Comeback Strategies for Justin Timberlake, Will Smith & Chappell Roan

Hello, hello everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Fluently Ford. And today we are fluently fixing three celebrities. This is an episode I'm really excited for because a couple of weeks ago, I was on a plane ride and I feel like you get the best ideas of what to do on a plane ride in the shower, driving a car really anywhere where you can't access your laptop and like write down what you're going through. Isn't that just how it works? But I had this incredible idea for how I think I could fix just in Timber Lake and take the word fixing, you know, lightly. Because obviously I am a controlling person and I do want to control all of these celebrities like I'm a puppet master, but they are real people and they're allowed to do what they want. But at any rate, I think that there's three people we can agree on that need a little bit of a reputational U-turn right now. And that's just in Timber Lake, Will Smith and Chapel Rhone. I really only had the idea for Justin Timber Lake, but then I asked you guys on Instagram, who else needs a reputational U-turn? With these three specific celebrities, I don't think it's that they're canceled per se. I think they're not irrelevant, but I think they could use a little boost and getting back to the limelight in a way that would be satisfactory to them. So that's what we're doing today. We are going full unsolicited publicist and giving advice to these three celebrities. And for what it's worth, every single piece of advice is blatantly different, especially what I have for Justin and Will. So without further ado, let's get into it because I just always find these types of episodes so fun. Today's episode is brought to you by Shopify. Starting something new is hard. It feels like such an uphill battle and there's so much work that goes into it, whether it's a podcast or a new business and what really helps is having a partner like Shopify on your side. 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We are going to start with my very first idea and that is how to fix Justin Timberlake. We all know that he's had a few bad years. I mean, he was on top back in the day, back in his squiggly, ramen hair days. But now there's been a couple of curse guffles he's been involved in. Number one was the Britney Spears memoir where we found out not great things about Justin Timberlake. We then saw if you've listened to my bot campaigns episode, how he basically put together a bot campaign on Twitter to defend himself about what was going on with Britney Spears's memoir. And it was so poorly done and obvious. It was just, you know, we all got the IK for a few different reasons. He then put out a new album. It flopped. He then got into UI and it did in fact ruin the world tour. And then even though he went on his world tour, there's just been a few different cringe clips coming out where he's singing a few words of his song. And then sometimes quite literally putting the mic down and having the audience sing the rest and then bodycam footage of his DUI or DWI arrest came out. And it just he did not look good. So we're all ect out by Justin Timberlake, but we used to not be just in Timberlake. Not only was he yes, like a band dating Britney Spears on top of the world, but he was also well liked for a variety of reasons. And one of the things that a girl always likes and a guy is a funny guy. We all like funniness. And there's a real lack of funniness and humor with both male celebrities, but also all celebrities and the world right now. My friend Chelsea and I were talking about this with the Justin Bieber Coachella performance weekend one and how he was smiling and cheesing to the camera. And we were kind of getting butterflies from it. And then we realized, is that just because he's smiling? Like, have we seen Justin Bieber smile for the past couple of years or even certain celebrities? Like Jacob, all right. You're Austin Butler. I feel like they're always so moody on the red carpet. When do we get to see the eye crinkles? When do we see the humor and the laugh and kind of that? I don't know like guy in college making jokes type of energy. And that right there is my path to Justin Timberlake redeeming himself. He needs to get off of the current trajectory that he's on of trying to be swag and trying to be cool and trying to reclaim his title as the Prince of Pop. And instead lean in to being funny because Justin Timberlake used to be really funny, right? Not only was he the guy putting out sexy back and he was smooth, but he was also working with the lonely island. He was also on SNL. He was also acting in the Friends with Benefits movie. And all of that together made for all of the ingredients that made him kind of like a, I don't know, you could say like an it boy of the moment. For people who don't remember this era, Justin Timberlake was really integral to SNL almost in the same way that Ariana Grande is on SNL. And she's so great in acting in all of the skits and the sketches. And she's a really good actress. But she's also got that ability to sing and really bring the SNL songs and performances to life in that way. And that is who Justin Timberlake was back in the day. He was doing the iconic Dick and a Box song, Mother Lover, three way, the Golden Rule, featuring Lady Gaga. I know all of them. But people really loved that era of him. He also did, I think, the history of rap with Jimmy Fallon. Like he was on SNL a lot and you thought of Justin Timberlake as yes, he can sing and he can dance, but he was also funny. And I think that humor is his second tier skill. And I have this theory that I've kind of come up with by myself where I think that for a lot of celebrities, when they focus on their second tier skill, it really endeers a lot of people to them. Because when a celebrity forgets about their first tier skill and they only focus on the second tier skill, it opens them up to a new audience and it makes us like appreciate them more and even more deeply. So you see this with Ariana Grande. When she's on SNL, people are like, wait a minute. She's a really good actress. And now here she is acting and we almost forget about her first tier skill of singing. Tom Hiddleston, when he goes on a late night talk show host and he whips out some of his dance moves, which by the way, if you haven't seen any of those videos, you should look it up. Every time he does that, it's like, oh my god, Tom Hiddleston is such a well-rounded stud. You almost forget that he's an actor because he's so good at dancing on the late night show that you're like, is this guy just a smooth dancer? Which by the way, I do think he would make a great James Bond. And I think this is part of the reason why dancing with the stars is so entrancing to us is that you see an athlete or, I don't know, they have like politicians on, I don't know, you see like an actor, an influencer or reality star, and they're doing the cha-cha perfectly and you go, oh my god, look at this person. They're so talented. I thought that all they do was their cooking show, but now they're doing a perfect somba. This person is just so amazing. There's something about talent that always makes us impressed. And I feel like this is why so many actresses and singers, like they go on, you know how Cara Delevingne, like every time she's going on a late night talk show host, she's like, I'm actually ambidextrous or I can play the drums or I can do the guitar behind my head. It, I don't know if it like perfectly works with her, but for a lot of people, when you see that somebody is like a well-rounded, renaissance person, it makes you like them more. Even think about like George W. Bush getting into pain. People are like, not only was he president, but he also paints another example of this is that girl, Maddie, Pruitt, right, who was on the bachelor red. And I think now she's like a Christian influencer. A video came out of her doing basketball and apparently she's really good at dribbling or doing something with basketball. And that's her number one most viewed tick-tock of all time. Forget about what she did on the bachelor red. Forget about her new Christian podcast that she has. People love the fact that she can whip out this skill of playing basketball and we didn't know she could do that. And for Justin Timberlake, his second tier skill that a lot of people have forgotten about himself included is humor. So here is my strategy for Justin Timberlake. Number one, quite literally go back to Andy Sandberg. I feel like Andy Sandberg, the public loves him. He's been doing Brooklyn 9.9. He's got a really great reputation and his chemistry with Justin Timberlake has always been electric. So the two of them getting back together and kind of scratching that nostalgic itch that a lot of us have and putting something out, you know, a song or co-hosting SNL together. I think it would really signal people to think of Justin Timberlake back in that way. Or if he wants to do something with the younger audience, he could do something with the lonely island of today's generation, which is the please don't destroy boys. Now they're not as like funny on SNL as the lonely island was, but if Justin Timberlake came back and he did a song or a feature. With please don't destroy and it was good. That's going to be important like it has to be good. Sometimes please don't destroy. They just like miss the mark. But if it was legitimately good, I think people would go, wait a minute. We like this. Now, I kind of like the idea of him working with the lonely island a bit more because I just think please don't destroy like it just doesn't hit sometimes. But I think the audience would love it and it's hard to stay mad at someone who's being self deprecating silly and goofy. And Justin Timberlake needs to do that. Now number two, he could host SNL. His monologue would have to be self deprecating and the sketches would have to be good, but it would remind people that Justin Timberlake is funny and he could eat. even poke fun at something in his monologue. Like he could say something and then maybe there would be a heckler in the audience and Justin could go, this is gonna ruin the monologue. You know, this is going to ruin something. He's making fun of himself, he's making fun of how embarrassing the DUI incident was. But most people who are self-deprecating, it's because there's an inner foundation of a lot of self-confidence. So that's why I think somebody like Conan O'Brien is able to be self-deprecating so well because you know that he doesn't actually hate himself. That's why it's so easy for him to be the punching bag and take all of the jokes. I also think if Justin worked something into that SNL monologue about how this is almost karma that he deserves, maybe there could be some well-written joke where like, yeah, he's had a bad few years but that's still only a fifth as bad as having the entire world see your nipple at the Super Bowl. Yes, it's been bad, but he has a lot more karma to receive so he knows that more is coming. And I'm like, he hasn't even done it all yet. Rather than this idea of, oh, it's been so hard, like won't everybody love me. I think he had some quote at his concert where he said something like, it's been a tough week. I know I'm hard to love. Shut up, Justin. Like, first of all, the whole thing about like, driving while you're intoxicated, that doesn't make it a tough week. It's a decision that you chose. Like you could have ubered your celebrity, you have the money, stop putting yourself in this victim-pity position, especially when you're quite literally at concert on stage in front of thousands of people who paid to see you. Now's not the time to be a victim, but if you get up on stage like at SNL and you do a monologue and you're like, hit me with it and hit me good because I deserve it, that actually endears more people to you. Number three, another idea for him is to do a full-length comedy podcast with somebody, maybe Conan O'Brien, somebody who has a good reputation, not to act shufford. And not any of the man-o-sphere podcasters, but somebody who has like a well-liked reputation, maybe he could even go on Amy Polar's podcast and just have a natural hour or two hour long conversation where you talk about everything. Maybe share a few stories that people don't know from the in-sync days. Maybe a few behind-the-scenes industry tidbits that people don't know. And once again, be very humble in all of this. One of the ideas for him going on Conan O'Brien's podcast is that I think Conan O'Brien could gently tease him about the DUI incident. And I think he would just have to kind of take it. But Conan would do it in a way that would feel affectionate and not like he was super jabbing him. And the audience would leave liking both of them. Or Justin could go on the Hot One's podcast because like once again, like we probably want to see Justin Timber, like suffer a little bit. I know that sounds so twisted and malicious, but I think people do want to see him cry while he's eating spicy wings. And that kind of is what the show is, which just like makes no sense to me. And once again, if he's going on Hot One's, he could have some sort of joke in there where he's like on the last wing and he could look at it and go, this is going to ruin my taste buds. Once again, a call back where he's making fun of himself. But he could only do the, this is going to ruin X type of sentence for the monologue at SNL or on Hot One's. He couldn't do both, like you only get to do that one time. My fourth idea for him is that he should go on dancing with the stars or a reality competition cooking show or something like that. I think dancing with the stars would be great because he is in fact a really good dancer so he would actually do that very well. But if he went on some type of reality competition show, that would put Justin Timberlake in the student position, not the master position. It would come across as very humbling. It would be very charming. We all like to see somebody kind of bow down. And once again, like as a society we're so much easier on men than we are for women. So if a guy does anything remotely humble, people are going to eat it up and everybody would love Justin again. And it would almost be this move of something that I'll talk about in the Chapel Rowan section is that I think that the internet absolutely loves to be contrarian. So if Justin Timberlake was like, oh man, I've fallen from grace. Let me go do dancing with the stars. The internet would then by proxy of their nature say, oh my God, I can't believe he's going on this. Justin is a superstar. He's amazing. He's way too big for dancing with the stars. And that is secretly what he kind of wants to hear. So basically by putting himself in like an underdog position, the internet will actually build him up. And I think that's kind of what he wants to hear right now. And then my fifth piece of advice is doing another acting role. This is another second tier skill that Justin Timberlake has. And I know nobody wants to talk about it, but he was really good in the social network, okay? Was that maybe because he was playing the total douche character of Sean Parker? Yes, but he was still really good. And I do have this idea that with all of the tech billionaires right now, Marcus Huckerberg, Jeff Bezos, Sam Altman, Peter Teal, you name it. I bet soon there's going to be some sort of media piece written about them. Because if we had something come out about the social network, and now AI is infiltrating everything, like there's going to have to be some media piece made about that. And if Justin Timberlake could get a role, any type of role in the next piece that's coming out about AI or Amazon or whatever the hell it is, people will be reminded of how good he was in the social network. And they'll be like, wait a minute, he's actually a really good actor. Maybe he should be doing this instead. It would just give him a lot of positive kudos. Now the two things that he should absolutely not do under any circumstances, do not do a documentary about yourself for damage control. Nobody wants it. Stop putting yourself in the victim position. Do not do a documentary. Number two, don't do an in sync re-union tour because there have been different rumors and reports over the past year that Justin Timberlake has been eyeing an in sync re-union tour because it's like a reset strategy for him and it would wipe the slate clean and give him some good brownie points. If he does that now, every single person is going to see it as desperate and a way that he just wants to get his reputation back and it's not going to work out well. And you really only have one chance to do a reunion tour and get everybody excited about it. Now is not the time, Justin. Today's episode is brought to you by Hero Bread and what a hero it is. You would never ever know from eating Hero Bread from the taste and the texture that it is zero to five grams of net carbs and 11 to 32 grams of fiber from the texture. That's why I'm obsessed with the bread. Every supermarket I go into, I feel like the Hero Bread is out of stock. That's why my parents keep stealing it when they come to my house. It's just because it tastes amazing. It's soft, it's fluffy like you know and love bread to be. But when you toast up that protein breakfast bagel, you're getting 19 grams of protein in it. So it's no compromises just the flavor, zero grams of sugar. And once again, 11 to 32 grams of fiber and you get all of your favorite recipes. You can have sliced bread, you can have tortillas, you can have bagels, you can have noodles, you name it, you eat it, it's Hero Bread. So Hero Bread is offering 10% off of your order. You can go to hero.co and use the code fluently at checkout. That's code fluently at h-e-r-o.co. Hero Bread. So that would be my advice for Justin. I could see a very clear path back for him, but I think he needs to kind of like humble himself, bow down to the public, go on some sort of show or live situation that would be quote unquote beneath him and get back into that funny guy role. Be like, I'm gonna make fun of myself, I'm gonna be goofy, I'm gonna be silly. You guys can make jokes about me. And it's not going to seem too harsh because Justin Timberlake is always going to be this guy who's on top, you know? He's like this white, straight guy who's been famous for so long, who is so rich, who can get arrested and still go on tour and make money. So stop putting yourself in this victimy position like everything that he's saying on stage, like it's been really hard and like blah, blah, blah, knock it off, just take the hit and then be strong enough in yourself to say, hey, you forgot my other cheek, hit my other cheek. And you know who said that? Jesus was the one who suggested that. It's going to come across as very confident if Justin just forgets about trying to be so swaggy on stage. He's giving youth pastor at this point and what he needs to do instead is just go back to basics. Think mad TV, think college humor. That is an error that Justin Timberlake did really well in. So that's what he should be focusing on if he wants to get his reputational you turn. Now the next piece of advice that I have is for Will Smith and my piece of advice for Will Smith is actually the direct opposite that I said for Justin Timberlake. And I've talked about this take for Will Smith before. I think on TikTok, but the video didn't do well so you probably didn't hear it and maybe that means it's not even a good take but I'm gonna tell it to you anyway. I think that Justin Timberlake and Will Smith actually have a lot of similar qualities. They can both sing, they can both dance, they're both funny, they were both in movies at a certain time and doing well in it. At one point they were on top, they were like that guy and now their reputation is just kind of in the toilet. But here's how my advice is opposite for Will Smith. So for Justin Timberlake, I'm basically saying forget trying to be swag, okay? Forget trying to be the Prince of Pop, be humble, be meek and for Will Smith, he's been too humble. He's been too meek for far too long and then there was the slap incident like everybody remembers the slap that was heard around the world but he can still come back from this. I think it's safe to say Will Smith has lost his mojo but you can get mojo back. I think that was like the whole plot of one of the Austin Powers movies is that like you can get your mojo back and Will Smith, I feel like everybody has forgotten who he was, himself included. Back in the day when I was growing up, Will Smith was such a charismatic ladies man. He was in Hitch, which was such a big movie and he was playing the ladies man and it was so natural on him. I always thought of Will Smith as like this cool swav bachelor who probably smelled good in person and you opened up his fridge and there was like a bunch of, you know, the vase water that comes in glass. Like that was just the vibe Will Smith gave me when I was growing up and watching what he was in and he's always good at playing cool. It doesn't look fake or put on on him. When he was in that movie focus with Margot Robbie, which by the way, they definitely hooked up, okay? The blind item said that Will Smith Marco Robbie hooked up when they were doing focus and you watch some of the press interviews and stuff like, there's chemistry. But anyway, he was in focus. He was super confident. He's singing big Willie styles all of a minute, getting jiggy with it. He just had that natural it factor and you have to wonder where it went. So we're going to do the opposite of the advice for Justin Timberlake for Will Smith. It's all about making him cool again. And number one, we're going to start with a style refresh. You're going to get him in some sort of like baggy, Gen Z styles of jeans. We're not so Gen Z that it looks like it's try hard. And on Will Smith, it won't because he was the fresh prince of Bel Air. So this is almost going to be a little bit of like an nostalgic call back to when he had those big baggy pants. And he was like the original cool guy. It's not going to look like it's trying hard on him. It's going to look like it's just who he's always been. And I think paired with this fashion re-style for Will Smith, he should get photographed or paparazzi doing something where he looks effortlessly cool. Like I know that this sounds so lame. It's like trying to make your ex jealous or something, but he should have a new wardrobe refresh and be paparazzi like making a bunch of people laugh or coming out of a restaurant with a whole entourage of people. Just something that looks like he's living life well because right now I feel like every photo you see of Will Smith or the headline, it gives like man going through it. And we need to change that dynamic. Number two, I would have him do an actors on actors interview and I know most people hate these, but this is important. The person he would be doing the interview with is Margot Robbie. The chemistry that they had when they were doing focus together, have you ever seen like if you haven't just pause right now and Google Will Smith, Margot Robbie, photos, the two of them together like I'm absolutely positive that they hooked up. But I want them to do this actors on actors interview because number one, people are kind of like forgetting about Will Smith. So it would bring him back to the forefront of people's minds. And number two, their chemistry would be undeniable, especially because we saw Margot Robbie trying to do it with Jacob Allority and like nobody liked that, nobody liked it. So instead have her do it with Will Smith and people love watching chemistry. The number of times that I've rewatched that clip of Nicole Kidman telling Jimmy Fallon that they almost dated back in the day and he's like, wait, what? And you can tell that he's nervous and there's the energy between them. It's one of the most viewed clips on YouTube because everybody loves that type of dynamic. So you see Will Smith and Margot Robbie talking and maybe somebody's blushing. It would go viral. Like trust me, it would. Now for what it's worth at the same time, this by the way is so morally dubious. Okay, this is like morally dubious advice. I would plant if I was his team a bunch of blind items about who Will Smith has hooked up with in the past few years because I feel like he just has this reputation that he is a cuck. Okay. And that like, and I don't agree with this verb you to, but this is what the internet thinks. They think that Jada has been having her entanglements with August and Will Smith has just been sitting in the cuck chair watching it happen doing nothing. But if they're in an open relationship, which I'm sure they have been, he's also been hucking up with people. If he hasn't just lie and say that he has in the blind items. Now, what's start putting out some items saying that like he had this entanglement with this person or a lot of people don't know that he was hucking up with XYZ and it would kind of get the internet talking and looking through and combing through who he might have been what and it would change his reputation. It's not ethical, but like whatever, I don't, I don't care. You know, this isn't even going to happen. But that's what I would do if I was his team. The next thing I would do is I would not have him put out an album. I think he kind of already tried to get back into music and his album dude, it was so bad. There was some stat where I think in the UK, it only sold 257 copies. It was like a number that was so low, you definitely don't know that he had a new album come out like it did not perform well. And I don't think the public really wants an album from Will Smith right now. What we need is to remember who he is and that he's even on our radar. So I would actually have him feature in somebody else's album on a song. And I know that this sounds crazy, but maybe a feature with Doja Cat. I know at first you're probably like, what the hell, it doesn't make any sense. But I feel like Doja Cat is funny, self-aware, and she kind of references pop culture media bits. I'm not sure if Doja is the best, but it would have to be someone and he would only be a feature. It wouldn't be an exact album himself, but it would remind people that Will Smith still exists. He's on our radar and that he can sing. And then lastly, if he does go back into acting, this is kind of similar to Justin Timberlake's advice. It would only be one role that he should audition for and that is something where he would either be in a rom-com or a heist film and he would be the cool guy, the ladies man. Nothing serious, nothing preachy, nothing that makes you learn a lesson. I would want him playing somebody who is swav, who's charming, who's like a little bit dangerous, who's either got a good pair of sunglasses on or like a distressed leather jacket. I would want you to meet his character for the first time as he's doing pull-ups or he like gets off of a motorcycle or maybe you meet him and he's in a bar, but he's chatting to a lady because of course he is because all of the ladies like him and want him. I know it sounds so superficial, but Will Smith carries that energy so well. And I think a lot of us are missing that energy. You look at Jacob Ballority and Paul Mezkel and Austin Butler and Timothy Chalene. I feel like they have kind of a blend of, I don't know if I would say feminine energy to them, but I could see all of those guys painting their nails or something. Will Smith back in the day was just giving charismatic ladies man of the 90s. And I would want to see him play that character but a little bit all grown up. So maybe the it man of that movie looks up to Will Smith's character as a mentor or he teaches him how to do something because he's so good at it. He's the only role I would want to see him in. And similar to the advice for Justin Timber like there's also something that Will Smith should not do. And number one, it's just anything serious. Don't do a red table talk. Don't like preach like you're giving a sermon. Don't do anything that's like too deep or too heavy or trying to apologize or teach people certain lessons. Don't talk about like trauma or regrets of the past. Do not bring up the slap again. You don't need to bring it up. Keep it cool. Keep it light. You're the man. You're always been the man. You're Will Smith. And I want to see him get his mojo back because I think honestly just when it comes to all celebrities we're kind of missing a little bit of that mojo. So let's give it to Will Smith. So that's my advice for him and it's completely different than Justin Timber like they need to like destiny swap. Today's episode is brought to you by Liquid IV. Pull up a chair with me and take a seat at the hydration station because I'm obsessed with Liquid IV. So are all of my friends for what it's worth my friends. Zoe, her favorite flavor is the popsicle firecracker one. I love the sugar free Mandarin orange. I also love all of the citrus flavors. I just am somebody who in my body needs to be hydrated and properly hydrated at all times. I feel like I think better. I become less irritable. I'm more sociable. I love having like a liquid IV in the afternoon to kind of clear your mind and set you up for a few more hours of work success. And I'll be the one to say it. I also feel like I have better bowel movements. Okay. When I'm hydrated and things are moving well. So here's what you need to know about Liquid IV. Just one stick and 16 ounces of water hydrates faster than water alone powered by Liquid IV Hydrocyance and optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential vitamins and clinically tested nutrients that turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration. So soak up some unforgettable memories with on-the-go hydration from Liquid IV, tear, pour, live more. Go to liquidiv.com and get 20% off your first purchase with code fluently at checkout. That's 20% off of your first purchase with code fluently at liquidiv.com. Okay. Now lastly, you guys wanted to hear my advice for Chapel Rhone and I'm definitely nervous to do this because I just feel like her fans are so die hard. And my advice for Chapel Rhone is going to be different for the first two because it's not really a playbook of things that she should do, like outfit changes or shows that she should go on or new aesthetic rebrands. And I think that's because I do want this advice to be tailored to what I think certain celebrities want. Like I think Justin wants his reputation to be better. I think Will Smith wants to rehab his image. Chapel Rhone, I can't really tell what she wants and I don't know if she wants a reputational U turn, but I think we all can agree that she kind of needs one. Her reputation right now is in such tattered pieces and I don't think that it deserves to be there. Everything that happened with her in Brazil and I'm not going to explain the whole story. Like you probably know what I'm talking about here, but everything that happened with her and that footballer kids at the hotel breakfast and everybody canceling Chapel Rhone and then it turned out that the whole situation wasn't even her fault, but the damage already happened by the time the truth came out. She was so messed up and I think everybody believed the story because everybody wants to believe something bad about Chapel Rhone right now. That's just the place that she is in. Like her reputation is murky and people in the general public just kind of have a dislike and a distrust of her. And I think that's why all these stories are spreading. So at any rate, I think she needs a bit of a reputational U turn, but I have advice for her that is catered to what I think she would do because I don't think she would do everything. But the very first piece of advice I would give to somebody like Chapel Rhone would probably be doing architectural digest house tour, like let people into your space and humanize yourself a little bit, like let them see how well rounded you are as a human. Where's the bedroom that you sleep in, that blanket that's crocheted by your grandmother and you use it and you really like it or this is where you hang out with your friends and you eat boxed mac and sheet. And then it's all of these details that make people go, "Oh my God, she eats mac and she's out of a box so do I." And wait a minute, maybe it makes sense that she's so moody and difficult because she's such an artist because I would never think to pair those curtains with that rug and she's really got that artistic flavor. Or, you know, this is where she makes her music and she has bits of her lyrics that she hangs up on her fridge. How cool that the entire house is her canvas for her art. I think that would do really well, but I also think chapel is like, "I do fucking not want people in my home. Do not cross my home. I don't want you to see in. So I'm gonna switch up my advice to be something that I think she would be down for because I think from what she says about, you know, wanting her privacy and her boundaries. I think she would be like, "I'm the last person to do an AD house tour." So the first thing that I would have done if I was chapel and this whole footballers kid at the hotel breakfast situation broke out is I would admit kind of defeat. Not defeat, but I would admit naivety and begin our ship. So when everything happened with that situation and the kid at the hotel breakfast, when chapel addressed what happened on her Instagram story about the instance or what turned out to be the lack of instance, it wasn't super endearing and I feel like typically when chapel does set up the camera and she speaks to it face to face, you never really come away being like, "Hell yeah, we're on the same team. I'm gonna support." There's something about her words, which I'll talk about later, that does feel a little oppositional. So if I was chapel, I would do something that not a lot of celebrities ever do and I would have broken the fourth wall. So I would have had her go on her Instagram stories and have the first video say something where she was basically saying, "I heard about what happened and I just have to say that wasn't me. I'm so sorry that that happened to that girl and her mother. I promise it was not at my request. I don't even remember anyone being near me towards breakfast. It certainly wasn't me, but I'm so sorry that happened to you." And then the next Instagram story after that, I would have had a separate video where she would say something like, "I'm recognizing now that I'm starting to get a bit of a reputation for things like this happening." And I'm really embarrassed about it. Obviously this lifestyle is new to me. It comes with a lot of changes on a lot of levels that I wasn't prepared for. And I feel like I'm kind of in over my head with a lot of this. So I appreciate having the chance to clear things up. And I want you to know that I'm aware of this lens. And I'm really gonna work hard to try to make things better. Now, is it her fault that everybody's coming after her? No. Does she deserve everybody hating her and wanting to smear her reputation? No. So does she have to do this? And is it like the right thing to do? No. I'm not saying that at all. But it's gonna be effective. And I feel like with people like Chappell or sometimes I see this with the younger generation or people on the left, they're so into like, well this is right and this is how it should be. And it's like, yeah, that's true. But like it's not gonna get you anywhere. Don't you want to be effective at this point? You know, you're going up against so many structures. One person can't dismantle it all. You're gonna have to make certain concessions and kind of wiggle your way through. And I think if Chappell broke that fourth wall and she said something like, I'm in over my head with a lot of this stuff. And I'm sorry how it's going wrong. I'm not saying that she should be sorry. But if she said something like that, okay, just like stay with me here. It would get people on her side on her team. And I think Chappell, Ron has been in such a, if you're into tarot, like I think of seven of Wands energy with like Doja Cat and her fans or Chappell Ron and her fans. And I think that this happens when anyone gets really stressed or burned out or overwhelmed your nervous system just goes into such a drive where you're like, we need things to be on pause. We need to cancel things. We need to push things back. I need a second to breathe. Like I need everything to be away from me and everyone to be removed. So that way I can like take a deep breath and survive. And we've all felt this feeling before like when you're overstimulated or burned out, it's awful. I've been so overstimulated at some point that I think somebody says to me like, Oh, can you take the trash out? And I just burst into tears because you feel like you're under water. And the only way that you can survive is by trying to get that breath and trying to get extra time and privacy, etc. So I think because Chappell Ron's nervous system is in this type of place, she's forgotten that there are a lot of benefits and powers and privilege this that come in her position and she's not taking advantage of any of them. Chappell Ron has fans and she doesn't want her fans to be parasocial with her. But unfortunate news flash, if you have fans, they're going to be parasocial. And you're going to have fans if you make music. And you could spend every second of every hour of every day working as hard as you can to make sure that no one's parasocial with you. And I'm so sorry. Like I wish this wasn't the case. They're just going to be parasocial with you. It is one of those facts of life that you just have to accept. And it's not fair. It's not right. Like I'm done. I'm done doing caveats for this episode. Okay. You either like get what I'm saying or you don't. But they're just going to be parasocial with you. They are and you can't stop that. So you might as well use it to your benefit. Taylor Swift does this all the time. She has the Swifties ride for her no matter what happens. And I feel like because Chappell so insistent at keeping her fans at an arm's length. She doesn't get to reap the benefits that come with this. So I think if Chappell ever broke the fourth wall and she put her defenses down and she went, I kind of need some help. I'm in over my head here and I feel like these stories take on a life of their own and I must have done something to contribute to that. Her fans will hear that and they will be like, we heard your call. They will ride for her. They will crush and stop these stories before they get big. She just needs to activate them. They're ready to be activated. They want to ride for her. And once again, just like I said with Justin Timberlake, the crux of the internet is that the internet is such a contrarian place, which is why it's so fucking annoying sometimes. But I've used this to my advantage to make certain TikTok videos go viral because people online are so ready to give their opposite opinion. Like they're always in battle mode all the time. So if Chappell actually goes out there to the internet and she goes, it's probably my fault why all these stories are happening just by contrarian nature of the internet. People are going to go, no, it isn't. You did nothing wrong. Chappell, you have it. Like you're the victim in this blah, blah, blah. So if you present an opposite narrative, just watch as the internet actually builds you up in the way that you want. So once again, is it right now, but it's effective. And I feel like that's kind of what PR is like it's morally dubious things that get you an effective outcome. So the other thing that I would have Chappell do. I'm so sorry. I'm just like ready for my ask to be ripped apart, whatever. Okay. But the other thing I would have Chappell do is take speech and public speaking lessons. And I feel like I'm qualified to say this because my job for the past four years has been speaking and communicating. And when Chappell speaks, there's two things that happen that I notice with her. And I did a lot of research for this. Okay. I watched her on different podcasts. I watch her acceptance speeches and awards. Number one is that she says the word like so many times. Everybody has their filler word. I'm not going to tell you what mine is because then you'll notice it all the time. But everybody has a filler word that they rely on. And Chappell is always like like like like like like like like like if you listen to her for even five minutes when she was on the last culture. So spot cast you'll notice that she says like all the time. You guys made me feel so special. Like you were the start of the getting the career community on board. Oh, no, no, serious. Like you got it. Like you were the first people in media to get it. Because you were like, it can't be theirs. Lower. And I was like finally someone understands that it's a joke. Everything I'm doing is like in homage to like the queer elders. Like it felt so nice to be understood. I was like, it's working. And there's something about a lot of filler words that really aggravate people as I've noticed over the years. And number one is it makes the person who's speaking seem like they lack credibility like they're unsure of themselves. And that they're young and dumb. That's what continuously using filler words are relying on them does. And we know that Chappell is such a great artist. She's so skilled and confident and incredible with her lyrics. Whether she's either accepting an award or speaking on a podcast or even speaking face to face to the camera, whether she's talking about who she is or isn't endorsing or how she wants people to treat her and public or what happened at that hotel breakfast. These filler words and pauses convey this type of language where she comes across as very unsure, even though she isn't and even though she's saying things with a lot of like force or like feeling or emotion behind it, just the amount of filler words and pauses that makes it seem like she's unsure of what she's saying, which of course gives everybody the Internet choose get a chance to go, oh my God, she's unsure. Let's attack, you know, she's weak. And when you use filler words, it's not a personality defect. It's just a habit that you fall into. So if she was able to work with a public speaking coach, they would kind of train this habit out of her. And I think this would do a lot of subconscious background work in the positive way for her. The second thing that I notice when Chappell Roan speaks is that she skews very negative her language and her lens on things. And this happens with people in my life who do this. And I love them, but they just have a negative bias that they see the world through. And I think for her, this isn't a bad thing like I don't want her to change her lens or how she sees the world because this obviously adds lots of to her artistry and through this negative bias or tilt that she sees the world through, she can create all of these amazing songs and lyrics that move us so much. So I do think this is a good skill and I'm not saying that I want her to change her personality. I think it's overall probably an advantage for her, but with her speaking sound bites, I think it does a disservice. So one example is that when Chapel Rowan was on call her daddy, and you might not remember this, but she kind of got in hot water because she had this quote about her friends who are on different paths than her and have kids right now. She said quote, "all of my friends who have kids are in hell. I don't know anyone. I actually don't know anyone who's like happy and has children at this age. I have like like a one year old, like three year old, four and under, five and under. I don't I literally have not met anyone who's happy, anyone who has like light in their eyes, anyone who has he was slept. And it got a lot of you know, flak online because she was basically saying all of my friends like people that I know in real life all have kids and they're all miserable from it. And I mean, come on, like that stirred things up on the internet. But I remember making a tick talk about this because back when that was going on, I remember listening to that clip and section of the podcast and thinking that it was such a missed opportunity because when I think of what parents go through and what Chapel Rowan also goes through, I actually think that there's so much common ground and Chapel was speaking about it. Like they're completely on different teams. They live in different worlds. They have nothing in common. They live such different lives. And I was like, I actually think Chapel Rowan could relate a lot to her friends who are parents because when you're, this is example number one, when you're a parent, you're no longer an individual like you are, you're yourself, but you're also someone else's mom or dad. So you now have two identities. And when you become a famous celebrity like Chapel, you're no longer an individual like you are yourself, but you're also with the public thinks of you. Chapel is now both Kaylee and Chapel Rowan two different people at the same time. And that's kind of similar to being a parent. You're like, I'm me, but I'm also theirs. And that follows up into my next point. When you're a parent, you live life for yourself, but you also live life in service and in dedication to your children. And when you're a celebrity, you live life for yourself, but you're also in service and in dedication to your fans and the people who support you and putting out stuff for them with parents. Another similarity is that you're dealing with an audience quote and quote that is just irrational. If you're a parent and your toddler is throwing food off of the high chair, you could say to your toddler, please don't throw food off the high chair. Keep it on the plate. Do not throw food. And they might just throw some goo in your face right then and there. Like you cannot use logic or reason with them because they're a freaking toddler. And it's just like you can't get through to them, you know, they barely can even speak to you. When you are a celebrity, you could say to your fans, hey, please stop using my real name in person. Please don't come up and ask me for a photo. And just like a toddler, they might be like, oh my god, awesome. After you finish telling me this, will you sign an autograph? Like they just don't get it. You're dealing with people who are illogical. And I think parents, especially when kids are young, are often very stressed and overworked because it's a lot to go through. And when you're a celebrity, you're often stressed and you're overworked because it's a lot to go through. So when I look at what chapel goes through and what parents go through, sure, it's not like on paper. It doesn't seem like it's the exact same experience. But I think there's a lot of similarities and a lot of common ground. So I think that if Chapel had a little bit of a different lens on certain things, she could have actually expressed the same point. Like I'm not telling her to change her opinion and be like, "Chapel, you need to change what you think and you need to think that all parents are happy." But rather, just a little tilt. So she's still expressing the same things. But Chapel, on call her daddy, could have said something like, yes, a lot of my friends are on different paths than me. Most of them are parents. But even though we're technically in different areas than of life, I actually see so much commonality. They're busy. They answer to their kids. Random things pop up. They never would have expected. And that happens a lot to me. I'm busy. I answer to my fans and other people who need things from me. I have obstacles pop up on my path. So yes, we're both on different paths. But we both go through highs and lows on our individual path. And that is something that we both have in common. Like I think if you pause, you can find common ground in almost any topic. And I think Chapel just kind of has a negative bias of being like whatever I'm going through is so different from what anyone else is going through. And I don't think that you need to change what you're going through. But I think if you just give the perspective a chance, you can see that there's a lot of common ground with people. Today's episode is brought to you by BetterHelp, Online Therapy. There's a lot of reasons why people turned to therapy with different stressors in their life. And I think financial stress is affecting a lot of us right now. And it can affect you more than you know. We know that obviously it stresses us out when we look at our bank accounts. But financial stress can also take a serious toll on your mental health relationships. It's just something that you carry with you. 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So another kind of point off of it, this is that I think Chapel has this inherent negative bias and it comes across in her language. It's almost similar to when someone says to you, "You're not wrong." And I think to myself, "Couldn't you just say that I was right? Why do you have to say that I'm not wrong?" It's just a type of language that people use. I think it's called oppositional language and some people really connect with it. I personally hate it. I have so much trouble with it. I just want someone to be on my team. If you're in my life, be on my team. And there's been so many people throughout my life who just use this oppositional language. And it's just a habit people get into. And sometimes they think that it's connective, even though it's really not. But when you have a negative bias, it comes through in your language. And I think just shifting your language can set you up for success even if you want the same thing to happen. Because once again, I don't want to change Chapel's personality or what she wants. These are just linguistic little tweaks. So for example, if you want your partner to take out the trash, what two paths work better? Number one, saying, "Baby, you never take out the trash." Okay, now they're not really going to want to do it, right? But if you see them even deposit something in the trash can, sometimes I like to lie in good faith. And if I see my partner put something in the trash can across the room, you could say, "Oh my God, babe, thank you so much for taking out the trash." Like you always stay on top of it. I'm so bad at doing the chores. Like I really, I know it's small, but like I really appreciate how you always do that. Now you better believe, even though they didn't plan on taking out the trash at that moment, they're going to tie it up. And they're probably going to take out the recycling too. Because you're using language to set them up in good faith belief that they'll do something rather than bad faith belief that they're never going to do it. And they never have. And this comes across in different speeches that Chappell does. Like there was this one speech. I think it was like 2025 or 2024 and she won an award and she was advocating for how labels need to treat their musical artists a lot better. And she ended the speech with saying, "Label's, we got you, but do you got us?" And I get the message. Of course, we all get the message. But imagine if she said this instead, labels, we got you. And I see you starting the movement to take care of us as well. And I appreciate it with every label that I see taking part. Now imagine what would happen if she said that and made it a good faith intention messaging. I bet there would be TikTok accounts and Twitter accounts that would start putting together charts of, "Okay, Chappell said that certain labels are taking care of their artists. Let's put together a ranking. What label is the best of their artists? And what's the worst?" Other labels would look at that message that she said and they would say, "Wait a minute, there's now a P.R. gap in the marketplace. We could brand ourselves as the best label for artists to come to because we give everybody health, dental, and vision insurance. So we're going to make the move to be the first label that does that. So then that way we come across as the number one. Suddenly a movement starts and now these labels are going to compete with each other to see who can be the best to their artists. Rather than Chappell's negative bad faith, you know, just the linguistics of the word, being like, "We have you, but none of you have us." And then that puts everybody in a position to stay the same because it's like, "Okay, well, we all suck. So I guess we're all going to continue to suck." Rather than her saying, "I see a few of you doing good stuff and I notice it with all the great stuff that you're doing." Now it's like, "Oh, I want to be a good boy. Let me get moving on this." Why am I feeling the urge to say another caveat? I'm just going to say it one more time. Is this right? Should she have to do this? No. But it would be effective. Don't we want things to be effective? And it's just, I see this style of language and a lot of what she says. There was another speech in 2024. She said and she ended it by saying, "And don't ever let anyone tell you that you can't be exactly who you want to be, bitch." And of course, that's a great message. But you see how there's a lot of double negatives in there. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't be exactly who you want. It's just a natural negative form of language. If she instead changed that and said, "You can always be who you want to be. Be proud to be yourself and let your freak flag fly and fly it high." It's the same message of be yourself and be proud about it. But it's removing that victim onus because before she's saying that same message, but she's saying, "Don't ever let anyone tell you that you can't be exactly who you want to be." She's assuming that everybody's in the victim position. It's almost like she's spreading the message of anti-victimness rather than being strong and proud. Does that make sense? I think she stands for being strong and proud, but it's just a negative form that comes across and it leaves you kind of like, "Huh, rather than, "Ooh, does that make sense?" That would just be a tiny linguistic twist that I would do for future speeches or interviews that she has where she can plan out, which she's about to say ahead of time. I would work on sentences that have double negatives in them and just have them cancel each other out. That way, the tone of the message reads as overall more positive because I do think that's what she's going for. The last thing I want to talk about with chapel is something that I spoke about over on Patreon. I was thinking of Chapel Rhone compared to Anya. That's right, the beautiful Irish singer. "Sail away, sail away!" I love Anya when my family, we lived in Ireland when I was younger for two years and we actually lived down the road from Anya. And I think it was the same city that Bono lived in as well. And Anya has always lived in this castle in Ireland. Very secluded and you can see the ocean from there. And everybody knows for years that Anya, which by the way, if you want to know more about her, there's actually interesting rumors. We did an episode all about Patreon about how she might have been in a thruple with the people she worked on music with. Anyway, it's just like rumors, but leave it to me to find something about Anya where I'm like, she was in a thruple. But anyway, everybody has known for years that Anya is super reclusive. If I had to type her Myers-Briggs-wise, it's giving INFJ. Okay, like she likes her solitude. She's in a castle with her cats. She's never been married. She, I don't even really think she's had like a public long-term partner. And she's been that way ever since she was a kid. But you read these pieces about her that she does ever so rarely. And you know what she likes. She likes artistry. She likes being by the ocean. She likes having the windows open at night and hearing the sounds of the ocean. She likes working with just one person on her music for years at a time. And sometimes she only likes to see one or two people for an entire week. Like she really likes to keep to herself. And I know all of these things about Anya and I know what she likes. And I'm not sure if I know what Chapel Rowne likes. But I do know what she requires and what she needs. And I also know what Chapel doesn't like. But what does Chapel like and what does Chapel want? And I ask this question because without judgment, by the way, because I've gone through this anytime I am burned out or overstimulated or just in this place of life where you're like, I'm not so depressed that I should go on SSRIs. But I'm also not feeling joy a lot. Like I'm just feeling kind of nothingness. Anytime I'm in those moments and they're never good, you just you don't know what you want. I remember listening to The Beatles and they had the song, I want to hold your hand and I burst into tears hearing it because I was like, I don't know what I want. Do I want to hold someone's hand? Like what do I want? I don't know what I want. But I just know what I should should be doing and what I haven't done and what I need to get done and I miss having the space to want something. And that's why I think a lot of what's going on with Chapel could be, you know, just like nervous system disruption. Like I think she wants fame but she also doesn't want part of it. But with Anya, even though she's private and she has her boundaries, we know what Anya wants. Like I could plan a vacation for Anya or a perfect day for her and I know what she would want in it. I don't know if I know that for Chapel. I think a lot of us right now are like, well, she wants to be alone but she also wants to be on a stage. But she does but she doesn't like. And I think once you know your wants and once you know your desires, there's a lot of advice out there on TikTok which is like, there's monitoring spirits and don't tell your goals to anyone because they could cast the evil eye on you and try to take it and it's like, what are we doing? We got to have good faith in people. If you tell people your wants or your desires, I think you'll be surprised in how many people try to help you accomplish the things that you want. It's almost like this manifesting language of speak it and then it will appear. And I think Chapel has such a perception of her fans that all they do is cause misery and they suffocate her and they only just want to take, take, take pieces from her. But you know, of course that's true. There's crazy people out there. The majority of her fans want to see her have success and love and be happy and get the things that she wants. They want to support her. And I think by pushing everybody away, you're pushing the creeps away but you're also not letting that love and support in. And I'm only saying this because I think I'm a big fan of AB testing things and throwing stuff at the wall to see if it sticks. And I think Chapel's been pushing everyone away for a few years. And if that was the solution, I think it would have worked by now. So I'm not saying you need to do the opposite and pull a tailor's swift and have your fans come into your home or anything. But I think this would just be a mindset shift of trusting that people want good things for you. And once you change that mindset and perspective on the inside, it comes through externally in a language change. So when you even think about what Chapel said to her fans and how they should interact with her in public, it was a lot of negatives, right? Don't come up to me in public. Don't ask for a photo. Don't use my real name. And I just think, what if you, what if you just called tailor up? I'm like, what if you just had good faith in your fans and audience help me help you? What if instead of assuming that they just want a piece of you, you assumed that they want to be guided. So instead of saying, don't come up. Don't use my name. Don't take a photo. You instead changed the language of it. And you said, if you see me in public, actively, please give me a little wave from a distance. I love that. Please, if you're going to say something to me in public, use Chapel instead of Kaylee. I love hearing Chapel. If you see me in public, pretend we're playing a little game and we don't recognize each other. That makes me feel so good going out in public with this level of public recognition is a lot for me. But doing it this way makes it feel so fantastic. And I appreciate you guys taking the care to do this. Now people have a script and they know what to do rather than what not to do. Because if you tell people just what not to do, it leaves them scrambling. It makes them go, okay, so don't use her real name. And don't ask for a photo. But then what do I do? Do I close my eyes and sit down on the ground? Like people don't know what to do. Because a lot of people are kind of sheep. So tell them what you would like them to do rather than what you would hate for them to do. And similar to Anya, I would love for Chapel to speak on why she likes this privacy so much and how it gives good things to her. So I think with Anya, I think of her as such like a creative, mystical woman and the sounds of the ocean get to her and she wanders through the castle halls at night. And because she's alone, creativity can strike at any instance and she can get out of bed and do a song. You have all of these ideas because she talks about what it means to her. And I'd like to hear some of that from Chapel. Do you like this privacy so much because it allows your brain to run free? Or do you not like to be spoken to in public? Because when you're in public, you actually get a lot of energy from people. And sometimes you craft a lot of your songs in public and you don't want that process to be disrupted. Do you love privacy and it's always been that way since you were a kid, you love spending weekends alone? Or is it something that you recently came into as an adult? And now one of your favorite things is when you have a day to yourself and you can just paint and sing and crochet and let the day take you wherever it does. So once again telling the people what you like and what you love and what you want rather than what you hate, what you need and what you require. And I do think this is kind of just general advice for anyone who isn't burnout mode. You know talking about what you need, what you need, try switching it into what you want, what you want and just see what happens. Now for what it's worth, I did want to look up stuff that Chapel has said that she likes because I'm like, I know it exists out there. It just doesn't go as viral as everything else. So I went a little bit deep diving for things that Chapel does love. And there was this interview that she did in 2025. It was with Perfect Magazine and it was done by a six year old superfan, which is very cute and interesting. And in that interview she talked about some stuff that she loves. She said she loves arts and crafts, specifically a mosaic that she made for her own bathroom. She loves air heads, extremes, sour, the rainbow one specifically. In her off time she goes to parks, she goes thrifting, she goes to beer gardens and museums. She still has sleepovers with her friends and she has a baby, your stuffed animal from Disney World 2004 that she's kept since childhood. Now are those details that if you give it away you might build a pair of social relationship with your fans? Sure. Okay, that happens. Like I remember when I was a kid I read in like Tiger Beat magazine that Nick Jonas's favorite fruit was a plum. And every time I bite into a plum I'm like, I bet Nick Jonas wishes he was me right now biting into this plum. But you know, these details just kind of stick with you and they endear you to someone. And reading all of that about chapel, it enders me to her. You like to know the details it gives you like a warm feeling about someone and also for what it's worth. I think it's so funny that her stuffed animal she's had for over 20 years is EOR because I think EOR also walks around with this negative bias of like, oh man, you know, so I'm like, well she picked the right stuffed animal like she kind of is a little bit of an EOR. And these are all very beautiful interesting details that really warms me up to chapel and not a lot of people know about it because I think she's so used to being in a defensive mode and leading with what she needs people not to do rather than leading with who she actually is because she doesn't want people to know who she is. And I think it's causing a lot of distress. And I also think too knowing all of these details, not all of them, like she doesn't need to bear her soul. But a few details like this will make your fans sticking up for you easier because imagine if all of these details is what she led with and people knew what chapel loves and how she appreciates her privacy and what she does with arts and crafts. Then when the story comes out about her sicking her bodyguard on some young girl over hotel breakfast, people would look at that story and they would go, I don't know, it doesn't really line up to me. Chapel's the type of girl who's had the same stuffed animal for 20 years. Do you really think she would send her bodyguard after some kid in a hotel? Something about this is fishy. Doesn't seem like the chapel I know. Is that parasocial? Yes, like none of us know chapel, but it's parasocial in the right direction. It gets people to stand up for her. And for what it's worth, I do think things could be moving in this direction when I was looking up more stuff about chapel. There was a 2026 newsletter. She like wrote something at the end of it. It was some fan newsletter and she wrote a little section at the end. And in it, she said, I anticipate 2026 will be the year of taking care of myself and others and really engaging in a community that feels real and not online. So that's pretty good. Once again, I would change the negative language instead of saying, engaging in a community that feels real and not online. I would have her say engaging in a community that feels real and it's in person. Once you notice it with chapel, like there's just a lot of double negatives and everything that she says when it could be said positively instead. But she ended it by thanking her fans for quote, listening to my music, showing up to my shows, wearing my merch, watching my music videos, I feel very loved. And that's great stuff. And it's a shame that it got buried in a newsletter and it wasn't super public-facing. So anyway, all of this to say, unlike Justin Timberlake and Will Smith where I'm like, here's your guide and what you should do. I don't really have a guide for chapel because I don't want her to change her personality or her aesthetic or what she wants for herself or what she likes doing. I think there's just a few linguistic changes that would really help how she's perceived overall. And I think that's just something that could be done with a public speaking coach. So that would be my advice overall. And I think it would be a good first step forward. And it would still be something that she would be okay with doing because I think unlike Justin Timberlake or Will Smith where I'm like, go on this show and do this and blah, blah, blah. I don't know if chapel wants to be out there more. I think she maybe doesn't, but maybe she does. Who knows? So if you did not like this take, you can give this podcast a review. We are called armchair expert with Dak Shepard if you want to give it a one star. But let me know what you think about all of this. And I'm also very curious to hear your thoughts on the advice for Will Smith and Justin Timberlake because I feel like if they almost just swapped what the other person is trying to do. If Justin took Will Smith's current meekness and humbleness, it would work really well on him. And then if Will Smith was able to leach off a little bit of Justin Timberlake's swaggy, I'm the best look at me on stage, I think it would work well for him. So just a little bit of body swapping. As always, let me know what you think of this episode. And if you want any more patreon.com/formalleforward is where we do more episodes every single Friday. Thank you guys so much for listening. And I will see you soon for another episode of for. Bye guys.