Compete or Retreat: Energy, Ambition and Canada’s Future: Greg Ebel, President & CEO, Enbridge Inc.

[MUSIC PLAYING] This is the video before the event. It's job to get you to silence your phones and take your seats. How will you do that? Let's try a few things. [MUSIC PLAYING] Please stand by. Please stand by. Do we have your attention yet? Don't worry. This isn't a scolding, just a friendly, albeit loud, nudge to get your attention. [MUSIC PLAYING] Wowie. And now for one last tried and true method, a classic countdown. Five, four, three, two, one. The event starts now. [MUSIC PLAYING] There is a place, a place that belongs to all of us, a place with a beauty all its own, a place graced by the presence of trailblazers, from Winston Churchill to the Dalai Lama, Audrey Hepburn, to Messiah Jerry, and the Toronto Raptors, visionaries, leaders, artists, storytellers, athletes, those who come here, come here with purpose, with lifelines packed full of experience and unique perspectives. Not all were in history books. Not everyone a household name, but every voice, important. 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And our VIP reception season sponsors, LSDON, McKinsey, and Company, the Ontario Road Builders Association, and Waste Connections of Canada. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] And finally, to our media-- thank you to our media partner, the Toronto Star, Arna A.V. partner, B-Spoke, Audi Visual. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Now, if you have a question for our speakers today, please scan the QR code found on your program, or through the Q&A function online. If for those online, if you require technical assistance, please use the chat feature. Now, we're here today at a moment of immense possibility for our country. A hinge moment, as Prime Minister Karni would say. Build, baby build. That is the rallying cry for nation-building projects. That includes critical infrastructure and energy projects that will make Canada more prosperous, competitive, and sovereign. The federal government has signaled growth as a key priority, and many in our business community are ready to answer the call. But the questions loom. How do we act with confidence, wisdom, and speed? As you know, the Empire Club has a proud history of convening leading voices at pivotal junctures. Back in 1973, Alberta Premier Peter Laheed, speaking from this very podium, observed that Canada faced a shifting global order and warned at that time. The period of comfortable and special trade relations with the United States appears to be subsiding. How prophetic. Imagine what he would say today. Undeniably, the competitive pressure from our southern neighbor looms large, and the world is rapidly reordering. That is precisely why today's conversation matters deeply. How do we turn the alignment of political will, business readiness, and public expectations into real momentum? How do we build infrastructure and build trust? How do we unlock opportunity, not in theory, but in action and with speed? To help us address these questions, we are very fortunate to have with us today Mr. Greg Ebel, president and CEO of Enbridge, whose leadership in Canada's energy sector gives him a unique vantage point on how we can move forward with both ambition and purpose. His keynote remarks will come a little later in the program. But first, I'd like to thank our lead sponsor, Aikon, whose support helps make this gathering possible. Let's start with a short video showcasing their role in nation building. From the landmarks that help define a nation to the essential infrastructure that connects communities, drives economic growth, and powers a brighter tomorrow. Aikon is an North American construction and infrastructure development company with global expertise, transforming vision into reality. For more than 150 years, we've been building a diverse and dynamic portfolio, and today proudly deliver some of the largest, most complex infrastructure projects in the world. Across multiple and diverse sectors, we provide integrated solutions for our clients that span the full project life cycle, from project development, financing and investment to construction and operations and maintenance services. And we strive to do it all safely and sustainably, with a focus on decarbonization and helping our clients navigate the global energy transition. At Aikon, we're building smarter, drawing on the latest technology to shape the future of construction, and to find innovative solutions to today's most formidable infrastructure challenges. And every day across our operations, our skilled workforce is guided by our values, safety, integrity, accountability, inclusion, as we remain committed to keeping our people and communities safe and our projects moving forward. At Aikon, we're not just delivering the infrastructure of tomorrow. We're building what matters to enable future generations to thrive. Thank you, Aikon. [ Applause ] We're also very proud to have RBC Capital Markets as a lead sponsor of today's event. RBC has been at the center of Financing Canada's growth story for decades, helping to build the industries and infrastructure that make our economy competitive. Leading that effort today is Derek Neldner, CEO of RBC Capital Markets, and a member of RBC's Group Executive. Derek oversees the firm globally and helps set the strategy for RBC's corporate investment banking and global market activities. He brings nearly three decades of experiencing experience, advising companies on mergers and acquisitions, and debt and equity financing, and continues to work closely with many of Canada's most important businesses. Please join me in welcoming Derek to the podium. [ Applause ] Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you, Sorom, and thank you to the Empire Club of Canada for hosting all of us today. I'm Derek Neldner, CEO of RBC Capital Markets, and it's my pleasure to welcome you all to today's event, and we look forward to an engaging and thought-provoking conversation on energy, ambition, and Canada's future. We're here at a pivotal moment for our country. A moment where Canada has the opportunity to align its ambitions with real action, and where the choices we make today will define our future on the global stage. As we consider these choices, it's critically important to bring together businesses, government, and individuals across geographies and generations and to make progress on some of the fundamental challenges that we're facing today. This is core to RBC's business and culture, where we believe we not only have an important role to play, but also a responsibility to support progress towards a more inclusive, sustainable, and prosperous future. And while as a country we faced headwinds, with momentum building to advance policy change, accelerate energy development, build required infrastructure, and unlock the capital and investment to strengthen our economic security and sovereignty, I personally think it's a very exciting time for Canada. And I know in that regard we're all eager to better understand and support the path towards unlocking the country's potential as a global energy superpower. Energy infrastructure will obviously play a critically important role in enabling this vision, fueling Canada's economy and resilience and ensuring the country remains competitive in an increasingly complex and fast-changing world. And I can think of nobody better suited to address these critically important topics than Greg Ebel, President and CEO of Enbridge. Greg's vision for Canada's energy future is grounded on the belief that energy infrastructure is a foundation for economic growth and a pathway to greater security, resilience, and long-term prosperity. Greg is a global leader who not only understands the challenges we face today, but also the significant opportunities that lie ahead and importantly what it will take to capitalize on them. Under Greg's leadership, Enbridge has undertaken some of the most transformative changes in the sector, reinforcing its position as a global leader in energy delivery both today and in the future. Notably, when appointed President and CEO in 2023, Greg over saw Enbridge's $14 billion acquisition of gas utilities from Dominion Energy. And during his time as Chairman, President and CEO of Spectra Energy, he played a pivotal role in the landmark merger with Enbridge, valued at $37 billion at the time, creating North America's largest energy infrastructure company. Greg has also been a champion of the importance of strong stakeholder alignment and shared prosperity, including as a vocal proponent of indigenous partnerships and as being the first choice partner in the communities that Enbridge serves. I think you would agree Greg has built a remarkable career as a visionary leader and brings a wealth of experience and energy expertise as we look to frame our ambition and build for Canada's future. Thank you again to all of you for joining us today and please join me in welcoming Greg Evil. (upbeat music) Well, thanks very much, Derek, I appreciate the very kind words of introduction and thanks to Sir Rob and Kent for the invitation to the Empire Club. Great to be back in Ontario. Some of you may not know, but this is where I was born and I was raised and my family is very deep roots here. My dad's family came as Empire Loyalist some 250 years ago and my family continues to live in a Hawkely Valley. And I'm thrilled to see all of you, because I bet every one of you is an Enbridge customer and pays your bill on time so I want to thank you for that. Ontario, of course, therefore, is a special place, not just for me personally, but also for our company. Now, 70 years ago, Canada made a choice that defined a century. We built the St. Lawrence Seaway, a continental gateway that connected our products and our economy to world markets. It was a monumental feat of both engineering and foresight, a shared effort that took vision and resolve. When the locks opened, the ships began to move, our economy began to move with them. Prairie grain, flowed, Ontario manufacturing reached further. Canadian ambition met global demand. And as with the railroad in the 19th century, we were reminded of a national truth that still exists today. When Canada builds, Canada prospers. Today, our country and our economy faces another pivotal moment. The world is restless and changing fast, and we can't stop or control that. Our trading partners are rewiring supply chains. Energy security is now national and economic security. Capital is nervous. We all know that, flowing towards certainty and results. But Canadians, practical as ever, are asking straightforward questions. Will we have the courage to take advantage of this moment? Will we once again build and prosper? Or will we miss the opportunity again? Two years ago, many of you were here when I addressed the Toronto Board of Trade. At that time, I spoke of missed opportunity on major energy projects and how we were creating the conditions for the world to move forward without us. Today, I stand before you again and I'll put it plainly. We can no longer talk, we can't walk anymore. We need to run and fast. The last ten years have been a competitiveness disaster for Canada. But the next ten can be a renaissance. If we choose to lead, this is our second chance. One doesn't often get second chances. And it's a better opportunity than it was before. But it comes with much higher stakes and less time to take action. I believe we can build. I believe we can compete. I believe we can win. But winning requires decisions. Urgent, confident, investible decisions. Decisions that will lead Canada to becoming the best place in the world to build energy, infrastructure, and critical resource projects that fuel jobs and growth right across our entire economy. So let's be clear about the stakes. Energy really isn't a niche file. It is a core driver of Canadian prosperity. The energy sector contributes more than ten percent of our national GDP. It's the centerpiece of trade, making up about one third of the total Canadian goods that are exported. From a Toronto perspective, these are numbers that sit alongside and often anchor the fortunes of financial services, manufacturing, and technological ecosystems. In other words, this is not a provincial story. This is not a regional story. This is a quintessential Canadian story. The Prime Minister has made it clear that he recognized both the importance and the potential of the energy industry. He's pledged to create the conditions to become, and I quote, "A superpower of both clean and conventional energy." On election night, he declared without hesitation, "It was time to build, baby build," this Rob said. That language matters. That enthusiasm matters. I love it. And we welcome the governments follow through, including Bill C5, which, while not perfect, begins to modernize infrastructure projects to be built in this country. That said, we have a very long way to go. Yes, Canada has extraordinary resources, a skilled workforce, and leading environmental standards. Yet we are not moving fast enough. Projects linger, the permit process stretches on. Capital looks elsewhere. At Enbridge, we know this firsthand. We have tried to build nation-building pipelines, and we have the scars to prove it. 500 million scars to be quite honest. And those are pensioners and retail investors and employees that took on that risk, and it was difficult. Earlier this year, a public policy forum report put it plainly. Canada has the tools and the talent to lead, but our processes too often slow or stall projects. Before they reach a final investment decision, the report counts more than $600 billion in proposed or active resource infrastructure projects. If we move on them decisively, the modeling shows that there is some 1.1 trillion with a T in additional GDP by 2035. That's real, measurable prosperity and jobs waiting to be unlocked. And let's be clear, this isn't about the government doing the building far from it. Markets build when governments establish clear rules, set credible timelines, and make consistent decisions. That's partnership that we're calling for because the energy sector is ready to invest, ready to partner, partner with indigenous nations, and deliver for the country. Our ask is a simple one. Match our urgency. Speed is a necessity. It is not a nice to have. I often hear that we have a need to approve projects as fast as other jurisdictions. My friends, I'm afraid we don't have that luxury anymore. That would be too little, too late. We are losing this race. We now need to be a lot faster than the competition just to catch up. Just to create confidence. Now I recognize that's uncomfortable to hear. As a Canadian, it's uncomfortable to say, but it's the situation that we put ourselves in thanks to a decade where political vanity ran roughshod over economic utility. This past spring, shortly after Election Day, I joined with 37 other CEOs from Canada's energy industry, and together we wrote a letter to our newly elected Prime Minister. At the opening of Parliament just a few weeks ago, we followed that up with another letter. This one was signed by nearly 100 CEOs representing companies across the energy value chain. The largest six of these companies alone make up 10% of the TSX. It's a serious group of patriots. We outlined five key government actions that would put Canada in a position to seize the moment and take a step forward in fulfilling the Prime Minister's goal of creating an energy superpower. The first, we need smarter, simpler regulation. Consider the Federal Impact Assessment Act and the West Coast Tanker Band. Together, they increase both cost and uncertainty and stifle investment. Canadian project approvals are so complex and unpredictable that even the most responsible indigenous supported and environmentally sound projects can be delayed for years sometimes indefinitely or worse. A government changes the rules of the game with a stroke of the pen after approvals were granted. No one can be a proponent in that jurisdictional quagmire. None of us is calling for weaker environmental oversight. Let's be clear about that. Instead, we are urging government to adopt smarter, clearer, faster processes so that we can attract investment, take risks, and build for tomorrow. Let's build a sustainable system that offers certainty and predictability without sacrificing standards. We don't need added layers or jurisdictions to do that. What we need is the courage to act. If we get regulation right, we don't just kick start projects, re-restore Canada's reputation and spark new global confidence in this country as a destination for capital. And let's be honest, we don't have enough capital at home here in Canada. We need to attract investors from abroad to build all the projects we are interested in completing. We need them to be confident in our ability to deliver. Second, we need shorter and more predictable timelines. Getting a project approved today can take five years or longer. Meanwhile, in the United States, timelines are shortening. In Europe, permitting reforms are already underway. Canada cannot afford to be the slowest mover in a quickening world. The Prime Minister has pledged to complete major federal projects reviews in two years. That's a good start, though with digital permitting clear expectations and concurrent reviews by agencies, I think we could do even better. And if we can do major projects in less than two years, why can't we do smaller projects in half or a third of that time? Surely we are capable of that in Canada. Meeting shorter timelines would give large and small project proponents confidence in their own commitments to their investors. Investors don't need a guarantee of approval, but they do need a guarantee of a timely decision. The third government action. We need to reward progress, not punishing. Right now, Canada's unlegislated emissions cap on oil and gas is creating unnecessary uncertainty. It threatens to arbitrarily limit production even in the cases where Canadian oil and gas producers are reducing emissions per barrel and investing in cleaner operations. Not to mention helping the world's poorest and least sustainable countries do better. Let's look at the numbers. Canada's contribution to global emissions dropped from 1.75% in 2006 to 1.42% in 2022 and it continues downward. Canada is part of the solution. We are not the problem. We are well positioned to use our energy to help countries like China and India transition away from coal, a net benefit for both nations and the world. That's good news that Canada is finally moving towards a major LNG project being completed and at last opening the door for exports to Asia. But this is overdue progress. A win for Canadian workers, yes, and a step towards a resilient energy, yes. But it's a decade later than it should have been. And the worst thing about it? The United States of America be Canada to the puck, growing eight operational export terminals over the past decade from zero. With another eight under construction now and ten more already approved. Fourth, we need to attract investment with coherent and competitive policy. The current federal carbon levy on emitters is amongst the highest in the world. And from a competitiveness perspective, it's a silent killer of jobs and investment in this country. Canada is the only country among the top ten oil producing nations that imposes a federal carbon tax on its oil exporting businesses. Why are we tying one arm and one leg behind the backs and get of our companies and giving boost to every major competitor? And who are those competitors? The Saudis, the Brazilians, the Russians, and the United States? Seriously, who does that to a key domestic industry and national champions? It makes it harder to plan and harder still to attract long-term investments. So let's use what we know works. Let's empower provinces to tailor their carbon regulation to their local jurisdictions, their economies, because we know that transition to net zero is not linear, it's not uniform form across regions or sectors or markets. And let's design a system that protects our export industries and incentivizes innovation. The fifth and final action that we're calling for. We need to accelerate indigenous partnership and energy projects, including equity participation. True progress must be shared, and that includes meaningful indigenous participation in the things that we build together. The federal government's indigenous Lonegar and T program unlocks access to low-cost capital for indigenous ownership in major projects. In May, the first federal Lonegar and T some $400 million help dozens of first nations acquire a 12.5% interest in our West Coast natural gas system at Enbridge. That's durable revenue, governance voice, and shared prosperity, reconciliation, and action if you will. But let's broaden and accelerate this, because when indigenous nations are owners, projects are better. The timelines are shorter, and the benefits can be shared by all of us. Project equity, I think, is the next frontier for indigenous participation. There's different ways to realize this, but perhaps, perhaps. The major land claims that many indigenous nations look to settle and which the federal government should, and I believe does, feel an obligation to complete, could be a source of equity, should indigenous nations believe that that would be a worthy endeavor and reason to accelerate the conclusion of certain claims. Obviously, an action on that front would need to be recognized and respect indigenous peoples' consultation and processes. These five priorities, these five calls to action become even more essential when you consider the reality of our country and the context of the current moment. Energy is what keeps plants running in Windsor and in Ashewa, data centers humming in the GTA, and homes warm in the winter from Thunder Bay to Port Colbert. When energy is secure, affordable, and sustainable, households have more to spend, manufacturers have costs, certainty, and Canada's exports grow. When it isn't, we all feel it, in our bills, in our paychecks, in our government budgets, in our communities at large, and people get that. Perhaps more than ever before, public opinion in Canada is shifting dramatically. Opinion surveys show that 88 percent, almost nine out of ten of us, now rate oil and gas is important to Canada's economy, a new high. Support for a Western oil pipeline has risen to nearly three quarters of Canadians up from 50 percent just a few years ago. And 72 percent of us agree it's possible to build the new pipeline and reduce greenhouse gas emissions at the same time. Overall, public support for expanding oil and gas exports to help global energy has grown by ten points, ten percentage points, in just the last six months alone. I think the message is clear. Canadians are being pragmatic. They want responsible builds that share the benefits and deliver the results. They recognize that the Canada U.S. Energy Quarter is still our lifeblood, after all 97 percent of Canadian crude exports went to the United States in 2023. They also understand the risk of having only one customer for such an important element of our economic health. Opening additional westward and eastward routes would make our economy more resilient, our allies more secure, and our trade less vulnerable to the next tear of shock, and our sovereignty more robust. The good reason the Alberta government has become a proponent of a pipeline to the North Coast to be seen. The previous government's tanker band effectively makes that export pipeline illegal. No company would build a pipeline to nowhere. The tanker band is a great example of how things will have to change to allow our country to maximize its economic potential. The markets and real demand guide routes and capacities while government focuses on enabling the conditions for success. That includes investing in skills development and trade infrastructure that ties into ports and into rail. An Ontario has a special role to play. Its financial services engine prices risk. It aggregates capital and exports Canadian know-how with every project we finance. Manufacturers and technology firms supply the turbines, the control systems, and software that make modern energy systems efficient and safe. An Ontario's nuclear refurbishments underline a crucial point. Big builds deliver big payoffs when done well. Thousands of jobs, domestic supply chains, and decades of reliable lower carbon power that anchors are competitiveness. In Canada, energy isn't just a western strength. It's an Ontario opportunity and a competitive necessity. And all of Canada would benefit from the people of this province, standing up and speaking loudly in favor of energy projects. Fully recognizing that while the largest of these might be in the west, they all deliver greater prosperity and neck it economic security across our country. So by way of conclusion, I'll say this. As Canadians, we have a reputation for being polite, kind of low-key, maybe even a little self-deprecating. As a Toronto Maple Leaf fan, I fully understand that. But this is no time for modesty or staring at our shoes. This is the time to remind ourselves, we should be the best at this. We should make the most of our resource bounty. We should lead the way and show the world how it's done wisely, responsibly, efficiently, effectively. The needs there, the rationale is there, the public sentiment is there. We've learned some hard lessons in 2025. Perhaps foremost amongst them, we can't blindly rely on others. We need to build for ourselves, take care of ourselves, invest in ourselves. 70 years ago, Canadian leaders chose to develop the St. Lawrence Seaway. We connected our economy to the world and bet on our capacity to deliver. Now is the time for Canadians and Canadian leaders to show more than a little self-interest in our own future and the future of our country. Now not by ignoring the world at large, that has never been the Canadian way, but by recognizing that if we are not healthy as an economy, as a country, as a united people, we will have far less if anything to offer the world in the longer term. A world that will need our values, our innovation, our initiative, and yes, our natural resources. So maybe the choice isn't that tough after all. Let's build Canada now so we can build a better world tomorrow. Thank you. Thank you for your commitment to this great thank you. Thank you so much, Greg. We very much appreciate your insights, your candor, and your sense of urgency for those important calls to action. I want to extend our gratitude for sharing your vision and insights here today, and your call to action on how Canada can compete globally, build with ambition and strengthen our energy future. It sets the perfect stage for the conversation we are about to have. To leave that discussion, we are joined by somebody who knows this file from every ankle, and a return speaker and guest to the club. James Erigen recently joined Stuart McCalvey as senior business advisor following a distinguished career in both politics and journalism. He represented St. John South Mount Pearl, beautiful neighborhood in this country, in parliament for nearly a decade and served Canadians as minister of natural resources, indigenous services, labor, veterans affairs, seniors, and as associate minister of national defense. James also spent years shaping the national conversation as a journalist, including a decade as host of Canada AM. His work has always been about connecting people, whether through public service, media, or his leadership on issues such as reconciliation, clean growth, and mental health. Please join me in welcoming Samus to the stage who will moderate our fireside chat with Greg Ybel. The great thing about interviewing Greg is you knew it would not be boring, and you knew it wouldn't be covered in Frank corporate speak. We've all heard it. You have always spoken very plainly and very frankly on the phone with me during my tenure as an energy minister. And in years later when we spoke when I was at the labor file to about what needs to happen. And one of the things that you brought up here that I wanted to raise, and I think it's really important for an Ontario based audience, albeit a Canadian one, and I know with people from all across the country, is it particularly I found with energy proximity matters. Yeah, so people from Alberta, well Alberta Saskatchewan particularly, but also BC have an understanding of how important the energy industry is to this country. Out my way in Newfoundland and Labrador, we know it extremely well with our offshore industries. So when I came into the role, I understood it's importance. What I've always appreciated about you, and maybe you could speak to it, is including everybody in that, having to remind people, especially a lot of politicians, who represent people in Montreal, downtown Montreal, downtown Vancouver, or downtown Toronto, that oil and gas, conventional energy is essential to this country. And more to the point, doing it right, is something that we should be very proud of. Everybody here does too, like let's just think of it, you mentioned Montreal, large refineries there. How do you think those refineries run? They run on western Canadian crude. We ran a pipeline to Manitoba, go below the lakes, and then head back up into Montreal, we've been doing that forever. That's a nation building project. I think that's why, you know, successive governments, conservative and liberal have been supportive of the Line 5 project and understand Governor Whitmer was here. Yesterday, I'm not always on our Christmas card list, but neither. Yeah, well there you go. But then, you know, that, that product goes into Sarni, there are 24,000 jobs directly and indirectly associated with that oil going into Sarni and Montreal. So, as I said, I mean, this is a Canadian story, it's not a regional story. We have, we have natural gas pipelines into the Maritimes, as you well know. We originally had LNG import there, and maybe there's going to be LNG export there at some point in time, I'm sure people will look at that. So, yeah, this is across the entire country. And, you know, natural gas, Michelle Herdensis here runs her distribution business right across the North America. She would tell you just how much power, and this isn't a dig on anybody. So, much energy comes from natural gas, it's a multiple of electricity, it had about a fifth of the cost here in Ontario. It just says we need all this stuff, but most of that natural gas is not coming from, from Ontario, even though as we know, well the gas was originally found here. People forget petroleum, petroleum, Ontario. Look at the, look at what happened. I lived in Toronto, I moved here in 2000s, lived here for 15 years. The air quality in the city that you could tangibly breathe in and feel when the transition happened from coal to LNG. Yeah, I mean, the natural, it took us a little bit longer to do it here in Ontario. I think Premier McGinty's first goal was like '07, it took us to '14. That's the lesson in that. None of this is easy, and it takes some time, but you've got to start, you've got to get at it, and do it here. And even our, you know, despite the most recent unpleasantness between the nations right now, the United States has lowered its methane emissions carbon footprint by using the change from coal to natural gas in the United States as well. And when you don't get this right, what happens? You get a Germany, you get a Europe, Germany is getting gutted from an industrial perspective, changing it around now. You let somebody else be the dictator of your resources, you know, that famous Russian pipeline on gas, you know, probably one of the most, probably one of the worst geopolitical decisions ever is relying on the Russians for gas. Sounds obvious today, but we walked right into that, and we can't do that here. How are you looking at this country? How do you see the future of LNG now compared to when you spoke about it in the speeches you referred to a couple of years ago? Yeah, brighter. I mean, we're building an LNG facility just outside Vancouver. Obviously there's several projects on the West Coast, LNG Canada. Yeah, I am skeptically optimistic. I am... It's very Canadian. Yeah. And I'm super pumped about the fact that, you know, the engagement with all the communities there that they want this, including Indigenous participation and often Indigenous majority ownership in some of those proposals. I think that's very exciting. I think that's a good lesson to all of us in Canada, you know, when you consult early, you have discussion. People make decisions that are no different than the decisions you and I make, and they want to do them in a manner that's responsible in honoring of the past, but definitely recognize the importance of the future. Yeah, and I think, you know, I think most people here understand that there's no kind of monolithic Indigenous presence, you know, that says yes or no. You know, it's the people that you deal with, the nations that you deal with on the ground, first nations, in the community. It's those people on the ground that you deal with. And so, the people that you're dealing with are as particular to the land in which you're developing in the project that you're considering. Sure. You've had some success in this. And I just, you know, I've led some conversations recently in Newfoundland and Labrador honor, the Upper Churchill project there, which is $33 billion hydroelectric project. And, you know, I'm looking at a crowds of people who I know in Labrador where I grew up, just champion at the bit while I'm on stage talking to Indigenous leaders, how do we do business? And I really wanted to drill down with them the prescriptions, you know, what needs to happen. So, I think there might be some people in this audience who would be very interested to know how you found success in that area. Well, first of all, I think it's a part of the value proposition at Enbridge. And I don't mean value from an economic perspective, but one flows to the other. But I think the values of the people at Enbridge, I mean, for a very long time, we've tried to get this right. We've made mistakes along the way, and we've learned. And that consultative process, that process where, look, I can't control what happened in the past. But I can help be part of the future. And a recognition that we all want the same thing in the end right, clean water, clean air, economic vitality, jobs, and security. And I think if you start on that, you get to the right spot. And equally recognizing that there is a self-determination, the same way that some of you will leave this room and buy Enbridge stock. And some of you may not, that's self-determination of people. And equally so we have, as you know, hundreds of nations across this country, and not all of them will want to participate in that project. That's okay. But we have to give the opportunity for those nations to make that decision on their own. We can't have the federal government, or companies say, yeah, they probably don't want to participate, let's not talk to them. That was the old world, let's know it. So, there isn't really a magic recipe other than get out there and talk. Do it with respect. Do it with recognizing that, you know, there's a whole bunch of aspects to this that, when we may not have been part of historically, we're part of it today. And do it with some humility. And you might fail, but you're not going to fail in the process. But you might succeed. And, you know, I look across that sovereign wealth funds around the globe. And a lot of those, you know, powerful ones, I think about Alaska, I think about the Utes in Utah, that those are indigenous led organizations that have, you know, either settled land claims, or whatever the issue may be, their choice. And now they're investing in all parts of the economy at their choice, at their decision, because they think that's right. So, I mean, you know, this, it's a process. We've been, we've been very fortunate. Great team of folks at Enbridge on the liquid side, part of our system in Alberta. A dozen or so indigenous nations on a piece of that. And now the recent one I mentioned in my comments, almost 40 nations on a piece of the natural gas pipeline system that is fueling. They're delivering gas to those LNG facilities. And the lower mainland, by the way, they own 12 and a half percent of that. So, I mean, you've been in the seat there. I mean, wouldn't that be interesting if nations decide on their own, on their own free will, that any land claims were settled? Wouldn't that be interesting if they decided to? It was right for them based on their views to invest in Canadian infrastructure. Some will. No, absolutely, somewhat. Some are, again, championed a bit for it. The equity, I mean, having them involved in an equity position means ownership. So much of this, as you know, when you've been dealing with nations, is about showing respect. And when you have an ownership agreement with a nation, it makes all the difference in terms of empowering them and making them feel positive about the project. And I don't think, Shameless, we have to be concerned about the nation's indigenous nations in Canada having different views. You saw that writ large yesterday, the premier of Alberta, who is putting forth her ideas, a great proponent for the province, and the industry had indigenous partners with her. At the same time, there were other indigenous nations in the country. For a pipeline, you're building her work. I think that would be very early to be saying that. There are about five things I can repeat them that would need to be done. But I think it's a, before that actually happens. But I think it's a good example of, we don't all have to agree. We do have to move forward. When you look at provincial governments too, because, I mean, federal government plays a big role. And I think one of the biggest roles of plays is signaling its openness to that investment. To make sure those things happen. So even on the ground, if you're doing it, if you're not sending those signals to investors, then that's a problem. And the same also goes for provincial government. I mean, so much as you know, relies on, I mean, the provinces hold most of the keys here when it comes to development in this country. Yeah, and let's not be too myopic, right? As to the states, as to the federal government, the United States, and for many of the companies in this room and people in this room. And as we know, our lifeblood is trade. There are choices. So I, the signals are great. Like I think Minister Hodgson and the prime minister have been excellent at providing those signals. But you know, the guy down south isn't exactly sitting around, right? There's a lot of changes that are happening rapidly in Europe too. So yeah, I think, I think the time for action is now. Looking south of the board, and it never ends. I mean, I can recite, you know, what happened yesterday, but that would have been outdated by something that you're probably reading on the phone that, you know, happened 10 seconds ago. How do, what is your medium-term outlook on the US right now? Well, I think, like a lot of nations, there's a lot of upheaval. But it is the largest economy in the world by far. And I wouldn't bet against the United States Goldie Hyder is here. He said something today at a little discussion we were having that most countries would die to be in Canadian, in Canada's position to be next door to the largest, most powerful economy in the world. So I, you know, look, I can only tell you about two thirds of our $30 billion or so investment are going south of the border. Not because we don't want to invest there, but the opportunities are better right now. And the opportunities for returns are better right now. That's hard for a Canadian to say, but that's a reality of the situation. Just like all of us, I think we'll, we'll model through, right? The great thing is you've always got, if you don't like the situation in the United States, you're going a little bit more rapid than up here, just wait, you know, there'll be election again next year. You know, I don't know where the house in the Senate's going to go. There'll be election after that for the House in the Senate again and the White House. So there are dynamic places. You had the premier of Michigan here. Her and the President aren't exactly buddy buddy, but they are trying to find ways to work together. And so I think, yeah, I think the economy will continue to roll and we have to recognize, and I think they do, they may not say it, that we are a vital player to that economy as well. There's a reason why there never has been, nor do I think there ever will be tariffs on oil and gas going to the United States. We ship four and a half, five million barrels a day to the United States. Our customers in Canada want us to move it there. Why is that? It's because it's the best market for their product, right? So, yeah, I like, like here, I'm optimistic two very different leaders, but bless them both. Thank you for your service. I sure as heck wouldn't run for office. I think it's incredibly difficult, and it's hard enough running companies these days, and they have a lot of things to try to balance. I get to face my voters every year and shareholder votes and stuff like that. That's hard enough, but I can imagine trying to balance things and caucus and all those various crazy stuff to go on. So, what we can do is hope, regardless of your view of either one of the leaders in the country, that they're actually successful because our economy relies on it. Yeah, and that's how you keep the country together. It's just listening to all sides like that. I'm going to take some questions from the audience, but before I do, I just wanted to ask you about this moment, because a lot has changed politically and therefore, I think economically. And I'm not, you know, necessarily speaking about the election, but speaking, I think more particularly about the Canadian public. What happened after Donald Trump became president again, and his comments about manifest destiny in the 51st state rattled people in this country. I had Pete Buttigieg, I interviewed last week in Ottawa, and it was very frank with him about, you know, it rattled us big time. Now, we have a prime minister who says, you know, it is a pivot moment, as you said earlier. But, you know, moments in public opinion are fleeting. I mean, we're coming back now to issues that don't get me wrong, matter on affordability. But there is a moment right now where people want to build, and they want greater self-sufficiency and self-reliance in this country. Tell me about your thoughts on that. What we need to do, I guess, to make the most of the moment. Well, I mean, look, we've all growing up in school, and the manifest destiny was big in our minds, right? I'm not sure the average American, not even the average 99% Americans would even know what that is. So, it's definitely a moment that's far more visceral for us. I think we have to, and I think we're doing it, I think the elbows up was a natural reaction out of the gate. But I think it's like, okay, just like in a hockey game. That was fun, boys and girls, but head to the box and then come out and play normal hockey, right? So, sorry for anybody who thinks normal hockey is fighting all the time. But, you know, you've got to get the game. You eventually have to get the puck in the neck, and both sides have to do that. So, I think we're at a moment. Yeah, and we're at a moment like that. I, you know, dare I say, I make it in trouble for this. But there, I say, countries that don't take advantage of their natural resources throughout history tend to disappear. I don't want to see that. Nobody wants to see that. I'm probably far less worried about the United States than I am about the Russians and the Chinese who seem to be making everything they can to land grab and get resources and stuff like that, right? I mean, we can't be blind to that. So, I agree the feelings are changing. The Canadian public sentiment is changing. The Prime Minister's words are changing. The truth will be in, do the actions change and do we rise at a moment? Proofs in the podium. We have to. Yeah. This is an existential threat at our own creation, but better yet, we have the ability to solve it. Dawn Farrell, former CEO of Transalda, former CEO of TMX. Now in charge of the major project office. What are your thoughts on that? Great. I mean, someone from the energy sector I've spoken to her a couple of times already. I'll see her again next week in Calgary. Is it going to get it done? Yeah, she's going to push hard. She's not part of the bureaucracy. I think there's a number of great things. You know, you've got folks there around the Prime Minister that I think want to get things done. As you know, just because the Prime Minister and cabinet even caucus want to get things done, there's a whole bureaucracy that looks at timeframes different than perhaps you had an idea. And definitely different than business does, but that's not Dawn. And I think she's, what's the number one thing in government? You got the support of the Prime Minister. So I think she's got the support of the Prime Minister right now. She has a passion for getting stuff done. She understands the industry. And I think not only does she understand Western Canadian frustration, but she also understands Canada wide frustration. I think she just got that background. So excited to see where it goes and, you know, Tik Tok pitter better. Godspeed, Dawn. Got a question from the audience, just one here. Given the rapidly changing global trends and demands for energy, what in your opinion are the key federal policies needed to allow for Canada to catch up to this changing landscape? Yeah, well, the number one is just speed. I think the competitiveness issue, and I know there's a lot of discussion about emissions caps and carbon taxes and stuff. To me, those are really huge things that are not allowing our industry to succeed. And we're one of 10 of the largest producers that is taxing for lack of a better word and putting shackles on our resource industries, and particularly in oil, and nobody else is doing it. You have to wonder, how can that help you? Like it just like basic economics, right? If you increase the price, lower the supply, even though demand, and let's face it, demand for oil and gas, all energy is going up globally. There's 7 billion people that don't get the benefits that we have, and want to get those benefits, you know, making our product more expensive to other parts of the world. How does that help us move forward? So we have to figure out ways. How do we make our products less expensive to other parts of the world? So to me, the emissions cap and the carbon side, I mean, let's, you can wait, maybe some others will start to catch up out of that 10, but until they do, I don't know why we're punishing our industries, the speed around jurisdictional stuff. And we see this, you know, back to Indigenous, we see the BC government will throw them a bone, you know, they've handed off some of the environmental approvals to some of the nations when projects are on their property. So I think it's, it's things like that. And then the last one, which I know is contentious, purely this one associated to liquids business. If you want, and the government of Canada has to decide if they want to, if you want to build the pipeline to the west coast or have the private sector do it, you're going to have to get rid of the tanker band. Thoughts on carbon capture before let you go. Yeah, interesting. I think it's an important element in certain jurisdictions, like obviously you have to have it near where the carbon is emitted. We could build pipelines are hard enough to build any pipeline, but, you know, equally building carbon pipelines. So certain geologies work, certain places of work, direct air capture, but I still think it's, it's early days from an economic perspective. If you think both in the United States and Canada, and you would know this, significant financial benefits and incentives have to come from federal governments to make them economic. And they're not quite there yet, either in Canada or the United States. So I think you've seen these slow. And of course, governments are trying to balance the delta between what they can afford and other elements and what do they need to do carbon capture. Yeah, it's another one that I'm optimistic in the right locations, but it's not going to work in every jurisdiction. Well, I did there. Greg, I think this room was full partly because you have a reputation for speaking very plainly and patriotically about the most important. I would say most important, most vital part of our industry, of our country's economy, which is the energy industry. It is extraordinarily important that you speak in audiences and cities like this. I wanted to thank you on behalf of the audience for telling it like it is. Thanks, and I appreciate it. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] Thank you once again to Greg, Ebel, and Sheamus Ruregan for such an insightful and forward-looking discussion. You've challenged us to think critically about Canada's competitiveness and the crucial role that energy will play in shaping our future, our energy, and how do we leverage our resources for our future. Please join me again in a final round of applause for our keynote and our moderator. [APPLAUSE] As we conclude, I'd like to acknowledge our third lead sponsor, OEC. The alignment between OEC's work and the Empire Club's mission could not be more clear. Both of us are deeply committed to building stronger, more resilient communities and advancing conversations that matter to Canada's future. On behalf of OEC, please join me in welcoming Mayor Rob Burton to the podium. [APPLAUSE] [MUSIC PLAYING] It's my pleasure on behalf of Oakville Enterprises Corporation to share with you my appreciation for what we've had here today. The Empire Club of Canada has proven that it continues to be a major touch point for all of us as we navigate our uncertain future. This important conversation today helps us understand Canada's energy future if we seize the moment. Sheamus Oregan, thank you for your informed and informing part in today's fireside chat. Your years of service are very impressive and as a former journalist myself, it's a remarkable journey from journalism to the cabinet table I've got to imagine. I know many journalists who often imagine they could make the decisions better, I think you did. And I want to thank Greg Ebel for your inspiring insights today and I'm going to offer OK, maybe it was skeptical inspiration, but I didn't detect the skepticism while you were being inspirational. I believe that if I can get a copy of your speech, I would like to circulate it to all of my fellow mayors as a mayor for almost 20 years of Oakville. I know a lot of mayors and there are a lot of people who need to hear and read what you said today and I hope to make that happen. [APPLAUSE] I appreciate Enbridge's commitment to reconciliation and opportunity. I believe that that is the solution we've all been looking for. I love the way you've welcomed indigenous communities into the center of business and into the center of Canada's energy. I think that Enbridge's long term partnership with Oakville Enterprises is very important to our town and I hope it's valued by the Empire Club. I know that Oakville Enterprises' partnership with Enbridge has accelerated enterprise's growth and success for our town. Enterprise President and CEO Rob Lister has made enterprise a major engine of Oakville's famous fiscal strength. I just want to give a nod to Alberta. My inspiration for creating Oakville Enterprises was from Alberta. We were following the successful example of Edmonton and Calgary down the same path that we're rolling along. And so it was kind of a wonderful fit when Enbridge decided that it was worth joining us in that adventure. And I thank everybody for your time today. Enbridge, I thank you for your faith in us and your contributions to our success at the board table. And I look forward to many more years of success together. Thank you everybody. Thank you again to our panelists, sponsors, and of course to all of you for joining us here today and online. I'd also like to recognize the students and young leaders in the room here today from Queens University, TMU, and University of Toronto. Welcome. Thank you all for being a part of our community and for helping advance public dialogue on topics that matter. Now to stay connected, please subscribe to our newsletter by scanning the QR code on your tables. We also have an exciting new membership program that you can please see our staff at the registration desk for more information. I also hope that you'll join us for two exciting upcoming events. On October 24th, we'll welcome the Honourable David McGinty Minister of National Defense. He'll share how Canada's new defense industrial strategy can help us meet our NATO commitments, rebuild capacity here at home, and create jobs while strengthening our security. And on November 6th, we'll be joined by Ontario's Attorney General Doug Downey, who will reflect on six years of ambitious court modernization, what's been accomplished, and what comes next, as Ontario builds a justice system that truly delivers for people. Tickets for both events are on sale now. And as always, as a club of record, the Empire Club events are available to watch and listen to on our website and the recording of today's event will be available shortly. Thank you all for being part of this important conversation, enjoying the networking reception, and we look forward to seeing you at future events. This meeting is now adjourned.