Code of Care: Ethics that shape social work- Part 1

(upbeat music) - Welcome to the "Socially Engaged" podcast where we dive deep into the heart of social work and the people who make it happen. I am your host, Roger Suclope. In our very first episode today, I'm joined by a dear friend of mine, someone who is very close to my heart, Stacey Anderson. Stacey is a passionate social worker who will share what she does, why she chose this path and how her social work education continues to shape her practice. You'll hear real life stories, lessons learned about social work, and reflections on ethical dilemmas that challenged her values and strengthened her resolve. Whether you're a student, a professional, or simply curious about the impact of social work, this conversation offers insight, inspiration, and a powerful reminder of what it means to be socially engaged. All right, so let's get started. Stacey Anderson is a licensed clinical social worker practicing in North Carolina. She holds both a master's as well as a bachelor's degree in social work. Stacey's professional experience is very diverse. She has provided case management for persons living with HIV/AIDS, community-based crisis intervention services for individuals and families, outpatient therapy in multiple settings, administrative clinical supervision, as well as clinical supervision for a licensure and positions in executive management, including co-owner of a group mental health practice, as well as teaching positions in academia. Stacey Anderson, welcome to the socially engaged podcast. You have done a number of things in the community, not only as a social worker, but as a human being. How do you have time to fit all that? - Very intentionally. Intentionality is a key here, right? Stacey, tell us a little bit about what inspired you to pursue a career in social work. - I love that question. I love that question. I love asking that question to other social workers 'cause I feel like we all have a story. And I feel like we don't just sort of stumble upon social work and oh, I'll do this. But for me, I actually, I did not know social work was a profession before I got to college. So I just knew that I wanted to do something in my life where I helped people who didn't have a voice. And at that time, what really stood out to me was children. Like in high school, I'm talking as a really young person. I just thought, children really need to, they have to depend on adults to do the right thing on their behalf. They have to depend on them to be good people, to take care of them, to keep them safe. And that doesn't always happen. So I wanted to be a person who could be that person for children, but also just other people who maybe were in a position that they didn't have a voice or they needed support or help or whatever the case may be. The thing is, I just thought that would be something I did in my free time after, you know, I did my real job. So I went to college thinking that I was gonna major in business and I was gonna make a lot of money so that I could use that money to support my volunteer efforts. And I wanted, I did, I did with no money. And I found a intro to social work class and I took that class and it literally changed my life. I just thought, oh my gosh, there's like, I can actually get paid to do what I love. And I'm cute 25 years later, still doing what I love. And I didn't, the social work degree just showed me how to. Showed me how to do it, yeah. - So those intro to social work courses are really important. - Oh my gosh. - Extremely important. That's, like you mentioned, that's where you first, not only were you introduced to social work, but all the gamuts that involve social work practice is just not one thing, it's a multitude of things that goes into social work practice. Thanks for sharing that. Sounds like there was a lot of motivation there, not only by the course, but perhaps by the person who taught the course as well. - I'm confident there was both, definitely. And I just continue to see that over and over again, like the importance of people in our profession. And that's a part of my passion as you kind of mentioned in the intro of just developing other social workers and just understanding that power that we have, that's power of connection with other people. That intro to social work class helped me see that the values of social work actually align with my personal values. - So we have intentionality and connection to incredible social work words. Let's talk about your social work education a bit here. So describe for us the connection between what you learned in school and what you experienced in the field of social work. What lessons stood out to you as you navigated some surprises or challenging throughout your career? - So much. Even to this day, like I'm still thinking about things that initially I learned in undergrad, I had a professor who was very much into social workers being well. And honestly, I don't know if you've seen this, Roger, but I've sort of seen from the beginning of my career to now there being sort of a shift of your social worker and you do all the things and you help, help, help, help, help to sort of, okay, yes, that's great, but also like take care of yourself also, you know. And so at that time, I felt like I wasn't really getting a lot of that message. I wasn't thinking that at the time, but I think that was the case when I think back on it. And she, Dr. Carol Hostetter. - Wow, you remember. - Heck yeah, I remember. Like I still see her face and she was so intentional about building relationships with us, with the class. And something that she would say at the end of every class is no matter what you do, take care of you. That really didn't mean a whole lot to me at that time. I just, I just didn't get it. I really, I didn't understand it. And it wasn't until I was actually practicing that I got it. - It resonated. - It resonated. Like, yeah, we have to, we have to do that. And she sort of like gave me permission to do that, you know, when I started working. So I think many, if there were social workers or students listening, I would say that it's not so much what you're getting from the text, right? But how the significance of instructors is that they bring it to life and connect the dots and sort of help you to see that really taking care of yourself and that balance is something that I feel like, I feel really blessed to know that I started my career out doing that so that I can be 25 years later and still feel passionate, still have a drive, still want to do this work and see myself doing it for, you know, the longterm. I just, I have not one day of regret of making the decision to be a social worker. - You know, Stacey, we met, I believe, in 2009. So we've known each other for a very long time. And I remember thinking when I first met you that, oh my goodness, as a supervisor, 'cause I knew you had a team of clinicians, as a supervisor, I saw how much wellness was an important part of your team because of how much you allowed them to know that wellness is a part of social work practice. And you continue to do that, not only as a social work practitioner, but I also see that in the classroom as an educator, right? So I appreciate that. Thank you for standing on those values and continuing that because we need to make sure that students who are in social programs understand that wellness is key. We can't ask somebody to fill somebody else's bucket if their bucket is empty or almost on empty. So thanks for sharing that. So Stacey, we're gonna pivot. We're gonna pivot to talk about ethics and ethical dilemmas, right? - That's my jam. - Yes, so Stacey, you are one of our adjunct faculty here at UNC Charlotte in the School of Social Work. You've been with us for a number of years teaching a variety of courses. One of the courses that I feel like you are, you just not only have so much experience, but I would look at you as our expert in is our Social Work 3199, our Ethics Professionalism and Communication course. So share with us a bit about a time. Share with us about a time when you face an ethical dilemma as a social worker. What were the circumstances? How did you approach the situation? And finally, what did you learn from that experience? - There are so many. - Too many to count. - Too many to count. But one that I think about, you know, those, gosh, those early experiences are so humbling, you know, when you're just out there. So I was doing school-based therapy at the time, right? And in my mind, I've done school-based therapy in different places, in different states. And something that I always thought should be a core component of school-based therapy, even though it's therapy in the school, you can't leave out the family. - Right. - And including the family. My kids don't live in bubbles, so. And it was just really important to me to connect with the families of children that I was working with. And this particular family, I was working with siblings, two of them. And in addition to working with them at school, I would go out to the home and start building a relationship with their parent. And that was helpful because I felt like I supported them with how to support their children. So the things that we were doing, they were aware and they learned, you know, some different things that they could do as parents to be able to continue the work that we were doing at school. So got to know this family really well, this parent really well. It wasn't easy initially, but they became more and more comfortable with me. And I felt like we had a really strong therapeutic alliance, which ultimately was helpful for the kids. And they did better. Treatment was great. The things that their mom was looking for to get help with initially, that happened. So she was happy with the services. And we, I remember our last, my last home visit, and we were wrapping up, it was time to discharge. And she said, so this is great. Now that they're no longer working with you, I want to invite you to my Tupperware party. Now I'm dating myself because- (laughing) - And that was Tupperware. - I'm talking about Tupperware, yes. You know you had some. - You talking about Tupperware. - You know you had some. (laughing) A container or two. But yeah, she was having a Tupperware party and for, you know, so I mean, I guess I should quickly clarify a little bit. So Tupperware was like a brand of what? - Container. - Containers, really, right? - A food storage container. - Food storage containers, yes, they were really good. - For those of you born before 20. (laughing) - La, la, la, la, yeah, then. And so in my head, I'm thinking, I can't go to her Tupperware party. And I have to clarify, so there's an important piece that I left out with this. So where they lived was a part of this apartment comp, they were in this apartment complex that was right down the street from the school. And so probably the majority of my caseload lived in this apartment complex. - That vicinity area. - And yes, yes. So there were four apartments in each building. In her building alone, I had two other families that I was working with, okay? And so it just, like even just thinking about continuing relationships beyond discharge, right? Okay, so I'm trying to think about, okay, what do I say? How do I say it? But I explained to her that I would not be able to attend her Tupperware party. And because we were wrapping up treatment that actually doesn't give me the permission or opportunity to be friends with her. I would, under different circumstances, would love to be able to connect with you, hang out with you, attend your Tupperware parties, but I'm not able to, and that's what I had in the moment, like that's all I had. And I'm sure it wasn't even that, if I could go back and really hear what I said. But everything changed after that. She was not happy, I think she was hurt, right, of course. And after that day, I still had to go back to that building because I had two other families I was working with. And so it's already hard enough with children, especially when you're working in the school, when they see you post discharge. But there's some parameters and boundaries around that, that are structural, you can still talk with them, joke with them, acknowledge them. All the things, but I went back to the building to work with my other families and she actively refused to speak to me, actively refused to acknowledge me, was not happy at all. And I'm so, so I really, I felt horrible. I felt horrible. The reason why it wasn't because my feelings were hurt, it wasn't even about me. For me, it was because I didn't do my due diligence. I didn't do my due diligence in having that conversation upfront and explaining, like, this is what this is, this is what this looks like. I could not have expected her to know that already. I should not have expected. And it wasn't even that, I don't think I expected she knew that already. I just don't even think I thought about it, to be honest. So I guess I'm going a little bit, you know, into like, what would I have done differently? - Yeah, 'cause that's my follow-up. Looking back, what would you have done differently? Would you have changed it? Would you have gone? - Yeah. - Yeah, what were the influences that helped you with that decision? - (sighs) Yeah, so one, I had a phenomenal supervisor at my job. - We're gonna talk about that soon. That's my next question about supervision. - So she helped me really process through that without telling me, like, I really had the opportunity to just kind of process through it and think about, okay, what were my missteps? What was really going on here? - That, in addition to thinking about the significance of boundaries in our work. And long-term, like, Stacey, what? It mattered that I was doing these home visits and working with people in their natural environments. That mattered. That's not the same, as you know, as working with someone in your office. - There's a sense of being comfortable when we work with folks in our own offices versus going out to an environment that isn't ours. - Exactly. - It's their environment. - It's their environment. So if, you know, I had to really kind of think about it, well, you know, I was doing my job because I was able to get, or she didn't start out that way. I was able to get her to a point where she felt comfortable with me. She felt, and that was part of the work. That was it, you know, and our relationships hope to influence behavior, right? But I did not, I was not as careful with one, the power that they gave me, but also not as careful with the gift. - Talk about that a bit more. - I think it's a gift for people to open up to us and let us in. And allow us to be a part of their journey. That's a gift. That's a gift, because there's nothing that says, like, they don't have to, to have that level of vulnerability with another person. And it also meant vulnerability for me as well, right? Because again, I'm on their turf, I'm in their environment. And so being that delicate, the relationship can be very delicate. And we need to take care of that. We need to take care of that. And then you mentioned the importance of human relationships before, but that's one of our core values for a reason. And I think everything starts there. Everything that we do goes from that, from understanding the importance of that. So really just kind of thinking about how we ask families to open up, allow themselves to be vulnerable. We get in there, we connect, and then boom, we're out. - We are going on to the next family, the next individual, et cetera. So how do we help to value and honor the work that was done in a way that that connection that was made stays with them? It can stay with us as well, but we also have some closure with the professional relationship, because there's not a way to, all of a sudden, even if we wanted to be, just become friends with all the clients and families that we've ever worked with, then I might've been able to convince myself that I could do it. But now when I think about it, like how, how would that be possible with all of the families that I've worked with thus far? And so that actually, that was very pivotal for me, because I think about that every single time I'm meeting someone for the first time. And I'm already thinking about at the beginning, what do I need to do now to make sure that I am being intentional with the care of this relationship so that when it does come to an end, it comes to an end in a good place, with them in a good place and seeing value in that and understand the way that I do that, the way I go about that is being very clear and transparent about, you know, this is what, this is the nature of our relationship. These are some of the limitations with it. This is, these are all of the wonderful things that we're able to do. And, you know, there's a few things that we're not. - And all that plays into being ethical, being professional and offering communication that is not only meaningful, but upfront, right? And intentional, so back to that intentionality. So Professor Anderson, I have that ethical dilemma that I want to share with you real quick, and I want to see if you think what I did was the right or wrong thing. - Is it real? - It is real, what are you talking about? All right, I did share this. I also teach social work 3199, which is the ethics, professionalism and communication course. And I shared a video with the class and shared this experience with them and left a cliffhanger. And I said, I'll post the next video on what I did next time. So, I was a young Padawan social work, licensed clinical social worker. So that's a Star Wars reference for some of y'all who enjoy Star Wars. Just freshly, you know, licensed and I was gonna go out and change the world. And I was hired at the time as a Spanish speaking therapist because I'm bilingual, I speak Spanish and English. And at that time, there were several schools in the community that were seeing an increase in their Spanish speaking students and families. So I was doing school-based therapy. So I'm working with this family at an elementary school, great kiddo, great family, challenging circumstances, building a good relationship. And it was probably around the fall time. So around right now, good weather, nice weather, not a lot of rain, and it was a teacher workday. And so similar to the story you shared, I also had to do home visits, right? Because the school was closed or we weren't able to do anything at school. So I went to their apartment complex. And as I'm walking around, it's probably nine o'clock in the morning, eight, 30, nine o'clock, and I'm navigating my way through the apartment complex. And I smell what is an aroma of just, it's good food, somebody is cooking. I'm thinking to myself, man, somebody is cooking up something yummy. And it took me back to my childhood growing up and remembering some of the things my mom cooked, right? That aroma, it's just stuck with me. And then I get closer to the door. I realized, oh no, the aroma is coming from this door. This is my, you know, the kiddo I'm working with and this family, this is where they live. I came during breakfast time, right? I said, oh, oh, I probably need to leave, but I need to let them know that I'll come back another time. So I knock on the door and the grandmother opens the door. That sweet, sweetest person in the world. Just, she would walk to the school whenever I was asking for family members to come and meet with me and meet with the kiddo. She would be one of the first ones there all the time. So she opens the door and she recognized me and said, yes, doctor, they would call me doctor, even though I would say, I'm not a doctor. They say, doctor, doctor, come in, come in, come in. And I was like, oh no, I'm so sorry in Spanish. You know, I'm so sorry, disculpa. You're eating breakfast. I'll come back later or I'll come back another day. And she said, no, no, beng, beng, benga, come in. This is for you. It's by the state. It's like, oh no, yes. And it was a spread. Like I'm talking about authentic like food. And so I mean, I was, even though it probably took less than a second for me to make a decision, I felt like it was an eternity because as I looked into the apartment, I saw not only grandmother, parent was there, uncles, aunts, right? So this particular family had, the kiddo's uncles worked around town with Unconstruction crews, right? They're getting up at 5.30 in the morning, 6 a.m. they're out, especially on a beautiful day, they're working. They were there. They did not go to work. They knew I was coming because it had to do with their nephew. And so they committed their time to do, to be there. What am I to do, right? So I had a choice, I had to make a choice. Now, for ethical dilemma experts out there, some of you may disagree with what I did. And I did go to supervision afterwards. - Well, well, Roger, I have this question for you though. Sorry to interrupt, but- - Professor Anderson. - Should you state what the ethical dilemma is? - My ethical dilemma was to quote the class, the great rock group class, "Should I stay or should I go?" Right, that was my ethical dilemma. Should I stay and partake in this incredible spread of food? Or do I say, "I can't do this. I'm so sorry. You know, I can't break bread with y'all. I must leave." That was the ethical dilemma. - Yeah. - So, and I actually that morning already ate breakfast. - So there's that. - So I could have said, you know, I'm so full. I can't, even if I went in and said, "You know what, I'll come in, but I can't eat." All these things again, who are going through my mind. So Stacey and Professor Anderson, what do you think I did? This interview has been split into two parts. Be sure to subscribe to the socially engaged podcast to receive a notification when part two is released to find out if Stacey guessed what Roger did.