Collaboration in action: Keri Wong and the power of community

Welcome to the UK Young Academy Podcast, the show where brilliant minds share bold ideas. I'm Wemail Yu, co-founder of Quantum Days, and I saw host of Low to Grow. I'm Alice McConaughey, Dean of Science and Engineering at Harry Orch University and Keen Hill Walker. Together, Wemail and I will be your host as we dive into the working impact of the UK Young Academy members. We are all part of a growing network of early career researchers and professionals who are working together to tackle society's biggest challenges from every angle whether it's science, arts, education, technology, policy or more. This podcast is your front row seat to stories and the impact of the members in the UK Young Academy. Expect unexpected journeys, big ideas and fresh perspectives from the next generation of leaders across the UK. Whether you're curious about cutting out research, inclusive innovation, or was it really takes to shape policy, you'll find it here. So hit follow and join us to get to know the change makers who are shaping tomorrow. Welcome to the UK Young Academy Podcast. Today on the podcast we have Carrie Wong, one of our UK Y members. Carrie, would you like to tell us a bit more about who you are and what you do? Firstly, thanks, Alice and Wemail for inviting me on this podcast. I'm an associate professor of developmental psychology based at UCL. I'm also a criminologist by training. So a bit of a hybrid situation going here. I love art on the side. If I didn't become a psychologist, I would probably have become an artist. So yeah, there's a little bit about me. I love that wide range of interest that you have Carrie. So how was about how your career journey started and how that led to where you are now? Sounds good. I guess I'm a career academic, but I never always knew that I was going to become an academic. It was really a few, I guess, influential mentors I met during my undergraduate years while studying psychology and technology that really helped me find my path in academia. Certainly they guided me or showed me what academia really is like and how enjoyable it can be. So I've found to really enjoy my work and so glad I have this career. And certainly a lot of the research projects that I do and the students and engagements work that I do as well, lends itself to the passion that I have which is making impact both in education and people's lives and being able to do that more widely. So a lot of my work actually focuses on communities and young people, particularly young people who are marginalized. And don't usually have a voice at the table as it were decision making is happening. And in the last 18 months or so, I have the privilege of being secondited to the home office as part of a UKRI, yes, RC policy fellowship. What this means is that I got 18 months of experience and exposure to what it's like to be inside a governance department, and then to see how change can take place as well and how academics have really influenced that space. And so as a result, I'm hoping that I've come out of the 18 months with sort of renewed hope as well and how academia and government and better work together. And how important this relationship is. So I'm looking forward to doing more work in this space. That's great. It sounds like you've had a really busy past year and a half. I'd love to know more about some of your core research work at UCL. So kind of two main projects are happening at the moment in my lab. And for those of you who are interested, you can book me up the long lab at UCL. One project, which is close to my heart, looks at the role of youth clubs and community centers on its impact on young people's health. So we're talking about mental health, physical health, social health, as well as brain health. There's not a lot of research or evidence showing the impact of these spaces on young people's lives. But my project really is sort of the first one to evidence this in a very rigorous way. We're hoping the projects just wrapped up. So we're hoping to write up and share those findings pretty soon. And so watch this space. A second project that I'm also very keen on and I elude to it in my introduction just now is a sort of collaboration with the national Saturday club in the UK. So this project looks at the goal of native education activities on young people's mental health. So we are my lab and my students were evaluating the role of the creative education on young people's mental health, particularly these are young people. And otherwise wouldn't have access to the creative arts at all. So every Saturday around the country in the UK, many spaces open up for tutors to teach arts as it were in creative education to young people in ages of 13 and 16. And so, you know, the sector of the art sector is also very much underfunded, oftentimes the evidence is that it's sparse. There's not a lot of longitudinal data or evidence to show that things work. And so an evaluation of this kind is going to be very impactful and hopefully will come out of the end of the project with the resources as well. So that other smaller charities doing similar work can also continue to do the good work that's happening and making impact locally. So that's a second project I'm really excited about as well as opening up future research directions in this space as well. Have that thing any findings in either of those two research projects so far that really surprised you? Hmm, surprise, maybe not so much surprise. I think a lot of times it's almost like you go in with the hypothesis or gut feeling that these spaces or these activities should matter and impact people's lives. And I think now we are actually producing the evidence for that to support some of these claims. I think that's where it's pleasant surprise and that work and I certainly hope that more academics and researchers in this space will continue to be interested in this work and that funding actually gets allocated to the work that we are trying to do as a result. And carry on alongside your research activities, you are so they came, I live this year, then we'll have to UK young Academy, what motivated you to first get involved in that. So those of you who are listening might be wondering or considering whether to join UK YA or not. I certainly maybe at the beginning was at two minds when I first saw sort of ads for it. I think it must have been on social media or LinkedIn and things because I guess I wasn't sure whether UK YA was for everyone who are also maybe not in the sciences. And I think at the beginning I wasn't sure, but I still ended up applying because I saw the variety of people in the community and the files off each of them and was very much excited by the prospects of meeting other life-minded individuals who are passionate. I think for me the key themes that really resonated with the work that I do and things that I feel passionate about are definitely on education or education inequalities, laws, health inequalities. If I could play a role in the climate action piece, I would love to as well and share my expertise. And so I think the interdisciplinary unity and change makers, where is why I was drawn to applying for the YA. So Karen, that was really interesting all the work that you've been doing. I'm just going to go a little bit more kind of in depth into actually what you've been doing in the UK young Academy itself. So could you actually maybe maybe just talk over a few things that you've actually been doing as part of the UK young Academy and people who could maybe look a bit more into. Sure, so I'll start with firstly the wide offering of events and workshops that I think UK YA provides to the members. So then I went to a sort of science diplomacy workshop that I really enjoyed and it certainly resonates with some of the work that I'm doing. So I think training like that is very valuable and not something that I would probably otherwise have exposure to. So I'm grateful for all types of training that are being offered by UK YA. Maybe digging a bit deeper and answers certainly knows about this too is sort of within three weeks of joining UK YA being able to represent UK YA to two different science diplomacy conferences and events back in June. The first one I ever went to was the science advice mechanism, which is a I guess the big event or conference as part of the EU commission and you know I saw the opportunity in the newsletter and had to have to jump on that opportunity and signed up for it because again it's not something that I had done at you level as it were. And we have some exposure through the policy work more in the UK level recently and so I was very curious to see well how how are young academies being represented at the level what is the science advice mechanism and how does it feed into the strategy around science diplomacy and certainly at that event you met a lot of other young academy leaders. National leaders who in this base and the conversations were really really fruitful in a sense that left me thinking for days after what was my role as a scientist as well and shortly after just a few days after. And you know Alessir and I were the delegates to join the annual conference which is let me just get the acronym European national young academies conference and this is in burn firstly burns a beautiful place to be but not least to just again continue some of these science diplomacy conversations more at the young academy level. I enjoyed that event and being able to network with a lot of young academies but certainly to join in and also lead on some of these conversations as well so maybe Alistair you had some thoughts on this as well. I would have said it was absolutely fantastic meeting all the other young academies a huge range that they really are and I would definitely gradually use well the different acronyms because that is one of the things there's so many acronyms for all of this. So just really I mean you've been passionate about also that the science diplomacy and the different conferences of workshops that you attended. But isn't actually a project or saying initiative within the young academy that you're kind of particularly proud of. That's a great question. I think I'm still in my early days but I've certainly signed up to be part of quite a few at the moment. Any of the works that are focus on science that science diplomacy and you know join the group and would love to hear more to see how I can participate. But certainly other projects related to young people and giving voice to young people encouraging them or supporting them on their career trajectories also resonates a lot with me. And then still on top of that I think any work on the eye related work as well. I'm also very much passionate about I'm finding myself you know have a more opportunities and options to choose from and saying yes to everything that I can then I actually have time for I think that is something that many UKIA members have spoken about as well when we were inducted so I definitely steal that we were spoiled with choice as it were. Very true I find it quite a challenge as well but how do you actually face any challenges along the way and how did you actually overcome them as well. Yeah I think that the challenge of choice is definitely one of them. I'm not sure I have the best answer in terms of how I overcome them. I think just the fact that there were by default events that I wanted to go to or sign up for but couldn't make because it clashes with other obligations. And so I find myself in that situation quite quite a bit and I would say maybe I just need to be a bit more strategic and truly in what I do next and where I spend my time but so far in the early days of UKIA I'm still really much very much enjoying getting to know everyone getting to know all the projects that are happening and maybe one day I'll be able to propose a project and also do something more focused. That's great. I would say yes the challenge of choice is quite a good challenge to have for you much for it and you've made some excellent choices so far I think and really you've got some good experience and contributed quite a lot. We've said a little bit about how you can contribute to the UKIA Academy but how is your involvement actually with the UKIA Academy shaped your work or your perspectives say. Very good question and I was reflecting on this a lot after our you know visits to the conferences and meeting all the young academies and having those discussions about science diplomacy. I think I feel even more strongly that scientists need to be speaking out and be involved in thinking about how best we can facilitate science diplomacy in our respective fields as it were. I was struck by you know the energy that was in the room for a lot of those conversations and I think part of me is often asking well how do I bring this energy back to my academic space. And I don't have the answer but I do think we are a community that is willing and open enough to listen and collaborate and share and we're all passionate I think about positive change. So in that sense I think we all bond over this is more a matter of okay let's think a bit more strategically about what is our role as the UKIA in all of this and are there things that we could be reading as well or hosting in the future that could be beneficial for the conversation and moving the dial for science diplomacy even in this space. So yeah I think certainly in my line of work now I in the last I say 18 months because that was when I've been on the policy fellowship but certainly I think I feel like I'm the changed individual in a sense that I can't unsee what I know now about or undo what I know now what science diplomacy is and how important it is for me as a scientist as well. This is certainly something that's forever changed my career it's almost like an extra skill that I have now like in my toolbox or it's a tool in my toolbox. That's great so you've touched on actually a little bit within that answer there but it's something I would actually I would ask as well and it is a question that most academics have in the back then mind a lot of the times. So what impact do you actually hope your work will have both within the UK and academy community and potentially beyond it as well. It's a very good question I think as an academic my impact is or has been so far quite local so it's it's the young people that I work with and whether their lives actually change or the better it's all the other stakeholders I work with as well. So teachers to parents to local authorities and various actors as well but increasingly so I think with the policy stuff now that I've gone more exposure to UK YA and other means. It is you know the kind of truth to it all which is you need decision makers to be on board as well with the seeing the change that you've made and unless they are also on board. You won't see wider change or scaled up change of the national level or international level and increasingly seeing more of my role as almost like a mediator or someone a knowledge broker they call it right to be able to see well how do we join up these different sectors and society and how do we ensure you know more of stakeholders. The needs are actually matched in the system so taking more of a systemic approach to thinking how do we move the dial towards the positive change and ensure that there are more lasting effects than the maybe therapy work that I'm doing on the ground or you know the one. If I do a bad impact how do we actually scale that out is a big question that I'm asked right now and that would be I can understand that that would be hopefully my impact. That would be great I when you when you figure out how to do that scale up and when you work without please get back in touch because I'd love to know how to do that as well. Yeah and it's certainly not by myself who's falling alone so you know. On the reasons of all the UK Academy we've got that collaborative effort for everything oh another one is I'm not actually any key lessons you've learned through your UK young Academy involvement obviously you've touched on the kind of the challenge of choice but are there any other lessons you might think you've learned. Yeah I think it helped that I was thrown in the deep end right very early on but I think there's something about believing in what you're bringing to the table. Having that isn't often always clear or when we're in new spaces or new part of joining new communities I think our default position is okay let's wait and see and make sure I'm not saying anything wrong or that this is the culture I need to be fitting in with. But I think with UK why I very quickly felt right at home in a sense that I could see the types of people who are part of the community and I felt welcome to share my opinions and ideas and you know the collaborative nature of it all also meant that we all had something in common even though we are quite different. And coming from very different and I think some of that is like skill face others is sort of topic subject face but I think more than that I think it's also at the personal level. I think there is that as I spoke about the passion the the wants to change things for the better or at least the optimism I think and hope that I think we all hold that feels to me something that I'm holding on to in the community. That I think we can go quite far with as well and so yeah so those are I think that the things that that not necessarily lessons learn but things that I I would say you know join a new community be confident in the knowledge and the expertise that you're bringing to the space and also be willing to learn from other people. The sound like excellent lessons perfect thank you yeah absolutely love the lessons and I think earlier carry both your analysis to touch on how in the UK why there's a very clear sort of collaboration. And I so have there's a lot of desire from all the members to contribute and volunteer the time I think that's quite rare to find in a member led organization but I think it's wonderful that we have that spirit here. We first met when you first joined the UK why as part of the third cohort earlier this year. And I just wanted to ask you know where do you see yourself and the UK why being and say another three years time. I would say we are maybe at the at the cost of the projects really taking off great. And I think we're probably going to see a lot more of these projects being sustained or going bigger wider sort of collaborations. I think my cohort is lucky in a sense that our predecessors have hopefully set out everything now there are from season plays. And there are now maybe even more opportunities coming our way as well as our brand and name that comes more well known internationally. So I think there will be more possibly maybe even international collaborations coming our way as well. And maybe UK why being more of a role a key role in hosting our many European young academies as well from the meetings. I got a sense that you know despite the fact that we're not in the EU anymore they very much still value us. And that they were very much wanting to you know include us in future plans and they recognize our for keys as well. So I think there's real opportunities here for us to play a bigger role. So that's great. And Carrie how do you plan to mesh together your experience as a researcher? Is someone who's done the secondment in policy and also now someone with the UK YA. What is the one thing that you're hoping to be able to bring together in all those strands of your life in the next year? That is a great question and I think my answer would be the common bread throughout all of this work in sort of my time. You know up until this part of my career I would say I'm early career getting into mid career as an academic. But certainly very early career in the policy space. I would say the importance of encouraging early career, you know it could be academics it could be disheners into these various spaces is going to be very important. And something I'm finding myself noticing I suppose having gone through that period of my life now to know actually at the decision making table. Why are there no early career academics here or expertise here because that perspective is so important. And then you know thinking about well, but what would that look like? Probably means there needs to be some senior members advocating for early careers to be in the room for example. And in UKIA obviously many of us are early career of various different disciplines. I see us as being more of a driving force or the people with a lot of energy and also ideas who are able to move things for almost. For many of us maybe the engine for a lot of what we're thinking about. And I think a lot of the issues that we all care about are so big that we need to come together and space to collaborate. And then finally in the academic space, I've certainly set up a few early career researcher networks that are super important. And now after I would say five six years, let's really bearing fruit. And certainly funders are valuing the importance of recognizing early career academics and resourcing early career academics and also understanding the unique challenges that this group is facing. The sociopolitical changes that are constantly changing as well. So I think for me across these three spaces, it's how do we maximize early career voices in all of these spaces and to ensure that they are aligned with the big issues that we're trying to address as well or decisions that we're trying to make. And for any UKY members, listen to his podcast, what is one thing that they can do to help support you with your work? Oh, great question. Well, firstly, maybe suddenly a ping ping me and message, I think I'm getting the hang of slack. So I will be checking that more often. And I guess yeah, anyone who just wants to have a chat, but like I'd love to, you know, have a coffee, grab a coffee in person or online quite flexible. And I think any informal chats are good ways to start thinking about new ideas. So yeah, I'm all for coffee chats and readers. Fantastic. So now, Carrie, we're moving into the quick fire round in this episode. I'm going to ask you three questions and hope that you can respond with the first thing that comes to mind. So first, what's the best piece of advice that you've received personally? Let's go for it. That's a piece of advice. No overthinking necessary and often we do that naturally anyway, but I think it's that, you know, just go for it, just give it a try, no regrets. And one thing that you cannot work without. Oh, I've made my phone. I'm quite addicted to my phone. And last question, what is a big podcast of resource that you'd recommend? Well, I'm going to be a bit naughty here and pitch a podcast for early careers that I actually host. It's called academia at L. So the podcast by ECRs or ACRs. So if you're a lost academic or an ECR academic, who is deciding whether to stay in academia or leave or vice versa. Probably a good podcast with some relevant episodes for you to check out. Well, I've got my evening listening to sorted then. That's great. And yeah, I've definitely got some of my evening and definitely my driving listening sorted as well. I just want to thank you so much, Kerry, for coming along, giving us such interesting answers to the work that you've been doing, your personal work, your academic work. You're doing a UK and academy and really what it's what has been to you and what you've contributed to it as well. Are you any final thoughts for advice for anyone listening to this? Maybe if they've potentially said to thinking of joining a UK and academy or even people like me who've been in it for a few years. Any any advice or thoughts for us? I would say if you're thinking about joining UK YA again, go for it and for for your information, I tried twice. I'm only successful the second time, so that's probably helpful to know for existing members. I would say, yeah, let's meet up for coffee and let's collaborate, love to hear how we can create something great together. That's great. Now you did mention your podcast, but just give you the opportunity. So if people want to learn more about your work or to connect with you, what's the best way to do that? I'm going to say, Google's are a great friend, so do Google me, you'll find a bunch of links, but particularly my lab website might be useful, so let's carry long.com. And if you want to follow up on our research updates, I'm also on social media, LinkedIn and ex. The handle is at Dr. Carrie Wong. That's right. Well, just again, thank you so much for coming along. That is the end of our podcast for today. Join us in the future to hear more from members of the UK Academy. Thank you all very much for listening and until next time. Thank you for listening to the UK Young Academy podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, hit follow and leave us a review. Stay tuned as we've got more incredible voices and stories coming your way. Until next time.