Combating the Maternal Health Crisis, with Allyson Felix

There's no way that today it should be more dangerous for me to give birth than it was for my mother, but that is the reality. 80% of the deaths and complications that women of color face are preventable. It's a staggering stat, but it also gives me so much hope that we can improve these outcomes. Welcome to the Best Leaders Podcast from US News and World Report. I'm Eric Gertler, Executive Chairman and CEO of US News. This is a pivotal moment for leadership, which is why we chose to bring back our Best Leaders Program, highlighting and celebrating those who don't just influence us, but inspire us through principled visionary leadership. With this podcast, we'll have a chance to go even deeper into their lives, their stories, and their lessons in leadership. Allison Felix is a champion on the track and off of it. Of course, many of you know Felix is being the most decorated athlete in track and field history, having won 31 medals in the Olympics and World Championships. But in 2018, during the emergency birth of her daughter, she suffered from severe preeclampsia that nearly caused both her and her daughter their lives. After that experience, Felix shared her story publicly and has become a fierce advocate for maternal health, spotlighting the plight of too many mothers who face health challenges and disparities. Felix is also an entrepreneur. She launched a women's athletic shoe company in 2021, and she is a founder and leader of Always Alpha, a management firm focused on women's sports. Felix retired from competition in 2022, but with the Olympics returning to her hometown of Los Angeles in two years, it's no surprise that she has more barrier breaking on her mind. And in fact, shortly after we recorded our conversation, Felix announced that she was returning to running and that she is aiming to compete in L.A. in 2028. Wow, let's get to it. Here's Alison Felix. Let's start with athletics. You were undoubtedly a great runner. What sparked your interest in running? Yeah, well, thank you for having me. You know what? It was, I think just regular childhood stuff that sparked my interest in running. I grew up in my neighborhood, super active, and I found this sport late, and it was really just because I was in high school, a new school, and my family encouraged me to go out for the track team really to make friends. So it was really a social thing. And then I realized, wow, this is this is pretty cool, and I'm good at it, and I found the friends, and it was, became my thing. Well, I would say good is an understatement. You were great, but you clearly also had this competitive spirit. It wasn't just that you were clearly a natural. Where did that competitive spirit come from? Was it natural? Was it, look at these other kids? Tell me about that. Yeah, I think it really was natural. It was the way my family was also very competitive and all everything. Whether we were playing board games or just something around the house, my dad and my brother, they were really relentless. They never let me win in anything, and so I think I just grew up liking to compete, and really not being afraid of losing because I never won at home. So it was always something that was exciting for me. That's amazing. It's always interesting how the family dynamic affects certain things. So who were your mentors? Who were the people that inspired you as you went on that journey? Yeah. I mean, in the sport, because I did come to it late, I learned later who was who, and my coach's wife, Jackie Joanna Kersey, she was someone in the sport who I just looked up to. She phenomenal athlete, but also just what she did outside of the sport. She had her own foundation. She gave back to her community. I felt like she had such grace. So she was someone who I really looked to, and also to think about something outside of the sport. I think she was the first person that I started to look to. It's great to do things here, but there's more. Sure. So when we start thinking about outside the sport, something happened to you in 2018, which was life changing to say the least. And of course, in 2018, your daughter was born. But walk us through what happened when you went in for the 32 month checkup and how that started to change your life. Yeah, you know, I didn't have a good pregnancy. I went in for a routine appointment, and immediately was alerted that something was wrong. Got further testing and monitoring. And eventually I was admitted to the hospital with a severe case of pre-clampsia. And I think I was remotely aware of statistics around women of color and, you know, in birthing outcomes. But I didn't have a good understanding or education around it. And so I was extremely scared and didn't know what it all meant. And it all moved quickly. I eventually things that same evening spiraled downward. And eventually I was rushed in for an emergency C section. My daughter was born two months early. And she had a month long stay in the NICU. And I had my own battles regaining my health from the pre-clampsia. But we walked out of the hospital together. And that whole experience, it just, it opened my eyes, you know, that there is a crisis happening in America for women of color. And, you know, there, I wanted to be involved in some sort of solution or awareness or shining a light on the issue that wasn't uncommon. You know, I almost died in childbirth. But for black women, that is not rare. And that, to me, was just heartbreaking. So you're learning about, you know, a much larger issue. But first, you have to learn to manage your own health care. And what did you learn about that in the journey from the time of the birth of your daughter? I learned so much. I did a deep dive, you know, when I was in the hospital. And just everything from, you know, how to advocate for yourself. And, you know, the biases that are in the medical system. And, you know, even learning about pre-eclampsia and what it means and signs to look for, I learned about, you know, having a doula and a midwife. And all of these things that, you know, you're not always told when you, you know, at the early stages. And yeah, I learned that we need to raise awareness. And we need to have these conversations in the mainstream. And it felt like, you know, crash course and all of these things I didn't even know were happening. And so that experience really led you to become an advocate, an advocate for health care and advocate for the health of black women. And around that time, or shortly thereafter, you found your voice and you decided to write an essay in ESPN. What led to that? And what did, what did that essay say? So I had a really, at that same time that I was going through, you know, that very traumatic birth experience. I was also facing a huge dispute with my longtime sponsor, a Nike, and a really difficult time. And for many women, when they start families in our sport of track and field, historically, they have not been supported. And so I watched that happen. And then I watched it happen to me as well. I was scared to disclose my pregnancy. Even before, I was going through renegotiation. And even before I did tell them about my pregnancy, I had been offered a contract that was 70% less than my previous contract. And so that amplified the fear. And so I asked for maternal protections. And basically, what that means is our contracts, our performance base, you go to the Olympics or World Championships, you get a bonus, you don't, you get a reduction. So if you have a baby during that time, there's nothing to protect you and give you time to get back to that top level. And so that's what led to the op-ed. It was saying that, you know, they were willing to give me the time. You know, when I asked for it, they said, yes, but when the contract came back, there was no legal wording to tie that time to pregnancy. And so they weren't willing to set the precedent for all female athletes. And I think because I had gone through that battle with my daughter and, you know, watching her fight, and it just was a deep pull that I needed to speak out. And I needed to say something. And I need to share, not just what I have. been through. But so many women who were under NDA who had gone through, you know, the same thing. And yeah, found my voice and talked about it. And it was a couple weeks later that Nike and several other companies. They changed their maternal policy for female athletes. And today they offer 18 months of protection. That's amazing. And no one would have realized you had to lead the battle in terms of the financial disparities of dealing with, you know, the differences between men and women, you know, in track and field in the world of athletics. I think you also started to understand that on the healthcare side that black women were three times as likely to die during pregnancy. There were all these healthcare issues. I think that was also a learning experience for you. And I think you also started to talk about that. Yeah, absolutely. When I learned those things, you know, when I learned, like, you know, I'm at this huge risk and no one ever told me, then I started to talk to friends and they didn't know what pretty clumsy I meant. They didn't know that they were at risk. And I got asked to testify before Congress and the Ways and Means Committee. And that was, you know, a powerful experience of there are so many stories, you know, and just putting a voice to mine, but trying to amplify this issue because there's no way that today it should be more dangerous for me to give birth than it was for my mother. But that is the reality. And have you talked to, you know, other athletes, I think, you know, other leading black athletes, like, you know, Serena Williams and others and have joined forces or talked about these issues. Are these, you know, in a sense, we all look for people that we can share our experiences with. Yeah, I mean, Serena has been vocal around her, you know, complications giving birth. I've had several teammates in Rio are four by one that won the gold medal. There's four members of our team and three of us, you know, had complications giving birth that were extreme. One of my teammates Tori passed away. And, you know, here, you're looking at the, you know, we're in the best shape, the fittest. And so this is a crisis that doesn't discriminate, you know, and we have to put more research behind it to truly understand all of these factors. But it is a conversation, you know, that we're having because we know that even with the privilege that we have, the excellent medical care that typically we find, if we are still finding ourselves in these situations, then many, many other women are as well. When you wrote first your op-ed, an essay in ESPN and then the op-ed in the New York Times, tell me what was going through your mind. I mean, you know, was a very courageous act. I mean, absolutely terrified. Because I also have been an athlete. I in the past, I hadn't really spoken out on anything, you know, and that wasn't, I hadn't found my voice before. And so it really terrified me for, you know, a number of reasons. I wasn't sure what the response was going to be. I also knew that I still wanted to compete. And I wanted to, you know, make it back to the Olympics. And I felt there would be consequences, you know, in speaking out. But then on the other side of it, I felt I needed to do it. You know, I felt a real responsibility after, you know, being able to walk out of the hospital when that's not the case for so many women and for so many families. And that really, you know, that really touched me and changed me. And so I kind of put aside my own fear because I felt like, you know, maybe there could be something that comes from it. And just on a, in a sense, on a friendship basis. I mean, you are in this circle with all these athletes. Did the athletes come to you and say, thank you for doing that and congratulate you and, you know, give you a sense of pride in terms of representing them as they did it. You know, it was really interesting. Even athletes who were under India at the time and who couldn't, you know, support me publicly came to me and a number of them shared a struggle that I wasn't even aware of, you know, and to see that and I could completely respect and understand what they, you know, their position in their situation. But I think the most encouraging thing has been to see the shift in the culture around female athletes and becoming mothers. And it has completely changed. We're seeing athlete after athlete, you know, be able to make that choice if they would like to start a family and the peak of their career. It's supported. And so I think that's been the biggest reward. I think that's just amazing. So you've seen the change from your fellow athletes. Have you seen the same change from the, you know, the larger sports world? I know, for example, maybe you want to share how the first nursery came about in the Olympic village. I mean, have you seen those sorts of changes going on? Yeah, I think we're starting to break down the systems. I mean, there's, we have a ways to go. But I feel like we have momentum and we're going in the right direction in Paris, the last Olympics. I was able to champion and bring a nursery for the first time to the Olympic village. And that was huge, you know, to get the support from the International Olympic Committee to have a presence in the village and just for athletes to see that, you know, this is something that's possible. Right. Was huge. And so, you know, I'm going to keep pushing for changes like that in better ways that we can, you know, support and show up for athletes. So did your daughter use that nursery? And was she there? And did she like it? I was able to, yeah, bring my daughter. And also my son, he was three months old. He was like the perfect age for the nursery. And so we got, he got to come and play in it. And, you know, and then I also got to talk to a lot of the athletes who were using it. And that was just like I had chills, you know, seeing their response. And a lot of them, you know, just really appreciated it. So you had, you know, you had your dual role, you were, you know, working on the track and field. And then you're at the nursery because certainly your job is a mother. That is a 24 hour job. So keeps you busy. But now you have, you have other jobs. I mean, you're an advocate, you're an entrepreneur. You know, let's, let's start with the role of advocate, which certainly you've done. And tell me how you still advocate for women's rights, for, you know, maternal health issues. And then I want to talk about all the entrepreneurial things that that you're doing. I mean, maternal health continues to be a top priority for me. About a year and a half ago, Melinda French Gates selected me as one of one of her, I think, I believe it's 20 global leaders to play 20 million dollars of capital to organizations who are focusing on women's health. And I really focused in on the maternal, the black maternal health crisis that we're facing. And it's been incredible to support organizations, to support research who just launched a, a new research with USC Keck School of Medicine and looking at preeclampsia closer and some of the indicators and just really incredible work being done there. And so everything from grassroots to prevention to policy. And I'm really excited and energized by, you know, everything that's happening there. And I'm always very hopeful in the fact it's heartbreaking that I think the statistic is 80% of the deaths and complications that women of color face are preventable. And it's a staggering stat, but it also gives me so much hope that we can come and improve these outcomes. And so it's something I'm very focused on and excited about that work. So just to have a curiosity, how does that work? Do you get to deploy where that money goes to? Yeah. So it's your choice of where you want that money to go to invest in the research. Pacific research? Yeah, really for agency to do that. I have basically it was deployed to our foundation, the Felix Family Foundation, my family's foundation, to be able to do this work. And I spent about a year just learning the landscape. You know, I had been immersed in it, but I'm just really wanting to understand who is doing what and understand better. And then yeah, getting to go in and, you know, I have a team of support who helps me navigate all of that, but it's been incredible to be able to get this capital to places that not would not necessarily find it. You've also been an advocate because you've been on the president's council of fitness sports and nutrition. You've been a sports envoy for the Department of State, part of the International Olympic Committee. I'm already realizing you don't sleep, but we'll get to that later. But tell me about what you do in those roles as an advocate for, is that for fitness in general, for women, for maternal health care? Yeah, it's really, representing athletes. And so I'm in Paris, I was elected as a member of the International Olympic Committee. And so I really take that responsibility seriously to be able to understand what is happening with the organization of the Olympic Games, being able to represent athlete concerns. And because of that, I sit on the board of LA28 and I'm very involved in bringing the Olympics to my hometown. But yeah, I think what really is at the center of all of those things I get to represent is just saying, you know, I really want things, I want the athlete to be at the center and I want their voice to be heard. And it's my job to have a seat at the table to do that. You've also been an entrepreneur. You've created always alpha and sage, I think is how it's pronounced, which is a woman's athletic shoe. Tell us about some of those endeavors and how did those come about? Yeah, so my footwear company, Sage, came about really organically. So after I parted it with Nike, I was left without a footwear sponsor and I had searched for another and couldn't find it. And my brother, who is my longtime manager and business partner, suggested that we do this ourselves. And I think, you know, at that time, I think he was in big brother mode when he said it and he was like trying to solve this problem. But we did a deep dive into the industry and we learned that shoes were being made, women shoes were being made off the mold of a man's foot. And it kind of took us time to unpack that. But we're like, well, that's, that's wrong. You know, women should have shoes specifically, specifically for them. And we understand that our feet are actually different. You know, our bodies are different. And so it was just incredible to learn this and to start this company. And we make running shoes for women and get to show up and be really thoughtful in the way that we do it. And yeah, I love the business. It's, it's a tough one. But it always, you know, presents a new challenge. But I believe in the purpose. And tell me about the management company that you've created for, for women and, and how that's going. Yeah. So our, our latest venture is always alpha. It is a management firm representation for female athletes. And it's really exciting. We're only 18 months old. But we get to represent some of the most incredible female athletes in the world. Some of our athletes are Sloan Stevens, Nekka Bumake, Simone manual, just really inspiring women. And for me, it was also a legacy piece. You know, I felt like I learned so much in my career. And I wanted to be able to pour into, you know, someone else, the next generation and those who are in the middle of navigating, you know, all of this. And so it's been incredible. Women sports is really having, you know, such a boom and so much momentum and to be a part of that is, is really exciting. The business is growing rapidly. That's great. Well, congratulations on, on that. So now you're a mentor to the next generation of athletes, but you're, you know, you have been a leader in so many, in so many different areas. You've been a leader in sports and as an advocate and now as a, as a business owner, tell me what are some of the important leadership lessons that you have that have, that guide you in your leadership. I think one that really sticks out to me is being yourself. You know, I think for me, you know, when I thought previously about being a leader, I thought, you know, this kind of bold, loud, you know, leadership. And then understanding that for me, I'm, that's not, I don't fit into that box, but there is this quiet, you know, powerful, thoughtful leadership as well. And I really lean more into that. And so I think instead of trying to fit into a certain box, you know, being able to lead and use the characteristics that make you successful in, in yourself, really lean into those qualities. And then being able to listen, you know, I think great leaders really listen thoughtfully and are able to work with their teams, you know, it's been refreshing for me to, to be leading teams and to beyond teams and to be collaborative coming from, you know, the individual kind of sports world that I was in. I love to it. But it also, you know, it, it does test, you know, different skills that I have. But making sure that I'm, I'm listening to, you know, our different members of our teams. You know, it's interesting. I was thinking as you were talking, you're, you're right. As you said, you were in an individual sport. You were racing as an individual. But you're all supportive relay teams that require sort of their collaboration. What's their difference? I mean, as, as you're doing that, did you have a different approach? As, as you, you know, in those two different events? Absolutely. The, the relay was always an interesting dynamic because I don't know if everyone realizes, you know, your four teammates, you could have just competed with them like a couple days prior because, you know, the hundred meters, one person wins. Somebody may not even make the final. And then all of a sudden in a couple days, you're on a team together. And so you have to work with people who might be your fiercest competitors, who you may not like. I've been on all sorts of teams. But you come together for that common goal. And it's about putting ego aside. And I think that has been the greatest lesson, you know, in business as well to say, there's a lot of factors that go into, you know, life. And you come together with people, you know, to solve a problem or, you know, to work on something. And it really has prepared me to be able to navigate that. You were talking about before this idea that you have to find your own leadership. It's got to appeal to you, you know, sort of do you. And, you know, and listen to your team as you're trying to figure out problems. But in, in always alpha, you now have a next generation of female athletes who are looking to you for your guidance. And I'd be curious, what sort of guidance are you telling them? Are you giving them the same guidance to you? Do you change? How do you get the best out of these athletes that you're shaping for their sports? Yeah. I really try to challenge them and to push them. You know, I think things have historically been done one way for a long time. And I think what we're seeing today is athletes who do want to break that mold. And they want to do things differently. And so I support and encourage that. And also, you know, push them to find their passions outside of the sport. And to think about businesses they want to build and to think about things they want to put in the world and really take ownership in creating their brand. Because it's a new day. It's a different day. They can they can do so much while still competing. But also being able to to focus in on the work, you know, obviously, you still have to make the main thing the main thing and be excellent there as well. So helping them kind of juggle all those things. And anytime they want perspective or advice in any area, I'm happy to give it. But I do really encourage them to not sit back or get complacent. But really know that they this is there. You know, this is the prime time to go after everything they want. After this rare athlete that has had all this success in the sports arena and then jumped to other areas where you're an advocate, you're an entrepreneur. You know, I once had a mentor who was a very well respected investor. And he used to tell me that when he invested in companies, he looked for business athletes. So people that weren't business but had all of the characteristics of an athlete. And and I wonder whether you know, you think about that as as an athlete, there were lots of skills that you develop, sets of discipline. You think about everything that you learned as an athlete and apply that to the to the business world. What have you taken from from your days in the sports world? Absolutely. I mean, it's given me a great foundation. And you know, I have moments of imposter syndrome because it is, you know, I am going into industries that are completely different essentially. And I'm in rooms where, you know, it doesn't feel comfortable. And, you know, I'm kind of, yeah, don't always feel welcome. But I do go back to the things that made me great on the track and all of that skill set that I've had, the work ethic, you know, the dealing with defeat and the patience and navigating the storms. And I feel like all of those things are applicable. And yes, they might be called something different in the business world. But just because you, you know, move from one thing to another, it doesn't mean that you still can't apply those things. And it doesn't mean that you can't be successful. And so oftentimes I have to remind myself, you know, of those things and the things that I've learned when I was competing. Yeah. Is there is there an example where you either succeeded or were struggling in business and you sat there, and you said, you know, I remember when I was at this race and I had a terrible start, but I pushed myself in one. Are there cases in your mind where you've looked back and made those analogies? - Yeah, I remember when we launched, we launched our business. It was so exciting there. We, in the matter of like a day, we went through all of our pre-sales. It was just amazing. And then COVID and all of our factories shut down. We had no product. It was just, it was a nightmare. You know, you go from this extreme high then to this crashing low and trying to navigate this whole supply chain issue. And I just had to go back to time and time again on the track. You know, I've been, I've failed on the biggest stage. My second Olympics, I was the favorite. Everything, you know, pointed towards, I was supposed to do this. And then it all came crashing down. And I didn't win that race and, you know, it felt like such a failure and going to a dark place. And I just remember like picking up the pieces of that and leaning into my team and doing all the same things that I did in the moments, you know, that I needed to do in the moments and navigating that uncertainty of dealing, you know, with the business and the unknowns of what was to come. I leaned into it. It's like I've actually been here before, you know? And I was able to come out on the other side. And I think sometimes I have to remember that, you know, it's not unfamiliar territory. - Well, there's certainly nothing more humbling than failing on one of the largest stages in the world. So those are certainly a big lesson to learn from. You know, I wonder, you know, in the athletic world we talked about, you know, there were, you know, athletes to look up to, I've, have you reached out to people in the business world who have served as mentors or who have guided you and if you learned lessons from, you know, anybody as you've moved into these new worlds? - Absolutely. And it's been really refreshing because there have been a lot of incredible women who have helped me. Melody Hobson is one who has, you know, always picked up the phone, always, you know, Linter Ear, Torrey Birch is another one who has, you know, if I have a question, if I'm trying to navigate something has really supported myself and a lot of other female founders. And then I have, you know, a business mentor who's someone personal in my life. Her name is Mary Moore and, you know, we talk every single month. And as I made my transition, I just relied on her. And so I think it's really important when you're doing something new to be able to have someone in your life who's done it, you know, and you can, you respect them because there's a lot of noise and you know, you know, they're on your team. And this is someone I can value them giving me the critical, you know, advice. But I know it's coming from, you know, a great place. - Yeah, I think it's great to have this pure group who can provide you advice and guidance when you need it. And sometimes it may be just like, keep on going, you're doing the right thing. Has there been any advice that you've looked at that have really helped you? - I think one of the things that has really helped me is that many people have shared is just knowing who you're gonna listen to. I think, you know, when I, in founding these two companies, there's a lot of advice, you know, there's a lot of people who have an opinion on how it should go. And when you start to, you know, whether you're pitching and you're, you know, talking to people who maybe want to offer, you know, their point of view, it tends to take you all over the place, you know, when you start to listen to it. And so understanding that, you know, there's value there, but you have to dial in, you know, you can't take everyone's advice. And so kind of knowing, having some direction of, you know, of the voices that, you know, will be at the top has really been helpful in staying focused on what I'm trying to accomplish. - Right, yeah, I mean, I think that's right. You can get all the advice at the end of the day. You have to make the decision. You have to have your, you know, compass about where, where you wanna go. So clearly you've accomplished so much. You're not someone that's going to rest on your laurels. I mean, what is, you know, the Olympics are coming up in, in LA, I mean, what's, you know, what's on your horizon for the next few years? How do you see yourself spending your time? - Yeah, I mean, I'm really excited to continue to grow my companies. I'm so excited that the Olympics is coming to LA and excited to welcome the world at home. And so, you know, I think those things will keep me very busy. And then I have two little kids at home. And so I'm super excited to be present, you know, for them and their lives as they navigate this world. And yeah, all those passions of my heart in maternal health. - It's easy to define success when you're on the track and field, you know, there's a time, you're beating opponents. Now you're in these other endeavors as an advocate, isn't it? How do you define success now? - It's completely shifted, you know. Yes, it used to be so clear cut. Now I really look at it as, you know, impact, you know, is the work I'm doing, is it touching people? Is it making a difference? And of course, you know, I want my businesses to do well. I want all of those things. But for me, you know, true success is really saying, you know, am I leaving things better than when I came? - Have you? I mean, are there examples where you look at yourself? I'm really proud because I had an impact on this person's life or now this is being viewed differently. - Absolutely, I mean, when I look back some of the things I'm most proud of are things that have happened away from the track, you know, contributing to the change in the maternal protections for female athletes, creating a shoe that is specifically formed for women and being able to, you know, be instrumental in athletes, female athletes as they navigate their careers. Those are all things that are really purposeful and meaningful. And so it's not the same, you know, kind of external validation as before, but it's the quiet conversations that I'm having with people who are being touched by the work that I'm doing. And yeah, just the success looks a little bit different on this side. - Another area where I know you want to have impact and you will have impact is on your daughter. And, you know, as she gets older and you'll look to give her advice, what sort of advice do you want to, do you think in your mind you will give her at the right time and when she's ready? - I want her to be empowered. You know, I want her to think big and not to think about limitations and to do, you know, one day work that she cares about. I want her to think about character and integrity. And I also want her to think outside of the box, you know, and break outside of some of the way that things have always been done. And so, you know, right now we're early days navigating but giving her the tools to be able, you know, the world is harsh and, you know, I want her to have confidence to be able to step into it. - Yeah, you know, I read that when you wanted to speak out and you were nervous, you were cautious. And I think your brother said to you, you need to use your voice even if it shakes. I have to tell you, your voice is not shaking now. You are, you speak with great confidence but as you look back to when you made that decision, how do you feel? You must feel incredibly overjoyed that you took that step and even though you were nervous at the time, I mean, I think that's, that's changed your life, I would say. - Yeah, it has completely changed my life. I think back to that time of being so nervous and so scared, but I will say on the other side of that, there's this sense of freedom. And I think that that's what I found that, you know, yeah, you can do scary things and you'll be okay. And I've found that I can speak up on a number of different issues and that it's important to do so. I think it's a responsibility that I take on and I'm really grateful to have been able to evolve to that place. - Yeah, I think it's, I think it's amazing and it's been unbelievable to see you use your voice, to see you be so involved in maternal health care issues. No doubt we at US News are so proud that we were able to name you as a leader for 2025. I can't wait to watch all the additional things you're gonna continue to do. I know with you, when you take your first step, it's a fast step because you know how to run quickly, I'm so excited for what's to come for you. And I thank you for spending some time with me today. - Thank you for having me and it was a complete honor to be named as one of the US News leaders and it's something that's very humbling and I'm grateful for. Thank you for having me. - Well, great. Well, thank you so much. - Well, that's it for today's episode. But don't forget to follow us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a review or comment with your thoughts on our discussion. Nomination. are now open for the 2026 edition of "Best Leaders." Go to usnews.com/leaders to submit a leader for a consideration for the list that will be revealed later this year. And check out some of our recent conversations with Eric Topel, John Hope Bryant, Jayden McKenna, and Peter Hotez. And tune in next week for more insights on leadership. Until next time, thank you. [Music]