Code of Care: Ethics That Shape Social Work (Guest Stacey Anderson)- Part 2

(upbeat music) - Welcome back to the socially engaged podcast for part two of a two part series where we'll hear if Stacey guessed correctly what Roger did. - Well, so here's the thing. I love that example. Your example was like, I feel like it was way better than mine. - Oh no. - But here's the thing though. Like I actually, and I think when we're getting consult, this matters. I actually, I know you as a social worker. I know you as a human. And we can never separate that ever. Like we can't, you know? Like we, all of the things about us, we bring to social work. And then there's the ethics. And so I think that all of that plays into our dilemmas as well. But I think that you, I won't go into the reasons why I think this. I'm just gonna say, I believe I would be super shocked if you did not stay and eat with them. - Not only did I stay and eat with them, that was there for about three hours (laughing) because it was not only was the food magnificent, but the engagement part of it was, was, you know, at the heart of everything. Yeah, I stayed and I ate. I mean, even though I ate breakfast, I ate more. And I left not only with a full belly, but I also left with an even deeper commitment from that kiddos family to be more involved, not only in the treatment process, but just in his day-to-day, right? It was worth it. Now, again, there could be folks who think like, "Wow, I can't believe you went in there." Crosses so many boundaries. There was a reason for that. I knew from a cultural perspective, 'cause at that moment I decided, I thought to myself, you know, if that were my mom or if that were my family, and I know how much food means to the family, and I know how much breaking bread together means, like relationship building, by saying, no, I would have totally unraveled any of the work that I, that family and I had worked on together. I'm pretty sure it would have just unraveled. Oh yeah, oh yeah. And I just made my decision, you know, 'cause I know how important that, that family spent the entire morning making something, right, for somebody who was supporting someone they loved and cared about. And if I just said, no, that would have broken our trust, and it definitely would have broken their hearts, I think. Yeah, yeah. So I stayed, I had a great time, and it was, yeah. Talk about building a therapeutic alliance. You honored that family, like that was honoring them, and respecting them, honoring their time, right? Honoring their resources. I think about, think about that all the time with a lot of our families, they may not have a lot, but when they're willing to share what they have, you know, honoring that, that's significant. And the way that you showed up was your client there? Yes. Was it just your client was there? So your client got to see that. Like there, it told, I mean, I know we're not gonna take this on and on and on, but I'm confident that it taught you so much about this family, that the three hours that you spent, even though you probably couldn't build for all three hours (laughs) We won't get into that piece of it. Right, right, right. That was a long time ago. You learned so much that you could use later. That is so important, and I think that the cultural piece of that can't be overlooked. So, and I'll move on to our next question after this, but you're absolutely right. So by engaging with different family members, not only did I learn about them and their connection in relation to this kiddo that I was working with, but they were willing to be part of their treatment plan process, right? So now we have allies. We have folks who we can thread into that process to enhance this individual's progression, right? So that was, there's so many different, you know, variables here that I said, no, I wouldn't have gotten that opportunity to do. - Sure. - You know, for those avenues to open up and for this kiddo to thrive, not because of me, but because this kiddo saw how involved his family was at that moment. And so because they invested, he invested, right? So I didn't do anything. It was actually all of them. - So did you have students who were like, you shouldn't have? (laughing) - Well, see, so I posted it to have a couple of students who did respond for the most part. Everybody was, some students did consider the cultural component, right? So, but, right, even if, and it's okay for there to be the disagreement of, hey, you should have done that. Like that's totally fine. That was the decision I made. - I love that you said that. I love that you said that because that's what we come up against in ethics. If it was as easy as this is the right answer and this is the wrong answer, it wouldn't be a dilemma. (laughing) - Words of wisdom from Professor Anderson. Yes, exactly. So Stacey, let's talk a little bit about supervision and peer consultation. What role do supervision and peer consultation play in resolving ethical dilemmas in social practice? How helpful are those supports when facing ethical dilemmas in the field of social work? - Extremely. (laughing) Necessary. Even, I think, again, because we're human, we just, you know, you can't separate it, you can't take it out. We have, even in the process of attempting to resolve an ethical dilemma or even thinking about it, there's so many factors that go into that because we have basically, what makes it a dilemma is, again, not right or wrong, but that we have competing values. So we have competing values from our code of ethics. That's like, if I do this, like this is important, if I do this, then this is what's gonna be the fallout. But if I do this other thing, then this other thing over here is gonna be the fallout. And both things sometimes can be good. It's just a matter of like, what's the one? What's the one that takes precedence? What is that? And so being able to see that on my own, I may not see all the things. I may not see or recognize my own bias. That could be due to a number of different things. It could be due to season of life, right? The season of life that I'm in, where there might be some similar things going on with me that's going on with my client. And, you know, so that's kind of shading my view or could be culturally, like maybe I'm over identifying or not empathetic enough, you know, or lacking competence or like there's so many things there. And I think the objectivity of someone else is beneficial and helpful in that. From a supervision standpoint, if it's someone who's supervising you on the job, literally that's their job. Use them, use them as a resource. Chances are really good that they have some experiences that maybe you haven't even had yet. So they might be able to give feedback based on being able to relate to the situation that you're going through or even being able to see some things because maybe they've experienced it from that standpoint. Peer consultation, I share with supervisees. - It's a beautiful thing. - It is a beautiful thing. We, I know that. I know that because I would, I oftentimes lean on you for that support. I think it's important as social workers to have someone in your life professionally that you can go to with an ethical dilemma and you know they're gonna tell you what you need to hear and not just what you wanna hear. So, and that might take some time and that might take some work, but I tell supervisees that at the very beginning of our work together, so they can start, they can be looking out for whoever that person is gonna be that hopefully you can keep and they don't have to be in the same city, they don't have to be on the same job, they don't have to, but just someone who knows a little bit about you that may be very important, that can kind of see when maybe you're not being objective or when. - Someone who can call you out. - Someone who can call you out. - Basically. - And you're not gonna follow apart as a result because you know they truly care about you doing this work and they care about the work. So, matching and I try to intentionally, in general, surround myself with social workers who are just as passionate about the work as I am. But for that peer consultation, it's like, you know, I need you to care. I need you to care as much as I do because if you don't have that, then the client gets the short end of the stick. Like I want you to be looking out for them just as much as, you know, I'm trying to, when you're helping me to resolve this dilemma. And so, yes, I think it's extremely important. - Something I ask folks whenever I am reaching out 'cause I'm missing something. I'll say, I have a strong feeling I'm missing something. I need to tell you, I need to share information with confidentiality, right? But I feel like I might be missing something. Can you give me your perspective? Like help me out because I might be overthinking it, I might be underthinking it and I trust this individual that guide me in the right direction, right? Back in the day when I was doing school-based therapy, we did have a team of clinicians who would get together once a week, pretty much. Just the staff cases. I think that's important. Like getting together with others, whether it's within your realm, your agency organization or peers outside of where you work. Like you mentioned, doesn't have to be someone or folks who live where you are but have different experiences and exposure to social work. And it is a beautiful thing. It is good to know that there are people who care about this work just as much as you do. And who will provide the information that you need to know, not what you wanna hear. And it's two very different things. So we're gonna pivot again one more time as we continue our journey on ethics, right? 'Cause again, we may have students, we may have professionals out there listening or just folks who are curious. Why do you believe learning about ethics and professionalism is such a vital part of social work education and practice? Can you share how these principles have guided you in your work or helped you navigate difficult situations? - That's a good question. I think I truly believe it's so important because we come into this work because we are helpers. We want to help people. We want to serve. There's, I really don't, I don't know any social workers who didn't already embody that prior to becoming a social worker, you know? But we need the ethics and the professionalism because that's what separates us from anybody else who wants to help people. Lots of people in this world want to help people and it's beautiful and it's a wonderful thing. And our ethics give us some guidelines on how to do that without causing harm. And that's huge. That's really significant. If I did not know anything about the importance of, all of our core values, the importance of human relationships, competence, integrity in our work, understanding that all people have dignity and worth regardless of their quote unquote behavior or their quote unquote problem or what they've done before, how they think about things. Without sort of those guiding principles, fighting for social justice, all of those things, it really shapes our work and how we do it. I can, I have, can I give a quick, super quick example? Absolutely. Of I was, there was a time where I was working on an intensive in-home team and I-- For those real quick, just to-- Oh yeah. We have to give some context, right? So intensive in-home teams, exactly what it says. It's intensive and it's a team and they're working in homes. In the homes. Right, so, but it was an experience, I know, because I was also privy to that experience as well. And my goodness. Yeah. This is really, you know, we're really doing some walking down memory lane because today, Roger, I think there's so many more opportunities for LCSWAs and I think there was like a time where that was pretty much it. Pretty much. Like you worked in intensive in-home until you got your hours. Pretty much like a two year period of time. Like you are digging it. On call 24/7. But continue. But yes, so this was actually, I was new. I was, this was one of my first jobs when I moved to Charlotte. And so I was new to Charlotte, new to just life in North Carolina. You guys said North Carolina. North Carolina. Sorry about that. And this, we got this new family and we were going out to meet the family. So we're doing an intake. And I was super nervous, super, super nervous. Like we didn't have intensive in-home in Indiana. Like that, something new. This is some new stuff. And we go out and I was so nervous because it was, the client was a male 14 years old and had just gotten discharged from a psychiatric residential treatment facility. And I didn't know what to expect. And we were helping with the transition. And you know, making sure that he stayed stable in the home, all the things or whatever. But I didn't know what to expect. And I just, in my head, I was thinking, oh, this is gonna be so hard. How am I gonna build a relationship? How are we, you know, he's not gonna wanna be bothered with any of this. He's not gonna wanna be bothered with me. And this parents looking at me. Now, I have to say this, 'cause this is important. For a super long time, as a younger person, I had what I would call a baby face. So I looked all of 13, okay? (laughing) So I was always cognizant of that and working with parents because I always felt like they were judging me. They thought I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't have kids at the time, exactly, exactly. - You're not married or whatever, like. - All the things. And so all of this is going through my mind, making me on edge, you know, 'cause of course, it's about me. And I go in with my mind made up that, you know, I'm gonna be confident, you know, I know what I'm doing. I'm gonna show this parent, I know what I'm doing. And we go in and we're talking with her and she's saying, well, so-and-so's back in his bedroom. And I don't think he's gonna come out. We're sitting in her living room in her apartment. And so, of course, you know, pops into my head. Oh, he's back in the bedroom. Well, I'll just go get him. - Rolled up your sleeves, let's go. - So I rolled up my sleeves and I marched back to the bedroom and, you know, just chatting him up, started talking with him. Anyway, he did come out. He came out to the living room and we talked, did our thing, finished the intake, developed the treatment plan, all that. And I leave feeling pretty darn good about myself. - Head up high, shoulders back. - Yes, yes, yes, until I got to work the next day. And the whole team was called into the office, my supervisor, who was an LCSW. And she says, you know, this parent called the child worked with last night and she complained. She made a complaint and said that you, she did not give you permission to go to her son's bedroom and you went there, you know, on your own or whatever. Anyway, she did not want me back in her home. And my supervisor at the time was just kind of like, so she shares all this and she's just like, she's over exaggerating. I know that, you know, you meant no harm. And she went on to like make all of these excuses for me. Now, I haven't said a word at this point, I'm just listening. Inside I'm crumbling, I'm devastated. Not just about the complaint, but I immediately recognized my error, right? And, but then I'm getting from my supervisor. You're almost kind of like, it's okay. - You were getting an affirmation that what you did was for the right. - Right, right. And so there was this cognitive dissonance going on for me. Like, but it's not right. Like I disrespected her, that was not okay. I disrespected her home. Like this is her home. She gets to tell me what to do in her home. It's just because she's getting a service from us. That does not mean I get to cross all of these boundaries because she should be so grateful that I'm there. So I'm understanding all of this. And I share that example for two reasons. One, one to just kind of show like how our ethics, like it's so important for our ethics to guide us. Because if I was thinking about the importance of human relationships, right? And building a relationship with this family, not just doing a quote unquote good job with this client and showing this parent, like how great I was of a social, that was all about me. That had nothing to do with the family that I was working with. But the importance of human relationships, but in addition to that, just respect, just respect. Like why should she want me back in her home? Honestly, why? It does not mean that you're not a good parent because you need support with your child. It takes a village, I need that with my own children. And that's not how I honored her. That's not how I showed up for her in that moment. So it does that, but the other piece of that is, I think this particular example shows the importance going back to a supervision. - Yes. - Quality supervision that guides us, that calls us out when we need it. When we're in those of us listening who are in positions where we're supervising other social workers, like that's a part of our job. Don't tiptoe around that, don't hold back, be kind. You can be compassionate, but teach, hold folks accountable because what they're doing impacts clients and that should be our number one priority. And so not getting that, like I had to, that stands out for me to help me in supervision because I don't ever want another social worker who have had the opportunity to learn something from me or learn something from what they're doing and I didn't seize it. So they don't and they make that mistake all over again. - Right. Yeah, I think it's important, thanks for sharing that. It's important for organizations and agencies to recognize how pivotal supervision is and supporting that supervisor, whether it's through training, right? Or whether it's through not, I don't want to say burdening, but not giving them so much administrative duties that the supervision piece of it, which is their job, right? Supervision is key for that clinical supervisor, not that they would on purpose, but then their supervision becomes diluted because they just have all these other things going on that the organization's requiring them to do or the agency's requiring them, does that make sense? So that's really key and I'm not saying that, I'm not naming organizations or anything, but I just, I would challenge organization leaders and agency leaders to look at their clinical team and look at their clinical supervisors and how much are they really doing from the clinical supervision piece of it? And yeah, I just think that's really important. It's really important. - Roger, can I say something about that? - Absolutely. - I just see in that, I know, okay. So I don't know how many folks know that there was a revision to our Code of Ethics in 2021, right? And that revision came from social workers, like we all know in 2021, there was this big old pandemic thing going on. And social workers got together and were like, "Hey, like we are in this, we're doing the work." And then some, and we need support. Like this is not support and taking care of ourselves is an optional, like it's an ethical issue. And they were actually able to get language put in. And we can all do this, we can all go to the delegate assembly and we can all like do the same exact thing that they did. But they added language around self-care, professional self-care that did not exist prior to that, which is amazing to me. But so significant and important because now we have language in our Code of Ethics that basically says like it's not optional for you to take care of yourself. Not only that, this is the part that I really, really love. There's a whole section in practice settings in our Code of Ethics that speaks to the work of supervisors, social work supervisors. Everything that you said is backed up in our Code of Ethics because it's saying, "Hey, if you supervise other social workers, you need to ensure that you are creating work environments, that you are supporting and advocating for work environments that ensure social workers can take care of themselves so that they can do all the things that they need to be able to do for their clients." It is not optional. So those of us who are in positions to supervise, that's a part of it. If you are running a practice or you're running a business or and you have social workers working for you, you don't get to just focus on how much productivity is there gonna be, like you're mandated by our Code of Ethics to actually intentionally put some balance in the work that they're doing. So I just wanna say that even for students to think about, please don't have the assumption that if you're doing social work, it has to be hard and it has to be painful and you have to be overworked and you don't get any relief or support and that's just the way that it is. No, no, it's not just the way that it is. And you and I have had the opportunity of working together and forming a support for one another. You can do that. You have options. You don't have to work in silo. Create the environment. Be a part of creating the environment that you want to thrive in, that you want to see. So I just had to... - We've read about Stacy. - Got out there. - You know, this has been such a fun, engaging and important conversation that we've had, not only about ethics, but the importance of relationships, the importance of intentionality. It's the importance of connection, right? And the importance of humility, right? When we work with individuals, we enter their environment, their homes, it's not about us and it should never be about us. Even when we're working in our settings, in our office buildings or in our offices, it should always be about the individuals who are giving us a gift, like you said, giving us a gift into their world, into their life. And we should always honor that by being social works who are practicing in an ethical and professional way. So thank you for spending time with us, Stacy. So I'm gonna pivot one more time, we're gonna do something fun. All right, Stacy, this segment, I like to call the fab five and five seconds. Stacy, yes, you get to share with us five things that they're just your top five things in under five seconds. Stacy, do you think you can handle that? - I don't think I can, actually. That's a lot of pressure, five seconds. - That is not a lot of pressure. I'm gonna count us down. When I say go, you name us your five favorite things. All right, five favorite things by Stacy Anderson. Let's go, one, two, three, go. - Favorite, I mean, my family, social work, books, I am a nerd, warm weather, you don't like the fall? - No. - Okay, last one. Oh, gosh, dessert. - Oh, wow. So, and those aren't in a particular order, all right, but what is your favorite dessert? - Oh, I, okay, this is not a cheat, and I promise. I don't have a favorite. - Oh, okay. - Because I just like bring it on. All the things, oh my gosh, and new things, yes, like I'll try new things, I'll make new things, I love baking. - What's a new thing that you've tried, a new dessert you've tried? - So, thank you for asking that question, because a friend of mine is having a very laid back informal wedding reception, and I bake a lot, she enjoys what I bake, and she asked me to make her wedding cake for her and her husband because they have, they both like cake and cheesecake, so she asked me if I could make something with a combination of the two. So, I've been practicing all summer, 'cause I don't make wedding cakes, okay, let's just be clear. I've been practicing all summer to try and figure out, like to create something that they would enjoy and like, and they've been tasting these cakes all summer, and I finally found it, and the wedding is Saturday. So, I'm going to be making a strawberry crunch cheesecake, so it'll be three layers, the top two layers will be strawberry cake with the middle layer being cheesecake, cream cheese frosting in between the layers, and then covered in cream cheese frosting with a strawberry crunch covering the outside of cake. - Amazing. - Right now, that's my favorite. - That sounds like it should be everybody's favorite. So, you're gonna make me a little round version of that. - Probably, probably, yeah. - You heard it here, everybody. I am going to taste this amazing delicious cake coming soon. So, Stacey, for folks who are interested in learning more about you and your work as a clinical supervisor, how can they reach you? - Sure, super easy. Stacey Anderson, S-T-A-C-E-Y Anderson with a No. L-C-S-W at gmail.com. - Stacey, thank you once again for joining us today. This has been a fun time, not only spending time with you, but I learn every time I see you, whether it's we're having a conversation over the phone, whether it's we're going out to grab lunch, or just stopping by your classroom. I learn something new. I always learn something new, not only about you, but about social work when I get a chance to see you. So, thank you so much. And for everyone out there, thank you for tuning in to this episode, the very first episode of the "Socially Engaged" podcast. We hope you found inspiration and insight in the stories Stacey shared about real-world social workers who are making a difference every day. From classroom lessons to field experiences and ethical dilemmas that challenge and shape, our practices as social workers, Stacey's journey and other social workers' journeys remind us of the heart and complexity of social work. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with others who are passionate about social work and community care. And as always, stay engaged, stay curious, and keep showing up for the work that matters. Until next time, take care and stay socially engaged. - Thank you, Roger. Thank you for having me. That was so much fun. Of course, it's always fun when I get to hang out with you. - Same. - And a special thank you to the Center for Teaching and Learning and the School of Professional Studies, and a particular shout out to Alex and John who are making us look good and sound good as well. Thanks, y'all.