, we didn't kill none of these guys. We just beat the fucking crap out of him and melted that dude's face. Fahad's like, comes out, unlocks it. We go, we get to the fucking Sorry, you know, we're getting manhandled over not getting beat because fuck I'm with Fahad. Fahad had already planned us to be in Cassari, so he'd already bribed the guards and everything else. So they had candles waiting for us. We didn't get tortured that week. And we spent five days in Cassari for that. But we weren't tortured because Fahad had already set it all up and we had food and candles and books. So a new superintendent came in and wanted to do a box internment. And because of what Fahad and I did, someone put us on the cards, you know, because they were only allowing 128 prisoners to be on it. I was just to be like several days. I think I was seven days, and it was gonna be two rounds, two minute tournaments. That was it. And so they were on the American on it. They wanted Fahad on their Fahads. I'm not fucking doing that shit. Fahad didn't do it, even though they put them on the card. And it was Pakistani judges. So the first day because there was these three Nigerian dudes. And one Nigerian, like these guys, one of the Nigerian dudes, Nick, they was afro. He looked like a little Mike Tyson. He was like five foot eight, but he had these huge bowling ball arms. And he was just massive bodybuilder. And there's one tall Nigerian guy who had, he could fight. He could box. And so when this dude was in the ring, he was just putting on a show, pop, pop, pop dancing around, pop, pop, just picking his shots on the guy. You know, he was doing like that pop by thing and like it was hysterical. I swear, I don't even think he got hit. Not once. And then when the two rounds, two minutes were up, the Pakistani that was in the ring with them, who got the shit be out of him, got the win. And then me and Aaron whole crowd was like, what the, like there were some questionable shit happening before the, but that was where it became ridiculously obvious that if you were Pakistani, you last to two rounds, two minutes against the foreigner, you were being advanced. So I'm sent with that with afro. And I'm like, I think we got to knock our opponents out. He goes, they get rid of medical. Yeah. They too strategy completely changed. Pakistan is a runner on the ring just trying to survive foreigners are trying to go after. There was a, there was this Afghani guy nicknamed him MB for masturbator because he was always borrowing like these people magazines and like time magazines, magazines at the embassy would give me. If you see a little ankle or a little rift today, that's poor, that's hardcore, poor in Pakistan. So his name was, I think it was, I want to say it was, that's viola or something. He was an Afghan, but he was a pretty good fighter. And I would call him MB. Now MB was like the Afghan people's champion. He was fucking good. Pakistan guys had, they had somebody had a good fighter on their side. He was pretty fucking good. This guy. I can't remember his name, but he got put in afro's bracket. And I was thankful for that. I got, like the Pakistani started to fall off pretty quick and they advanced hard, but they started to fall off pretty quick. So we're in the semis and I get put up against MB. And MB was good, but I ended up knocking him out and he didn't want anymore. Well afro got put up against the Pakistani people's champion. And this dude was milking the count like every time he got knocked down, he'd get up real slow. And the, the, the ref was a little Pakistani old man could have been in his 50s, but he looked like he was like 80 because they, they age very poorly over there. He'd be like, heck, dual. And afro's like fucking count fast dude, you know. So this dude's using the, the ropes and then afro comes over and just starts pounding the crap. After he was trying to hold the dude up, while he's beating them up, the guy would go back to the ground, the slow count guy makes it to the round, then afro just beat the fuck out of this dude like beat the crap out of him, but the guy makes it through the second round. Afro street walks over to the judges. If I lose, I kill you. And then he walks over just looks, it just looks at the little, little ref. And I, we are all holding our breath watching waiting to happen. Afro just, we just see him up there. Afro just looking at the ref. Second, the ref went to raise the Afro already sent the ref to the rings. It looked like I'm like Tyson moment. The guards are in there. Afro is fighting all the fucking guards. He's just going off on everybody. The whole crowd is loving it. The people are sitting on the roads on all the mosque and everything. It's all all the barracks around the mosque. I'm sure they're betting too. A hundred percent. Oh yeah. So the next day, I'm fighting to do the Afro just completely tenderize. That dude doesn't even make it past the first round because he's so fucked up from my Afro. Do you know how I'm out? Oh yeah. That guy was fucking the ref. So then I'm see Afro finally out of Kassari, however, a long way. I'm like, yeah, Afro thinks for the assist. He's like, fuck you a medic. That's just so fucking terrible. Afro would 100 percent want it if he had even in my right. So who won the whole thing? Me. You won the whole tournament. It is because of Afro fucking taking out the other day. I got put in an easier bracket. This is such a movie. It's just crazy. Hey, we know. The first, like I said, the first year sucked. The second two years were great. So let me talk about your case. So you're like you said at the beginning, it would have been easier if you were guilty. Yeah. Because you could have got the rings of bribery and corruption. You could have got that motion in motion early. If I was guilty, it would have worked 100 percent on my favor. I wouldn't have cared if I was guilty. I would have been like, I did a bad thing. You would have pled guilty, pled to get paid the judge, paid the prosecutor. I would have gone home. I would have gone home in like a year and four months. So explain that, like, how much does it cost? How much would that process of cost? Well, because they wanted a lot. The originally the judge wanted $125,000. Right. Because they were like delaying my case delaying my case. After 11 and a half months, they finally came down with, all right, $1,000, which was typical for a foreigner. It's less for, it's less for anyone else. It's going to give me two years. I'd already been there almost a year and with good behaviors and remissions and some more bribes, I'll get out in like four months. So two years isn't two years. Two years is like really a year and four months. I got to pay the prosecutor off a couple hundred bucks, which is a couple thousand rupees. It's nothing. But I have to plead guilty. Right. And I refuse to plead guilty for a crime and commit. That's why the embassy is like, Eric, what do you care? It's worth more to you. You're proud of your freedom. And the guys like, it's Pakistan. Like the embassy was mad at me for a few simply guilty in there. Call me a punk. So how'd I been guilty would have been so much easier because I wouldn't have lost everything. And people also to this day or who still doubt me, but even though it's been over 20 years since I've been on a jail and I've never been in trouble again, there's still people out there who's like, oh, I don't know. I think you did it because it's easier to assume that I deserved all the bad shit that happened to me if I deserved it rather than actually agree. Like the only that I'm innocent because it's just easier to stomach knowing that someone goes to something that is bad as I went through had I deserved it and not deserved it. Of course. Of course. So the death row part, the death penalty, that really was never a real threat. No, it's a threat. It depends on the mood of the judge. Right. So like if I, but if he's been bribed already though, which I, well, we didn't bribe him though. That's the bribe he wanted. He wanted a thousand dollars. When I was fine with paying him a thousand dollars for a two-year prison sentence, but I wasn't okay with pleading guilty. So the bribe wasn't going to happen unless I pled guilty. I got you. So you, your original, you were originally facing the death penalty. Yes. And that got knocked down why if you refused to plead guilty. No, it didn't get nice. It's up to the judge. It's up to the discretion of the judge. Now, it's a big window. It's a one-year sentence or death sentence. Yeah. It's up to the corruption. That's why the lower court to still corrupt the higher courts are where the real like cases land, but they just take forever to get to that. So did yours ever get to the high court? Yes. Remember, I said that I went that lawyer flew back from Lahore to, um, to Islamabad and with said my clients happy with the seven-year, three-month prison sentence, I withdraw my pill. At the time, that cost me my one chance that I court. That was because I had my mom involved. When I wrote to the embassy, I said, hey, take my mom off anything. She's not allowed to know anything. It's happening to me anymore. So that lawyer that my mom had gotten flew back from Lahore back to Islamabad with drawing my, with through my pill, which cost me my one chance in high court. Now, you, because I'm under trial, the embassy isn't going to go out of the way to help me get a lawyer because you're already sentenced. They only have to do it if you're pre-trial, but now once you're convict, they're not going to do it. So I'm trying to get another lawyer, but I'm also taking correspondence courses through the AIOU, the Alarmic Ball Open University, which is, it's a school there to become a lawyer. And I'm doing this all in Urdu, but you can do everything with bribes. Like literally, I was doing open-book tests with the council right here, and I just have to pay him some money to look the other way while I'm doing everything, you know, copy in for the test, and all the other Pakistanis that were trying the test to are copying off of me. I pass, I become a lawyer. So I'm a lawyer in Pakistan, and while I'm working on my case, I'm also working on other foreigners' cases, and just putting paperwork forward granted. I wish we had something called chat GPT back in the day. That would have made life so much easier, but I'm literally going on old case law and applying it to people, and it's just really just being able to bullshit a scenario like I caught with this much. And so I start comparing like if you got caught with 5KG, I would go and find all the other person people who were sentenced with 5KG for the lowest amount of time. So I would say this person, this person, this person, this person were convicted, or had 5KG of the exact substance, and they only got served, you know, two years, three years, so that, so they can go and try to get their sentence is reduced to that much. So rather than, I'm not a minister for them, because most of these people weren't innocent. In fact, I don't think any of them were. I did get a girl out who had a passport violation because she had a Thai passport, but also an American passport. That would help me. And the reason that would help me is because she had an American passport, the American embassy had to come and visit her. So they figured they'd knock out two birds and one stone. This is all in my book, by the way. My book's called Three Years in Pakistan, which it's on Amazon, but it's also an audiobook. format on most audio, audiobook platforms. I narrate my own story because my friends can't read. And literally like, my friends would be like, I'd be like, "Hey, after six months, "would you guys think of the book?" I'm like, "Oh man, it's some big words in there." On page three, fucking douchebags. That's why I did an audiobook. Anyways, this ty woman had a dual passport, but she was hysterical, she was in her 60s. And the embassy would come and see her and knock out two birds and see me. Well, the funny thing is when the embassy was there, they gave her a list that did the same shit with me when I first got there. That girl Christy's long gone. She was only there a couple months and she got transferred to another embassy. So I was constantly seeing new consulars. Well, the list that they gave this girl had a name of a bunch of different lawyers. They're not giving her any information whatsoever. Like, "You just got to pick a lawyer off this list. "She doesn't know what this fucking list is. "Now I've been in this jail now almost two years." I'm like, "Let me see that list." And I'm looking at the list as they brought me up 'cause while we were sitting in the circle with them, they're telling me, "Don't meddle." And I'm like, "This guy sucks, this guy sucks. "This dude's dead." You know, so I'm making fun of the embassy in front of this woman. They tell me to shut up, I'm meddling to go out 'cause they don't want us to be seen together now because I'm meddling, so I'm like, "Fuck it, I'm gonna go." And as I'm leaving, those girls over here are like, "Tell me what to do." And I'm like, "All right, I come back "and I give her a name of a lawyer." I said, "Call this lawyer here." When he gets here, make sure you call me up and I'll come over and help out, all right? But make sure you call me up to the front. Now, the lawyer that I recommended to her was recommended to me by the hijackers. This particular lawyer had worked on the hijackers case the entire time. And even though they were responsible for 23 deaths, he got all their sentences instead of concurrent to be served at the same time. So all cases instead of it being like one after another or another were put on top of each other. So life in prison is actually 25 years. So if you served 25 years, you're out. So they were serving their 25 years. And their lawyer had only charged them $400 for those cases, total. So one day that by this time I'd become really good friends with like all the superintendents and there's one superintendant who was in charge of the foreigners. His name was Mr. IU. Mr. IU was a character, okay? He could speak English, but he didn't really understand it. So he loved talking to me 'cause he wanted to learn slang and everything else. Let's rule, let's bounce, you know? And I was learning Urdu. So I was able to communicate with him a lot better. And he'd just like hearing all my stories. Well, he liked, he had a crush on this tie. Well, maybe if she was in her 60s, IU was like in his late 40s, early 50s. So he didn't care, he was a dog. And he wanted me up there to, you know, kind of like be a wingman and everything and talk him up. So I go to his cell, or not his cell, his office, which is up at the front of the prison. And which I've been up to many times just because of conversations and whatnot. And there's this guy there just talking and we're speaking Urdu and everything else. And he's dressed up nice. He's in a suit. And I don't know where he assumes that I'm like from Amnesty International, like an outside. 'Cause I'm dressed fine, I'm healthy, I'm at this time. And I don't act like a prisoner. And just by talking, like after like a couple of minutes, we finally realized, wait a minute, you're the lawyer of that, oh my God, this was the lawyer that I had told her to call up and make sure that I was called up too. Now, she didn't call me up, but IU called me up because IU wanted me to be a wingman for him when he talked to that girl. And just by serendipity, I'm now talking to the lawyer that I needed to help me with my appeals. Even though I was doing all my own stuff, like I didn't need him to argue my stuff. I just needed him to put my papers across the right table so that I could come and argue my own case. So this is what he goes, all right, what's my fee? I said, I'll pay $300 upfront, $100 when the case is done. 'Cause you don't ever put all your money up front otherwise they're just gonna take off or try to get more money. He said deal, we shook on it, and now I'm stoked because like this, the girl comes up, I talk up IU, I tell her you're in good hands. Now this guy's gonna represent this girl's case. We talked about her case. How is that passport violation and what to do? And your plan is for your case. Yeah. I don't care about the Thai woman. Your case is you wanna go to trial. Of course. You wanna go and do they have jury trials or just are you going to the judge? No, well, first off, I didn't wanna go to trial yet because now that one lawyer had withdrew my appeal. So my high court case was completely killed supposedly, but I wanted to go back to high court. I wanted to say that I never gave this guy permission to withdraw my appeal. So I told this guy, this is what I need. I need to make sure that I get another chance at high court to represent myself to explain exactly what happened. How this guy tried to extort money out of my mother. He says, all right, well, I need to get paid first, all right, cool. So this is, this is, this is four to seven months, and then I had to go look back at my book. Everything was more fresh there. Because my, so four months after I was sentenced, that guy withdrew my appeal. And now a couple of months have gone by, and I've seen this other guy so much time has gone by, so I think this is around seven months. And this guy's like, all right, I'll start tomorrow. I'll file the papers, but I said, cool, go to the embassy. This, and ask for the money. I want them to pay 18,000. And I write to the embassy, and I tell them this. I want to pay this guy 18,000. Okay, sure, no problem. Now I never see him again, not in the prison, or I see him when I go to court. I didn't see him in the prison. But I would never hear anything had happened. I was like, what's going on? Why is nothing happening? Embassy kept coming back all the time to visit with the Thai girl. They weren't coming because she's under trial. They didn't have to come back and see me. She's hysterical, she needs water, she needs medicines, and they're constantly coming back to see her because she's not doing well in prison whatsoever. And I keep asking, oh, so what's going on with my case? Why is this guy not done anything after several months? And I remember, I was like four months. I'm like, oh, what is going on with my case, man? This guy said that he was going to put my, he goes, your lawyer hasn't done anything yet. And I go, what do you mean he doesn't do anything? He said he was going to go put the applications in the next day. You know, that was forever ago. He goes, well, he hasn't been paid yet. I go, I was like, what do you mean he hasn't been paid yet? He goes, your accounts have been empty. Now, Ozzel could have told me this for months. Had my accounts been empty. My accounts were an empty. Ozzel had emptied my accounts. All the money that was coming in for my mom and my mom stopped, because Ozzel had been keeping all my money. So that's why she started sending the money to me through their religious teacher. Ozzel had emptied my accounts, but also Ozzel wanted to keep me in jail. This is the Pakistani interpreter. This is the guy whose our embassy is put in charge of me and whoever else might happen to be American in this situation. Robyn, you're blind. 'Cause he's a fucking Pakistani. And I knew that he would be fucking me this whole time. So I was pissed when I did. I threw the chair across the room. It was cussing Ozzel out of guards. Like, oh, I wreck, relax, you know. I'd go back to my, I didn't go to myself. I went straight to one cell to have lunch with the hijackers. Khalil, Khalil had the thickest accent of all the hijackers. When I told him what happened, he goes, "I thought the American embassy was supposed to help you." (laughing) His mother fucker. Fahad's like, how much money do you have? I said, I have like 8,000 rupees. 8,000 is a lot of money in jail. But I need 18,000 rupees. The hijackers took up a collection on my part. From prisoners and everything else. And they got the other 10,000 rupees. And then another prisoner that wasn't too sad with me, who was there for a nap case, a corruption. We gave him 18,000 rupees. 'Cause he was going to court. He could smuggle the money out. Obviously with if this doesn't make it to where he needs to go, you're a dead man. You have to give those threats, unfortunately. You don't want to have to do it. He's like, shut up, I understand. That night, that very next day, we get the guy goes out. The very next day after lockup, that guy's mishockity comes over and brings me a letter. It was from my lawyer. It says, I got the money I'll proceed this week. He immediately went into the high court and got me a day to go there and appeal the withdrawal of my pill. And when that date was set, I showed up. And that dude from Lahore flew in to represent himself. And when I told the judges exactly what had happened, it was so comical what was happening because when people swear on the Quran, they actually tell the truth in Pakistan. This guy kind of lied the whole time. Like they were like, how much did you were asking? Like you can ask for whatever. I was like, this guy was trying to siphony money off my mom. He'd already gone a couple thousand. He wanted $25,000 more. The judges were laughing. Like one judge was like, he's like, we're trying to retire off this guy. And the other judge was like, his whole family was trying to retire off. So they're laughing. I'm over here standing with chains on laughing too, 'cause it's comical, but it's still my life. This guy's like, I can charge whatever I want. And so I asked the question, what's the most you've ever made on any case? And this guy says, one lack. One lack was $100,000 rupees less than $2,000. I said, and what kind of case was that? It was a death amarna case, which means that he had represented someone who had committed murder. The most, this dude admitted, the most he had ever made was less than $2,000. But here he was over here admitting that he was charging me 25,000 and that I never gave him permission to withdraw my pills. I never gave him permission to withdraw my pill. He was taking advantage of my scenario. He was taking advantage of my mother. He had already gotten paid and he wanted more money to continue on with my case. So he withdrew my pill, cost me my one chance in high court. I just want a fighting chance. And his judges gave me another day. I was the only person at the time that I'd heard of, that had ever been given a second chance in high court. Unfortunately, my paper went to the bottom of the pile. But at least it was in the pile. So now you got to wait. Correct. And it would be, it would be December, December 16th, 2024, when I would get my second chance at the high court. 2004. 2004. Yes. Thank you. OK, so now you're in prison at this point. Oh my gosh, almost three years. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, wow. And so by this time, I had already organized soccer matches against the guards. side. The boxing tournament, I run poker games in jail. - I got killed for them. - Yep. - And I had all the superintendents or my friends. I was hosting dinner parties for the future president and the future prime minister at Pakistan. - They were in the prison? - Yeah. - Yeah. - As political prisoners. - Yep. - Holy shit. - Yeah. And I was watching movies in jail. I was playing video games. I was writing historical phones. - That's right. I was having a good life. - So you had a ton of cash at that point. - Well, yeah. If you needed protection in jail, you came to me. Where did you eat something in that prison? You came to me. - Where would you keep all the money? Did you? - No, well, I know. My cell was off limits now. So what changed everything? And then I'll tell this last story and then you guys got to watch the documentary or the book. What changed everything? Was just after I've been sentenced the first time there was this asshole guard named Goldley. That was his nickname. Goldley was the name of an expensive brand of cigarettes in Pakistan. It was roughly 40 rupees for one pack of cigarettes. Granted, at the time, a guard's only making 100 rupees a day. You know? So 40% of your salary for a pack of cigarettes is unheard of. Now, regular pack of cigarettes is six, seven rupees, you know? But Goldley's cigarettes were fancy cigarettes. And this guy, Goldleaf, was a nickname that because he was famous for having prisoners beat until they agreed to buy him Goldley's cigarettes. That was just his preference of cigarette. But he was even more famous for having had hundreds of prisoners beat to death who either refused to buy him these cigarettes or just couldn't afford to. He never did the work himself. Me, he tried to be such a skinny old man, but he would have the number of darts and the other guards do the work. And he would just, I watched this man piss on a guy who was unconscious and then later died. He got put in something in charge of my cell block. I was dealing with these terrible erics. Like I was just so bad. I couldn't even concentrate. All I do was work out. He can't read. You just feel like you just walk back and forth and just hope that you get tired to go. Erics are some of the worst things you can have. And the reason I had erics is because I'm on soon season sleeping in the water and the bad conditions. And my eardrums have been popped by the Pakistani doctors who came trying to clean them out. They popped both my eardrums, like out of very weak eardrums now. And I was, I mean, I get eardrums all the time, but in jail, man, whenever I thought of suicide, it was because of my eardrums. He sees me working out. He's talking all the shit I'm ignoring him, you know, but I can understand the language now. He's just talking all this crap. We've got war drums happening to Iraq. So this is two, the early 2003. Yeah, early 2003 when this shit's happening. And he goes, calls all Americans dogs. And then he says, "Give me 500 rupees." And I'm like, "Hey, we may all be dogs, but you're a little bitch." And I'm saying this in our due. And this guy goes and fumbles with that shit. I kept my mouth shut. Dude, fumbles with this key. He comes in the cell that come and hit me with the baton. But I didn't let him do that. I caught him. I started punching him with his own hand. And then I just lost it. I lost my cool. And I'm beating the crap out of goalie for myself. Two other guards come in to try to help him. They don't have a chance. One of them gets away and I'm like, fuck, you know. You could fuck with the guards, but don't fuck with goalies. I drive these guards out on my cell. I take the lock from my inner cell and I lock my outer gage, you know. All the locks are different and keys are different. I go in my room that do two things. Prepare and pray. Okay, I go in my cell and I start putting on all my sweaters and everything else and put on my beanie. I'm putting tissue paper up on my gums. I'm thinking like, holy shit, I'm actually going to be the hurricane. Denzel Washington, this sucks. And I figured that today I was going to die, you know. My ears, but I'm okay with it because my ears are so bad. I'm like, I don't want to kill myself. I want to make these guys earn it. And I'm asking God, I'm like, hey, if you can get me out of this right now, that'd be really cool. But if not, just give me the strength to take as many of these motherfuckers out with me as you can. And I'm thankful this was happening to me. Not my brother or someone else that I encouraged this trip to. And when the guards came back, they came back and forced it through canister and it through canister out. No one wanted to come in that room by themselves because it was, it wasn't going to be fun for them. I was landing, I was breaking fingers. I was cracking these guys. At one point, I had a helmet on and one of their shields. And I had one of them hostage and I was, I was a mother fucker, but I was having a good time. And when they finally ripped me out of that room, I couldn't even scream or cry. I was so tired. And it just stomped me forever. And it just went on forever. They broke all the fingers in my right hand, one by one. And they started on my left hand. And I remember thinking, just let it end already. That's all I could think about, just let it end. And I finally heard the super intended. And he was like the man he was going on. And he's speaking in Urdu. And Goldie says that they found drugs on me that I tagged him. I'm on the floor, I'm like, he's lying. I told you today. And he comes over and goes, you could speak Urdu. He was like, yeah, so they lift me up. And he kind of like tells them to relax. Because they had their hands on me. And I told him what happened. I go, Goldie came to my room, he wanted 500 rupees. I told him to go to hell, he came in my room and attacked me. And he goes, I believe you. And he turned around, he fired Goldie right there on the spot. And then he asked me, who else had caused me problems? And I pulled out six guards out of that crowd by reading their name tags, all in Urdu. And that day, seven guards got fired. But it wasn't the seven, it was the one. When I woke up in the hospital the next day, there were sweet dishes, there was cards, there was chicken. The whole prison had heard what had happened. And they were thankful and grateful. Because I had gotten rid of a monster that had been terrorizing everyone in that prison. Goldie. That's what changed everything. And that was right at the beginning of the end of the first year that I had done there. So after that, people were given-- no one was trying to kill me anymore. People were calling me brother. People were giving me hugs. It took forever from my right hand to hill. But I learned to do everything with my left hand. And in my book, it's all in there. I know I just gave you the cracker, jacker version of everything. Well, moving ahead to 2004, where you've won your appeal against this crooked lawyer. And now your case is back in high court. How does that conclude? See, that's where you got to read the book now. I know you can hate that. I just came to let my driver hang any longer, unfortunately. But what happens is I was able to successfully prove myself that they believed that I was innocent. I used everything that they had done by putting all my stuff in that suitcase against them. I said, why would I put a DVD player in a suitcase that's going underneath the plane? The whole point of having that was to watch movies and make a long flight more entertaining. This is before headrests with TVs. I said, why would I put my cell phone in there? What if somebody calls me? Why would I put my wallet in there? That's my ID. How am I going to get through anything? Obviously, I was set up. That suitcase was never mine. It was all the truth. The suitcase wasn't mine. But they didn't need to know the specifics that I was there hired to transport that suitcase. I was always innocent. And they believed that I was innocent. They said, we can't say that we kept an American in jail for three years. It makes us look back, because it's all about image to them. So they gave me time served, and I was like, I can handle that. And you walked out? Not that day, now. They had to make their decision. They didn't make the decision there. They made the decision a week later. You say, they was a multiple judges? Two. Oh, that's right, because they put two judges to try to keep them-- From corrupt and getting crushed. And so for a week, I waited for them to make the decision. And the cool thing about it was when the decision finally came, it was December 23, 2004. It was after a lock-up. And it was always in the newspapers. The decisions coming. The decisions coming soon. Well, one guard came over. It's an embassy. They're maybe-- they knew what that meant. So the guard started praying for me. And he opened the gate, and then as I walked out, I saw all the other prisoners praying for me. It was kind of cool. It was like dusky, now. The sun wasn't out, but you could still see light out. And when I came around the corner outside of Tucson, one of the superintendents, a two-star who I was teaching French to, nice guy, we had food and everything else. He had a bunch of number of darts with them. And I had five. Every single one of those fucking number of darts at one point in that prison. And he knew it was my day. And so he started praying for me. All the number of darts were praying for me. And as I walked up to the front of the prison, all the gardeners, all the prisoners, everyone was praying for me to go home. So when I came in that prison, I came in swinging. But when I was leaving that prison, everyone was praying for me. I didn't change. They all changed. They saw me as a human. They saw me as a friend. They saw me as a teacher. And when I finally got into the big cell door, and I came walking around the corner, I kept thinking to myself, what if? And I was preparing myself for the worst. I was like, if you get, they could have extended it. And I also can like, I'm not gonna extend it. And maybe they don't give me anything else. But then I was like, what if? And I was always preparing myself. If I have to serve the whole time, I can do it. - Well, that's what I want to know is, what was your maximum you were facing? - He could have changed it. They could have put me back on death row. I didn't see that happening though, 'cause I had won these guys over. I had done everything for them. Like, they could have been sadistic. I would mask a kiss that or whatever. It was always up to them, it's always up to them. - To the judges. - Correct. - But you hadn't actually paid them any bribes. - Never. - Yeah. And you would kind of prove too that you were telling the truth with that scummy lawyer. - Yeah. - Like, you would ingratiate it yourself to where they, I think they believed you. I mean, obviously. - Well, yeah. Well, I didn't get those two same judges. For the lawyer, 'cause I got two random judges who oversaw my other case when I went back to high court. It wasn't the same judges. Those same judges allowed me to have a second chance at high court. But then I got two new judges. - So yeah, there is a slight possibility that they could just throw the book at you. Had you seen any drug dealers be executed or heard of any of them getting executed? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Oh yeah. - Oh my god. - Yeah. But they're like big, big drug dealers. You know, guys are like, tons and stuff like that. - Packers, Pakistanis or forms. - Packers, Pakistanis, foreigners, yeah. - Wow. - And it's heroin mostly coming out of there. - Not always. Tons of Hishish. - Wow. - Do they have Hishish production in Pakistan? - Yes, yes. - Opium, Hishish, heroin. - They got other things too. - And they just weren't able to pay the right people or I don't know everyone else in scenario. I just know my own and even then I forget. - And it, but it just sounds like this system is so random 'cause like as you said at the beginning of the episode, these foreigners, these Nigerians, know how to fleece the system. They go back in multiple times and they only do a couple of years. - Well, a two-pack who is a South African. - Right. - And then they're three times. Well, the time was there, multiple, like he was the only one that I saw there three times. Most of the other people have been there twice. - Right. - You know, because they know they know how to gain the system. If you're guilty, you want to go to jail in Pakistan. But regardless, I've been out since December 23rd, yeah, I got out December 23rd, 2004. - So they let you out that day, actually? - No, no, no, no, no, no, they didn't. That was when I got released. - Oh, go. - And because they had to get my visa, there was a bunch of other things. 'Cause I'm a foreigner, how'd I been a local? I kind of got out that night, obviously. But because I'm a foreigner, you have to still play the game. You got to get a visa, 'cause my visa had expired. It takes some time for that. And you got to bribe some other people to get out, had to bribe some jail officials. I bribed them with like video games and some money and other things that I had in my cell. You know, then I went and sold everything in my cell. I sold my, I gave my TV to one of the hijackers, I gave, I kept my cell phone, but I sold cell phones that other people sold my video games to, and the other reason I sold stuff is 'cause I needed money. So I could like pay the right people to still get out. Just because you are now allowed to leave, you don't get to leave yet, you still have to play the game. - Even though you were legally supposed to get out, you still have to bribe your way out. - Yeah, because, no, I used to be in this in my book, but there was a guy there who was only supposed to be there for, there was a guy there who got out who was supposed to be released and then he'd go the front. And then I used to, where's my sub-achitile, which he wants his bribes, his wants his dramatic. And then he's leaving immediately. I was like, hey, there's families right there. And Sam, I want you to go home, but you don't have anything for me? All right, well, your paperwork has come through yet. You have to go back to your cell. And he was sending people back into their cell and telefamily, yeah. Hi, sorry, I really wanted to be released, but no, no, so but you know, there's come bags over there. - That's why it's so profitable to be in prison, working as like a warden or a guard. - It's just the way it is, dude. - So, so you get released December, almost Christmas time. - Yeah, there are these December 23rd. - So you made, did you make it home by Christmas? - I got strip searched at O'Hare airport in Chicago, Christmas day, because I was the only white person getting off a plane full of Muslims. Yeah, it was hysterical. - Dude, talk about the irony. - Reverse. - It was a reverse race, isn't it? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - But the greatest thing about it was I had sex on the plane from Amsterdam to O'Hare. - Get the fuck out of here. - Because the girls that sat with me had known all about me. And the girls like, you haven't, you haven't, you haven't had sex in three years. And I was like, now the woman, they love my sense of humor, but they were great. So I was making out with two Pakistani girls on the plane to Manchester, and then one of the girls continued on the flight to O'Hare because she was studying. I think it's her honor. And then, yeah, hooked up with her in the, I did the math through. - You messed up with the bathroom? - Yeah, well not in the fucking seat. But yeah, in the bathroom, I joined the math club. That must have been the quickest nut. - It was awkward for sure. - It's not as great as you'd think it. It's good to be in a small bathroom. - It doesn't sound great. I mean, you're an airplane bathroom's all the time. - I was tiny and disgusting. - I was happy regardless. And then that day, Christmas day, 2004, when I should have been in LAX, I missed my connecting flight. And the news story kicked me to the back because 300,000 people got killed that day with the Southeast Asia tsunami. - Oh, I remember that. Yeah, that's crazy. So I got, I was just to be like, "I'm good morning America in the next day." And I really wanted to do my stories, but then I, no one cared because there's, God decided to do it as an aspect. - So this is the question on everybody's mind is what the fuck happened to Ray, the guy that set you up. His name isn't even Ray. - His name is Rasmus Menace. - Rasmus. - So he made a deal. He wasn't the top guy at the total pool. - Okay, yeah, real quick. 'Cause I know you gotta get outta here. The DEA, at what point in your incarceration in Pakistan did the DEA go arrest Rasmus? - Remember, I was six months there in jail. And they showed me they had arrested him. So I guess in six months. - Okay. - And they only because of the Swedish girl. And then her story matched mine. He got bail, but my mom's investigator said, this is the same guy. And so they re-arrested him, denied him bail. While he was in jail, he was given up everyone. His information led to the biggest drug bust in Glendale history. Like 19 Armenian, Iranian drug smugglers and people. So they, they nabbed, they gave up all kinds of people. Because of that, he would only serve four and a half years in jail. He was, his record was expunged. He was never punished for what he did to me because of all the information he gave. I want a $20.4 million civil suit against him. And every 10 years, I have to renew. Unfortunately, his name is like a John Smith in the Armenian community. So finding a Rasmic Manassian is not easy. There's so many of them. And I'll keep renewing it in case something happens. He wins a lottery, he buys a bunch of Bitcoin something just so he doesn't ever get off. But every 10 years, I have to renew it. - What do you mean, renew? - Renew that judgment that I have against him. - Okay, so you got, they found him and brought him to trial. - No, he was in jail when I wanted, he was still in jail for four and a half years. So I wanted my civil suit judgment against him while he was still in jail. - Okay, so you just can't get any money out of him 'cause he hides it. - Because they don't know which one's him. So when I've had investigators trying to find out who's who, they come up with a bunch of Rasmic Manassians, but they don't know which one is him. - So it's like a John Smith. - Yeah. - Fuck, that's so fucked up. - Yeah. - What would even you can't find who the right one is. I guess they can't force him. You know, they can't, you can't send sheriffs to like, you know, digging to his records. - I guess. - So real quick on this, I did find him. It's in my book. I found him on Facebook. He thought he was meeting a girl that was completely out of his fucking league for a coffee date. And it beat the shit out of him and our house parking lot in Northridge. This asshole went straight 'cause I was trying to find like a wallet on him so I could have his address. He didn't have a wallet on him, so I never got his address. People saw a white guy beating the crap out of an Armenian, so all these Asian people were calling the cops. I mean, I look like a fucking monster. I broke his thumb, he was screaming. I wanted to break all his fingers because I got all my fingers broken. But I didn't have enough anger at me to go on with it. Cops showed up, he was crying underneath the car and I left, I was pissed. I never had his address. But a month later, detective calls me and says this is the detective web from the Devinshire Police Armament. Maybe Sheriff's Station. There was an incident where you need you to come in and give us a report so we can clear your name. I was like, "Clear my name." That's nice of you guys. You guys are clear your name's now? So what do you mean? I was like, "Is the Easter Bunny gonna be there? Santa Claus gonna be there?" I was like, "Is it gonna be my name?" He's gonna arrest me. He's like, "Well, you can come to us or we can come to you as a come to me. I'm not gonna make this a rest easy. Go fuck yourself." I hung up. So I was playing poker and running games at the time. And one of my buddies, I had a couple poker players who were lawyers and one of them was entertainment lawyers. So he can't do shit, but he had a friend he recommended me to and I told him the story and he goes, "Would you tell the cops? Tell him to go fuck himself." He goes, "Oh, yeah, this is terrible." He goes, "It wasn't me to admit anything else," I was like, "No." He goes, "Well, that's the only good news." He contacts the detective on my behalf and the detective says that supposedly Ray went to him and said, "Some crazy white guy he's never met before." Says he put him on death row, attacked him. It was unwarranted and he goes, "That's weird because my guy has a judgment against him." And the detective goes, "Yeah, he failed to mention that." So when they sent the judgment to him, the guy's exact words were 20 million dollars and they go, "There's a little bit more of the story than that guy's telling you." So then my lawyer says, "You're just going to go to the sheriff's station and talk to him." I don't want to go to the sheriff's station, they're going to arrest me because no, they're not, but you have to go talk to them. So I show up to the sheriff's station and like a room will half this size, wall-to-wall, cops, little table. I'm the guy he told to go fuck himself. Hey, how you doing? And I proceed to tell him a very quick 40-minute cracker-jack version of what happened. Basically, this story that I told you, but a lot more rushed, a lot more pain. One of the guards, one of the cops goes, "And you didn't fucking kill this guy?" (laughing) For sure. This guy goes, "So we have you for impersonating someone, lure in someone there, assault." That carries 12 to 15 years in jail. It sounds like this guy got a little street corner justice. Never do it again. And I'm sitting in this fucking room thinking, "Wow, this piece of shit had me on death row." And he tried to put me back in jail again. And all I did was break his fucking thumb. And so I'm sitting across from these cops. I'm like, "Yeah, okay." So that was my only little bit of street corner justice payback that I got. - Well, at least you got that. I mean, of course the guy went to the cops. He's a total scumbag. He ratted on everybody. He knowingly set you up to be, I mean, look, he may have purposely been the one to set you up. He may have coordinated with the Pakistanis to say, "Okay, you know what? It's his turn to get arrested. We're gonna send through five other people." - I don't think he did, but I think someone else there did. - Right. - 'Cause they're gonna say, "Hey, we sold him 20 KG of heroin." - Right. - When it was only 3.6 KG of opium, which is not as expensive as the other stuff. So they're getting paid for the drugs that they supposedly gave. And also by making me the rabbit, you say, chasing the rabbit, it opens the floodgates for all the other people to get there. - So not that Rosanna's not a scumbag, but it's Rasmann is not a scumbag, but he might not have been the one. He wasn't even the highest guy on the totem pole, so he might not have even been the one to have set you up. - So maybe-- - He's a one that hired me. He knew what I was doing. He definitely knew what I was doing. 'Cause he's in the wrong-- - He's in the wrong-- - He's in the wrong-- - He's in the wrong-- - He's in the wrong-- - And those are just theories, whether or not, maybe the cop was a good cop, and did his job and cop me. Maybe I was only there for 3.6, but I doubt it. I think that they set me up to be the fall guy so that they can get more drugs through. - Well, that's it. That goes back to my question at the beginning. Who's smuggling opium? - Yeah. - That's the cheap version. That was to get you cops that could send through the heroin. - Yes, that's what I think. - And that's what it is. - That was everyone's reaction in GL2, that all the Nigerians are like, "Why opium?" - Yes. - 'Cause I don't do it. - Yeah, and it's because they don't mind losing the opium. That's the cheap stuff. - Anyways, what kind of plug my book? - Of course, man, plug your book. I just want to point out, you've gotten your life back, you're constantly working in movies and TV and you own businesses and you've-- - I don't know, I own a bar in Georgia called Audez Ice Cream Bar. I own two bars in Sherman Oaks, one's called Tipsy Cat, one's called La Bouve, which is like a wine bar with like charcuterie. No Armenians allowed though. (laughing) And if you want them to pay with stolen credit cards, which seems to be the trend, I don't know, I'm opening up a taco spot called Sophie's Tacos in Greenville, and I'm also opening up a Speakeasy Cigar Lounge also where I live in Greenville. My book is called Three Years in Pakistan, the Eric I Day Story. I narrate the whole thing. You can get it on most audio book platforms. There's two documentaries, one's called Locked Up Abroad, I'm the only idiot to play themself. I don't recommend that one, but there's also the other one's called Three Years in Pakistan. I think you can get it on Amazon. It's eventually gonna be called The Price of Pride, it's getting a name change. Just so it's getting a fresh look. I'm still working in Hollywood, I'm stunt coronation, I'm doing stunts. I'm married, I got a wonderful wife, and I got nine dogs and five cats, and I've got a good life. And I just, I definitely, you know, I'm a lot more cautious when I meet people. I'll look both ways down a one way, 'cause that's how much little faith I have in humanity. But I still try to leave this place a little bit better. I tell people that no matter how bad it gets, it could always be worse. And, you know, when, like you said, you said you're kind of a daddy's boy, got daddy issues, and you don't think you could tell if you are, but we're built to adjust. If you were throwing into the deep end of the pool, you'd find the will to swim. So, don't ever, and always talk. I tell people, always talk kindly to yourself. You gotta be your biggest supporter. Stop thinking negative, you know, could always be worse. Even in jail, I would've told myself how lucky I was. I didn't sit in a corner and feel bad for myself. I would tell myself, hey, at least I'm big enough to defend myself, at least I got people on the outside who care about me, at least I'm smart enough to adjust to the situation. So, there's always, there's always light. - Yeah, you can always choose, you always have a choice. You can always choose how to react to your situation. - Through every bad day, there's a bright shadow day after that. So, no matter how hard it gets, you just stick your chest out, keep your head up and you handle it. Unless that's your day to be hung, sorry. - You know what, I would even play that the notion that if I were ever to have been hung, I still would have given the crowd a jest, flip the new man and nickel and gone down with both thumbs up, because fuck 'em. - Did you, what'd you think about that? Like, man, the worst case scenario? - Oh yeah, I was not gonna go down crying. That was a good, I was rocking. I wanted to make people laugh if I was my last dinner. That was gonna make them laugh. One of my heroes, I'm leaving after this, one of my heroes was Davey Crocket. You know, Davey Crocket knew he was gonna die, so he went out with a joke and asked the whole Mexican army to surrender to him. (laughing) - Died like a G. (laughing) - He did, yes he did. - Eric, man, thank you so much. Go get his book, we're gonna link to in the description and push that, go get three years in Pakistan. What an amazing odyssey, I'm grateful for you and I'm inspired by you. I really am. You've never happened to me on, I appreciate it. And I hope I didn't offend too many people. I'm sorry, I'm the way I am, but the way I am has got me through a lot of bad times, so. - Absolutely, yeah. Okay, you guys, thanks a lot. And go get three years in Pakistan. Take care. (upbeat music)