Connor Herson: Just Getting Started

Have you heard about like people that have just like one outfit one clothing, you know set a clothing so they don't have to make like decisions in the morning I'm curious how many pairs of red teas and black pants or black shorts do you own? Well, I own a couple pairs of black pants because all technical outdoor pants are black I only own one red tea or two now, I guess But no, I'm all about the the single pair of clothes I do everything in my inside clothes my outside clothes and I basically have one outfit that I have going for months at a time I mean like right now I'm wearing my pajamas the same as jams I wear every day That I'm not climbing outside the red and black north face is that a preferred choice through the years But do they do they ever send you another color and you're like no, I mean occasionally I do get other colors I'm like no, I mean the north face red is so iconic and is such a and it looks good in photos It always pops against the natural backdrop like it's it's just it's perfect. You don't mess with perfection The north face has you covered discovered gear designed to take you to new heights at the north face calm Alex do you remember the first time you you bumped in to the person family or heard about them in the valley I actually don't remember the first time I met him in the valley because actually I'm pretty sure I met the person family for the first time at a sport crag in Utah when I was young But at that point Jim Herson was already a huge personal hero of mine And I remember his old website I mean, I remember reading all his trip reports about climbing the Salta back when I was aspiring to frequent the Salta and just a Climano cap and so I was always reading Jim the the fathers You know, I mean his website used to be split up into Salta and non-Salta You know, it's like basically a bajillion trip reports about freeing the Salta and then a handful of trip reports about climbing every other route and you so many And I just remember thinking that Jim Herson was the man. I was like what a dude. Yeah The whole family was like a like a package like in a lot of ways like they had our crazy van and Yeah, they're all just like this climbing family that all crushed and You know, it's funny because Jim's trip reports like as his kids got older I feel like that was like reading the dark arts version of a parenting book where it was like this totally different way of like I felt like reading Jim's stuff about raising a family and taking them all climbing kind of changed Like it gave me permission to like kind of raise my kids kind of like in a similar way We're like we're gonna do adventures. You're gonna be young and we're gonna figure it out and it was so cool It gave you permission to epic with your kids Yeah, well Jim Herson can drag him up a 2000 foot face in the snow while they're all complaining about potential frostbite I'm sure I can take my kids out on a little little scramble as well a little hike. Yeah, exactly Yeah, put it in perspective But in 2018 when Connor Herson the youngest son freed the nose as a 15 year old felt like we were getting a glimpse of the future. I mean Climbing the nose. I mean, it's just so different to hear about a kid basically a small kid Freaklime me all cap versus climbing hard. I mean you hear about kids bouldering their age or sport climbing Super hard grades all the time and Having a kid who's physically really gifted as a climber is impressive, but but relatively common But you just never see young kids free climbing big walls in eSemony. It's just so complex Do you think it's like the headspace of that is just not something that most 15 year olds Have a way to get or even possess you know even if even if they had a way to get to it's hard to possess that at 15 Yeah, I mean, I think it's the whole package just learning how to climb on gear is unusual and most people take a long time to learn how to crack climb It's like having the desire. I mean most people don't have interest in big walls when they're little kids It's like having the ability the desire having it all line up being strong enough I mean, it's just a lot to you know only a very select few adults have ever feed climb the nose You know, I've tried and failed and so I got for a 15 year old to be ready at that point is very impressive Yeah, did you feel like you were getting like a glimpse of the future at that moment? Yeah, I mean, I definitely felt like I was Getting a glimpse the thing with with prodigy kids is you just never know quite how it's gonna play out for them Because I mean, I'm now old enough that I've seen a lot of child prodigies kind of come and go and you just never know If they're gonna continue down a path and you're gonna witness greatness or if they're gonna burn out and and move on to other things Like they're gonna get into volleyball and you'd be like well They could have been a great climber, but they chose to play volleyball instead You know, it's like he just never really know and so with Connor I think you know when I heard about him free climbing the nose as a teenager. I was like that's amazing But wait and see and now we've waited and we've seen and it turns out that he is way way better than we ever could He's incredible. I mean, he really is the the future iconic. Yeah, that glimpse of the future is a fully defined vision of our sport in the gaps between pursuing his electrical engineering degree at Stanford Connor's granite wizardry has hit its peak Last summer he was ticking off the hardest tradelines in the world and then he established drifters escape the world's first 515 gear climb He capped off his whole season by becoming the third person to free climb the nose in a day I mean, I think Connor's last year of rock climbing ranks among the most groundbreaking Years of climbing ever. I mean, it's just I mean, he just did so many things that would have been considered news You know 5 10 years ago and he just did him one weekend after another For the whole year while pursuing his degree at Stanford Yeah, you're sort of like well, I mean most climbers, you know I dropped out a college like you're adventuring and climb full time and sort of like most climbers sort of make a choice between doing one thing or the other and Connor is basically just doing all the things at a very high level and it's really quite impressive. Yeah Slash maddening people like that. I know it is kind of super annoying It's like you just hate I always call it like Captain America type people where you're like how are you good at everything? Well still being like so wholesome and like well-mannered and you know emotionally mature and all these things You're like why do some people get all the all the gifts? You're like so annoying Anyway, we got a chance to catch up with Connor and talk about some of his climbs over the last year See how he feels about him see what they mean to him see if he's gonna graduate college Which he's on to his master's Yeah, he's on to his master's already. It's like it's like he clipped the chains on his project And he's like I'm just gonna keep going. There's an extension. Why not just take it all the way to the top of the cliff It's like of course. He's just doing his masters straight out. It's like of course he is I'm Alex Honald. I'm Fitzgull This is climbing gold My name is Connor Herson I'm a climber and a student and I live in the Bay Area, California. Nice. I feel like that really undersells both your climbing and your studenting So I'm getting a master's at Stanford and sending every route in the world on the weekends. Well, oh, I school breaks Yeah, vacations Totally. Yeah, but let's let's go through your last year because I feel like it's been sort of unreported Which is largely because you have a film coming out like what why is everything so under wraps? So there's yeah this whole film series that's coming out through Black Diamond which is mostly the second half of the year last year And then I guess I just did a really bad marketing job for the stuff from the first half of the year Well, so what are the things that you're proud of through the last year that like haven't been publicly announced really? I guess I had so last spring I had this valley season that I did publicly announce it but But you basically climbed up a cap like every weekend all season right? Yeah, I did like I think it was like three different free LCAC routes on like three consecutive weekends Uh, which was like That was it was pretty cool. I'm like two of them were in a day and And so so which were those that's going to get in core zone in day? Yeah, going to get in core zone in a day Actually core zone was like no faults, which I was a pretty sacked about and then um yeah The next weekend I did a premier in two days. Yeah, I mean, that's a pretty solid. I mean for some people That's their whole you 70 season and that's for you three weekends as breaks from school Yeah, I mean to be fair that was the highlight of the you somebody season But yeah, well, yeah, I mean I should hope that's the highlight of you somebody season if you free all cap three weekends at a row It was just so fun to do such a variety of climbing because I mean even up to those leading up to those three weekends I think I The two weekends before I'd done like what like uh, their westie face spano frontier fallert time And so it was just like so many different pitches and like so much different climbing and that was just so fun Like just the sheer amount of on-sighting and like new terrain uh is Was definitely higher volume than anything I'd been on before which was a pretty special. Are you gonna be I mean Are you out of routes in you 70 now? Absolutely not I mean, well how many things do you have left like what are you gonna do this season? So I've got I've got a project on leading tower that I've kind of been working away at um and So I'm definitely like that's Uh, not very it's it's definitely a long term, but it's aspirational. Is this for is the first pitch? Uh, yeah, it's it's It's really just the first pitch that I'm projecting um I'm I think when I'm feeling like I could send it I'll probably just like stash a haul back at the base and then like whatever day that I do it just keep going The layer is psyched Or call your dad like oh my dad take some time off work come to the valley quick. Oh, he's retired now. Oh cool Perfect so then he can come up any time exactly. Oh, it's great So other than the lean tower project though like do you have you know do you have side projects? It's like he you You've basically tapped out the valley and a couple years of school. I think you're oversteady. I still have a lot of LCAP roots that I haven't really touched. The one that I really wanted to try for a really long time is Magic Mushroom. I've never been on it. It just looks so incredible. And some of the ones on the right side as well, I've never been on. That should take you two or three more weekends, I suppose. But let's hear the rest of your year. Other than you 70, so you had a banner year in you 70 in the spring. Then what are all the other big climbs that you did through the year that haven't really been reported? Yeah. So I just started reporting on this thing I didn't squamish, which was kind of my main objective for the summer. And it was this trad pitch that I did. That's Drifters Escape. Yeah. Was it an existing project or an existing. Yeah. An existing pitch of an A-Drew. And I think people kind of knew about it as a project, as a potential free project. But I don't think anyone had been trying it, like actively when I started trying it. How did you find out about it? I think the first I heard about it was from my friend Ethan Savo, who I think he heard about it from a slideshow. Yeah. He just mentioned to me like, "Oh, Clarnish, you should look into the Drifters Escape project." And I was asking around and eventually it became clear what it was. And like as soon as I knew what the pitch was, you can't really look at the Chief without seeing it. It's really quite an obvious panel once you know where it is. Yeah, where is it on the Chief? It's just to the left of University Wall. Okay. It's below where that belly good ledge is. Yeah. But still pretty high up on that panel. It's just like probably the cleanest panel if you're looking from town, kind of bone-white granite, slightly overhanging. And it's just split by this crack system that goes straight up it. And so describe the pitch, like how does Drifters Escape break down? We'll be back with more after the break. Alex is granola, what you eat for breakfast, snack or topping. Which one is it? It's more of what I eat for breakfast. Basically like cereal in the morning, add a bunch of wholesome fixins and do some almond coconut milk type stuff. Actually, that's what I have for breakfast this morning. Yeah. I eat for breakfast and I definitely see our kids make a bowl of yogurt and granola after school, which is like a lifesaver because the teeter eldest is like, has the hollow legs from teenage years. Just like, I'm always hungry. Yeah. Everyone knows Kodiak for their pancakes, but they've recently launched a line of granola. It comes in five flavors, including chocolate. It's made with 100% whole grains, 16 plus grams of protein and quality ingredients like coconut oil to make you feel fuller for longer. Keep your wild ones going with a protein packed breakfast that will keep them fueled for big days. Find Kodiak products in your local grocery store. They're the ones with a bear on the box. Learn more at Kodiakkakes.com. Alex, do you like cooking? I hate cooking. I hate shopping. I hate going to the grocery store. I would just opt out of all of it if I could. Enter factor meals. Yeah, exactly. Enter factor. Factors in a meal delivery service that specializes in providing fresh, fully prepared meals designed by dietitians and cooked by chefs. It's designed for people like me who just can't be bothered to do all the effort or how to make good food. But people who want to eat healthy without the time commitment of actual meal prep. Realistic I just never put the effort in. And that's where factor helps. Yeah. Factors has 100 rotating weekly meals, including globally inspired flavors like Mediterranean and Asian cuisine. So there's always something new to look forward to. And they just added ready to eat salads, which is nice. To factor meals.com/climinggold50off and use the code Climinggold50off to get 50% off your first box and free daily greens per box with new subscription only while supplies last. See the website for more details. And so describe the pitch. Like how does a drifted escape breakdown? Yes. So drifted escape. It starts out that actually has two bolts to kind of get off the ledge. And there's this kind of an intro bolder that gets you like around the corner onto this panel that you see from town. And that's what kind of where the crack feature starts. And then it's kind of this insecure live-backing maybe like mid five, 13 level for a little bit. And it's not the hardest, but it's really easy to be overly tense on it. And so you climb through that. You get to a pretty good rest. You can kind of perch on this heel hook. I could take my hands off for a second, but not for too long. And then after that is kind of where the meat of the route starts. So you have this kind of really hard bolt-read crux that revolves actually around a pogo. Is that the photo? There's like a photo everywhere that where you're kind of flying. I was like, oh, is that a rare like a vert granite pogo? Like how often do you do that? It was crazy. And the fact that like the left hand, you're wrong when you're doing the pogo is this like crazy pinch hold between two seams. And it's the most perfect hold on granite that I've ever touched. I think that was what really drew me in about the pitch was its quality. Is in both the rock quality and just how interesting the movement was. It was really quite special. So how hard's the crux and then how does it continue from there? So that crux boulders probably about V11 or so. And then from there you kind of get you get two good finger locks, but there's not really any feet. So you can rest for a little bit, but it's very much on your arms. And this kind of this cool sequence where you're you're alternating between these gas stones and side pulls and that's like maybe mid five thirteen and that gets you to this place where you can stop place gear, maybe chalk up your hands like once each, but it's not really a rest. And then you go into another boulder, which is probably also V11. And this boulder is maybe less physical than the first boulder, but it's way more like particular and technical, which is on the one hand, it's nice that it's less physical on the other hand, it's very specific and it's not exactly what you want at the end of the pitch. But anyway, you climb this boulder and then you kind of get onto the sloping ledge and you mantle over the ledge and there's the anchor. And so it's a cool like ledge to ledge pitch. And how long? It's about 20 meters or so. Maybe 25. Actually, probably close to 25. Do you know, I'm like, what a what a journey. And so how long to take for you to climb that? So I started trying it in summer of 2024 and I probably put in about a dozen sessions, maybe a little more than that. And that season, I've definitely made a lot of progress. I worked out all the sections. I started giving lead attempts and kind of my best attempt was falling at the pogo move and two hanging the route, which I was pretty psyched about, but it wasn't really that close to sending. And then this year it actually came together more quickly than I expected. I think I did it in about eight sessions or so this year when I came back. So all told it was like 20 something sessions on the route. What do you think the difference was this year? Do you just feel stronger on it or you'd learned all the techniques or you had better conditions or I definitely felt stronger this year. I actually did some board climbing, which is kind of unusual for me in the in the spring. And I think just having that volume of climbing in use, somebody on granite made me just feel so much more comfortable, especially on the bottom section where it is a little bit insecure. I also just learned a few intricacies about the corrects, bolders that made them a little bit higher percentage. And I think that also made a pretty big difference. Nice. Well, congratulations. Thanks. So what other climbs are we missing from the season? So I mean, Drift your escape just got reported, but then you've also been doing every other hard track pitch in the world. Yes. So from Drift your escape, I went back home from Squamish and had maybe two days at home and then I actually flew to Norway and had a really fun trip there with pretty all time crew. I was with Babzi and Jakapoe and Harlow and Sean Rabbit too. And it was quite the crew and we climbed a profile wall for about two weeks and then I spent some time in Flattinger as well. And at profile wall, I was able to climb a recovery drink and crown right out. Which of the two famous 14 plus like mega king line track pitches? Yeah. They're really cool pitches. They've pretty wild. Yeah. And I was really fun trip. We can get into it. But just like to kind of summarize after that, I went. I kind of had a bit of a valesies in for a bit and that was when I was able to climb triple direct, which it was kind of a long time thing for me. And then free the nose in a day afterwards. And then I kind of started trying this leaning tower route and I actually ended up doing it from a wanting ledge to the top, which so it's I guess it's kind of as much of a route as what like, for nightmarers in a sense. And that it's its own free route from a wanting ledge to the top, which is probably in the 14 minus range. And it's really, really good at the correct pitches. This beautiful, head wall crack that's super varied in this movement. It's really an amazing position. And yeah, and from there, I went to France, actually, I went to Annot with a yoke of a larger. And we were climbing on one voyage. It was cool. We sent it on back to back days. I mean, you know, you've been somewhere in Singapore, but basically in the last year, you've climbed, you know, basically all the hardest tread pitches in the world. I mean, virtually. And perhaps established the hardest tread climb in the world, you know, it was like time will tell with grades and everything. But basically, my point being that, you know, it seems like your level is very, very high right now. I mean, what do you do with that? Like, where do you go? So exciting. It's just kind of onto the next, I think. I'm definitely like, kind of always just looking for climbs like, I get me excited. And we're not trying to put like, oh, I'm only a tread climber. I mean, my current project, it is on a big wall, but it's really a sport pitch. and I'm progiting it as a sport pitch. If there's a climb that I get super psych on, it's like a Boulder problem or something, I'm like really open to that. And so I think, yeah, I mean, going into this year, I'm definitely really excited to try to work on, particularly in my Bouldering ability, 'cause that's always been a weakness of mine in my power level. And just trying to continue to just find roots that inspire me because I think that is really, really important, where I've definitely been to areas where I'm less inspired and it shows up not only in terms of like results, but also in terms of like my experience at those areas. And speaking of goals for the year and stuff, last year when you announced that you repeated Mason's crack in the desert, stranger than fiction, Yakupo commented on it that you were running out of roots to try, 'cause you basically done all the things. And he's not wrong. I mean, particularly with everything that you've climbed since then, I don't know, do you have a list of projects somewhere? Do you have a notebook with all these hard, how do you even know which roots are left? Where do you have to go? - There's plenty left. - I mean, are there, I mean, I can think of a couple, maybe. - I can think of some, I mean, one that comes to mind speaking of Yakupo is his root tribe, which he never graded. And everyone I've heard who he's tried has said the Boulder is really, really hard. I also do know of a few kind of single-pitch projects that people have either tried or speculated about. And it is one of the cool things about having this news come out and all these videos come out is that anytime I kind of publish about their tradition, I get a few messages from people about like, hey Connor, you should try this crack here. And sometimes it doesn't look the best and sometimes they look incredible. And I kind of like make a mental note, like, okay, I need to make it out there at some point. - It's funny to say that, you know, I'm friends with Jonathan Seeris, who lives in town here, climb with him a lot. And Jonathan has basically climbed every root 514 and over in the Western US basically. But it's crazy because he's got this running list of like, oh, there's a rumored potential project in the mountains in Montana. There's like this one big rock in the middle of the desert and somewhere that has a potential 9a. So he basically is always going to the most random places to climb like random hard things. And you know, part of me is like, oh, that's so cool that he's so strong is to climb all these things. And part of me is like, I got it kind of sucks. He's just constantly roaming to like the middle of nowhere to find like that one rock that somebody said he might be able to bolt the underside of to find out. So I feel like you're running into that type of terrain where you're kind of like, oh, I heard a rumor about this one crack that's really thin. I bet it's gonna hurt the shit out of my fingertips. Like, let's go check it out. - I mean, I think it'd be really fun though to like just kind of gone that sort of adventure, adventuresome kind of exploratory trip. Maybe somewhere a little bit off the beaten path. I think even just climbing aside is just a cool experience to go there. And I think I do know enough, I still have plenty of projects to I established areas remaining that like I can keep a good balance of like going on a few kind of exploratory trips that may or may not turn into something cool and then go to places that I know are gonna have really good objectives for me. And if we're talking about climbing in general, there is a whole world of bouldering that I've barely scratched the surface too that in terms of objectives I could be traveling to climb at. And actually speaking of bouldering, I think I've heard Carlos Verrissi as long as he thinks the future of hard track climbing is actually in Rocklands. Just because there's so many like really big, I mean, effectively big boulders, but better like way bigger than a high-hewet boulder. And maybe they'll have like a horizontal halfway up or like a few horizontals or places for gear. - It's like safe, great climbing. - Yeah, exactly. - Where the gear is actually good. - Yeah. - But that's interesting. Like, huh, you have been to Rocklands yet? - Never been, no. It was actually interesting. My trip to Norway this year was my first time climbing outside of the US/Canada. - Oh wow, you have so much to do. - I have so much to do. That's what I'm saying. - Yeah, yeah. - So I mean, speaking of how much you have to do, how do you balance school with climbing? I mean, like when do you finish school and what happens when you finish school? Are you just going to climb full time? - I don't, I haven't quite yet decided what plans are when I graduate. - Well, where are you in school right now? Like how far along? - So right now I'm a senior, but I've started working on my master's program. - Oh wow. - So I'm kind of taking classes towards both degrees at the same time. - So in theory, do you graduate with your undergrad at the end of this, you know, in the end of the spring or whatever? - So yeah, in theory I would finish my undergrad, yeah, in June, and then my master's the following June. - Oh, so you only have a year and a half more school total in theory. - In theory, yeah. - Unless you do your doctorate. - Yeah, I'm right now, I don't see it. - And why pursue a master's when you're climbing all the hardest routes in the world and just totally crushing? Why not just go on the road and freaking send the car? - I mean, climbing school, but there's more to life. Like there's more things to see. And I think what's really cool about school is I'm someone besides a climber when I'm in class, right? And I can really just look at, I'm really interested by the classes. I mean, honestly, the first reason why I ended up doing this master's was because I'd kind of finished all my engineering requirements for my undergrad. And they were just more classes I wanted to take that seemed really interesting. Particularly actually this current quarter, there were like a few classes where I was, I would not have taken them, I had just done my undergrad, and I'm really glad I took them, they're really interesting. - I mean, yeah, obviously you're really interested in the academics, you're interested in learning, you're climbing at the highest level. Like how does that fit into a big picture? Like, what do you wanna do with yourself? Or can you answer that? - Ah, I didn't realize I was getting the heavy-headed questions this, instead of me, that out. - Well, you know, sometimes you just, sometimes you go deep, you know? - I think I definitely want some balance 'cause the last few years what I've done is I've taken fall off from school and then just climbed. So I climbed through the summer, which is summer break, then I climbed through fall and kind of winter spring, I go back to school. And I've done that for the past two years. And what I've found with that is, you know, when I get towards the end of exam season, say it in June, I'm definitely feeling kind of ready to step back and focus on climbing a little bit. But also when it comes to like, once it gets December, to December, and it's a little cold and dark in the valley. And I've been kind of traveling and on the road for six, seven months at this point. I'm ready for a change of pace. And like when I go to school in January, I'm like suddenly all the classes are so interesting, even the ones that don't seem like they should be. And so I think what that shows is that, I don't think I'd be happy if I was just climbing if I was like my only thing. I'm not sure what I want that other thing to look like yet, but I definitely want to kind of keep a multifaceted approach to life. And I think it also benefits the climbing to have this time or salmon school now. I'm not trying to actively send all my hardest climbs right now. I'm, you know, focusing on classes, focusing on training in the gym, trying to up my bouldering level, as I mentioned earlier. And then on weekends, I've been climbing on the leaning tower a little bit, but it's more low pressure, low stakes, just kind of looking towards like a long-term project. And so I think having that sort of time where I can take a step back is really beneficial. Yeah, I mean, it makes sense to have balance like that in the big picture, but you know, it's like, can you do that? Because even that is like a nice balance while you're in school, but then it's like once you finish school, you're kind of like, ah, like what do you find? That type of like work life balance is a hard thing to-- And so I don't know how I'll be able to do it forever, but I mean, given that I can do it now, I'm definitely going to take advantage of that. Totally. Is it hard to imagine supporting yourself as a professional climber? No, I think I could make it work, especially because one of the cool things about spending these larger blocks traveling and climbing is I've been able to kind of see these like dirt-bride communities and kind of be a little, a small part of them. And it's really open rise to being able to, you know, travel, do all the climbing I want, go to all the places I want, and really not spend that much money. So I think it's definitely a path I could take. And I'm well aware of that. Yeah, though the fold, though when you have a master's in engineering from Stanford, it's like hard to be too dirt-backed, because you can just work remotely for some company and like, you know, just work on a computer and make more than any kind of climbing dirt-back lifestyle. Yeah, well, I definitely want to keep that option open. Yeah, that seems like a very, a really solid option to keep open. Yeah, yeah, definitely just having that. And you know, especially with something like climbing full-time, whether you're dirt-backed, whether you're a pro climber, whatever that is, it's always, I mean, it's never guaranteed, right? I could, you know, go to the gym today and get some sort of career-ending injury. I don't know. I'm spit-balling here, right? And so it's nice to have just some sort of like backup or some sort of option where not only do I not have to like, perform at the highest level to support myself, but I also don't even have to climb if I don't want to. And just keeping that option open, even though, like, I suspect I'll always want to climb, just having the option of not relying on it, I think makes climbing just so much more fun and so much less pressure. What are some of your earliest memories of you, Samudy? I mean, your family's been going there your whole life. I mean, your dad was such a prolific you, Samudy, climber. Like, what are your first memories, Samudy Valley? (triumphant music) We'll be back with more after the break. (triumphant music) Alex, I feel like I go to the store and there are so many different types of bars available now. Why do you go with David Bars? Honestly, I just think it's a, it's a wholesome snack. It's a high-end protein, low-end sugar. I mean, I think for what it is, it's a great recovery snack. Yeah, break down the macros for me. Like, what's in one of these bars? - The David's Gold Line has 28 grams of protein, which is the most you can find in any bar out there. 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Go try them out. What are some of your earliest memories of eSemite? I mean, your dad was such a prolific eSemite climber. Like, what are your first memories from the Valley? - I think my earliest memories are actually of eSemite National Park, are actually from Tualamni. My first multi-pitch was her Maffetite flake on Stately Puzzledown. And my second multi-pitch was Holdless Horror. And that happened really early memory of climate cathedral peak. I snaked like rural arches in the Valley. And I think those are definitely my earliest, really strong memories of climbing. - Yeah, I mean, what did a typical weekend in eSemite look like with your family once you were teen, once you were really climbing? I mean, you freed the nose when you were 14, right? - 15, yeah. I mean, I think leading up to the nose, I was never really trying to kind of push myself on a Valley granite in that style of climbing. I was really excited to kind of longer and longer days, do more climbs, but I was pretty much following everything, just French fring whenever I felt like I would pull through. And I think that was really important because it kind of let me get this sort of love for the climbing itself with no pressure of sending anything. Who cares if 12-year-old me could top rope with a rostrum cleaner, not, right? Like, no one really cares. And so I think that allowed me to just get a ton of volume and experience so that once I did start trying the nose, I was able to have a lot of success like that. And then the nose was kind of a turning point where after that, then I was really wanting to push myself and try to free these roots, try to actually be leading them, not just following them, try to free as much as possible or a full thing. And so that that was kind of, in my mind, where I kind of that turning point. - Yeah, was that your first serious, hard-reaching the Valley? Was that the first route that you cared about sending in the Valley? - I'd say so. I think prior to that, my hardest lead in the Valley that I had sent, I believe was Serenity Crack. - So you went from 10-D to 14-A? Is that a. - Well, to be fair, I'd been sport climbing and competing. - And yeah, you were climbing super high level inside, yeah, of course. - And so it was just a matter of kind of applying that sort of like drive and try hard and like desire for performance, just applying that to you, Semite. - So can you talk me through what that weekend actually looks like though, because your family has that beater van, your dad has a real job, you guys drive up for just weekends? I mean, what does it actually look like? Give me the nitty gritty, like what's a person family weekend? - That's a typical family weekend that I growing up. Well, it would be Friday night after school and my dad can't really handle traffic and to be fair, on his defense Bay Area traffic on any afternoon is pretty heinous. So we would generally leave quite late, maybe around 8 p.m. after traffic. My sister and I were just kind of sleeping in the back and my dad were drive. And so he gets no sleep all weekend. That's a given. And then Saturday and Sunday, we would climb something, you know, maybe one day, maybe both days. And most of those climbs would be, yeah, like I said, just kind of very long days. - Like 20 pitch routes? - Yeah, sometimes there'd be a bit of an epics, sometimes we'd get back to the car quietly. And if it's a Sunday and you have back to the car late, he'll drive through the night to be back Monday morning. You know, we got the sweet end of it. We just got sleep in the back of the car the whole time or out of the van. He was the one who would probably get eight hours of sleep between Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights. - Would your mom typically come or no? - She came some of the time, some of the time she didn't. She'd go on sport climbing trips with us though. So we did lots of days at, for instance, jailhouse with her. Or we would do trips in the summer to say, maple canyon or Tensley. I think that actually might have been where I first met you. I was like, I love it and I'm made full. - Yeah, I think I remember meeting your mom in the pipe dream cave. - I think, yeah, yeah, 'cause I remember, it was my first 13A I did. - Oh yeah. - And you were making fun of me for never using my feet. - Oh, well, you know, you have learned how to use your feet. So I'll take that back. - Thanks. - You know, but I'm like, I'm so flabbergasted, but these weekends, it just like, by the level, and just the commitment, I mean, your dad, like, dude, there's so much effort. - And it's funny now that I'm doing the drive myself now, I can like, now I'm kind of getting an appreciation for these nights when, you know, growing up, I all I know is like, growing on the back and just pass out. But now that I'm actually like doing the drive myself, it's a lot, and especially the lack of sleep and all that. It's, yeah, it's not easy. - What stands out for you from all those weekends, commuting up to the valley? I mean, were you ever scared on the roots? Like, did they feel like big outings for you at the time? Or was it all a grand adventure? - Oh, it was absolutely a mix. I think it would be a grand adventure until it gets dark and I get cold and I get hungry and then it's less of a grand adventure and it's more, feels more rugged. A lot of it was type two fun for sure, but still fun in hindsight. - I mean, were there weekends where you're like, "I don't want to go to you, Semidi, "I want to stay home and play soccer with my friends." And-- - No, I mean, I think, you know, it's funny. Like, we wouldn't go every single weekend. It would probably be a few weekends a season or a year. - 'Cause otherwise your dad would have died. - I know. - Yeah. Exactly otherwise, yeah, I don't know how he would have managed. But like most weekends would be, you know, pretty mellow. Maybe a climb into gym, maybe, yeah, hang out with friends, go on playdates or whatever it is say, did at those ages. Some weekends would be Valley weekends. And I definitely remember like, especially in the early middle school years, a few outings that went quite late into the night. I remember first time in West Face of El Cap, I think we didn't get back to the car until like midnight or one, yeah, like first time at Stixelife, it was similar. - To the Stixelife. Taking a kid up the Stixelife, that's so brutal. - Well, so it was better than that. So my dad took me, I think I was 12 at the time. And then a friend, actually Tim King, he was a team kid at the time, about 16, had never climbed anything in the Valley. - And your dad took him up the Stixelife? - I think the longest walk he'd gone on was half a mile. And he took both of us up the Stixelife. - Dude, how do you guys do? Did you get just completely wrecked? - Oh, we got wrecked, but we made it up. - Yeah, wow. - I think we topped out around sunset and got back to the car, I don't even know what time. - Super late, 'cause the descent's kinda full on. - It's funny, I went back and climbed Stixelife, I think a little over two years ago with my sister. And that descent is pretty full on. - I just did it again last season. I think when you nail it, it's kinda like a chill. When you just go loop back around, right back to the, to the trail, but it's like hard and nail it. - Well, but also for like a sixth grader too. - Yeah, yeah, no, totally. - In the best. - In the best. - Child is best up. Yeah, so I mean, what are you telling Tim in the middle of the narrows or whatever? Like when you guys are wedging some squeeze chimney, like squirm your way up or you're like, "Don't worry, Tim, we do this every weekend. We'll be okay." - Well, I think actually having him there was really fun because we were like, we were just having the blast the entire time. Like, that one at least until the descent was actually fully type one fun. It was just like a cool day. And yeah, obviously we were both getting worked in the narrows for instance, but I think just like having someone else that was really fun. And a lot of these climbs that I did, I would do with someone else. You know, maybe another kid around my age or a little bit older or with my sister or something. And yeah, definitely having that like other kid that was really fun. - I mean, speaking of other kids, what do you tell kids at home when you go back, after a weekend like that? I mean, because for a kid to climb the Stek South has got to be this tremendous adventure. It's like this giant peak. I mean, the Sentinel is such an imposing formation. It's like, you've got to feel pretty proud of yourself. I mean, I remember the first time I climbed it, you know, I was an adult, but my partner and I were like, we're the man, you know? Like, you know, it's like obviously you feel, you know, pretty proud of what you've done and everything. It's like when you go back to school until your friends, like, oh, I did the craziest thing this weekend. Like how do you reconcile the two halves of your life like that? - Nowadays I almost prefer that like, you know, my peers are professors at school that don't know as much so I can kind of separate those lives. I think back then though, I was so psyched, I would be like, you know, I would, you know, say climb the East Butchers and I'd be like, I did all cap. - Well, I think that's pretty fair for a kid. You're like, dude, I climbed this giant wall, it's insane. - Yeah, and so it was, yeah, I was excited about it, but I also kind of realized that like, you know, something like even something like the Sentinel, which is a really cool formation. Most people don't know what it is, right? And most people don't care. And so it's a cool reality check too. And how is it showing up back in school like covered in cousin scrapes and bruises who're just being like totally haggard, like totally worked? Nobody ever, you know, no one called CPS. So I guess it was, it was fine. I guess either the bruises were at that batter, no one noticed, what are the two? - I mean, it's funny I'm asking all these questions like cause I'm sort of thinking about our kids now too, you know, I'm sort of like, we're going to font for a family trip and next week. So basically it'll be two little girls running around the forest for a month, just like getting amongst it. But it's just interesting because it's like so many parents try to get their kid into climbing and then their kids just aren't really into it. And it's interesting that your parents, I don't know if they tried really hard or if they just, you know what I mean? Like, do you think it's anything they did? Or do you, I think it was because they didn't try. - Well, is it not trying because if your dad's driving to the valley and dragging you up, these like pretty big and sort of imposing roots? Like yeah, explain that. What do you mean by not trying? - Well, they never really forced us to climb, right? I mean, it was always stuff we wanted to do. And so I think that was really key. And especially climbing in the gym, when we were really young, they would take us to the gym because they wanted to climb, right? But they wouldn't make us climb, they would say like, oh yeah, you can read, you can play with your toys, you can do whatever you want, right? And for quite a few years, I think until I was around eight in the gym, I almost never climbed. And I think, you know, especially with the outdoor objective, so it would be, you know, because they're these, you know, pretty inspiring walls, they'd be things we wanted to do. Because it looks cool, because it is like the stuff of fantasy, really. - And also because it wasn't like every single week, and it was, you know, a few a year. And so it was like this kind of special occasion. And I think, yes, specifically, because they didn't really force climbing onto us, we both kind of took it up as our own thing that we wanted to do. I have like this very vivid memory. I don't even know if it happened. Of a day in the gym, or like, some way I was like, I want to climb this 10 A, and I went and did it. And it was like, you know, the first five 10 A, I've tried. And, you know, again, top of a finger or whatnot. And at least in my mind, I kind of see that day. I was like, oh, switch flipped. I like wanted to climb now. But because they kind of let us take up climbing as our own pursuit, I think that's really been beneficial in the long term, right? Today, when I'm planning an objective, obviously it's not something that my parents want me to do or anything, right? It's just something that I'm excited about. And like along the way, there was no time where I was like, oh, now I have to take control of my own climbing. And I always kind of like, yes, this is what I want to do. And it did, you know, for the first few years, just on account of my parents actually knowing what climbs are what, you know, they would kind of suggest the areas. They would say like, oh, yeah, let's go to Maple Canyon. I'd never heard of it, but it seems cool. And, you know, as I learned more about climbing in the different places to climb in the different climbs, that could be done, then it kind of became more of a mix of like, oh, sometimes I would choose the objective, sometimes my parents would. How often do you talk to your parents about your current climbing objectives now? I mean, because in a lot of ways, like your take list over the last year is like your dad's ultimate life fantasy. You know, it's like, I mean, your dad worked so long on free climbing all-cap and speed climbing all-cap and it's like, you're basically able to climb all the things now that your dad always aspired to. I mean, he must be so psyched, like living vicariously through all the things that you're able to climb. It's cool because he's so like supportive, too, where he'll be like, anytime I need to play, he'll be psyched. Like you're joking earlier about like, you know, on the leading tower that you need to calm up and he'll drive right up to the valley. That's assuming that he's not already there belaying me on pitch one, which he has. He's done like two or three weekends this week, this like in the last month. Yeah, I suppose if he's retired, I mean, what nicer way to spend time with family, you know what I mean? If you're like, oh, my son needs support on a thing, I'm gonna go belay. It's like, I mean, what a great way to like spend quality time with a kid. Yeah, and it's great for me, too. I gotta play and I get to spend time with my dad, too. But so do you talk about objectives with them and stuff? Like spitball ideas and come up with grand plans and all the rest? Absolutely. And actually, you know, I just kind of jerked with my mom. Part of the reason I did drift as a scape was because of my mom because I guess this was the end. This was 2023. I'd just finished freshman year. And it was like a pretty intense exam season. And I was like pretty burnt out from school and I hadn't really thought about the summer 'cause I was so stressed at school. And as the summer started, I was kinda like, I don't really know where I wanna go. And then I was like, let's go to Squalmish. Like here, I'll make the plans, we'll drive up together. Like we'll go spend a few weeks in Squalmish and then my dad flew out and joined us as well. And then after a few weeks, both my parents flew home and I stayed there. In your family van, in the-- In the Subaru. Oh yeah, I was like, wow, that van made it to forget Squalmish. And that van made it to Maple. Wow, yeah. That was a decade ago, but still. Yeah, totally. I think I was so scrappy. (laughs) My dad's gonna have some worries for you after this episode is-- I can't wait, I can't wait. Yeah, but yeah, she kind of made that trip happen. And then once my parents left, I was kind of there. I met a bunch of people in Squalmish, made plans to return the next summer. And when I returned the next summer is when I learned about triifters and started trying it. And so, yeah, it's definitely like a lot of the trips, a lot of the objectives. I really kind of talked through with my parents, especially bouncing ideas back and forth. Particularly a lot of the valley objectives I really talked through with my dad. And even just tactics within an objective where when I was last fall on, say, to do the nose in a day, we were definitely kind of like, it was definitely like kind of a two-way communication where we were just kind of going back and forth on tactics. And like, when's the best time to start? We actually, so let's talk about that because when you freed the nose when you were 15, yeah, you were a child. And then you freed it again this year in a day and you're quite a bit taller, quite a bit bigger, obviously way stronger and like more mass. You know, how different was it to climb that pitch again and totally different style? - It was so different. And actually when I started trying the nose again, I had two days repiling into changing corners and just working that. And I had to fully relearn the pitch as if I had never been on it before. And I don't think I did two moves the same as what I was 15. Like I could look at the pin scars and the footholds and say like, oh yeah, that's how I did it before but I couldn't fit into those positions. I couldn't pull on those pin scars. But now I kind of have a slightly different method where I guess before what I did is I would have both my hands in the pin scars. I'd kind of have my right foot in the left corner, left foot in the right corner and be like hips coming my right foot. I guess the right side of it and moving up that way. But when I went back this past fall, what I was doing is I'd have my right hand in the pin scar. My left hand would be like on the right kind of gas stoning. I'd have like a left hip scum in the other side of the corner and then my right foot would kind of be out on the right face on it. - So like facing the other way, basically? - Yeah, facing the other way. - You basically just flipped around the other way, now that you're big. - Yeah. - It was a fully different pitch. And then like the section that kind of used to be the crux for me was like totally replicable every single track this year. But then there was like a red point crux which I had definitely fallen at before, but it was pretty manageable. And that was like pretty nails this time around, at least until I found a little bit of a microbeater that made it better. But. - Was it frustrating to come back to something that you know you had done and that you could do and then be like, oh, I have to relearn it? I mean, because we've talked to some other athletes who struggle with that kind of stuff and like body wildly changes. I mean, particularly kids that are very successful with skids and then they go through puberty, they get big. I mean, like Kylite and her, you know, I spoke to us before about the challenges that he faced. I mean, his was particularly dramatic 'cause he grew like a foot and a half and gained like, I don't even know how much but he's like so much bigger than he was as a kid. But, you know, and you didn't quite undergo that kind of transformation. But, you know, I mean, was that a challenge for you at all? - I think a little bit, it was something that was on my mind. And it's funny because, you know, I was so young when I did and it was made, you know, pretty big splash in the media. I would oftentimes kind of joke like, I peaked at 15, and, and, I would definitely, there was definitely a little bit of this little insecurity behind those jokes, but not much, of course. So returning to the pitch this year, I was definitely like, "That's going to suck if I can't do it." And so I really felt a bit of pressure, particularly on Triple Direct because that was the first time I returned to the pitch. It actually took a lot of work to do Triple Direct. I was really scrappy on changing corners. On the sun push, I think it took quite a few attempts, probably like five or six attempts at least. Through one day or over two days? I think over two, because we got there pretty early on the second day and then we talked out on three days. Oh yeah, okay. So you just stayed at Camp Sex and worked that pitch for another day? Yeah, exactly. And it was pretty scrappy and even when I did it, it didn't feel that easy, but then after two rest days, I came up on the nose and first try it felt by far the easiest the pitch ever had. And the part of that was because I kind of proved to myself like, "Yeah, I can still do the pitch. It's okay. I didn't pick up 15." Yeah, you broke through the mental. You were like, "Have overcome that." And then, yeah, coming back to the pitch, it felt so much easier. And I think that's something that's particularly tricky with valley climbing because the grant is so technical and so weird. Like if you're not fully there mentally and you have these sort of barriers, it can get a lot harder really fast. I mean, talk about that. I've never really thought about that. If you're not trusting a foothold or a handhold, it's so much more likely to slip. You're so much more likely to over grip and power down here. And if you don't have that confidence, you're less likely to trust. And so I think even climbing while in valley granite is something that I think physically and mentally, I need to learn. And every single season, no matter how well last valley season went, the first few weekends are always kind of a thrashing. Dude, you don't have to tell me about that. Now that I'm there so much, I mean, you got to see probably my worst thrashing to date when I freaking decked off whatever the, what was that little route that? Oh, a new leaf. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, where I freaking slipped at the first bolt and basically like, I think I caught the rope or maybe the second bolt, but I basically like fell off the bottom of the thing that shouldn't have been really easy. Did I catch the rope? I hit the ledge. I don't even remember, but I like that. Maybe cut one of my fingers or something. I think it was a rope burn. Yeah, like rope burn myself. It was terrible. It was like super embarrassing because it's easy to range. It should be all chill, but it's like day one in the valley for me. I haven't been there in a year and it all feels kind of slick and kind of weird. And I just like fell off and I was just like, oh man, just so, so bad, especially for, I mean, for me, it's been a tough adjustment because, you know, I used to spend like what, three or four months a year there at least. And now it's like with kids, I visit for like maybe a week, once a year, maybe, you know, it's just not enough to feel current. It's like I just do not have that trust. And it's always the first few days like will be for, I mean, even take this year, for instance, last year I had my best year of valley climbing. Actually, last year you had the best year of valley climbing ever by anybody, not your best year, but like the best year of valley climbing ever. I guess in, but in January, like a month ago, I went back and I was climbing on leaning tower and then one of the days I just climbed the roster with my friend. And I was just like over gripping and like not feeling good on it. And like the rock felt slick and I didn't feel right. And you know, this was just right after I had such a great season where I could just like something like the roster would have been, you know, I could have done blindfolded or something. And so I think that just goes to show like how much trust and how like demanding valley climbing can be where it's something that, you know, no matter how, no matter how comfortable you feel on the granite, no matter how solid you feel, as soon as the next season starts, as soon as you spend some time away, it's just going to take it a day or two, at least to kind of relearn it. People ask me that all the time with like, oh, you free soul and all caps. So you just look at it and you're like, I can do that. And I'm like, no, I look at that wall and I'm like, that looks so hard. Like there's no chance. Like every season you show back up for the first time and you're like, oh my god, like there's no chance I can climb that. Like the first lap of the nose for the year, you're just like, you get to the end and you're just like ready to be done. I mean, speaking of your first lap on the nose for the season, you know, did it feel important for you to go back and resend it just to prove yourself that 15 year old you hadn't peaked? Or was the end of day important? I think the end of day was important. I think triple direct. Why was triple direct so important to you? So I free the nose in fall 2018. The next season was spring 2019. I started trying triple direct a bit, but then there was kind of this late season, spree storm in May. And then so it wasn't really in the cards that spring season, but I tried it again in the fall. And that was kind of where I kind of perceived myself as like having this like sort of regression in the midst of puberty or whatever. I don't know if I was actually climbing worse, but I was definitely in my head about it. You just felt worse for a reason. And I got close actually. I freed everything but changing corners and like felt the very end of changing corners on two separate set and pushes. Oh well. With your dad? Yeah, with my dad. So I didn't do it then. That was 2019. 2020 was COVID. There was no spring value season. And the fall that was really bad wildfire smoke. And then the next year I was just kind of working on sport climbing objectives. Then I was college applications. And I started college. And it just like I kept pushing it off a little bit. And at that point I realized, well, if I go back, I need to fully relearn the pitch. And it became this sort of like this thing that I was thinking about. And it was like stressing me out a little bit. And so triple director was kind of that one where I was like, to me, I kind of had seen it as like my marker of regression or whatever. And that was the one I wanted to go back to kind of like, you know, set things back on the right track. But it's funny because after climbing it, when I did changing corners again, I didn't do any two moves the same. So it's like, why am I even comparing against my own self? And it kind of I kind of had this sort of realization where like, I'm not sure I'd say I'm a better climber than I was when I was like 15 or something. I wouldn't say I'm a worse climber than I was when I was 15. I'm just so different because I'm like a different human being now. Now, obviously you're a way better climber than you were 15. Like 15 year old you wasn't climbing core zone in nine hours and wasn't climbing. You know what I mean? Yeah, but I wasn't like, I mean, like for instance this year I couldn't fit into the same positions in changing corners. I couldn't pull on the same pin scars, right? Like in the same way. And I had to change my bed. I could still do the pitch, but I had to like do it differently. And so I think they're like, I think that just goes to show like I'm just a different climber now, right? Yeah, you're a different person. Yeah. I'm just a different person. And so that was kind of the motivation behind triple direct. Trying to bring the nose in a day is just something I've always wanted to do. Yeah, is that because of the history because of Lynn because of Tommy? Because of Lynn and Tommy. Particularly because of Lynn. I mean, the idea that like, yeah, like in 1994, right? People had doubted whether it was even possible to free climate thing and she just goes and does it. And then the next year she comes back and just does it in a day. I was born in 2003. That's the three. That's crazy. So a decade before you were born she freed the dozen day. That's so crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. And so like growing up it was always like, man, if I could ever free the nose in a day, that would be so cool. And so that was that was where that motivation came from. It wasn't really from this like weird, like kind of psychological thing. It was just like pure inspiration. Like that would be the coolest thing ever. So what do you see as the next steps for the next 10 years? You know, it's like, where do you see moving forward? It's like you sort of, you know, like freeing the nose in a day is a good benchmark where it's like, okay, well, Lynn did it in 94, which is, which is way out of her time. But then you know, Tommy did it in, I don't know, 2005 or something. And it's like, now you've, you've repeated that. I guess actually a really interesting question because like I've noticed in the past few years, right, there's been this like kind of really almost, I don't want to say resurgence, but like this like surge of hard climbing in the valley where like people are coming in and just like sending all the hardest stuff. But I think it's really just matching the previous, the gym is from like kind of the previous generation. And I think it's going to be really cool to see like, I think there's plenty of projects I've heard whispers about in the valley. I mean, this thing on leading tower, for instance, but there's plenty of other roots. And so I think it's cool to like, you know, be putting up these like next hardest roots way, their LCAP lines or on other walls or I've even kind of thought like, I bet there's some really hard single pitches in the middle of LCAP like theorizing. Like right now, we kind of think like, okay, it's only worth climbing if there's a full root bottom top that goes. But like what if say the shield head wall, like what if one of those craft pitches would go? And it would be like a 14 plus crack. I don't know. And maybe it wouldn't go yet to do the full climb, but it would be cool to do those pitches. And so I think that's definitely something where there's potential. I think I mean, one thing that would be cool is doing the LCAP double, of course, hasn't been done again since Tommy, right? But I bet it could be done with, you know, a harder second root, for instance. And so I think there's plenty of, there's plenty of potential there. Dude, the free triple. Free triple. Well, the free triple crown, speak, you know, to pivot a little bit, it's a lot harder now. Well, exactly, but that's why it's next generation. It's like a new new type of challenge. It was, it was next generation, last generation. It's still next generation because it's way harder now, but that's definitely on the radar. Please comment for finding the time to chat with us. I know. you have been asking for this, and it is an option. We're calling it Climbing Gold Unroped, get it delivered to all major podcasting platforms. Sports show, no ads for you, I think it's a win win. There you go. Link is in the show notes. Climbing Gold is created by Dr. Taftin Beer. Alex Honald is our host. Our production team includes the talents of Skylar Perwins, Marco Siler-Gunsalis and Evan Phillips. Creative Director is me, Fitzgaw. Today's music by Brendan O'Connell. Will Taylor handles our ad sales, our executive producers, our Jonathan Redsick and Leese Hendrix for RxR Sports, and Becca Cahal for Dr. Taftin Beer. Thanks for listening.