Conversations with Members: Nicci Statham

Exploring Nicci Statham's Coaching and Supervision Practice Welcome to the EMCCUK Podcast and welcome to this conversation with members episode featuring Nicky Staton. Nicky chats to host Beth Claire McManus about how working with an intention of being for ourselves and for others provides an open hearted foundation for coaching and supervision practice. Nikki speaks about the important role her supervisor has played in supporting her development both personally and professionally, and how we could all spend less time judging and more time enjoying ourselves. There's a real warmth to this conversation with explorations of the role of integrity in our work, how contracting is both a process and a relational element of our practice, and how remaining unattached outcomes can be a challenging but rewarding thing to attain. Conversations with Members is a series of personal, community driven conversations celebrating the expertise, values and lived experience of the EMCCUK coaching, mentoring and supervision community. The series aims to inspire, inform, and connect our members by sharing insights into real world practice and the evolving nature of the field. Each conversation balances storytelling with practical reflections, offering a unique window into the diverse perspectives of our membership. Speaker 2 Hello, and welcome to conversations with members of the EMCCUK podcast, where we get curious about the people who make up our vibrant community. I'm your host, Beth Claire McManus, and I'm so pleased to be joined today by Nicky Statham. Hi, Nicky. Speaker 3 Hi, pleasure to be here. Speaker 2 Really lovely to have you here. What would you like to share about yourself and your professional practice? Speaker 3 That's a very big question. I guess I'd like to share about my niche I guess you'd call it or my what my professional practice is, which is executive coaching now for course nearly 18 years I think. So it's a very long time and I'm now a coaching supervisor as well, which is my absolute passion. So I've got 2 practices in a way, very much coaching that I'm doing every week and then supervision as well now. So it's, yeah, it's full on. And my specialist area is behaviour change. So I'm working a lot with mindset and attitude. And so it's been really interesting doing that in supervision and then not doing it sometimes as well. Speaker 2 Yeah. I was just going to ask you is that is that thread of behaviour change still present in your supervision work? Would you say that's a specialist area there or what does that? Speaker 3 Look, it is. However, I think what I've noticed since I started doing supervision is that I used to focus more on it and now I see the differences more between my coaching practice and my supervision practice. So I use very similar techniques, but it's in a different focus. It's in a reflective focus rather than a dull focus, if that makes sense. Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, I do both coaching and supervision. And I'm currently, as I listen to you reflecting on what's what's different in those spaces because kind of the things I'm interested in working with are probably quite broadly quite similar, but they do feel like they show up slightly differently in each in each relationship. Speaker 3 Yeah, very much so nice and. The Joy and Challenge of Volunteering with EMCC UK What drew you to EMCCUK? Speaker 3 Well, I've been a member for quite a few years now. I had a little break, but I can't remember how long that long ago that was. But what I really like is the, I think there's a really open culture. That's what I would say. That's what I noticed about it. It's very inclusive. And I think in terms of the CPD and, and generally sessions that are available, the events, there's a lot and it's wide-ranging and I do quite a few for my practice. And also I used to run a network as well. So I think there's a lot of variety, a lot of different people. It's very diverse and I love that as well. Speaker 2 Yeah. Would you mind speaking a little bit about your experience of volunteering and running a network? What drew you to doing that? Speaker 3 It was really funny actually because I ran the network for a little while with the lady that I did my coaching training with, which was a very interesting turn of events. Yeah, it was. It was really great. I mean, the only reason we stopped doing it really was because of the the capacity for us both to do it. But it was really fun. It was great working in partnership with somebody to do it. And we had some great speakers and we met some really interesting people. And again, a variety, a lot of new coaches. That's what I notice about events these days. There's a lot of newer coaches who are like sponges wanting to to learn and develop their practice. But yeah, it's really well supported I would say about EMCC as well. So it's it's definitely something I would look at doing a game when I've got more capacity. Speaker 2 Yeah. And I think that's such a wise framing to to think about because, yeah, my own experience of volunteering with the MCC in particular has been really joyful and it's, it's a really fun and engaging and and you know, very community driven thing to do. But the capacity piece, you know, because people are doing it on a voluntary basis, I think it's really wise to think about capacity as the deciding factor as to whether you're doing it or not. You know, I think the will for me personally would remain even when my capacity is is sort of diminished. So. Speaker 3 Yeah, very much so. And for me, it's really important that if I'm going to do things like that, but I'm, I do it well, if that makes sense. And that it's, we're focusing on the quality of the sessions and things like that. And that's, that's the thing about capacity for me is that it's, I want to be able to give my all to it and give it the headspace it deserves. So, yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah, I, I could totally align with that. Like, you know, it's a it's trying to make a contribution to the field in a way that, yeah, is good, good value and quality for, for others to engage with. And also, you know, I think I get a lot out of my volunteering. It's not a purely selfless endeavour. You know, doing this, I get to meet lots of wonderful people and have these nice conversations. So yeah, I think you've got to kind of think about what you get from it as well. Speaker 3 Yeah, definitely. And I think it's always interesting working with different people when, you know, I'm, I'm a great believer that any experience can be used to grow, particularly the ones we don't like. Speaker 2 Oh yeah, or. Speaker 3 That. Speaker 2 We're uncomfortable. Yes, I definitely resonate with that. Yeah, strongly so yes. OK, well, without getting into all of my baggage, is there such a thing we've. Speaker 3 All got it. Speaker 2 Yes, yeah. Oh yeah. Managing Energy, Setting Boundaries, and EMCC UK Benefits Is there such a thing as a typical day in your work? Speaker 3 Well, yes and no. So I've got a very varied schedule for one of a better word. But what I do religiously every day is I, which I learnt on a development course that I did in America, and this is probably, oh gosh, I don't know, 678 years ago is to get up and get out and it helps to get my energy going. So at the moment I'm cycling every day. And so that really helps me to get focused. And often when I'm cycling, I'm processing. So I'm, I'm noticing how I'm feeling and what's going on the day before and I'm clearing up for one of a better word things that might be hanging around. So I'm clear headed, you know, sometimes it works well, sometimes it doesn't, but it's really getting focused on my mindset. And then I'm, I'm off. And so sometimes I'm doing supervision, sometimes coaching. And I do like to these days leave space in between. I used to be somebody who did back-to-back things and I don't do that anymore. So my my main focus at the moment is managing my energy and so which is a is a whole journey of in itself, but it's really important for me to have space so I can stay present and, and take care of myself actually. Speaker 2 Yeah, I think that's really important and I'm interested in you saying it's about managing your energy. I've had a bit of a mindset shift over the last 12 months, informed actually by lots of coaching and supervision conversations where time seems to be the focus, and having this realization myself that there will always be time, but there won't always be energy. So when people are really blocked from doing the things they want to do and that the reasoning is often like there's no time. People are living busy lives. So I understand that. And time is, you know, difficult. But I've recognised for me and actually for lots of my clients, it is more about energy than it is about time. Because if I've got half an hour, but it's 8:00 PM after a really full day, I'm not going to do the nice bit of reading or writing or whatever it is that I'm kind of putting off or not prioritising because it's about me and my growth and development. So it is an energy thing. I'm really interested in your you kind of highlighting that as well as an energy piece. Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, for me, I've been working with that for quite a while. And so over the last few years, getting more connected with my body and how I'm feeling, where my emotions are and navigating what I need, what I don't need. So I really hear what you're saying about I might, I might have space to do something, but that doesn't necessarily mean either I want to do it and also that I've got the energy for it. And I, I read Stephen Covey's book, this is a while ago now, which I know is actually quite old now. I think it might even be the 80s. But he had this phrase in it, which was schedule your priorities, not prioritise your schedule. And it had a profound impact on me because I thought I can always, I've, I'm a list person, so I've always got a list, but that doesn't necessarily mean the things on my list are the things that are priority in terms of what my purposes are in my practice and in my life. And so it's finding ways to schedule the things that are that are important and that I want to give my energy to, not just that I've got energy for, but do I want to give my energy to those things, You know, like we're talking about volunteering what, you know, what do I want to give my time to? You know, So I think in that sense, time is important in that I do have a limit. We've all got a limited amount. And so I want to give my time and energy to things that really matter to me. Speaker 2 Yeah, I love that and I love the yeah, the COVID reference of scheduling your priorities because I all, I think that I notice when I'm busy, had quite a busy period recently that all the things that I really want to do, but that are not urgent and not tied to a deadline and not tied to a commitment to anybody else just get moved further and further down the line. And I'm like, I'm moving this really, really important thing to me. And by like the third or fourth time of moving it, I have to have a word with myself and be like, right, OK, what like what is going on here? And usually it's that I feel like my commitments to other people, to deadlines, to volunteering, et cetera, will take precedent over the things that matter to me. And like sometimes they have to. But I do think that, yeah, I'm, that's a constant and probably lifelong bit of work for me in really being able to prioritize the things that matter and where I want to spend my energy versus where I feel like I should be spending it or where I've kind of over committed probably being vulnerable there. That's definitely some of my work that I'm doing. Speaker 3 Yeah, I know what you mean. I've done that many times. And I think it takes a lot of courage to say no to things and to let go of things or put someone said to me the other day, it's not necessarily dropping it, it's just putting it down for a little while, which is I really like the the phrasing of that was was lovely. It just seemed a lot more gentle. And you know, because for me, I'm somebody, if I commit to something, I'll take it very seriously. And so I could very easily beat myself up if I decide not to do it anymore or, And so it it's a yeah, it's a, it's not a decision I make easily to stop a commitment or let go of it or put it down for a while. Speaker 2 Yeah. And I hear the kind of energy that you have for your work and the passion that you have for the work that you're doing. So I, I imagine based on my own experience that you will have opportunities that feel very hard to say no to because they're things that you would enjoy doing and you would really like to do. And maybe like, I find sometimes that's part of the challenge that the work we do as coaches, as supervisors, like in adjacent spaces is really joyful work that gives us a lot as well as we're, you know, we're giving to our clients. So it can be very hard to kind of want to say no to that or not now or you know, to put it down as you said. Speaker 3 Yeah, I think it's a practice, or for me it is anyway, to get comfortable with it. Actually, yeah, I did it yesterday, in fact, in a meeting. Someone asked me a direct question. Can you do it? They wanted me to do a meeting on Sunday and I said no. But I've been wrestling with it for a couple of weeks because for various reasons. But actually it it, it's a, it's a, what I now call is a hard boundary. On Sunday is my day off. I'm not going to do that. So yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah, one of my coaching clients refers to those as the red lines, and I really like that. Like that's a red line for me. Like I'm not, I won't cross it. I'm not going to break it. Speaker 3 Yeah, because otherwise I'm breaking my commitment to myself. Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Speaker 1 EMCCUK encourages excellence for coaches, mentors and supervisors. Our professional membership body promotes ethical best practice and champions high standards for everyone working in the field. As a member, you can enjoy support, resources and professional development opportunities to enhance your practice and develop your skills to the highest level. To find out more information, visit [email protected]. Guiding Values: Integrity, Authenticity, and Self-Awareness OK, well you've started to touch on this a little bit, so let's move into our next question, which is what are the guiding values and principles that underpin your practice. So there's clearly something there about looking after yourself and your kind of self boundaries. But what else feels important underneath your your practice? Speaker 3 Well, it's interesting you've just said that and I'm hearing myself just before talking about commitment. So that would be 1 about what I'm committing to because I've learnt through my development how important my, how important my word is to myself and to other people. And so commitment for me is important to be clear about what I'm committing to and then taking it seriously. And, and my integrity really I'd say, you know, when you, you ask the question. So for me, that is part of my integrity. But for me, my integrity encompasses very many things, which is commitment, being honest and open and being authentic. I think that's probably my biggest commitment. So, and again, I mean, I'm sure this may resonate in that in doing many, many, many years now of development, it's really been peeling off layers of fear essentially. And, and then so there's been for me, there's been a lot of courage of that, but also there's a lot of me that's available now that wasn't available before. And it's really, really important for me to be honest and authentic. And I remember my supervisor saying she did, she gave me this exercise years ago, which was the difference between practising, noticing when I was nice, pleasing and accommodating or alive, vital and real. And they're two very different things. So I think for me, particularly when I'm supervising, that's become more prominent because it's really important, I think to say what I'm seeing, to say what I'm noticing. That's the, you know, the large part of the purpose of it for me is growth for me and those that I'm in the supervision space with. And so if I show up and I'm not saying what I'm seeing or I'm not open to what other people are feeding back to me, then am I really there? That makes sense. Am I really being myself? Am I really, you know, showing up fully? So I'd say that's the most important thing. And it takes a lot of courage to do that sometimes. Speaker 2 Absolutely. And I think as well, what I'm noticing is going on for me is as you talk about authenticity, you reference that kind of bringing a bit more of yourself now into your practice than was perhaps previously available either to you or that you made available to clients. There is that sort of ongoing debate amongst coaches of, you know, how much of yourself should you bring into the session? And I notice a real shift over the years of my practice between working in a very, almost quite guarded way, you know, without without to do the work and you don't need to know anything about me and my perspective and what's going on for me. And over time, really noticing where it like, I think skilfully, I hope skilfully, I can bring parts of myself in service of the work and in service of the client and feeling way less tightly wound about bits of me being in the space. I don't know if that resonates with you. Speaker 3 It does. I, I think for me, what's coming up as you're speaking is it's more about being what I would phrase as being natural and being open to saying things that come into my, I don't know if this is what you mean, but saying things that come into my head or making a joke or whatever it is, but it's being more naturally myself and at the same time keeping it within the context of the conversation. So I think often, sometimes I notice with this sort of conversation, some people can interpret that to mean disclosure of some sort. For me, that's not what I mean. It's more about saying, oh, actually I noticed that I'm thinking this or it's actually being open about like we're talking about like this is what's going on for me. And this is what came up when you said that. And and so it's not keeping those things in if it's relevant to the conversation and being to me that's being in partnership, yeah, with somebody in a conversation because I'm, I'm sharing what's really going on for me in a, in a yeah. Does that make sense in a, it's just more being more open, I think. And yeah, like what I'm thinking and feeling. Speaker 2 Yeah, I think disclosure is interesting. I noticed maybe in a supervision relationship there might be some elements of disclosure based on past experience, like practice experience. So I might share if I've been in a similar situation if that feels helpful and it's in line with what the client needs. But certainly in coaching, exactly as you describe, it's that noticing what's going on for me and offering that as kind of data into the space rather than me making it about me or my experience or, or what's going on for me in the past. Yeah. Speaker 3 Yeah. And it's having the self-awareness, I think to know the difference. Yeah, it's like what's, that's what I'm hearing. It's like what's mine and what's relevant here that's going to support the context of the conversation. Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely. Who does this belong to? And sometimes it might be, but it belongs to both of you. And that's when it gets a bit muddy and complex. And yeah, that's what supervision's for, for me. Like to unpick some of those. Yeah, more, more tangled bits and bobs that might come up. Speaker 3 Yeah, so like, now I really want to naturally say I love your cat. Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. So for those listening, my cat Peanut is always around when I'm doing things that require like, quiet and calm. And he's always got that little glint in his eye that he's just going to come and knock things over or start start meowing or doing something. He's actually totally shouting. Yeah, he's shouting in the hallway at the moment, so you probably can't hear him. But yeah, if there is any meowing it's definitely Peanut Pickles fast asleep somewhere in the in the other room I think. Speaker 3 They're called peanut and pickle. Speaker 2 Peanut and pickle, yes. Speaker 3 I love that. Speaker 2 Yeah, they are. They are a joy and yeah, they are. I have to contract for them in my work because I work from home and they and they live here. And so, you know, they're going to sometimes be present and sometimes I think it's good. Again, bringing data into the relationship. Sometimes they emerge at times when it's kind of meaningful to the client that the cats appeared, you know, maybe in a moment of emotion or where something significant is being spoken about. So I just treat it as as data. But yeah, that's part of how I work. Speaker 3 You're a team. Speaker 2 Yes, yeah, they're definitely part of my part of my team. Overcoming Judgment and Embracing Vulnerability in Practice OK, so we're going to move into what I had originally termed quick fire questions and then slowly, well quite quickly realise they're not necessarily quick fire answers. So don't feel you've got to keep it succinctive. There's something that comes up that you want to share. The first one is what's a theme that you support clients with that you sometimes struggle with yourself? Speaker 3 Well, recently it it's the the what I'm going to call the tyranny of the should. So what I work quite often with clients on is this what I would frame as a judgement on myself and others that things should be a particular way or myself, other people, things in, you know, events in the world. And actually that that's I'm helpful in that. Do any of us really know what that is? And I've learned in my own development that that I just certainly don't know. And I don't know anyone else that doesn't know. And it's almost a bit of omnipotence in that sense that actually it's got a significant impact because for me, and when I'm working with clients, the consequence of being from what we're trapped in the shoot is that the focus is on that. And then often we don't see other possibilities. And there's like a, it's almost like a defence of, you know, say, for instance, you know, I believe I should be a certain way. It's like all my energy is spent defending that or trying to, you know, trying to make it different. Whereas actually I could be focusing on what I am and getting creative with that or developing that. But it's a very, in my experience, limiting mindset. And it's extremely common and it's everywhere in the world, in the media. And therefore, understandably for you know, for me or humans, it's it can be very hard to not do that. So, and it's something that I, that I struggle with myself and I actively work on, which is part of what I'm doing sometimes in my daily cycle is clearing it. Yeah, really. So I can get back to us a cleaner space where I'm looking at things as they are and being willing to get aligned with that, which serves me much better. Yeah. Speaker 2 Some great insight there. I think that Yeah, should I? Definitely very common client language, you know, very, very recurrent things that are brought into the space are these stories that we're holding and often based on other people's, whether that's someone we know or society in general, you know, expectations or what we think, the assumptions we make about other people's expectations. And I think, yeah, I resonate with that as work that I think is available for all of us to sit in. And but it is really hard. It's hard to break some of those shoulds, especially when you talked earlier about wanting, you know, you're wanting to do things really well. You talked about your commitment being really important. I think you know that can also link itself very easily to lots of shoulds. Speaker 3 Yes, yes, yes. Which is very unhelpful because it then limits me. As I've just described, it limits me and I'm on myself, you know, and so, and the truth is, I don't know how things should be including me, including other people. And it's not Sometimes I think it's not a popular mindset because there's a lot in the world that is dependent on keeping that going. And they can be, oh, for me, what I've learned in my own development with that is that there's a lot of fear underneath. It can be, there's sometimes there's a huge passion actually. So there's something in there that can be explored and expanded because there's really, you know, it's something that I'm really attached to. There's something in it for me, but it doesn't need to be assured. And when I'm willing to let go of it and to acknowledge that, I don't know, it's a very different outlook and it's a very different space to be in. Speaker 2 Well, it's quite, yeah. I don't know. It is a very sort of egoless place to be that I think a lot of us, myself included, can struggle to truly inhibit that space, you know, to let go of our ego and to to be in a vulnerable space. It's much easier to be pointy finger shudge judgy to yourself than it is to be. Speaker 3 Like. Speaker 2 I don't know what I'm doing, don't know what I think. Speaker 3 I know I really hear you for me or you know, even recently really big unknowns, I feel really vulnerable. That's why and I'm scared. I'm really scared sometimes. And so and that, like you say, it's or what I hear when you're saying is I recognise for me, I can fill that void or gap with my fears, or I can accept that I at this point, I just don't know. And I don't know when I will know and that's a possibility or I can fill it with with possibility. I know a lot of people talk about positive thinking, but I or I don't know if it's positive psychology. But for me, I'm not a huge, not the psychology part, but I'm, I'm much more of a fan of staying in the don't know space rather than it's not necessarily not being optimistic, but it's not assuming that I know the outcome because actually I don't. And the more I can stay in that vulnerable space and, and hold it and hold myself, it's, I mean, it's more than possible. I've done it loads of times. It's just sometimes it seems bigger and it's, you know, this is the thing. This is what I notice in my development now is sometimes I think, oh gosh, haven't I done this already? Yeah. And then I don't know if you get this, but then it's like it's, it's a bigger game. It's like the same piece, but it's a bigger game now. And there's a bigger thing for me to see or to grow here. Yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, in a slightly flippant example of that, I I'm not a cyclist, I'm a runner. I'm quite late, quite late to life runner. And I started running last year and I went for a run yesterday later in the day than I really wanted to because it was raining in the morning and I didn't want to go out in the rain. So I went later and I got home and literally said to my partner, like, can that not just be it? Like, what do you mean I've got to go again? Like I've got to keep doing this. And as much as I get so much from it, and I also use running in the way you're describing your cycling, like to clear this space to kind of just give my head a bit of a wobble just to have a bit of space that's mine. And obviously all the endorphins and all the other lovely things that are going on. But yeah, I literally got home and was like, I don't know if I can ever do that again. And I I go like 3 * a week. So obviously I know that I will go again. But yeah, I can totally resonate with that. Is this not done now? Have I not done the work? Speaker 3 Didn't I do this already? Why am I doing it again? Speaker 2 Yeah, and I love the idea of applying that into the sort of the inner work that all of us are doing as we, you know, we're supporting other people to do it. But I very much see coaching and supervision as deeply developmental work to do as a practitioner. You know, we're having to confront ourselves all the time. So yeah, I love the application. I'm laughing to myself about my flippant running remark, but really noticing that I have that sense sometimes of like, have I not, have we not done this? Have I not already put the work in here? Like the work will never be done if you you know, if you're open to doing it, I think. Speaker 3 Yeah. Finding Inspiration and Cultivating Presence in Life And I think as you're saying that I think there's sometimes for me, there's something to notice about where I am with something. And if it's reoccurring, I might be thinking to myself, well, do I still want to do this? And you know, what's my commitment? And, you know, maybe it's time for something else. Who knows? Speaker 2 Yeah. OK. You've mentioned a couple of things, but I wonder is there anything a particular person or thing that you find very inspirational for your work, Anybody's sort of book or general work or themes and things that you find very inspiring? Speaker 3 Few things coming up 1 is my supervisor, who's I'd say has been my role model in terms of really supporting me to be true to my essence in my life and in my practice and has been unwaveringly alongside me, even if I, and sometimes I haven't worked with her for a couple of years. I've worked with other people, but it doesn't really matter. It's, it's so she's my, my guru in that respect. And the other thing that's coming up is for me, I, the power of now is a book that I, it's not that I go back to, but I, I do hear myself recommending it to clients sometimes. And I haven't read it myself for quite a few years. But for me, it's, it's this thing about being present and noticing where my head is. Am I the book itself had a, a significant impact on me in that I really liked the way it was written because it was very I'm very much a straight talker and it was very much written like that. And I found it quite hard hitting. I remember at the time, it's always the beginning because he was very much describing it as, you know, it's this or it's that, which now as a supervisor, I might say actually do do know it's this or it's that. But you know, the time when I read it, it was really supportive to really to really get clear about noticing where, where my mind is. Am I projecting something in the future or is it hanging back to something that, you know, am I, am I in the here and now and being present? And I'd say particularly in my practice, that's really, really important to be to notice in the moment where my head is. That really supports me well. Speaker 2 Yeah, I love, I love both those reflections. You know, that such kind, thoughtful feedback about your supervisor that I'm sure any supervisor would be just so delighted to hear that you know, the depth of, of support that that relationship has clearly offered you. And also thinking about, even if we've not read something for a while, things can have a lasting impact. And you know, you're, if you went back to read it now, you might read it differently or get or take something else from it because you, you know, you're not the same person. So it's also, it's interesting that it's kind of stayed with you and your thinking on it has evolved. Like you can notice where things are maybe less true or feel less true than when you first read it. I think that's a really interesting lens. Speaker 3 Yeah. And I think since I've read it, I've done a few because it's my take on it is essentially it's, it's Buddhism in in a, in a roundabout way. And I've done a few Buddhist retreats now and, and experienced other things. And so, but the essence of it, I think is the thing that's that's prominent for me in that this is how things are in this moment or how I am and how things are in this moment. And that's all it is. It's hard to remember that if I'm you know. Speaker 2 Yeah, our brains sometimes jump ahead or, or dwell in the past or, you know, they're kind of, they can be a bit all over the place, can't they? But being in the present moment is such a powerful tool, such a powerful thing to be able to access. Speaker 3 Yes, very much so, and takes practice like those things. Speaker 2 Yeah, most things that are worth having take a bit of work, a bit of practice, I think. OK, the last of the quick fire questions, which I'm sorry, it is a huge, enormous question. Navigating the Future of Coaching, AI, and Supervision Quality And it's is there a big question that you're holding about the future of the field? And I suppose you could think of that as coaching or supervision or bring them together, whichever kind of feels they're all kind of entangled, I think. Speaker 3 Well, a couple of things. One is I wonder about the market. I notice that, which is wonderful. Like I said earlier on, a lot of events I go to, there's a lot of new coaches and the, and the market is, I'm going to use, use the word diluted. I don't mean that in terms of the quality, but I wonder how in the future or you know, now ongoing, I guess how that market is going to evolve because there's lots, I mean, there's always been lots of different types of coaching and how that's going to be evaluated, I guess in a way, because for me being a seasoned coach, I guess for want of a better word, I wonder how you know things, you know, even whether it will be. I know people talk about regulation and things like that and I'm not a huge fan of that, but I do think it's important. I think I'm more thinking of it from people who are accessing coaching. How do they know, you know, how can they be well informed so they have a better sense of what they're choosing so they can get something that's a good fit for them? Which leads me to the other thing that I was pondering, which was about AI and I've not delved into it at all really. I don't really use it particularly. And but what I am excited about is how that can be accessed, particularly for people who couldn't necessarily afford to have a coach. So I wonder how that maybe there's a I'm sure it'll all, you know, it'll evolve as it evolves, but I would like to see that something to happen with that. Actually, that's a question for me. I was thinking about this and you know, I'm sure my guess is it will happen that things I guess quality products to be to evolve that support people to access that. Who can't afford it? Because I, I'm saying that because I know for me personally and for a lot of the clients that I've worked with, there are I think a number of key things mindset wise that somebody could hear. Because I've, I've had it myself many. And you mentioned it at the start, you know, you've had a shift and that can happen in a moment. And so if that could happen for the world and could change people's lives, then I, I would love to see that. Speaker 2 Absolutely. And it like both those things as you say, they're, they're kind of interlinked. There's this, it's a very generous question actually about the accessibility of coaching both sides of that coin. You know, it, it's the more coaches there are, the more accessible it becomes, right? Because there's going to be people charging different fees and being available at different times in different places. But there's also this question mark about, I guess the quality of the coaching. And also, I think I think that is often missed is information that supports our clients or prospective clients to make informed decisions about who to work with. And, you know, I think about this a lot because I started working with a new therapist last year and I spent quite a long time looking at lots of different people and meeting a few different people before I made a decision. And I was like, I actually don't think before I became a coach I would have ever known where to start, known that I could speak to more than one person, been clear about what I was looking for in terms of professional bodies, insurance, all of those things. Yes, you know, being in an adjacent field really helped me be both discerning and intentional about who I was going to do that work with, right, Because it's different vulnerable work. And it's really made me think about, oh God, I think I've actually been not intentionally, but like a bit naive in the past saying to people like, oh, well, you know, you can just find the right person. And actually it's not that's not the case, is it? If the person in front of you is the one that's saying we could do some coaching together and you're like, I don't really know what that is, but you seem nice and you seem like you want to help me. Speaker 3 Yeah. Speaker 2 Like I think that is often how people make decisions or certainly the first coach they work with can be as simple as as they're available and they're saying they're going to help me and we're not supporting people to make these big decisions about doing this. You know what can be quite life changing? Work in the in the space. Speaker 3 Yeah, and I think that's why supervision is so important. I mean, I, I'm absolutely passionate about supervision. That's my calling. I discovered when I did my qualification and I really would like to see that expand significantly in that sense and that when you were speaking, that's the thing that was coming up for me was how important it is. The word that came up was self regulate. But as, as somebody seeking coaching or supervision, how do I know that my coach or my supervisor does their own work? Because if they don't, I might get a very different service to you know. And so, but as you're saying in a roundabout way as well, I think that as somebody seeking a coach, I wouldn't know that that was important. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 3 Yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah, there's layers. There's layers of it. I think supervision and I think it still happens in supervision. I think I, when I trained as a supervisor, the scales came from off my eyes very quickly because I think I'd been holding an assumption that every supervisor was this like incredibly experienced, highly ethical, you know, high integrity coach with. And that is the case for lots of supervisors, right? There's loads of brilliant supervisors out there, but I've also worked with people who've had really poor experiences of supervision that I was like, oh, I really, I felt like very naive actually when I reflected on it. But I did feel quite shocked at this at the time because I think it was such a big decision for me to undertake that training. Like, I really had to believe that I was at a level of competence, experience, ethicality, criticality in my coaching practice to be able to undertake supervision and support others in that space, that I just sort of had made this assumption that everyone who becomes a supervisor would do the same. And I think for lots of people it is similar or aligned to that route. But there's definitely, as with coaching, you know, it's a very wide spectrum of experience ability. And, you know, the risk of harm is, is always present in this work. So it is important that we are thoughtful about who we do this work with and what we say we can offer and what we maybe are outside of our boundaries. Speaker 3 Yeah, I think it's important in, in the sense of like we were saying earlier, really what's, you know, what's mine as a supervisor or a coach and what's yours. And if I, I mean, I want to go back to the whole should thing now because it reminds me of that because I think, well, I'd, you know, I'm, I'm, even though I say things like that, I'm also a great believer that things happen for a reason. And if that's that's what happens at any given moment, there's a purpose to it. However, I think for me personally as a as a coach and a supervisor, the cleaner I can show up with a client, the more honed, I don't know what's the word that I want, the better I can serve them because I'm not in the way. And for me that that is the highest quality service that I can deliver, which is why it's important for me, the authenticity in that piece as well, because to me it's all part of the same thing really. So, and I think what is why it's important what we were talking about, you know, my word, the sort of natural. And this is what's going because it's, you know, I'm being honest about what's going on. And it's not, as you said, it's not that it's, it's finding that balance between it, it's not becoming about me. But I want to say the things that that are, that are coming up in terms of the contracting or whatever is relevant in the conversation. Because actually then I'm in partnership with my coach here or my supervisor. And it's I'm not offer a tangent believing that I know what's best because I don't. OK, that makes sense. I've got the sense that. Speaker 2 Really does. It really does. I love that. That. Yeah. That you're not when you're doing the work on yourself. That you're not then getting in the way of the client's work. You know, that feels. Yeah. Very clear. And sorry. My other cat is now here, trampling away from my desk after I said she wouldn't come. She's here. Oh, OK. Nicci's Vision: Expanding Supervision and Research Contributions Well, I think we've just got one last question, which is what's next for you? Speaker 3 Well, I think for me in my practice is building my supervision practice more this year. I'm also, I've had a research project on hold for the last six months or so because I've been again, capacity. That was one of the things in my, you know, we were talking earlier, but that was one of the things I might know, just put it down for a little while because it deserves proper attention. And it is, it is it will be a priority soon once I've completed some other things. So, but I'm really excited about that because that is going to be focused on supervision and I've got a big passionate purpose with it in that I'm wanting to contribute to the field of supervision to get it more widely recognised and more normal. What a better word in in coaching, mentoring practice and also to for my own development and to to contribute to what may be supportive for other supervisors, other coaches. So I'm excited about that. That's coming up. Speaker 2 Yeah, very best of luck with that. And hopefully you can find the energy and the space to sit it with that, with that research that feels like something. Yeah. I mean, I'm a researcher, so I'm obviously excited at the prospects of anybody making time to do research and also on supervision, like, yeah, please, please share it with me when you when you get there. Speaker 3 Yes, I will. Thank you. Speaker 2 All right. Well, thank you so, so much. I've had really enjoyed this conversation. I think we've been a little bit all over the place, but hopefully in a way that feels authentic and and kind of aligned to those values that you mentioned. Thank you. Just want to say thank you so much for your time and really lovely to be with you today. Speaker 3 Me too, Beth. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm honoured to be asked or to, you know, to be part of it. It's it's wonderful. Speaker 2 Well, it really is all my, you know, the pleasure is all my in offering you this space. It's been really wonderful hearing about your work and and your thoughts on the field and your plans for the future. So yeah, thanks so much. Speaker 1 Thank you for listening to this podcast from the EMCCUK. Together, our aim is to promote good practice and the expectation of good practice in coaching, mentoring and supervision. To learn more about the EMCCUK and to find out about membership, accreditation events, CPD opportunities and learning resources, visit EMCCU k.org. And remember to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss a future episode.