Comcast Splits, OpenAI Weighs IPO Delay, and Buttigieg Targeted

Can I just tell you? I love the word vulgar. I love the word vulgarities. You have vulgar, sir. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine in the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher. And I'm Scott Calloway. Scott, they just did a profile, the AP, do you want to hear it? And who did they call? You and Gavin Newsom, two men, white men, I annoy all the time. And also, Tom, tell us all white guys. Well, it's funny when people meet us, they mistake us from one another, me and Gavin Newsom. Yeah, except for the hair part. Except for the handsome tall part. Handsome. Dreamy. Dreamy. None of that. Let me read the description of our relationship. I did not, I did not put them up to this. She and Galaway have developed a strong, if unlikely, chemistry in which his penchantful vulgarities can make her seem almost high-brow. It reminds me of Coco Chanel has a great quote. She says, the opposite of lecture is not poverty. It's vulgarity. And so you're Coco Chanel. I am Coco Chanel. No, I'm not. I'm not a Nazi. Can I just tell you? You know what I find? You know what's most shocking? You know what's most shocking about the vulgarity is that I think women like it more than the men. I get more positive feedback on the dick jokes from the women in the men. I get a lot of, and I like him. And then I like that. That happens a lot. That by the way, that piece for the AP. That was, I mean, I don't want to call it a puff piece because AP doesn't only do puff, but it was pretty complimentary. It was. I'm a power broker. Oh, that's right. They made it sound like you're the new king maker. You're going to decide, by the way, who's going to be the next president? Cause according to AP, you get to decide the nano bubbler. Yeah, there you go. Memorial. Does it can fix the algae? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Who shall I select among the many fine people of the country? Yeah. I would pick Mark Cuban. Honestly, I would. Really? Yeah. I would. I would like that because I'd get to go to the Lincoln bedroom, largely. I don't think there's lots of people should be president. Oh, you're right. Maybe he wouldn't be good. Who would we pick? Because select. Well, I mean, a magic wand. Anybody? Yeah. Yeah. I don't think you can get through the democratic primary. But in terms of pure intellect, served as country, I would pick Mayor Pete, I'm doing an event with him soon. Oh, we're going to talk about him lately. I love. I know. I know. I just, I love high IQ people. I think at some point, smart, smart and intelligence has to make a comeback in the oval office. He would be, he would be a good. There's a lot of good. There's a lot of people I'd like to be president. I'd love Governor Newsom, Governor Shapiro, Governor Pritzker. Is there any Republican UI? I think Ambassador Haley is quite talented. She would stop sucking up. Well, there's no way to survive. Come on. I know there's no way to survive that orbit. Any Republicans. I think there's a move for someone who does resist. I agree. Interestingly, oddly enough, someone who's going to be, I thought when he finally got his ball, Tom Tellus was really smart and like very good business person, really sharp. He was actually very supportive of gay rights, oddly enough. I agree. If I had, you know, picked that person, someone I didn't disagree with a lot, but my Gallagher, I was always impressed with. Although we totally disagreed. He had some really gross gay issue with stuff. But, but like smart people, smart people, smart people, smart is what we're talking about smart, right? Yeah. I mean, I mean, have you ever wanted Romney to be president more? Yeah. I don't know. I think there's a lot of, I think there's some talented Republicans. They've been benched and kind of shoved off to the side. And also just on an objective level. And I realize I'm not objective, but there's some objectivity here. I think the Democrats have an else. Osof is giving great Camelot energy right now. Yeah. I think Mark Kelly doesn't have kind of the risk of a president, but he'd be an outstanding president. Vice President too. Interesting. There's a ton of secretary of defense. That's what they should do for him. If they don't. He'll be in the cabinet. As long as it gets to a point in the next center. Anyway, anyway, I don't know. I vote for the vulgar Scott Gallagher. There you go. A chicken in every pot of Cialis and every cupboard. Oh my God. You thought Rump was going to get ready for us. I had a Patrick, my male escort in the Lincoln bedroom, just for. Hello, I'd open it to Spencer. You want to see a UFC fight? I'm opening it to Spencer on the. Yes. It's true. And I would like. I would have the nano bubbler business everywhere. I'd be bubbling nanos. Everything. I don't know what that is. Let me just tell you nano bubbler for president. Anyway, we got. We got so much to get today. What's going on? What are you? Where are you? London. I'm in London where it's down to 72, but it's really. When it's 70, when it's 78 in Southern California, it feels pleasant with libraries. When it's 78 here, it feels like apricot. Yeah, it's you didn't like it. It's so hot. That was hot as fuckity fuck in France. And the metaphor for the UK is the following. I have air conditioning, except when you need it, it doesn't work. If it's 65 degrees, I can cool my house to 55. But once it gets, it gets above 80, it just doesn't work. Oh, wow. They're not good with the air conditioning. Now they got to get good with it because they every summer, it seems worse and worse. I mean, there are ovens, those apartments. They really are. They're really France. Last week France was the hottest place on earth. It's because the dog was wearing shorts. You were by the ocean, but in Paris, it was very hot. I am headed to Vermont where it's going to be really hot here, here, and it's going to be hot there. It's going to be hot all across the east coast this week. This heat stuff is really something. It is really something. It's become, we got a really thin car. By the way, data centers. No. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today. So let's dig in. There's so much news. Scott even participated in the group chat. He was like, there's so much news. What's going on? But actually his selections were correct. But because the first one is something, I think I was a little, I was surprised. Comcast is spinning off NBC Universal and Sky into a separate publicly traded company. The new NBC Universal will include NBC, the Universal Film Studio, theme parks, and Sky. This is the satellite service they have in Europe. Comcast keeps the infinity internet and wireless. So it's back to square one, I guess. The market liked it. Comcast shares jump 21% in pre-market trading Monday morning. It's not a totally clean break. Comcast will hold a roughly 20% stake in the new NBC universe. I think they still have a big stake in MS now too. And the deals expect to close in about a year. There's a catch, though analysts say, well, the spin off is NBC Universal more freedom to do deals that leaves Comcast broadband business more exposed at a time when cable is already under pressure. So talk about this. The people that are putting in place are very good executives. But does NBC now now re merge with MS now or what? And I don't know. You need to explain this to me. I really didn't quite understand why they're doing it now. What the troubles they're seeking. I know they had looked at buying Warner at one point. So could Netflix buy NBC Universal? There's a lot there. There's a lot of those studios. So thoughts. So this is why companies can collaborate. The board who decides to see this compensation hires a firm called Towers parent because the conversation is the hardest part and one of those important things that a board does. And because boards don't want to do any work, they pay this firm Towers parent two or three hundred thousand dollars and they come in with a survey. And the survey says on a scale of zero to a hundred fifty being the average compensation and they look at the industry and the size of the business. And so if you're running a bank that does 10 billion year in business, 50% might be three million year. But if you're running a bank that does 80 billion in business or whatever, then the average compensation is 20 million. So the incentives and also the ego and also the testosterone in the penis and the midlife crisis all lead incentives for the CEO to get bigger and bigger and bigger. And sometimes there are real synergies around different businesses, but almost always not. Typically what happens is you end up with a Frankenstein. And so the market gets to a point where you have these Frankenstein's and businesses that had no synergy. And what the market? It might change the matter. It's a turduckin a turduckin. Thank you for that. And what the market has a tendency to do is it looks at the shittiest business because it says there's no synergy here and it says, okay, New York Times, you own 17% of the Boston Red Sox and the Seventh Halls building in America. This, this is how much the building is worth. This is how much the Boston Red Sox are worth. But instead, we're going to look at your shittiest business, your regional newspapers, which traded four to five times EBITDA. And we're going to sign that multiple to the entire business because they don't give you any credit for the stuff that's working really well. So the disposition of assets becomes a creative to shareholders. And in this case, you have a media business that's strong and growing while the connectivity business is shrinking. And what they do is shareholders assign the multiple and the connectivity business to the strong and growing business. Last quarter the media division get this reported a 40% increase in revenue to nearly 12 million for the quarter. Theme parks grew 24%. Media grew 61% and studios grew 21% in over the same period. The connectivity division shrunk revenues, 3%. So what you have is. So it's connectivity that's not it. That's right. Residential connectivity shrunk about 4% while business connectivity grew 6%. So what happens is if you split these things apart, you have one company, the connectivity business, which is a mature business that's in structural decline but still spends off a ton of cash. And then you have a growth business. when it becomes a pure-play growth business gets a much higher multiple. And the result is a stock that was up 25% based on these two companies that have more focus. So what happens to each of them? Is they're like, "Look, you have MS. They split off MS now, and now it's trying to create its own little new division." And doing, well, for what it is, right? It actually has seen some growth under those executives. And then you have the media business that has, by the way, there's some fine executives at the media business. It's a very well-known company. Donna Langley, I think Mike, or if Mike. Anyway, it's a very smart group of people. Whenever I meet them, I'm always so impressed. But they weren't able to participate in the Warner thing, for example. And I know it was frustrating because they were actually the natural owner for that. I agreed. You know, I was like, of all the things, I was like, paramount, they're a bunch of incompetence. Netflix is too big and going to get in trouble. Comcast was the perfect buy for that. You know, in terms of quality people and the theme parks and everything else. So what happens here? And the other thing, just as a sidelight, the other two things could Netflix come in and do something here. I think it's too much. Disney's CFO has signaled the intent to keep the linear and streaming businesses together for now. They don't own a cable division and not split it off. So they're keeping those together, the studios and the streaming and everything else. So it seems like it's the same strategy if they're going to hold on to NBC, Universal Film Studio, theme parks and sky, right? So that's a little connectivity, I guess. But thoughts on that, what happens to each of these parts? What happens to the cable parts? And then what happens to the, I mean, could like Elon come in and buy the cable parts for Starlink? Or there were rumors of him buying one of the phone service businesses. Thoughts? Well, I mean, it's scary, but with a $2 trillion market cap, there's very little he couldn't buy right now. Right. So Versante, their stock is now 21% since this men off. I don't know what happens. Okay, first off, Disney for the time being is holding onto its cable assets. That means they have no one's offered the price they want. It will make sense for them to shed that business. Because the parks, the IRL business, the parks is an unbelievable business. So this is all a long way of saying, I'm not sure what they're going to do, but they have simplified and created pure place. Because here's the bottom line. If you put yourself in the shoes of an investor, they don't need the Robert's family to diversify for them. CEOs love diversification. Why? Okay, my connectivity business is down, but my parks will have 24%. In other words, they sleep better at night, because they can grow six, eight, 10% a year, and not worry that, oh, fuck, I got a problem at MSNBC. Whereas this is a thing, though, investors, I don't need you to diversify for me. I can buy Versaun stock if I think it's really cheap. I can buy the park's business stock if I think it's a grower and I want growth. But CEOs incentive and compensation, and quite frankly, wanting to sleep at night and be bigger and better, leads to an agglomeration or a conglomeration that eventually the stock market throws up on. And that's what's happened here. And you know what the next really, there's a stock right now that if it broke up, it would triple. You know what that company is? What's that? What is? Oh, I'll give you a hint. I went to their dinner last Sunday night. I don't know. What is it? Maybe you've mentioned it before. Oh, they'll give you another hint. VR, but only sub-scale. Oh, Snapchat. If Snap spun their Spectacles group, the stock would triple or quadruple. Oh, interesting. That is the most, that is the greatest unlock waiting. He loves them Spectacles, though. Well, that's the problem. It's a single, it's a dual-class shareholder in the Evan and controls the company. Yeah, he loves them Spectacles. Do you realize that I think Meta gets about $400 in market cap per user? Snap gets 17. Wow. Yeah, you're right. He should get rid of the Spectacles. If they spun and did a deal with Xiaomi or something, if they spun the Spectacles group and it was just a pure play social media platform, rocket ship. Interesting. Ooh, I like that idea. Get this. Do you know how much the stock is off the last five years? A lot. 93%. Yeah, it's crazy. 93%. A pure play, 500 million people a day, social media network that has the most attractive user base for advertisers in history, that is people under the age of 25. You get rid of this weeping sore called the Spectacles unit that is sub-scale, rocket ship. What happens to each of these stupid? So there's, there's versant, obviously, mourners, there's his own little nightmare, although there's rumors the CNN will get spun off with Rob Bonta and the California Attorney General. But what happens to each of these divisions? Well, I think, I think the medium parks business has real synergy because if you put out a Harry Potter film, you can have a Harry Potter ride, right? Yeah, right, right, exactly. The connectivity business should be run. They do. They do indeed. They just get, they just get, they just get focused. No, in terms of versant and the cable assets, those are declining businesses. But those can be amazing businesses. You go yellow pages. And that was, this is the weakest flex in the world. I was on the board of the world's largest yellow pages company. And all we did was just go around the world and buy other yellow pages companies. And basically, hold on to the sales people, get rid of everybody else and their cash machines. And that's what you're going to see. It doesn't make CNN should go into versant. And ABC should sell their shit. They need to consolidate the back end on these cable properties. And that's what they'll do. And they'll still be good businesses. They'll just be in decline. Yeah, that's absolutely right. They could buy. They could be the largest small player, right? It'll do well. It'll do well for a long time. Well, they're hugely profitable businesses. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It'll be interesting. I wonder if they'll bring versant back. Will they? Why would you? Why would you want them? No, I don't think so. Again, the story has to be clean, right? I mean, Alphabet's learned their lesson. They're going to spend Waymo. Waymo's already spun, I guess. It's an independent company. Why didn't Sky stay with the cable business? That's a core question. I don't know. That was the one that stuck in my head. Yeah. So it'll be interesting. Yeah, because they do. You're right. Theme parks, the film studio. NBC, I'm not sure where that fits in. Exactly. A broadcast network. I guess it just-- But Comcast and Hurst are the most underrated management teams in media. They're just very smart people who consistently do the right thing for shareholders. They're aggressive. They're smart. And they're totally under the radar. Like, they don't want-- they don't want their CEO's getting in trouble or making earnings doing good. They also couldn't play in the Warner thing. I remember-- I went to the Wicked premiere and I ran into a bunch of them. And they were like, we are the obvious right owner. I was like, oh, I know. But you're not getting it. Because Richie Rich over there. And the crazies at Netflix, you can't beat them, right? You can't beat either of those companies. But I think this does give them a cleaner shot at buying stuff up. There's all kinds of things for sale like Lionsgate. There's all manners stuff for sale in Hollywood. So we'll see what happens. You're going to see a lot of M&A as Scott Galloway says. Anyway, interesting move by Brian Roberts, who I really like a lot. I have to say, he's a classy guy. Everyone over there is classy. They're a classy gang. They're very comfortable. They're from Philadelphia, which means they've killed people. That's all I know. I'm sorry. Anyone who's-- Anyone-- any family that is self-made billionaires in Philadelphia, there's definitely people buried in the foundation of a building of that sky tower. You know why I have a good feeling for Brian Roberts is because I was working for Murdoch and then I went over to Comcast. And it was such a pleasure. Let me just tell you, it was such a different personality. Although it was more fun to the party. Anyway, let's go in a quick break. When we come back, why open AI might delay its IPO? We're all tech this week. Hey, what's up, guys? It's Babish. And on this week's episode of In the Booth, I'm joined by Chef Cookbook author and Food Network Legend, Alex Gourna Shelley. We're talking about shops, the Hamptons, and what it takes to make a cry worthy pasta. You can listen now wherever you get your podcasts. So like any good millennial, I have a love-hate relationship with Gen Z. It's the phenomenon rattling millennials. They just look at you. They want something bigger themselves, lifestyle's a priority. Motivation is being inspired. But regardless of how you feel about Gen Z, it's undeniable that they're changing national politics. Generation Z is increasingly showing less loyalty to traditional political parties. Many now more likely to identify as independent. So what is going on with the kids? I think the biggest misconception about Gen Z's politics right now is that all of a sudden they're all socialists. That is just not the case. Yeah. They are embracing candidates who are offering new bold ideas in the absence of those ideas from establishment Democrats. This week on America, actually, Gen Z researcher Rachel Jamfaza joins us to separate Gen Z fact versus fiction. It's not rocket science. And this is, you know, I keep saying like, young voters aren't that complicated after all. It's pretty simple. Catch us every Saturday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Scott, we're back. Open AI is reportedly considering delaying its IPO until next year, according to New York Times, the company has been planning to go public as soon as the third or fourth quarter. This year, valuation appears to be one of the sticking points. Sam Altman is reportedly holding out for a $1 trillion when they all want this. The company was valued at $8.50 billion back in margin at $50 billion. There's also some hesitation in light of SpaceX, IPO, which is sort of a bumpity, which has been trending downward after the sky-high debut, though it's doing a little better as we record. News of the possible delay, led to a tech sell-off, stock sell-off, with shares of Oracle, CoreWeave, and Softbank, all falling. And there's possibly that anthropic is breathing down their neck that they made to lay too. There was some chatter about that. So is it important for them to wait? As you talked about, the money is getting sucked out of the system. And their financials leaked a few weeks ago with losses increasing near the 8x in 2025, and spending hitting $34 billion. It's not the greatest story in the world. Thoughts, and of course, they've got anthropic right in front of them. I'm not breathing down their neck right in front of them. They're riding behind it. - I think this is not systemic, or I think this is an individual thing. And that is, I believe that anthropic is still gonna get out. This is what I call the great flippening. - Flippening, second word you made up. Is that a vulgar word you made up? - Flippening, yeah, there you go. There you go. In the legend tonight, come watch flippening. - The sex act doesn't. - There you go. Look at what that be. - Well, I feel as if I need to use my safe word right now. Maybe. Anyways, the great flippening. - I laugh at that every time. You said it. - It's good. It never gets old. - Hundreds of times to me, and I laugh every time, go ahead. - So, Q4 of 2025, open AI is the dominant leader. Right now, anthropic is the, we've never seen Avis overtake Hertz this fast. This isn't even Pepsi overtaking Coke. It's like RC Cola one morning is the market leader, and I think, I think anthropic gets out, but I think open AI, if they were gonna have to show their wares or open their cupboards, there was just gonna be evidence everywhere that anthropic is eating their lunch. And I talked a lot of CEOs about AI, and a company I'm an investor in section talks, it does all this helps companies upscale around AI, what their thing is the following. This quote, unquote, blame the model, and everyone's blaming open AI and swapping them out for anthropic, believing they're gonna get a much greater ROI. So, I think that basically, when we look back on the gray drawdown that will be AI evaluations that is I think gonna happen in the next 12 months, this will be seen as a real crack that kind of was a signal of what's to come. - Is it smart to wait? You talked about the sort of lack of cap, there's not enough money here, essentially. - I don't, if they could get out there wood, I think what this says is the CFO talked to the banker and the banker said, okay, there's no wallpapering over this. Your business has lost a ton of momentum, and then you combine it with the second thing that is different than anthropic. All men has taken the Amazon and Netflix, fake it until you make it spend more money than anyone else and your stock will go up. He's taken that to an extreme that is too much and that is if you look at how much money they are burning, I think what they S ones and they would be, they would be side by side immediately. Everyone would be comparing anthropic and open AI's financials against each other. And I think what you would see is the following. Not only is open AI massively lost momentum against anthropic, it is also operating much more promiscuously with cash. And that is despite anthropic's massive investments and massive losses, it's projecting that it'll break even by 2030. And Sam Altman's whole thing is, I know I'm committing to a trillion dollars in CAPEX 'cause the future there's only one winner. And I think the market, I think the S ones side by side, which you accompany that is losing momentum and is spending way too much money and losing too much money. And I think the bankers have come back and said the fall. - They don't want the comparisons. - Well, this is what's gonna happen in the next six months. This is gonna be the great exit from cost. This is gonna be the great reduction in spending and CAPEX commitments by open AI. They are gonna massively decrease their expenditure and CAPEX commitments 'cause I think the bank-- - Oh, then it hits Oracle. It hits a lot of them and hits all of them, right? - Still an amazing company. It's still growing really fast. But the amount of money they were committing to in terms of CAPEX has gotten out of control. And then you couple that with a reversal in momentum. I think Goldman and JP Morgan and the CFO have said to Sam, this is gonna be hard. - So then what do they do if Anthropic gets out at over a trillion, they've gotta meet that, right? Speaking of Dick Measuring Contest, they kind of want that number. Can they actually get out then in 2027? - No, I think this is a cost story. And that is, I think they're just gonna have to reduce their commitment for-- - They gotta clean it up. - Yeah, because, okay, say they get out at 700 and not a trillion, that's still pretty good. I mean, at some point they're gonna need to raise capital in the public markets, I think. Or maybe could they raise in the private markets? The weird thing is, I wonder if TBG and the private equity firms, they got a 16 or a 17% Hick, which is really our guaranteed return, which is really unusual in the private markets. I wonder if they would still do that deal today because the reversal and fortunes here has been like nothing I've ever seen in business without a scandal. And so-- - Weird question, does it get bought? - There's so few players that can buy it. I mean, it's a handful of companies that can afford to buy it. It's one of the big tech companies or SpaceX. That's it. There's maybe five companies-- - There was all this online plotting that Elon did, sort of made sure that SpaceX IPO was too big and then failed a little bit to stop them to say no. - Well, if the next round, rather than do a down-round, what Altman did was, he offered-- - He guaranteed it. - Yeah, he offered these terms that typically don't agree to. I guaranteed return because he wanted the headline number to be whatever it was, $850 billion or whatever. But at some point, if they start running into a cash crunch, which I don't think they will, the bottom, I think the second half of 2026 is about Sam Altman rationalizing the expense side of the business and their capital commitments 'cause it's still growing like crazy. - And then Anthropic goes out, doesn't delay. - If I were Daria, I'd wanna be like, I'm on top bitch, I'm going public. - Yeah, yeah, right away. Yeah, they've got to. It's a momentum story for them, absolutely. - And they have a great story. I think the S1 is gonna look really good for Anthropic. - Comparison, yeah, in comparison. I mean, what's really interesting is how kind of pissy the open-air people are about the story Dario gets over and over again. I mean, he can be imperious himself and a little bit self-righteous, which is interesting. But I think that he's got the better story he does and a lot of this is narrative. And it actually be good for Anthropic for not to have them there. Although, you know, looking better than open AI is a good thing for them, right, presumably. He hasn't been as much as Spendy. This is the CFO, this is the CFO and JP Morgan, and Goldman Sachs had, you don't want these numbers public right now. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And by the way, the perception to the ones that did go public wasn't great. All right, we'll see what happens. Interesting story, interesting developing story. But it will, if impact companies like Oracle and other ones, you saw that draw, just a small drawdown of their shares. 'Cause they have so many commitments all around the board. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll discuss Pete Buttigieg getting targeted. Scott, we're back. I want to talk about a story that came out over the weekend about Pete Buttigieg's family. Buttigieg says police showed up at his house after anonymous tip claim just four-year-old twins were at risk, CPS investigated claim and the Michigan State Police later confirmed. The report was completely fabricated. While the incident was being investigated, Buttigieg was not allowed to be alone with this four-year-old children for 24 hours and they were interviewed by authorities without either parent present. The incident happened during Pride Month right after the family posted a father's day photos online. This was terrifying to someone like myself. This was like, it was just some tip that was called in about another tip of something. Pete allegedly, it was all nonsense from the, but they had to because they're authorities and he's a well-known person. They had to actually investigate, which is their job. I think they felt sick to do it, but turned out to be all false. It's a version of swatting, but more nefarious. Swarming. Swarming or whatever. And he's polling well for the 20-28 presidential run. This is just, I can't imagine, I know them pretty well. I know, especially Tastin, this is the fear they have as gay parents and something I've discussed with them. This is the fear. This is this sort of weird feeling people have about gay parenting that is just, I don't even want to call it gay parents, just parenting, but that they get stuck with. They're wonderful parents and these kids are lovely. And for them to have to go through this, just sent a chill when I read his piece. And he's not someone who usually is particularly dramatic, but he was curious about what happened as he should have been any thoughts on this. I don't think this is a gay thing. I think this is stochastic terrorism. I know a couple-- - Oh, interesting. - I know a couple, a straight couple in the Midwest, and Child Protective Services showed up at their door one day. It said we need, we're from Child Protective Services. We need to speak to your children. They had no idea what was going on. By the way, the whole neighborhood found out about it. There's no way you recover from that. No matter how innocent you are proven, that's on your Wikipedia page. If you're ever on trial for anything, the prosecutor can ask, weren't Child Protective Services called to your house? And when I go through GSA, I immediately feel guilty. I immediately like, oh, where's that joint in my pot? I've done something wrong. When they, when you see your suitcase go to the part where they, they investigate it, you immediately feel guilty. How does a four-year-old not remember that strangers who you're supposed to speak to who have the authority to separate you from your parents start asking these types of questions, how do you not somewhere in your brain think? Are mommy and daddy not good people? How do you, how do the parents, the community, their reputation, and the kids ever recover from that? Ever. I agree. And this is the problem. This is a result of the fetishization and anonymity being linked to shareholder value. And that is, democracy depends upon disagreement, but also accountability. And when the loudest voices face no consequences, the most thoughtful ones log off and fear, and what happens here is the following. Child protective services, their heart is in the right place. They're trying to encourage people to, to bubble up real instances of child abuse. Yeah, because they usually miss a lot of them, right? That's right, but here's the problem, and here's what needs to be done. The fix isn't to end anonymity. It's smarter than that. The solution is verified yet anonymous credentialing. And that is online. There should be a digital stamp that proves you are a unique human being without revealing which human you are. When you call child protective services, and as it ended up, so the family I was referencing, you know what, it ended up two months later, they found out one of their daughters was in a beef with another girl in the same high school, and the rival girl called this happens all over. But here's the problem. The family faces no consequence. So if you call child protective services, we're going to guarantee your anonymity. But after investigation, if we find out, there's no evidence, guess what? We're going to investigate you. I agree, I was like, who are these people who did this? And, you know, swathing is bad. Swatting is dangerous because there's guns involved, like with kids and everything else. And to me, I so heinous the idea of it. Swatting is when you call in that there's some terrible thing happening at the house and then, you know, SWAT teams come in as they should because they never know, right? And so this is such an abuse of a system that's already broken, right? It's already a problematic system. They don't catch enough child abuse. And sometimes kids don't get checked on and you read those stories over and over again. But in this case, what sick fuck would think of this thing? Like what sick fuck would make this stuff up? That to me, and I would like to find them. And, you know what I do to them, but I think the authorities really need to have a system. And the thing is, you don't want to discourage people from telling on real issues of abuse, right? That's the thing. It's just, I was so upset by this. This is really upsetting, but the bigger issue is the following. That same architecture, anonymous consequence-free, infinitely scalable online platforms, they let bots, flood elections, radicalize millions and make public service a target sport. And the bottom line is, this is where the right gets in wrong and the left gets in wrong. The internet doesn't have a speech problem. It has an accountability problem. And our fetishization for free speech and anonymity has resulted in a total lack of accountability. If you believe the kids across the street are being abused and child protective services shows up and they find out, oh, you misunderstood the situation, you're still not liable. You didn't do anything wrong. Your reasons were valid. But if it finds out you're just a homophobic fucking weirdo or your daughter has had a beef with another girl in the high school- - There should be consequences. - There's consequences. I think Pete was talking about that. I hope, look, I know they're worried about these issues as gay parents as we all are, 'cause I was always worried about, I've been, it just sticks in the back of your mind. If it prevents him from running, which really, I hope it doesn't, that's what I hope it doesn't, I mean, 'cause let me just say, they're wonderful parents, they're wonderful people and they're wonderful parents. - Yeah, but what do you say to the kids? And there's this strange people in suits. - I need you to go stay at the whole thing, is it? - Like what do you say to your kids? Like a four-year-old? What do you say to them? - I wouldn't even, I don't even want to think about it. It was so upsetting. Anyway, Pete and Justin were so sorry. This is just, this is disgusting and this is not how you behave towards people who are decent, great parents. And whoever did this, I hope they find you and I hope you have some sort of reckoning. As of this recording, by the way, we're gonna move on. House Speaker Mike Johnson says he's sending the landmark housing bill to the White House days after Trump abruptly canceled a signing ceremony for that bill. Interesting move. The bill which passed both House of Congress with overwhelming bipartisan support aims to, and also would be a win for Trump, aims to bring down housing costs, expand home ownership and boost construction. But Trump says he won't sign it into law until Congress passes his Save America Act, which would require a photo ID to vote and effectively end mail-in voting. By the way, the Supreme Court just upheld a Mississippi law for later writing mail-in ballots, a blow to the Trump administration's efforts to queer the election, which is what they're trying to do. And the housing bill can still become law, even if Trump doesn't sign it. So it's technical. If he doesn't sign it, it can become law. If he vetoes it, I believe they have the votes to overcome his veto. So they're kind of putting him in a position. Under the Constitution, the president doesn't sign a bill within 10 days, it becomes law without a signature. And again, Congress can override this one. And so it was interesting that Johnson did this. He obviously knows it's a good thing for it to have this on the Republican record, or at least take credit for it, even though it's kind of bipartisan thoughts on that. Housing is one of the biggest problems in America, whether it's, I was reading this morning that Finland took an officer instead of focusing on mental health or veterans affairs for the homeless, they just focus on housing. They're like, just build sheep housing and get people in housing. And it ends up that housing is a weird form of birth control that every 10% increase in housing prices, birth rates go down 1%. It reduces people coupling, it reduces birth rates, it reduces self-esteem. Housing, affordable housing is really important. And what we have here is again, the incumbents, once they've owned homes, make it more and more difficult for new permits. It's gone way too far, Congress to their credit, recognized it. This bill attempts to get rid of NIMBY legislation and proposed the NIMBY legislation. Credits, more credits, more federal sponsorship for communities that have more housing. This is, I actually thought the bill itself when you read it is pretty weak sauce, but it's a very strong symbolic movement in the right direction. And in addition, when this the last time, Congress voted 358 to 32 on anything. - Right, right. - So, and this makes all sorts of sense. Trump getting in the way of this was just stupid. And again, it's veto proof. So I think this is a win. - What does he do? What does he do? Sign, he's got to sign it and take credit. - Oh yeah, I think so. - He should, but he's still gonna try everything possible. This save act that's not gonna pass, President Trump, it's not. It's not happening. So, why does he keep doing this? - Oh, shit. I mean, you're asking me to get into this guy's brain. I would have thought he would, if I were advising him, I would say, oh my God, put on a tool belt, like you're on a construction side, and run around, and take credit for this thing. Take credit for a housing. This is a big, big issue for Americans. - Right, you know, instead he's obsessed with, you know, now he wants to build a golf course and put trees in front of the White House. He's just obsessed with all these weird, obsessed with things around the DC area to preserve his legacy, which seems more interest to him. He went and visited. It was pouring rain yesterday and he was out at Haynes Point where he wants to put in a golf course of some sort. There is a golf course there, but he wants to improve it. And then putting maple trees around Lafayette Square, all this stuff, and then of course, touting his, really loser, his American state fair, whatever that was nobody went to. He just seems all obsessed with that kind of stuff and not something that is, even if it's symbolically, even symbolically, it's important to, I don't get this, this guy, I think he's terrified, that things are gonna go very badly after November. And so it seems to, he's gonna self-sude with maple trees. - There you go, self-sude. - Self-sude, right? Anyway, but he should take credit for this one and he won't. All right, Scott, we're gonna have one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. (upbeat music) - Okay, Scott, we're gonna do some wins and fails. I think I shall go first. There were so many failed choices. The grift watch of the Trump mining deal and cause a stand with Don and Eric, stand a profit along with Lutnik's, Lutnik family. What's happening in Venezuela is really depressing, watching them try to find people, so many people died. But I'm gonna be a little personal here. There's two people who died this week, who I know very well, and we're very impactful my life. One was omalic. one of the very early tech bloggers, someone who had worked very like me in regular media. But then sort of spun off and started doing a really fascinating kind of bloggy and yet fully reported attitude and all stuff back, way back in the day an excellent reporter. He also did events, he did parties. And I really, I got a lot of inspiration from home who was one of the most jolly fellows. I just really enjoyed it. We fought a lot about a lot of things but what an amazing impact he had on early tech journalism when it was, you know, a lot more hopeful in a lot of ways. But he actually did call people on things very early, very wonderful guy. He had, you know, he had shifted to becoming a venture capitalist. I didn't go out that direction. But just a really wonderful, and he's getting much deserved praise from all of us who are around them. And he struggled with hard issues for a long, long time and was just a really wonderful guy. The other one was my assistant. I don't have an assistant but I did for many years at daily, also died. Another, he had also had health problems with around diabetes and everything else. And just a tremendous important part of the growth of my businesses in the beginning of them and work for me for a long time was an invaluable help. And, you know, the kind of person, you know, and hear about, he was a reporter, but did so much stuff to really build the businesses Walt and I built and just was a wonderful guy and was wonderful to my kids, especially Louis and Alex took them on camping trips with his partner Mark and just one of these hardworking, really wonderful people who helped so many people and just really sad. I'm sorry, Louis just went to see him recently. So I'm glad that happened, but really being in fact on my life and just a tremendously huge, charted person. So that is my fail, although I also, my heart goes out of people and then as well and everything else. And my win is the Supreme Court just rejected Trump's attempt to get $5 million in the Eugene Carroll sexual abuse case outside. This is the end of the road for him. Now, I think he's gonna, I just texted Robby Kaplan. Let me see if she wrote back, but who is the lawyer in the case, we'll see where it goes. On the smaller verdict, he has to pay the $5 million. There is the $80, I think $85 million, $80 million verdict that is still being disputed, but he has to give her the $5 million, and which I just kind of love. And now he is very firmly what he has accused him. He did and he can't take it any further. And we'll see on the second part, which is a definition related to this case, anyway, good for Eugene Carroll and pay up Donald Trump for what you did to her. And I just felt that it was like today is the day that Supreme Court kicks Trump and the teeth a little bit after giving him a lot of wins on immigration, which were that the Haitians, particularly the Haitian ruling was really terrible for really hardworking people in this country. In any case, congratulations to Eugene Carroll. - Nice, okay, so my fail is I can't get over, well, you could argue it's a win for broadcast news, but there were two really illuminating interviews this weekend. The first was John Carl from ABC News interviewed Senator Todd Young and along with Senator Mark Kelly. And they talked about how President Trump accused Mark Kelly of sedition. Okay, so first off, Senator Kelly flew combat missions and also flew the Spatial of 20,000 fucking miles an hour. I mean, there are a few things more patriotic or then the actions of Senator Mark Kelly. And they asked, I appreciate John Carl calling Senator Todd Young out in front and say, how come you didn't do agree with this? And of course, Senator Todd Young broke into song about he texted Senator Kelly to make sure he was all right, but he didn't say a fucking word. And at some point I'm waiting for people before they are, you know, lose their primary. At NYU, we have, we have a second year, which is really a waste of money. It's such that we can charge the kids 140,000 odd 70. And we teach all these electives like sustainability and leadership and ethics. Let me save you $7,000 on the leadership course of any major university. Do the right thing even when it's hard. There, you just save $7,000. And we bring in a formally important person to talk about what a fucking amazing person they are and how the world was against them, but they did the right thing. And we call it a leadership course. Thank you for your $7,000 student debt. There is such a lack of leadership on the most obvious issues. And I don't understand the calculus from a Senator who I believe is probably a good man in respects his fellow colleague coming out and saying, "It is wrong to accuse Senator Kelly "an American hero in patriot of sedition." That is just beyond the line. And then the same time, Ryan Nobles, who was an outstanding stand-in for Kirsten Welker, who I also think is wonderful. I meet the press, basically kind of got in the face of Senator Roger Marshall and asked him to cite a single example of where voter fraud has influenced an election. And I thought he, I watched it and I'm like, "Go." And of course, this guy just went into blather and-- Doctors need to be trusted, but I was like, "What in the fuck are you talking about?" He's a doctor. Pilots need to be, and it's like, "Pilot, okay." But there's no problem here, planes crash. There is no, no one has ever been able to provide evidence that a single election has been influenced much less decided by voter fraud. This guy's been all over the TV of the Dr. Roger from Kansas, the senator, and he's doing the same song and dance everywhere. I don't know why, maybe he's in a tough fight. I don't know, it's weird. He does this a lot. He's done this a lot. Well, I understand that the only way you can do good is to get elected, but at some point, they've got to recognize that, you know, this guy is becoming a lame trodokin, as you would say. And at some point, they're going to show something resembling leadership, and I can't swear the calculus of the senator coming out and saying, "Senator Kelly is an American hero." Exactly. I don't get it. It's the same thing when Fox News is broadcasting from that American state's thing, which looks like the fire festival. And they're like, "Look at all the people." And I'm like, "There's nobody behind you." Like, how do they do that? Peter Doosie, how did you manage to do that? Oh, everyone's having fun here, and there's 26 people there. And it was so weird. I don't get it. When are they gonna give, when are they gonna give? When do you think they're gonna give on? Same thing with this guy. It's like, you know, don't believe your lie in I. It's kind of thing. I don't know. Anyways, I guess it's sort of a win for ABC and NBC News. And these programs still matter, despite their declining audiences, they do are still really relevant. And specifically, it distracts me at some point. Senators who are elected to six-year terms, at some point are gonna be in to understand that, you know. Okay, with the definition of gonna go to leadership, my win is that Bill Maher was awarded the. Mark Twain Award. The Mark Twain Award. And I thought it was really fitting that it was at the Kennedy Center. But look, I have said this, something I don't like about myself is, I have been way too influenced by comments in social media, which I think are so fucking corrosive 'cause they start influencing you to say this type of thing and not this type of thing. And I've tried really hard in the last couple of years to say, I'm gonna say what I mean, mean what I say and I don't care what the comments are. There are very few posts that get as much blowback is when I say the following and I mean it. Bill Maher is a hero of mine. And I think if you were to take every political plundit and have it zero say, I don't know who the craziest right wing person is and on 100 be the craziest left wing person, if I had to identify someone who was exactly at 50, it would be Bill Maher. And evidence that he is a centrist is that everyone appears to hate the guy publicly and then every podcast I go on the host when I follow up and say, is there anything I can do to help you? They ask me can I introduce them to someone at Bill Maher. The guy has been in the business for 33 years. He is fearless, he is funny. And his contribution isn't defending the idea that people who disagree should be allowed in the same room is that the weirdest thing is that it's so remarkable. And today that is remarkable. And he didn't build an audience by telling people what they wanted to hear. He built one by telling everyone something they didn't want to hear. He literally pisses off everybody. - Yeah, which is why he gets above. I mean, he does, he does seek out his earlier stuff on Islam and stuff like that. So he is who he is. And I do, I'm always fascinated by how much I get pulled back on your BF, which is interesting. Or why are you on that show when I go on? It's a really interesting discussion and I don't lump him in with all the others who I do find someone heinous in that regard. And I agree, I think he deserved that. And he's very funny. I think he, I don't always agree with him. That's for sure. But it's really is. - That's the point. - Yeah, I don't find it, I don't know, he attracts me. an unusual amount of air he really does. You will get pushed back on this. When I say is a role model, and there are a few, like when I graduated, I was trying to think, when I graduated from college, when I got my first bonus check, when I sold my first business, there are moments in your life you remember professionally. One of those biggest moments for me was three or four years ago during COVID when Susan Bennett called me and said we'd like you to be on Bill Mark, because it's the only show my dad watches. Susan's a producer. She's a producer? Terrific producer. And I think the guy, I think the guy is fearless, and he brings to light the notion that free speech isn't tested by popular opinions. It's tested by the people who piss you off, and he does that, and he's an equal opportunity agitator. And he was one of the last people in television willing to make both sides equally uncomfortable. I mean, he's really an independent voice. I don't think his contribution will be remembered as changing minds. It was proving that you can disagree without deciding the other person is evil. And his legacy, although he's a great comedian, I don't think his legacy is comedy. It's defending the proposition that democracy requires conversation, not just conviction. And we have lost so much of that, and I sort of know him but know him well, but the people he surrounds himself with, here's some things about Bill Mark. He has this big rant on how he doesn't have kids and doesn't married. Everyone around him has been working with him for 20 years. The woman in makeup, the guy who brings you to your COVID test, his producers, I think he's a very loyal man. I think he shows up. I think he works very hard. I think he's unafraid. I think he's a great role model for people like me want to be centrist distinct of the hate you get because you piss off everybody. I thought he's an outstanding recipient for the Mark Twain prize. Anyways, my win is the unafraid, courageous believer in free speech that pisses off everybody and everybody wants to be on his show after 33 years and that is Bill Mar. Good for you. Good for you. You used to do care about comments. You're never going to not care about comments. Never. Well, I'm addicted to the affirmation of others care. It's really pathetic. Not pathetic. You'll give yourself a hard time. It does get to you. It doesn't get to me as much as it gets to you, but it gets to me too. I think you will, it's okay for it to hurt. I have to tell you. Well, shaming is a very powerful feeling because until about 50 years ago, if you were shamed and expunge from the tribe, it meant you were going to starve or be eaten by a bear in 72 hours or less. Well, you're not going to get eaten by a bear. Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think so. You're vulgar, but you're not going to eat by a bear. But no, I agree with you. I think Bill deserves that award. I know people, we often disagree. We really do. But the kind of, I mean, I see, listen, if you don't like Bill Mar, don't watch him. I don't know what else to say. That's my feeling. That's what I say to people. I'm by way, people in my family, one of my kids is like, why are you going on his show? And I'm like, you know what? It's under your fucking business. I am. Because I like going on it. I enjoy the show. So I'm going on, I think July 29th, I'm going to take Beata and I'm going to take both my sons. I never take them all to anything. And I said, this is important to me. I want you to come with me. Oh, okay. Well, anyway, good ones. Good ones for you. That was a good one. Can I do one more refill and I don't want any, I just want to say Scott Wiener is a friend of mine. And what happened to him in San Francisco this week was heinous. I don't usually mine criticism around Israel. And I think it's really important for, and I don't think every criticism Israel is anti-Semitic. But what happened to him and he has been a supporter of all manner of things in San Francisco, he was, it was, was anti-Semitic, was really truly and strange. And that kind of, that really shouldn't, I feel terrible for Scott for because he's been, you know, there's lots of things you could disagree with Scott on, but not what they were yelling at him about. And so it had a real tinge of real hatred. And that really repulsed me in a way that I usually am okay with some criticism, with criticism of all manner of countries and stuff like that. And so just, that cannot be tolerated by the Democrats, that cannot be tolerated, that kind of behavior. So I would just want to say that, but I feel bad for Scott who's been a really hardworking public servant. Anyway. All right. So that's the show. Congratulations to Bill Mar. If you want to hear from you, send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551 Pivot elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe this week and on. I just spoke to Jim Bankoff, the CEO of Vox Media and Meredith Copet Levian, President and CEO of the New York Times, at Can Lions, which was really fun. We talked about the ways they adapted to a changing media landscape and the effects of AI on publishing. And it was a great session. And thanks to UTA for hosting us and keeping it quiet. Let's listen to a clip. The leverage is even the LLMs will need an information ecosystem with high quality, independently produced, verified information if they don't have it. Their products will not ultimately be good either. We all want to live in a society where quality information is available. And I believe they do too. I think that these are information companies, these are information tools. And I think at a certain point for you to have a healthy functioning democracy, you have to have high quality information and people have to be able to identify the difference. This was a really good discussion and we had a little testing this around some a couple of things. But it was great. It was a really interesting discussion about media and where it's going in merit, both Scott and I have a huge regard for her and that Jim Beckov guy is nice too. So you want a little known fact about the CEO of the York Times? No, let me tell you. She's got a dreamy boyfriend. He's a tall, drinkable lemonade. Did you met him? Yes, I did. I went up to her and I'm like, "That guy, he's so handsome and she looks around and she's like, "I know." She's great. She's like literally like, "I'll take my masculinity to go to Jesus Christ." I love everything about Meredith, she's a great executive, she's a great parent, she's really, she's all that in a bag of chips as they say and so lucky for him to have her. Okay, that's the show, thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Today's show was produced by Larry Neiman, sewing Marcus Taylor Griffin, Todd Wiseman and Christine Driscoll, additional assistance from Kate Gallagher and Brad Sylvester. Good evening, Todd Entry, there's episode. Thanks also to Jeb Rose, Miss Rivera and Dan Shalon, the Shark Chorus Boxed Meeters, who is a executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Boxed Meet A. We'll be back later on the week for another breakdown of All Things Tech and Business.