Speaker 1Welcome to Lioness Tribe and today I am interviewing the beautiful, the amazing, the incredible Holly McHugh. Holly, thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 2Thank you so much for having me, Lisa. I'm so thrilled to be here.
Speaker 1So I just wanted to give you a little brief introduction. We will put your bio into the show notes as well so everybody can have a little nose and see exactly who you are. But Holly is a sales and messaging coach. She is an incredible mama to two children, isn't that right? Yes, Holly. Yeah, two girls. Yeah, I was like, I am right. But the amazing thing, well, one of the amazing things about you is that you have gotten yourself to multiple six figures working only three days a week in your business. And you grew your business and your family at the same time, which just lights up all of my light switches and turns me on, baby.
Speaker 2So pleased that I turn you on, Lisa. Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1So talk to me a little bit about it, Holly.
Speaker 2Sure. Just how it all happened. Yeah. Yeah. So I have a one and a three year old. I actually, I had a very unconventional start into entrepreneurship. I never actually intended to be an entrepreneur at the start. But following a bit of a quarter life crisis, I had a big self-discovery and, you know, what's the purpose of life type of conversation in my mid-twenties when I was working as a brand strategist in marketing. So I worked in very, very big global marketing companies for my entire business background. So that's really where I kind of learned how to do stuff online and where I kind of really understood, you know, the power of branding, connecting to our consumers and all that amazing stuff. So that was an amazing experience. But I found myself just really struggling to feel happy and to, you know, not know how to kind of just show up and perform at work without that constant fear of being found out to be a fraud, really, and going through all the motions of, you know, a demanding, fast-paced environment, not really feeling like I could keep up with it and just feeling really stressed. And it's that kind of crazy time. You know, you feel like you've ticked all the boxes and you got to where you wanted to in your career and then you're like, oh, I'm not actually happy. And that's really confusing when you're in your early twenties because you thought the dream job was going to make you happy, right? And that's what it's all been for. So that was kind of the trigger point that really set me on a whole new trajectory, full stop in career and in life. And I will never forget some of the defining moments of that. You know, like I will never forget literally crying on the bathroom floor to my bed. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is so cool. And then I decided to become certified because I just really got quite obsessed with everything to do with personal development. And then you're talking to your sister. And you kind of go from this place of thinking I'm the only one, the only one who hasn't figured it out. I'm the only one who gets stressed. I'm the only one who can't handle pressure. And then suddenly you go through this bit of awakening and you have this whole level of self-awareness and social awareness. And you start looking around you like, actually, there's no way I'm the only one here. And you notice other women are struggling too with the same things, the same lack of confidence, the same fear of, you know, as I said, being found out. They don't really know what we're doing. And so that really compelled me to want to share what I'd learned. And then we've been so powerful and so life changing for me in terms of mindset techniques and just reevaluating what was important. So that was, that was my big passion. And then I moved from London to Sydney, thinking I'm going to get a job in HR. I'm going to do learning and development. I'm going to put all my coaching techniques into practice. And no one cared. No one gave a shit because my CV said marketing. And so in Sydney, they're like, nah, you've always taken marketing. I was like, what? No, I want to go. I'm really passionate about this, that and the other. So anyway, to cut a long story short, the only way that I could explore this new world of coaching in an intentional way was to start my own business. So it really just started as dipping a toe in, seeing where this went. And I was able to negotiate a part-time senior marketing role in an amazing blue chip Fortune 500 company, which is literally unheard of, so that I had a day per week to focus on my business. That then led to two days of coaching. I had two days a week because it started taking off. And then I had my first daughter in 2018 and I went on that leave and I basically just never went back. And so kind of crazily, I was building this business for a family I didn't even have at the time. But once I started really connecting to the work and realized, oh my gosh, this is where I'm supposed to be. This is what I'm supposed to do. The moments that kind of really made me persevere, even when it was tough, was thinking ahead to, but imagine how amazing it will be. If I can have the flexibility around a future family, if I just stick with it. So that really became the driving force. So it's funny how things all kind of slot into place in this mystery called life, but that's basically how it came about.
Speaker 1That's where you were like, oh God. I mean, for me, that's like so many people get to that point when they're in their 30s or 40s, you know, where they're like, oh, finally, I've reached this place. I mean, I, for me, I was it for me, the Holy Grail was being a successful actor because that's my background. And I only started training to be an actor in my late 30s, no, my late 20s, my late 20s. Like, and okay, I've had some success. I've had some success in other industries before that. But like, I was like, no, this is what I really want. And I, it took me a while to get going. So I didn't actually get my first paying job as an actor until I was, I think, 33, 33. Different industries. I'm, you know, I had had a good bit of success in acting at that point and really enjoyed it. But I was going, Lisa, it's not the Holy Grail, though. Like, it's not, it's not actually everything that you wanted it to be. And the main thing actually that connects in with what you were talking about was, this is not going to be family friendly. Like, I'm like, and not even, it's not just that, because, you know, I know loads of people who make it work, but like, I didn't want, I knew that I was going to be a family friend. I didn't want this lifestyle, this actor lifestyle, where, I don't know if it's the same in Australia, but in Ireland, it's such, like, there's a social scene that goes along with it that you sort of almost have to be part of in order to be networking and be out there and whatever, and to be top of mind. And I was at the age of 37 going, I want to have a family. And I don't really love that lifestyle anyway, but it definitely doesn't marry with it. And I was like, okay, I'll start again. For me, when I look at everything that you're saying, I get it. God, you're fortunate that that was, you know, you had that wherewithal when you were so young.
Speaker 2Well, yeah, I mean, that was the kind of the spark, you know, the catalyst of, okay, there's, there's more out there. So it was really the very beginning of that journey. It was a few years later before I moved my whole life to the other side of the world, care to save an Australian husband. And then I was completely started from scratch, completely started from scratch.
Speaker 1So what age was that-ish?
Speaker 2So I moved to Australia when I was 30.
Speaker 1Right. Okay. Okay.
Speaker 2And, you know, I think that in itself was a massive deal because you're at that point in your life where, you know, you think you should have had it all figured out by now. And, you know, a lot of, a lot of my friends were in kind of director type positions, you know, in their various careers. And here I was starting from scratch where I had to re-find work. I was basically, I was basically starting my career again. I had zero networks whatsoever. And Sydney is very relationship driven market. I had no, you know, no immediate friendships because I'd moved to the other side of the world. We didn't know where to live. We had very little savings. The conversion of the pound sterling to the Australian dollar at the time was shockingly bad for those with pounds. And it was just this crazy time in my life where I'd gone from, you know, pretty decent lifestyle income, senior. To no one knows my name. No one cares that I want, I have this amazing passion, but I want to do this. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1it's so shocking when people don't just like go oh wow the way you're going oh wow about yourself
Speaker 2and your passion it was like it was it was an emotional roller coaster it was incredibly frustrating and um yeah as I said the only way I could figure things out the way I wanted to was to do it myself and it would have been so much easier to have just taken a full-time nine-to-five so much easier I had a lot of people telling me I should just do that like you just moved here just get settled in just get some money in the bank blah blah blah blah and I knew that if I didn't pursue this at that moment it was just going to sit in a drawer and I was never going to come back to it because I would get comfortable and get comfortable in that full-time nine-to-five
Speaker 1and when you get comfortable you get everything else that's sort of out of that comfort zone seems a lot more scary and seems a lot less doable so yeah like making that decision to sort of live outside of the comfort zone you actually realize it but I mean I think I kind of live there all the time now you know and it's a fun place to be most of the time you know like it it's that like you know when you get used to the stretch like an elastic band when it when you've stretched it and stretched it and stretched it and then it's actually just bigger right and then you go oh but I like the stretch stretch me again yoga you know um but it it is definitely something that you need to it's a muscle that you need to to to exercise right absolutely that's confidence full stuff I think and then you have a baby and then I had a bloody
Speaker 2baby and I didn't know what the heck I was doing oh my goodness that was like yeah like you you've
Speaker 1got like you're so smart and you're like right this job is going to give me future flexibility like even to think in that way is like so clued in and you know most of us don't have that sort of wherewithal and that sort of future thinking but you did and you were so smart and and yeah
Speaker 2then you had a baby tell me about that oh my goodness my so just to kind of paint the picture of my complete lack of experience with babies I had never even changed a baby's nappy before I had my first daughter I had never been around a baby really?
Speaker 1no really really you didn't have any younger siblings or not that much no nope nope wow okay
Speaker 2so um we were um some of the last within my kind of husband's friends group to have kids because we just moved our lives right so I think we perhaps would have had children earlier if we hadn't moved to the other side of the world and restarted from scratch but yeah so it was completely new experience for me and my family on the other side of the world um so I didn't have the kind of support networks either um in navigating that transition from to becoming a mom and it was just I just found it so overwhelming like I was trying to follow this bloody book and the baby didn't follow the book like she didn't sleep when she was supposed to sleep and she didn't feed as easily as she was supposed to feed and I had a really tough time with breastfeeding and it was just it was all very overwhelming you're telling my story
Speaker 1you're telling a lot of our stories to be honest
Speaker 2yeah and I think you know we all have this idea of how it's going to be and I'd had a really smooth stress-free pregnancy I felt great um overall you know kind of a few bumps here but nothing major at all I'd had good energy um and then yeah and then I suddenly I was like oh gosh
Speaker 1what do I do like all day long what do I do what do I do and um I was I was so freaked out by that exact same thing and also my main thing like apart from I had lots of main things the bloody books the bloody book I write six books on how to get a child to sleep and none of the work because the child didn't want to sleep but also the other thing for me was that I just like I was I was so afraid of being really bored with the baby because I really love working and I was like what am I supposed to do with this thing like what am I supposed to do somebody and it's so lonely as well
Speaker 2yeah yeah no one oh that has been one of the biggest aha moments of motherhood is how lonely it is like I think in society at large you just kind of think of older people as the ones being lonely but mums especially first-time mums some of the loneliest people I know yeah um and yeah I think just that that shift from I was so confident in my work that I was like oh my god I'm so confident in my work by that point like I just knew what I was doing and at that moment in time I had this crazy uh lifestyle where three days a week I was in this you know high-flying fast-paced corporate role leading a team of people working on multi-million dollar media campaigns um I mean I led the strategy for a 200 million dollar portfolio in my last corporate role and I was have my own business on the side of that working with clients doing public speaking all this stuff and I hadn't just I had no confidence in myself I had no confidence in myself I had no confidence as a mum and it was a very bizarre uncomfortable you know shift from being used to knowing who I was knowing my worth knowing my value knowing what I contributed um and having confidence in those you know those areas of my life to having no confidence and being at home by myself all day every day with this baby and not really knowing yeah kind of what that meant for me at that moment in time now I was do I even want something yeah well I don't know if this is what I chose it was just yeah it was just I guess you can just can't predict what type of experience you're going to have you can't predict what type of baby you're going to have um and as I said you know the lack of support just because of being so far from my family that was one of the hardest things um but yeah you definitely go through a massive identity rehaul uh overhaul whatever you want to call it when you become a mum um and yeah it was it was a difficult time for me and I think it was it was a difficult time for me to be able to experience for sure and um definitely learned a lot about myself through it learned um really learned why I was having the business through that um okay talk to me about that yeah well it's so I mean it just honestly I joke but it's the absolute truth my business saved my sanity like my business saved me um from the loony bin during that for those first 12 months in particular um and it really brought me from back from the brink of basically what was fully fledged postnatal anxiety at one point um and so I obviously scaled things back quite a lot in those early months and after well I say that um I had this idea that I was going to pop out the baby and a couple of weeks later I was going to be on client calls again because the baby will sleep in the corner and you know I didn't kind of process the fact that I was going to be absolutely knackered um so it was a really hard time for me to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be anyway obviously we made some adjustments to that original plan but I was still doing something from kind of four weeks when she was four weeks old and thank god because it was those calls like with I had a mastermind group running at the time I had um one-on-one clients it was those moments that just gave me a sense of I guess just a reminder of who I was yeah um and always always re-energize me no matter how sleep deprived I was at that moment in time I always came off those calls energized and that in itself just helped me be a better mom you know it helped me be more present it brought me that boost of confidence back um it helped me feel more capable for the rest of that day or the rest of that week even um and it was just so reassuring that I had something else that was just mine yeah and so I think that was one of the most
Speaker 1important things for me I couldn't agree with you more and I absolutely had like almost identical experience like I after my first child went back to work three weeks later oh my goodness yeah now I was working part-time right but I was at the time I was uh teaching performance arts to children um and I only had four classes a week but I remember that feeling of like like the week before my classes started back I was sobbing now I mean my sister was there with me in the room and I was like I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this I was sitting at my kitchen counter on like the little bar stool and I was eating my dinner and then suddenly I was like oh like comedy stopping like but I I have never felt that sense of despair as much as I did in that moment um and my baby was three weeks old and I was like I don't know what to do here I don't know how to do this I don't I don't think this is what I chose like this is not how I pictured it um and the baby was good the baby was fine but it's all those hormones and it's and it's the anxiety it's that post-natal anxiety that I think almost all mothers get but almost nobody talks about um and and I was raging I was raging as well because everyone I I'm a talker and everyone who I spoke to about about it and like I would meet mothers on the street and I'd just start crying it's so hard and they were like yeah it's so hard like I'm not myself anymore and whatever and they're like yeah I felt like that too like and I was like why don't you tell me you know like well you can't really you can't there's no way to tell somebody before they have a baby that that they're going to feel like this and I was like there should be there should be some warning and it's not that the warning would have stopped me from having a baby but the warning would have let me know that it was okay to feel like that that it was normal that it would pass that it it wouldn't last forever but when I walked back into my classroom three and a half weeks after I had my baby I had this sense of a weight being lifted and what it really felt like was oh I am I'm me I am me I am actually still me I other people need me for other things apart from my boobs and like you know other people value me for other things apart from picking them up and you know and it's not like it's it's it also let me know that this wasn't going to be forever there was this knowing that oh okay okay this is like my baby's going to grow up into a child that can walk around on its own like I was in a classroom I was like oh he's gonna do this someday that'll be easier you know
Speaker 2you know I had the funniest moment where and I'll never forget it because that's at the time that feels so far away right when you have a newborn it feels like they're never gonna grow up they're always gonna be a baby that needs constant routine checks and feeds and swaddling and whatnot and I remember sitting with my husband on the sofa watching the tv and have a football match and I just said to him all of their parents got got them through to adulthood like it was just this wow like they all survived like they're all still there like a whole group of footballers and they all made it to adulthood and it was like just everything felt so far in the future for me at that time um but yeah it passes as with everything and it definitely has taught me so much as a person not only as a mother but also as a business owner and there's just so many interesting parallels between what makes you successful in business what makes you you know a present uh parent yeah oh we have frozen hold on flows you know it's both of it's a roller coaster like motherhood is a roller coaster entrepreneurship is a roller coaster and um you know the same uh principles support you through both
Speaker 1journeys yeah yeah absolutely so tell like talk to me a little bit more about that then like talk to me about the principles of motherhood that um are similar to the principles of entrepreneurship
Speaker 2so I think um I mean we were touching on confidence before and I think that's obviously one of the biggest um things that everyone has to kind of navigate when they start a business and they thrust themselves into this whole new space and I think the the biggest kind of parallel for me between becoming a mom and becoming an entrepreneur is that when we have no choice but to follow through and do something when it absolutely just falls with us it's our responsibility those mama bear instincts fire up right so when it's something to do with my daughters even if I don't really know what I'm doing even if it's a whole new space even if I'm not sure of myself I find a way right because you have to it's your babies um and my second daughter was unfortunately born with a lot of health challenges and we were in this whole new um unknown space where we're constantly searching for answers constantly getting misdiagnoses we traveled the length of the state uh to see specialists to get the right care for her you know I fought my way through all kinds of different barriers of people telling me there's nothing wrong and this is just how babies are and all that bs which luckily is a not correct um because ultimately it was all about her and I think if we can recognize our ability to do that as a mom right we would do anything ultimately when it comes to our kids like it doesn't matter how introverted you are I'm an introvert it doesn't matter how soft spoken you are naturally I'm softly spoken when it comes to our kids we fight because we we stand up for what is important to us and what it you know it means to us and we own that and no one is going to tell us otherwise right and I think that what that really shows us and should reassure us around is that when something is important enough when we feel that sense of purpose around it when we're connected to the why we're doing something then fear gets pushed aside because there's a higher value at play there's something more important than that and you you'll have heard that expression no doubt that you know your dreams need to be bigger than your fears and it's so true but that's really taught me that you know there's always a mind over matter way to tackle fear if we've dug deep enough into what we're doing it all for and I think you know some of the ways that I've overcome some of my biggest fears in business when it comes to you know visibility or just putting myself out there or charging higher prices or whatever it was at the time it's really understandable what and who am I doing it for and I think when we recognize not only is it about who we're serving in our business and you know the impact that we know we can have with our gifts and skill sets and brilliance it's about the impact on those as we grow that business to the place we want to and the freedom and flexibility that comes with that and how that's supporting and nurturing the people who are most important to us right and I think what keeps me going is that I will never give up the freedom and flexibility that I have today versus when I was in a nine-to-five the idea of having to ask my boss for permission to go and travel with my daughter to get her the specialist care she needed no way my second daughter Olivia has taught me the very meaning of financial freedom and that is not needing to think about paying these specialist bills these medical bills not needing to worry about taking time out of my business because she needed me that's ultimately what it's all about so yeah for me there's just been a lot of really powerful lessons and to see how it all actually interweaves and interconnects is is really incredible
Speaker 1wow that was I think one of the most eloquently put ideas I've ever heard and it's it's I'm so glad that you said it and exactly the way that you did because it's something that I often try to articulate so I'm going to come back and listen to this properly again so that I can like maybe take some notes even yesterday I spoke to one of my clients about because you know like I'm a confidence coach and it's like the main thing that I'm teaching people how to be but often so I had a client yesterday who was finishing up with me it was her last session and you know I was saying like you know how do you feel in comparison to how you thought you might feel at the end of these sessions and she was like it's funny I don't know if I feel way more confident but I definitely feel like I'm for the first time that I'm going to do my business that I'm that she's gotten her first client she's like she's got her you know her messaging to a place where she's really confident about it she's you know but she still has lots of doubts and lots of you know I was like you know you just get a little bit more used to the doubts you get a little bit more um you know comfortable in that space of stretching and being uncomfortable but I said no you really have to remember to treat your business as if it was one of your babies like you you cannot leave your business down there and just say I'll be back to it in a few weeks right I just I'm not feeling it right now you know you can't do that with one to adult today it's apparent today yeah because and that's the thing if you do that to your baby or your child they're not going to survive and it's the same thing with your business and it's not that you're ever going to feel fully confident fully like yeah yeah yeah I'm doing it I'm doing it like you know but that's okay there's hardly anybody who you have moments of that you there's definitely some you know some highs but a lot of it is you know just looking after it just making sure that you know what it is why you're doing it who you're serving with it um and fighting for it like you just said fighting for it and fighting for that lifestyle that it brings you as well like that's your why that's that's you know the other big thing that I often say to people when they're talking about their business like if they're really like oh I just really want to help people and that's great and there has to be an amount an element of that especially if you're coaching people but what's in it for you like there has to be something there has to be something there for you to fight for right um and I think that's what a lot of people especially mothers forget to connect in with what's in it for me like I'm important here too
Speaker 2I'm just as important as anybody else in the equation yeah so we have to be emotionally connected to our dreams and our goals and our intentions right it has to be because it's emotion that lights the fire and I love what you said about you know it's not that other people don't feel fear because I always say you know it's not the successful people that you're admiring and thinking are so far ahead of you don't feel fear it's that they take action in spite of those people and they don't feel fear and they don't feel fear and they don't feel fear and those fears and you're absolutely right it's like a muscle that you flex and the more you kind of come up against that sense of uncertainty and discomfort the more you remember that you have the techniques to move through that and move past that but it's not that you're ever going to be um you're never going to eliminate the fear doing something different okay it was just how we're wired and um you know I talk a lot in I mean a lot of what I do in my work even though I'm called a sales and messaging coach it's actually mindset because of course you know mindset is actually everything and it is 80% of what we do and the one thing we have to remember is how we are wired because I think we get a lot of frustration come up for ourselves um or comparison traps we're like oh it's easy for them for whatever reason the story would tell ourselves or it's okay for them because insert equally you know fictitious story and um we feel frustration as to why am I procrastinating when I know this is what I want to do and I'm still not taking the action and so it's important to recognize it's because your subconscious mind has one key role and that is to protect you from pain and keep you alive but your subconscious mind cannot distinguish the difference between life-threatening danger and getting on a Facebook live you know or you're having a sales call or saying your new prices out loud or whatever it might be you know we don't it doesn't know the difference and so the only thing that we can really do to get us through that moment of shit I'm you know I don't know I don't know if I can do it well it's all too much is to think about how we're going to feel if we never do and to bring that future pain forwards and that's the only way to kind of flip the switch on the you know basically play play its own game um is you know how will I feel if I never make this happen how will I feel if I know um I could have had a completely different lifestyle you know it's that whole what if and the short-term discomfort for me personally is a drop in the ocean compared to a lifetime of potential regret of not tapping into my full potential not seeing where this could have led not seeing what I was capable of not seeing the impact I could have had on others and so I think that's that's one of the things that I think is really important and that's one of the things that I think is really important and I think is really important to me is that you know I think it's really important to me is that I think it's really important to me is that I think
Speaker 1that's the one thing that I think it's really important to me is that I think it's really important to me is that I think it's really important to me is that I think it's really important to me is that I think it's really important to me is that I think it's really important to me is that I think it's really important to me is that I think it's really for them and I really congratulate them because I'm like you've now differentiated yourself from your past self you've now differentiated yourself from the majority of people who will stay in that space of like what is what if I could have just done that like what what would my life be like because there's no guarantee that you're going to succeed you know today like that's why I love setting intentions you don't you don't know if you're going to actually reach the goal the intention but you're going to do a lot of cool shit on the way there and it might like and then you're going to do a lot of cooler shit than you would have if you'd just gone no no I don't know
Speaker 2I don't know if I'm able for that you know right right and you know for yourself then think of your kids again like exactly you know make it about someone else and I think that's another thing that's always got me out my comfort zone is I've just committed to I've made the commitment to so I have no choice but to follow through that's how I got some of my first work I just said yes and then I figured out how I was going to do it afterwards uh yeah it's something it's something
Speaker 1that I that I've heard recently like you know one of the big um you know reasons that people succeed is that ability to make a decision just make a decision make a decision and move on make a decision to move on because no decision is right or wrong a decision just propels you in a certain direction it's that commitment to I'm doing it oh shit I've gone the wrong way it's grand I can turn back I've got feet I can walk it's fine I've got everything I need to reroute you know um but we just so often like get stuck in that I don't know what the right decision is and that's often I think like you know with women it's perfectionism that that keeps them stuck and keeps them going it's if it's not going to be perfect I'm not going to do it because I'm supposed to be perfect you know
Speaker 2but life's a lot messier than that isn't it and here's the thing you never know what the right decision is going to be you're not going to be perfect you're not going to be perfect you're not you'll never know until you actually take steps forward yeah right until you put something out there and get feedback and get momentum and see what works and what doesn't and refine and tweak along the way you will never know yeah so you know that the hypothesizing will never end you've
Speaker 1just clarity comes through taking action yeah and I think we I think we enjoy hypothesizing I think that's part of it like it's the same place right because then we don't have to do anything exactly uh oh my goodness Holly I could talk to you literally all day long but we can't we've got we have lives and children clients to see children to feed but tell me I know you have uh an amazing free resource that you'd love to share with my audience so let's hear about it
Speaker 2I would um if it's helpful to everyone um I think one of the big stumbling blocks is well how do I get my stuff out there and how do I actually find clients um I've built my business without paid advertising um and there's so many amazing organic strategies that are available to us so I've created um just a really simple cheat sheet for you which is 20 fuss free ways to find clients without paid ads and you can get that at hollymccue.com forward slash lioness tribe so it's h-o-l-l-y m-a-c-c-u-e.com forward slash lioness tribe and you can grab that free gift right now
Speaker 1and we'll put it into the show notes as well so that people can just click it thank you so much that's so kind of you and I think and my audience are going to really grab that and take it with both hands Holly thank you so much for your time your inspiration your motivation your vulnerability everything that you've brought to the interview today I love you so much thank you oh you're so welcome thank you so much for hosting me it's been amazing ♪ ♪
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