Coaching Champions : The Playbook for High Performance Living | Dan Lawrence | S3 Ep02

and Lawrence, welcome to the Without Limits podcast. - Nice having me, Ollie, look at the fours of this. - Me too, mate, this has been a long time coming. We obviously spent some time in Dubai, it feels like back in 2025 or maybe early this year, and we tried to bring together a podcast on UAE soil, but it wasn't to be, I know you're a very busy man, so it's been good to lock you down. This podcast is all gonna be around high performance. I don't think there's anyone better qualified to talk about it. You experience with the athletes, the CEOs, a high-powered execs, but also the way you have shown up over the last two decades. There's someone that's proved longevity in this career as a coach, there's someone that I've known and been fond of for many, many years, so the opportunity to sit down, understand a little bit more about you personally, but then also about the practice that you pass on to the people you work with, it's gonna make for a great episode. Before we go any further, probably the one question that's a slight curve for you, maybe, is what does Without Limits mean to you? There is no ceiling, anything is possible. There are no limits, and I think it's gotta be contextual to the individual, and we can all see where everyone else does on the social media and everything else out there, which we can get inspiration from, absolutely, but I think you've gotta start where you stand, set clear goals and just go all in on those goals, and be inspired by others, but don't be influenced too much by others. For me, that is Without Limits. - Love that. You're someone that, if someone lands on your social media page, people will get a good feel for who you are pretty quickly, right? It's a level of consistency, a level of and kind of intentional living, and messaging that's been ever present, ever since, like I said, I followed you in this, we're talking, it must be at least 10 years since I've known you. Who are you away from social media? - It's a great question to lead with it, as my head of operations keeps saying, why are you not showing the real down, and if I lead with this on, and maybe show a bit of vulnerability out of the gate, is, I am the high performance guy, that is my life, there is no BS without, I live in British, as I know you do in body those behaviors, not just for six months, but for our 20-odd years. But with the social media side of things, I struggle to show my real personality outside of being this high performance guy, and it's a bit of a battle and type of war, and I'll be very honest here is, I work across different verticals with the pro athletes, and the biggest athletes on the planet, and that's always made me feel like, I've got to be super, super professional and dialed in, because the margins are so small at that level, I can't be a bit of a joker. But then there is a bit of a fun side, so I would say outside of that, and I struggle to get that across to your question specifically. There's not huge life outside of my business, and what I do, so what you see is what you get, but I would love to showcase a little bit more fun and energy, and who I truly am on social media channels, because those who do know me, do see a slightly different side. I think there's a really good insight, because I do think, and I've kind of been on that journey myself, humanizing people who are perceived and rightly so, because perception is reality in this case, to be such high performers, and be on it the whole time, do have elements of self-doubt, can show fun, or have enjoyment, and fun away from work, where they're much up serious on social media. And it's something that actually, I think I mentioned to you when we won that run and Dubai, as I mentioned earlier, I saw a different side of you there. It wasn't necessarily a vulnerable side, but it was just a side that's different to social media, because on social media you have the brand, and who you represent, and I think it's nice for people to understand that whilst we are going to talk about high performance, like an element of high performance is knowing yourself, and also knowing where you might have areas for improvement, and like I say, being vulnerable isn't necessarily a bad thing or a weakness. You are the high performance guy, you've been it now for a long period of time, but why is the high performance so important to you, and why is so passionate about it? - For me, Sarah thing is the glue that holds everything together. I wouldn't know how else to show up, and it's my true authentic self. I struggle if I haven't slept properly, haven't eaten well, haven't bought my best to every conversation, and I take pride on that, as I want to leave every conversation with the other person where they're better off, and I don't know the answer. I'll try and find the answer, and I'll try and add value. And for me, that is high performance. I don't get enjoyment and satisfaction out of doing things that are away from that, everyone is. Funny enough, I went out on Saturday for the first time in, for God knows how long, my first drop of alcohol this year with friends in London, as we shoot this, and had a great time. It was great to catch up with friends who haven't seen for a long time. Oli, my headspace after that for three days, was wild, and I think sometimes you've got to scratch the itch, absolutely, but you've also then got to say, yeah, this is why I live and breathe what I do, because I feel so clear and cognitively sharp when I eat well, sleep well, train hard, and manage my workloads, you know. - Now is that sort of, but the byproducts of nature and being around, or also nurturing being around some of these high performance, in your career over the last 18 years, you've worked with some real high performance. So you're probably getting the rub, even though you coach high performance, you're getting someone return there. There's probably quite a lot of synergy and give and take, or is it something that's kind of happened in the past where you become passionate about it because there's been an inflection point where you go, actually, my life is on this path, but this isn't conducive with who I want to be. For people that are sort of, how old are you, Dan? - 37. - Yeah, so my sort of age, for people who are further behind, necessarily this far down the track with it, one of those things that kind of maybe happened in your life that went, this is the path that I'm about, is it professional sport, is this for many people? - I think so, yeah, pro sport was definitely one. I've got to bring my best self to every conversation. You can't be half-assed, you know? You've, the margins are so small, and I've got to be dialed in, and as I say, giving as much value to those individuals, and I fully immerse myself in that for, probably a decade and a half at the highest level of pro sport. I think George Groves 2012 was the big break, we'll say, yeah, 13 years ago, now as we shoot this. So I chose, yeah, I chose that very early on, thinking of my younger self going out a little bit more, but even then, Ollie, I'm talking like once a month, twice a month, it was never something that interests me. So I have always been high performance, and that then, I suppose, tightens up as you get older and really dial in, find out who you truly are, and also how others would want to perceive you, and how you want to be perceived. So, yeah, that's me, and it is my true authentic self, and I just try and show I hope every single day. That's my biggest fear as well, Ollie, staying the same. That really scares the hell out of me. I love growth and continuous improvement. So, yeah, that's really the driver. - Segway, actually, we were out for dinner last night, there's a lad that's come over 24-year-old, it was his birthday yesterday, he's come home from Holland, and he came to a challenge, he's one of our athletes, and he asked me, you know, what, what, how are we articulate? But it was something that, you know, what keeps you going with it? And I said the same thing, let's stay in the same, scares me, that level of like decay, if you're not progressing, it scares me. You know, as someone who has been, you know, lived and breathed our high performance, where do you think people sometimes go wrong with it? Yeah, where do you think people go wrong with high performance? I think we need to, what I'm trying to do here is pre-frame what we believe high performance to be, and it's going to be quite subjective for different people, context dependent, we're talking about not settling and always looking to progress, and your version of success will look very different to mine, and someone who's maybe 20 just starting out or someone who's trying to find high performance later in life at 45-50 years old. Where do you think people go wrong with it? - I'll start by saying what I believe high performance is, and actually reframe and say higher performance, something has got to be as you said, contextual to the individual. You're chasing a higher state, you're chasing improvements every single day. We know that, so Dave Brelsford, James Clare, whoever shouted about it first, the 1% better every day, he was a 37x improvement over the course of a calendar year. So it doesn't need to be this night and day shift of going from zero to hero to quickly. So start where you stand, and just simply chase small wins on a daily basis to reach a higher level of performance contextual to you. I'll take it a step further, and you know, with our business, we have four pillars, training, nutrition, recovery, and mindset. And we're in a world where we're chasing these small wins, the cherry on top of the cake, if you like. A lot of people forget about the cake in the first place, the training, the nutrition, the recovery, and the mindset. If you focus on those four things, you will get closer to where you need to go. And what I mean by that is, you know, people chasing ice bars, infrared saunas, hypervary chambers, which absolutely we all use. But they're only having four hours sleep and night. They're not really understanding what macronutions are. They don't really get why protein is important and essential for growth. So I feel like they're missing the trick. So I think taking things back to a simple level and then really breaking a nerve, you're getting the wheels turning, building consistent habits around those four pillars is smart. And then once you have that, once you have those habits in place, you can then start looking at the secret sauce and all these small things, the cherries, if you like, to put on top of the cake. Yeah, it's a really strong message. And it's great that, you know, one of us are kind of retreading that ground if the fundamentals being super important. Well, last Christians have sort of set the scene here for you personally before we go into the journey of what I perform as his mate, maybe for other people. I think in this modern day and age, people are looking for high performance. I think at any age, through social media, we're inspired by people who are achieving, who are successful, and everyone's kind of looking for the marginal gains. Everyone's got an ice bath, or they've got a gym membership, and then they're getting a meal prep service. They may have a coach. They've got the books, the podcasts, et cetera. You must have been a big outlier 20 years ago, with this sort of mentality, you know, someone who doesn't drink, doesn't go out, maybe involved with sports teams or in social circles, but thinks very differently. How, what was that like back then? Yeah, there's definitely been a huge shift. I think now people are embodying those principles a lot more. And earlier on, it was definitely some pushback. I think even four, five years ago, it was deemed cool to sit at home on a Saturday, get a take away, have a couple of glasses of Coke or cans of Coke. And now people frown upon that. It's gone completely 180. Whereas now people like people are going to the gym, people are even doing meetings on a paddle call or a Barry's Boomer. Sorry, I shouldn't mention that on here. And like that's the norm, you know. I live in Dubai and it's such a wellness and health conscious place. You've got Kite Beach and all these running tracks. And for me, it's so pleasing. You've got people of all walks of life, all ages. You know, there's people there 70 years are going for walks with their friends and having a catch up. Whereas before, that was not the case. So I do believe that wellness health is now cool. And profitable for many. So, but irrespective of why people are buying into it, it makes you feel better, it makes you perform better, it makes you look better and it makes you live a better quality of life. So that's why I believe people are buying into it. Yeah, perfect. Well, we've set the scene beautifully for what we're going to come on to talk about. And I think, you know, a big part of your back stories we've alluded to is working with some of the best athletes in the world, high performing CEOs. And I suppose there's like, for someone listening to this, like what are those characteristics and key traits that they have in common? And what can people take from that? I'll give you three, Ollie. So, three key traits of high performer for me from what I've seen over the last 20 years would be resilience, single minded focus, and being relentless. I'll give context. So, resilient to setbacks. And this doesn't need to just be a professional athlete in front of 60,000 people on fight night or a pro football across in the white line. This can be me and you on our day-to-day or anyone listening. We know it's not a linear path. We're going to have to put out a lot of fights throughout the course of the day. And it's how you overcome those. You've got to be resilient to those setbacks. Do you hit a hump in the road? And just, oh, I'm downbeat about it and then take that energy into your next thing. Or do you say, okay, look, it wasn't ideal. Wasn't what I planned. But now I'm going to find a way to overcome that hump. So, you've got to be resilient. Number one, to anything in life. There's double click on resilience and so, for many people living inside that comfort zone, they're never going to expose themselves to the point where there's going to be a setback. So, I suppose the first thing is, and we speak about this quite often in the podcast, the first thing is, put those things in your diary, whether it's training through event, the race, whatever it may be, or even if it's, you know, trying to find your partner in the social situation, like you've got to start to put these goals in place and put a time not associated to it so that you're accountable to try to do it. And it's got to be outside your comfort zone. In the setback then, you know, it's like in sales, right? You want to hit 10,000 knows before you get the yes, because that teaches you how to refine your ability to sell. And this teaches you how you refine your ability to, to perform in high-pressure environments. So, I think that's probably the first one, right? It's like athletes, CEOs, they're in high-pressure environments all the time, they've got to meet a deadline, they've got to have the fight, whatever it may be, for the everyday person, they've got to find what their version of that is. We call it growth moments. You've got to put these growth moments and opportunities to grow in your schedule, like you've alluded to. Otherwise, you just go around in circles. One of my favourite quotes, if one doesn't know to which port one is selling, no one is favourable, you're literally treading water. So, whether that's an outcome or an irritated goal, like you're saying you're doing, is it Sydney and Berlin-Marathons? Hopefully, that's how they're having just ruined the surprise. So, they're very clear. You're putting a lot of pressure on yourself. You're doing it with your buddies, and you're showing up every day to reach a very clear goal. And that's the outcome. Then you reverse engineer, and then you set the process along the way. So, I think, having, you know, gone back to resilience, you've got to have goals that challenge you a little bit, make you feel a little bit uncomfortable, because again, that is a growth moment and opportunities to grow. And so, the next piece that was in it's, what should my mindset be? What should someone's mindset be to the setback or to the failure? Again, using the reference of yesterday. It's slatted, come over, and bless him, right? Come over from Holland. He's going to love the fact he's going to be there time here. Came over to Delif, five hundred pounds and run a sub five-minute mile of the track. We had Sam there, we had Harrison there, myself, Charlie, my mate drove the weights and things over. So, like, he had a full production team, and he was so gassed about that whole situation. And he failed on it, right? And actually, last night, yesterday was his birthday to the day after, and his girlfriend had messaged me saying, "Would you book somewhere for dinner "and I'd love for you to come along, like, as a surprise?" And he was over the moon about the surprise and we'd gone down for steak, and we were talking through the setback, and it was, you know, good hours conversation that would almost end up in, sort of, like, coaching and mentorship to sort of reframe his mind about what would happen. And I think some people see those big moments, a new reference to this earlier about actually seeing your future already, and you've already accomplished it before it's actually happened. And that can sometimes then send people a little bit west when the outcome is as they maybe anticipate it. So, what would a high achiever or a high performer? What should their association be with setbacks? Because you and I are born winners. We want to always win, but that's not always in our control. - We've got three-pronged strategies, reflect review and plan. You can't just brush it off and go, that's not the strategy. It's sitting with it for a moment. I had, so I won't mention who, a Premier League and England football are hard work with, and we were reading Matthew's side black box thinking, don't read it. We got to a hundred pages, and he just went wild and started talking about planes crashing for people who travel as much as I said. It's not good read. And it's funny, because we both said like, how you find in this book, and he said, "Yes, kind of a bit off piece." We said, "Right, let's put it down." The one thing we took away from the book, though, and we coined the term as a black box rule. So, in football, one on one, he's a striker. He's not going to score 10 out of 10, as much as we can hope he can, he's not going to. So, that would be sub-optimal. That's, he hasn't reached his goal quite literally. And what do we do? Do we dwell on that? Or in football, we know within a split second, you could get another chance. So, in that moment, you've got to decompartmentalize and just go again, because quite literally, you could end up with a hat to her, even if you missed your first chance. But then what we do at the end of the game, we have a 24-hour rule, and this is the one thing we took from the book, and we call it the black box rule. You can sit with your thoughts for 24 hours, see what you could have done better, should you have turned quicker, should you have taken extra touch, did you take one touch too many, should you have squared it instead of trying to take the shot from that angle, and then put it in the black box. Because after 24 hours, you're not allowed to think about that again, because those negative thoughts will then feed into the next thing and can stay with you for a long time. I truly believe in how you think is how you feel and can actually impact your life positive and negative. How? So, we've double clicked on resilience, we've talked about these growth moments in the candle, and we spoke about, then if there is a setback, how we can overcome it through a 24-hour window and sit in with those thoughts, then moving forward. The second one in the three was single-minded focus. Single-minded focus. Jimmy Irving talks about this in the defiant ones, when they sold beats to Apple for $3 billion, or whatever it was, and Jimmy Irving fascinates me, how he just gets in rooms and just gets everyone in awe of him and throws beats on to Eminem and Coz, what are you doing, take a load of pictures, and that's his marketing strategy, which was ingenious at the time, and then they got the exit to Apple, and I think it was for that amount of money. He says, "Be like a racehorse." The reason racehorse is where blinkers is, so they don't miss a step. And I love that. You've got to know where you're going. I said it earlier with the boring quote, and having an outcome. Otherwise, you just don't know where you are, but also, don't listen to the noise. We're in a world with social media. There's lots of negativity. I know everything you get, everything I get. I'm sure there's not all positive. There's probably one or two negative things in there. You look at like a con of Ben. There's a lot of negativity for him. How does he deal with that? You've got to have the ability to block out the noise, and that's where the blinkers come in. Forget what's going on left to right. They're just the naysayers. Just keep dialed in towards your goal. You've got to know where you're going, and then just be all in and be single-minded towards that goal. There's obviously certain people that have got thicker skin because they've maybe, again, they've trodden the path before, where they've come under fire or scrutiny from the people left and right. If people are putting that big hairy goal on the vision board for the first time, starting to adjust their behaviors, whether it's their partner, their friends, their social situations, their work colleagues, all of a sudden, you're showing up a little bit different. People will project their insecurities on you, and that can then influence how then you decide to double down on it, or you start to retract. Is there any practices that you can suggest that people maybe go through when those moments do happen to maintain that single and mind its focus? You can't just be aware of your environment. Environment dictates outcomes, and if you've got those around you, and there will be one or two irrespective of the environment, they're saying, "You can't do that. "You can do that. "You're going to fail." If everyone's telling you that, that could be a problem. You may start to have to look at a different environment, and with you running, I'm sure you run with people maybe a little bit ahead of you. I did that. I use to identify as a numb runner, and for me, going back to the environment, I'll give you a real-world example. My friend Jordan used to come to my place in London, pick me up, drive us to Richmond Park, and we used to run, not half marathon, just 5Ks, 10K, built up incrementally, and had some really good conversations when we were running. I wasn't thinking about what I was doing. We had a war mechanism at the end of the run, sat down, had a bougie coffee, and then he dropped me home. No friction, super easy. It's not me getting up at 6.30 in the morning and the pissing down rain and going for a run. So that was the start of the journey. It's having the awareness, again, a key tray of a high performer is awareness. You said it earlier, self-awareness. Know that I want to be able to run. I want to be able to show up and do it consistently. I want to eventually be able to enjoy it. I'm not quite there yet. So I'm going to make this as easy as possible for me, get my gym kit out the night before, my mate's going to pick me up, and learn the hold. I've now actually enjoyed running, it's 10k yesterday, on a call with my head of operations, and yeah, that's my life now. So I think trying to remove friction is really important, and of course, trying to block out the naysayers, but if everyone's trying to pull you down, that's problematic. There's in the 1980s, it was Australia on New Zealand, Tool Poppy Syndrome, where you outgrow your existing environment. And there will be those moments where if you are trying to make a shift and go against the grain, because people listening, it might be that their environment is people going out drinking. It is having takeaways on a regular. It is maybe being a little bit more fixated in their ways, going back to Carol, do x-research, of growth versus fixed mindset. Lots of people are fixed. They don't believe they can grow. They don't believe in neuroplasticity. And others like us, every day we want to grow. Our biggest fear is not growing, is a lack of growth. So that's why we read, that's why we listen to podcasts, and that's why we have powerful conversations. So maybe start trying to shift that environment. If you feel like people are just trying to pull you back down, that's problematic. So powerful. I mean, we're getting some really good stuff here. So we spoke about resilience. We talked about single-minded focus and environment being the thing that dictates everything. So if you find yourself trying to create a single-minded focus and get indistracted or getting influenced by the naysayers or people that are questioning what you're doing, yeah, environment, seek out those people, make sure that all the inputs coming in, what you're absorbing on social media, places that you go and frequent on social situations, wherever it is, create the right environment conducive for success. - I think that's important as well as social media element, because let's look at our time on the phone. We all spend way too much myself included, is maybe it comes to a point where your old self, the person you don't want to be anymore, was looking at all the negative things that aren't aligned with your longer-term goal. Start on following those people. That's the start, because that's what you're going to start feeding in, whether it's conscious or subconscious. So maybe start following OM. Maybe start following these people who are getting after it, and that's going to be inspiring, and that's just going to be front and center every single time now. So I think that's a great point. - It happens on a micro level too, I regularly vet the people that I'm following, and it's not from a place of like, I don't think I can take something from that person or anything personal against that individual. And we're talking at every level, whether it's someone with 500 followers that I followed, because I had a, they worked in the company, for example, when it's not that when they leave the company, I no longer care for them, and I'm just using this example. But that really stayed on my, on my feed or that, like, influencers coming, that's an input. That's another input where I'm seeing something and it can be a distraction. So I do things about regularly vetting all the inputs that are kind of coming in and making sure we really try to stream that in that process, so that you can, there's no room for any distractions that are of any sort of magnitude. - So input leads to output? - Yeah, perfect. Okay, number three, we've done resilience, we've done single monofocus. - Relentless. - Trace. - Similar to single monofocus, you know, you've got to have a goal, you've got to know where you're going, and then you've just got to be relentless towards that goal. You've got to block out the noise, block out the naysayers, and just be all in, Tim Grover's got it as the title of his book, Relentless. And I think, you know, that word I dissociate with high performance is you've just got to be so darned in. And yeah, just be relentless towards that goal. It does start with being clear with the goal though, right? You can't be relentless towards something if you generally don't know where you're going. So I think it does, we need to take a step back and get clear, get clear with the vision, get clear with where you're going, and what truly intrinsically has a deeper meaning and deeper purpose for you. You know, do you want to go and do a half marathon or full marathon for you, or do you just want to do it because you see other people doing it? Both are absolutely fine, because, you know, you might find your deeper purpose throughout that journey. But then you've just got to be all in. John Kavanaugh's got a book who is Conor McGregor's former coach, Win or Learn. And you learn from these moments of, like, defeat and failure. It's only a loss if you don't take any lessons from it. So to your point earlier, like about failing your, you said about your buddy over from Australia, you know, he hasn't failed. He might have failed what he came to achieve, but he's going to take so many lessons from being around you and being around others and seeing the way you probably picked him up in defeat, if you like. And that's going to shape the rest of his future in life. So I think you're getting a goal, getting clear, being single-minded and just going all in, being relentless. You say it all gassed on no breaks, is it? Then the pose. I think I'll see you later. This stuff really fires me up, man. Like the hairs on the back of my neck literally stand up. But there's a level of intensity in the way you talk about it and the way that high performers show up that isn't for everyone, right? Some people hear the word relentlessness. Some people hear the word single-minded focus. And they go to negative conversations. It's obsessive. It's a bit too much. Just over the top, you know, learn to live a little bit. Where's the fun side of it? Is it OK not to want to be a high performer? Yeah, it is. Firstly, I don't want that energy around me, but that's my choice because I'm selective in that. But everyone can do their own thing. Absolutely. Again, high performances can text you to the individual. I think there's negative connotations of the words high performance because the things you've got to be all in, you've got to be relentless, you've got to be single-minded. I'm giving you these three key traits from world champion athletes. NFL Superbowl winners, you know? 1% Unicorn companies, exactly that. And entirely up to you, whether you want to embody them. But these small marginal gains can actually add up over time and I'm sure as we go them throughout the podcast. Yes, I'm being quite intentional with the way I'm delivering here because this is how I deliver on a daily basis with these high performers because they are chasing these small gains to get huge life-changing results. But we will give some simple systems that people can apply day in, day out. So disregard those three traits if you so wish. But just start where you stand and just start small. And you can see huge change within four weeks, eight weeks, 12 weeks, and so on. Just by doing some simple things like daily non-negotiables and winning each day, again, which I'll give context to what that looks like. Yeah, I think that's a really key point as well. Like I've said this many times that people, there are levels to every game that you're playing. Now, you know, people look at in this kind of endurance space that we found ourselves in. There are some real savages out there. And I think everyone does have that savage within them. Everyone has the relentless person within them. They just need to harness where they are right now and as to your point, like what is like the plus one variation of that, what is that one percent? What could a slight variation elevation look like on day number two and layering in those daily habits? So let's talk a little bit about, in fact, before we talk about routines and habits, that's obviously going to be a big part of how we start to formulate what high performance looks like on a daily basis, on a weekly basis. Can high performance be measured? If I'm sitting there going, well, I'm a high performer, I look at Dan or look at Oli, not quite at that level, but I still see myself as high performance. Can we measure it? How can we. It's obviously subjective, right? But again, it's contextual to you and where you are now. So it doesn't mean you're not high performance because you're not running a couple of marathons across the globe. It's got to be contextual to you. And this is why I like the word higher performance, as opposed to high performance. Are you trying to attain a higher level of performance than you were yesterday? For me, that's high performance. So I think we can be inspired by the lights yourself and others out there. But it's got to be relative and contextual to you as an individual. And as long as you're trying to make improvement, then that for me is high performance. Yeah, perfect. We've come up with, well, we've used the word behavior quite a bit. And I truly believe in sort of behaving your way to success and the power of routines and rituals being a big part of it. Sometimes for me, actually, there can be a bit of diminishing returns. Like I'll attach myself to a certain set of behaviors or routine. And because I'm so. I'm very good at just like following through with what I said I was going to do. Sometimes because I've got the blinkers on, I've got single-minded focus, there might be a new way of doing things. Or someone will pose challenge to it or, yeah, like I say, a suggestion based on evidence also their own experience, but I'm not, no, no, this is the one I do it. So I think there's something for people just to understand. When we talk about behaviors and routines, again, it goes down to context dependent and subjective to the individual. And there are maybe a set and a way of doing things that is best practice, but there is slight deviations. You talk a lot about identity first. How important is it for someone to see the person they're trying to become before they get there? Yes. For me, it's everything. And leading into that person, but also embodying the traits of that individual, even before you're there. We had it with a guy, Nathan, who's on our program. And he was a big CEO, nationwide CEO, and he wanted to be an international CEO. So we're like, okay, let's take a step back and see what traits does that person in body? Do they wear a fitted suit, do they have nice ties? Do they train like a savage? Do they show up every single day? How do they posture? How do they articulate? All these small things that then add up, you said earlier, perception is reality. I truly believe that loan behold is now an international CEO. He's honestly, he's closing deals in the GCC, like huge deals, super proud of him. And he's done so much deep work. I'd give him a book recommendation. It's wildly within three days. He's read this book. He's like a serial implementer, which, and again, is another key tray of a high performer, like until someone's to do something. And then four weeks later, he's still chasing them to do that thing. I had it in Dubai. Actually, my friend Mark, CEO of Shackle, he was going to connect me with this individual. So I did, I actually did a run where we did the run on the palm funnily enough and didn't fall over that time. But I'm a conversation and I was like, absolutely, face flying on my run with all of you. But anyways, and he said, "I've done, I've got to connect you with this guy." He runs this hotel, put your performance support into this hotel. He'd be great. I was like, "Oh, yeah, brilliant. Great stuff." I literally left him, went into the taxi. I had an email in my inbox saying, "John, you know, you've got to connect with Dan. He's this and this. And for me, that's a high-performance phrase. If it takes less than five minutes, we've got this on our team. If it takes less than five minutes, you've got to do it there and then do not let that build and accumulate. And then you've got a 20 small thing to do list." So, yeah, that's just for something that I think high-performance doing, body. The bit that I think we can double-click in there is the ability, like you said, if it takes five minutes, just like get it done. The ability to, in the moment, be able to take the action, what a lot of people would do is like, "They'll hear some of the stuff that's going to go on this podcast." And they'll sit with it for too long and they won't implement. So, I suppose it's the ability to, if you hear something that influences you positively and you think, "I can do that." It's the ability to take the action and get it done. Would you agree with that? Yeah. We'll have great ideas. We're going to change the world. But then there's ideas in this action. So, you know, maybe if you're right with you, I'll give you some simple actions that people can carry out as of tomorrow. Daily non-negotiable is something that I've coined many talk about as well. And there are things that you do every single day without negotiating. Like brushing your teeth or at least I hope like brushing your teeth. And they might be three or five things. They're not a long, arduous list of 20 things. If you do them every day, you will get close to your goal. So, going back to your point of three key traits behind the performance, I get that might not be everyone's back, but for anyone listening, anyone can do this irrespective where they are on their journey. Where they're sitting on the couch, where they're running marathons. And I can say this for myself, but also some of the highest performing athletes and CEOs on the planet. So, what they might be 10,000 steps a day, quite an arbitrary number, but we know the neat principle, nonexistent activity thermogenesis does add up over time to get someone close to their goal. Three lease of water a day. We can all do that. Maybe having, if you're in Dubai, an electrolyte tablet every day, potassium, magnesium, sodium, calcium, water, just why I'm cutting it, that will help from a cognitive and muscle action point of view. So, there's three reading 10 pages of a book or listening to 10 minutes of water a day. That compounds over time. These are things that will make you better. And training in some capacity, that's one of mine, but if I'm not training, I'm trained seven days a week, I might do some ability work. So, just showing up and going back to identity, I use someone who sets a goal and shows up every day. And even on non-training days, I want to do something intentional that's going to mean that I keep embodying those key traits. So, for anyone listening, we call it "win the day." I coined it with a football hashtag WTD. He was out of action. He left his club. He went with us for four weeks to have full immersive medical support with my team. And we got him back playing very quickly, but we had this thing of, he was out for 12 weeks with his adema. And there was no point in me talking about him scoring goals again for England. That's way too far away, way too unattainable. So, I don't want this to sound unattainable to people. You can absolutely action things right away. So, the reframe we had, we knew that was the longer-term goal. We didn't mention it. It's like building a wall. The goal is to build the wall. You don't focus on it. You lay brick by brick by brick and before you know it, you've got a wall. So, what we did, we broke before we block it down into four. Week one, he was just with the soft tissue therapist, break down scar tissue. He gets through that and gets signed off. Week two, he's back in the gym with me, doing some robustness and strength base work. He gets through that, week three, he's back on the pitch with no ball, doing some linear work. He gets through that, week four, he's back on the pitch with the ball, we're signed off, get back to your club and then you can start thinking about the next steps. So, I think it's got to be broken down in that way and that's a high-performing athlete, but the psychological barriers of saying, "Oh, we're going to get you back plays." He's like, "I can't even tie my laces up at the moment." So, that goes back to start where you stand, sit realistic goals and break them down incrementally to what does success look like today? How do I win the day? What does that look like for you? And that's when non-negotiables can come in. I fucking hope people are listening to that. I seriously do, because again, we spoke about maybe the intimidation around relentless to all this stuff, but the actual steps there of winning the day and what that looks like for you, you know, five key things, people often say to me like, "I'm on one, I'm on one day. How have you got up and you've gone out on a 20k run at 6am?" It's like, it's like brushing my teeth, like it's like literally the act of waking up this morning as autonomous as the act of doing the run because it's who I am. And just on that, if I can add all the habits stacking, James Clear talks about in Atomic Habits, is if you are trying to formulate a new habit that might be challenging to stack it on an existing habit, I use the term brushing your teeth earlier, right? Because we all do it. We don't think about doing it. It happens, you know, ideally twice a day. So, if you always forget to take your vitamin D sub, always forget to do it. It's in the cupboard. You just forget. Put that next to your toothbrush. Every time you go in there, you're going to brush your teeth. Yeah, I'm going to take that as well. But early on in the journey, that can be a really good way to start trying to formulate new habits. Because the hardest part is to break inertia, the hardest part is to start when those wheels are turning. It can become there, I say, quite easy. Yeah. This small example of this for me is like, you know, people always ask me, "When's the best time to have my creatine?" It's like, "Well, I take it first thing in the morning because I've got a routine that makes me drink fluid first thing in the morning and I just add my creatine to it." It's like removing all that friction. Yeah. Now, there may be marginal gains to be had it, you know, post-training potentially literally much suggests that. But the fact that I take it every day is going to be the thing that I'm going to focus on a little bit more. Cheery on top of the cake. Like tomatoes, tomatoes, as long as you're taking it, right? You've got a system that works for you on the same swing to bite. I wake up fasted. I'll get sunlight in the morning, struggling here to get that there anyway. I'll not look at my phone for 30 minutes. I'll just reset. I'll look out naturally wake up, you know, to adhere to the sleep wake cycle. I'll then have water and electrolytes first. I'll then have an organic aid pre-workout. Sorry, no. I have 30 minutes diving into the team, you know, putting out fires. And then I'll go to the gym. I'll say to the team, "It's my hour of power. Don't message me." Because my attention is poor. Like if I've got my phone, I'm listening to music. The team are, you know, sending messages and all the groups that we've got. It's a problem. It pulls me away from my focus. So they know how important that is. And then I'll get on with my day thereafter. And then I'll have my fully loaded, smoothly light yourself. Creatine, collagen, blueberries, protein, throw it all in. Super easy for me. And then get on with my day. Power. How do you, I mean, we've talked about some of the people you work with, but it's clear that you are the embodiment of everything that you teach, right? How do you manage needing a level of flexibility in a week if something comes in that's like a bit of a curveball? Does that throw you like sideways? Can you manage it and overcome it? I'm sure you've learned to adjust now as life has taken different stages and permutations. But how do you deal with that? Because for a lot of people, I've spoken about this many times as well. The reason I may be perceived as being a slight anomaly is because I've just been able to create routine structure around all the things that are important to me. So work being a piece of that, you create order and routine around it. Obviously, it might change based on the team growing or the businesses, the business requiring something different from me. Like, I'll adjust my routine, but I'll always adjust. I'm always thinking about how to write and how to make that better. Building routine around training, building routine around the kitchen, regular eating times and the sorts of things I'm going to fill my body with. Building routine around social occasions or family, whatever. So it's just about thinking those three or four or five different domains and arenas that you find yourself in and building robust routines that enable you to sharpen yourself. Many people, particularly successful people in the business world or in a career, or even successful parents, can do it in one of those domains or one or two of those domains. You all clearly, someone who's managed to build a life by design, he mentioned there when you're training, tell everyone, don't message me. For some people, I think they have the ability to do all of that, but that's maybe a level that they're not yet and it's about earning the right to get there. So for these certain people that are always getting pushed and pulled in different directions, what is the kind of your experience of that? I'm sure it doesn't happen very often because you're going to be, you're going to ring fence, you're routine. How do you adjust on the fly? For those people first, I'll come to how I just in a second, I'd say, try and take a zoom out approach and look for a slightly different lens, because people are just in there, I'm trying out fires. They're so reactive to everything to try and take a step back for a moment and just see, OK, what can I control? And also what's important to me, you said they're like Tony Robbins bucket energy that will stay with me for life is identify three or four things that you truly place value on. So health, performance, gym, whatever we call it, that's one, right? Sleep, you choose that, all falls into that bucket. The next one, relationships and family for you, that's super important, right? The next one is probably business, OK, there's three, let's keep it simple, three, and you don't have an infinite amount of water, OK? So some of them I hold my hands up in the past, relationships, mountain, harsh, not getting it up. I've tried to, you know, improve that now and it has improved. So I'm not perfect. I'm chasing those wins every single day and trying to become a better leader, a better business owner, a better boyfriend and a better son to my mum, that's what I focus on, right? But there's having the awareness of that, OK, that needs a bit more love, that needs a bit more TLC. So that's the first thing and your second part of the question, I think you've, I think you've nailed it really. It's like how do people, I mean, the second part is you in, how do you overcome it? Yeah, it's how, how do people overcome, yeah, I spoke, how do people create order around those things that are super important to them? And then if they've created order and something comes in this a bit of a curve, or how do they overcome that? So I think you've got to have a foundation in place first. So it starts with what's important to you, so that's what I just explained. The foundation can be the four pillars, training, nutrition, recovery, and mindset. Mindset's the glue that holds the other three together for me, that's how you show up consistently every day. So then when you know where you go in the goals, what's important to you, then you have the four pillars in place. You have a foundation. And if you're thrown a curve ball, you simply adapt and react, you've got to be a chameleon in this game of life, right? You've got to be able to adapt to your environment and change accordingly. I'm a sucker for structure and I think I sit you off line only like the last seven to ten days have been wild, you know, Connor Ben's fight was originally meant to be September the 20th. I was on the on the flight back from Bali with my girlfriend, feeling the relationship bucket up. And just about to touch down the runway, my phone popping off, saying the fight's now off. I was meant to have three days in Dubai and then dive back into two months with Connor in immersive training camp. So I scrambled a little bit and managed to sort some other bits out, came out to London to see my mom and do some other business meetings and you know, talk to yourself. But that adaptability is keys to yes, be structured, yes, to know where you're going, yes, have goals and clear actionable steps on a daily, weekly, monthly basis and what you want to achieve per quarter. But also know that it's not always going to go to plan. There's so many curve balls and as a high performer and you know, people who are at the top of their craft, you're also going to get curve balls, good curve balls thrown at you. And then you've got to identify whether it's worth catching and rolling with or maybe saying no. I think there's a real power in saying no as well. Yeah, that's great insight. You've referenced Connor there. He won't mind us talking a little bit about him. We've had him on the podcast before, honestly, one of the best guests I've had. I think someone often misunderstood because of the bravado and everything he has to come across on social media and in the media, but I had a really, really great conversation with him and myself and Sam actually said we want to get him back for a second episode. You're someone that knows him incredibly well on a personal level and an intimate level, you know, being his high performance coach. We were speaking before we started recording about, you know, what it's like in camp with someone like that. What are the things that you're thinking about to ensure that come fight night? He's that is very best. And Charlie was in the conversation. It was actually you want to ask a few sort of nuggets there that often people wouldn't assume, right? We understand people have strength and conditioning coaches or people in their corner, they have their team. But every little bit of detail and it's very clear, probably everyone that's listened to the previous sort of 45 minutes of conversation, you are meticulous in the detail. And you sweat all the small stuff and, you know, you've really taken this to the end degree which is why you're at the level you're at as a coach and as an operator yourself. Can you just give us, there's no real questions here around camp. Just give me some insight into what it's like in the build up to camp being around an athlete like that. And what are the things that you're thinking about that people wouldn't necessarily understand as someone in Connor's corner? Yeah, thanks. I appreciate that. Connor's top, you know, he's a top guy and he makes me look good as the head of performance because he's just dialed in and he is all gas and outbreaks and I think that's where the respect level of myself and him come into play is that he'll listen. And in boxing, one of my former athletes John Wright had a great quote, old school values modern methods. And it's the values in boxing have to be old school. We like that grit. We like that. Locking yourself away, dialing in towards a specific goal because it's the fight game in the end of the day. It's either, you know, you win or lose, but when you lose, you're on your ass quite literally is high octane as we know and why we love it. So those old school values need to be there. But the modern methods, that's something that I fought for the last 15 years of getting into boxing and, you know, Connor embodies all of those. We love the data. When in camps, a couple of things, I have his whoop on my phone. So every morning he's like, Dan, what's my numbers? What's my numbers? I'll be honest and Connor, if you listen, I'm sorry, there's a few white lies in there as well. You know, if he's in the red, I'll take that information on board. I'll let him know he's in a good place because otherwise he'll get in his head. And then we'll inform our decisions as we go, you know, speaking to the head coach, Tony and maybe start manipulating the training outputs on the basis of that data. But we don't just take data as a singular entity. We take objective markers. We also look at neuromuscular readiness testing. We do three jumps at the start of every session. We see if there's like a 12% decrement in the jump scores that that might impact whether he's ready, whether he's fatigued, then of course, subjective markers. And 20 years in the game, the coaches are, I can see if he's warming up a little bit of the axe. Mm. Okay. And on the subject of that, well, you're like this. Well, he was on the ring ropes one day, I'm sorry, he was a little body language and posture was a little bit flatter than normal, should we say. I said, you're right. Say, yeah, yeah, not the reaction I get from chronic. If I say you're right. So, yeah, what do you mean? Of course, I'm all right. We're talking about. And, uh, anyway, I said no bad sessions and he just went out there, boom. His eyes lit up. His shoulders went back, posture and an outlook completely changed. He said, oh, Dan, that hit me, man. I needed that no bad sessions throughout the camp, any point, and by the way, any point he's slightly down, that's very infrequent, so we could hear, um, I'll say no bad sessions and it'll just, we coin the term, even on fight night in the changing room. I said, like, last words to him were double-spud, unbelievable training camp. Best I've ever had. No bad sessions. Go and do what you do. And it's those little things that stay with the fighter. Um, again, I suppose small things on fight night, we found out, I think four hours before there were going to be no mirrors in the changing room. Connor won't fight if there's no mirrors in the changing room. You better rectify that. And why that's important, again, the small stuff, the details matter. He's been drilling for 12 weeks, twice a day in the mirror, doing all of his shadow, all of his prep. That's a problem. If there's no mirrors in the changing room and he can't see how he's moving. So, uh, yeah, those things are important and I think, um, throughout camp, those details really, really do matter every detail, uh, whether it's, you know, me letting the chef know what time the food's going to be ready, what's, you know, what's on the menu for the food, uh, what energy people are bringing, you know, are people bringing some food that may be misaligned to Connor's goal into the house, if they are, they've got to get that out. These details are important. And also going back to non-negotiables, Olli, I think the Michael Jordan effect, I'm certainly not comparing myself to Michael Jordan, but hear me out on this is, um, the pulling people up to his level, sitting the standard, Connor likes it because I'm body high performance. I lead from the front and he sees that. Like, I'm all in, as is he, and that's why it works in that environment where you're chasing every marginal gain and every percentage does matter. Everyone in that house lost weight in camp. His sister lost seven kilos. The chef lost 10 kilos and Pedro lost 11 kilos, the assistant coach. And that's because we set the standard. We had the food set, everyone was eating similar types of foods, no crap in the house. We had non-negotiables. Everyone, I created a bit of gamification around the steps, it's like, how many steps you have in 9,000, right, let's go, we went for team walks every evening without Connor, he was chilling. Um, so again, that every, like, a rising tide, a raise all ships, everyone was pulled up to the level. Um, so yeah, there's just a few small things, I think, um, in terms of more specifics throughout camp, just, yeah, every, every detail, like even the music in the change room, we think about the BPM and the frequency of the music, who's in the change room, energy's important, and energy's infectious. And on fight night, those small things are so, so important. I really like the little anecdote you shared before about, um, the ringwalk, you give us a little insight into that, the, the day before and how you do it, the rehearsal piece. Yeah, so we rehearsed the ringwalk the day prior, look, for Connor, this was 60,000 people at Tottenham, hadn't fought in the UK in two or three years, uh, a fight that steeped in British boxing history and folklore with the fathers who fought in the 90s, and huge pressure on that young man, shoulders, and also people forget stepping up to weight classes, you know, he's had a lot, a lot of unknowns going into that fight. And so we rehearsed the ringwalk the day prior, I think, you know, that was important and, um, we had the choir there. I don't know if you saw the ringwalk on finite, it was just the whole occasion was spectacular. And, uh, just, just going out and just rehearsing and visualizing of how it would be, I felt like that was quite an important moment. So that wouldn't actually happen. Fighters don't necessarily rehearse at that level with the party. No, not really, no, not really. Um, but again, there was lots of unknowns. So yeah, as a team, we did that and I think the big thing as well as a team, we did everything. We were there to support Connor, you know, we are simply the back invocals, we are the supporting cast, but, um, you know, he certainly draw strength from having a cohesive unit behind him, you know, comes back to just like controlling the controllables, everything that is within your control, control it to, to the best of your ability. I think that's probably what I bring is, um, it's not just the sets and reps guy in the gym. Every detail, so Connor can just focus on one thing and that is the fight. We take care of absolutely everything else national, just me to be clear, that's every other team member. We all know our roles and Dr. Fergus Connelly talks about in a book, Game Change, he says, to reach peak performance, you must have synergy between different departments and like we've seen it in performance when we're building businesses and things like the physio doesn't talk to the nutrition, it doesn't talk to the person from training or the coach. It's like, how does that work? We follow an athlete-centered model where everyone is ingrained in that with one soul goal and that's to get his arm raised, come fight night. Yeah, I think this comes back to everything we talked about, like setting up the environment for success, and we've used, we've used a word a couple of times in our communication over the last couple of hours, this immersive experience and really looking at every bit of detail and making it as all-encompassing as possible being the things that set people up for success. Um, yeah, I mean, is there anything you, I mean, I know that you would have dotted every eye, crossed every tee, you know, made sure you've ticked every box in the build-up to that fight for Connor, uh, controlled all the controllables, and it's the fight game, right? Like, get punched in the face, you know, the fight was incredible. Um, is there anything you're going to take differently into fight number two as you go into camp? Is there any way that you reflect when your own performance and that and go, maybe I could have done this a little bit differently? I think we did a lot very, very well, and I think we can all be immensely proud of the way Connor performed on fight night. It was so many unknowns that had now known knowns going into the next one, like the ring or what, like the occasion, like the opponent, uh, you know, like the fight, fighting in that weight for the first time. I think from a physical and psychological point of view, we did a lot right, you know, I'm very happy with all of that. Of course, the small marginal gains that we can improve on, um, technical tactical, maybe there's some errors to improve there. I think in the first round, he was swinging from the fences and I think that's just handling the moment, which he will do better next time. And, um, I think, yeah, look, as a team, where we have reflected already, we're going to continue to reflect again before we go. And as of yesterday, as we shoot this podcast, the fight has been announced November the 15th at Tottenham. So, uh, you bank been to and, uh, that we've all got to get better. We don't just dive in, like we've spoken about throughout the entirety of this podcast. We've all got to reflect. We want to get clarity of our roles. And, um, again, make sure that everyone is set up and synergistically aligned to one goal. As Connor to win, as to get his arm raised, we can be proud of his efforts, but we didn't achieve the goal that we all set out to do. We all sacrifice no more than Connor, but we all sacrifice. I believe in Dubai, you know, leave my girlfriend and I'm there to win. I'm not there to show up and, you know, make up the numbers. So, yeah, if there's a margin, you've got to find it. I think Connor is a, you know, a shining example of someone who is resilient, single-minded, focused, relentless. And I'm sure all the people that you've trained, you know, CEO is the football player as the boxers, but is there anything from maybe you can maybe name an athlete if you can think of one where there's been bits that have maybe they've doubled down and they've got that bit more, and then you've been able to take that from them. Is there any athletes or any examples of how they'll maybe do something or show up that stuck with you? I've got so many lessons, like recently in a training camp actually, I did a training camp in Portugal. I go over to Kintelalber every year at the campus and, you know, this is a small one. I'll give more, but we had Ryan Sesson, young and angel Gomez, two great guys, great football players. And this is again, going back to the simplicity of high performance and non-negotiables. These guys had probably 14, 15 sessions with me throughout the time that we were there. Maybe a bit more double sessions. Not once were they late. They showed up early every single time. These are guys, angels, you know, in the England set up, Ryan's played Premier League football for however long. And for me, that stood out because you've then got younger athletes who might be rocking up late or, you know, just didn't embody those standards and it's those simple things. You said earlier, control the controls. These are things that we can control showing up on time. That's a non-negotiable. So that was certainly one that I've got loads and lessons like John Ryder. We went out to Guadalajara, Mexico in front of 60,000 people at the Shiva Stadium fighting Canelo Alvarez. Massive underdog. No one gave him a hope in hell and John could have crumbled in the fourth or fifth round. He got put down for the first time in his career. You look around. You're like, oh my God. I mean, I'm in the line's den here quite literally in the heart of, in the heart of Mexico. And he bit down. He founded it in a strength. He drew from that strength all the preparation and he went 12 rounds with Canelo and gave him a good go in the end. You know, lots of the final points, of course. So I draw strength from those moments because my life is easy compared to these guys. These guys are in the trenches. These guys have got another man swinging back at them, you know, like trying to quite literally take their head off. So I draw strength from that in my day today and that's why I've got to show up to your question earlier, why I've got to bring my best self because my life's easy compared to them. And, you know, if I show up and it enables them to show up and really put themselves through it. Is there a reason you've applied this passion for performance towards boxing and football in particular? Is there something that those athletes have that maybe it's a commercial decision, which is absolutely fair, but is there a reason? Boxing was a passion back in the day, a couple of hours of fights and I'm definitely better this side of the ropes now, but I realised as well there's a bit of a gap. Like I knew one boxers are lovely people, like they get a bad rap, you know, you think they're fighting. Well, no, if you have a conversation as you have with Connor and you say, well, actually it's really endearing. He's a really lovely guy outside of the bravado, they're the nicest people. You go into a boxing gym, they're the nicest people. And I saw a gap there because I knew the training methods at that time was so suboptimal to actually reach peak performance, become a better athlete to then transfer to become a better fighter. So that was really a passion of mine that I knew that I wasn't that great. So I then go the other side of how can I be involved in this sport? So that was the boxing side of things, football has always been a passion, could have made it if I didn't get, but then football was something that was passionate about, kind of got into and it's been a long while, they've been the big two, I work with racing car drivers as well, I've worked with a golfer in the past, but they really are the big two sports and the ones that I really do enjoy the most. Let's take, so we spoke about it being a very immersive experience, the people that you work with directly, you're not obviously going to have the opportunity to work with everyone in the world directly, but what are the key principles in terms of, I guess, training? Let's just look at that. The 60 minutes that someone's got three times a week, five times a week. What are the things that you'd be thinking about? We live in the world where, as we're sitting now, as we both sit up a little bit straight so where we're hunched over a desk all day, everything's in front of us, driving phones, you know, all that tops. So I think starting with some form of ability work, it's not slick, it's not sexy, is important where that's five or six minutes at the start of the day, it can compound over a period of time and what that might look like. So as I'm sitting here now, my hips are in a short position, our pelvis is out of alignment, I had spinal surgery 13 years ago, so these are considerations I've got to have. The teeth spine as well is slightly rounded. So doing some ability around the hips, around the mid to upper back area, pretty important before you get going. So we call it the ramp protocol, raise, activate, mobilize, potentiate, popularize by the injuries and just yet raise the heart rate, activate muscles, mobilize around joints and primal, potentiate the neuromuscular system. Super simple. If someone wants to, I can share a video after this, you can find it on my surface anyway. So that's the final six minutes. Then a little bit of activation work, you know, for me again, sitting down all day, glutes are pretty important, posterior chain as we've heard it, doing some switch-ons there where single leg hip, for us, cook hip lift, you know, glute bridge, whatever you like to call that or some hamstring work, then going into some posterior shoulder works and banded pull-up arts, face pulls again, just encounter at the postures we find ourselves in on a daily basis. So if you're part five, five heavy bench, then probably want to show some love to the shoulder and add some stability to the shoulder complex before you do so. And go into the primal potentiate again, let's look at the pattern. If you're doing a horizontal press today, like a bench press, dumbbell, chest press or other, let's prime that pattern. Let's do some medicine ball drop catches, some nice and reactive or some metatome push-up, reactive push-ups or something to prime the pattern that you're going to be training. For a squat, for example, let's prime that with a CMJ, a counter movement jump, load explode, absorb to prime the neuromuscular system, ready for that main key lift. And then you go into the key lift, obviously with the, you know, CNS, we want to go probably more strength dominant work early on in the session, where that's three reps, where that's five reps above 85% of, you know, max load, one RM. And you've got to go with big compounds, heavy bilateral movements, trap bar dead lift again. I'm a fan of the trap bar because of my back history, less loading on the spine, a little bit safer. There's technical coaching as well for some of my athletes. It's a lot easier. Or a back squat. Maybe a big, big compounds work to probably a one or two RIR reps in reserve. If you look at Eric Helms' model there of, okay, I've got one or two reps left in the tank, I'm good. You know, don't go balls to the wall every time, like manage your stress, look at your boot data, see how you're feeling, and then manage your outputs accordingly. After doing that, we popularize a lot of filler work as well. So a lot of people getting into running, do they do any robustness work around the lower limbs? So we're looking at tibans, tibialis anterior, gastronymus and soleus. And maybe doing some work around that in your recovery periods. And then going into more kind of auxiliary assistance work where the reps scheme might be a little bit higher. So you might now be looking at eight to 12, 12 to 15, inducing more metabolic stress. And you might be looking at riff elevated split squats, bringing some single leg patterns in. I think the world we live in as well, everything's so sagittal, plain, dominant, up, down, fours and back, bicep curls, squats, deadlifts, human movement as we know is 360 degrees. So I believe we've got to be training in that. It doesn't mean we're on bosubles and flinging things around, but it doesn't mean, you know, I like some single arm work where we're getting some kind of controversial reach and opening the tea spine, bringing a bit of mobility into the routine as well. And I've found that, you know, as my 37 year old self is like, I used to be the, I still love bicep curls, bench press and bicep curls, but now it's got to be movement orientated. So yeah, adding a lot of that in, bringing some trunk work in. I look at a lot of the professor's doing McGill work trunk bracing as opposed to just a load of endless ab crunches, buffering rotational forces, lateral flexion forces and extension forces on the spine. I think for me, the way I present, I'm in that kind of Nicki Minaj bootie posture of we see girls doing Instagram, but joking aside, I'm slightly extended. So I've got to do a lot more extension or anti extension work to buffer those forces certainly as I'm getting into running. And then we've got to finish with some art, man. We've got to do the art. That's the main thing that you all up on on socials, but yeah, look, we've got to do something that makes us feel good, walk out the gym, feeling, feeling good and outside of all of that, manage your training loads, manage your volumes accordingly, you know, don't try and do a five, five protocol if you're new to the gym. If you are new to the gym, follow a GPP protocol, general physical, preparational preparedness where you might go higher reps schemes, you might go total body. But then you know, if you are moderate to advanced, I'd be looking at more of a split routine. Yeah. That's really good, man. Absolute gold. Again, it's context dependent right because we're talking about, you know, a wide range of listeners that come from different backgrounds, different training ages, different experiences. But so take everything we're saying there from a principal standpoint rather than, you know, this is what I maybe should be doing. I've heard you talk and we've talked about it, you know, the increase of hybrid training versus, you know, this is just regular training that we've been doing for years. If we are looking at someone who's getting into hybrid training, so we're talking about mixture of sort of strength work and maybe some cardiovascular fitness, what do you think a week should be comprised of a typical week for someone that maybe some like a five day split? Yeah. So, I'd be looking at, again, zoom out of thick, let's look at the overall week. I really like hinge and push knee dominant and pull and the reason I don't like hinge and pull is because if you're doing your deadlifts and pull ups on the same day, by the time you got to your pull ups, the limiting factor is always going to be your grip, okay? And then your pull ups aren't going to hit those numbers. So that's why I like biasing that whether that's, you know, for context, it's a deadlift variation, RDL, trap bar and then going into either a vertical or horizontal press, entirely optional. So for me, that would be one day. I'd then be looking at you. You're a fat, I mean, but by default, you're a fan of a more of a full body kind of focus in the industry. Yeah. So you could say full body, which, you know, in essence, it kind of is, but I still break it down further. I say, well, if we're looking at that, it's more glutes and hammies with a hinge dominant deadlift day and then a push would, in essence, be a chest, chest and triceps, right? So we're still eliciting a sufficient overload stimulus for that, you know, for us, if we're doing full body three days a week, we're not really going to get much overload in terms of hypertrophy. I think, you know, we probably agree. So actually, I'm still getting enough volume to elicit hypertrophic stimulus, but I'm still getting more benefits. We know based on Brad Skowfield's research, 2017, I think it was hitting a muscle group more frequently throughout the course of a week is optimal comparatively to just doing chest day, okay? So we know that. That's your hybrid question. This is how I, you know, probably unless I'm missing the point of hybrid, I'd be doing that. I'd be getting some good strength work, some good power work, still a bit of hypertrophy work in box tick there. I then, and it wouldn't be the next day to be clear, I'd be doing more knee dominant. So whether that's a squat, whether that's a split squat variation, rear foot split squat or other, and then I'd be looking at pull on that day. So there might be a pairing as simple a one, a two pairing after all the prep that I've mentioned of back squat, full of my neutral grip pull up, and then maybe a filler exercise three to four sets on that first work set and then build up to your, your numbers, and then I'd maybe go into rear foot elevated split squat, full of my single arm row, and maybe we're like in a doctor side plane to get some, some trunk work in as well. And then go into a bit of an arm farm to finish is quite literally that simple, when you have that framework. So there's two key sessions. I then, you know, if you're looking at, again, hybrid, we're looking at kind of the aerobic system and we're looking at probably getting one, maybe two aerobic based runs in. So engine work at heart rate, so we're going to Joel Jamison's cardiac output method between 120 and 150 BPM. I then part of our program, we call it traffic light system, not every day is created equal, so green would be like your aerobic runs, maybe not so much for you, because you're smashing out 20, 30 Ks, but like a 10 K relatively easy for a moderate, you know, hybrid athlete, if you like, as long as you're staying within those zones, whereas a red day, like that might be a 30 K, it might be a really challenging five by five heavy backscores. Again, you can see the demands and stress on the system is very, very different. So that's where you've got to be quite smart and tactile and maybe use the data, both objective and subjected to see what am I doing on that day. So then I'd add, you know, maybe a little bit more kind of grump work, if you like, without be some, hey, the word metabolic conditioning, without some kettlebells, you know, building a bit of intensity and work into those higher kind of thresholds and numbers of heart rate, building in some sprints, that for me would be the optimal week, kind of every only mentioned for maybe five sessions there, but you're kind of taking all boxes and then I probably would throw an upper body one in as well if that's the actual goal, which I think for everyone myself included they are, but yeah, that for me would be a pretty solid training week. That's really good principles, I think the kind of take I'm there is that, you know, training like an athlete, training with movement variation in all different planes, we're looking at some more absolute type rep ranges, absolute strength, we're looking at more hypertrophy rep ranges, and we're keeping a very balanced approach to our training program. I think again, for the everyday person, maybe have some big, some big goals and that there's the level of specificity that's probably required for whatever the goal is or the sport is, but training like an athlete is best way to sort of keep yourself injury free and feeling good. And understanding what you're trying to achieve without going too deep here in terms of physiology, but understanding what the goal of the session is, right? If you're doing heavy three to five reps above 85% and one rep max, I'm trying to improve force production. I'm trying to get stronger to build robustness qualities and then become a more powerful athlete or at least give me the potential to become more powerful athlete because force times velocity equals power. So you're building the engine, you're building the horsepower in the engine, you've gone from a two liter to a three liter engine by simply getting stronger and we know that you're then if you're doing it the right way and you're not crumbling under the bar, you're building robustness and tissue tolerance and low tolerance and capacity that will then help you become a runner, a better high rocks athlete or whatever else you're doing. And then, you know, if you're looking at mechanism for hypertrophy, maybe some metabolic stress, maybe, I don't know, so that would be mechanical tension, muscle damage, there's question marks there as to whether that's that is still whatever. But you know, I like doing control eccentric, you know, absolutely providing you're not going to be too fatigued and sore for the next day. I think one thing I would say for the listeners is there's a dominoes effect. You cannot see a session as a singular entity. You've got to see how this session feeds into the next, feeds into the next because as we know, torso and hair, it's not about that one epic session that you have. It's about the big C word showing up consistency consistently. How are you talked about, we've talked about sort of training, we've talked about referencing sort of objective subjective data, maybe from your whoop or the wearable and then also how you feeling and really understanding yourself and knowing, you know, am I motivated to training? Is this, obviously, motivation, discipline, et cetera, some sessions we have to go through where we're not maybe quite there, but you still have to get it done. Others, there's maybe an opportunity to pull back, take some recovery. Talk to about sort of that people's relationship then with stress and how we manage both physical and cyclological stress on the fly in the moment. Think of stress, right? It all goes into one cup. So there's our stress cup and we spoke prices, didn't we? You're doing some pretty savage things at the moment, not just in training. You're training for the Sydney and Berlin and you're not just training for it. You've got a very clear goal that I know you're holding yourself accountable to and doing everything you can to achieve that. But what people don't see if you don't mind me saying all these is you're also a dad. You're a beautiful family. You're crushing a business with a massive team. I global entity and building a brand in doing so. These are stresses and they all go into this same cup. So with that, unfortunately, you can't follow the I am a full time athlete approach of I'm going to eat sleep, train, repeat. It would be lovely to do so, but you've got so many other stresses that knowing you and knowing a high performance rate, you know, no, I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. But sometimes you're not, it builds up, it accumulates and how that might present itself, like a volcano, it builds, it builds, it builds, and then it erupts. And that's when you get a tissue issue. You get, oh, done my hammy. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Done my hammy. I've done this, you know, so it's, I think we've just got to be very mindful of the bucket and that only comes with time. It only comes with experience. We are in a data driven well, so we can start looking at data, though I'd say don't fall too far down that rabbit hole. Just use it to maybe start informing decisions, but don't, you know, make it the be all an end all. Sometimes, though, I'm not a huge fan. We've got to go full goggins, you know, and just suck it up and get on with it. But, you know, if it's that that your data is presenting in the way you feel subjected even objectively for three, four or five days, and you're not listening to that, that's going to be a problem for you. I would absolutely de-load. I would absolutely pull back. It's all about the push pull method and effect. Knowing when to pull back and that's hard. It's hard for you. I know it is. It's hard for me. I don't like rest days. I really don't like training is not just physical. Training is psychological. It's the glue that holds everything together. So that's why I say even on a non-training day, I will still show up and do some ability. So I've ticked the box and I've shown up and I can get all with my day. So I think managing workload, managing family, managing stress, and it goes back again to the Tony Robbins. The three pronged approach of what do you place value on it all starts from there because if you've got ten buckets or you don't really know what your buckets are, you're taking in all this stress, you're getting overwhelmed, you're going around in circles. So take a step back, get clear with your goals, get clear with your buckets. Then you can try and manage stress a little bit better because this whole life thing is about stress management. For lack of encounters and this is so good. I mean, the reason is prudence because last couple of days I've literally felt like that. I've had a couple of late nights, obviously I know my sleep routines that are whack. My Garmin or the ultra-human ring that I'm wearing will be telling me heart rate was elevated during sleep, total sleep times down, breath rates up. So I'm seeing these bits of down. I can push through here. But when you're on the third day and you see the motivations dipping in further, you're in the gym, you can tell from like, you know, I grip the bar, I can tell with my grips feeling how it should feel or not. And these are just reminders to go, you know, a side step, a couple of steps away from a couple of days away from what you would have supposed to be doing and focusing on other areas might be the sauna, might be the mobility, it might be the whatever it may be, there are things that can still move you forward. And that's so important because I'm guilty of it, you're guilty of it, some of our clients are guilty of it, the whole high rocks, like we see it, whereas foot on the gas, they champion, do more work, do more work, I promise you that is not optimal to reach peak performance. The way you will reach peak performance is knowing when to push, knowing when to pull understanding your body and they're the people who will stay on track going back to consistency. Like you might do a four week block and then fall off and you need seven to ten days completely out of kilter. Well, what about you do the four week block, you pull back from mini D loads, we actually kind of coined the term mini D loads, we don't need to do a seven day D load, call, we go mental, three days, three and a half days, pull back and then get back to it, that's all you need. And then you can continue to improve. Really good. Let's talk about then this, the longevity piece, the ability to show up consistently and improve time after time after time. And I think that's where people like yourself in your career, 18 years, I can't believe you said George Groves earlier, 2012 or 2013, I must have been following him for more than 10 years, so I remember it vividly. To keep being at that level for so long, the athletes, the Ryan Sess and you're on, whoever it may be in yourself as a practitioner, there's a longevity piece here and it's trial and error over time, it's learning and it's being able to cause correct when things go wrong. As you've evolved, how has your definition of high performance for yourself changed? You referenced this new, I guess, new experience now of having a girlfriend and things need to change, how do you evolve your high performance as things change? Is it reference Tony Robbins? Is it just reevaluating the buckets and going, okay, what's important for me in this phase of life? Yeah, kaisen continuous improvement, I know that's how we live our life, we're going down to Japanese philosophical roots, I won't continue this improvement every day across the board and the buckets, as I say, they have changed slightly, I'm putting energy into relationships now, which is great, she makes me a better person, she slows me down a little bit, I think it's just identifying what's important to you and just trying to get better in any way, shape or form, the high performance of trace, I'm 37 now, I've had to, what I'm saying is what I've learned, it's what I've seen, what I've done at the highest level, it's what I've learned on myself as well, I can't be blasé and blinker to managing my training loads, I had spinal surgery 13 years ago in Harley Street and I've had to manage my loads since, I've been envious of the way you get under that bar and rip it up, but even you will probably say no. I've changed completely the last couple of years, I was saying the other day, again, reference in this lab that came up today, I don't remember the last time I did a bilateral hinge from the floor, I can't obviously, you can't do it and run four times a week, because the juice isn't worth the squeeze, it goes back to what are your goals, clear with it, is that aligned or misaligned and then we look at the risk of us reward continuum, is the risk of the exercise to do an ego lift with the boys to put it on the ground, does that outweigh the rewards and think for now, our older cells would say yeah, it absolutely does, so I think going back to your question is like I've had to adapt, I've had to evolve, I have to manage my training loads, I really do believe in our four pillars training nutrition recovery in mind, so if I don't sleep well, I'm not good to be around to her and I have to then prioritize that, and I create the optimal sleep environment to do that, it's not just saying off, go and sleep, when someone's listening to this, they've got three kids at home, that's not a great advice, but there are ways that you can optimize your sleep environment, and if sleep is something, you cannot improve because of other things that you've got going on contextual to you, what can you improve with the other three pillars? You can eat better, you can still get two grams per kilo of body weight of protein per day, there's certain things you can do, three litres of water, these little things will add up and please don't get overwhelmed by certain things you can't do, focus on what you can do, as you set control of the controllables. What's one area of your life that you're actively trying to improve? You've got it all nailed? No, I haven't got it nailed, it's good, no chance, relationships, I'm learning on the job big time, like I've been blinked, I've been single-minded, I haven't had to think about other people, I'm really trying that regard. Being a leader of my team, I'm learning on that job as well, and realizing that I've got to articulate in different ways, like I am high performance, my standards are so high, if you've got five year team in the Philippines, maybe there's a bit of a misalignment there, so thankfully now I've got Jamie, he's my head of operations, he's been absolutely brilliant, so everything feeds into him, and then little bits make its way through to me, so I can then focus on the big stuff, podcasts, great meetings, great people, and do the stuff that I enjoy, but I'm trying to become a better leader, I'm trying to become a better communicator, it is continuous, I don't feel like I've cracked it by any stretch, and I hope that does not come across in this podcast, I'm trying to be a better son to my mum, you know, so. Actually, I think it's quite endearing, the bits of content you share with your mum, whether you're flying out to Dubai, you've gone for a trip in Europe, you've been with her in London, I really like that, do you know what everyone's been saying now, I honestly think I need to cancel my Instagram page to make her work, no, she's unbelievable to be fair, so. I think it's that ability to humanise high performance, or people that we put on a pedestal because of the way in which they act, but then realise there are softer sides to it, what habits are you doubling down on, that you see your sort of future self, 37 years old, maybe coming towards 40 things are changing the way you train, mention that, what things do you, well, I'm saying because I'm in the same boat, so I want to sort of learn, is there anything you're sort of doubling down on to, you know, for this sort of next phase of life, I mean, you reference the relationships and stuff, but. Yeah, relationship being a big one, and just trying to curate the life that I've always wanted, that's why I moved to Dubai, and people see Dubai as these kind of lavish, like showing off, that we all know what they see, right? It's not that, if you don't want it to be that, I live a very kind of minimalistic life out there, I really go out, me and my girlfriend are going to go and play Pavila a couple of times a week, and it's a place for me to grow, it's a place for me to dive in and have good conversations with light-minded people who have that growth mindset that I mentioned, environment dictates how it comes, I'm not just saying this stuff, I've been very consciously aware of my environment in the UK, and I thought, I've reached a summit at the mountain in terms of physical preparation and working in sport, you know, I've achieved a lot, and I'm blessed for that, but I then also believe that, when I reach a summit at that mountain, I'm very self-aware as being a growth-minded individual, I've got to go straight back down the other side, now I'm looking at the next mountain, and that's, you know, the summit is way up there, and I've got to keep working, so I put myself in an environment to do that. Yeah, that's a great answer, you know, to buy something I've talked of fondly because of that, right? You've been, everything that people would have listened to over this last hour and half almost, there's so much intentional action that's going on, every environment, every opportunity, every decision, it's made through clear, a clear thing, you put it through this filter, you're like, okay, this is the better option for me, you're constantly A and B testing, you know, a food versus another food, a train day versus a movement versus another movement, you're seeing on athletes and CEOs, you're seeing on yourself, and taking yourself to Dubai, which is actually a part of what I wanted to discuss, is like a really intentional action to immerse yourself in an environment where you're going to learn more about business, there's, you know, there's more career opportunities, commercial opportunities, and it's the same for me, I want to be around people that are thinking how I want to try and think, I love optimism, not toxic, like, you know, people thinking there's something they're not, but I love glass is half full, I'm going to attack it, we can win this, we'll find a way, not second questioning pessimistic, I don't know, I'm unsure, I'm going to, you know, retract and retreat, but in the UK, you find many people like that, you're being bombarded by the media, you're bombarded by people, and people just want to sit in a box, be in a box, accept this, don't do that, go on one holiday, have fun, we're not too much, have a nice car, but don't make it better than mine, all this kind of bullshit, I like when people are succeeding, in whatever area of their life, whether it's financially, relationships, whatever, that's like, I warm to that, I sort of move towards, I'm like, how what can I learn from this individual, I want them to go further, I never look at it as going, you know, that I'm comparing myself and I now feel, take a negative approach to it, Dubai is that melting pot of talent, you know, you see it in parts of the US as well, there's just a level of optimism in a way of thinking, you're one conversation away from your life trajectory completely changing, you're one introduction or, you know, network session away from these sorts of things, so I can see why you've moved there, 100%, what does high performance look like for someone in their 40s, 50s or 60s who maybe aren't as physically capable as in our 30s or 20s, should it be attached to, I think kind of the answer, because I think we've touched on everything our performance is, should it be attached to the metrics, the 5k time, the marathon, this on my deadlift, this on my bench press, it can be, if that's their goal, it goes back to what do they want to achieve, it's got to be contentious of them, so we'll do an unpacking deep dive session of what does high performance mean to you, you know, what does success look like, not just over the next six months, over the next six years for that individual, because if they are making a shift at 40, 45 and as you said, 50, that's the rest of their life, so it quite literally is that important, so we've got to get crystal clear with, okay, who do you want to be, what traits do they embody, do you want to be a father, do you want to be a grandfather, do you want to be around to see your grandchildren, like that's how important is, and we have a slow in our website, we will help you live for longer, which I think is quite brash and straight up, but we've got the data to prove it, we know based on Dr. Peter O'Tears' work, his book Out Live, well, like highly recommended read, you know, there's direct correlations with via two maximum longevity, which is why that's one of our testing batteries with our business, so we can say if we get you from the lowest percentile to kind of middle range, we will improve the quality and duration of your life, so we use a lot of data, I think is important with those guys, certainly with the executives, is we say like in business what gets measured gets managed, you know, you can't just be like randomly doing things at that point, like these guys and girls have worked so hard for their life, they deserve to be optimised, and that's really the word, and certainly into bio longevity, you know, reduce mortality rates, optimisation, wellness, I hate the words biohacking, but you know, if you want to throw that in the mix, I don't believe in biohacking, I believe in optimisation, and of course this certain traits that fall under the biohacking umbrella, like ice bars, infrared saunas, NAD+, that you know, we will bring into our programme, we believe in a lot deeper approach around behavioural change, around environments, and hopefully that's come across today that we can quite literally change someone's life, it doesn't matter if you're 40, 45, 50, you've still got long way to go, and it's not just about, it's about having life in your years as well, not just adding years to your life, it's how you live those, so yeah, look, if you want, if your bench wants to go up, that's probably not the metric, we'll be looking at if I'm honest, like just because of those dudes, like shoulder and pinching issues are a real thing, so we probably wouldn't look at bench, but we would look at 5k, 10k, you know, whether they eventually want to run a half marathon, a 70.3, probably for the younger age group that you stated them, but you know, even some of the older guys, we've got people join our programme who are late 40s and then want to do a 70.3, we're obviously realistic with what that looks like and the duration it takes to get there, but we led by Dexter's Gams, View to Max, comprehensive blood work, strength diagnostics, so we can build a plan to say, this is your starting point, this is your baseline, this is where we need to get to achieve that goal, so it really depends on the individual who presents to us, it's not a cookie cutter, it's okay, let's get really clear here, with not just what you want to achieve, outcome or insulated, what does this mean to you intrinsically? Why do you want to link your goal to your life and how you want to be perceived, how you want your kids to see their father, like that's how powerful it is? Yeah, I think without attaching that meaning to it first, people then lose the motivation. Yeah, when they hit the hump in the road, right? Now that covers that perfectly, I think the idea is for listeners is to appreciate that high performance doesn't necessarily have to have a shelf life, just because you're not there now doesn't mean we can't look for it, and I think that ties back to the, I suppose the goal of the podcast of this without limits, for me I want to know what can I achieve and what can I do to be growth-minded and continue my 40s and my 50s and my 60s, and I hope listeners that say maybe they look at this, whether it's a career change, whether it's a physical change, whether it's just a mindset shift, it's appreciation, we're appreciating the way you are now doesn't necessarily have to mean that the goals ahead of you can't be achieved. And you can change at any time, we've got a dude in our program, ex-id his business for 155 million, I won't mention it, but I'm so proud, he's a tech guy, that's what his business was. He's now built a gym in his house, he signed up to his first half marathon, he's been on our program for a while, he's in Orlando now, he just did a run in Central Park, New York, he's just gone to Orlando, he messaged me, I said, Dan, I've just completed 10 to 12k without any knee pain, I feel amazing. Like that might not sound like a lot to people, that is huge from when he joined our program, because he was not that gym guy, and it's like again, it's got to be contextual to you, so anyone can achieve what they want to achieve, just chip away each day. We're very biased, right, let's sort of wrap this up, we're very biased because we work in the fitness space. It's very obvious, there's a lot of CEOs now that are unlocking new levels themselves through the medium of fitness being the thing, why do you think people should start with that? You mentioned those kind of four pillars of training, nutrition, sleep, and was it recovering? The fundamental was kind of a health and wellbeing. Do you think that's just where people should start, just audit where you currently are in terms of daily movement, where am I at? Nutrition, what am I doing, and just make those slot changes? Start where you stand, identify where you're feet are now, not where I was four or five years ago, and I'm trying to get the wheels going again, just start where you stand, and do a bit of a 360, a bit of a review. Okay, how many steps do I do? What are my non-negotiables? But it all starts with what do I place value on? What is my goal? And you don't have to get super clear, and that might contradict what I said earlier, you haven't got to say right, I'm starting this journey, I'm going to be running a half marathon right away. No, just start small, set some daily non-negotiables, focus on those four pillars, am I training three times a week? Am I sleeping adequately, obviously the number one recovery tool is sleep, it costs absolutely nothing, whether you want to use data and stuff, then it does cost something. Nutrition, am I getting two grams per kilo bodyweight of protein per day, completely going against the World Health Organization of 0.8 grams per kilo bodyweight? Which we know is ludicrously low, understanding macronutions, understanding carbohydrates, understanding energy balance, simple things that can be done with a basic app like my fitness pal, if you want to track for a week, which I recommend. And then mindset, am I listening to podcasts, am I reading books, am I assessing my environment, that that's where you start, and then you break inertia, and then you can, you know, six months down the line, do you know what, I'm going to do this half marathon, I feel great. So I think it's good, you've got to be realistic, I'm all for setting lofty goals, start where you stand, identify where your feet are, and just break inertia initially, and then you can go big with the goals later down the line. Now, I said at the top, this was going to be a complete download and high performance, and there was no one more qualified to talk about it. I think over the last 90 minutes, whether it's being like the book references, you know, the research paper references, like you are so ingrained in this life, and it's been an absolute pleasure to become your friend over the years, to follow your journey and to take inspiration from it. That was powerful, mate. That's been one of my favourite conversations, so thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks, Ollie, and I've got to say thank you, thank you for what you've done to the fitness and wellness space. I don't know if anyone's actually said that. You lead from the front, you showcase, not just training, how to run a business, how to be a great dad. So honestly, I'll say this from fitness, thank you, bud. Oh, thank you, mate. I mean that.