"Colman Domingo"

hey guys welcome to another fresh cold open oh on smartless was this a fresh one uh i'm happy to have you two here guest starring in really excited to be here and see you yeah yeah really incredible wanting to get you guys in a cold open for a while just like your pictures yeah so what what do you guys understand a cold open to be do you think it is as we just want to blast into and get into the show yeah i know i know what it is it's probably short you don't think it has anything to do with temperature or anything like that i think we're ready to go belabor it in the way that you are okay but anyway all right so you just want to get into the show then yeah i just want to say hey welcome to smartless oh okay welcome it's all new smart smart smart smart smart what we were talking about the other night at dinner you wanted to talk about your love for me and for sean and go ahead we're ready to listen no no there's two things yeah you want to talk about the gay chat line and you want to talk about yeah what was it called it was manhole i looked it up i looked it up it's i thought it was called manhole it was called pardon sir pardon pardon sir yeah that's like that's like you're on a crowded subway so sean tell me what you're talking about this story so you you know it's a crowded subway um pardon sir uh you your mom came to you one day how old you were like 17 maybe yeah 17 or 18 or somewhere like 17 19 and i would go downstairs to the phone in the basement and i would go i would call like a gay chat line like a party line like hey what's going on and sure and i didn't know that it was like i don't know back then it was like two bucks a minute or five bucks a minute i don't know some crazy kind of money right and i talk and talk and talk and my mom came to me with the bill she's like are you calling now it's called pardon sir or whatever it is what because she called it and found out that what it was and i was like oh i was so embarrassed i was like oh that's just a that's just a joke you weren't out you weren't out yeah no i was like that's just a joke we were just joking around isn't that funny what's funny about it there's nothing funny about it isn't that funny okay so that's pardon sir shawnee now what about this manhole yeah exactly totally and i was like my only comeback was at least i have two eyes no i didn't say that i didn't say and no but she was really she was really and then i was anyway who cares it was really embarrassing i care i care and the other day and then the other day like a week ago will will facetime me and while i was on my laptop facetiming with my phone rings and it's one of those people from another country that asked for told me like i had a racist what do you what are you talking about told me i had like a phone bank like like a scam yeah like i had a i don't know like an overdue bill or something they need my information and so will i put on speaker and will says i can see you i can see you god is in you god is in you and the guy's like oh and by the way the guy was undeterred he's like okay there's no problem well if you can see your thing yeah yeah i mean he these scammers jb i mean they don't they keep their eye on the prize but what was amazing i said so much gibberish to him what was the uh when you got the when you looked at your phone of the incoming call did it say unknown caller no it said the number and then the curiosity always wins i was like who is that always answering on guys like you you heard about the cat right you heard about the cat with the curiosity what happened yeah it ended up killing him it ended up killing him what about all the emails you got do you guys get a thousand emails a day that are that are just you know with a link you know like it looks like an apple bill or yeah always oh yeah it's always oh yeah your your amazon bill is just you know you click here and adjust it no and then your life's over if you click on that thing you're hacked you're i'm very good about just deleting anything that looks a little sideways are you are you bad at that shawnee i i do that too but i always make sure i i say something funny so they know it's me like if i forward it to um my tax guy or whatever i'll say like you know i'll do a joke so he knows i'm not forwarding did you say your tax evasion guy tax evasion guy you didn't say tax evasion guy why is he based in the caymans why is he in the um that's where he lives i just wanted to have a quick i said why is that um what i was saying that documentaries this is a new thing do you guys have there's so many what they call documentaries out now about people and then it feels like a lot of them are endorsed by the person and they're part of it yes yes yes and it half of them feel like just puff pieces yeah puff pieces like they're they're glazing themselves like it's to sell them and their brand is that does that feel accurate so i have people go like oh did you see the such and such documentary i'm like i don't know the term documentary is a bit of a stretch here feels like a feels like a real like a self-promotional real right yeah yeah that's interesting there are there are some of those yeah but uh but man the ones that aren't i'm such a documentary no the good there's so many good ones yeah of course speaking of films that i love i saw a film last night that is not a new film so i'm i'm late to this um as this is fun when he does this superman is this superman the film is called birth and it's it's directed oh my god jonathan glazer oh it's so good nicole kibben film good lord is this film good really when did it come out it's so uh 2004 something like that yeah oh i gotta see that it was the movie he did right after a sexy beast yeah i mean right i think it moves slowly but i love stuff like that my me is it good and i looked at it i looked it up online didn't make any money got terrible reviews and i'm like well i said well then my taste is in my ass like in other words like you know i mean i try to make stuff and like if i turned that in i would think oh my god you have just like here you know you're here comes the rest of your career pal nice nice work and then like you just get you know no money no no reviews no nothing like it doesn't do well at all like what are you supposed to do with with if you got taste like that i i guess i got i'm doing something wrong no i don't know there's no there's no rhyme or reason to it i don't think i i i think the rotten tomatoes thing is wild too now like something will get like 90 or 100 of rotten tomatoes and then i'll see it i'm like i don't think it's on like i don't think it's that great or vice versa but at least with that it's an aggregator so you're you're you're seeing a consensus and this film had a consensus fresh if it's over 60 percent so yeah but what i'm yeah but what i'm saying is the is the is the critics sometimes kind of get seduced by i agree i agree there were a couple of films in the last couple of years where everybody was like bandwagon like tv shows and films and they all jump on it and it's the water cool water cooler effect i think i did like a couple of my favorite critics though gave it gave it rave reviews like a guy in the new york times and the new yorker like they loved it and i guess it was just maybe just so many people reviewed it it brought it down or something i don't know but man is it good birth i think film reviews are pretty tough to yeah i don't know i know such a i know uh you know uh rotten tomatoes in in canada is called rotten tomatoes did you guys know that is that right um so so is that right eh so um speaking of uh speaking of critically acclaimed that's what our guest today they got it right he's accumulated 146 nominations 46 wins nominated for two academy awards for best actor baftas critics choices won an emmy got nominated for a bunch of other ones golden globes olivier awards uh screen actors guild award you name it he has an incredible list of uh screen and state and television and stage credits uh uh shawnee that you will you're going to get a lot of you're going to get a theater story out of this guy he is he's a playwright he's a performer you know him from uh birth of a nation you know him from he was incredible as uh joseph joe jackson in michael you know him from disclosure day you know from the four seasons guys it's colman this is crazy you guys i was just oh my god i was just watching you like on some oh i just watched michael again last night oh and i was like i would kill to meet colman i've never met and here you are this is crazy good to finally we passed each other at events and stuff like that but i've never been up because i get kind of weird and sean never stops and he never said he's never moving you guys he never stopped you're like i'm in seat 3a i gotta get to my seat yeah all right i'm such a huge huge fan i'm a fan of you i know me too me too it's such a thrill to have you here uh i i also just watched michael this summer and i was blown away by your performance oh thank you thank you guys so good thank you guys what i mean that talk about something that does well um i mean that was did incredibly well i mean people millions and millions of people watch that still today as you were talking about the rotten rotten tomatoes i was thinking that we got like panned with rotten tomatoes you know michael was yeah michael was panned with tomatoes yeah no no no way yet audiences because i don't know i feel like you know again i think people jumped on the bandwagon or they did they wanted a certain story about michael jackson and so they weren't able to look at the story and they didn't look at the story and they didn't look at the story and they didn't look at the story and they didn't look through the lens of what we were creating but through the lens of what we were creating but then the audiences swung the other way and the then the audiences swung the other way and the audience yeah didn't it did huge box office didn't it huge we made over a billion dollars yeah yeah no way it's the highest grossing biopic ever made and the highest grossing one for landscape yeah that's amazing and you guys said hey screw you critics we're gonna make a sequel dude exactly that's exactly you're like you know but also what's beautiful because i feel i'm listen all right this i just think that at some point i think i naturally maybe i just feel this way because i feel like criticism you know especially when it comes to the lens of like people they want something and you're not if you're not delivering that they're not able to see it through the lens but in audience i'd rather just follow someone's you know opinion of someone that i respect you know i mean somebody even on like on twitter or or ig or something like that oh great i'll go see it because these people liked it and they're talking about it in the comments i think that's the way it's going more and more right that that sort of social media um kind of crowdsourcing opinion i think is is driving a lot of box office yeah yeah i think it's i mean i don't want to be the guy who who uh you know takes apart critics just because he's been on the uh on the short end of of the bad reviews but we all we all have yeah but but but i i do think it's really difficult now when i watch sometimes i'll i'll see a review or whatever and then i'll look at the guy and be like i don't want to watch anything that this guy likes like he and i don't have a lot of time to think about it and i don't want to watch anything that this guy likes like he and i don't have the same and it kind of goes to what you say colman it's more about about aligning yourself with people who jason talk about birth right like you go into these things and you go well yeah there are certain people who aren't going to like it but those aren't the kind of people that you would want to go and do something creative with exactly yeah yeah do you read do you read uh all your stuff colman i don't read all of it i like sometimes i feel like i sort of like put myself in a little bubble for a minute but then at some point i want to sort of like pull back the blind and see see what people how they're responding to it you know but i really don't want to take over the what the feeling i had about making it you know i mean i'm not going to look at it the day after we premiere something and suddenly like you know yeah but it is sort of like it is it's i've always felt that since we we we we have a public job and we we our product is for the masses uh hopefully it it it does stand to reason that you would then look at what the public is saying about it how is it being received for the audience you are trying to please um i i guess um it's true it's true but you have to be careful what you get right because i remember um recently i i guess hosted uh jimmy kimmel and i never i never i never guess hosted a show like that so i wanted to know so i went behind the blinds of twitter and i went on there to just see how people were responding to it and it was overwhelmingly beautiful but then i got like fixated on this one chick who was like you know you're you're too you're doing too much you know just like calm down too much exuberance and i was like what do you mean so i'm sorry it doesn't matter her so but of course i turned it into part of the monologue the next day i was like you know because i'm human and i wanted to know like how people were responding to it you gotta right size it right i mean it's like one person's opinion it's not indicative of the whole thing and even if it is everybody's opinion it how did you feel about what you did and and and what size should that be in your calculus as to you know whether it was a positive experience or not yeah and also but also i feel like art is so subjective as well i feel like some people should fucking hate it some people if you're making some really good art hopefully you're hopefully some it's polarizing in some way and people are like i'm not sure about what you know people want like even let's say the michael jackson film i i wanted to make sure i gave some humanity to joe jackson and really made him a bit more complex than i think what anyone would want what assumed joe jackson to be and i thought that was my job but i feel like some people were like no i want more of the monster or like oh why did you do that so i'm like you know i can't please everybody all i can do is try right try to do my best and everybody you're doing something wrong dude i loved i loved your portrayal of joe jackson i thought it was so layered even in those moments where you thought he was going to blow up at michael then he kind of went like okay and it just kind of and i thought that was really cool it was really nuanced and but but getting to the the sorry i just wanted to go back to that idea if you think and it just occurs to me and it was not a new idea so forgive me and believe me i used to read the critics of this podcast early on and and uh i was reminded how uh unoriginal my ideas are but you know that the idea that back in the day when there used to be especially when we went through these great uh periods in show business in the sort of the 70s etc and tv and film where we had a lot of groundbreaking stuff and there was stuff that just we never heard of and went away a lot of those things were driven by art were driven by just trying to do the really cool interesting breakthrough you know groundbreaking material and it wasn't driven by uh marketing and look at box office and looking you would never have a robert altman film you'd never know you'd you'd never have any of those things and i think that's the thing that's the thing that's the thing that's the key to those films because you know now they look at and they go the first thing they do is if they're making films they go to their their sales department their marketing department they go can we sell this movie and then they go to the awards department exactly and then they go to the awards department as opposed to is this movie good is this something that that you know we like and people producers directors actors studio chiefs would take a chance on something because everybody agreed that this is something that could be why do you think why do you think right now that people are so i know it's all it's money but i don't think it's something that's going to be great but i feel like you can't have a parasite or like you know what was that everything everywhere all at once so like imagine reading that i it doesn't sound like that movie would make any money or scare the hell out of you if you're writing the check but it takes people to say we're going to take a chance on this because we believe in this good art and then it succeeds it is money it is money coleman i think that also a lot of these big companies that make the decisions that give that lend the money or give the money to to create these projects films tv whatever uh these companies are now big uh publicly traded companies that have to and their ceo and chairman have to answer to their shareholders right so they have a they're like hey i have a fiscal uh obligation to our shareholders and this doesn't meet that fit that criteria and and it's just straight business it doesn't it doesn't really necessarily work with art no yeah speaking of art speaking of selling something to the just real quickly uh willie i saw the behemoth trailer two days ago i think it was two days ago or one day ago see that it looks freaking great i mean and and you you actually are a big fan of the behemoth you're a big fan of the behemoth you're actually start the trailer and finish the trailer, and it's so exciting to see you up there. Oh, that's so cool. But that movie looks fantastic. Pedro Pascal, Tony Gilroy. Pedro's amazing in it. I'll just say, Pedro Pascal is amazing in it. God, he's the best. And Tony, you know, the great Tony Gilroy and Olivia Wilde and Eva Victor are some great people. That's a beautiful cast. I can't wait to see it. Coleman, can I just ask you a couple questions about Joe Jackson? I know you're so sick of talking about him. One question. Just one caller. No problem. Sean, sorry. Yes, Sean. Sorry, Coleman. We're really sorry about Sean. Okay, go ahead. I was just such a huge fan of Michael Jackson growing up, just massive fan. And what was it like? Like, did you talk to the family? What was the prep like, and were you petrified? Because he is such a well-known person. I wasn't petrified. He ran the family. You know, the moment I got the offer, I was like, let me see how he lives in me. And then I started to do some research. I'm like, I think I know who Joe Jackson was, but he just seemed like a typical villain because, you know, his eyebrows were up high and all that stuff. He had light blue eyes and crazy-looking, jerry-curl. And I was like, let me get beyond that and do some research. And I really looked at him as sort of, you know, I really looked at him just being a man who was born pre-civil rights and, you know, very modest and really had limited education, limited access, but he had these kids who have talent, and they really relied on him to, like, push them to become the best. And I thought, well, he gave everything he had. I mean, so let me look through the lens of a father. I'm not going to look at the lens that everyone else sees him as. How does Joe see himself? And then there was one interview that I thought was very interesting. There's one interview and Joe's sitting there and they're like, you know, Michael's talked about, you know, Michael's talked about, you know, his abuse and, you know, how he was, he was beat or what did he say? And he would vomit whenever you came into the room. And Joe Jackson literally sat back there with a little smile. He said, he said that? Really? Oh, okay. He said, well, I beat him, but I beat him all the way to the bank. And I was like, wow. And I thought that was interesting because he said, because, you know, child rearing was different back then. He was like, it was rigor, it was discipline. And I made sure you were the best you could be so you can get out of your circumstance. So for me, that's how I framed Joe Jackson. And then I went to some conversations with, the beautiful thing is Jafar Jackson, who's Jermaine Jackson's son, played Michael. So I had him as such a resource of like, hey, tell me, you know, how was your relationship with your grandpa? And he said, oh, Pop Pop. And there was so much love that, you know, whether he or I talked to Marlon Jackson, a few others. And they always said, they were like, oh, he's a complicated man. But, you know, he loved me and I love my dad. And so I wanted to lean into that about what the family, what's behind the closed doors. You know, I saw a video of Joe Jackson Day because there were Jehovah's Witnesses. So they didn't have, you know, birthdays or anything, but they had Joe Jackson Day. And it's just a simple video I saw with them sitting around, he and Catherine and the kids and the grandkids. And I'm like, oh, they're just a typical family like anybody else. And I'm sure they have problems like anybody else. And it's a big ass family. So, um, but they're the most successful family and there would be, honestly, there would be no Michael Jackson or Jackson clan if it wasn't for Joe Jackson. So I feel like I wanted to look at it through Joe's lens. So that's what I did. Yeah. Fascinating family. Um, Willie, start us at, start us at the top. Tell us about Coleman. Where did Coleman come from? Take us through your research, Will. So Coleman, if I'm, if I'm, you're, you're from West Philly. Yes. Born and raised. Is that right? Yeah. Born and raised. One of five kids, is that right? No, uh, four. Four kids? Yeah. Four kids. Sorry. One of four kids went off. Youngest? Uh, um, middle boy. I was the youngest for a long time. So they call it the knee baby. So I was like 12 years old before my younger brother was born. So I was the baby. Wait, wait, what's the knee baby? The knee baby is like you got one on the knee and then you're having another one. That's hilarious. I never heard that. And you had, you didn't come from a family of performers. Your parents weren't performers, nothing like that. But you had a, am I right in saying that you had a teacher who encouraged you to pursue acting? There was like a pivotal teacher in your life. Is that true? Yeah, I mean, it's probably hard for many people to believe this, but I was very shy. And I had a lot of, you know, whether I had a lisp, I was not cool. I was, you know, from, you know, lower middle class family. I was wearing my older brother and older sister's hand-me-down clothes. So by the time I go to college, I just wanted to be something else. So I started, I actually took an acting class as an elective. And because my mother said, take something to get you outside of yourself. You know, I know you, she knew me to be a bit more funnier and have a bit more personality, but I didn't show it outside. So I took this one class as teacher Chris. And it was just acting one-on-one at Temple University when I was studying journalism. Another career where I thought like, I was just going to be a newspaper writer and stay behind the scenes. You'd just be on your own and you'd be quiet. Yeah, just be in a dark room, exactly. And nobody bothered me. So, but then I took this class and he said, he pulled me aside one day and he said, hey, have you ever thought about acting as a profession? And I said, I don't even know what, I don't even know what you're talking about. Like, what is that? What is acting as a profession? You know? My, as the first kid in my family to go to college, I was supposed to go out and get a job and a job with benefits. You know what I mean? It was no, like, the idea of me being an artist didn't even make sense. So he said, he said, I'd be very curious if you did. Because he said, I think you have a gift. And I said, oh, he said, I think you have a gift and I'd be very curious if you pursued that gift. Oh, yeah. So it was like a mic drop. And I was like, and I didn't know until some friends of mine told me I'm at what, at Enneagram 8, which is the Challenger. You know, I like to be, I like a challenge. So that was like a challenge. Like, I'd be curious. And I'm like, I like that challenge. So I started taking, I started taking some theater classes off campus from Temple University because I didn't, I sort of kept it as my little secret. I would take acting classes, like breathing exercises and laying on the floor, filling myself up with orange juice and shit like that. All this wonderful stuff. And I love being in the theater. I was like, wow, this is what I want to do. I want to be in the theater. So I was a theater rat for most of my career, you know? And that was very fulfilling, you know, for- And you, yeah, and you were like, is it true that, I read somewhere that you, you were working in the theater, but you also had like other jobs going on. Oh yeah, I always had hustles, yeah. You talked about like taking your final bow and 15 minutes later you were serving drinks. Oh yeah, I worked at Manhattan Class Company in New York City, a beautiful off-Broadway theater. I literally would like, you know, bow in this, I did this show with John Randall called Bright Ideas. I'll never forget it. It was one of my first off-Broadway shows. And I took a bow, got up, and I had it timed. I would get up, rip off my costumes, which I'm sure cost thousands of dollars, you know, call a cab, get over to the 55 bar in the West Village, and suddenly within 15 minutes, because I was like, I can, I have to be late for my shift by 15 minutes because the show started at 7.30. We were done at like 8.59, got over there, next thing you know, I was like, hi, what can I get you? I literally walked in the door and went straight to the bar because I needed the hustle. I was, off-Broadway I was getting paid like $350, and then like I needed, you know, to live in New York. I was like, I had to have that job. Sure. We'll be right back. And now back to the show. What was the first, so then what was the first gig where you were able to give up that day job like that or that gap job of whether it was bartending or whatever? Do you remember? For a long time, when I tell you for a long time, because I think I was always afraid of, being broke, I always kept a bartending job. Even when I was on Broadway, I would still have like, oh, I'm no way. Dude, I was, I was on Broadway and passing strange and still like, you know, on a Monday night, I'm like, I'll pick up that shift because I was afraid it wasn't going to last. I was always, it was that rollercoaster. And you know, like, let me just ride this out. But it was for a long, I would say from like 20 years of my career, and I've been doing this now for what, 35, 36 years. And I think, I think I just stopped having a side job. I think. Yeah. But I, I mean, but like, but you, but you mentioned that passing strange. You're like, right after this podcast, I have to go back to that. I gotta, I gotta go pick up a shift, you guys. Like, I don't know if it's going to last. Right, right. But, but passing strange, it's funny you mentioned passing strange. That was filmed by Spike Lee. Am I right about that? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But literally when that show closed, I went back to bartending. That's amazing. Wow. My career was always these highs, has been these highs and lows where I was always doing these shows that were, in my theater career, I was doing these shows that had no intention of going to Broadway. Like I did, show me now, I did a show called Scottsboro Boys at the Vineyard Theater with Susan Stroman. Yeah. The final collaboration between Kander and Ev. That started out, you know, we went to off-Broadway at the Vineyard Theater, then went to the Guthrie. It really is these really weird pieces of theater that somehow end up in the commercial space. So then I kept, really, I was just going to be an avant-garde actor and then like get a rent stabilized apartment and that was fine for me. And then my career started to do other things. But you were doing it and you're going all over the place. You were in Australia, you were in the UK, like you were really, really doing it in the theater. Yeah, and also, I mean, that's the thing too, because I've always been a multi-hyphenate. I've always been a writer, a playwright. I write musicals, I write plays, I direct. Didn't you write, didn't you write. I wrote, I co-wrote the Donna Summer musical. The Donna Summer musical. Yeah, I co-wrote the Donna Summer musical on Broadway. Yeah, that's crazy. I co-wrote a show about Nat King Cole that was at the New York Theater Workshop last year. So it's like, people always know that, even still, you can knock on my. my trailer door and people are like, what are you doing? I'm like, oh, writing a play or a screenplay. It's just like. Wow, amazing. I feel like those are my hobbies. Jason, you know what Jason's doing? He's watching TV. What's Jason doing? Jason, what are you doing? He's watching TV. No, my brain, I was telling that, no, that's too, that's a shitty question. No, that's a shitty question. But, so I'm just going to ask. Ask the shittiest question, though. I know. Start there, let's lean in. I'm just so taken with your talent, Coleman. I always have been. Me too. And that's why I was so curious as to how. how it got started in you. You know, like, and I'm always interested in this, because, like, I started before I even knew who I was. I started when I was such a young kid. Like, this whole notion of pretending to be somebody different was, like, a different thing for me. And to hear that you started at such an older age, when you knew who you were, what is it about acting that you really like? I mean, can you. Can you tap into, like. Where you go when you pretend to be somebody else? Is it about exploring different sides of yourself and people just get to watch that? Or are you conscious of the audience that is. that is receiving this show and you're performing for them? Does that make sense? Yeah. By the way, that's a really good question. That's a great question. Thanks, man. It's not a shitty question at all. Yeah. It's not shitty at all. You know what, to try to answer that. Mine's going to be, do you have any funny theater stories? We know, we know, Sean, we know. Anything with. I'm going to hold that up. Anything with Tyne Daly, Coleman? Anything? Oh, my God, I'd give anything for a Tyne Daly story. Sean was waiting for that question. But, you know, I think that, honestly, I feel like. Listen, and I don't want to get too sort of erudite about it, but I do think that acting is a bit of a service job. It is. But yet, it's incredibly wonderful to feel like. I'm very curious about other people. And I think it's also going back to my journalistic roots of, like, me wanting to be a journalist. I'm like, I want to find out why people do what they do. And if I can actually now embody it and become that person and do research. Like, I've played horrible people. And, you know, I'm sure we all have. I've played Missed in the Color Purple or, you know, a pimp in Zola. Somebody who sex traffics women. I'm like, that's totally the opposite of me. I'm being such a feminist. But for me, if I find something in them, and I'm like, I want to find their humanity in there. Right. And it almost makes you feel closer to people, I guess, maybe. It makes me feel like. Yeah. I'll be very honest. I feel like, you know, I feel like there's nothing that. You know, I'm not somebody who truly believes in cancel culture because I always feel like there's a path. And if we look into the humanity and we really find our commonalities in some way, I feel like it's something about trying to become more human and kinder. And I think. I mean, also, like, when you play, like, dark characters like that or, like, villains or whatever you want to call them, you know, they don't think they're villains or horrible people. No, not at all. So as long as you're honest. They feel justified. Absolutely. Yeah, and it's really interesting finding that part of the character that showed to the audience that, oh, my God, look at that look in their eyes. They think they're not doing anything wrong. Absolutely. Like, that's a fascinating discovery of the audience. Isn't it? I feel like I don't. I like to lean into people who are so different than my own experience. And I feel like that brings me some joy in some way. If I can tap into that, I think that's a win. Well, there's. You're talking about, like. You're also talking about nuance, too. Like, it's sort of like a joy of nuance. There's such a loss of nuance now. You know, I don't think that people. And that's kind of the beauty of life, is, right? It's like, what are the things that make us different? Like, what are. Why are. You could, like, as you said with Joe Jacks, like, you could look at him in a binary way. You could go, he did X, Y, and Z, and then he was. But no, but why? There was a thing. And he had a reason. In his mind, he believed it. And that's kind of interesting. Exactly. You don't have to agree with it, but it's interesting. Because I love all the questions around it, because I feel like, I think. Listen, I can say it to you guys. I respect you guys so much, and I've seen all of your work. And I feel like part of this work that I love so much is the research and the detailing and finding the nuances. And finding out what makes them tick and where they live in your body, you know, where they live in your soul in some way, shape or form. I think that's, it's incredibly selfish in a way, too. I feel like that's for me. I want to unpack all that good stuff, you know. The difference between your process and doing a character on stage over a period of months versus doing a film or a series or something like that where you're doing that one scene that day and you'll never do it again affects sort of your ability to kind of like dig down and play different parts of that character. Do you enjoy the theater process more just because you get more time with that character in those situations? You know what's interesting to me? Yeah. I like the idea, because I'm still such a theater actor, that like the moment I'm cast, I go into research and development. Really. I'm saying, Sean, you'd probably agree with this, too. Like literally, I can take myself through a 40-hour rehearsal week for myself before I get to set. You know, if I know the work that I have to get done, I'm like, let me get into the gym and work this stuff out, put on my headphones, whatever. So when I'm on set, I'm loose. I can go anywhere with it. You know, for me, that's what I enjoy. I don't like showing up and just like, oh, like thinking that this is going to be the moment. I'm like, no, I've already. I've played it. Do you memorize the whole thing before day one? I memorize at least 90%. Yeah. And for me, that's a trick for me to feel like it's always still very new. But also, I'm a person like, even when we go to set to rehearse a scene, I have the script in my hand. People who don't have the script in their hand, I'm like, I feel like I need it to still feel like it's. It makes me nervous when they don't have their script. It makes me nervous. Because it feels like they already have a way they're going to do it. And for me, I'm still trying to figure this shit out. I don't know. What Sean or Jason or Will's going to say or do. I don't know what. I don't know how I'm going to do it until I see what you're doing. Dude, exactly. I'm going to respond. But I've done my work. So I've been in the gym working it out. So now it can be available. And so for me, that's what feels good. And I like the idea of not being. It's funny. I had to talk about this with a colleague of mine a couple weeks ago. I think work should be imperfect. I strive for the imperfections in my work. And so I feel like that. Maybe that's why I feel like when I go to set and I think. The thing that annoys me the most is when you're walking through the scene. And then suddenly the script supervisor, she's like, oh, you know, the line is. It's fine. I'm going to fuck up the lines for the next three takes. But I'm going to get there. It's going to be different on the next take too. I'm going to get there because I have an esteem for my work. But I feel like I need to be raw and loose. And I'm trying to figure out how this prop works or whatever. So my brain is going all over the place. So you said perfection in your work. Does that spill over in your personal life? Oh, yeah. Imperfection. Yes. Absolutely. But also, it was funny because I think, listen, I literally, I don't know. Why am I telling you guys this? But I guess. It's just us. You made me. We're going to record in a minute. But, you know, it's funny because I think that I realized that I had something dental possibly happen to my teeth. Because I was wearing some fake fronts when I played by Rustin and Rustin. And I think it sort of like made my tooth a little go in. And every time I see it now, because I'm like, I don't remember that. Has it gotten like that now? What the fuck? So I look in movies and TV and I'm like, what the fuck is going on with my tooth? And now I'm just like, but then I'm also just like, maybe that's all right. I'm like, it should have gotten fixed. But then I'm like, no, it's okay. My face is supposed to change, I think. Right. You know what's cool? It's so funny you say that. I went to my dentist a couple of years ago and he goes, you know what? Your bottom tooth is kind of in a little bit and I'm going to get you in the Invisalign. And I kind of like let him, I was in the chair. I'm just doing a cleaning. And I was like, okay. And I said, yeah. And they did the thing. And I got the Invisalign. A couple of days. And then I realized, and then I go, I call him up. I go, I'm done. I'm not doing it. He goes, well, you're going to fit. And I go, I don't care. I'm not a tooth model. Yeah, right. I don't give a shit. Yeah. And maybe that's the thing too, because I think everybody feels that everyone should be perfect. And I feel like, maybe that's, you know, I feel like I, maybe I want to have one of those really old, craggy British faces, you know? Me too. Yeah. Exactly. Lots of lines in my face. Jason, no comment. No, I always, I always say it's like, it's a privilege to get older. Like you want to be the most wrinkled person in the world because that means you've lived a long time. The only way to avoid getting older is to die. So anyone complaining about getting old, it's like, I mean, talk about a binary choice. You're either getting older or you die. Like, which do you want? Right, right, right. And we can get older in the best way. We could take care of ourselves and what we have and all that shit. But I feel like the idea of vanity, I feel like I don't want to have the vanity that like, I don't know. It's outside of me. Distracting. Yeah, exactly. I look at myself, I'm like, I look not too bad for 56. I'm doing all right, you know? There you go. Yeah, same. That's how I, I'm 56 as well. Don't you feel? Yeah. And I, you know what I realized the other day? I was like, I've got these, these are laugh lines. This means that I laugh a lot. Yeah. Man, am I lucky. I like get to live my life laughing a lot. Jason, Jason, Jason. Jason's looking, looking at plastic surgery for you right now, as we speak. No, but, but just like a night, light laser. I just did a light laser. Just a light laser. Just skip that. Right, a real light. Hey, you know, Coleman, I wanted to ask you about, it's funny. So you did all this stuff. I mean, you've done so many, your credits are insane. And, and, you know, all this theater and film and television. And then there was that period you did, you did Selma and you did The Butler. And I read somewhere that you said after that, that for a minute, you felt like there wasn't as much work coming your way in film and TV that you wanted. And you almost thought of like giving up on film and TV. Is that true? Yeah. And then, right, and then you went right into The Fear of the Walking Dead. Is that right about that timeline? Well, the wild thing is I was booking a lot of these sort of like, you know, small roles in big films, like whether with Steven Spielberg or Lee Daniels or Ava DuVernay or Steven Soderbergh, you name it. Right. But they were looking at me from like being a theater actor in New York. I was booking this stuff when it like, I would go in and sign in, you know, to go and sign in. And like, I had like the most boutique agent that no one ever knew about up against CAA and WME and all that stuff. And so I felt like. I was rare. I was getting in there because of my theater work. And so I would go and get these smaller roles and everything. And it was fulfilling enough. But then after I was, when I was entering my mid-40s, I was about 44 years old. And I went to London on the West End and did Scottsboro Boys. Came back and I was getting these auditions like, you know, under five. And I was like, this doesn't make any sense. And I was like living in Manhattan Plaza in New York City, you know, rent stabilized apartment. Oh, classic. And I was like, you know, I was making it as an artist. But I just felt like, man, I think, you know, I have friends who are doctors and lawyers and they have 401ks and shit. And I was like, I'm still living like a teenager. I'm like, maybe I need to do something else. And then I had a succession of auditions that felt like they were going nowhere. And they were breaking me, breaking me, breaking me. And then, of course, that was back when they had a pilot season. So, of course, there's months where they say, you're not supposed to go anywhere. I would just defy that shit. I'm like, I'm going to go fucking Australia and do my solo show. Fuck that. So I would go into these meetings. So I was doing a lot of work. I was getting some minimal traction. And then I just tried to make a stronger decision. But this decision was because after some heartbreak, too. I think I was just, I felt, after a while, I started getting disrespected from the auditions that I was, the things that I was being offered or being part of or not be a part of. And I was like, I just want to get off of it. And I feel like I just wanted to stop before I was brokenhearted about the thing that I love the most. And you would have gone just primarily, exclusively to theater. No, I was actually going to leave the industry, period. You were? Okay, what were you going to do? I had a side hustle as a headshot photographer. Really? Come on. I was making money. I was doing everybody's headshots. Wait a second. Are people still getting headshots taken? No, this was back, maybe. I don't know. Probably not the three, probably not the four of us. Exactly. But yeah, yeah, dude, I would do headshots. Like, and like, I would make like 300 bucks here, 300 bucks here. I was doing everybody's headshots in New York. Wait, so you'd show up with your camera? You'd show up with your camera and a tripod and a roll of Seamless? Yeah, absolutely. Or they would come with you? They would come with me. Or they'd come with Seamless. The backdrop. The backdrop. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, dude, no, I would set it up in my apartment. And people would come over and I would do their headshots. Oh, my God, I fucking love it. Dude, and so I was going to have a- And you were going to rock that. I was going to have a headshot business and just like stay with that because it was lucrative. I felt artistically fulfilled. It's a great way to meet people. Yeah, and also I felt like, again, I didn't want to be so downhearted about this industry because I loved it so much. I was ready to leave it. So glad we didn't lose you. Oh, thanks. But then, like you're saying, but then I had to do some strategic things. Like as I was leaving this industry, one of my dearest friends, Daniel Breaker, he said, hey, you know, my manager's been wanting to meet with you for a long time. And I was like, nah, I'm good. I just let go of my manager. I'm letting go of my agent next week. He said, just meet with him. And I went in there and I was not my most effervescent self. I really sat there, arms folded, and just like, they were like, oh, so tell us about your moment. This is what I do. I do this, this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it was a bad, bad meeting for me. And they were like, well, we'd love to take you on. I said, all right, let's see. Let's see if we can give it six months and see what happens. And literally, they said, first thing we have to do, we have to change your agent. And so I was, my literary agent was at Gersh and then eventually they moved me over to Gersh. And I went for my first couple auditions because I knew, this is what I knew. I knew that my auditions weren't being seen. I knew I, I really knew how to do a good self-tape, but I had no access or agency. So literally within a month, I booked Fear the Walking Dead and Baz Luhrmann's The Get Down. So two series leads. I had to choose. I had to make a Sophie's Choice. And I chose the thing that was the weirdest thing because that's me. I chose Fear the Walking Dead. I'm like, what is it? that I didn't know about the walking dead or anything but um yeah I was like I feel like I want to go on that road to figure out this character the character was written he was written like you know Richard III his first monologue and I was like oh this is interesting and then I went on to do that show for eight seasons I was the longest running character on there and directing too JC oh then I directed and produced it yeah the new the new agent pushed those auditions through and got them oh yeah because also this new agent um her name was Elizabeth Wiedersheim and she she said uh I have an audition for you for something it's a walking dead franchise I was like I don't even know what that is again I was a bit more a bit a bit of a snob to be honest when it comes to television work because I didn't think at the time they were writing at least for this face very complex roles you know for it so I usually I mean my experience with television up to then was being you know auditioning for every episode of like Nash Bridges or something playing a character called two cool whip Tyrell um you know what I mean so I just like I gave up on that I'm like no they're not writing for me I think I can do better work in the theater you know right I get it so then you started directing fear of the walking dead yeah is that what you said I started directing yeah that's amazing but listen I'm but listen you know why because I'm someone like because I think maybe it's the way I was built it's like I walk into a room I can't just be an actor I've got to figure out how we're doing this whole thing how are we making it right and so I that came from Gail Ann Hurd she came and saw on a hiatus I was directing a production of Robert O'Hara Barbecue at the Geffen Playhouse and I invited my executive producer Gail Ann Hurd to come and see it she says have you ever thought about directing TV and I was like no not really she says I think you again someone else says it to me yeah I think you may have a skill set for that and so I said I was curious about it so I started shadowing on my own show for the next year and then they gave me my first episodes to direct and how did you like it was it comfortable I loved it I think you love it too don't you because you're you're a beautiful director man I love it so much how would you did you so you'd been directing the theater but now you've got now you got a camera yeah um and now you have to guide the audience's perspective and all that stuff and lenses and lighting and all that stuff was that did you have a good partner uh I did at first cinematically or cinematically did like Andrew Bernstein who's a beautiful television oh my god I love Andrew isn't Andrew wonderful he really was he really was my mentor in many ways and really just like isn't he a sweet man he's a sweetheart and so talented yeah he's a sweetheart and so talented and he's a sweetheart and so I was just working with these guys who are like willing to give me any amount of information and talk about lenses talk about lighting talk about you name it how to tell the story how to prep sure and I just like I just soaked it all in man and then it just felt right and natural but also what I love about maybe this is what I love because I direct on my show now I'm feeling on four seasons what I love is being sort of the cheerleader for all these smart people yeah and coming up with a vision and saying we're going to get behind this I like the idea of trying to make a day I love being up again you're back against the wall you know what I mean but I love the enthusiasm and the encouragement to make something happen you know have you ever wanted to develop or create something for yourself or have you and I just don't know I have I have I've been yes and it's funny we're developing something now for Netflix a show called um Headlands House and so that that's for me and some okay good are you going to direct that too I probably it's funny I they they asked me about that but I feel like it's it's a central character and I feel like I like the idea of sometimes laying back and I feel like I like the idea of letting another creative come in here I don't want to do everything at times you know right unless I really feel I didn't really it's a I don't know Jason he doesn't feel the need to control but what would you sorry Coleman he just has to control it but what would you say about about directing yourself do you find it complicated or do you find the opposite do you find that it's efficient in that that actor's kind of reading your mind it's efficient yeah it's and I also know how to I feel like you probably know this as well too I feel like because I feel okay with also you know I will have my handheld monitor take a look at that I can judge my own performance but also I don't mind listening to my EPs and just like anything else you need and the writers whatever so I'm collaborative in that way and so I know and I know how to if something that even happened in the scene I could be fully present in the scene and then suddenly okay and then you're gonna do a pickup and like hey try this here blah blah blah whatever I'm gonna do this boom and then we go again you know yeah no you're I love it yeah you know but don't you do the same thing Jason how do you feel like I can't I cannot get enough of it yeah it's just it's a hot I don't know I mean yeah but like thank God you know that that you know let's speak for the four of us here that we're at a point in our in our careers uh thank God that um our our ambition is matched with our access you know that you know you're speaking earlier about you know all the talented friends that you have and and maybe or without access like like you were at one point my heart breaks for those people there's so many people that are incredibly talented far more talented than some that are that are enjoying success that just simply can't get in the door they can't get their tape scene right well think about it yeah think about Coleman how long you he you just described how long it took you were in your 40s you were doing you built all this I was thinking about you built this incredible career you have this incredible CV of all these different roles and in various things in film and TV and stage and then you do Euphoria and for whatever reason because that show is is just such a part of the family part of the fabric right now that show is so popular and it feels like that was the show was like kind of you're coming out to a broader audience and everybody's like Coleman Domingo is amazing and you win the Emmy and all this sort of stuff and you're like hey man I've been building this for 25 years exactly right a little bit overnight success yeah it kind of feels that way but also it took like for me it took people like Sam Levinson and I wonder if you guys agree here it took someone who wrote he wrote the triple-Axle for me he wrote something where he thought yeah oh Coleman can deliver this not something that like oh like he wrote it for me which is beautiful so he he knew the things I could do and he also knew the things that probably scared me and I wondered if I could do but he gave but he believes in me so which that that's what feels good and I feel like the things that I started to get more recognition for I've really been under the hood with whether it's um the film Rustin or something like that where I've I've actually been able to do the thing that I knew that I do I do best I've always I would always say this and I wonder if you guys agree for yourselves because you're all multi-hyphenates I never thought that like I'm I'm not that great to just be the actor that's hired to just like come hit the marks and leave I'm like I want to know how are we making it you want to contribute yeah I want to contribute how are we making this oh exactly I'm gonna I show up to you know sometimes I'll show up to set and just I want to see how things are I want to watch how we're doing that scene I want to know how the engine my engine will work with that as well but also I'm just curious about the whole process you know yeah which makes you a better Soldier yeah right I mean if you know what's going on in all the departments yeah you can figure out how to maybe fill in the margins a little bit when when appropriate absolutely absolutely that feels good we'll be right back and back to the show it's not you know you're saying before you you spent so long living like a teenager when um when did you how did you were you comfortable with the integration of a different a different rhythm of life both both in in time and also in in luxury and in travel and in um and and and and and privacy and and all those things how is how is success um uh wearing on you that's a great question and I think even in the last few years I've had to make some new agreements in a way yeah one was even when where I live now I live in this gated community in Malibu and I didn't know I needed it I I went to um actually Denzel Washington's house he was renting a house up in Malibu and it was after I was nominated for Rustin and he said uh he said hey so and we were hanging out for like three hours and he says um I said well I got to get back to I was living in Downey um this little suburban town yeah and lovely yeah exactly Southeast LA and I loved it and I lived there for like eight years well I've been on shows and stuff like that yeah and I said uh oh I'm heading back home he said where do you live I said I live in Downey he said what's that I said oh it's a little Southeast suburb he's like hmm you've been there for a while I said yeah he said you have gate I was like yeah gate he says uh you know you're gonna have to move right and I said why and he said you'll notice that things change and you'll need you'll need a little less access and you have to figure you have to navigate that for yourself how you have access and he was right because things start to change where I realized I needed more privacy to me and to just and for me where I live now is I really just like I really just get to be and just be a person and not be that's not not being an actor or anything like like the the question that I I that I still navigate when whenever I see somebody on the world hey what are you up to I'm like oh I'm just going for a walk here but they want to know your CV what you're up to I'm like nah that's actually not me all day long you know what I mean and I feel like it it is I've learned because I think because it's happened later for me um first of all I'm extremely grateful and I'm so happy that when people see me I know I get something that a lot of people don't people want to hug me all the time they people want to oh my God could I have a hug I've never and really and my colleagues are like wow people want to hug you whatever that is that I give off I feel like I'm very grateful for that that people want to connect like that but also you're not an no no no no no you know I try every day to be a good person you know what I mean like yeah and your characters you've done it you've had like a such a run of it like enormously emotionally demanding performances that you've delivered like just with aplomb and yeah And I think that that probably translates. I think that that probably speaks to, and I'm asking more, are these the kind of things that you look for now? Because it seems to me, talking to you, that you're a person who is looking for that kind of emotional connection constantly. I am. I think maybe that all makes sense to me. I feel like I can even, you know, we start getting to these ages where sometimes you get like sort of a retrospective of your work that you're supposed to talk about. And you're like, oh my God, I can now see the thread that I'm interested in being deeply human and being connecting with other people. And I feel like that's in everything that I do. I feel like the blessing is I was able to, now doing the show Four Seasons, that makes me feel like there's a bit more of a lighthearted humor and I don't have to sort of carry the weight because I know that I'm sure we all, we go deep when we go like into a deeper expression of human pain or anxiety. And I feel like I'd been doing that for so long. I said, I need to just wear a cute, cute sweater and give witty banter. Yeah. I mean, you've got, but then you've got, you've got Tina Fey. You've got Tina Fey. I've got Tina. It's awful, but Tina Fey. Isn't she horrible? She's horrible. Tina Fey. She's not smart and talented and funny at all. Steve Carell. And Will Forge. Don't even. All these people are just. What about that original Four Seasons? The film is one of my favorite, favorite movies of all time. Okay, you and I, okay, you, me, you, all of us, Tina Fey, we were like, what, 10 watching that movie? Why were we watching that movie when we were that age? Because I think cable had just kind of gotten started and it was one of those films that was in a prison rotation. Uh-huh. Yeah. And I just, and then all the, you know, the Vivaldi all the way through it, obviously. I was just like mesmerized. But we were kids watching, I guess watching a show about like our parents or something? There's a lot of those, like Ordinary People we watched. Yeah, I watched that all the time. Yeah, Alan Alda and Jack, it was Jack Weston, right? Jack Weston, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, and I just love that movie. Rita Moreno. Wait, you guys, Coleman. Go ahead, Sean, I was going to say go ahead, but do you mind if I just ask this? Please. It occurs to me as you sort of talk about this and being of a certain age, we're all of a certain age here in our mid to late 50s, shall we say, all of us could play late 40s, by the way. Oh, without a doubt. That's max. Without a doubt. I'd go 30. With good lighting. With good lighting? You see, I was adjusting this. With a bounce? In the beginning, I was adjusting this like crazy. I was like, let me get this. With a bounce? With a bounce? With a bounce? With a bounce card under here, you know? And I might have Jason, you might have to Hollywood it underneath the frame for me. Oh, yeah, you just fly it in there, sure. But, yes, but is there anything like in your life, like I've been going through this thing being now, being 56. There's so many just kind of things that I've laid down that I've just stopped, that I've sort of like, it's taken me a long time to kind of get there. Yeah. And I was wondering, have you guys been noticing that, that you're just like, you know, letting go of things? I don't let go anymore. Yes. Yeah, for sure. Like, I'm way less judgmental than I was two years ago. I'll go for it. Way less judgmental than I was two years ago. And I see it so much, and I'll be in a conversation with somebody, I'll go, does it need to be said? Does it need to be said right now? Does it need to be said by me? Like, I just kind of let it go. Yeah. Because you don't have to comment on everything either. You're just like, okay, cool. Is that the way you feel? Yeah. Cool, great. Do you guys feel that way? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do find, Willie, building on yours, I found that I'm trying to, be less judgmental in a way of just, it's sort of a lazy crutch for conversation. You know, like, I rarely, I'm rarely sincere about my judgment, and it's more about like, oh, well, let's just bond, kind of like fucking dragging this person and talking shit about this film, or this, like, for some reason, criticism kind of became kind of this- A great uniter, yeah. Yeah, or gossip, like gossip. Yeah, exactly. That's interesting. Another term for it, exactly. Just- Just as like, well, it's, you feel like you're getting closer with that other person, or you're signaling to that other person, hey, we, it's just between you and me, or we're getting closer, and it's kind of a, you know, it's lazy, to be honest, so yeah. And you feel shitty. Yeah, yeah. When you don't even believe it, and you're not, you don't mean it, it's just like, well, instead of coming up with something that could bond you, that's a little bit more positive on a different subject, I'm now reaching for that. Let me tell you guys something. About a few years ago, I was walking, I was walking around with this older woman, and she said, well, how old are you? I said, I'm, at that time, I was like 52 or something. She says, oh, okay, you were in your storytelling season. I said, what's next? She says, right now, you're, it's important for you to tell a story, tell a story about yourself. That lasts until your 50s. And so when you hit your mid-50s to early 60s, you move into your truth-telling season. I was like, what's that? She says, if you don't want to do something, you just say no. I said, wait, just no? She said, I said, no qualifier? She says, you just say no, because you're not responsible for the way other people feel. That's how people feel about something. I love that. Isn't that dope? For sure. So I sort of jettisoned right to that season. I was like, I'm going to move right there. That feels good. I've told enough stories. I'd like to get into the truth-telling. Exactly. Yeah, no is a fine answer as long as you say it in a kind way. Yeah, exactly. Just take a second to just message it the right way, and then it gets received the way you intended. Yeah, you know, I quit, like, I've kind of, if people come over for dinner, like I have friends that I haven't seen, like people in the business room, and they have a dinner at my house, I used to be like, oh, shoot, how do you get them out of your house? Because it's different than going to a restaurant. Because in a restaurant, the check is the end of the night. But when they come over, they could be there for five hours. They could be there an hour. Like, you don't know. What do you do now? So now I'm at the age, I just go, guys, I'm going to bed. Thank you. I mean, that's it. I've literally watched people. I've got to go to bed. You guys know Chris Hardwick? I've been to his, literally, I've watched him one day. We were sitting around outside. It was wonderful and lovely. He goes up, he comes down like in pajamas. That's what I do. He starts turning the lights on. How's my move? You do that, Jason. My move is to go upstairs and change and come back down. Turn on the lights. Like, what? Like, what? Sean, you'd love, by the way, Coleman, I always say that Sean, he always wants to be only in the place that he's not in now. He always wants to be somewhere else. But I will say this, Sean, I found this restaurant I have a lot of anxiety. On Long Island with the kids. Sure, anxiety. And I went to this restaurant, I found it, and they had on the table a QR code. So you could eat your dinner and then they were like, oh, and I hit the QR code and you can just self-check out, do the tip, do everything right there. You don't have to have the waiter come over. That's the best. And it became my favorite place to go this summer because I'd go with the kids, we'd eat and I'd be like, boom, we're out. That's fantastic. I like that. No more nice of ease. No more asking for the check. Nowhere waiting. Then they go, they bring it back and the thing. They need that in Europe, for real. They need that in Europe because you can never get a check. I know. You're exactly right. When I was in London last year, I'm like, how many trips back and forth are we doing until I pay the thing? It's endless. Wait, Coleman, do you have any horrible, gone wrong theater stories? Yeah, we need one before we let you go. Just like one, like something where like the set collapsed or somebody vomited or somebody passed or anything like that. A real funny one. A hilarious one. Somebody had a stroke in the middle of a scene. No, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, well, no. That's okay. How about going up on a roller coaster? Going up on a line? No, buddy. I won't say this, but I had, okay, in London, listen, people do things a little differently on stage. Like they will go in between shows. If you're an old school actor, you'll go to the pub and come back completely pissed doing the show. And I look at my fellow actor, I'm like, his face is beet red. I'm like, this dude is drunk. You can smell it. Yeah, and he would go up on his lines. My lines were always after his. I'm like, this motherfucker. I was constantly trying to save him the scene. I'm like, oh my God, but really, but it was okay with him because he's a legendary actor and he just was a little drunk. But they're like, wow. But they're like, yeah, what are you going to do? But they were all cool about it. They're like, he went to the pub. I'm like, wait, that's not the thing. Did I hear you say you've got a one-man show that you do sometimes? Do you ever fear going up on your lines when you got no one out there to help you? Oh, I did go up on my lines. I went up on my lines at the Vineyard Theater and it devastated me. But I went up twice because I went up on the same thing. I had to restart the show and then I went up again. But I realized, okay, this is not to bring the mood down. I realized it was the anniversary of my parents passing and the show that I was doing was all about my family. And then I thought, I was performing the show beautifully, but suddenly something clicked and was like, oh no, you have to feel the show. And I kept going up and then I was racing through the show to get to the end. I was like, because I was on adrenaline. I'm like, I can't go up on lines. So I was performing probably like a fucking maniac for like 90 minutes. I left that show and I was just like, oh my God, oh my God, I felt like crazy because I'd never gone up on a show. But then I realized in my own psychotherapy that I was like, oh, I'm not actually dealing with this event that I don't have my parents anymore. Yeah, right. And the next night you were okay? Yeah, and the next night I was okay. But to be honest, there was a breakthrough because I realized, and the beautiful thing is sometimes you have these breakthroughs as we do as performers. You're like, oh, I was performing it. I wasn't really living it. So now I have to live it. And that was the joy because suddenly I had a breakthrough. And it changed me as a performer as well. It was like, okay. You'll have a better chance of remembering all your lines if you're living it as opposed to performing it? Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. Yeah, because you have no choice because everything makes sense that you're saying. Yeah, got it. You're not trying to like, right? You're not trying to just. I was doing it more for, it was more outside in instead of inside out. And so I feel like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also I think that those mishaps, any mishaps we have in our work, I really try to look at it. It's that magic. It's that thing that you'll never get back. But if we lean into it, it's something that can transform you, you know? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and what goes back, yeah, the imperfection, the thing that, where it's not it's not corporate you're not trying to hit something you're not it's just like it the it's it's the beauty of the thing and and the and the most beautiful things are imperfect in that way yeah coleman i said this story i said this story before but um the one minute show i just did i you know you're playing 10 different people and the line was i buzzed the door and larry answers right is one of my lines and then i go into larry who a different person and i was actually like show 60 70 whatever and i was actually waiting for whoever was playing larry to talk and i was like and i because my mind i just checked i checked out you know what i mean i was like i buzzed the door larry answers and i was just waiting for i go oh i'm larry i'm larry too oh it's me oh it's me oh i'm larry it was crazy oh my god i'm anyway i think solo shows are the most terrifying things though like standard comedy as well oh god yeah oh i mean i feel like we could talk to you forever you are what a delight to get to know you man yeah honestly just been such a fan for such a long time so it's just really a thrill to have well i left this because i really admire and like adore you guys so much and i like to hang out with them and like you know hopefully become friends you know well we'll do it in person when i see you i'm going to hug you please hug me yeah me too it'll be a huddle by the way we're looking for more friends we're looking for more friends you better you better read it yeah yeah yeah great thank you guys so much thank you for coming on colman thank you colin you guys are wonderful pal have a great day bye bye bye see you later bye how great is he well uh yeah i was so glad you brought him on well yeah the energy i love his energy he's just he's just got so much i mean he's just like that guy is that guy's an artist man yeah that dude's an artist do you guys believe in like and and and i'm you know here we go looking at a computer here um that i was still feeling uh uh you know unicorns and and uh rainbows but like that there was a vibe do you guys feel like that you get a vibe from somebody and then like that that person's a match for you like yes i would get along with that person or you know when it happens in person you just end up always getting on with that person it's not because of anything they particularly said or it's just it's just a vibe and like do you think that that's like a real thing or is it i'm not am i just a ding no i mean that's that's why that's why you create a relationship with somebody right like is it animal you know like because i feel like you know without communication i feel like animals do that you ever see like like dogs when they just like stare at each other and they'll like they'll start like like immediately just like but it's not they're not giving any any signal or any words is there some sort of a silent communication that exists between two beings at times that are a match or not match i think so yeah yeah i think so man hey dude are you going through something right now if you guys could just call me after this um by the way by the way what if you're what if you're like whatever you're like yeah i feel that and then you like you got his number and you're like hey call me man i feel like we should hang out my money he's like yeah just sorry man i'm not feeling it you know what's so funny by the way i didn't even i didn't even realize um we were both in the running man the edgar wright movie right and when when edgar i forgot to bring it up but when edgar called me he's like do you want to play the game he's like no i don't want to play the game he's like the game show host i was like oh my god yeah that's such a great part and then he i got the script and it was just the opening game show host and coleman played the game show the actual part more specific yeah yeah yeah but he was fantastic in that too he always is anyway never terrible um but you know he he's very funny oh boy by the way god god you got to get better it's so embarrassing for you it's always the same i know it is but because it goes like this because and you see him he goes but but you know yeah and then he looks on his computer where he's sort of halfway written it out go ahead right so um you know he's in the walking dead or the fear of the walking dead you know and he's in a very famous episode called days gone bye god you had to dig deep for that one bye smart smartless is 100 organic and artisanally handcrafted by rob armjarv bennett barbico and michael grant terry smart