Congressman: “President Trump Was Briefed On Alien Hybrids!”

When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales. Using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. If we discover that our government has held on to anti-gravitic information from the scientific community, I'm going to be really pissed. Congressman Eric Burleson. Missouri Congressman Eric Burleson. Eric Burleson. What's going on here? At MIT Lincoln Labs, we found out that there was a reel-to-reel audio file where you have a senior official with the Department of Defense briefing scientists at MIT about saucers. Whoa. There is reportedly an object that is not in this country that is so large it cannot be moved. What's the craziest thing that's ever been told to you? You can leave the person totally anonymous. This thing was blacker than black, a sphere that was floating, and it just gave this sense of just complete evil and darkness. So they brought me in and they told me about the event that happened in the western United States. They actually personally encountered these UAP. So they jump in the helicopter, they go to the location, and what they interact with are basically glowing orbs. They are some type of spherical nebulous, what's described as like a ball of plasma. Neil McCaslin is a general who is extremely high up. He went super mysteriously missing. Yeah. We were definitely making inquiries trying to set up something. Whether there's a body in the desert, they need to go find a body. Yes. Find the body. I would like a full briefing, the same White House level briefing that the president gets on this topic. I want to be able to go to all these sites that we keep hearing about. Pax River, Whiteman Air Force Base. I'm going to go to Area 51, Lake S4, all of that stuff. What do you think President Trump knows about UFOs? I do believe he's been briefed and that during that briefing he was told that there are hybrids. Trump's responsible. You mean like Adam Schiff? Ha, ha, ha. All right. Well, a lot of the audience might be wondering why I'm wearing a collared shirt, which is not a normal thing for me on this show. It's because I'm with a congressman, one of my favorite congressmen, although you're from Missouri. I'm honored. No, I mean it. You seem like an angel amongst devils. A rare, you know, Diogenes would go around looking for an honest man, you know, in classical Greece. And, you know, he wouldn't find anyone. And I think you're a rare salt of the earth, honest man. And I think that's easy to pick up from your interviews. I think the vibe you give off is very just earnest and well-intentioned. And that is the least commoditized thing in Congress and in the world right now. So I appreciate you being here. It's an honor to be here. I'm a big fan of your podcast, of your show. I religiously watch. I'm a subscriber. And you should know there's some times where I pick up, I glean some ideas. And I bounce them off my staff and say, we need to look into this. Oh, that's awesome. Well, that's that to me, that's the pinnacle, because we were talking a little before rolling. And I'm always like, why am I, you know, sometimes the tip of the spear on certain things, at least in the open source world on UFOs. I want people in government to be following up on a lot of these things. So it's really heartening and cool to hear. And we, you know, text occasionally and stuff, too. And it's it's epic for me to hear that, you know, people in charge who actually are important and have power are doing something about this. Yeah, I have more confidence in your research abilities than most of the people that are working for the government. That gives you an idea. Well, I guess I'll consider myself the skinniest kid at fat camp. That's a low bar, but thank you. Nonetheless, I want to just give people a sense. You know, I think a lot of people have heard soundbites from you going viral on Twitter, that sort of thing. Just your kind of prehistory before running. For Congress, what made you want to run for Congress? What were you doing before? I was I worked in software. I was a software engineer, built one of the very first patient portals in the country back in the early 2000s, and then worked as a consultant for a company called Cerner and then later at the very end, Oracle, and so software engineer by trade, but also studied finance and and realized if I was ever going to make any real money, I either need to own my own software company or or go back, go into finance. And so I became a financial advisor. So boring guy from the Midwest. That's the best way of explaining it. We need more boring guys from the Midwest and in government. And then at what point did you decide to run? Yeah. So I would sit in my cubicle. I mean, my work environment is it was essentially the movie Office Space. I would sit in my cubicle each day and and, you know, bang out code and or lead a team of developers and I would listen to talk radio. I'd listen. I'd pay attention to what's going on in politics. And a lot of it, a lot of things I would listen to would be things like, you know, speeches by Milton Friedman or or Thomas Sowell. And I would read their books and just and get really frustrated with politicians. Yeah. Because like I think I just have a very idealistic view of the way things should be and was just so frustrated the way that the swamp operated and the way that. Even the people that I would help get elected. Yeah. They would disappoint me. And so eventually I decided if the if, you know, I've got to do it if if it at least give it a shot. Yeah. I love that the way you're putting that. Yeah. Get get involved. Be the kind of man in the arena. And those two people you mentioned, Milton Friedman and Thomas Sowell, have just such cutting and incisive takes that are timeless and really apply to today and really apply to the knee jerk. Yeah. And I think that's one of the things that I think is really important. That people have around kind of the conversation, especially around government spending. Yeah. And some of the identity politics stuff, especially with Thomas Sowell, where sometimes you got to make hard decisions in government. No one in government wants to make the hard decisions. They always want the future generations to foot the bill. And so those two and people like Friedrich Hayek before them really outlined all of these philosophies and the conversation. There's no conversation around any of this stuff like that. Like I really think of Tea Party Republicans as like the last Republicans to even be fiscally conservative. Like, you know what I mean? Well, I'm still that. And I feel like I'm part of a dwindling group in that realm, because as you see the party become more populist and more and less laissez-faire free, laissez-faire is like, you know, hands off. The government hands off approach to the market. I'm truly still a free market capitalist, you know, less government, respect the rule of law, a fundamental conservative. You're on your own. I can't. I'm not a rare breed anymore. You are. Seriously. Okay. So and how long have you been a congressman from Missouri? Three and a half years. Okay. And when did you get into UFOs? When I got into Congress. So being. My first moment was I'd just gotten elected. You try to when you get up when you get in Washington, D.C., they try. First and foremost, you would think that they would put you or assign you to committees that actually fit your talent and your experience. But that is not how Washington, D.C. works. It's a very broken environment. So I wasn't put on the financial services committee or any of the committees that would have anything to do with health care or or anything to do with software. I was put on oversight. And and, you know, transportation infrastructure. But, you know, I'm trying to carve my path, trying to find a role. And I was drinking coffee, coffee in my office one morning just by myself. And I was watching the news and I saw David Grush come on. And here's a and I there's something about him that I just was inspired by somebody that was bravely coming forward and saying that in that interview, he mentioned that he wants to talk to Congress. And. I have been in office for less than two months, maybe three months, and I thought that's me. I mean, I still have that role. role like where I still have a hard time seeing myself as I'm a member of Congress. But I just kind of, I thought, wait a minute, I'm a member of Congress. I might be able to do something about this. So we reached out to the studio and was able to get a conversation with David like the next week. Wild. That's awesome. So you say something about him kind of resonated. He seemed like just another honest, you know, and I think that is the vibe with him too. He's really this kind of team player. Most of the colleagues kind of in his background, even working with him in kind of conventional roles, viewed him as, you know, just very good at what he did. And then all of a sudden he's coming out. And I think it was a watershed moment for this UFO topic too, because it was a lot of quacky people before him. It was. There were some notable exceptions. I think Bob Lazar is actually really awesome and a cool guy. And he was, a lot of these people were saying things that just felt so beyond the pale, but Grush is really like, you look at him and you're like, he, you know, could be like a relative or something like he's just a normal dude. Yeah. Yeah. And he's saying some pretty remarkable things. He was. And so I thought this is worth getting, you know, he, him coming forward bravely and saying the things that he was saying. And just, there's a part of me that really abhors and hates a government that has the arrogance to think that it shouldn't tell its people what's really going on. And that probably is somewhere. In my id of that, that drives me crazy and probably is what's driving me in this whole topic. Especially when it comes to the nature of reality, like they really shouldn't have monopoly over that, you know, it's like some sort of little tactical trade secret warfare advantage, you know, in the nuclear program. Okay. I'm pro keeping that classified when it comes to this sort of stuff, like, you know, we're not alone or, you know, maybe there's something off with our physics that like academics should be teaching. Like that seems pretty, fundamental. It does. Like to me, the, if, if somebody's, as I was sitting on a plane on a tarmac once for three hours, sweating and not able to move because of an air traffic control situation, the thought came across to me that if, if we discover that our government has held onto anti-gravitic information from the scientific community, I'm going to be really pissed. Yeah, you should be. And I, and, you know, as somebody who, you know, I've gone pretty deep on the anti-gravity stuff that I think they are, I really do. I think they are. Um, I think, you know, I always bring up this guy, Thomas Townsend Brown, who, you know, I think I've made really real world updates in the world of gravity. There's an FBI document from the forties on him that says he is the lead radar scientist in the entire Navy knows more about radar than anyone in the Navy. And then now I think we have pretty good evidence that his work made it. Into the B2 stealth bomber. So you have two out of the three things that people used to deny that are now kind of hard to deny. And then the number three thing is like, he's talking about, uh, you know, merging electromagnetism and gravity in some way in this form of electro-gravitics. I don't think he's lying. I, I think it's interesting that people haven't really done a whole lot of deep diving into his research or, or the other thing that's interesting is you have these other scientists that went missing that were, uh, doing it. You had Amy Eskridge who went missing and, uh, or who, I'm sorry, she committed suicide, supposedly committed suicide. Yeah. Or yeah. Committed suicide, but claimed that she was, people were going after her at the end with directed energy showing burns on her hands at the end of her life. I found out that I was being physically surveilled. There's this weird fucking Lexus and it has tinted windows that are not street legal. My, my hands have been burned to hell and back as I've been typing. Cause you can beam me through there and through, or through there. And her father was a NASA, uh, a scientist who was interested in gravity modification. His name was Richard Eskridge. So strange. It is really strange. Her story is heartbreaking whenever you see the interviews and, and she was really calling for help as far as feeling threatened, feeling like people were coming after her, um, that she needs, she felt like she needed to come forward with what she knew quickly. Um, and then you had the, the weird case of, I think the other woman was Ling Li. Ning Li. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And who, um, just kind of dropped off the map for a period of a, of a few years. And then suddenly there was an obituary. That's right. And, uh, this is going to come full circle because Ning Li really interesting case where she was using solid state superconductors, rotating them really fast. And she, she basically said they emitted these gravitons that, uh, engaged in gravitational shielding. And so you would, you would get weight reduction for anything above the superconductor, which you shouldn't get weight, weight reduction. You know, the thing shouldn't lose weight. That's that means gravity is being modified somehow. It's really kind of crazy. And then she starts a company. It's literally called anti-gravity LLC. And people invest with her too. Like her colleagues apparently believed in it enough that they were putting their own money behind. They're all putting their money behind it and her she's at university of Alabama, Huntsville and the chair of her physics department as a guy named Larry Smalley. And he's so convinced that the thing works that he leaves his job to work for her. So then you have all these people being like, Oh, it's fake. She wasn't doing that. She didn't, you know, actually get any sort of effect and that's obviously BS. Um, and so, and then she tragically, uh, uh, gets hit by a car and dies of dementia years later, but she really went silent in that first period. When she gets that contract for her, for her company. Right. And, uh, the whole story is very strange. And this is going to come full circle because you now are investigating MITRE corporation as possibly being involved with UFOs. The last time Ning Li really spoke in a public way on record about her anti-gravity work was at a MITRE conference. I don't know if you're aware of this. Yeah, I admit it. And I did sit down and I interviewed her and this was at a conference in 2003, just outside of Washington, DC, uh, run by them or overseen by the MITRE corporation. And it was looking at, I think, high frequency gravitational waves. She chaired one of the sessions. I talked to her afterwards about it all. And then I don't know sort of how soon after that it was that she sort of went off grid. It was certainly probably about within, within a year, but she just disappeared. I didn't know that it was that conference. Yes. Yeah. And they used to convene all sorts of scientists on exotic science. And it felt very like a, you know, maybe a limited hangout or something. See what people know. And yeah, that's, that is interesting to know. I did not know that. Yeah. Something that we could, we should probably look into. I think so. Well, they're, so they're a federally funded research and development center, as you know, which is technically a nonprofit. They're kind of exempt from a lot of the oversight and scrutiny that, you know, normal government institutions would be. And they keep coming up when it comes to UFO lore, UFO oversight. Do you think they have something maybe to do with the UFO legacy program? I think that there's enough, there's enough rhetoric and enough speculation that it warrants us deep diving into MITRE. I think we're, if you, if you see my work lately, we're really trying to take a deep dive into these FFRDCs because they, it seems like, and honestly, historically, when you look back at their formation, they, all kind of were, were stood up around the, just after the Manhattan project, right? So you have the Manhattan project, that information gets leaked. Russia suddenly now has the information of how to build a nuclear bomb. And I think that our federal government learned, learned from those lessons and decided we're going to go about this a different way. So they spun up all these, these, you know, quasi private entities that, I mean, so an FFRDC really, their only, their only client is the federal government, but yet they get the benefit of acting like they're a private business. And you, it's really like, you know, I think the, the cowboy intelligence world, which existed in the forties and fifties, I think still exists in whispers in these FFRDCs because it's these guys who, you know, if you're a GS-15 in the government, you're not getting paid as much as you want. You probably have some restrictions on what you can and can't do. These guys in these FFRDCs, they're subject matter experts. They can get paid a whole lot. They can dual hat as all sorts of things. They can consult for NASA, NRO, you know, I'll do all these things at once. And, um, and then, yeah, it seems like the perfect sort of cover for, for UFO activities. And specifically you have aerospace corporation constantly coming up in the UFO conversation. Uh, I believe there was even a WikiLeaks email between John Podesta and, uh, an IT contractor, uh, there about, about fast walkers. Uh, and so, you know, I, and they, they always come in, you know, Eric Davis, of course, worked for aerospace corporation and then the Institute for Defense Analysis was an FFRDC back in the day. And Harold Malmgren was there and he even said on record, uh, that was a not official cover for like what I was actually doing for the national security council. So it feels like just this place you work at, that's an excuse to kind of do a bunch of other stuff and possibly UFO related. Yeah. And so we, we actually sent a letter early on to aerospace corp, um, and the oversight commit from our role, from my role to be able to get them to come in and answer some questions. And they actually responded and they sent someone, two people from their executive team, but of course they knew nothing. They absolutely, so we got them in a skiff. They, they have no idea what of any, any kind of UFOs or reverse engineering or anything like that. So we, that was the beginning that was, that was under the Biden administration that we had that interview. I, we might, I think we're probably going to reach out to them again with more specific detailed questions, because I think a lot of these government entities, what, even at the, like the agency, like the CIA I think that all of these programs, a lot of times these, these people are coming in, they're temporary workers. They come in to the role. Maybe they do enough deep digging into, to find out what what is, what did the person in my role do decades ago? But let me ask, most people in any other job don't really do that. They don't look back and say, what did the person in my role do decades and decades ago? So I think that we're in an, in a time in which it has been really, if it's true, that information has been so pulled in and compartmentalized that a lot of the people that are now in those roles, unless they really do some digging are not going to find it. So I think that's why we have to crowdsource it. We have to do the work of getting the details and then giving it to these people who are in a position of authority and saying, no, you need to go look for a file that's called X, Y, Z dated this date, right? That contains this. And that's where you're seeing my office is putting out a lot of these interrogative letters to MIT Lincoln labs. Any specific examples of what you're asking for from any of these organizations? So MIT Lincoln labs, we found out that there was a reel to reel audio file from way back in the forties. I'm sorry. No, I'm sorry. It's like 1952 where you have a, a senior official with the department of defense briefing scientists at MIT about the, about saucers. Right. And so we, we found out that that we got word that there was an audio file that existed, maybe even more documentation. So we sent an interrogative directly demanding that, that that be retained and that we get access to that audio. And that is currently, they, they responded that they did have that and that they are now processing it for, for us to be able to at least listen to it a skiff. And I, my hope is to get it disclosed. Whoa. So that was classified and you had the senior DOD official in 1952, presumably around the, you know, DC flyover, maybe, I don't know, in July. It is exactly. Wow. Where, you know, you had saucers on the white house lawn was the sort of, you know, headline newspaper headline. That's fascinating. Well, I can't wait to see what comes of that. So you think you're hopeful that that will get declassified? I, I am. I think that the fact that they've admitted that it does exist is, is now, okay, now we know it's there. So let's get it. Any other examples of specific things you're querying? So when the, after the Varginha case, when, when those individuals from Brazil came over, I was, you know, I was there with the, with James Fox and, and Leslie, Leslie Keene. And we were hearing from these individuals after the meeting, I, I ran into some of the folks from the FBI that are actually very much looking, want to look into this. And they said, sir, if you want us to look into this, if you'll write a letter, we'd be happy to, to jump on this. And so we wrote a letter specifically asking for details of that. And, and, and that's something that the FBI can look at, sink their teeth into, right there. If, if the reports are accurate, that means that there's flight records. That means that there's, there's some documents that they could actually go after. Yeah. Well, there was, um, you know, I know James Fox did this event in DC with, you know, three of the key witnesses from the Varginha event. And I know you were kind of a co-sponsor of the event. You were there. The truth is if, if there's any government that's holding information, they're not going to be able to do it. They're not going to be able to do it. They're the knowledge of whether or not we are alone or not alone in the universe. That is not for any government, no matter how powerful it is to withhold from the rest of humanity. Yeah. It was the Roswell of Brazil event. So many eyewitnesses. And so it, it gives us an opportunity to, to try to get that information. And the fact that Brazil is, you know, reaching out and saying that they want to cooperate with the United States, they want to, they want to, you know, come alongside us and be open and transparent as well. I think it's good. It's good that the United States is leading this because I, I'm seeing other nations come forward and reach out to our office. I've, I've had meetings with people from Japan. I've, I just recently, yesterday or the day before I had a meeting with two people, members of parliament from Canada. And so there, there are other nations that are seeing the work that the United States is demonstrating and, and hopefully that encourages them to also come forward. Yeah. Yeah. Just, got back from Brazil actually, where I interviewed the current presidential candidate and former defense minister, Aldo Ribello. Yeah. And he was basically like, yeah, I have no reason to doubt that, you know, I think Virginia happened. You said that fundamentally, you do think something happened in Virginia in 1996. Believing that a phenomenon like this exists, of course, because these were phenomena that had the testimony of totally credible witnesses. And it was actually kind of interesting. My kind of ex post analysis on the whole thing is he said, I asked him, I was like, when you were defense minister, did you see anything specifically around Virginia, Kolaris? You know, these are things that obviously, I think there's so much overwhelming evidence in the open source world that you actually have to be dogmatic and unreasonable not to, to, to say that nothing happened. Right. So that's what he was saying essentially in the interview is like, yeah, like I don't have access to class info necessarily about this, but you know, I think this happened. I think you have to be unreasonable to say that it didn't happen, but then it was interesting. We got James Fox, you know, this amazing documentarian who's documented the Virginia case more than anybody in his movie moment of contact. We got him on the phone and he's talking to Aldo and he's asking about the body being transported back and forth to the U S and the U S involvement and Ribello goes, well, I can't say anything that's classified. Yeah. Pretty good testimony from a number of witnesses on the Brazilian side that the entities, the, the ET went back to America, but we don't know what happened to the craft itself as here, any rulers of where the craft went. The information that's held by the ministry of defense is strictly classified. So I felt like there's a little bit of a tell that like, you know, and I, I don't knock the guy at all. And, you know, um, yeah, I think, I think it would be very bad for him if he were to reveal anything classified. So, you know, I, I'm not, I'm not blaming him. I think, I think the fact that he made the statements he did is, is fantastic, but I think he knew more than met the eye was my takeaway. Yeah. But those very specific, um, you know, incidents are things that we can really, really get into and really kind of, I think it's, I'm done kind of sending these broad letters. That's what, that's why the, the meeting with aerospace corp was such a nothing burger. So we, I think that if we can give them very specific details and then you can find people that I think a lot of them would be actually will be surprised when they go digging and they actually find it. Can't, can I send your request for something with, so with aerospace corp, there's a, I don't know if you're familiar with this book, American cosmic. Have you heard of it? No. It's an amazing book. It's by a religious studies professor, um, who actually wrote about Catholicism before she got into UFOs. She wrote a book about purgatory. And, um, then she started to look into kind of experience, divine experiences from brothers, nuns, and saints of the Catholic church and things like St. Francis of Assisi seeing sort of the flaming torch on the mountain in Mount Laverne, Italy. And she was like, Whoa, a lot of these actually look like, you know, a lot of different things. And so I think that's, I think that's, that's, I think that's, I think that's a really interesting book. And I think that's, I think that's a really interesting book. And I think that's a really interesting book. looking into with modern abductions in the nineties. Yeah. And she ends up going down this rabbit hole and she meets this guy, um, who's since been outed, not in her book by other, but by other people. And his name is Tim Taylor and he is, uh, at aerospace corporation, but he's a NASA mission controller. So he's kind of one of these sort of dual hatted guys. And he tells her openly, I'm part of a secret space program. He actually takes her and Stanford professor, Gary Nolan to a crash site where they look at material. Oh, that's where Gary got that material. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Exactly. This like frog skin material. Gary also gets material that he studies from Jacques Vallee and stuff, but, uh, yeah, so really fascinating guy. And he's claiming that he works like in kind of adjusting timelines, which sounds nuts, but if you watch disclosure day and maybe they're hiding truth and fiction, it's, that's kind of what the movie's about. And it just seems like this fascinating guy. And I think he was in touch with certain members of the UAPTF, which is obviously responsible for a lot of modern disclosure, you know? Um, so yeah, it's it's, it's interesting. Like, I think, I think I'd love to know if, can you get him to come out and maybe come on the show or, you know, make a statement or something? Yeah. Give me the details on, but we happy to get our team on it. We can, we can follow up. Yeah. Yeah. He's, he seems like a fascinating guy. Um, you've had some really interesting experiences where you've, uh, and this was kind of an interesting moment in the weaponized podcast you did where Jeremy kind of pressed and was like, uh, you went to Pax river and you were like, Oh, that's not on record yet. Guys. I, I can't really, I have not publicly said that, that, that I've taken the trip to Pax river at this time. And so, okay. Can you say anything more about that? I mean, it's now pretty much out there that I did go to Pax river. That was what is Pax river for the audience? I mean, it's short for Patuxent river. It's a, um, it's a, it's basically the base that, um, that, that they do experimentation. They've that it's kind of their research, uh, they, they, where they test, um, their aircraft. Yep. And so it was, it was a short drive per se. It was at least just a drive. We didn't have to fly there from DC. So this all came from a request that I had, that I had made, um, from the white house. And, and, and I could tell you that story if you're interested, but that's probably one of the more, it goes back to a vote that was happening, the one big, beautiful bill, um, or the working families tax cut act, whatever you want to call it. The day of that vote, we were kind of, um, you know, as a fiscal conservative, someone who's really cares about the debt and the deficit, I was worried about how, how we might impact that with, with extending these tax cuts. And so I was fighting for every kind of, um, pay forward that I could think cost cutting measures that I wanted to in order to pay for these tax cuts. So it was a long day of negotiations. I mean, a long, long day to the point where we were negotiating until 2:00 AM and, um, to this day, Trump calls our group, like the 3:00 AM caucus and not, not exactly in a lovingly way because, but at the end of the day, look, I didn't go up there to make everybody in DC happy. I went up there to try to save the country, but in the course of that really long day, the White House staff, which I don't readily have access to were there. And I said, in a moment of downtime, I said, Hey, you know, while I got you, can I ask you some questions? And I, and I, and I said, we we're getting nowhere in oversight. We were asked to investigate this topic of UAF UFOs and UAPs, and we're getting really nowhere. And where we go, we're, we're getting, you know, we're hitting a dead end. We're not able to have enough authority to get any information. And he said, well, what do you want? And I said, this has nothing to do with my vote, how I will vote on this bill. I just, while you're here, I want to vent at you. And, and he said, well, then what, what, what would you like? And I said, well, if you're asking, I would like, I'd like a brief, a full briefing, the same White House level briefing that the president gets on this topic. And he said, I mean, he said, which locations? And I started with Pax River, um, you know, Whiteman Air Force Base. I want to go to, um, I want to go to Area 51, Lake S4, all of that stuff. Have you been to all those places? No, no. And so the first location that was kind of a low hanging fruit was Pax River. Yeah. Um, but in general, uh, so I, I made that request, the guy that I made the request to, you know, White House staffer was grinning. And at that point, you know, this, there's still a stigma there still. And I thought, oh, he's making fun of me. Like, and, and I said, you know, why are you grinning? I mean, I'm sorry if this is, if you think this is funny. He said, no, he said, I want to go with you. This is awesome. And so he took that request back. And a week later, um, a liaison from the department of defense, now the department of war was in my office saying that he was told from the White House to make it happen. Wow. And so to me, that was remarkable. If you think about it, Barry Goldwater asked to go look at some of this stuff when, when he was Senator and was turned down. Yeah. He's in fact, he specifically said he asked Curtis LeMay to see the blue room at Wright-Patt and Curtis LeMay cussed him out of the room. I called Curtis LeMay and I said, General, uh, I know we have a room at Wright-Patterson where you put all this secret stuff. Could I go in there? I've never heard him get mad, but he got madder than hell at me. Cussed me out, said, don't ever ask me that question again. So I I'm, you know, we're having to work out the logistics, but that's my request is to see that. And I'm going to keep hounding at the administration and using whatever points of leverage that I can to get, to get in that room. And did you see a UFO there? Like a saucer and a hanger sort of thing? No, but if anything, what I was able to confirm is that some of the narrative that has been around what packs its role in the UFO or UAP like history. Um, I was able to actually be on site and see the facility that would have been that facility that they were going to transfer from Lockheed Martin to Bigelow airspace. And if, and I'll tell you, just being there and seeing it, um, if you were ever going to do a transfer, it would be logistically the perfect venue to do that. And did you see, anything exotic where you're like, what is that? I don't know what that is. I didn't see anything wildly exotic, but I saw some really cool stuff. Okay. Our government's doing some really cool things. Do you say anything more? Okay. Fair enough. Um, you know, Pax river is really interesting because in 2018, there's a Navy scientist named Salvatore Pais. I met Salvatore Pais there. That's cool. So he's amazing because, well, he, these patents, these Navy patents involve inertial mass reduction. High frequency gravitational waves and PZO electric, uh, superconductors room temperature superconductors, basically all the things that you would need to make a UFO fly the creme de la creme of exotic physics. Yes. Fascinating. Okay. So that's a part of the story. When we, when I made that request, they, once they greenlit that venue, we were very specific and say, we want to see this location. And then I said, I want to, I want to talk with Salvatore Pais. And, and so I was surprised that they made that happen. We were able to have a meeting with him and most of the people there, you could tell they do not, they, they didn't have a clue what, what I was going to ask. Um, we started, we started talking about his patents, going down a list of the patents asking, you know, have you, have you guys, you know, have there been actually, have these been put into any test form? And they admitted that one of them that they did, I believe it's the anti-gravitic one, but they weren't able to have any definitive results. Now, Salvatore Pais says that that was not built to his specifications, um, which means, and I, I'm not putting words in his mouth, but I picked up that had they built it exactly the way that he had, that he had designed it, they probably would have had a more definitive result. Whoa. But because, because it wasn't definitive, they apparently didn't move on with it. That's, that's what they said. Apparently he got kind of messed with too. Yeah. It's also seems like they have, they've put him in a, they've kind of put him in a different role. Um, and, um, and he seems very scared to talk to anybody. Every time I communicate with him, it's very, it's very cloak and dagger, you know, it's, and it's, uh, he's, he's often feel, feels kind of like, it's like a fearful vibe. Um, and there was even a moment I interviewed him and are like, it was really hard to get the interview we did in some like, you know, janky motel near Pax river. And one of the cameras broke down and the audio sucked. But, um, I got to a certain level of the science where he freaked out and he goes, Jesse, stop right there. Like, just stop asking. I know you're, you're curious, but like, and I was like, okay. And I kind of stood down. Let's get a little, so as you hit the Schwinger limit, break space time, what happens vis-a-vis this fifth dimension? We'll not, we'll not touch on that. Leave it there, Jesse. Trust me on that. Leave it there. We, we nerded out about the science a little bit and I'm just like a hobbyist on, you know, under, trying to understand quantum physics and that kind of stuff. But I could tell that the only person in the room that was tracking with, um, with, uh, Dr. Pice was, um, Dr. Kozlowski, um, John Kozlowski, who was there. And, um, and so he was tracking, I was barely keeping up, but most of everybody else that was in that room walked out of there, uh, not understanding anything that, uh, we were talking about. Interesting. Uh, yeah, well, that's cool that you have the instincts to know that Kozlowski at least is tracking, you know, uh, the content. Um, what do you think of him? So he's the new for, for context for people, uh, the all domain anomalies resolution office is kind of the modern project blue book. I'm not even saying that necessarily. as you know with the connotation of project blue book but it's the official pentagon investigation program it does have arrow has a bad connotation or a bad gets a bad rap because of this guy sean kirkpatrick who just completely dismissed all cases in certain cases he seemed like a bad actor and you know like he seemed like he was gathering info just to destroy it or something or not do anything with it but what do you think about john koslowski is the new director what do you think of him yeah he's he's a breath of fresh air compared to sean okay and i don't have anything against sean personally i just i was you know when you're a member of congress and you're going into a skiff and they're giving a long presentation and it feels like it's taking forever to get to the actual like nuts and bolts of what they're there for and then it then once they actually start presenting it was it was literally a slideshow of we looked into this and this was a debt like here's what it was right this was a balloon this is this is a flock of birds this is um you know a tent across the horizon and it and at some point you realize they're not going to show you anything that they haven't definitively like determined is not yeah does it make sense it makes total sense i even think it's funny to go back and look at the condon committee reports which you know ended up saying blue book was a waste of time the air force project was jailing hynek where they were looking at ufos and if you look at that report you actually look at the substance over 30 of cases were totally still unidentified same thing with aero so kirk patrick will come out and say you know we never found any evidence of extraterrestrials well first of all extraterrestrials is an analytical overlay it's a conclusion it doesn't mean you've found things that are really anomalous and worthy of further inquiry so like the language is like kind of manipulated in a very specific sort of way and then second of all if you actually look at the data again i think it's over 25 percent uh definitely over 25 percent maybe over 30 percent in aero's case i think might be like 34 percent of cases are still unidentified i'm not sure about the that percentage but definitely when we pushed them on it and said how many of these how many instead of showing us the ones that you have you know eliminated why don't you show us the ones that you're still researching and and that you haven't figured out yet the the mysterious ones and that we we that was not something that sean was going to do and so it wasn't until john came in that we were able to actually get that um get that request completed yeah i mean the stuff that's truly clearly of a variety and interesting and worthy of further investigation is the kind of nuclear connection stuff and like you have all these guys you know they're very often cleared to things and they're on what's called the prp program where they have to report if they're taking you know any sort of medication because they're around our nukes and they're all saying that our nuclear missiles are getting shut down and tampered with and they're flyovers and they're they're not lying and then we have to have some sensor data along with that and like what what is kirk patrick doing and then you find out that kirk patrick had you know worked with oak ridge and he won a brookhaven national labs award at the age of 17 and it's like oh you might be just compromised like you're you might be like on the payroll of like the national labs and these nuclear programs like that's that data set is obviously an important data set to look into and you can i don't know i'm about to have michael schirmer on who's you know part of this uap white house advisory panel and he's a skeptic and i'm going to debate him and i don't i don't think the skeptics have anything to say about that data so i don't think neil degrasse tyson could say anything about that i mean it's clearly interesting it is i and i'm interested to see how this new uap group is formed and and what they're how how they're going to function i've had uh then the scientific advisory group uh the avi lobe is leading yeah what do you think of that whole thing um i i was hoping that there would be some more advanced like theoretical physicists yeah i think having some people that are like studying particle physics would be would be helpful yeah on that but i'm sure that they're still fleshing it out hopefully that hopefully they'll add some more talent to that group i think what's really interesting is that they're still fleshing it out to that group i think what's really interesting is that they're still fleshing it out and they're they've added some people that are like biologists or people that are studying gene genetics that's fascinating yeah what are you trying to say why why is that irrelevant you know i mean if they're if they feel the need to like to have people on the team that that do that that means that there may be something that they know that they're gonna have to research yeah i'm saying what are what are they trying to say by you know appointing those people with those sorts of specialties and you i think you had lauren bobert um you know another congressman uh asked about like hybrids do you remember this i don't remember when she asked about it i'm sure she did she asked about hybrids and then it was just a really weird moment in the congressional testimony there are rumors that have come up to the hill um of a secretive project within the department of defense involving uh the manipulation of human genetics with what is described as non-human genetic material potentially for the enhancement of human capabilities hybrids are any of you familiar with that yes or no no man i am not ma'am i'm not no ma'am and i think i think matt gates has made a couple of statements to this he did he absolutely did he said that there was a some of a military brass person he didn't describe their rank or anything but that came into his office and told him about about hybrids i had someone come and brief me who was in a military uniform worked for the united states army that was briefing me on the locations of hybrid breeding programs where captured aliens were breeding with humans to create some hybrid race that could engage in intergalactic communication how do we parse any of this i mean you have you know uh timber shed you know from tennessee as well saying that we have five hot spots and you know under the oceans we have a higher propensity of sightings around these five or six i believe deep area deep water areas and he's of course i want to be clear timber shed was told this and that's what he's saying he was told this but like it seems like they're a bunch of guys running around talking to congressmen like yourselves and saying these really wild things and then the congressmen are you know they're just relaying what was said to them but you you end up with this sort of like everything is everything like what's what's going on so i try to be really cautious whenever i'm being asked about things that and and say this is only i don't necessarily believe this i don't have any evidence of this but this is what was told to me yes you always do that and and it's and you have to do that because there's some really crazy things that are said and oftentimes when those people are in my office i i will jump to okay where are the receipts like what what evidence do you have do you have any you know anything whatsoever what's the craziest thing that's ever been told to you leave you can leave the person totally anonymous when we first started selling merchandise at americanalchemymerch.com we had no idea how complicated and annoying selling merch could be shopify made it simple to build a story that actually feels authentic to us which matters when you're operating in a niche like alternative tech ufos fringe science and all the other stuff we cover shopify's ai tools help write descriptions organize products even clean up photos in our case it allowed us to focus on what matters and what we care about like design and brand vision and building the best custom merch line possible with the coolest clothing there is like our traditional japanese fukushima t-shirt and our cowboy ufot sign up now for your one dollar per month trial and start today at shopify.com slash jesse again that's shopify.com slash jesse j-e-s-s-e one dollar to try shopify which is the state-of-the-art solution in ebay e-commerce today thank you so much to shopify for sponsoring today's episode when you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work use indeed sponsor jobs it gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills certifications and more spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes listeners of this show will get a 75 sponsor job credit at indeed.com slash podcast that's indeed.com slash podcast terms and conditions apply need a hiring hero this is a job for indeed sponsored jobs this episode is brought to you by accenture when your advertising operations fall out of sync everything else follows spotify and accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales using automation analytics and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business the result less time spent on operations more time connecting brands and businesses and more time connecting brands and businesses and more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most learn more at accenture.com spotify What's the craziest thing that's ever been told to you? Well, I don't want to insult people. Okay, yeah, that's fair enough. When I say crazy, I mean like wild as far as its impact. I think that when we get into the whole discussion about people using consciousness to like call in UAPs or to communicate, when I talk to people that are saying that they receive a download or they receive messages mentally, look, I don't say that these people are complete liars. I think most of the people that are talking to me absolutely believe what they're saying. I just have not, oftentimes they're lacking the evidence, the proof. Have you ever said, well, why don't you take me out to the field and we'll call something in or something like that? You did do that. I did, yes. And what happened? So one night, there was a group, and I think it was like right after a hearing or something like that. There was a group of people that were all texting me. I mean, all these people that I've made contact with within the UAP community, they were all texting me, hey, what are you doing tonight? And finally, I just said, let's meet at this restaurant. And I just sent it to all of these people. And so just put together a random group of people. And one of them was Chris Bledsoe. Okay. And I'd never met him before. People in the group said, they explained, and he explained what, that he was able to do that. And so I had been in a meeting with another group that Greer had brought. And I had asked the same question. So we were actually at dinner and I had asked that question. They said, well, this is not the best place to do that here in Washington, D.C. If you come out to this property, maybe we could make that happen. So, the answer was no at that point. But when I asked Chris Bledsoe, the way I asked was, you say this, you know, this happens all the time. Where does it happen? And he said, what do you mean? I go like over, over the ocean, over water. Is it, does it have to be a lake involved? And he, and he said, no, pretty much anywhere. And I said, like in the, in the country or in a city. And he said, no, pretty much anywhere. I said, what about here? What about right now? How about tonight after dinner? And he, and he agreed to do it. So we went out on the Capitol, we went to the lawn and, and he did his thing. And I kind of just politely, quietly sat and waited. And, and, and it was getting late into the evening. And eventually after a while, they, it didn't, you know, nothing happened. And so I just said, guys, I'm going, I got to get, I got to go to bed. So, you know, I, I don't, I'm not trying to say that to, to say anything negative about him. I'm just saying that, yeah, there have been moments where I've had that opportunity. And I said, let's, let's do it. Let's do it right now. Now they apparently went back to the same spot a few weeks later and did the exact same thing without me there. And, and, and then they were able to film dots in the sky that were moving. So, um, Congressman, you're ruining it. I don't know. I'm just kidding. You're hurting the signal. Right. I, and that was kind of the impression that, that they'd given me is that I was such a skeptic and a doubter that I was kind of spoiling this, uh, the, the, does that make, if that makes sense. it does, but I think you gotta, you gotta be a skeptic, you know, or at least agnostic. Have you, have you seen a UFO in the sky? No. At any point in your life? Okay. No. I would love to. Yeah. Yeah. So if you are a hybrid and you're, and you see this video and you've got one, you got a UAP, I come into my office, come, come visit me. I'd be happy to meet you. What's the thing that you've heard in one of these kind of, in one of these kind of contexts of people hitting you up, they say they have information that is the combination of kind of the most interesting and impactful, but seemingly like maybe there's some, there's some evidence for it. Um, I, I would say the most remarkable thing that happened was you had this transition with, you know, and I think Tulsi did a great job setting up what was called the dig, the direct director's initiative group. And, and she had these teams that are investigating, several things, one of them being UFOs, UAPs. And I think that that was probably one of the lower priorities of the group, but they, they were doing that research and they really didn't dedicate a lot of resources to it. They had one guy basically. And I think he got discouraged pretty quickly. Um, or not quick. He actually, he really threw himself into it for a few years and they got discouraged. And, and then, um, as he was transitioning out, I, they had brought me in, briefed me about, about what they had accomplished. And then a few months later, they said, sir, we need to bring you back in. They actually reached out to me and said, we would like for you to come back in and we want to brief you. Um, cause things have changed. So they brought me in and they told me about the event that happened in the, in the Western United States. Uh, people from Tulsi's team were actually on site for this. It was at one of our, one of our, um, U S military installations. They, there was people from the intelligence community. They're senior intelligence officials. And they gave me that in a briefing. I think I was the first elected official to get that briefing. And so I, and they said, sir, we, we're pretty much approached this topic the same way that you have very skeptical. And, uh, but we, but we feel like we have a job to go out and investigate this. And this, this, um, event has, has completely changed everything because now we, we know that there is something there. We just don't know what it is. And you can read about it in the recent releases. It's, it's kind of buried at the end. Oh, ironically. So, so what if we can talk about it now? Yeah. So I can talk about it now for the longest time. I couldn't talk about it. Yeah. But, but it's in that release. It describes from their perspective, the intelligence people that were there and there's two different reports. I can't say which. Okay. So that wasn't, that wasn't really, I think, I think they don't want to have another area 51 where they have people like storming. Sure. Yeah. Um, the location, but it was at the end of the day, what they have released is that pretty much what the narrative that they told me that they, that they were out there. Um, they were, they were there because there had been previous reports. So they were just like, they were on site. They were going around looking at any kind of debris that they saw or anything that was out in the, in the desert. And the, they had landed a helicopter and they got a call that their, the radar had picked up several UA UAPs. So they jump in the helicopter, they go to the location and what they interact with are basically glowing orbs. Those orbs that have been described, you know, whether they're called plasmoids, whatever you want to call them, the they're like three meters in diameter, sometimes smaller, sometimes bigger. And they have different shades of color that they glow in, but they are some type of spherical nebula. what's described as like a ball of plasma what would what you would one would think a ball of plasma would look like i don't think anybody's ever touched one to know that it's like super heated material or anything but it it uh it definitely was messing with the helicopter when it got there they were they were uh they operated intelligently and then at one point they there were some f-16s that were scrambled these things appeared to like shoot up and chase or follow the f-16s so when you're here when i'm imagine you're me you're sitting in the office of the director of national intelligence in a skiff and they're briefing you with firsthand you know accounts from people that were there and uh and and they said sir this this has brought this investigation from being priority number 500 and something to top 10 priorities for this for this government to figure out what's going on fascinating wow yeah it's um you know grush just did this you know press conference in dc that i know you were at and he was asked about like the various types of life you know morphologies the body types that sort of thing and he gets into this idea of sentient plasmoid life how many species are you aware of i certainly don't have the compendium it's a continuum from uh corporeal bipedal type life to you know what i would like sentient plasmoid life but there are there are several that the u.s government is aware and uh you know that does seem to be like this this sort of recurring theme that seems to me of a different variety than like a saucer and a hanger like whatever bobbles are worked on right do you have a good i think one of the things in this space that's like missing is like categories taxonomy the taxonomy of yeah because it's just there's so much and there's so many disparate things likely do you have a sense of that sort of taxonomy do you have like a map of this stuff well certainly you hear about the different things that you often see whether it's the triangles or the the saucers right or the or the orbs i'm not i don't know that they're they they may be congruent with each other for example maybe they you see the plasma sphere before the orb or the saucer comes through it maybe it's a way of it you know breaking the normal laws of physics or what we would describe as normal Yeah, maybe. Yeah, that's really interesting. It's like what Skywatcher, which was kind of feels like almost like a public facing version of what the legacy program was doing, which was like calling these things in and then and then causing them to kind of materialize. It almost feels like you're drawing this sentient plasma life form into reality. And this is again, we're in very speculative territory here. But like, yeah, you hear things like that time and time again. It is wild. And the fact that those what's described as those plasma lights, really, if you go back throughout history, people describe those. They seem to appear even in ancient texts, right? Absolutely. And that is the thing that's very definitive. So if you look at the early history in the 40s of the U.S.'s relationship to the topic, you have, you know, Roswell, of course, you have the D.C. flyover. In 47, when the federal government starts to take this seriously, you have Nathan Twining, who is a general who is head of Air Material Command, you know, responsible for all aircraft development for the Air Force. He's saying these things are, you know, neither visionary nor fictitious. And so so so they start. It's hard to formally look into it. And they create a project in the Air Force called Project Twinkle. And they have this guy, Lincoln LaPaz, who's a meteor expert at the University of New Mexico. And he starts to track all these fireballs, these green fireballs, which are tracking the plumes of nuclear blasts after, you know, atomic tests. And they seem to be all over nuclear sites all over the country. And there are FBI documents to this effect. There are thousands of documents between. You know, 45 and 54 when you had the U-2 spy plane. So it's like there's something going on and it's not our own recon craft. And they seem to be intelligently controlled. They do. And that's the way that these intelligence officials described it. And it freaked them out to the point where they needed to ramp up their investigation. They've added more resources, more people. They've they've they've elevated it beyond ODNI. It's now a White House led operation. And they're pulling in all these different agencies, whether it's Department of Energy, CIA. This is something that they're taking very seriously. And they said when I said in that meeting, I said, you know, you guys saw it. You saw it firsthand. Surely you have scientists that are kind of working on this. They said, no, we don't. And I said, OK, you you've got to have somebody. You've got to have a team. I said, do you have any idea what these things are? And they assured me that they have no. Freaking idea what these what these plasmoid type objects are. It's so crazy. There's a there's an author named Robert Temple, and he wrote a book called The New Science of Heaven. And it's amazing. It kind of reconciles metaphysics with physics, but it's specifically plasma physics. And yeah, it's fascinating. And it talks about atomic matter, you know, what we see material in the world as the exception to the rule in the universe that really it's 90%. This ambient plasma. And actually, if you think about it, we have four energy states of all matter, right? You have, you know, a solid liquid gas plasma, and it's just about the energy, you know, inserted into each thing that allows you to engage in these sort of phase transitions. So why wouldn't if we were surrounded by ambient plasma, why wouldn't you be able to draw out any of that plasma back into the material world? And you can literally. Yeah, go back and forth with, you know, any of your favorite AI, you know, chat GPT, and it'll it'll say you can in certain instances. So you theoretically you can. So yeah, it's very, it's very, it's very interesting. And he talks about these, these Kordelovsky clouds, these clouds of plasma that exist in Lagrangian points between Earth and the sun. And those might be responsible for these long delay echo transmission. Really? In the 1920s. Yeah. Is there a Lagrangian point between the moon and the Earth? There is one, right? There is. And that's the Kordelovsky clouds are actually the Lagrangian point between the moon and the Earth. I misspoke. Because that's where apparent that's where we're racing to occupy. Whoa, no way. Yeah, no, we are. I know this. We are racing as the United States government to occupy that space and orbit. You're freaking me out because he literally just wrote this research piece. He wrote this paper on which follows up on the new science of heaven, his book about how so in the 20s, they're at the kind of the dawn of the radio age. They're sending out all these transmissions and they would get the same transmission back and they'd freak out. They'd be like, why are we getting the same thing we just sent out? It's called a long delay echo is this very weird phenomena. And if you if you actually watch Carl Sagan's contact, you know, Robert Zemeckis is amazing movie. You see that the first message we get back is. Hitler speak and he's speaking. Oh, and it's so this is this really unfortunate thing. Yeah. Where you're like, why are we hearing Hitler? And it's kind of, I think, paying homage to this long delay echo thing where it's like mirroring us. And if you think about people's experience with a lot of these sort of plasmoid objects, it's like with Jake Barber, like he locks on to the craft and there's this sort of consciousness mirroring thing. And so Robert Temple wrote this kind of follow up paper, research paper about these questions. Kordelovsky clouds, which might be conscious. And so that's fascinating. So we're racing to go there now. We are because of the it's it's a look. Apparently, it's a very strategic location. And and it's super critical that we get there and that we occupy that space before China does. That might be disclosure because that almost I wonder if whatever maybe maybe the maybe the orbs coming to these nuclear sites and stuff. Maybe they're like. Like emissaries of this sort of, you know, Kordelovsky cloud. If you were to leave something to control or to as an artifact or a relic or something to affect some future civilization or affect a civilization you've departed from, you would put it in a Lagrangian point. That is where you would put it. Right. Because it would it's the place where there is really no grab there. The orbit, the gravitational orbit of the neutralizes itself. And the moon are both neutralized. Exactly. So you're stuck there. So that would be that would be where you would put it. Maybe to, you know, if you wanted to leave some sort of remnant or it is fascinating. You know, I did. I do know Jake Barber and I met him. I reached out to Jake through through other people, through David and other people. And then eventually he he agreed to meet with me. And so I took a trip down to California, met with Jake. An interesting story there is that we we met at a private airport. In in Burbank. And it was just me waiting for for Jake to arrive. And it was Jack Black. No way. Yeah. Why was Jack Black there? He was there to take a private flight up somewhere. So randomly. Randomly. And and so. Jake shows up and he goes, you know, Jack Black. And I go, no. And he goes, let's just say hello. We went over and said hello to Jack Black. And. And he and we were just making small talk and he said, so what do you guys he told us what he was doing. And he said, what are you guys doing? And Jake said, well, we're just going to we're going to fly over the Black Desert here. And Jack goes, why in the world would you do that? And he goes, well, this is a congressman. And Jack Black goes, hello, congressman. That's awesome. And then he said, we're going to fly and go look at some super secret stuff. And Jack Black's. Jaw drops. Did he say take me? Yeah, though he had he had it. Otherwise, I don't he might have wanted to go with us. It seemed like he would have wanted to go with us. But that was one of the neatest moments. To this day, if I meet a child like or like if somebody like somebody with kids, if we if we get talking like in my Sunday school class, I teach these fifth graders at church and they don't know who I am. And that's awesome. That's why I do it, because they don't really know. Yeah. But if I ever want any kind of cred, street cred, I get out my selfie with Jack Black. That's awesome. That's so cool. But no, Jake was a great individual and somebody that I is kind of like Grush. Like, I truly think he genuinely had his his experiences. And and that's, you know, this life, these last few years have been wild to be able to say I went out, flew with a former, you know, special forces guy. You know, over the Black Desert, looked at some military locations, installations. We flew over one of the Lockheed Martin facilities, and it was wild because it's this kind of bowl shaped thing in the ground and there's a huge hangar door. It's clearly an underground structure and all these white vans come racing out as we're as we're flying, circling this thing. And they all just kind of post up and are watching us as we're circling. They're circling over it. That's wild. And it's not restricted because it's so kind of secret that they don't want to restrict it. Right. Restricting it would somehow identify it or something. Yeah. Fascinating. Wow. Whoa. Michael Herrera, who's another UFO whistleblower. He, I believe, has an interesting story where Jake Barber, after getting into contact with him at this Greer event, takes him underground to this Edwards Air Force Base and possibly shows him some sort of UFO or craft. Did you experience anything like that? No, no. I wish Jake had done that, but I did not have the Michael Herrera experience. Okay, okay. Maybe next time. But Jake is one of those guys where some of this stuff on first glance seems beyond belief, but the longer time goes, his stuff keeps just getting proven out. It does. He comes out a year and a half ago or something, and he's talking about psionic assets getting rounded up in sometimes some not-so-ethical ways. Right. Right. Kind of human cargo, and sometimes from disaster zones around the world, and they're hired by these black aerospace programs that are really, there's so much plausible deniability between these outfits and actually the contractors that they're completely invisible. Right. And he was kind of implying that he basically was one of these kind of hidden hands, and that these psionic operators get used to call in craft. And then they land. And it's just wild. You think that that's crazy, right? You think that that's this insane thing. And then you've got Matt Gaetz, for example. I don't know if you know about this. He was doing a Twitter space, and he's telling about one of his constituents who came into his office saying something very similar. How in the hell do you get the humans and they say, oh no, it is natural disasters. They said, actually, sadly, the unaccompanied miner craft. Crisis and the caravans that just had like kind of unaccountable swaths of humans. Which is people getting rounded up in sort of disaster zones when you don't know if they're going to go missing. And it's really wild. And then, you know, Jake Barber also wrote a book called Sentinels of Ether, which was so redacted by the, you know, the Pentagon censored it. It's supposedly a fiction book. It's a fiction book, but it's not a fiction book. Seven pages of the 20, which are just the 10% of the whole book. Get blacked out, get censored and, and, and, and are deemed classified. So he's one of these guys where I think a lot of what he's saying is pretty, pretty spot on and on the target. Yeah, he, I think he's, he's definitely look and maybe I'm just naive, but whenever I'm talking to Jake, when I'm talking to these people, I feel like they're not, they're not trying to be deceptive. Yeah. If anything. So like to me, Jake had all the reason in the world to not talk. About the psychological impact that he had. I mean, in fact, people told him if you want to be, you know, if you want to be taken credibly, don't, don't bring up the emotional feeling that you had. Right. When he was, when he described being in the helicopter while he's carrying, what was the, I think he described as an egg. Yeah. I think the emotional reaction was to the eight gone craft, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. So I think he had all the reason in the world to not, to not go. Into that. And yet he felt compelled that that's, that he had to say that. To me, that's an indication to somebody who, who, who really feels strongly passionately there. He's not doing it for financial gain. That's right. And look, I've met two people that claim to have interacted with the craft, him and Bob Lazar, and they both say they experience emotional and ominous feelings around them. And then the psionic operators I've met, you know, how to systematically. I met with a third one that you have not mentioned. I've said the same thing. Okay. And, and, and. So he's not public and he probably will never go public, but he served in special forces, was in, he was, he was in the field and was brought into a room and, and what he describes as a hovering black. Again, it's, it appears like it's three dimensional or three meters in diameter, but this thing was blacker than black sphere that was floating. And it just gave this sensation. It gave him a sense of just complete evil and darkness is the way he described it. Whoa. He felt ill just being around it. He felt like there was just something really bad about it and didn't, didn't want to go anywhere near it. And was this at an aerospace facility or? Um, it was, it was overseas. It was overseas. And you can imagine, you know, he's working during the time period in which we were in war. So you can imagine it's, it's one of those locations, whether it's Iraq or Afghanistan. Whoa. I don't know, but it was in U S possession or in. Yeah. And so we had captured it there. Or, or that we, it was a tech that we have. I don't know. It was maybe, maybe actually human technology or do you, or you think genuinely non-human? He absolutely knew that it was either derived from alien tech or that it was, um, that it was captured. It was a blacker than black sphere. That makes me think of the Lazar thing where he has his sort of, you know, a reactor. And it can create this almost little mini black hole or something that's blacker than black. And then rotated the emitter. I don't know if it was another direction or more of the same way, but it made a little black ball in the air where no light was a sky escaping, looking like a little black hole. But no, you could just tell there was no light at the focal point, right in the air. It was just a dark area. So there it's affecting light, but it wasn't in the candle test before that. So it, it, it's a really unusual. Huh? That's fascinating. And he had just a really bad feeling about it. Anything else? That individual is very cloak and dagger. Very, very difficult to get in front was very difficult. Really, whenever I talked with him, he, he was warning me that, that this, uh, he was warning me about the dangers of the physical dangers of getting involved in this, in this topic. What do you make of that? And do you think it's really dangerous? Legend has it that in 1943, the Navy tried to teleport a ship and what's known as the Philadelphia experiment and it worked sorta, it disappeared, reappeared, and then half the crew got atomically fused into the ship's walls. Others just vanished. No one was where they were supposed to be. Talk about a breakdown in communication. You know what that sounds like? Your team before you had quo this year, upgrade your system to a workspace that keeps your team from shattering across dimensions. You've ever tried to schedule a meeting across five time zones and six different platforms. You know, the horror of losing people to the ether. That's why today's episode is brought to you by quo spelled Q U O the business communication system built. So you never miss a call. Your entire team can handle calls and texts. From one shared number. So no more missed messages or dropped conversations. Everyone sees the full thread replies are faster and customers actually feel taken care of. It's the number one rated business phone system on G2, which is the premier place where you review these sort of workspace applications. It has over 3000 reviews there and more than 90,000 businesses rely on it to stay connected. So it has an amazing track record. No vanishing. No failure. No fusing into calendars. Just your team fully entangled and synced across time zones, timelines, and even caffeine levels. Money is on the line. Always say hello with quo. Try quo for free. Plus get 20% off your first six months. When you go to quo.com slash Jesse, that's Q U O dot com slash Jesse. As you know, we have a new starship course. We have a healthcare center on board. Ask what? My new favorite. My favorite product in it is iris stores. Illumina face mask. This mask is like a med bed for your face. It's lightweight, super convenient, cordless, and runs red, blue, and infrared light therapy all at once. The same type of technology NASA studied for skin healing in space. It's safe for your eyes too. So you don't have to sit there like a statue. You can live your life. I've definitely had a few late nights reading about magnetic pole shifts, but with this mask, I look like I actually slept. Did I? That's debatable. It's warm, wireless, convenient, and makes your skin feel super soft. And iris stores kicking off their summer savings with some very big discounts. Right now, you can get the elite plus Illumina face mask bundle at an exclusive deal when you use code Jesse at iris store.com. That's Jesse, J E S S E at iris store.com. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Need a hiring hero? When you're advertising, operations fall out of sync, everything else follows spotify and accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales using automation analytics and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business the result less time spent on operations more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most learn more at accenture.com spotify I you know you've got some people that I think will dramatize it and say you know my life is in danger and I think to try to get an appeal I I don't live my life that way I don't live my life in a way in which I'm looking over my shoulder I feel like if if it's my time and God's ready to take me home then that's his timing it's always in his timing so I'm just going to do what I'm going to do until and until that happens and not worry about you know what I'm going to do until that happens and not worry about you know what I'm going to do until that happens and not worry about you know what I'm going to do until that happens and not worry about you know what I'm going to do until that happens and not worry about it but I mean we've you know I've had more death threats from unions whenever I was trying to pass right to work legislation that I have from uh people on this topic yeah the topic so it's so out there um sometimes it feels safer than politics which is like the most heated sort of sort of thing it's like you know like uh I sometimes you know I think Tucker Carlson's probably in more danger than me you know doing you know I think Tucker Carlson's probably in more danger than me doing what I'm but at other times I'm like I get a little spooked and I'm like this is I don't know if you know I should be yeah talking about this or but when I talk to people like David Grush and and Jake Barber and some of these other guys and the the individual that I mentioned and they they all kind of seem to warn about the same thing um particularly from the private sector that there's certain uh private sector companies that they that they you know claim have that they have some nefarious actors that will do kinetic activity in other words like a wet works type type arm that that's kind of disturbing to hear super disturbing uh speaking of which both Grush and Jake Barber knew Matthew Sullivan right who was uh found dead two weeks before he was supposed to testify before congress um the rumors are and I just had Jeremy I don't in a in a hearing as much as I come into come to to speak to some members in a skiff or in like maybe even in an office that's right yeah so privately you know give give his information which is the precursor to coming before in a in a public hearing sure yeah and uh I've heard that maybe he had some firsthand experience with craft that's what I was told too okay that he was he was in the legacy program had firsthand experience with craft um and that when I first met Grush he was shaken by the um the Matthew's death and really wanted I mean if anything he was trying to get my help in trying to get that exposed and he had submitted that to um the office I think is the office of inspector general they said that it's warranted and credible that it should be investigated and we I took we took that information we've composed a committee only to later we we we had been told that it had been sent later we found out that it had never been received what no it had not been received by the FBI and that was during the Biden administration so it may be that it was lost in transition or something but we had to resubmit that letter so is the FBI now investigating Matthew Sullivan's I don't I don't know if they have the I don't know the status of that investigation but I believe that they are I strongly believe that they are because they've they've indicated that they won't talk about an active investigation which which is kind of the tell that they are actively investigating I would hope they are um did you ever interact with Matthew yourself I did not okay yeah do you do you have a sense of kind of various configurations or geometries of crafts you know people think of the proverbial flying saucer do you think it's just that do you think you mentioned a few others you know earlier triangle I mean you lose book um describes it as though the reason why those those shapes seem to make sense is that you've got some kind of antigravity device like if you have a smaller thing that creates a bubble and a gravity bubble then that would naturally fit at an orb or a disc right and then then if you if you have two then it would look something like a tic-tac if you have two of them right or a tube and then if you have three it's a triangle that's that's in lose book but that but I have I'd have no evidence that that's the case only from what I've heard from other people lose obviously very interesting character he's you can't say he's not responsible for a lot of modern disclosure you know he helped get that New York Times article published in 2017 uh through Leslie Kane and he was you know in charge of OSAP uh lately you know this is sort of thanks to people like UAP Gerb people have been saying that he's actually you know maybe more implicated in legacy U.F.A. program activities I think Ross Coulthart said that as well um and if you even watch him in front of Congress you know uh in September of 24 he's saying I can't confirm or deny being read into you know Immaculate Constellation um Mr. Elizondo were you read into the Immaculate Constellation program I would not be authorized to confirm nor deny the existence of any ongoing or past program especially as it relates to a special access program either by name or trigraph the implication being that maybe he was read in you know I interviewed him and you know it often feels like he's sitting on a lot more information than he can say he'll self-admit that yeah I think he is and I think yeah to your point I think that he he does not deny that I think that Lou when I I feel like Lou wants to tell you everything but he also is a patriot and he's going to abide by his non-disclosure agreement yeah and so he will he will do go through dobster which is that that process where it allows them to say things um whether they'll try to put things in the form of a book form that see what what can be released and then they can they know what they can talk about after that that process is over they're constantly putting things through dobster to see what will shake loose that they can talk about and so i feel like he is someone who who is going to be loyal to his oath to the country but he wants to get the truth out as much as he possibly can yeah and our mutual friend uap gerb is a great ufo content creator who's uh just extremely detailed on the kind of mapping the legacy program he kind of notes that um you know intelligence support activity uh and gray fox which do recon in super sensitive situations in areas before jsoc does but it's part of joint special operations command you know that lou was a part of that and um so yeah interesting connections there and then you get you ask this sort of meta question which is why in 2017 did the program say maybe it's time to out itself or like did you know is it these elements of the program that are like this isn't being run well and right and so like we have to come out and we have to reform this get a certain amount of information a certain amount of information out there or like what yeah i think it was their attempt of trying to compartmentalize what they could release without giving away our good tech right the things that we are technology and so i think that they saw that there's there's there's enough um and and that's we have seen that ourselves like i get people from that are active military personnel that come to me as a member of congress and and have videos that they'll show me they'll they'll have information which which helps us identify what we should be asking where you know what we should be sending letters about and i think that they acknowledge that there is if they don't if they don't start managing the the release of information what can be released and what shouldn't be that it was the dam was going to break that's my that's that's just my best guess yeah so they're trying to get in front of what they know is going to leak ultimately anyways and sort of manage how it comes out and in sure it's not this sort of catastrophic thing that's my best guess yeah yeah no i think it's a good guess um along the lines of you know we were just talking about matthew sullivan you have this sort of missing scientists narrative generally we earlier we were talking about amy eskridge and ning li uh neil mccaslin is a general who is extremely high up i believe he was on the special access program oversight committee which lou was as well and so he was cleared to you know more things than the president probably and was you know head of the afrl at wright patterson the air force research laboratory uh and he was the source for a lot of tom delong's kind of you know disclosures and his you know quote unquote fiction books you know secret machines um he went super mysteriously missing yeah uh what do you think about that case to me that's whether we've got to close that loop i mean this is a person who's walking around with a gun and he's got a gun and with some of our nation's most important secrets i think it's important that we identify what happened to him yes um whether there's a body in the desert they need to go they need to go find a body find the body um Or find out if he decided to go to Cabo and just disappear. I don't know. But at the end of the day, we need to find out what happened to this individual. I know he was on my list of people to talk to. I know that David Grush had sent someone to interview General McCaslin and was not able to get a whole lot out of him. But I think McCaslin knew that we were definitely making inquiries trying to set up something to talk to him. Well, that's weird that, you know, it's like, you know, a week or so after Trump, you know, and Pete Hegseth are saying we're going to officially look into this stuff. Here's a guy who's cleared to everything. He's publicly associated with Tom DeLonge and sort of some of these, you know, disclosures. And then you're looking into meeting him. And then he just disappears entirely. Yeah. It's a strange fact pattern. And then he leaves his phone. Right. And everything. He leaves everything. But he takes a gun. Well. Well. But they don't know that he took a gun. OK. But one gun was missing. Maybe missing. That's it's not confirmed. OK. You really read through the reports. But there's also no no ring camera footage, no footage of him. It felt to me felt a little premeditated. Yeah. Well, the fact that the latest information is he went to REI and purchased a medical kit, like a travel, like a backpack. What you would take on a long hike, like some kind of medical. Oh, wow. So why? If you're going to go. If you're going to go kill yourself in the desert, why would you take a medical kit? You wouldn't. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think he he knew what he was getting himself into. And then. Yeah, I feel I feel awkward bringing this up. But his his wife, you know, made this call and apparently he was not doing well, you know, towards this. I think he was feeling a little anxious and like, you know, not in the greatest health. And so she says that to 9-1-1. And this call is like now, you know, out there. But. She then follows up on Twitter and she says, like, you know, maybe the best explanation for this is an alien having, you know, abducted him from a mothership, although no mothership has been found in the local area. That's strange. It is. It's strange. And you're asking for speculation when you say that. It's weird. That's not a normal state. It's not. And I guess people grieve in different ways. And maybe. But her grieving is one of the most different ways I've ever seen someone grieve. Yes. Over the loss of their loved one. So I can't I can't explain. But to your point, I agree. Her her response has been very unusual. Definitely unusual. Speaking of unusual, you had going viral all over Twitter, this idea of this meeting of these high level intelligence people who seem to know more about the UFO issue than people, you know, than than people on the civilian side. And they are meeting with these. Pastors and religious leaders across the country and convening them and telling them to prepare their their churches. They wanted to have a meeting, an urgent meeting where, again, we go into this Airbnb. We have to turn our phones on airplane mode. There's no recording of the meeting. But ultimately, the purpose of it was disclosure is coming quickly. And these people who are working in government agencies are pleading with pastors. They're pleading, please prepare your people. So. That they are not deceived by what is coming. And you were somehow thrown into this whole conversation. Do you want to talk about this? That's a that's an that was that's an interesting side part of this whole journey. It seems like every time you have this conversation about UFOs and UAPs, it always kind of brings up the question of spirituality or, you know, are these angels? Are these people? Some people say they're all demons, that kind of thing. But it. Inevitably always comes up. I don't know how to explain this, but there is a group of people and I don't even really know what they who they really work for, but they are very clandestine. They are former special forces, former military intelligence and are working for somebody in the private who who has given them the ability to investigate this as a side task. That's my best guess. Because you'll never get out of them who they really work for. They they seem to be good actors because whenever I talked with them, they kind of bumped me is the best way to describe it in Washington, D.C. With it at a different meeting. The person that bumped me later on that night pulled me aside and said, hey, my name is not really X, Y, Z. And and I want to. But I really am looking out for. And I want to and I can tell you that these some of these people that we've been talking to, you probably shouldn't be trusting, fully trusting. And I wanted to see if you want to sit down and talk any any he related with me a shared faith that we both are Christians. We both love Jesus. And and so and he was I could, you know, I could tell that he was genuine, absolutely genuine. And that he wasn't making that part. Sure. So. I've you know, at the end of the day, I'll talk to most anybody. And I was open to talking with him and meeting with other people. It turned out that it was a fairly organized, well-funded operation of guys that are all, you know, of Christian faith who have a lot of concerns about some of the activity that's going on. And they they wanted to kind of, you know, kind of. Maintain a contact, maintain a connection. They've I would say this group has been extremely helpful to me. Extremely helpful. How so? They brought people, whether they're whistleblowers to me, they brought tips, they brought, you know, lots of really good information. So I don't feel like they have my personal interaction with this group is that they they're they're actually they're on my side. They're they want to be extremely helpful and they're very transparent other than that. They won't talk about their their funding. What do they do day to day? Are they working with UFO stuff or. I don't. I it sounds to me like they've got a they've got a contract to investigate a broader topic and that UAPs are part of that. What's the broader topic? Could be, you know, incursions on the United States. Like drone incursions, things like that. So and I I'm that's just my makeup. I don't know exactly just from having conversations with them. They also seem to be investigating human trafficking quite a bit. So in any event, in the course of our conversations that came up that, you know, one of these individuals is is is actually a chaplain, if you will. And he. I. I said, you know, you you should. This topic really the church needs to be prepared for this and we need to have a conversation because a lot a lot of people are going off on very wild tangents and this and I my view is that this doesn't this absolutely actually does not reject the biblical worldview. If anything, the more that I look into it, the more it really strengthens my faith and more really strengthens it makes. It takes the story of the Bible, if you take this into into context, right? If it is true, it can take the story, the narrative, the biblical narrative and put it on it on an epic scale, like a universal scale, right? Like this is a galactic story of the creator of the entire universe, creating all of these, you know, planets, all these and it does make sense that there would be much more out there. There's a reason why. There's all this space. There's got to be other things out there and that if but of all the places chooses this location and this people and this species to want to commune with that that this God says, I want to create my image is going to be this this being this human is going to be my basically my representation to this whole universe. So to me, it makes it takes that story and it makes it puts it on a grander scale and explains potentially why. If there's if there's other beings, Timothy Albarino, I think, has probably done some of the best thought work on this and and and so I would highly recommend people pick up his book birthright because it seems to me it's a very logical way for a Christian to approach this way. Anyway, these these individuals were also kind of in the same vein and they decided they were going to put together a group of pastors kind of. Slowly bring them into this conversation, see where they are and and they invited me to that event. I said I couldn't make it, but I would be happy to be on a phone call. And so they brought me in. I said what I basically what I've just said to you, which is that look, it's important that we don't have that we don't really just completely ignore this as a topic. If anything, if something does happen, it doesn't really shake. It shouldn't shake your worldview at all. And I kind of explain how that didn't shake my worldview. And then they said, so then later on, these pastors started talking about this experience and they, some of them put words in my mouth, if you will, saying that I said, what's going to happen. I think one of the pastors later on came out and apologized and said, Eric Burleson did not say this. I believe this. But when I was saying it, I should have separated the fact that what he actually said versus what I believe. And what he said that he believed was that these are all demons. And I would not, I have not, I'm not going to jump to that kind of conclusion. Clearly that's not the case for you because you're looking into this stuff all the time. You wouldn't be spending all your time looking into demons if you thought they were all demons. Right, right. Yeah. Have you heard of this group called the Collins Elite by any chance? I have. Yeah. That's an interesting part of this, this whole narrative. Yeah. Because, you know, like people like Lou Elizondo and a lot of the, the crowd behind, you know, to the Stars Academy and like a lot of the people around modern disclosure describe the Collins Elite as this sort of very embedded in the government faction of, of deeply fundamentalist Christians who don't want to study this stuff scientifically at all because they view it as demonic. And they'll literally cite Bible passages around Lucifer being kind of the ruler of the skies. Do you think that this group that's in touch with you, is it all connected with the Collins Elite? I, I don't, I don't believe so. I, I mean, I, but I don't know for sure. They could be, I think in general, and this is actually the opposite of what, what I was trying to get to, which is that, excuse me, I would disagree with somebody who, is of the Collins Elite view. I disagree with a religious leader who definitively says we shouldn't be approaching this or talk or talking about this topic because it is all demonic. I don't like, I don't have the evidence that that's the case. If anything, as a Christian, what would you say to Mary when she was approached by the angel Gabriel? Don't talk to anything that, that, that isn't from this earth because it's all demonic. Right. Right. And so that, that's like the first thought that I have is that when you, when you read the Bible, most of the times in which an angel or something that's not of earth comes forward. I mean, this is all assuming that that's what you believe. If you, if, if you, if we assume that what we're experiencing are beings that are described spiritually as either angels or demons or et cetera, part of that kind of category, then, then go back historically, most of the time that people are, are getting a message or get, or having a conversation. It's not from a fallen angel. It's from, um, it's from a messenger from God. Like the word angel literally means messenger from God. It doesn't categorically say that this is what, what this, uh, being is. Uh, it does describe different beings like cherubim, seraphim, right? The watchers, which are kind of interesting. Um, and they're all kind of utilized by God to be a, a messenger or an angel. But I mean, that's a long tangent, but that's to say when I apply my, my biblical worldview to this topic, if that were the case, I wouldn't necessarily jump to conclusion that they're all demons, which is why I don't really, I don't really have a lot of high view of the Collins elite perspective. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, I agree with you. I think, um, to say that, you know, none of the spiritual, the spiritual overlays that we've, you know, had for years, like, you know, a lot of, you know, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, like none of those apply as to somehow to what we're looking at now, I think is dogmatic and, and, and crazy. Like, of course, like they might, you know, a lot of these things, I like the concept of Lindy. If they've, something has survived for thousands of years, it probably has value. And so it probably has value as far as describing, you know, the nature of things, some archetypal value. And so to say that the Bible has no archetypal value, I think is sort of, sort of nuts. And then, yeah, I find myself sort of in between that. And then the other side is like, you know, sometimes I'll hear people like Sean Ryan or Tucker Carlson, they'll be like, it's spiritual. And they're like, it's just, you know, it's, it's demons or something. And it's like, well, what is an angel? What is a demon? Like, can we not inquire into what those things actually are? Those sort of, that's sort of a low level descriptor that, ends any conversation. And, and, and you can't have one without the other, even in the biblical context. So some might be really good, you know? That's right. That's, that's why, that's why, again, I go back to what Timothy, I think Timothy Albarino's work is, is he's, he's really kind of analytically, logically approached this to say, for example, like if you were visited by people from another country, go back in the time in which the, which the, you know, Europeans were colonizing, um, the, the Americas, some of them, not all of them were bad people. Some of them, you know, were good. Some of them certainly were bad, but like you, it's, I just think that you shouldn't, uh, categorize it all. For sure. One thing, unless you absolutely definitively know. I agree. And I've seen a remarkably low amount of evidence for the space alien thing. Like you can go back to, you know, certain abductions, you know, obviously, uh, Betty and Barney Hill saying they're from a binary star system. And mapped out looked like Zeta Reticuli, things like that. They're there. You can find a decent amount of things like that, but there is just as much, if I wanted to steel man, the argument for future human time travelers, and I wanted to steel man, the angels and demons argument, you could just as easily steel man, those things as you could space aliens. So it's all of them feel somewhat arbitrary. And I almost feel like the more, uh, worthwhile philosophical endeavor would be, how would you reconcile all of those things? Cause maybe we're talking in these sort of limited frameworks and it's false dichotomies, right? Like maybe, maybe angels can fly to different planets and maybe they can travel through time. Maybe they're from different planets. Maybe they're from different planets, right? Like, um, maybe they are extra dimensional. Maybe they're from different planets or maybe, maybe there's also other creations at different planets in addition to a, you know, categorically angels, um, that are spiritual. I mean, who knows? Yeah. I find the modern conversation around all of this stuff frustrating because it feels like on the one hand, it's like it's space aliens. And then on the other hand with arrow, it's like, it's nothing. And I think in reality, the people who say it's nothing know that it's actually in certain cases, they're bad faith actors that know that it's much deeper than the nothing. So, but they, they know it's actually deeper than, than space aliens too. So they, they, they actually know that it's nothing. And then on the other hand, it's like, oh, that there's something around the consciousness stuff. The fact that this is all kind of an interface, there's something deeper going on in reality. So they can in good faith, people like Sean Kirkpatrick say, I have no evidence for extraterrestrials because it's such an oversimplification. That's right. Well, and if there's no proof of where it came from, which planet it came from, then how then he, then you could definitively, you could say, well, I, I have no evidence of extraterrestrial. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I think that, yeah, I just, I, right now, anybody that says they have all the answers clearly is doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. Anybody speaks with really high confidence says they're all good or they're all bad or I know where they're from. I love the information, the books that people send me. I've gotten some wild. So I've, somebody sent me both volumes of the encyclopedia Galactica, which is, have you seen this? No, it's very creative, but this person has written hundreds and hundreds of pages with graphics. Graphics and, and of, um, of different categories of species of aliens and which planets they're from. And it goes in great detail. I'll try to get you. Oh, I'd love to check. That sounds awesome. I mean, the level of creativity of that, of that material is off the charts. It's off the charts. It's incredible. But yes, I agree when, when somebody starts to speak super definitively and confidently about alien race taxonomies, I'm like, I don't know, where are you getting this? You know, give me, show me the receipts, show me the receipts. Yeah. But I'm down to read that book. That sounds awesome. If you were to pick anyone in government to subpoena or get endless time with in a skiff, you know, secure compartmentalized information facility on this specific issue, UFOs, who would it be? I would say probably, um, Glenn Gaffney, who is, you know, former CIA. Um, I, a lot of people I talked to said that this is somebody that we need to talk to. And then Steve Cantrell, who's former air force, um, I think senior intelligence from the air force, a lot of people will talk to you. And then the other name that kept coming up, um, sadly was General McCasland. Right. And then there's another individual that, that is, uh, since passed away. Um, and so those are the people that I would like to talk to. Can you say who the individual who passed away was? Um, I've, I'm, I'm blanking on the name right now. Okay. I can get that to you. Okay. It's fascinating. It's such a weird Uh, as I'm sure you're running into like org chart, like it's like often not the person who's the most superior in the particular organization that you're looking for. It's like the deputy that knows more than the superior. And there are these like weird cutouts. And I've never seen anything that cuts across so many government agencies, Air Force, Navy, CIA, Office of Naval Intelligence. It seems like all of these groups have some NSA, all of these groups have something to do with this issue, but it's often these like vital sub compartments. It's not like from the top. Yeah. It's so weird. It's almost as if like the aliens are like running the programs themselves or something because I don't understand it. Look, you know this better than anybody. The government's not well organized and stuff leaks and like especially things that are that broadly distributed. So that that feels like a really interesting feature of this whole thing. Just the organizational. That's why I think that it's probably organized from the FFRDC level. Somewhere because then they can they can create the program and the reason for the funding and then report up only what they have to report up to get the funding necessary. So they create the special access program. They create a little vital sub compartment and then they only have to report up a certain amount of stuff. And they're these subject matter experts. So that's interesting. So so they're the like vital core of this whole thing. Right. Federally funded. And honestly, from my experience in government, the higher you go, the the more broad, things are and the less people know or they act like they know or nobody nobody really asked the right questions, especially members of Congress. Most of the time, they'll just take, you know, you'll pass bills that are appropriating billions and billions of dollars to programs with just very generic explanations as to what they do. Right. And often it sounds wonderful. I mean, look at what happened with USAID. You had billions being spent and it would all sounded like rosy, very, very nice things. And then when you looked into it, it was it was when you look into the CIA regime change or some, you know, diversity initiative somewhere. So it's just some sometimes a nonprofit that was just taking the money and using it on non said paying for transgender comic books in certain countries. Just crazy. Right. Like what? Yeah. What is that? So, yeah. OK, that's interesting. The broader you go up in the civilian government, the less of a handle they probably have on these things. Yeah. I mean, they certainly would have the authority if they, if they wanted to, to drill down and get and to pull that information out of them. But oftentimes they're not going to even know what questions to ask. And that's my experience. I truly feel like what we're experiencing right now with the White House, Stephen Miller is now leading up this investigation. The low hanging fruit was to say, we know that there's a bunch of these video files that are sitting at the Department of War in like Sipper and all these other because we know all these people are leaking them. So let's just release all of them. And so the first tranche that's what you saw is a bunch of videos from drones, from MQ-9 Predator drones, where they've cited something that seems really strange. But then where do you go from there? Right. It's actually going to be a lot more sticky and difficult. And you'll have to really roll up your sleeve and you have to know where to go to ask the right and what questions to ask. Right. And so to the point in which. I was kind of frustrated with the White House that they, that they were doing this release and weren't working with the, you know, Secret's task force, weren't working through Luna and myself and Burchett. And then they called and said, you know, hey, can you be, can you say some positive things about the president's release tomorrow? I said, I don't even know what you're releasing. You guys haven't said anything to us. You haven't included us. And the response was, well, we're, we're absolutely going to be including you next because we really don't know exactly where to go next. Right. And when you hear that, hear people at the top saying, we need your help knowing where to go look that to me, that is, that's the, that's really what we're experiencing. It's a little disconcerting because we, you know, it's a government buy-in for the people. Yeah. And it's like, they don't even have a handle on, on this stuff, which seems like really important, you know, like the, the, the, the program strategy they have, I think is a good one that the, from if they pull, if they actually, it'll, pull it off. And what will be the game changer is if they say the president came out, comes out and says, everyone's NDAs related to this topic are null and void. So that frees up a Lou Elizondo and Chris Mellon and all of these people to be able to say David Grush and Jake Barber to say whatever they fully want to say. And then, and then it also frees up anybody else who may have been waiting to be able to come forward. The one, the other things they need to do is they really get right to the people that have already come forward and suffered the consequences like, like Grush, right? The people that lost their pensions, they lost their health benefits, they lost their, their, um, their clearance level. It'd be great if Grush was in a position of power because this guy has did all the work. He compiled hundreds of pages of documents. He gave it to the, uh, you know, intelligence community inspector general. They said it was urgent, incredible. Like I can't think of anybody better who just has access, but I think that's why he, um, creates all the, you know, there are all these, uh, kind of allergic reactions to him because, uh, he, he, he knows a lot. And I think people know he knows a lot. They do. And I, that's why I begged oversight to hire the oversight committee to hire him. I begged anybody in the agencies that are investigating this. I'd love to see him. I hired him because at least it's a great hire. It's a good deal for you. I think I'd love to see ODNI or the white house or, you know, like, you know, it'd be epic if, if you had his knowledge combined with their ability to knock down doors. I mean, you're, you're knocking down doors right now, but you must feel on some level, you're like, why isn't he, you know, why isn't the president? Yeah. No, because the truth is David can give me the information and I can go bang on the door, but I can't knock it down. But if he's working with president Trump, he could go, he could go blast the door open. Right. What, what do you think president Trump knows about UFOs? My, I do believe he's been briefed. I don't know for sure. I, this is what I've heard that he's been briefed. There's a funny anecdotal story that comes with that, that I don't know if it's fiction or not, but it was that, that, that Trump was during that briefing, he was told that there are hybrids and told the narrative that they were, that there's hybrids that potentially live amongst and, and that Trump's response was, you mean like Adam Schiff? No way. Which is, which I could totally believe that he would say something like that, but. Yeah. Wasn't he briefed on like Nordics or something? Like Nordic aliens? Yeah. Something like that. And so, I mean, I don't know for sure. I've been told, I was told that this, again, this is not definitive. This is what I've been, what I've heard. So he, who knows he may, but I, it, it's clear. He's not been briefed. He's not been briefed to the level of, of David, like what, or, or if he has been, he also may not just trust the people briefing it. Sure. Yeah. It's, it's such a weird topic. I, a good story that encapsulates the weirdness of this topic and is in the nineties, Clinton really wanted to be read it. And he was really interested in this whole thing. And that's why, you know, Podesta later gets really involved. And so he's trying to figure out what's going on with UFOs, what's happening. And this guy, Ron Pandolfi, who's at the CIA, uh, he like is helping him and he gets this like civilian researcher, Bruce McAbee to brief Clinton. And it's like, wait, that's the best you can get from briefing our president on this topic. And maybe if it's like a brief on this weird metaphysical thing, that's weakly entangled with reality. That's one thing, but there's a whole gradation of possibilities here up until like literally flying. Objects that deliver payloads. And if you're not being briefed on that and you're the president, it's like, you're not being briefed on like the next hypersonics thing that the U S has capabilities wise. That's like insane. And like, so this topic is it's a breaks your brain. When you hear stories, you're like that. You're like, what? Right. It makes you feel like there's some secret society breakaway civilization. Like, like some of these UFO researchers, like Richard Dolan, you know, uses that kind of as like a conceptual you know, maybe it's this, he's not a high conviction in it, but it, it kind of gets you into that territory. So where, where I'm at right now is that I've think that it's either one of two things. It's one is that we're at a place where our military really doesn't. And, and even all the way up and down the system, nobody really even knows what these glowing orbs are. And that like, while we have this false belief that the government has this, that we have these craft that we have this understanding, we have, this false belief in that it, we have way too much confidence in our federal government, which is, you know, always a safe bet. So there's that. And, and that, that, but that there is something mystical out there that we don't know. And certainly, obviously there's things that we all don't know. Right. And that being one of them, the other worldview could be that we, that there is a layer that knows what's really going on, but it is, but it's this middle layer and that the information is only going to materialize matriculate up if it's demanded or or even in it on it and then downward it's only it's compartmentalized overly compartmentalized and the question is how do you get to that layer of the onion and you get into really weird territory philosophically too because you can say oh it starts with the federally funded research and development centers but then we were talking about this you know before we started rolling it's like the the if there is a feature around the ufo thing it's the like chasing your tail dynamic of anyone looking into it and i'm talking anyone even some of the people you know in the movie age of disclosure like are described as like outsider civilian investigators when like people who watch ufo shows think that they're like at the center of the thing like no one's at the center of the thing and then you get into the you know like this guy mentioned tim taylor at aerospace corporation he's saying he's taking orders from an angel and he's operating on like a higher mandate and his whole hierarchy of the stratification of the government involves uh you know senior intelligence officials and then i think it goes you know human alien hybrids angels like he has a whole thing that goes above i've got to read i've got to read tim taylor stuff check this out and he's a dude that's high function he's been working on nasa missions since the challenger where he he actually talks about judith resnick who died in the challenger mission it really affected him but he's he's a known entity at nasa he's worked there for a long time and then he's also at aerospace corporation like a very real guy and then also you know clearly had dealings at the highest levels of government he claimed to meet with the president actually in certain cases and is showing up in these experiencers lives too he showed up in the life of chris bledsoe he showed up with charles hall who said that he lived with aliens at area 51 um he knows whitley street and he's showing up in the life of chris reber uh so it's this very he's almost like he's operating on some higher mandate like who's who's ordering him to go you know talk to these experiencers yeah i that's wild yeah i do know like one of the individuals that that was brought to me was was highly credible that that does receive what he describes as downloads and this is not a this is not a weirdo this is not a guy living in a van down by the river this is a very respected individual in in our in our nation yeah um not famous but just a very respected uh business leader and and thought leader i know who this person is yeah i'm not gonna out him but okay yeah but yeah he has some very interesting experiences where he sort of channels prophecies yeah and it's it's always hard to say because it's you know some of these things you know often feel filtered through the person and sometimes they can be almost seductively adjacent to true things but they also feel like how would you know that sort of thing you know really on the nose in certain cases so um and he reaches out to me actually because i'll often cover something with my show and he'll be like i channeled the exact thing or whatever i'm like whoa that's kind of trippy so he he's been a very i i think he's a fantastic person to know yeah and um and i don't doubt him i don't um doubt that he he believes that i don't doubt his experiences no yeah and and i'll keep it high level but yeah he has a very impressive uh business track record as well just has done some remarkable things you don't operate at the level that he's operating if you if there's something off no exactly well that's what i mean i think a lot of people have this misconception that the higher you go in society the like less trippy you get like it's not functional to be out there and into metaphysics or eschatology or any of these things but it's not functional to be out there and into metaphysics or eschatology or any of these things and i think it's the opposite i think often the higher you go the more like oh there's something interesting going on maybe yeah because you start you start you stop thinking about you know how am i gonna pay for my boat or how am i gonna like you know your maslow's hierarchy of needs that moves you to a point where you start thinking of the higher 100 have you ever spent time around trump i have uh-huh because i want to i want to hear what that was like because tucker carlson was recently interviewed by the new york times and it was one of these clearly like kind of kind of smug gotcha like new york times was trying to like make him look like a fool or whatever and he was like it's a i think he described it as like a supernatural experience being around trump and trump is like he's a very he's a he's a phenomena of a person you know he like yeah he he grew up at this you couldn't write this up his preacher growing up was norman vincent peel who wrote the power of positive and if you think about his whole thing it's like this like kind of like we're gonna be bigger and we're gonna be better you know it's just like and it's sort of like manifest and it ends up happening and he's able to just he keeps going and um so is that your experience what did you i found him to be a very actually a very hospitable very sweet and warm individual and then at times the funniest person you'll ever meet he he will especially i mean he's pretty much the same person on camera or on a stage yeah pretty much i think he turns out to be the funniest person you'll ever meet takes off the filter a little bit yeah he'll tell stories like he told um i got to the time i spent the most time with him was during one of the days that he was on trial and it was the day that um that his attorney um cohen was testifying against him and it was so remarkable that day was so remarkable because you had him on the stand admit that he's stealing money from donald trump and yet he's a credible witness to uh to the um this i think at the time it was his the housing like that he had overvalued his properties or whatever so uh so he's got to spend a lot of time with trump what was also fascinating is it's this guy one of the wealthiest people in the world and when he orders food it's it's just pepperoni pizza just boxes of pepperoni pizzas and he didn't because normally if you're going to order food for a group of people you would probably do you know we'll do a few of this few of that few of this right complicated a little bit trump is not he's he's he kept it simple uh-huh you know everyone's eating pepperoni pizza oh it's hilarious and he i think i believe he loves big max and i think he's a little paranoid and big max are pre-prepared so that they can't be meddled with um but he's clearly running on some sort of junk energy that like it it it really you know his father fred trump he believed that the human heart was like a battery so the more you work out the more you lowered the energy in the battery and yeah so it's like like trump's like eating big max and pepperoni pizza and he's chilling at mar-a-lago and working all night long working all night long he's sleeping four hours a night and he's he's he's what in his early 80s now he's right right and he's he's still going he's he's a remarkable whatever your politics are it's like that guy is physical specimen he's a physical specimen yeah should be studied he is the ufm the other thing i found in comical is the we were in like what honestly the courtroom we were that we were in reminded me of the tv show night court like that kind of new york like everything's old a little bit dingy not not exactly nice new furniture and trump commented several times about how much he loved the chairs in the show night court like they're not even nice chairs he's like i love these chairs he's so comfortable i love he was just commenting about uh something i thought it just that struck me right yeah well he i mean somebody like that has got to be operating at such a high level but you also need that in-person charisma and so you remember the little details too in a way that probably just wins the favor of like everyone and i'm sure there are tons of people who criticize him so much from afar yeah and then they get pulled in by that handshake and then they get pulled in by that and he starts talking and like you know they do you know i'm sure that happens all the time yeah he does that no one has more charisma yeah yeah where do you think we go on uh on ufos like it feels like look for as much as we've been talking about kind of the quixotic sometimes sisyphean aspects of this whole topic which feel you know like uh very frustrating yeah we've made a lot of progress and i think you're you're a big part of that progress so i guess i'd love to hear you know maybe some behind the scenes stories of like what has led us to today which we're at we're at a historic juncture where we're getting releases from the department of war and then what do you see as like a go-forward outlook i think we would not have been here had it not been for this like magic moment where we had where we had i'll begin with the bravery of people like david grush and lou elizondo coming forward um admiral galadette you know dylan borland list goes on right you've had some really brave people that have sacrificed their careers to come forward and then you've had members of congress who i i mean selfishly i'll say that it was not exactly an advice that was given to me by my campaign advisor he said do not talk about this topic it's going to kill your political career because no one this is not something that's going to advance you people are going to smirk about it and you won't be taken seriously politically i think it ended up working and I think people love you because you jumped into this. I hope so. Yeah. But but yeah, there's people like myself, Tim Burch. I'm going to say the godfather of the of Congress that kind of that, you know, was willing to talk about it. And then obviously leadership of Annapurna Luna. And then us just as a team pushing and pushing any moment that we would get, we would be telling the White House staff, you know, we would be nagging them about this. And then we us trying to pass the UAP Disclosure Act language on the National Defense Authorization Act, you know, coming up and failing, but at least getting that spotlight put on it that moved the ball. But then when we finally got Trump in and then he he was, you know, following through on the disclosure of the JFK files, following through on the disclosure of MKUltra and the Martin Luther King Jr. files, all of all of these things, the. And even though it was sticky and messy, the Epstein files, you know, at the end of the day, Trump is the disclosure president. And when he finally issued this directed to release the UFO files, we are in a historic moment because you you've had presidents that never wanted to talk about this, that have always kept this secret. And this president and the fact that you have a combination of Congress that's willing to actually roll up their sleeves and do the work. This is a magic moment. And so where we go from here, I think. Has to do with, you know, this task force that Stephen Miller has put together and the fact that Trump assigned Miller. That's his guy. Exactly. Yeah. He's the guy who Trump said first when he first came in, assigned him to fix the border wall situation. And then so, you know, it's like those are his top priority. That's his top priority. Now he's assigned to this. That's a big deal. So you got Stephen Miller leading the charge. He's a bulldog. And then you've got a team of people. The fact the fact they're making the CIA work. Come to the table. They're making the Department of Energy talk about this. They're putting together this team. I have I've got, you know, I'm skeptical, but I've got a little bit of hope. And then I what I'm trying to do is trying to hit the private sector, get them on alert. And then and a lot of these letters that I'm sending to you, whether it's MITRE or Rand or MIT Lincoln Labs, we're we're working. I'm, you know, basically telegraphing. To the White House. Hey, look at what I'm doing. You guys need to follow up and follow this investigation. And you and you're working kind of hand in hand with Grush on a lot of this stuff. Yes. And some others that that are kind of advisers that are outside advisers. Any others that you can mention. That don't want to be not going to be public. OK, what do you know? Because I think it's it's easy for, you know, people in the audience to be skeptical around reprisals that people face. And I will say I have a I have a nickname for that group. The Lone Gunman. Yeah, exactly. That are my little team of advisors. Oh, very helpful for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, what so what have you do you have any insight into the kind of pushback that people like David Grush have faced? Yeah, I think that I got to see a meeting happen between Grush and some someone from the from. He and I that was a pretty blunt meeting where he had he was and you could tell they were basically apologizing for the way in which he was he's been treated. Well, here's and so I think that the message that I'm trying to deliver to them is this is going to take more than than an apology. You know, you guys really need to you need to correct some of the things that have happened. Do you think we have saucers and hangers? Do you think we have real physical craft sitting in hangers? Do you think we have alien bodies in facilities? I don't have any evidence, but I hope we do. I would love it if we do. That's what I'm that's what I'm trying to find. But I don't have any evidence of it. But if you had to guess. If you had to I'm I'm for the audience. This is I'm I'm making you engage in speculation. If it's like a yes or no. Probability wise, I would say maybe. I would say 10% chance that we do 10% okay, but worthy of investigation because of the implications of what we do and right all the circumstance game changer it's it's breakaway technology and honestly if we did have it again that I go back to the time that I spent on the tarmac I think we should all be frustrated that we are not able to share in this if there is a breakaway technology that's being hidden yeah yeah well congressman Eric Burleson this this has been an honor. Thank you. been a lot of fun it's really refreshing actually to hear somebody who's just like this is what was told to me I'm cataloging it and I'm going to look for more evidence and I'm just going to follow the trail and I'm not going to be dramatic about it I'm not going to act all histrionic attention seeking call myself a starseed say people are coming after me you know there's a lot of there's enough of that trust me right and that's not to say I don't indulge some of that myself with people I speak to you but like I know I think I think what you have is is is missing so. Yeah. I appreciate your just kind of hold candid approach to the whole topic I think that's really needed. I appreciate the deep dives that you do I watch your podcast I sometimes have to chunk them because they're long but I really love your work you are you're an elite class and the product that you produce is is is of the highest caliber and I look forward to every episode. I don't know what to say that means so much I appreciate it awesome all right cool. If you want to access our episodes 24 hours early and want to watch them completely ad free please consider supporting the show by joining our YouTube membership just click the link in the description to join today your support helps us so much and it allows us to keep making the show and go deeper into the kinds of stories we care most about and a little early access and not getting bogged down by ads. Kind of a cool perk so join today. We'll see you in the next episode of the home Depot with select appliances starting at $399 plus save up to an extra thousand dollars and get free delivery on appliance purchases of $998 or more get a whirlpool laundry tower featuring industry first UV clean technology designed to reduce bacteria in the wash without fading fabrics plus with great prices at the home Depot you can save on select appliances designed to make laundry day easier shop Labor Day savings at the home Depot today offer valid August 27th through September 16th US only see store online for details. Relax and let Kroger delivery handle your grocery shopping this week we start with only the freshest items then carefully pack your order in our refrigerated trucks and our cool trucks keep your food fresh right to your door fresh groceries your way with Kroger delivery and right now you can save $20 on your first delivery order Kroger fresh for everyone this episode is brought to you by Kroger. Brought to you by TXU energy for the first time ever Texans have an energy plan that combines free nights all year with daytime summer savings it's called free nights and cool summer you get free nights every night all year long plus a 25% bonus toward your daytime use all summer it's a first of its kind plan created for how Texans actually use energy discover how much more you could save with free nights and cool summer TXU energy energy for everything visit TXU.com for more information rep number 10004.