Concussion and the Role of Physiotherapists

(upbeat music) - Hi, saints and aes. - What up, Michelle? - How are you? I hope you are good, blessed, happy, said, honest. - You hope that they said? - I mean, they might be. I'm not happy, you're said. I don't hope you're said. I just know that that might actually be a reality. And so I hope. - Well, we have been talking about healthy lament lately. - How it? - How it, how it's good? - We've been talking about it? - We had a couple of guests on here. We was talking about lament. - Oh, yeah. - Yeah, about lament and how, you know. - You said it like it was recent. I was like, we went talk about it. - It was the last podcast shoot. - Oh, whatever, man, you making me confused now. - No, it's okay. - Whatever. - I don't know what it is. - I was just trying to basically say, it's good to have healthy sadness. - Yeah, I'm sad all the time. - No, you don't say. (laughing) - You know, speaking to saddest. - Jackie B. (laughing) - What the hell? - Well, you should say, you're gonna say something. - I was just, we got the crew here. Hey, hey. - Hey. - How you all doing? - Good to see you all. - I pivoted because I got to tell a real quick story. I've been told, I told it on the stage and I told it on three, it's an armadillo here. - It's actually really powerful. - It's the sad story. - Yeah. - See? - I know what you're gonna tell me. - So I was on it. So me and Melissa, we used to do a podcast together. What was it? - You never remember the name. - I don't remember the name. - Let's talk. - Let's talk. - I even remember the name. - My man. - We used to do a podcast where Jasmine Holmes called, let's talk. So Melissa's one of my favorite people, really wise, light, beautiful theological woman. And we were on the phone about something. And I don't know what we were talking about. We were just talking about the difficulty of the Christian life. And you were saying how somebody asked you how you've endured it or how you have navigated the Christian faith and like all the things. And you would expect Melissa's answer to be some deep and like, you know, I just endured by, you know, looking to Christ too is my kids member, Demar or something. - Him kids member. - She was like, yeah, I cry a lot. And I said, that's it. Like that's actually a really underrated spiritual discipline. It's just grief. And what that actually does cultivate in us as it relates to like being able to stay near to God. So I just, that's been it. That's been it. My pocket ever since we talked. 'Cause that's a thing. - She came on with Tommy and I was like, huh? - I cried a lot. - I cried a lot. But in the Lord's side, the Lord started to show me how healthy it is for us to cry. I didn't wrote a poem about it. - Yeah, when you look at Jesus, when you look at Jeremiah, when you look at all these, they had some grief. So thank you for that, you know what? - Yeah, well, and you knew what? I mean, 'cause I know we're gonna try back kids and stuff in a minute. It's also good. My mom, I remember this. This was her piece of advice to me. I had this newborn and I remember I hated it when she cried. And her advice, and I realized it was good advice for a baby, but it was good advice for a 10 year old. It was good advice for a teenager. She was like, "Baby's are gonna cry." - That's simple. - And it's okay. But we wanna fix it when I make 'em stop crying. And sometimes it's just like, oh, your teenager? They just need a cry. - Yeah. - Yeah, or whatever. And then adults, we just need a cry. - And Christians. - Yeah. - Anyway, thank you all for being here. We appreciate it. We had a real mishap with the flight. It was on that thing for four hours. I don't know if the devil was making all herotated or something, I don't know what that was about. - But you can't hear it from the saying that I was like, - So we appreciate that. - Yeah. - 'Cause I was like, "I just came here with an attitude." - I can't tell you this. - I'm so glad I've seen Dr. Groegers. - The sleeper you on the mic. I don't know. - I know you gotta call me Mike. That's the rule. - I think the last time. - That's the rule of our conversation. - We talked last time we were together. We did a panel together at the gospel coalition. - We did. - I'm Aaron. - And I just remember getting the critique because I had slides on like this on the stage. People were like, "Wow, dare you get on that stage with slides." I'm like, "I'm gonna be myself." - Yeah. - Yeah. - How long have y'all been married? - Coming up on 29 years. - Wow. - So 28 years right now. It'll be 29 on July. I better get the month right, I guess. - I never can. - Yeah, I don't, I actually remember I'm anniversary more than you. - Yes, it's the number thing. It's 72697. I needed to be 72797. I needed the, I should have got married on Sunday rather than Saturday. 'Cause it's-- - That would have been cheaper too. - Yeah, I would. - Yeah, I would. - It would have been cheaper. - Oh wow. - So, you know, so it's 29 years. We'll be 29 years, yeah. So we're coming up on the big 3-0 next year, which we're excited about. We're gonna try to take a fun trip somewhere and celebrate. - What is that like to be married that long? - And we dated for five years. - Yeah, we dated for five years. - So knowing him since I was 18. - Mm, sheesh. - It's like we grew up together. - I think in some sense, being married for that big chunk of your life, I mean, you really realize that the reason you tune out the way you are is largely because of the person you've been with for so much of your life, you know? And the reason I'm me and not, you know, certainly a lot better version of me than I would have been is because we get to be together and shape each other and love each other over those years. And so I mean, I think if you get, it's not that getting married later in life is a bad thing. I mean, great, when God brings you a spouse, that's wonderful, but you don't have the backstory of all those years of shaping. - Mm-hmm. - Looks good. - I think the best thing is just the contentedness of sitting on the back porch together. I mean, we're, you know, all of us, we travel a lot. We do a lot of stuff. And the thing I think I love the most is my favorite place to be is on the back porch with you. - Yeah. - And just talking. And he's still the person I want to talk to about things. Like, did you hear this? Yeah, what do you think about this? And man, I mean, that's, I just am so thankful for that. - Yeah. - One of the things we're going to do more in recent years is actually travel together, which is really great because, you know, lots of times we're just-- - You don't even work well. - Yeah, apparently travel together is cursed if you go by today's standards. But I mean, lots of times we're just off to different places every weekend. We have a funny story we tell years ago when we were traveling places and we were getting our schedule straight and I told Melissa, I said, "Hey, just so you know I'll be in Dallas this weekend." And Melissa's like, "You're going to be in Dallas?" I'm like, "Yeah, she goes, "Well, I'm going to be in Dallas this weekend." And I'm like, "No." And like, "You're going to be in Dallas too." Turns out we were on the same flight. And then he's going to realize it. So we both sleep in Dallas on the same flight, took Ubers to two different events, didn't even realize it. - Did you guys act somebody to move so y'all sit next to him? - I don't think we were able to sit next to each other. I think the fight was full. - I was like, I need to work. - You probably were. You're probably like, I don't want to talk to you. I think I got too much to do. And that's why you know there's some trust and longevity, 'cause I feel like there are some younger marriages where they would fill a type of way about not sharing the same thing. Or, you know, "Hey, I gotta work, man. I don't, I can talk to you when we get to the house." - Exactly. - He's like, "Did I have to say that freely?" What does it mean? - They're being a consequence is-- - I ain't gonna lie a couple of times though, I said when you was in a different seat, I just waited to see if it was like a creepy person from the sit next to you, 'cause I'm like, "I mean, you always sell people to move." - Yeah, I always do. I'm gonna sit next to my wife. - Yeah. - Gotta get a bucko. - You say it kind of aggressively, so it's like, it's not even like I'd do. - I do. - Question, how long between getting married, did you have children, and did you have children intentionally? - Yeah, I think it was about three years. - And then it was three years between all of our kids. - Yeah, so apparently the number three is a big factor in our very family plan. - It's very special. - Three, three, three. - Okay. - So we got married, and then it wasn't long to have moved to Scotland because I was doing my PhD there at the University of Edinburgh, and we were trying actively. And we're excited to see what would happen, and we were thrilled to get pregnant that quickly. And so yeah, it was about three years into our marriage that we had Emma, and she was born in the Royal Infirmary in Edinburgh, Scotland, so that was a crazy experience, 'cause obviously your first child, no one's there. She was born in a foreign country, and we were completely alone, and there was no phone to text with back then. There was no one in the United States even knew we had a baby, and we were there alone with her for a long time, before he even knew. - He had to use a calling card. That's how you had to call from the hospital. - That was crazy. - Our cell phones couldn't call at the time. They were just like-- - Flip phones. - Yeah, flip phones. And so he had to find a calling card to be able to call the states, you know? - Okay. - It was like the dark age. - Is that dang like how old are you guys? - Yeah, what the dang is about? It's like they have electricity back then. - It's like eight and eight and eight and eight. - This was late '90s. - He said they're eighties. - Why is that a shot? - Why is that crazy? - Well, we moved to Scotland in the late '90s. - Yeah, but she's born in 2000. - She's born in 2000. - Well, 2000 in my mind was yesterday until I think about 2001, everybody thought Jesus was gonna come back. - Exactly. - I remember how I was born. - Yeah, he was my cracker in water and starting-- - Yeah, I was at a party, and I went in the bathroom at like 11, 50, I said, "Lawrence, you're okay." - Why, just in case, I don't know, if you come back, can't you take me with you? - I just remember, I'll go buy five cases of water. Like, that's really gonna last us. - That's ridiculous. - Anywho. - You got it again. - We all have written a devotional together called The Good News Family Devotional. - The Good News. - And it's a 52 week, am I right? 52 week devotional on the book of Mark. The way-- - 52 weeks is cool. - Is that a year? - It's a year. - It's a year. How long it take you out of right this? - Well, it took us a while, but we also drew upon some Bible studies that you've done before. And so that helped. We put it together. - He had taught, he had taught at RTS where he works, performed Theological Summonery. They had a, he had a women's Bible study he taught for years with a bunch of women in there. And for over two years, you taught the gospel of Mark. - Yeah. - So the devotional is actually pulled from all of that teaching. - Yeah, yeah. - So he are, you know, He had a lot of the material already, but he's been two years teaching it. (upbeat music) - Magic Spoon cereal tastes like the classics that we grew up on, but without all the sugar. And clearly y'all know I'm a diabetic. So, sugar got to be watched and observed and kept at bay. 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Flavors include marshmallow, chocolate, peanut butter, double-jock assaults, cornmeal, caramel, high-reset, and more. These feel like a treat, but they actually function like a protein bar. Personally, my favorite flavor is the fruity flavor, because I've always like fruity flavors growing up, but I also like that it's packed with protein, because you can eat it and then go straight to the gym, and you gotta have all that extra stuff. - Look for Magic Spoon on Amazon, or at your nearest grocery store. And if you want to try something new, check out Magic Spoon's protein pastries. They are packed with protein and tastes like the nostalgic toaster pastries you grew up with, but without all the sugar. You can get $5 off your next order, including the protein pastries at Magic Spoon.com/pears. That's Magic Spoon.com/perry for $5 off. (upbeat music) - What I like about it is like, I haven't seen one a lot of family devotionals, but if I have, it's not through a book of the Bible. And so I guess why mark of all the, we got 65 other options, why that book? - Yeah, that's a great question. So, we thought about the idea of doing a family devotional and the importance of that, and what kind of book would be really useful to do with your kids that could put you right in front of the core teachings of the gospel and the person of Christ. And obviously a gospel comes to mind. I mean, what's not to love it and enjoy about any of the four gospels, you get to meet Christ, you get to see his teachings, his activities, his death and resurrection. And then it was a matter of then picking which gospel. Part of the reason that mark was a obvious favor, 'cause I'd done all this work on mark that we just talked about. But the other thing is that mark actually functions as a great family devotional, 'cause it's so quick and so to the point. Has this real rapid sort of way it moves through the narrative. Each story is short and containable and it moves along quickly, it doesn't drag. And for a family, that really worked. - That is so fun. - Here's the fun part of the story though, is that Melissa and I were on different pages about which gospel, so we had this little interfamily debate. - Basically, he won. - Yeah, I won that one, I won the debate, but she was calling for tell them which gospel. - A lot of gospel. - John, the gospel, John. Everyone's like, Mark, why'd you pick Mark? - It's my favorite gospel. Except yours. - A lot of the underdog gospel. - It's all inspired. - A lot of that sort of thing. - Yeah, and I just can't, I mean maybe going through Matthew with all the parables with kids that could be. - I can see it all, though. - I think the obvious is kind of John, but I think I can see Mark. - I have to say, John one is tricky. If you start, I mean, so Mark gets right into it. - Yeah, we'll say, which is nice for kids. - They love stories. - It's very story-driven. It's very story-centric. And so there's teachings of Jesus and Mark, but they're not really long extended teaching blocks. - That's great. - And so you can kind of get lost in a long teaching block with a kid, but they really grab a story that has a short teaching at the end, and we found that to be really useful. And they really grab a hold of it. - I love that. I got a question, you want to go? - There you go. - One of the interesting ways, or the way you structured it, which I think is helpful, is that you have observations and questions and approaches for younger children and for older children, which I think we feel that because our kids are 11, 7, 5, 4. So with Eden, she's kind of moving into this range where she can handle more, I guess, not lofty, but heavier subject matters, but then you got sage in August, whereas God is real, that's all we got. And so I guess even in your experience, tell us how many children you have, they're ages, but also that process of how y'all learn to navigate, teaching them when they were younger, and teaching them when they were older, so that people who have kids in different stages know how to approach discipleship according to ages. - Yeah, that's right. So our kids now are 25, 22, and 19. (laughs) I still think when I meet people that age, I'm like five years older than them, so it's so shocking. I'm like, "Oh, you're my daughter's age." Okay, okay. But so we kind of had a range, there was a six-year spread, and we faced that same thing. We'd have a 12-year-old at the table and a six-year-old at the table. And so that was actually part of what I was trying to do, is how can you study the Bible together as a family and yet have different ranges? And so my background is education. And so one thing I know about younger kids is they need really concrete questions. Well, in our Lingo, we call those observation questions. If you're looking at observation, interpretation, application, and so kids can actually listen to a story and be like, "Oh, okay, and you can even tell 'em beforehand, "Hey, I'm getting ready to read this story. "I want you to be listening. "Where did it take place? "Who's in the story?" And then afterwards, you can say, "Hey, who was in this story? "Who were some of the names? "Did anybody remember who were the names?" And doing that kind of interaction with them, well, there are a couple of things I love. One, it gets them talking rather than you talking. - That's good. - But it helps them engage and listen in a different way. So if you give 'em a little prompt beforehand, then they're like, "Oh, I'm supposed to be paying attention." Well, that's just helpful anyway. And then with the older kids, it can be a little bit more, okay. Well, so why do you think Jesus got so upset when Peter said, "You're not gonna go the cross," basically that whole interaction. Why did Jesus rebuke Peter? You can ask the why questions, more the interpretive questions within 11-year-old. And then we put a family application question and why we did that was, they need to see I'm growing. It's for everybody. - That's good. - Like, who do I, how does mom need to obey differently? How does dad need to obey differently? - We're still learning too. And so it's kind of teaching them that basic observation, interpretation, application, but also giving it age appropriately so that they can, everybody gets to answer. - That's really good. I have a question. So you guys have multiple kids like we do, right? And we know that every kid is not the same. They all are different. And so like the way this one thinks, is not the way this one thinks. The way this one processes is not the way this one processes. 'Cause it's the way you could talk to Eden and she's locked in. All of them is like come back here, come back to Earth. She think about unicorn somewhere. - Yes. And so oftentimes I find myself having really, sometimes great apologetic question. Conversations from my daughter Eden, she's very thoughtful. And then sometimes I'd be like, oh, I didn't actually point to my other daughter today. And so like, what is the balance of adjusting to each child and how they're made differently? Like what is the balance in? Also this temptation can not to leave one behind. Or like, I'm pretty sure some kids can be lost in some families. So talk about that. - Yeah, I mean, one thing to remember and all that, and those are really great questions is that when we think about how we decipher our children, the family devotional is not the only thing we're doing. Right, so the first thing to remember is that that's one part, that's a key part of what we're doing. But not the only thing we're doing. So when we worry about leaving a child behind, it's not necessarily all having to be solved in that one study. But one of the things that I've found over the years and that we found together over the years is that the different learning styles of the kids actually feeds one another horizontally. In other words, it's not just that the kids are learning from us, they're actually learning from each other. And the way they respond differently and the way they engage a text differently, the other children will listen to them, maybe in ways they don't listen to us. And they'll resonate with things they observe that even resonate if we were to say the same thing. And so one of the big takeaways we've seen over many years of doing this with our kids is how it's bound them together. It's really made them a tight unit. Now of course, their friendships and their relationships are bigger than just that we did family devotional together. Not suggesting that's the whole thing. But we really think that spiritually, they're really, really united because they spent time studying God's Word as a unit. And there's something different about studying God's Word as a unit, as a group, than doing it independently in an isolation. And I think that's really the key thing you're taking away is that, of course, if you do it in a group, you're not gonna be able to meet every individual need. But it's not always bad to not meet every individual need. Sometimes it's good for people to absorb to the group and respond to the group and realize that it's not only just about their individual needs. And that's actually very, that's great. Yeah, because I think also to our church. Yeah, well it is it's like a little picture of church Yeah, why do we go to church why don't you think out of it? Well, okay, you may not get anything out of it But you realize you're there for more than that. Yeah, you're there for you're trying to give as well as got when you go Yeah, I think one thing that I've noticed our children they have their own relationships with one another And so the things that I kind of Porn to eat in I think eating has her own unique ways of kind of passing what I pull down To her daughter mean to her sister Which is great observation. I really know stuff. Yeah, I think A learning curve for us is that we were not raised in Christian homes and so it seems as if we are trying to Create traditions and rhythms and patterns that we Didn't see and so we feel like for me sometimes I feel lost like how do I do this like I know how to disciple People that are 20 and up. I don't know how to disciple as what I don't know how to be as consistent when it comes to these kids when I'm just trying to I'm just trying to make sure y'all stop fighting. I'm just trying to make sure you got your homework I'm just trying to make sure it was pajama day for one of y'all another one of y'all got a science project I'm actually thinking about all the other stuff that sometimes I miss Jesus in a way. I'm trying to stop myself from jumping out 14 places. Yeah, I'm trying to keep you alive Yeah, you're in survival mode. Yeah, and so the whole rhythm stuff The rib of stuff is something so I guess Did y'all learn this growing up or was this something that y'all just developed as a family unit when y'all got married? Yeah, we both grew up in church going homes So and we're so thankful for that But we did not neither of us grew up in a home that did family divisions or really studied the Bible together as a family So we kind of felt the same way. Yeah, we knew we wanted to do this, but we were like um Yeah, how do you do this? Yeah, you know, what do you do? And so honestly when they were little you would just read One of the storybook Bibles or something with the kids and talk with them about it And that was just a daily, you know like reading books with your kids doing that and then when the kids got an elementary school Is when we started doing family devotions in the morning and I want to say This was so far from perfect. I mean it was like 10 minutes But here's my biggest parenting secret is kids only know the house they grew up in Like they don't know it's weird that you're spending 10 minutes talking about Jesus at the breakfast table and opening your rivals They just know that that's what your family does So that was kind of my oh well we can just make we can make our family normal whatever we want to make our family normal And so we would meet and we would read a passage and we'd pray for each other That and I look back and I think about those prayers for each other then learning to do that Every day of the week because we had five So like on Monday we might pray for Kate on Tuesday we might pray for Emma on Wednesday we might pray for mom on third you know and we prayed for each member But somebody else around the table prayed for them And so just those little habits you realize your building community Wow just by doing what God asked you to do and that binds you because you know kid if you say hey How are you doing they might run at you especially as they get older? I just prepare for the boy grunting like that's what they kind of speak at that age. It's grunt language It is I was like I don't speak grunt john. Can you like use words? Yeah, and But when you ask hey, how can I pray for you this week? They do share and you get more in those moments Then you know you really started to hear a little bit about how they're doing or they're worried about a friend or you know whatever And so I look back and I'm like oh these are really really sweet times Together as a family best dope was there a reason for I'm sorry go ahead No, I was just gonna say one one of the things about sort of Feeling like I don't know how to do this, which is I think what everyone feels and I think we felt that too There's there's there's a I think an instinct a lot of people that think well if I'm gonna have a family devotion Well, I should just go all the way and make it the greatest family devotion that there's ever been And I'm gonna make it a little church service and I'm gonna study all week and prepare a message We're gonna make this really wonderful and I the analogy I give is like when someone decides they want to start You know getting more fit and working out what do they do? They always try to buy off more than they can chew right? So they'd be like well, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna run five miles a day and I'm gonna work out of the gym Never last because they've just tried to push it too far and so what I always tell people is if you're gonna start a family devotion I'll keep it really Simple and achievable those are the those are the two words I like to use simple and achievable so that you're like I can do this Reasonably are they because it's not trying to do everything. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's good And I think the way okay, so the devotional on this one is actually set up for the parent So it's based on Deuteronomy 6 we didn't see anything like this out there which says Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and strength and this is these commands are to be on your heart Teach them to your children. So the devotional is is actually kind of like devotional commentary He wrote it, but he wrote it for normal people and And so it's the because I think a lot of times as parents we feel like well, what if they ask me a question? I don't know how to answer you know because kids You know when you're teaching they got angles. Yeah when you're teaching you get to just say what you want to say You're like I might miss that part about why he got so mad about the fig tree You know, but like kids are gonna be like well did Jesus have a temperate tantrum with the fig tree? They're gonna ask those type of questions and and so we're trying to create a resource that actually makes a parent feel like well I knew a little bit about what's what's going on maybe more so But then we really want just the kids to start talking Like so that the parent doesn't like Okay, I'm gonna tell you for five minutes something about Jesus It's the words gonna tell them and then we're gonna talk about it as a family and that just lowers the pressure Like rather than us feeling like we have to have all the answers or know everything It's it's a little more like hey, we're learning alongside you, but God's word is what we want you to know and you know The only way you learn language is by speaking it Like when you have little kids you talk to them even though they can't understand you So you know your youngest kids will be sitting at the table. They might get half of it. Mm-hmm Maybe they'll get a quarter of it. That's okay. That's how you learn. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know you pick it up as you go Yeah, and then all of a sudden it's 15 years later and you know a lot of Bible stories. That's good I real practical question real real quick, which is why did y'all pick the morning because I think of the morning I'm tired. I got to get y'all dressed get y'all fed get y'all up out of here Why was morning best for y'all? Yeah, it used to be it night. Okay, and it used to be right before they went to bed And that worked for a while when all the kids went to bed at about the same time But once the older one got older and had soccer practice activities Then it sort of split up the moment and we decided that we had to pivot and move it to the mornings Believe me and Melissa gonna test this. I am not a morning person. I do not like mornings wow And we had to do it this morning. We got up at really really this morning. So I you know I didn't want to have do-o-shows in the morning But it's kind of like one of those things are like well if it if not now then it won't happen And so we decided that we were gonna do it in the mornings now because we did it in the mornings It we had to had we had to follow my my own advice there had to be simple achievable Yeah, because you're not gonna get kids out of bed. Yeah 45 minutes earlier than they have to be yeah for something like that You guys now are empty nesters You so you yeah you guys like Have just seen your kids in every stage of life almost right? You have a child in the 20s. Yeah, yeah 19 year old yeah 19 22 and 25 and what I hear though when you when you guys are talking I hear like labor like you guys Labored and a lot of long hours all of these hours kind of accumulated over the years I guess my question is what are the benefits like what are the fruit that you saw that produced in your children With all of these mornings that you were tired Because it could be encouraged into young people with young kids now is like okay. I hope this produces some fruit I think that's really the heartbeat behind why we even wrote this book is because I think we were shocked Shot at the fruit of faithful regular time in the Bible as a family. We thought okay I know I should do this and of course we believe that it would do good things in general But I don't think we really apprehended what it would do and the and the fruit has been amazing And I don't think it's amazing merely because we're so excited about where our kids are spiritually But we are excited where they are spiritually But just watching how they're grown Theologically and how they're understanding the Bible works how their instincts are driven by scripture in a way that You know, we just look back and they're just so thankful so it just is set a trajectory That's really been life-changing. That's good. It's unbelievable to me our Our oldest is on the mission field yeah, and she's in a predominantly Muslim nation and I realize she just knows stuff and it's just You know, it's like she just marinated in it so long and our our 19 year old is at a large public University of college University every Friday she goes up on the main street with her roommate And she does street evangelism Yeah, and I'm just sitting there and I'm like Okay, I mean it but what she'll say is she was kind of surprised she was like I actually know how to answer people. - That's good. - And you know, we so think, I think we felt a little bit like, are we gonna be too much for these children? And is it just, I almost had a negative view of, this is gonna sound terrible, of Christians growing up in a Christian home, because I kinda came to faith apart from my family. And so I became a Christian through a high school ministry. And I felt like it was my own. And like I almost grew more in that way, because my faith had become my own. And so I was like, is this gonna just make the kids hate this stuff? Well, and some kids do, the Lord's got to save our children. We always wanna say kids aren't saved through it, are parenting, they're saved by grace alone, through faith alone, you know, Ephesians. But what I would say is, if the spirits are working their life and they become Christians, what an inheritance they have. Think about it. If you had been learning little verses, all your childhood, it's just in there. - Yeah, that's beautiful. - So if the spirit awakens their heart, they've got riches galore. Just 'cause of all these 10 minute little things you tried to do imperfectly along the way, but all of those years add up. (upbeat music) - I got one quick question back. 'Cause I'm just intrigued by what you said, when you're doing a said, I know I wanna answer people. I love that as an evangelist, 'cause I love evangelism, but one of the reasons why I love that, I do a lot of like a polygetic and evangelism conferences. And one thing that I've noticed is that a lot of, sometimes mothers, sometimes fathers come there, looking for answers for their children who left the nest once a college and got rocked by a different ideology or different worldview. And sometimes you can see them like the Christian faith. A lot of people in the Christian faith, they have like this reactionary faith. That says, let me try to look for resources when our kids stumbles upon false truth. And so like what was the process of developing? I think good thinkers. - Oh yeah, nice of you. - You're great. - This has been a passion of mine for a long time. - Talk about that. - Here you say that because this is something that's been on my heart for years. And this actually is related to a different book, one that I wrote in a number of years ago called Surviving Religion 101, which was a book for college students on how to navigate the complexities of intellectual challenges they had faced in college. And I wrote that for my daughter Emma when she was headed off to be at a big university. And so I wrote this book. It's actually a composed of letters to her about how to keep your intellectual and sort of world view intact while you're at a big university. But here's what I realized as I wrote it, is that even though the college students were using it and being blessed by it, I was so excited for that, the people who are currently the most repairants. And they were like, hey, I gave that to my kid for college and that's great. But I realized that I've got these younger kids still, they're coming up through the ranks. How do I prepare them so that when they get out of the house, they're ready for this? In other words, let's dial it back. Let's not wait till they're 18 to give them a resource. Let's start working on this earlier. - That's good. - So one of the things we did in our house, and this is just something I love to do, is I would play skeptic with my kids. So I would put on the hat of non-Christian professor. And I would start making claims and challenging what they believe in poke and holes and Christianity. And I would say, okay, what would you say to that? - I would love that. - We'd have debates around the table or I would be the skeptical professor and they would be-- - You would be a really bad non-Christian. - Yes, exactly. - You make a really good non-Christian. I'm like, I don't know what I think about that. That's not good. But we would do it in car rides and I would do it around the dinner table and I would just sort of challenge them, say, well, what would you say about that? And they would say this. I was like, well, that doesn't work as a this. And we would just go around and around and around. And it got them to sort of own it. They couldn't just be a faith where you can repeat back a catechism. Although I think there's a usefulness to that. It had to be a faith that you could think on your feet and actually deal with the kind of things. - I love that. That's really dope. - And what is-- - I can see myself doing this. - You could tell me. - You would be great. - But I kind of do my living year old. She's really fun to talk to. But I want to, as my kids get older, my son is four. I can't redo it right now. But you're actually a bit of my heart to do this. - I think everybody gets so negative about the teen years. It's actually-- - I'm really-- - I'm prepared. - Sure. - Jackie said it a lot. She's like, I feel like they go to be more friends. - Yes. - Because I don't really want to talk to you about Bluey for too long. And so I'm saying, I don't know how to engage that with excitement for too much time. - Yeah, my son thinks he's Spider-Man. He's really cute. - Yeah. - He's real cute. But yeah, I don't know. I think what I love about that is that I've always seen that what you did, me and Preston doing that. Just because in our experience with people that go to college or like the universities that we speak to, is like they get to school when they lose their mind. And I'm like, oh, y'all never knew that there were other worldviews outside of the ones that you were probably raised in. And I've always felt like, I don't know if I told you this. My plan is that when they get in high school to re-sert in secular books, and they got to write a paper about it. - Yeah, not a toilet. - Whether that's sexuality, whether that's agnosticism, whether that's like, Black Hebrew is, I don't care what it is. It's like, I want you to be aware of what you're going to face when you get out in the world of UMSA. - Yeah. - 'Cause I just, some of the stuff is legitimate, and some of the stuff is convincingly legitimate. - Yeah, 'cause I've been thinking about my children a lot because I've been going to Alabama State University and talking to you and Q&A's with the crowd this year. And just some of the questions I'm getting, I'm like, yo, why are y'all being rocked by these? And so like, if we could start helping our children think early, I think it can be really great. - Here's an analogy you guys might love in this regard. Years ago, I came across this book from a microbiologist and it caught my eye because of the title. And the book's title was called "Dirt Is Good." And his argument, which is about an unrelated subject, but it fits the bill as an analogy, is that the reason kids' immune systems can be so bad and not kicked in is because their parents have protected them from germs for so long when they grew up, using hand sanitizers and special soaps and keeping them from ever getting any diseases. By the time they turned 16, they never been sick a day in their life. And it turns out they get sick and they get really badly sick because they never had their immune system kicked in because they never had germs along the way. And I use that as a spiritual analogy, as parents, we've got to expose our kids to these non-Christian rule of views in small doses, so to speak, so they can be inoculated. - That's a really great analogy. - And you gotta catch coldly ones, so it won't kill you in a second. - Yeah, don't bubble up. You think you're doing your kid a favor if he's never heard of a non-Christian before he's turned 18 and you're not. You need to give him some insights or hurt some insights on what to expect. - Wow, that's pretty good. - And when you have those conversations, this was the most fun thing just last week. Our daughter is coming back, and they, you know, in college, you all take, they all drive to the beach. This is North Carolina because we're close to the beach. They're driven for the day of the beach. They're in their car and there are five college kids and they're talking about evolution and they're talking about, I don't know all the different habits. - Speaking in tongues, all kinds of stuff. - And so she's like, "Hey, let's call my dad and ask him." I can't tell you, I mean, like all the things like, oh, you wanna call your dad and ask him and I really believe in him. - I mean, and my dad, he was a professor, I'm a pro-reductor, I'm a comedy too. - I'll say it's time for you every day. - But you know, you think, oh, like, but I really think you fostered such good conversations, not forcing answers, but fostering conversations. - That's good. - Yeah, 'cause if you just always say the answer, they're gonna stop talking to you. Rather than like, no, let's dig in together. - And that teaches them how to think though. - In dogs too, I think. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - You mentioned Deuteronomy 6, and I just wanna read it with a question. Starting at verse four, it says, "Hero Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart "and with all your soul and with all your might." And these words that I command, "You shall today, shall be on your heart, "you shall teach them diligently," a told that word in our mind, "to your children, "and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, "and when you walk by the way, "and when you lie down and when you rise, "you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, "and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes, "you shall write them on the doorposts of your house "and on your gates." I bring out the word diligently because how did y'all develop the discipline to disciple when you're tired? And not even just tired with life, but tired, you might have something going on in your marriage, you might have something going on with your job, you might be wrestling with some mental stuff, you might be, you know what I'm saying? And it can become easier to lay that to the side in light of what you're going through. So. - Well, I mean, one thing I'll add, I know Melissa's got things to add too, is that a reminder that part of creating this culture in your home is not solely on the devotional time. The devotional time is what you might call the anchor for it, but as the passage you just read indicated, you're kind of always teaching your children in life when you're standing, when you're rising, when you're walking, when you're going. And so I would encourage parents to realize that, you know, don't hinge everything on this. realize there's a bigger system of how they're going to learn from your example. from the way you interact with people in the world on a daily basis. That's going to help sort of deal with something they sing. So in that sense, you know, sometimes you can feel like if I miss a family devotional, I'm, my family's doomed. You know, I'm like, well, no, he's bigger than that. And there's more to be said than that. But then in terms of speaking about how we keep going on the family devotional, so let me also say, no, we're about that. I'm like, if three piece. Oh my, you're pulling out a little bit of a little bit. Oh yeah. I am. No, that's terrible. Teacher, Melissa. I think place, a plan and a pattern. And here's those things actually help you when you're tired. Because like because it was every morning in the same place at the kitchen table, the kids were just there. And so it wasn't like I had to drum it up. It's kind of just what the hat, it was the habit and then having a plan for what you do that just makes it that much easier when you're tired. Because here's the real. I make it up every time. Yeah. Yeah. Brand new. Yeah. Yeah. And then it just becomes such the pattern that kids just expect this is what we do on Monday morning or whatever. Like I remember we were on vacation one time and we were on vacation. So we weren't necessarily going to go to church that Sunday. We advocate going to church on Sunday. But in our kids were like, what do you mean? We got to go to church. It was such the pattern that they actually were taking us to church. Yeah. And so I think sometimes the habits become the very helps that we need when we're tired. That's cool. Yeah. You know, they pull us along. But it is the hard part. It's just like exercise is beginning. But I will just challenge our like culturally. We are getting our kids to soccer practice. We are getting our kids to dance practice. We're getting our kids to later on to all these things. And so sometimes we may have to also I'll give another purge. We may have to purge. We have to get rid of something and I didn't have any of those. My mom, we may have to get rid of something so that we can make it happen. But at some point every family has got to say, what is this family going to be about? Yeah. It's good. You know, I'm thinking about the single parent. Wow. And how you, because I mean, that could, it's, it's a little bit easier because we're sharing a good burden. Right? Like, and we're, we're both able to like manage and stew at the home together. But I'm thinking about the woman or the man who is taking care of children by themselves and working and doing all the things and now saying like, ah, I got a disciple too. And it's like, I guess what would be encouragement to them? My biggest encouragement is Timothy. Uh-huh. You know, I mean, when Paul writes the second letter to Timothy, he said, you know, the faith that lived in your mom and your grandma, not his, the dad's not mentioned. We don't know what his story was. But just that encouragement that, you know, a single parent can really have a lot of power to pass on faith from one generation to the next. And he says, you know, in the Holy Scripture since infancy, it must have been his mom who was teaching those. And so, and then that became Timothy. Yeah. Who became, you know, this great disciple of Paul. And so I think just being encouraged, the word and the spirit, again, that's how the Lord's going to make your child wise for salvation. And, and I think a lot of prayer. That's great. Yeah, also just want to add to my, you know, I grew up with a single mom who didn't necessarily raise me in church. But because she knew she couldn't give me a lot, she made sure she always had to put me around Godly men. And I think that's what the role of the church, local church, got to go there. That's very point. I was going to say that what you said, you've got to utilize the tools available to you that might be outside the home. Yeah. And make sure you put your child in a place where they can find a mentor, find a voice that adds to you. Yeah. The other thing that's interesting too, you mentioned single parents. But there's also people who are married to people who aren't Christians. Yeah. So they effectively are single parents as it pertains to raising your kids as Christians, even though they're actually married, right? Their spouse doesn't share their faith. And that actually may be what's going on with Timothy's mother and grandmother. Because we have a lot of evidence from the ancient world that women converted to Christianity in great numbers in the early stages. And lots of times their husbands did not. And so you have a lot of mixed marriages in these early stages, interestingly. Where you have a lot of women who are converted, but the husbands aren't. And they have to raise their kids following Christ. And Timothy is the poster child for that. Well, um, still. Yeah, I've actually, I feel like we were part of a conference one time in somebody from the Q&A asked that question about how, you know, they would teach their child something and then daddy would contradict it. And just that constant wrestle of like, what do I? That's hard. What do I do with that? Yeah, I ever counsel somebody with that. That's hard. I don't know if I've ever had a person that I've tried to counsel about that, but I certainly know of many cases like that. And these mixed marriages are really hard. Sometimes the, the unbelieving spouse just sort of lets it be. So they don't, they don't sort of get in the way of it, right? Because they're not, they're not, they don't really care about religion, do what you want. But other times they do what you describe, which is they're actively opposing. Yeah. What you're saying to your child and the child is in a tug of war. Theological and practical tug of war with, with the parents. That is just really, really difficult. And that's going to take a lot of prayer and a lot of perseverance for a, for a single parent, effectively a single parent to work their way through that. Wow. Yeah, I think that's when your character shines. Oh my god. You don't know if that's so for sure. Where it's like, I want to live up to or live out everything that I'm communicating in such a way that it actually reveals that what I'm saying is true. You know, I think there's some, some power in that. So we got a question yesterday on Instagram and we've kind of answered it, but we have an answer. It's really simple, but like, how do you start giving the gospel to toddlers? That's interesting. I think, you know, one of the things we learned is parents, and you guys have learned this too. And anybody who's a parent knows this is that kids pick up things a lot quicker than you think they do. Yeah. So the term toddlers of egg terming, what exactly counts as a toddler is that some of which in one four probably is the general age that people consider a child to be a toddler of some sort. Four is probably way on the upper end of that, but kids can really pick up a lot more than we know. And I don't mean just intellectually, but they pick up what intangibles. They pick up a family vibe, a family feel. They also pick up the parental example. And so lots of times we tell people, it's not even just what we say and teach our kids from the Bible that is the most influential on them. It's actually our examples of the most influential on them. They're going to end up looking like us. Which is scary. And we tend to think our kids don't pay attention, don't listen, don't watch. They don't want to be anything like mom and dad on one level. That's true, but also studies have shown on the level that's not true. They actually try to emulate you in ways that are not surprising. And toddlers are really good at emulating their parents. You can see them follow dad around their room or mom around the room trying to look and act like them. So one thing I would just say is that don't be discouraged by thinking they're not picking up on anything. They're actually probably more perceptive than you realize. Yeah. That's good. I would also say have rules. This is going to be. Yeah, how do you teach grace? How do you teach the gospel? Well, the law came first so that we might understand our inability to keep it in our actual need for grace. So I think sometimes people think, oh gracious home, that means there. Yeah, we don't have rules, we don't have standards. Let's see how that goes. Yeah. I mean, it's actually okay to have a standard. But then when the standards broken, how do we walk them through that? That's great. That's good. That's excellent. You know, and so I mean, I would say one of one of the biggest discipleship things is how do you say you're sorry and how do parents say they're sorry to their kids and all of those things. But yeah. Yeah, Jen Wilkin, I don't know when she said this, but it's been a framework for me, which she's like when your kids are young, it's high frequency low depth. The older they get, it's high depth low frequency. And so that's just kind of eased my attention when it comes to, yeah, it ain't got to be that deep. You know what I'm saying? And one example is I was telling the person this other day, sage. I was just about to ask you that question. Talk about it. Yeah, because I don't remember what she said. I was like, I was going to ask you what is sage, sage. So sage, she just woke up. She's been randomly talking about the Lord. Yeah. And she. She was five. And so she was trying to do something or whatever and I was like, we should just pray about it. And she was like, I don't want to pray. God doesn't answer my prayers. And I was like, what do you mean? He doesn't answer you. And I'm like, this is already deep to me. I'm like, what do you mean he doesn't answer your prayers? And she said during nap time, I couldn't go to sleep. And I asked him to help me go to sleep. And he didn't let me go to sleep. So he doesn't answer my prayers. Wow. And I said, it's good. I said, well, you know, when you ask me something, I say, no, sometimes. And she was like, yes. I said, so sometimes God says no. But that's also an answer. And she was like, okay. But it was like, but it's engaging her world. But also communicating a truth that even adults don't understand is that God can say no. And we not even dealing with the fact that you probably, you got ADHD, tend to see from your daddy. And so that's why you can't go to sleep. But I'll see you next time. I think that that's kind of just been a rhythm, I think it not like me like engaging them where they are, but even for her to have a conception of prayer, a concept of God is her picking up on us in church and us, I'm not the Lord and us praying. Like for her to even pray during that time, I was just like, oh, I never told you to do that. That's still-- - And what a grace to have that answer from you. Because you're right, there are a lot of adults walking around saying, yeah, I'm not praying because God doesn't answer my prayer. And here she is at five learning a deep truth that she's gonna actually take all of her life. She will remember that. I hope so. She will. And it's good. You know, but that's that along the way. Yeah. - It's parents are the first theologians your kids will ever meet. And the issue is, are they in contact with a good theologian or not? Right? The better theologians we can be, the better biblical reasoners we can be. I mean, our kids are gonna really be blessed by that. So what a great answer. You were able to give her. - That came off the hip. 'Cause it's 6.45. I don't know what to say. - I don't know what to say. It was no buccone. I thought it was a such good question. - A. A. D. Theologian. - Such a question. - My, our kids always, all three of them ask really good questions. And our joke around the house is, they're actually pretty, pretty unimpressed with my answers from other people. - Super unimpressed. - They might think, dad, aren't you a Bible scholar? Aren't you a professor? I'm like, well, yeah, I know. That wasn't good. That's not an answer. - I'm gonna do the hype. - That's bloody. - So I feel like I'm a perpetual disappointed to them in terms of these complex questions. - Wow. - 'Cause kids ask tough ones. - They do. And this is fascinating. But we are thankful that y'all have created a resource from lived experience for us to just be able to create homes where Jesus is central. You know? And so I just, I don't know. I'm thankful. I've been challenged. I've been encouraged. I've been very impressed in the Catholic conversation. - Yeah, absolutely. - We gotta get the book, sit at the table, start going through Mark, you know what I'm saying? I don't wanna go through John. Well, I love John, but I don't know how to expect 'cause I love John. - I love John. - I love John. - I am Statenman. - Oh, here our next one could be on John. - I know. - Now it should be, make it 30 days. - Stay with the snouted guys. - Well, thank you, Kroger. - We love y'all. - We love you. - We love you. - Thanks for having us. - Bye y'all. - With the pairs is produced by the pairs with support from Amanda Reed and Channing McBride, video recording and audio production by Matthew Baxter and Xavier Fairly, edited by the team at Tread Lively, artwork by Hop. Thank you for listening. Now go with God.