Consulting in the Middle East with Hassan Elhaj, Partner at Oliver Wyman

Welcome to Career Beats. 20-minute talks to navigate the new career development paradigm hosted by Carmen Gonzales, coach and career advisor at Iszade Careers. Hi listeners, I'm Carmen Gonzales, associate director of Iszade Careers, coach and passionate about and looking talent. I'm so pleased to be here with you today. The economic landscape of the Middle East region is promising to say the least. The rapid transformation of most of the Gulf countries is translating into strong opportunities for economic growth and innovation. Initiatives like the Saudi Vision 2030, at a good example of the efforts, the GCC and wider Middle East are taking to reduce the reliance on the export of fossil fuels and into diversifying the economy. As a result, industries like healthcare, infrastructure, tourism and education are on the rise. Under this scenario, it's clear that there is a significant opportunity and a growing need for management consulting in the Gulf. The digitalization of the economy and the investment in sustainable transformation are seeing consulting firms become key facilitators to improve operational and business processes. As organizations continue to expand, management consulting is becoming a main player in the region. With a focus on environmental preservation, renewable energy and social impact initiatives, GCC countries are offering interesting opportunities in sustainability and corporate social responsibility. But what's the real potential of such developments? Where is the Gulf region going and how is the consulting industry accompanying this journey? To answer these questions, I'm very excited to be co-presenting this episode with Harsh Chawan, president of our MBA consulting club. Harsh is currently completing our full-time MBA program and is totally passionate about the consulting industry, and specifically the Middle East region. So it's wonderful to be presenting this episode with him today. Thanks a lot, Carmen. And we both have the absolute pleasure to talk to Hassan Elakh, partner of the consulting firm Oliver Weiman, an alumnus of our full-time MBA program, class 2014. Hassan has profound experience in the management consulting industry, having worked for some of the top consulting firms in the world. So it's such an honor to talk to him. Hassan, we are so excited to have you with us today. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Good afternoon Carmen. Good afternoon, Harsh. And thank you for having me and thank you for that wonderful introduction. I think you really captured the spirit and the state of affairs in the region right now and in the consulting industry. That's nice to hear and we are so happy to have you with us today. We are so excited about the conversation. So let's start from the beginning. What took you to consulting and to Dubai specifically? Thank you. I think it's a very, I think there's two questions there, but they're obviously very, very interrelated. To be very honest, I didn't even know what consulting was when I was an undergrad. Everyone was doing my master's degree in the US. I wanted to work in politics. I was in turning for a congresswoman in DC. Consulting never even crossed my mind. But I was very passionate about the Middle East and I really thought that I wanted to find a career either international development or one of those international organizations like the World Bank. And I kind of stumbled into a small boutique consulting firm that was based out of DC doing a lot of work actually at the time in Abu Dhabi. And I think that was my entrance to the kind of consulting world. It was a very niche firm, but it exposed me to the type of work you can do and what was happening in the region. So I think that brought me to, maybe not directly to Dubai, but first to Abu Dhabi. And from there, I really saw that the impact you can have both in the region and through a consulting firm was immense. But knowing that I still needed to develop myself, I realized to continue that journey, I had to improve my business qualifications and skills, given that my background had all been more in the social sciences. And that actually led me to Assad and to actually meeting Carmen. So this is back in 2012. And actually thanks to you Carmen, you actually exposed me a lot more to the consulting industry and we're part of that education and understand all the big consulting firms. Who's doing what? Who's playing where? And I think that experience in Assad was probably what also helped me develop my knowledge and appreciation of the consulting space. But I had already been convinced that I want to go back to the UAE and to Dubai, which is fundamentally the at that time, the hub, where we saw a kind of consulting growing in the region. So I think it's a mix between the passion for the regional development to being part of that. And then consulting is presenting itself as one of the, I think, fastest and most efficient modalities have impact in the region. So I was kind of in some ways natural in some way circumstance, some ways luck, but I think all past kind of brought me to this merger of consulting and Middle East. Yeah, no, no, much lack I would say I think a lot of hard work from your side. You were the president of the consulting club while you were doing your MBA just as harsh as doing now and you helped a lot shaping the the MBA experience within consulting as a president of the club. So I think more hard work than lack in your case. I think you need both. It's hard to say it's more one or the other, but they tend to go along nicely. Yeah, and so it's very interesting what you said about the region and that takes takes us to the to our second question. What would you say are the main areas of development in the in the Middle East region? I think the local question because I think no matter what I answer, I'm going to leave something else and really it's been a fantastic decade plus right obviously it's not something brand new, but the last thing that we've seen. A appetite transformation and growth of the cost of all the economies right you mentioned in your introduction vision 2030 and obviously this has been a pillar of change and transformation in Saudi Arabia, but across the whole region. Saudi Arabia is not just government public sector transformation. We see the immense change within the private sector and across society and I think and it's really been incredible. Obviously as you mentioned, there's a lot of diversification away from fossil fuels, so really thinking about how can we change economies from the bottom up. We have the privilege of working on a lot of these media challenges and it's driven a lot by government, but hand in hand with the private sector and I don't think it can be you know stated that it's driven more by one or the other because it is this whole society and whole of the economy approach. It's been absolutely amazing the type of work that we've been privileged to participate in right we get asked the biggest media as easy as questions possible right how do we diversify and open up to new sectors or industries. How do we stimulate foreign direct investment in our economies, how do we rethink our labor markets and you know create more opportunities for women for youth for vulnerable populations. And to be able to work on that and contribute and obviously I don't think any you know one consultant or firm can say they heavily shape that agenda but to participate and be part of that dialogue to work and and hand with civil society. And we have a lot of factors where government officials with the private sector you know who have a lot of times take over these initiatives and be the force of change you know it's a wonderful experience and quite the adventure. Because obviously the consulting industry has a lot of responsibility to shape that transformation and as you say you know you're working hand in hand with on the main stakeholders in the region so that's a very very important mission for consulting so in that line what would you say are the two main challenges consulting is facing in the region. Look I think the challenges we're facing and they all stem from the same driver growth the region is growing society are growing they're diversifying they're changing so the challenges we space as consulting firms is one how do you keep up with that pace of change and growth because I think you talk to any firm that it's been incredible you have firms that started with 40 50 people are now reaching a thousand. And you know consulting firm to maintain its culture maintain its quality to maintain its impact it's very challenging to do that with that pace of growth but at the same time you want to meet the market demand you want to be there for your clients you don't want to say no we can't do it obviously we have to sometimes you know and I think that that's always hurts a little bit to turn down work either because you know you think you're not going to have enough impact or be strategic enough but especially when you know you might not have the right capacity or the right profiles of people for that specific. For that specific engagement so for us it's how do we keep up with the growth and then it's talent right and it's how do you find that talent right so it's kind of besides the the same coin because we're always looking for the right people and then consulting. the people business. You know, it's a you're only as good as the people you can recruit and develop and grow and the careers you can give them. So it's how do we attract that talent and retain it because many people come to the region, they want to work in consulting or work in the Middle East, but you know, they might stay for a year, two years, three years. You know, we really want to nurture long-term careers. People who are very invested both in the society that we're working with, but, you know, in developing long-term careers, you know, with us and with any firm right, I think everyone has that same prerogative. So it's really, you know, a bit, again, of a wild ride to see that kind of growth, but then to really try to maintain the right mix of people and culture and talent that can actually support that growth because, you know, they kind of go hand in hand. Absolutely. Yeah, that's very interesting. And you mentioned some of the industries that are on their rise in the region. And I'm assuming that previous experience in those industries help for potential candidates that are applying to consulting and trying to work in the industry, but can you tell us a little bit more about what are the main sectors that are, you know, that are growing right now in the region and just to elaborate a little bit more about that. Of course. I think you'd see that every sector is growing and internally we, we, it's kind of a friendly competition. We're always in which practice area or which vertical or which industry can grow faster. And obviously we have our energy team and they obviously are responding to the market and investing more and more in climate and sustainability and how they can offer, you know, different and varied products to the market. So they are obviously going immensely, I personally focused on the public sector. I'm part of the government public institutions practice. So we're really focusing on how we serve, you know, government institutions better. And we've experienced tremendous growth. So obviously people would policy backgrounds and you know, actually, I would say that perfect mix of it, you have a business background and government background and you can merge that together. It, it's quite nicely in the skills that we're looking for. But we also have all the, say, kind of core industries and sectors that any consulting program would have in any market, right? Our financial services, practices growing very quickly and serving both government and private sector clients, commercial, sorry, consumer goods, retail, tourism. I mean, you can kind of cut it anyway. The growth in the market is not limited in any one area. So what we look for in profiles is both the generalist who can fit in any one of those sectors, but also people who bring experience and who actually have a passion to develop in that space. So I would say all are welcome, you know, generalists, specialists, people have very technical backgrounds. I think it's more how you can articulate that your experience and your interest and your passions fit where the market is going and where the region is going and the type of the work we do. But I would not say it's restricted or if you don't have a very specific background, the doors closed, I think there's many avenues and many paths and it's again our job as I mentioned in the challenge to find that right talent. So we're open to all forms of talent wherever the background might be. No, absolutely. And I think that's very interesting. And you know, whenever we at the Sadek Karriers talk to, you know, our students are interested in working in the Middle East, we talk to them about their genuine interest to add value to the region and, you know, to work there. And I guess that's very important to really identify that, you know, that genuine interest about working in the industry, which obviously in such a growing economy, you know, it's something very interesting to do. But I guess it's something that you talk about doing interviews in depth to really identify that genuine interest. Exactly. You know, and I think, I mean, it doesn't have to be a super specific interest. I want to work only on this topic for, you know, this company or this organization or it's more of a general. And just someone who has that real passion to come to a market that is thriving, that is growing, you know, they really want to experience something different, be part of the regional growth story. And again, that can manifest in many different ways, but I would say it just has to be genuine, right? You can obviously say, "Oh, this is incredible." And, you know, I want to be part of it, but it should really resonate from genuine to place. And then that's what I like to see in candidates that they come in. And, you know, this really aligns with what they want from their career or from their, you know, personal life. And this makes a lot of sense for them. Therefore, it makes a lot of sense for us. And it comes out, right? I think when someone is speaking genuinely about their interest and passions, you see it and you know it. And that always helps in the interview. Case aside, right? Forget the other aspects of the interview. Just knowing that this person wants to be here and be part of that growth story, it's it's always a very powerful thing to see. Yeah, absolutely. So, Hassan, now we are going to share three questions that have been chosen by our audience, by the students. So, you can give us a short and practical answer. So, Hassan is going to share his questions from the students. I try to keep a practical. That might not be too short. That's fine. That's completely fine. Thanks a lot, Hassan, for giving us a lot of clarity and perspective on the landscape there. So, here are a few questions that we have from the student section. And the first one is, what would you recommend our students to do to be well prepared for the consulting interviews in the region? Okay, fair question. I was hoping for something a little more challenging or out of the box, but I think this is probably what's on people's mind, right? And it is a very practical and a very real question. So, it's the same thing you do to prepare for the interviews in any region. Now, with that said, obviously because of the nature of work we do and the fact that we are going for more diverse talent pool, I do look for slightly different things. Obviously, we want the standard. Can you crack a case? Can you show motivation? Do you understand the consulting industry and are you well articulated and structured in your thoughts? It's all these standard things. But I will also look to see, okay, you might have a unique background. You might be coming from governments or you've done international development work and some developing regions. Very interesting, right? So, I do look for that more interesting perspective and of course, I'm trying to connect the dots to see, okay, how can this person fit into the type of project we do across all our industry and verticals? So, maybe we're looking a little bit more broadly than, I would say, your standard consulting interview might be or something you would see in the textbook. But I would say to be really prepared, it's the standard. You just have to make sure you put in the work, you know your story and that's actually maybe goes about saying, but you'll be surprised. If someone struggles to tell their own story and really highlight what makes them unique, what makes them a viable candidate and why we should hire them, that's the first test, right? You have to know your own story. Then of course, the case is important. The case is important. You've got to, you have to crack it. You have to show that you, again, the case is just a bit of example of what you'll be like in real life. If I put you in a project in front of a client, will you be able to approach the problem and structure it and answer and be confident and have a problem solving mindset? As I were for looking for, right? It's a microcosm. It's a small pass, but it kind of gives us insight into the way you think. So be prepared, be ready. That's actually very fair. And I really like about the screening part where you're looking for the Diver-Stallant pool. And I would like to shed, I would like you to shed a little bit more light on the kind of Diver-Stallant pool that you are looking in your firm because there are many students who come from typical backgrounds, typical engineering backgrounds. And then how they can create the differentiation during the screening process. No, fair. Obviously, the, you know, you know, you know, you'll just say a typical consulting profile is a engineering degree and then an MBA. And then, you know, you kind of fit right into something much said. And in the region of even specific schools, people typically go to, I won't name them, but you kind of have that profile on Reefee. And, you know, sometimes I come from very specific socioeconomic and regional and national backgrounds as well. So, you know, but it is also an extremely, extremely diverse pool of individuals that we recruit in the region. And that, I think, you can cut it every single way. Academically, we have people who come from very like myself, social sciences, you know, more politically interested. Maybe have a background in economics. You have all the business degrees, you have all the engineering degrees. And then you have the hard sciences. I've seen a lot of doctors who've actually joined the consulting world here, right? So, it's always kind of interesting to try to ask them for medical advice, you know, during the case. That's two-way, you know, I'm ahead, you know, what do you do with me? I try to get a prescription. Yeah. So, you know, again, I think academic, any background. nationally and culturally we have people coming from every small country. That's actually one of the benefits of the region is because the visa regime and how open society is here. We also probably have the most diverse background of new consultants coming in. Actually, when I joined the market in 2013, it was actually quite interesting transition from the Saudi. Because it felt like it was a Saudi, right? You kind of come from one of the most diverse MBA program to one of the most diverse consulting firms in the world. So it's a very, very cool experience, right? So I think it resonated at all for my educational and my MBA background. But again, it's more what you can bring to the table and show the value proposition than anything else. And I would say the barriers are extremely low in terms of we don't want to restrict it to a specific type of educational background or only specific type of characteristics and the identity features. We really want to grow and the more diverse and the more varied our talent pool is, the better we are and the stronger we can perform in the market. That's completely true without, I mean, without any doubts because I can see that in Isadeh and that was like one of the great area for us to select this on as well. So having said that, let's move one step forward from screening to interview. Based on your experience, what do you think? What are the common mistakes that you see usually during the interviews? I kind of mentioned it before, I'll just make it super clear it's the case. Yeah, I think it's the one the most sensitive parts of the interview where if you do very, very poorly on the case, it often makes it extremely difficult to move on with the hiring process, right? Even if you resonate with the interviewer and you have a strong profile, I would say it just shows either a lack of preparation or it could call in other potential concerns about the way you structure. Your problem are to give you an answer and that makes people very nervous to put you in front of a client. So I would say, and then just to give everyone, it's the simplest one and probably one you hear the most. It's not interesting or creative or a new perspective, but really just try to ensure that you know how to approach a case, don't just be road to mechanical and just repeat what you hear. And more and more, I'm talking to other interviewers, they are being more creative in the way they give the case, right? So it's not the standard, you know, from the case book that you'd experience and they'll play around a bit more because they want to see that dynamic response and they want to see how you adapt to changing and shifting questions. But I would say that, it was a much more common mistake, it's just not being well enough prepared or thinking about how you want to attack the case. So, don't think you can just win yet, it's really a preparation game. That's actually quite insightful and it's really going to help our students here. So the last question that I have is a little bit broader and that is about the work. So what do you like the most about working in the region? It is probably the most exciting regions to work in globally. And I'm saying this obviously biased, but even when we have global partner meetings and we're all discussing the type of work we're doing in different contexts, nothing comes close to the work we're doing here. At least the way we describe it and explain it in the elevator pitch, right? It's national strategies, it's white space, it's big picture thinking, it's defining the future. Sometimes it gets a little crazy and people look at us like, "Really? You got to work on that?" But I think we like to really partner with our clients to push the envelope, embrace the ambition. And I think that's something I've tried to do in the regions, like really accept that the ambition here is extremely high and we need to find a way to support that. Reasonably, rationally, and make sure that we're not pushing our clients into any strategies or projects that won't have a net positive impact on them, on their societies, on their stakeholders and shareholders, but rather embrace that ambition and push it. But it's really exciting. But the flip side of that, and just to kind of be fair to anyone listening, it can be intense, right? When there's a lot of ambition and you're working on big projects, expectations are super high, deadlines are super tight, you're dealing with very senior decision makers who might want to be at 1am to aam 3am on a weekend. Right, so it can be an excitement and I think I mentioned earlier it's an adventure, especially because it is an adventure. But it can be also quite intense and draining sometimes, but ultimately it's worth it. I think when you see what you work on and the satisfaction you get from being a part of that, the trade-offs are there, but ultimately I think the equation is clear in terms of being worth it. But know it before you enter it, right? I think it's a huge draw, but be ready to also roll up your sleeves and work. Yeah. Thanks, Sasa. I think this gives a lot of clarity and it's going to be immensely beneficial for all of us. Thank you. Yeah, no, that sounds very interesting. It made me think, what do you say, just as a final question, are the main challenges for candidates that are less familiar with the region and are going to work there? What would you say are going to be the main two challenges that are going to have to face when working in the region? Look, I think people expect more challenges than they are in terms of being new to the region. I think it is such a diverse and dynamic region that most people are new and most of the people we hire actually are quite new to the region. I think the people who succeed are the ones who have a very quick learning curve who can really pick things up and adapt, which again, most MBA students who have done an international MBA, I think, already can have some of that practice. I think people also are shocked at how much travel there is compared to other regions where maybe you might take the trains and times or work in your home city on projects. We tend to travel a lot. I think we're one of the highest travel offices or regions globally. So people tend to be surprised that you might be on multiple planes a week and maybe you're trying to go to a different city. So you'll go follow sometimes so we tend to often really feel the pain of that travel. But maybe it's worth noting as the region and as the model kind of evolves in the chairs, we're growing our offices in each country. So our footprint actually goes for every single firm. So I can kind of talk broadly about the consulting industry and the region as well. Everyone's growing their presence in Riyadh, in Kuwait, in Bahrain, in Naman, in Qatar, in the UAE. So the whole DCC, where before, people have people traveling into each of these countries and most of them would be based out of Dubai. I think what you see is we're localizing a lot, hiring local talent. Also people who might apply, it'd be default that they've come to Dubai and then be assigned to another project. Now we're seeing a lot more people actually move to Riyadh, move to Doha and start their careers there. So while I did say it's a lot of travel, you might actually see that curve come down because a lot of people are now being based in the cities where we have a lot of projects. And so that consideration is there. So there's always going to be the travel aspect. I think what's interesting and also an option is to be based in any one of the cities that are growing and developing. So it would be kind of increase our footprint and then diversify a little bit. No, that's very interesting and good to know. So Hassan now has final words of wisdom. If you were to give only one piece of career advice to our students, what would it be related to consulting in Middle East or in general? That's a tough one. I would say this, as someone who thought I was going to go into consulting only for a few years and then do something else. I never knew what that something else was. But I always thought I'd do consulting for a few years, get the experience, learn about a few industries and then move on. And now I've probably been consulting for over 12 years. Think a lot about what you want out of your career. Again, consulting can be a great enabler. They can be a career in of itself. But I see a lot of new joiners who really don't know what they want. And so they kind of default to consulting as almost MBA part two. I'll call them, I'll learn, I'll explore. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. But one thing I've done when I've coached a lot of my advisors is try to really have them articulate what you want to do. And try to think very clearly and directly. If you want to work in a tech startup, go work in tech startup. But you don't have to do the consulting grow out to get there. So try to be a little more direct and intentional with what you want to achieve out of your career and what you can get out of it. And I think people tend to be a little more satisfied and let's call it happy with their decision to join consulting. You know, when they are a little bit more clear and articulated about what they want to get out of that experience. And if you come in and say I want to do this for two years, really learn, explore a new market, explore some new industries and then find something else. That's perfectly alright. And I think we accept it as part of our model, right? We obviously have a lot of times a period, a pyramid up an out model or a performing out model. So it's kind of natural. that most people who join become alumni at some point in their career, sometimes after two years, sometimes after ten. But I find the ones who are the happiest, the most satisfied, and get the most out of the experience are the ones who come in with a little bit more clear expectations of what they want from the career. And you know, work towards that. And you know, they tend to be a lot more intentional in the projects they work on, who they work with, you know, the type of industries they go into, and when they leave consulting. And I think if you take control of your career and your journey a little bit more, it can be extremely powerful. Rather than being passive and just going for the ride, you know, hope that helps, you might not be super applicable or practical. But that's something I wish I thought a little bit about more when I first joined consulting. Rather than, you know, just I would say, I would kind of a accidental consultant because I was not going to leave, but here I am. It's fine. I'm happy. And it worked out. But you know, that's wonderful. Ask me ten years ago. I would have never said I'd still be a consultant in ten years. No, that's a wonderful advice. And thank you so much for sharing and being so honest. And I'm sure that our students will be eager to find out more about you. So where can they find you? That's tough on you. Probably Lincoln. I think Lincoln's probably the best. Pretty easy to find me. I'm not the quickest or immediate to the response, but I try to every week or two, you know, go through all my messages and catch up with colleagues from MBA friends, you know, see where they are. So find me on LinkedIn, send me a message. I will get back to you eventually. Thank you. Thank you. That's nice. Hassan, thank you so much for sharing such stimulating insights about the Middle East and about how the consulting industry is supporting the interesting transformation the region is going through. I'm sure our students have a much better understanding now of what the region has to offer, as well as the value they can bring as consultants in such rapidly growing economy. So thank you. Wonderful. It's been my pleasure. Thank you. And it's always great reconnecting Carmen and Harsh. It was a pleasure. Good luck with us at MBA and with the consulting club. Yeah. Thank you so much, cousin. Thank you. I was so lovely to have you. And career beats go so next month. Don't miss our next episode. Looking forward to seeing you in the next episode of career beats. Keep your career beating. Tune in on Spotify, Google podcasts and Apple podcasts for a monthly dose of career stories, advice and trends. [BLANK_AUDIO]