connecting with Natascha about Leaving Behind “Success” For a Slow Life

[Music] Hi and welcome to the Intudedly Wild Podcast. I'm your host Rachel Levine. Living in Tudedly Wild is about coming back home to ourselves. Here we talk about how to look connected to ourselves, others and nature, and make a commitment to radical authenticity, vulnerability and exceptions. On this podcast we delve into a wide range of topics that span the human experience. We peel back the layers and talk about the things that are often not talked about. This is a space for us all to walk and wander this path of life together. Let's dig into our roots and go deep. I've been looking forward to this all week, honestly, because I have so many different meetings, so many podcasts, recordings, and I'm looking forward to all of them. You are supposed to be extra special because now I get to consider you, a dear friend, so just hopping on here, seeing your face, going to talk to you is a gift in my day, so I'm so happy to be here. Me too. I just feel so lucky that we are almost constantly in some sort of conversation with each other, whether that be on a personal basis, podcast basis, professional. We're just hitting it on all friends, so I'm thrilled to be here. We really, really are. Okay, and we're going to get into all of it, but let me start with the first question I ask, oh my guess, is, what is something you wish people knew about you that you don't think many do? Oh, I should have known you're going to ask a fantastic, fantastic question. Ooh, I actually get stage fright. Most people don't know that because I'm a literal performer, but I get pretty significant anxiety before going on stage. I actually did not know that feeling like that is a good segue into telling people about your origin story and starting off as a performer and then this transition you've made in your life. Origin story is always such a funny term to me because it has that implied where do I begin. But I'll just begin with the fact that I began my career as in straight out of college as a professional singer, songwriter in Nashville. So for four years, I was releasing records and touring and trying to get a record deal, all of the things. And at the same time, this is kind of a teaser or foreshadowing what that I did not know was happening at the time, but I was designing my own brand. And at the time that was out of sheer necessity, I could not afford to pay anybody to design my brand, direct my music videos, anything of this sort. So I was spending hours on YouTube trying to figure out all of the things. And in doing so, I, one, found I really, really enjoyed doing that. And two, people really enjoyed what I was doing as well. So shortly into my career, I started getting inquiries asking who was doing my branding. And I sheepishly was answering, well, I am thinking that they were like, you need to get some, you need to get some professional help sis. And yeah, I decided to kind of start moon lighting in some graphic design and brand design for other artists because collaboration is really, really huge in Nashville. So I had plenty of people to work with, who also couldn't afford to spend X, Y and Z and Z, and I had a lot of people to be a number of dollars on branding. And yeah, then there kind of came a natural point where I realized my time in Nashville had concluded. And I had been doing a little bit more branding work at the time as it was. And I went back to Iowa where I'm from and I went into it with the intention of doing both side by side full board, very equal split. But then again, you always say you don't know until you know there came a time where I knew that my chapter as a professional singer songwriter had kind of not concluded but had muted a little bit. And I just decided to take moons and things in its entirety. So here we are now. Here we are now. And what was that moment where you knew that it was time to let the music go in that way. Highly, highly specific, but I was, I had released my record, my, my first full length record rather in February of 22. I was scheduled to go on a writing trip to London two months later. And a week before I was supposed to leave, my anxiety was through the roof. And I finally, after years of struggling with anxiety, realized the direct correlation to my music career. And I decided to cancel the trip at the time for now and then realized that the moment I canceled the trip, it was instant relief and that it was time to probably claim some autonomy around the decision rather than just seeing if it would fizzle out itself. And we've talked about how our bodies speak to us so strongly. And I think a lot of people are, they experience these body responses to situations and experiences in people, but we ignore it or we don't realize that there's a connection to what our body is saying and that thing. And I am curious how you brought awareness to that situation, that your anxiety and how your body was talking to you was related to music or that career path and how you started to connect the dots there. Yeah, well, it's so interesting because I, so I since being a young girl have struggled with some semblance of anxiety, but was just none the wiser. And my parents were always just like, oh, she's a warrior, but the language for anxiety wasn't quite there yet. And then when I moved to Nashville, again, direct correlation, but I just didn't have the awareness yet, I started having panic attacks, which is your body pretty much blatantly saying, hey, the saying it. But again, I just, you don't know what you don't know. And at the time, I just thought, oh, this is something I've developed and now I have to deal with it. But it wasn't until I started going to yoga and really creating a relationship with my body, rather than just being a passive inhabitant of it. And I started to pardon the pun, but almost hone the muscle of keying my body and on the conversation. And that work never stops. I've been doing yoga for eight years and I'm still sometimes better, quote unquote, better at it than other times. But that really has been so elemental in me, not just letting the world happen to me and then wondering why my body was reacting that way. But in being so present that I know how my body is responding to specific situations and then being able to act accordingly from there. I love that you brought up yoga and how it helped you form this relationship with your body and bring your body into the conversation because I think a lot of people can feel like our body is not actually important to listen to and also not a part of the spiritual experience like this spiritual connection, something outside of ourselves or this body is just an inconvenience. But really connecting to our bodies were humans in this body and having a relationship with our body is part of the spiritual experience. It's part of spirituality. And I also that must be extra important for you because you live with a chronic illness and your body is always speaking to you and you really have to be so present with it to navigate life in an intentional way. So I'd love to hear a little bit about that story as well. Well, first I want to bring up the point to thank you for bringing up the chronic pain piece because I've lived with chronic pain for 13 years up until this year, former, formerly unresolved or rather unknown what was going on. And so even with the panic attacks, I immediately chalked it up to well, it goes in that category. It goes in that bucket of unknowns and so a big part of my process of forming a relationship with my body has been knowing what belongs in what bucket. And yes, responding to it accordingly, but also knowing when I just can't hyper focus on it as well. So yeah, long story short, I live with. chronic migraine is the official diagnosis, but it is severe enough that it has manifested with a lot of different symptoms that in the past 13 years has caused so many different medical professionals to go down so many different routes. And so the past 13 years of my life have been very blessed. I'm very fortunate, but have been hard in that I've been down some rabbit hole or other at almost any given moment in time and sometimes that rabbit hole was just this is the way it is. We're going to live with this, which also isn't a helpful rabbit hole to be in when you're wanting to be proactive and have a have a good life even if it is in a little bit of pain. That also has been just such a big part of who I am as person and as business owner. It played a key part in me leaving Nashville as well of just realizing that my body isn't broken. It's just not equipped to deal with high stress situations. And as a result, I have to shape an entire lifestyle and entire business around that. And it feels funny to say as I'm sitting here transparently in a bit of pain today. It feels funny to say but I'm so grateful for that. Queue from my body. It could have gone a little bit easier. It could have been a different queue. I'm just saying that. But it has led me down a path of really pursuing a life that is slow and spacious and gives me the opportunity to even be present with my body. And that's something that we have really bonded over the fact that we want a similar type of lifestyle. We really try to choose that and embody that and everything that we do and we're both very intentional people, very thoughtful people. And it doesn't always come easily. You know, it really is something that we have to choose every day. And so I would love to hear how you have crafted this lifestyle for yourself and how you do choose that and prioritize that. Well, it like you said is a constant work in progress. I feel like I'm putting in a lot of elbow grease in this particular season because I went so far in the other direction. So you and I have chatted about this as well as that we are inherently ambitious women. We love what we do. We want it to be our version of successful. But that comes into direct competition with the world's version of successful and the world's version of ambition. And so not only are you and I both working towards a slow and spacious lifestyle, but we're also trying to figure out or keep, keep top of mind what our version of each of those things is. And so sometimes I tend to go in the opposite way because I am just so excited and then live in about something that I'm doing. And then all of a sudden I go, "Wait, wait, is this working towards my ultimate endgame? Is this actually achieving my version of success?" And so a big part of it for me is being a die hard list girl. So let me explain myself. I have always I'm Taipei and I have tried over the years to stop being a list girl because I've been like it's too rigid. It removes the ability to move through my day as I want to move through my day. But I've realized that in the past couple months that it actually keeps me really really be holding in written form to the endgame to what I want my days and my life to look like. And so I think for me, I have this big picture, this is what I want my whole life to look like, but we have to break it down to that molecular, I have to break it down anyway to that molecular level of days because that's what makes up that entire life and removes that tendency to just kind of slip into a different version if that makes sense. So I was just showing you before I made one this morning and it was just like we have to go half hour by half hour or in this case we're we're here for the whole hour. And so sometimes I have to make like a funny little visual to pick, oh right what's our capacity actually look like? And I think the misconception is for people like you and me, for people who see it on the outside, they go, wow, how are they doing it? Like how did they achieve it and check it off? And I'm even having to realize we never check it off. It just is constant work that you have to do because the world isn't wired that way. You just have to kind of almost be in gentle combat with it every single day. Absolutely and I am also a list gal, as many people might know. And for me, my lists give structure to allow for more flow, to allow for freedom, to allow for more presence and accepting that part of myself and accepting the ways that I can use my structure and in other ways, hyper rigidity, perfectionistic ways in useful habits has been really helpful for me. We talk a lot about presence and how you just have to be present in each moment. And this is even something that I say a lot like as long as you're showing up for present moment you and what you know your needs and desires are in that moment. That's everything will fall into place. But that requires a deep understanding of yourself because you can't only be like, oh, in this present moment, I want to say yes to this project. You have to be like, no, in this present moment, maybe that's sounding exciting. But I also know my overall intentions. I know my overall values. I know who I am as a whole person. And I can be present with all the versions of myself. So maybe I'm not going to say yes to this project because even though it sounds enticing in the moment, it doesn't actually line up with my overall values. And I think that that's a layer that people can sometimes overlook. And that's why knowing yourself so well is so important to actually live an intentional lifestyle. I could not agree more. And I think when people say, you know, be present and you might have an emotion that is like a full body. Yes, it's important to consider the circumstances around that yes. And so for example, you brought up, oh, this project is on the table. And so if I experience a full body, yes, perhaps the circumstances are, I love that person. They seem like a fantastic co-creator. They seem to have such a great amount of trust in me. And I know we can create something beautiful together. Great. That's what's contributing to that full body, yes, in that moment. But for some reason or other, the brain is blocking out the fact that there's literally no time in the calendar. Or that this is going to directly compete with a different trajectory that you're on. And I think that's just that makes being present sounds like such a process. You know, it's like in one, in one second, how much are you actually unpacking? And that can make it seem daunting, but I have found that that's really what it requires is being willing to dissect how a present moment actually feels. And yes, just being being in it too, but also knowing that the full story maybe isn't there because there are so many different contributors to that full body, yes, in this example. And did you always have this connection to yourself? Did you always feel like you knew yourself really well and knew your values and knew your desires or was that a process for you? It was definitely a process. I think what I did always know is that I was different and I don't mean that in a, what I mean by that is I was aware that I was attuned. And again, I'm going to bring it back to when I was a little girl that came out and that I was pretty highly sensitive. And I just seemed to be really perceptive of other people's emotions and of my own. And I think as I got older, that manifested in a way of realizing that I just was pretty self-aware, pretty and pretty well tapped into myself. But what I had to learn was to actually shut up and listen to that. And so being a people-pleaser and an ambitious person, I got really, really good at just ignoring every single indication from myself that something was or wasn't for me. And so, you know, I would always say, and I still would say, I'm really, really good at reading people. Like, that's one of the first things I can do, when I lived in Nashville, I could walk into a music industry event and spend a second talking to someone and immediately go, "Yeah, you're nay. Just for me or not for me, giving me a good sense or not." And even then, sometimes still, I would pursue that friendship or pursue that relationship or professional relationship. And so, yeah, I think in that specific example, I had to remove myself from the, from the environment where it was so easy to say no to yourself because you almost had to. So that was kind of an extreme case, but then once I did move back and things were just quiet. I had the opportunity to just realize that that intuition exists for a reason. And it usually was pretty on track, and guiding me through life in a way that wasn't so stressful. And then again, that's still a process. Like I just said, I had a couple of months where I didn't listen at all. And now we're back. We're listening again. Yeah, and that's, I mean, that's how we find the balance is by being out of balance and then recognizing that we're out of balance and then choosing to readjust and navigate. And that just deepens our relationship with ourselves. I think we can get frustrated when we fall off center, but we all have moments where we don't listen to our intuition, where we don't trust ourselves, where we go against what we know to be true or what we feel like might be right for us. And that is for all different reasons. Like we all have different stories and blocks and things that kind of can get in our way, but we just always have to be committed to coming back to center over and over again, as as many times as we need. And that's part of life. I don't think anyone stays perfectly connected to their intuition perfectly, attuned with themselves 100% of the time. I think it's next to impossible in this world that we live in. I think what is consoling is that over time you gradually learn what it is that brings you back to center quicker. So you don't have to resent those periods of imbalance quite as much because you know they'll run their course and that you know the way back. And so for example, for me, a big part is, okay, you have to be at yoga every single day or you have to make sure that your day is broken up really, really almost microscopically between like business and wellness and dogs and just get really granular about it for a second. And I know that's the path back. And so while it is a shame that we never quite get to that place where we can keep, keep center no matter what, it's so so lovely that the more we just commit to the process of being attuned to ourselves, the I hesitate to use the word easier because there's nothing easy about it. But the less resistance we experience getting back to balance. Exactly. And I also, it's so funny hearing you talk about how structured you are and me being the same because I consider you such a creative person. Like you are one of the most creative people I know. And there is that misconception that if you're creative, you're so flowy and you don't have a schedule and just like all these things. But again, this is just testament that everyone's so different. And you and I both find the safety to be more creative through that structure. But I would love to hear about your relationship with creativity because you're also creative in so many different ways like with your music, with your branding business, just all the things. So I really want to hear about your connection to creativity and how that shows up in your life. Yeah. Well, I have to say I would love to be the type of creative person who is free-flowing. And I think that has been such a big part of my journey is trying and epically failing and just being like that is just not who I am. But yeah, creativity. I, like you said, I am creative in just a lot of different areas. So, you know, I am a songwriter/writer in general. I have a brand and web design business. But then also I am a chronic hobbyist and so I have a lot of creative hobbies and I like to bake and cook, which I also consider a creative hobby as well. And so I have come to realize that there is quite literally no part of my day that isn't creative. And that's the way I like it. It makes me feel like the most full version of myself if I am not necessarily actively creating, but aware of creation at any given moment. And so that has been really transformative for me because it's made me realize that it is going to show up differently every single day, but it's going to show up no matter what. And so for example, I have a hard time with taking an entire day off of work because I love my business. I love to know that there's forward momentum. But sometimes that category of creativity, you know, for a specific project just isn't there that day. It's just not firing. And historically I would have been like, come on, like turn it on, get it going. But now I just get to pivot and tap into a different compartment of my creativity, which then only flows into that other compartment. I'm kind of painting an interesting visual here, but they really, I just picture my creativity as constantly like pulling from one well and pouring into another because it truly is just such a big part of how my brain and existence works is just both experiencing the world creatively and then wanting to be a creative participant in it as well. I love that you brought this up because I again, I think that our society can create this category for what creativity is. And I think that everyone is creative and everyone has their own ways of being creative. And again, like I was saying, you are one of the most creative people I know, not only because like literally you're in the typical way you're creative, but also like you said, you're always doing a new hobby, you're always making candles or baking bread. And just the way that you talk and think the way you structure your texts to me, like they're everything is so creative. And I just love it so much. And so I think it is, again, I think that being a creative person, the most creative people for me are the people who are curious and who are observant of life and always thinking of life in new ways and willing to look at things differently, flexible with how they think about life and how they approach life. And you always inspire me to be more creative. And I mean, that kind of, I guess, I feel like this is a good segue to talk about our work together and your work in general just as a branding designer, web designer. I guess let's start with what you love so much about that work. Oh goodness. I don't even know where to begin because I love so much about it. So I think the first thing I love about anything that I create is that in most cases, whether it be a song or a brand or a substack essay, it comes out of thin air. And I feel like that is sometimes the closest thing to magic that we have in our world is just the fact that we all have it within us to just create something out of thin air. And so I love the, yeah, the visceral magical element of that. But more than anything, I just really love the co-creative aspect of my work and that in designing a brand with someone or designing a website with someone or being in a brand strategy project that what we produce together can not exist without both of our minds together. Again, because I think it's pretty akin to magic, but also because in today's day and age, I feel like we have, we as in the humankind, have become extremely isolated in pretty much everything that we do. And my work, which work is such a big part of our lives, Well. for better or for worse work is such a big part of our lives. I feel so lucky that my work is not an isolation that it is in relationship building and in world building together. I don't think there's any day that I don't pull up into this chair. I usually like kind of throw myself into and do a little spin, you know, just for a fact. There's no day that I don't do that and just feel so lucky that I'm immersing myself in work that I simply cannot do by myself. Yeah, and you are also alongside being one of the most great people. I know you're one of the most collaborative people I know and someone who I've learned so much about collaboration from working with other people and just co-creating together. Whether it's our work together, just hearing about other experiences you've had. And I think that it's so important for us to all be co-creating together in some way. And yet not everyone's work is able to do that. But I do believe there's especially I think with females, there's a lot of competition and just different energy when it comes to being an entrepreneur or putting out different work in the world. And so I think any way that we can be collaborative and can support each other. And I just think it's so beautiful that your work in and of itself is to build a platform for people to shine. And I mean, through our work together, you've helped me feel like I have a steadier foundation underneath my feet for my business. And it's been so fun to create that with you. And Natasha just launched her own podcast. And I was lucky enough to be one of the first episodes. And you should definitely go listen to that conversation. It's one of my favorites. And it we talk a little bit about our work together and you asked me what was something. I forget the exact question, but either what was something I learned about my work through us working together. I love to ask you a similar question. If there's anything that you have learned by us working together, anything that comes to mind when you think about creating the website for my brand. Well, I love that question because I think there can be this misconception in the branding world that the designer one just like does it. And you know, brings the expertise table and then walks away and is no different for it or is exerting their own style upon it. And that is just one as someone who doesn't have a design style on purpose. That's never the case. But especially because I think that I am changed by every single one of my projects. It's hard not to be when your projects are anywhere from, you know, two to six months long. And your in relationship that much. But the biggest thing for me. The project has been honestly from the copy side of the equation. It has been your voice has been an entirely different one. Then any other ones that I've written with before. And that is because you are a writer. And so I had the privilege of studying your writing that already exists in the world and familiarizing myself with your voice. As it already exists in written form. And then attempting to hopefully accomplishing attempting to emulate that and also strengthen it through the web medium. And so in most cases, I tend to be yes, everybody already has a voice. They have a way of speaking. But in most cases, I'm the one crafting the parameters around it and giving it more structure again. To exist within their brand within their business guidelines, if you will. But in your case, I just had the privilege of kind of being a chameleon and. Almost being a continuation of. I'm picturing like this continuum of your, your work that already exists in the world. Trying to be a conduit and carrying that out further. And so that's just been an entirely different one skill to draw upon. But it's also as a result, open up a whole different world of language around presence around being intuitive that I don't think I necessarily had accessible to me before. I love hearing that. And it's also so interesting because as I shared with you as we talked about on your podcast, you unlocked. In the ways that you were taking my writing and my words and creating structuring them for the website, you will unlock a new perspective for me around my work. And how I think about it, what I do specifically in terms of one-on-one work and. This idea of helping people navigate the in between and really focusing on that energy. And so I love how you. How you brought how the words. We're so impactful for both of us in different ways. And that makes so much sense because we both really value language and words and find a lot of creativity in that. But that is just really interesting to me. Yeah. When I loved I haven't gotten the chance to read it yet. I forget if it was a substock or an actual newsletter, but it's sitting in my inbox waiting for me. So object line has something to do with the in between. And I just remember full on breakfast club fist bumping when I saw it come in my inbox because I was like, this language is resonating with her so much to the degree that she's continuing to carry it out, which I knew I knew it was you had told me as much. I just see it in tangible form was really, really exciting for me. I'm so excited to read that that essay. But yeah, it's just been a beautiful thing to for both of us, I think to have our relationship with for me words themselves, but then for you, the words that you wear almost shift. And I've just loved every second of it. I feel like the way that you have created this home online or that we're still in the process of creating this home online for the wild allows it to expand versus contract. And I think that that is something that can be really challenging with trying to succinctly explain yourself online as you kind of like box yourself in. And it's been really important for me and you've helped me do this to allow all of me to exist. And that's what I help other people do is to allow all of themselves to exist and to allow all of us to continue to evolve. That brings me to a question that I'm so excited to ask you, you asked me actually a similar one on your podcast, what is a chapter of your life you feel like you are leaving behind and a chapter you feel like you are entering. So I do feel like I am leaving behind my conventional ambition era. So I'm still that is still actively happening where I feel like I am laying to rest the version of me that people know really, really well, which is someone I'm a doer. I'm a doer. I'm a doer. I have a lot of projects on my plate at any given moment. And I actually had a podcast interview yesterday where she reflected to me that she is she's like, I don't know how you do it all. It's so impressive to me. I don't know how you do it all. And it was at that moment where I went, I don't want to anymore. I don't want to do it all. And so I think I'm just really in an era of going back, scaling back and phasing out things that maybe I still love, but that perhaps don't serve where I am headed next. And they can still exist, but maybe they don't have to have the same take up the same amount of space in my life. And so I'm going to become a con girl. It's going to be great. And I think that leads to the next chapter of my life that I'm really excited for is alongside what I do branding and web wise is also starting to teach yoga. So I actually start next week already. And by nature of teaching yoga. That is something, the way of living that yoga pre-emnsive of being present, of being in relationship with your body, I am very aware I need to embody that in order to teach it. And so this overlap of eras, if you will, has come about very naturally, quicker than I thought it would, but has almost necessitated the closing of one chapter and the opening of the other. I feel like I rambled there, but mostly because I'm still processing the fact that I'm perched right between the two. I am in the end between how fitting that I would be processing it on this podcast with you. Well, so one is that I feel like what you were saying in the beginning around the chapter you're leaving behind and how you're doing that comes back to what we were talking about before, which is that even things that you love, you have to be discerning of like they don't fit right now or anymore. And so being present with your big picture goal. And also, yeah, I really do feel like you are watching yourself transition, like you're in this in between watching yourself become someone new and choosing to become someone new and choosing that even though it's unfamiliar and uncertain and not only unfamiliar to you but unfamiliar to other people. And we have to be comfortable with other people's responses to us changing. And do you foresee that being a thing in your life or other people respond or react in a way that might be challenging for you as you are becoming this new version of yourself. I very much do foresee it and I think that is what is making this in between actually a little bit more difficult is because I care. I really deeply care and not in a way of I like care what people think of me, but rather I care how my shift impacts other people. Let me give you an example. One of these things that I am aware I, or I'm sorry, I am actively doing is cutting down significantly on the role that social media plays in my business. And people know me as someone who I say this humbly does social media pretty pretty darn well and actually really enjoys it and both of those things are true. But there is not room for it to play as substantial of a role as it has been nor is there desire anymore. So I've been navigating that in that already people are responding and saying, are you okay? Because I haven't posted on stories in three days or what's going on? I haven't seen a scene a scene a real in weeks. And while I'm not any sort of pretentious enough to think that my absence on social media is affecting people, that's not at all what I meant. It's knowing that my existence on social media in that case has some sort of bearing on their reflection of me. And the example is that I'm phasing out a couple of services that I have historically offered. And that means that roster clients who come back again and again and again are experiencing a change in what they have already come to know as an M&T co constant. And so that's a really big example of where I don't want to change things for them because they're comfortable in it and it works really, really well for them. But I'm not doing anybody any favors when it doesn't work for me. And so I think I'm just very grateful I have the awareness that as this shift occurs, there is going to be a response. And I'm knowing that I can be aware of said response and compassionate said response, but I'm not beholden to shift in the other direction again. It's an interesting thing that's unfolding in real time really this is the in between you guys are getting the unfiltered processing right now. And I love these examples that you brought up and I think that what's so important to remind ourselves is that yes, people might respond in some certain way because they've grown comfortable with this current version of ourselves. But who knows what will land on the other side what this new version of ourselves were becoming will be and now they matters if they accept or like or you know whatever. Yeah, our new version, but we have to trust that how our new version impacts people if it's aligned for us, it will impact them in the way that it needs to. And so they might like your new offers even better or it might lead them to find someone new to work with who is perfect for this season of their life, you know, we have no idea and so we can't let that change and that uncertainty of what will fill its place stop us from trusting that we need to become this new version. And I think the best part of this particular shift because let's be honest, when are we not becoming a different iteration of ourselves if we're doing it right, we are constantly constantly becoming. But I don't know if you can attest to this Rachel, but there are certain ones that you can just feel the gravity of them quite a bit more and that makes you want to be that much more aware within them. And this feels like one that does have that gravity, but that also I feel so confident in I don't know if that's the word I'm looking for. That was a thread on our podcast episode. There's so many there's so many through lines in the same thing connecting to the other podcast yet. Really, but I think a lot of times when we're in those shifts, we're just really uncomfortable because we don't know what's on the other side because we don't know what we need to do to get to the other side or to leave behind the other one. And while there is some uncertainty in this one, there's also I just feel so affirmed in it. This is the direction I need to be going and that makes it so much so helpful to encounter those feelings that aren't quite as comfortable and go, OK, you're valid, but also not valid enough to send me back in in the other direction again. 100% I feel like I'm in the exact same position with that and again, it takes being it's because we have done the work for lack of a better word to get to know ourselves to be clear about what we want to commit to ourselves and to know how we want to show up in our lives. Then to be willing to be uncomfortable in the process of choosing that very much so and I just that's one of my my another part of one of my favorite parts of the branding process is giving people a small amount of that knowledge that helps them become more aware of how they move through. You know a lot of people think just your business, but you're being as well, because I just there's never a moment in time where we that knowledge is not necessary, we always need more of it. And so yeah, I just really love that that's become a key part of my work as well, not to bring it back to my work, but that has become a key part as well as handing someone a piece of the puzzle that they perhaps couldn't access by themselves. And I think that's the same for the work that you do. In fact, I know that's the same is when people come to you and I think I've gotten to experience the second hand as your friend and your voice memos when people come to you and our relationship with you. You are so tuned into the the intuition and the presence piece that you're able to reflect something back at them that they might not have been able to see for themselves. And I think we're both really lucky to have that be a component of our work. Absolutely. And to find that in each other and to reflect that back to each other. And speaking of collaborations and speaking of the uncertainty and in between, I have no idea when I will be releasing my website, but I'm so excited to share it with the world and to share this first business collaboration. that we have done together. And it's so special to watch what unfolds when you follow your intuition through the whole process. You know, following my intuition to choose you to work with, following our intuition to take our conversations offline, and become friends, and following our intuition as you create the process and just trusting each other and, you know, watching it take shape together has been really beautiful. So, yeah, we've been along for the ride with each other, and I'm very grateful. Yeah, well, and even following our intuition and also the circumstances to giving the project more space than originally intended, that's also been a really interesting part for me as someone who tends to have more structure around my process of we had to shift timelines, which I know wasn't ideal, but it's been really interesting to see what that space has afforded both of us, right, in terms of adding things to the site just yesterday or in terms of me being able to take a beat longer and then revisit the site as I'm actively working on it, right? So, I just wanted to reflect how grateful I am for that, even though it wasn't the ideal circumstance, too. Yeah, we just got to trust the timing. How's that going for us? It changes every day. I get that. Okay, well, living into the blue wild means connecting to your true self and living dedicated to who you are at your core, no matter what. How do you feel like you live intuitively wild? Accord silence while I sit with this question. I live intuitively wild by never leaving space for a second guess. So, what I mean by that is one of the truest things about myself is that I know what I know and I know when I know it and when I leave room to doubt it, nothing good happens. And so, living intuitively wild for me is at its core really trusting myself. Oh, I just got the chills. I absolutely am obsessed with that response. And it's so true. And again, this is something that is a commitment and is a practice. I trust myself. I choose this. And staying committed to that. And I've seen you embody that. And yeah, just grateful to know you, grateful to have you in my life. Thank you for all of the kind words you said for having me on here. And for being willing to take our professional collaboration into the personal realm, I just feel all the better for it. I have a big, docket of voice my most to listen to today while I am on the lawn. And I'm not excited to mow the lawn, but I am excited to listen to you while I do it. It's truly been a gift. It's just, I mean, you know, I could ramble on about this forever. And this could be a whole other podcast, but it's so special when you can smitly find people and connect with them. And then relationships just unfold as they are. I'm someone who will never take close friendships for granted, because I've just had so many different experiences and relationships mean everything to me. That's magic to me is how we met and how our relationship has unfolded. Truly speaking of not second guessing when you were like, Hey, what would you think about not doing our voice memos over Instagram again informed the whole shift. And historically, I tend to be like, Well, you know, because you want to make sure that you don't make the professional and personal too muddy. And I remember I was just like, Nah, she's my, she's going to become a really, really good friend and look at us now. But yes, if people want to, they can find you on Instagram. You can share with people all the things. Yeah, so I am still going to be on Instagram because I do in fact enjoy it just not as much. I do have a podcast now which Rachel was so kind to share. It's called through lines and I'm just so excited that you know, I get to have conversations and for that to be a big part of my platform. I'm stuck and then of course on the great wide interwebs and things. So all of the places I'm there at some time or another and excited to greet you when you arrive. Yes, and every single thing every platform is beautiful and creative. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me Rachel. It was a delight. Thank you so much for joining me on this episode of Intusively Wild the Podcast. I hope it helped deepen your connection to yourself, sparked some insights and inspired you to live intuitively wild. If you enjoyed this podcast, it would mean so much to me if you would share it with others and leave a rating and review. And please reach out to me. I would love to connect to you. I will see you next time for more magic.