153: Coffee, costs, and Paris wishes for 2026 with Jay Swanson

You're listening to the new Paris. I'm your host, Lindsay Tremuda. Bonne an'é, bonne an'é, 2026. I know, it's been a while since you've heard from me this way. By the time I ran the last episode in early November, I was edging toward burnout. That's true. I was a couple of weeks away from a trip to Japan, an actual vacation, and the list of work to complete became so overwhelming and crushing that I honestly thought I would need to be wheeled onto the plane in a gurney. That did not happen, but a few items on my to-do list, including this show, took a back seat. I should know better. I have some very smart friends who have researched and written about burnout. I know the signs, but I couldn't get it together. I heard from many listeners inquiring about the show's return, and that was a lovely and welcome surprise. So here I am, thanking you for your patience and hoping you're still up for these conversations about Paris and how it's changing. To kick things off a few days into a year that's already turbulent, I thought I'd keep it lighter, more casual, with a friend of the show. I crossed town the day after Paris was submerged in snow, a fun rarity, to chat with Jay Swanson, YouTuber, and creator of Paris in my pocket. We talked about coffee in the city, the cost of things, pearl clutching newspaper stories, and most importantly, what we hope for Paris in 2026. Enjoy the show. It's been a while, right, and we are January 6th. Oh, we're recording on January 6th. I didn't even think about it until you set it out loud, actually. Oh, wow. On the one hand, it's "Gelette du Wadde" right? It's "Gelette du Wadde" if we believe in such things. I believe in "Gelette du Wadde". Okay, yes. It's one of my favorite pastries. It's also one way to make the new year feel a little bit less void of stuff to look forward to. "Gelette du Wadde" for any of your listeners is a puff pastry, if they weren't aware. It's "The King's Cake", which I think. "The King's Cake". I always say "Gelette du Wadde" but it's "Gelette du Wadde". No, I think it's "Gelette du Wadde". Is it "Gelette du Wadde"? Okay, that's one of the ones I always tell. This is going to be an episode about Jay doubting himself. I have a feeling. But it's a puff pastry filled with Mausapan, right? From Jipad. From Jipad. See, there it goes right off the bat. From Jipad, which is an almond paste. Well, it's kind of confusing. Mausapan, from Jipad, you know, from Jipad. From Jipad, yeah. We're off to a great start. Anyways, here's the guy explaining it to you incorrectly. But the tradition is that you cut it into pieces and share it. You have the youngest under the table who's directing who gets which piece, so they can't see which piece is being made. Right, right. Because inside of it is a fev, a little, well, not actually a bean, but a little porcelain something or other. Yeah, and actually a lot of the bakeries are getting creative year on year with who they, or what the design of the fev, and also, you know, who they farm it out to. Sometimes it's like really interesting, historic houses who make these little porcelain things, right? So it's like another way to talk about just fancier and fancier ways of breaking your teeth. Yes, although I collect them. I have a whole, I have like, yeah, I have an empty mug. You'd think it would be fuller. I guess I started kind of late in collecting them, but I collect it now. Unless it's someone, you know, who's coming over, who wins it, who wins it, and then they take it with them. And they get to be the king or queen for the day. Exactly. I also collect champagne caps, because those are actually, according to some, worth something, depending on which, yeah, yeah. I mean, I just stick it in a, just keep it in the mug. Yeah, exactly. You'd never know. I'm going to have to ask you after we're done. I'm doing my champagne goals for the year, and I'll have to ask you some champagne questions with the treasure. Yeah, because I know you're the champagne expert. You're also the Frazier Pan expert. So it all comes together. Expert is a big word. I know. It's a word I'm, I feel like I'm subconsciously trying to like sabotage anyone's attempt at calling me an expert right now. First of all, it's just a very slippery term. Yeah, it's an dangerous term. Yeah, it's about as reliable as a guru. The whole reason I was diving into the, uh, get it through while those just to make the, it's funny. When I first moved here, I lived in Nice in 2007, and I got here for the school year. And I remember they came out and I, I just saw them with the crowns. I think they got my attention. I was like, what is this? And I got one because I never seen it or heard of it before. And I was like, this is amazing. I love this. And then I spent the rest of the year trying to find them because I didn't understand that it was a seasonal. I was like, why are they hiding them from me? Why would they leave more? I don't understand. Uh, so yeah, get them if you're in Paris while you're here. It'll basically run through the whole month. And by the end, you won't want to, at least you and I will not want to see one or taste one by, you know, like two weeks from now for a whole, yeah, it's definitely runs its course pretty quickly because thankfully they are a portion generously. Yes, they are. They are. And they're, you know, they're pretty, uh, it's like the upskit. It's like the good version of a fruit cake. Oh my God. What? I feel like because you know how fruit cakes used to, they don't exist anymore. But when we were kids, it was the joke because they just appeared. People would bring them parties like there's always fruit cakes around. Okay. So not in terms of consistency appearance or just talking in terms of like like ubiquitousness, but it's like if fruit cakes were good, it's a seasonal cake that only comes around. And instead of passing it around, you actually eat it. Okay. That's an interesting take. That's, that's my, that's my take this morning. Okay. Well, you bring up an interesting point, which is, uh, or we both brought up an interesting point, which is that they're available all month. And it's a, it's a, it's a financially interesting item for bakeries, right? So you come off of Christmas, which is a huge moment economically for bakeries, chocolate shops, all sorts of confectionery. And, and, and people who, you know, do meats and, you know, butchers also were working kind of around the clock in, in December, but, but these moments are, you know, very important in terms of running a business in France. Um, and the reason I segue that way is that you and I have been talking a lot on and off for the last year, because we meet up for coffee a lot and we do our talks. Our deep dives, our existential debates, or like internal TED talks, right, over coffee. And we have seen a proliferation of businesses open that posture, yeah, post coffee shop, a word. Yeah. No, um, they, they, and when we say coffee shop, what we're referring to is specialty coffee, which was, right, you know, the reason I find it so important to stipulate that is that it was based on the ideas of fair trade sourcing and quality and making sure that once you're actually in the coffee shop, that the person making it understands how to do that properly extraction using good milk. And we have seen kind of a, a big, you really have good milk makes me know exactly where you're taking that portion of the conversation. Well, I just want to say that, you know, it's easy to say like, Oh, there are a bunch of lousy coffee shops that have opened in the last year, which is factually correct. Based on concepts with funky drinks and, you know, let's have a maple ginger latte stuff that never really existed here before. Sure. And that I wouldn't call specialty necessarily. They might be using, you know, locally roasted beans, but the rest of it doesn't feel well, I think there can be an evolution to like what, I don't think specialty coffee has to be locked down and, and not evolve, right? Like, I, I know that when I first moved here, I wasn't, now I drink my coffee black as I have served it to you. I've evolved in my enjoyment of it. But like, I know that the introduction to it for me was with milk and sugar, right? Of a variety of different types and flavors. And like, that's kind of what opened the door to me. And then I progressively reduced the amount of other things and increased the amount of coffee. It's that thing, the accusation that I would get, you know, the people would make is like, well, you don't really like coffee then if you're trying to cover the flavor so much. Right. And to be fair, the coffee I was drinking was garbage. So it's not like, I would, he would have enjoyed it. We're probably making it better. It was probably making it better. I think for me, you want to flavor your coffee, do something interesting with it. I think we should always be experimenting with food. I think that keeps the dynamism of food and the vibrancy of it exists in the creativity and the ever changing nature of what we are approaching. So whether that's by refining your roasting process or you go to substance, right? And he's just like getting into the absolutely most granular elements of like, this is how I'm going to freeze and extract the milk. Right. That's in the second all these small, it's upon appointment only. Yeah. It's an experience, right? It's not actually a concept. So that's like the purest experience. And I, I guess like, that's more where I would lean. I'm not necessarily going to like do too much else. But I also understand like, there's so many fun things that get discovered just by playing around. But it's less, for me, it's less about, so I know I brought up like the funky flavors and milk and whatever. You're heading more towards the pinchest version. Yeah, it's really aesthetically speaking. And it's all these young people who are like, this is a concept that works now. Right. And we know how this is a country where even to get a bank loan. Yeah. The banks need to see that it's a concept that works. So you have lower overhead. Yeah. You know, yes, you have to, you know, potentially renovate a space, but you have lower overhead. You, the items themselves are not that expensive. You don't need necessarily tons of staff. Yeah. But so that also was assigned to me that economically we're in a place where people can justify maybe spending on a six or seven euro cup of coffee a couple times a week in place that they think is fun and cute. And maybe they struggle with more. So is this not a sign of sort of where things are going? I don't know. I think I think what we've seen other waves, right, come through Paris, like when burgers kicked off, which actually was a great renaissance of the burger in Paris. I feel like when that, when I first moved, moved, moved to Paris in 2013, 2012. It was on the, it was after living in Nice for like in 20 2007. You couldn't find a cheeseburger to save your life. It wasn't just like a frozen patty. And they couldn't make a burger bun ironically in the country that created brioche. You know, you couldn't find a good bun to save your life then fast forward five years. And there are a couple of spots here that had popped up and like they were that it was kind of like specialty coffee when I moved back. Again, in that you, they're like three places, right, where you go and be like, oh my god, this is a good burger. And then it explodes into this thing where it's like, oh, there, then there's a multiplication of good burger joints. And then all of a sudden people see it and like, oh, that works. And then there's an explosion of bad burgers. Yeah. Yeah. And it's same with tacos, right? People that became a thing, the French taco. They're just like, let's paniniate. They went out of business. Did they really? I think. Well, they sold that guy. Didn't he initially, he sold to, so he got his money and ran at least. Wow. I mean, power to him. But I think it's when as that exploded, again, like 2017 or whatever, the then all of a sudden, everyone and their dad added the word taco to like their menu or to the awning in front of their restaurant because they're like, oh, that word gets people in. So there's like this weird marketing kick that happens after a trend goes in. And especially coffee's been slowly succumbing to that for the last few years. I think now the difference is that kind of to your point, it's that new way of a people starting something new as well. Which is not a bad thing. I'm all for entrepreneurship. I just, you know, I don't want to see in a year's time that they have to close up because they should put more, well, I mean, some of them deserve to. Well, it's hard because you said like the overhead is low and things don't cost that much, but like my understanding of coffee shops as someone who's never owned or run one. So if you're listening and you do, feel free to reach out and let me know how wrong I am. But is this thing of like, it's volume, you either, well, it's not even volume, right? The volume comes from opening multiple coffee shops. So you have to get to a place where you actually are moving a lot of product to make enough money or you have to sell food and turn it into a full, a fuller experience. So opening the little corner coffee shop that just does basic cold pastries and has, you know, an espresso machine and whatever you're doing for Batch Brew, that's actually very difficult to make a living, especially when rent is so high. And the margins are not. The margins are not good. People think that, you know, you're selling bean water. So you're making lots of money, but it's not the case. But the beans are getting more and more different. They're very expensive, especially when you're talking about having good beans and you're buying from like specialty rosters, local rosters, or you're roasting yourself. So there's like a lot of a passion project behind it. I think I won't name names, but I know French friends or friends, family members who are very successful in old, kind of like the old school version of French petisserie restaurant hearing, who opened the coffee shop because they said, oh, this works. Everybody likes this. It's a trendy, fun thing to do. And they closed six months later because, yeah, in Paris, because they just couldn't keep the numbers going. And in my opinion, knowing them, a lot of it came down to, like you're saying, the aesthetic and not fully understanding the business model behind it, but also not understanding. There's a coffee shop not far from here in the 16th that opened where the staff were literally going into the local noir around the corner to ask questions about coffee because they had no training. Okay, so this is where I think, and again, I'm not saying that somehow in the US people are that much more researched before they do things. But I do think that in at least in big cities, the financial barrier to entry is so high. And Josh Fontaine has been on the show to talk about how in New York you need private investment. You don't go to the bank and get a loan for a business. So you're talking about really needing to be able to tell investors like, yeah, this is how it's going to work. This is why it should work here. I swear to God, they like have any old crummy name. Usually named after their address. Yeah. Which fine. But, you know, and, you know, they'll go up and clearly present this case to a, you know, so I'm just, there are moments where I'm like, could the banks be a little bit stricter with what they dream like? Maybe, I don't know because I've never had to apply for a bank loan here. I, yeah, I honestly, I'm not the right person to ask that question. Well, I know. It's more of a rhetorical question. However, some people are not actually getting loans. Like they're pulling fine, you know, family money together and they run it as a whole. Yeah, a lot of this neighborhood. It's a lot of, it's a lot of like, I mean, I don't know if I should call, I don't know if we want to call them band new projects, but there's a couple spaces in my neighborhood that like cycle through new business every six months. In the same, in the exact location. Because I think part of it is just because like a number of them, I know have been just family projects, right? It's like wife and son of, I don't know, I never met the husband, but out of a family, the mom and the son decided to open a vegan pizzeria on a street that gets so little traffic. And the pizza was terrible. And it was a very small space and you couldn't really sit in and you could take it out and like, and they, you know, they, they also did that thing where they opened in July and immediately went on vacation in August. Brand new business, you know. Fanny Project, I think, is the correct. So there's a lot of stuff like that that happens at that location is now on its, I think, fifth restaurant in the last four years. But same owners? No, different. Well, maybe the building is owned by the same people, but different owners, different concept. And like the last one was a good concept that I really liked. Alfie, like their sandwiches were tasty. Unfortunately, they closed. So if they can't do it, that location is just really bad. And then whoever came in after them kept literally everything just changed the sign and put who knows what in there to eat. And they closed down six months later. So there's like this, people try to do it cheap. They try to do it completely renovated. They do whatever. And that's one of many locations I've seen over the years that like just is constantly revolving through. And I don't know if that's a question of location, of landlord, of like there's so many different things that it could be. But that kind of speaks to me also of like that. I don't know if it's a lack of research, because you're talking about research, but also one of it's a lack of transparency. Because the real estate market here is so opaque. How do you find out the information you want to know about a location? Well, I don't think they're actually getting up off their butts and observing the neighborhood. You know, there are people who open on a street where you're like, "Did you spend any time looking at the flow of traffic to see if this would be a good idea?" Even just anecdotally, you know, like taking the time to observe because there are businesses where you're like, why? Yeah. Of all the places. Why? Yeah. Well, you're that desperate to open now. Unless you're someone who can really drive people out. I mean, if you look at the chefs who run Dandelion in the 20th, I mean, that is a little bit of a hike for a lot of people. I mean, look at Keshe and I'm I got that's also true. They're literally hidden like to get out there. Like are you kidding? So that relies on, you know, a network. The ability to get journalists out to get. I think that's what kind of blows my mind to some degree, because I've seen this a lot, you know, in the independent, sub-published writing world right where there's that I think it's very much the similar mentality, just with different stakes, because you have so many people that like, I'm going to write a book and then it's going to be a bestseller. And there's so many steps between finishing like, writing the end of the end of a manuscript and everything else that you're hoping comes after. And I wonder if like opening a cafe or a restaurant in Paris for some people is the equivalent of that where they're like, "I'm going to own a coffee shop." And then. And people will come. They do that. Yeah, the people will come. It'll be successful, you know, like whatever. And I think for me, again, as somebody who's never, I've worked in restaurants. I did that, that tour in high school and in college. And so I know how much work it is from that standpoint. But now, after living here, after knowing so many restaurateurs, business owners, the amount of work for like that, that goes into running a restaurant in Paris beyond the food, just keeping it up and running. Oh, yeah. Staffing, dealing with firstsaf, like the nightmares that come with it. I cannot imagine how hard it must be. So, I mean, I can't imagine in some instances how hard it is. So to have somebody just be like, I'm kind of bored. I think I'm going to, and I know people, and I know people who have done this. Yeah. My parents will fund this thing if I just do it. So why don't we do it? And the parents having, again, successful restaurateurs, the parents who have made their money doing it, their mentality being, let's just rent the space and then we'll figure out the concept concept. Are you kidding me? Like you're going to, you're going to start paying thousands of euros a month on rent for an empty space before you even know what you're putting in it. Some of us are not built the same way, Jay. Well, some of us just don't have bank accounts that have that many zeros on them. Right. Before the decibel point. But I think it is this, it is an interesting thing. I was sad there's, there's so many reasons why businesses come and go. So to bring it back to the coffee shops and the Pinterest board. Because for me, that's a big part of the thing. I have my own, you know, subconscious and conscious criteria for whether or not I'm going to even try a coffee shop. And that, that, like, Pinterest, Pinterestification of the coffee shop in Paris has been a growing thing for years now. And, you know, I don't wish anybody ill. I hope they do. Well, I don't want any business to, most businesses, at least to fail small businesses in Paris. But I'm very curious to see kind of how it runs that course. Yeah. And there's another issue, which yes, you know, I've been itching to bring up. And that's the milk situation. So, okay. So in the new Paris. I have some Oakley, by the way. No, I'm not interested in that either. So in the new Paris, I talk about how milk in terms of the coffee movement was a big, was an important element because where were people drinking coffee before? A counter and a grassroots? Yeah, or just like local cafes, you know, the cafe that's open from 7 a.m. to, no, not those, those yes, but you know, like your neighborhood spot, right? Yeah. And they used shelf-stable milk, which is why, which is one element that made the coffee taste awful if you were getting something like a cafe cream, right? Okay. The reason they use shelf-stable milk is because it lasts a long time. And you don't need it refrigerated, right? Yeah, exactly. It's easy to store. It's called UHT. It doesn't cost you electricity, but it's also, I remember the first time I saw it was in Germany, a guy that I was staying with. It was like, would you like some milk? And then he went to the cupboard to get milk. And I was like, milk doesn't come from a cupboard. I don't understand what's happening. Well, so, okay, it has. It's cost-effective. It's easier to store. It's, you know, it tastes terrible. Yeah, but the funny thing is I was stuck on a hospital ship in West Africa for four years or that's all we had. So it doesn't offend me anymore. Okay, well, I won't lie. So I'm going to just talk at you then. You can talk at me. That's fine. I'm here for it. So here's the thing, when all the specialty coffee places open and you had people who really believed in, don't smirk at me like that. People who really believed in the importance of caring about a fresh product, right? Just like you care about wine, you care about produce, you care about meat, all of these things. Yeah. Well, the milk is meant to enhance. It's not meant to mask. Yes. So if your coffee is bad and you use good milk, well, you'll probably still be able to tell. If you're using bad coffee and bad milk, then it's just gross. If you're using bad milk on good coffee, it's a waste. So everyone was sort of on their horse about fresh milk. So that became the standard in a certain caliber of establishment. And what has started to happen in the last year or two is the shelf stable milk returning even in places that were on that high horse about quality. And the arguments are what we just said, we don't have the storage space for all this fresh milk. And, you know, in the case of a place that does more black coffee, like motors, I can sort of understand it. That is their, that is their specialty, actually, there's pour over and black coffee. Okay. But others where they're doing high volume and would probably go through all the milk, then it just seems like they're taking the piss, right? Like they're they're they're getting higher. Why are they doing it just for the margins? Well, that's what my that's what I'm thinking hypothesis. Yeah. That's my hypothesis. And I've spoken to other specialty coffee people who some who are equally as I rate because they also are using good quality milk and are pricing their coffee at the same rate because they can't go higher. And so they are sort of, you know, peved about that. And then I heard from a consultant in coffee who said there are some places now. I think this is a cop out who claimed that the shelf stable milk creates a neutral flavor that they prefer. I'd be super interested to hear some of the science behind that. Well, there are there isn't any science behind it. I guess these people don't have a palette. I don't know. They can't taste it. That's fair. But all that to say, I don't love that. Yeah, I know you don't. We take comes up everywhere we go. Lindsay's got her eye out for the UHT milk. If you're you're on notice, if you're listening to this in your coffee shop owner, she's you're coming, you better hide the UHT milk. No, but in reality, the truth is there are plenty of places that use UHT milk that actually do good black coffee. So I also have to say to myself, I guess I'm not drinking a cappuccino today. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, this isn't important. But it is to you. But and that matters. It is when you consider purchasing power and, you know, the cost of things. Yeah. I mean, well, and the costs does seem to only go up. The other thing that ties into this is this guardian piece that I shared with you that I'm going to include in the show description for people to read. Yeah. Interestingly, the guy's name is Paul Taylor. I know I saw that. Which gave me a little chuckle. It's really funny. I'm not showing you the Paul though. No, Paul Taylor is Jay's friend who is a comedian. Yeah. And he also cared to read. He would not care to read that article, I don't think. But I'm just going to read one, one little piece of it. And the guy says, restaurateurs now face a choice between reheating mass produce pre-cooked frozen food from wholesalers to cut costs or trying to attract customers who care about healthy eating with a short menu of locally sourced produce, cooked to order, which has a higher labor cost. Sadly, the former are fairing better than the latter. Are they? First of all, the guy does not really share much in the way of like citations citations. He speaks to one hospitality industry. And he quoted like a TV interview at one point. But all that to say, this, this feels exactly like and you weren't here yet, but like the almost 20 years ago when the foreign media, specifically out of the UK, were picking apart the disintegration of French food, right? The decline. However, they're talking about, the guy talks about France, right? In the headline, I think it's the culinary, the culinary haven of early 2000s, United Kingdom. It was definitely the UK. But already what got me was him talking about France when really he's talking about Paris. And he does go in to talk about Paris specifically in the actual piece. But this idea that there's fine dining and there's McDonald's and KFC and junk food. And everything in between is just out of reach for the average person, which feels untrue. I'm willing to acknowledge that things are getting more expensive. People feel stretched thin. Their wallets are not quite as flush. But this feels like a cop out. I got to the end of the article and literally just said, what is the point? I couldn't tell what point he was trying to make because it just felt like he was complaining. And they published it. And I don't know if it's just because people wanted to read complaints. People love reading complaints about Paris in particular, so fair enough. I think for me, it did feel, I mean, for one, McDonald's has been wildly popular for a decade or longer. Like the decade now, like since the 70s. We know in Paris in France. It is the second. Since the 70s? Well, it opened. When it opened, it was initially. Yeah. Coca colonization. Right. And then it picked up in a massive way. And it's the second biggest market for McDonald's globally. Yeah, it's huge. Yeah. So that's nothing new is my point. No, it's not new. So the whole time I've been here, it's been huge. I feel like my neighborhood McDonald's is one of the cheapest places to go. Everybody dresses so well. Going to make their McDonald's. So like, so on the one hand, it's like the fast food side of things is growing. Like there are more the like rep who bleak is becoming America square, right? Like there's a five guys and a Popeyes and a Starbucks. Yeah, but it's actually a very nice Starbucks as well. So like that, I know that hurts you to hear that, but it is nice. And they're a set foot inside, but it looks nice. Anyways, my point, I guess is like there's there's a raising another question for me, which is something I've always wanted to ask you more directly, which is what what is your definition of fine dining? So that varies on who you're talking to. I think you're talking to me. Well, tasting menu, you're probably looking at a certain price range. You might have fine cutlery. Maybe there's, you know, a tablecloth, although there are new beasters that are bringing back the tablecloth right now. But you're looking at also certain ingredients they'll use that are clearly more expensive lobster products that are not everyday items. But the other thing that this his poorly delivered argument. And he does say that he, you know, was a reporter. I don't know what the argument is. Well, the argument is like Paris is sharing a garbage. Yeah, that's old man yells at cloud is kind of what it feels like. Well, yeah, and also he was he talks about how he was here reporting in the 70s, right? So this is a guy who's been here. He should know. Right. And my question is, when we think about where we go, why bars and, and, and, you know, we rate for 20 euros. Yeah, so that's where I like, I take issue. And, and there's clearly an information gap. There are people who might not actually know how to figure out where all these places are. It should follow you. And you and the fooding and whatever, right? Like there are sources. But just to say that the only food that exists here now are, you know, Michelin and Michelin start places. We did there are sandwich places in there as I recall. And what is true? And you and I know this, there are more sandwich places. There are cababs. They're very good. More burgers like they're saying, yeah, street food places. But again, I think that reflects also the cost of doing business. It's not just what people will spend on. It's also about what it costs to actually get something going here and labor costs. So it's very high. Well, I think that's the thing too is that everybody here, because of the cost of doing things, especially legally, like everybody is, I mean, this is a, this is a left hand term, but, right? Like the, the cash economy that exists in France and like the all this, everything that happens under the table. And like, just take a look at who's in the kitchen, you know, like there's a lot of that kind of stuff that's going on. So in order to stay afloat, the French system does need to be reformed. I don't know what that looks like. There's why it's a left turn that I probably shouldn't take, because I don't have a solution for it. But to his, his point, it's like, yeah, it's no offense, Paul, if you're listening, but it does scream of some level of ignorance. It says the guy who already messed up Franger Pan earlier, so throw that at me. But it's that thing of like, there are so many great restaurants where you can go eat fresh local produce. There's even, I can even think of like a Japanese restaurant that sources all of their food from the yield of accounts, including their chicken, they make a katsudon, they make a really delicious chicken bun, they do all this really good stuff. And it's very affordable. Then it becomes a question of affordability. What does that mean for different people? For different people who's eating and how much. And I feel like he should have, that should have been part of it. That is really part of it. And ultimately, I think the thing that really kind of bothered me mostly that what I told you is I felt like he's missing the forest for the trees. In the sense that like, there are broader economic struggles here, whether you're a business owner, and it's just really hard to stay afloat, whether you're an average French person who would just like to eat out occasionally, and like, you're struggling to pay your bills. We've forgotten the gillage on movement because they did make summer forms and things have changed a little bit. COVID squashed it. COVID squashed it as well. And then also, we've ignored a lot of the problems that we're facing as a country, as a like civilization right now. So like, I think like, I don't know, the complaining about like the local bistro not serving as many people as they did 30 years ago, is this combination of like, well, tastes change, street food is more of a thing now. That doesn't mean it's not a bad thing. And also, we have this whole spectrum of affordability. And then I feel like we should be asking the question, why aren't we helping the average person be able to afford? Well, yeah. And that's the big, that's a different, he might say that's a different article, but at the same time, it is. But it's the root of what he's complaining about, right? Exactly. Because like, not to get political, but it's the beginning of the year. Everything is political, Jay. I know. And it's January 6th, but it's that thing of like, if there's a reason that like, people have less and less money and yet the wealth gap is exploding and luxury goods are being sold so much more and everything else, that money is going somewhere. So if it's not in the average person's pocket to spend at the local bistro, don't blame that person for now eating fast food. Like that. And to me, that's missing the force for the trees is like, he's like, basically blaming consumers for making choices he disagrees with when maybe they're being forced to and they don't have a choice in the first place. Could that maybe be a letter to the editor that you write? Why would I write a letter to the editor? Just say it's a good argument. So, okay, only a few minutes left. Okay. What do you hope for in 2020? I was going to say, did you expect it to be half talking about coffee? Was that the plan? I just wanted a chat. I love Jen with you. I just wanted to chat. You know one of my favorite people. It's so one of my big goals for 2026 is to spend more time with Lindsey Trimuda. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Complaining about everything. What do we not? Yeah. Yeah, what do you hope for Paris in 2026? I hope for Paris to stop putting napkins under my cookies. Oh, that's something we did not. We didn't even get into that. Yeah. It's a it's a weird trend that's happening right now, but they're like, well, you know, the napkin, I don't know what they're just trying to pin the napkin down, but don't do it with the gooey chocolate. No, they don't have a napkin to wipe your hands. Well, I lost some chocolate to that because I can't wipe it off the napkin like I can wipe it off the plate. It's a serious problem. And B, yeah, where am I going to wipe my hands now? Because it's covered in buttery chocolate. It's delicious napkin. Can't chew that down. I don't know that the chocolate has butter. No, the cookie does. Yeah. I mean, the non chocolate grease marks. Okay. It shouldn't call them grease, but so how about a more serious hope for Paris? More serious hope for Paris. I hope, you know, that's a good question because like I had really high hopes for 2025 as a rebound from the Olympics. All right. And I don't think that that really came to fruition. So if I had a hope that would be an extension of that, like how I would like to see because visitors came back, but I don't, it doesn't just doesn't feel quite like businesses got as much as I had a hope out of that. And again, I wonder if that's the point of the Guardian article we were talking about, like how much of it is that people just don't know where to go? So I guess I would hope that for Paris 2025, 2026, I guess I would hope that for Paris 2026, more travelers, visitors, and even some locals would get a little farther off the beaten path, find something new and cute and undiscovered and support a local business here in Paris in a way that they haven't or. That's a good hope. But I'll be doing that. You know, I'm trying. How about you? Yeah, I hope that we start to see the fading of or more fatigue with the, I'm a so-and-so who's lives in Paris for five minutes. These are my favorite places. Yeah, I'm sorry, the voice, I know sorry, it's Lindsay and UH, it's this, it's TikTok, TikTokers and UH T-Milks, the things that kill me. It's really just to say if you're a consumer and I was recently in the position of someone who had to plan a trip to a destination I had never been, which was in Tokyo, Kyoto, and you know, other parts of Japan. I'm still jealous. And, and you see the same kinds of content, right? So it's not just for Paris, but my red flags, or I feel the red flags go up when I see that stuff. When it feels like everyone is saying the same thing. And all you see when you arrive there are lines of foreigners and no one local, right? So the places that I leaned on reporters and journalists and friends who have very good taste in, I don't know, ceramics or pastry, whatever, and collected that kind of, those kinds of suggestions together to make an itinerary. And I would just hope that people stop thinking that, you know, yes, you and I are on on the internet. We are on social media, but I think not to call us experts because we started off but the idea of having expertise comes with years of experience and getting beneath the surface. And I would, I guess, so my to summarize, I would love for people to go beyond the surface. And that is a fairly annual hope because it clearly needs reiterating, but I really hope people will do so, because I think it leads to a better experience and a better connection with Paris. And Cooper hopes that too. No one can see Cooper, but maybe they hear him sniffling around. My dog just joined us. He was waiting for his food for the first half of this episode. And now he's staring him because he's not on my lap where he belongs. Sorry, buddy, there's a microphone. I know, but it's tough. And with that, Jay, everybody check out Paris in my pocket, which is Jay's very successful long running project. Check out his YouTube. And I'm sure he'll be back on. Maybe we'll launch our book club this year. Our internet book club. Talk about it. Yeah, let us know if you're interested in that. We had this idea of talking about books related to France and sort of analyzing them and maybe making that a live thing. Who knows? Yeah, it was thrown out there. And talking about it, if you'd like to hear two non-experts talk about their love of France, elicidate the globe. Anyway, you'll respond. And Jay, until next time, I'll meet you over a cup of coffee. Sounds great, Lindsay. See you soon. That's the show for today. If you're listening on Spotify, be sure to check out the poll related to this episode by scrolling down in your app. There are more exciting conversations to come this season, so I hope you'll subscribe or share the show with a friend if you've been enjoying what you've heard so far. As always, you can find more from me at LindsayTremuda.com and at the new Paris Dispatch on Substac. A très bientôt.